Hoping Gay is moved to Safety!

[StillCurtains]

I think I could speak for most of us that the draft could have turned out better than we liked. With that being said, we have what we have.

Our true secondary rotation is:

Corners:
Burns
Cockrell
Gay
Sutton
Golson
Sensabaugh
With Allen and Shabazz fighting for the last spot.
Gay will be a wildcard with the verdict also being on Golson's progress.

Safety:
Mitchell
Davis
Golden
Dangerfield

At Corner, Burns is a lock at starter unless he falls off the Earth.
Cockrell is the other projected starter. What I'm hoping is that Sutton can beat out Cockrell before midseason to man the other boundary spot. Cockrell is only an inch and 2 pounds bigger than Sutton.
Sutton can play press man, is a better cover corner, and has better ball skills than Cockrell. He can play slot as well and only needs to work on run support.

I'm also having hope that Golson can rebound from injury and be what he is projected to be to man the slot. His college tape shows good speed and ballhawk ability. If he works out, hopefully Sensabaugh can be his backup.

Allen has the size, speed and atheletic ability to succeed if he is developed. His odds are long to make the 53 being so raw. I'm hoping he can show enough to beat out Shabazz and make the 53. He can be a nickel specialist for guys like Gronk until he truly develops. I hope he cracks the 53 to later develop into an eventual starter next to Burns. If he goes to the practice squad he will be snatched up.

At FS Mitchell will start. He is what he is. Not terrible but can be undisciplined at times. Example is biting on the Flee Flicker in the AFCCG.
Davis of course will start at SS and I feel will have a big year.
The depth gets kind of troubling. Golden and Dangerfield are only seviceable and would be eaten alive against top caliber QB's if forced to start.

This is where Gay comes in. It's noticeable that he has lost a step at corner. It happens with age. I do feel that he could step in and do a better job than Mitchell, but the coaches wouldn't do that. I would however like them to try him in the #1 backup role at Safety.

I feel that he has the body for it. He's physical enough and is one of the best tacklers on the team. Gay is very intelligent which is an asset to the team. I also feel that he would be able to cover his zones well at the position and his exceptional ball skills would be an asset.

With what we have, I feel this would be the best possible way for our secondary to have success this year.

[RunNGun]

Gay isn't physical enough to be a safety. He's a great tackler, but he's not going to provide much run support, which is why he will never be moved there.

[Hawkman]

Shabazz is gone.

[tube517]

Shabazz is gone.

ShaBye!

He's been on and off the roster so many times.

[Rotorhead]

I think Gay is physical enough and as stated above he is a very good tackler. He doesnt need to fly around (ala Mitchell) trying to hit people. Hell, if Mitchell would just wrap up and tackle (and not jump around like he just won the superbowl each time) he would be much better. I think Gay would be a very good safety and possibly an upgrade.

[DesertSteel]

I think I could speak for most of us that the draft could have turned out better than we liked.
I was happy with the draft.

As for Gay, he's done at corner.

[Mojouw]

Wouldn't Gay have to gain 20 pounds and grow a few inches? Under 6 foot tall and 180-190 for a safety? Seems like Bob Sanders territory.


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[RunNGun]

I was happy with the draft.

As for Gay, he's done at corner.

Gay's not done at corner. He will be our starter until at least week 8.

- - - Updated - - -


Wouldn't Gay have to gain 20 pounds and grow a few inches? Under 6 foot tall and 180-190 for a safety? Seems like Bob Sanders territory.


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Exactly, except Bob Sanders had a hit you in the mouth mentality. Gay is a grest fundamental tackler, but asking him to come downhill on RBs is a recipe for disaster.

[tube517]

Gay's not done at corner. He will be our starter until at least week 8.


Where? He was pushed to the slot last year. Burns and Cockring are the starting outside CBs now.

Gay will be more depth this year unless Golson falls off a cliff and Sutton gets hit in the head by a model plane made by his old roommate Dobbs.

- - - Updated - - -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmrAyU3HcU0

[RunNGun]

Gay is a different player than he was when he got trucked by AD. How often does a rookie player come in and start for the Steelers? 1st round picks...every now and then. 3rd round picks? Next to never. Gay will be the slot guy until Sutton proves he can take it, which will be no sooner than week 5.
I would have loved to see what Sutton would have done against AD in that situation.

- - - Updated - - -

Or any CB in the league for that matter...AD is a freight train

[Born2Steel]

I think I could speak for most of us that the draft could have turned out better than we liked. With that being said, we have what we have.

Our true secondary rotation is:

Corners:
Burns
Cockrell
Gay
Sutton
Golson
Sensabaugh
With Allen and Shabazz fighting for the last spot.
Gay will be a wildcard with the verdict also being on Golson's progress.

Safety:
Mitchell
Davis
Golden
Dangerfield

At Corner, Burns is a lock at starter unless he falls off the Earth.
Cockrell is the other projected starter. What I'm hoping is that Sutton can beat out Cockrell before midseason to man the other boundary spot. Cockrell is only an inch and 2 pounds bigger than Sutton.
Sutton can play press man, is a better cover corner, and has better ball skills than Cockrell. He can play slot as well and only needs to work on run support.

I'm also having hope that Golson can rebound from injury and be what he is projected to be to man the slot. His college tape shows good speed and ballhawk ability. If he works out, hopefully Sensabaugh can be his backup.

Allen has the size, speed and atheletic ability to succeed if he is developed. His odds are long to make the 53 being so raw. I'm hoping he can show enough to beat out Shabazz and make the 53. He can be a nickel specialist for guys like Gronk until he truly develops. I hope he cracks the 53 to later develop into an eventual starter next to Burns. If he goes to the practice squad he will be snatched up.

At FS Mitchell will start. He is what he is. Not terrible but can be undisciplined at times. Example is biting on the Flee Flicker in the AFCCG.
Davis of course will start at SS and I feel will have a big year.
The depth gets kind of troubling. Golden and Dangerfield are only seviceable and would be eaten alive against top caliber QB's if forced to start.

This is where Gay comes in. It's noticeable that he has lost a step at corner. It happens with age. I do feel that he could step in and do a better job than Mitchell, but the coaches wouldn't do that. I would however like them to try him in the #1 backup role at Safety.

I feel that he has the body for it. He's physical enough and is one of the best tacklers on the team. Gay is very intelligent which is an asset to the team. I also feel that he would be able to cover his zones well at the position and his exceptional ball skills would be an asset.

With what we have, I feel this would be the best possible way for our secondary to have success this year.

I'm thinking Gay and Golson are competing for that 6th CB spot. Outside rotation with Burns, Cockrell, and Allen. Slot rotation with Sensabaugh, Sutton, and Gay/Golson. Which, IMO, means slot CB is still a question mark. I think the safeties are safe just based on numbers. Not enough bodies to cut anyone.

[DesertSteel]

Gay's not done at corner. He will be our starter until at least week 8.

I'm going with Golson.

[86WARD]

When you put all the CBs into a list like that you see how bad it really is...lol. They need some sort of veteran in there with a little talent to bolster that group.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I'm going with Golson.

that is if Golson can ever make it out of training camp healthy, and that is a big IF...

[st33lersguy]

Has Gay even played safety ever? This thread does illustrate the mistake it was to not grab a safety in the draft

[hawaiiansteeler]

Corners:

Burns
Cockrell
Gay
Golson
Sutton
Allen

Safeties:

Mitchell
Davis
Golden
Dangerfield

[BlackAndGold]

Corners:

Burns
Cockrell
Gay
Golson
Sutton
Allen

Safeties:

Mitchell
Davis
Golden
Dangerfield

I see no reason why that can't be the depth at those positions. They've been keeping 10 DB's for the past few years.

[DesertSteel]

that is if Golson can ever make it out of training camp healthy, and that is a big IF...
I'm being optimistic ��

[BlackAndGold]

that is if Golson can ever make it out of training camp healthy, and that is a big IF...

Wouldn't that be great if he could stay healthy, and played like the player they drafted...

Not going to get my hopes up. Two years away from football is a lot of time. Sean Spence played well after missing time, lets hope the same thing happens with Golson.

[Born2Steel]

Corners:

Burns
Cockrell
Gay
Golson
Sutton
Allen

Safeties:

Mitchell
Davis
Golden
Dangerfield

You're cutting Coty already? He just got here. :cry02:

[Rotorhead]

He hasn't ever played safety, but he has been here long enough that he should know all the positions back there. And I would rather him actually tackling people back there than Mitchell flying through the air bouncing off people or completely whiffing on tackles trying to land the big hit that won't bring bigger players down.

[Mojouw]

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/nfl-smallest-player-every-position-101916

I think he would be the smallest or next to smallest safety in the league.

[RunNGun]

I have a hard time seeing Gay get cut, but it could happen I guess. Any salary experts out there? The way I read his contract, it wouldn't cost anything to cut him this year even though he is still under contract. I don't think they will cut him, but if it doesn't cost them any money then it's possible.

Gay is not a safety.

[RunNGun]

I'm going with Golson.

I would love for that to happen. If Golson outplays Gay in camp, then maybe they cut Gay. I think Sensabaugh is a lock unless he gets hurt, just by looking at his contract.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I think Sensabaugh is a lock unless he gets hurt, just by looking at his contract.

the Rams cut Sensabaugh after signing him to a 3 year contract last season, and the NY Giants ending up waiving him after that.

I'm not sure he is such a lock to make our team, although I would love for him to prove me wrong...

[RunNGun]

the Rams cut Sensabaugh after signing him to a 3 year contract last season, and the NY Giants ending up waiving him after that.

I'm not sure he is such a lock to make our team, although I would love for him to prove me wrong...

I did not realize that was the case with Coty. You're right, he is definitely no lock. It will be very interesting.

[steelreserve]

Losing a step at corner does not mean you are going to be a good safety. I suppose it could be worth a try if he's really that useless even as a #3 CB. But if he's really that useless in coverage, it's just as easy to imagine him not making the roster at all. That would suck, he's been a decent player for us for a number of years, but getting older is a bitch in this game.

[43Hitman]

Losing a step at corner does not mean you are going to be a good safety. I suppose it could be worth a try if he's really that useless even as a #3 CB. But if he's really that useless in coverage, it's just as easy to imagine him not making the roster at all. That would suck, he's been a decent player for us for a number of years, but getting older is a bitch in this game.I remember when everyone hated Gay. He has been a very solid player for us, I hope we can get at least another year of service out of him. His leadership will be valuable to our younger cb's.

[Born2Steel]

I was listening to Monday's 'Terrible Podcast' this morning and they brought up this very topic. One seems to think Gay is safe for 1 more season, the other thinks Gay will be cut this time. Interesting conversation if you haven't heard it yet.

[steelreserve]

I remember when everyone hated Gay. He has been a very solid player for us, I hope we can get at least another year of service out of him. His leadership will be valuable to our younger cb's.

Everyone hated Gay around 2009-11, when he was the young up-and-coming guy who we were counting on to step into a starting role, and made some roster decisions based around that, and then he couldn't handle the job. THAT was ugly.

The second time around was a lot better. Partly because he probably improved and learned some veteran tricks, and partly because I think we were smarter about how we used him - understanding that he was a serviceable CB, not an All-Pro, and putting him in places where he could succeed instead of just throwing him out there to take on all comers. Also that "serviceable" among the group of DBs we had for the past few years made him one of our best players.

[Count Steeler]

"Servicable" is not where we need our DBs to be in the new NFL. Our starters need to be Pro Bowlers or a step below, not pine riders or a step above.

[steelreserve]

"Servicable" is not where we need our DBs to be in the new NFL. Our starters need to be Pro Bowlers or a step below, not pine riders or a step above.

No, it isn't where we need to be. "Serviceable" just looks better by comparison when the rest is a 100% dumpster fire. Hopefully we are moving past that ugly slice of history. Ideally your serviceable guys are third corners or backups, but I don't know if Gay is even that anymore. I'm glad we've been addressing the position in the draft the past few years, finally.

[Craic]

"Servicable" is not where we need our DBs to be in the new NFL. Our starters need to be Pro Bowlers or a step below, not pine riders or a step above.

I completely agree with the first half of your statement, but disagree with the second half. I'd take three pretty good man-to-man CBs that are two steps away from Pro Bowler level than two probowl level CBs and a bigger drop from there. Moreover, the NFL is about to shift back to a stronger run-oriented offense. For the last few years, everyone's drafted smaller, faster LBs to help cover the pass. Now, with Bell and Elliot showing the way, teams are finding it easier to run than to pass in many cases. I also think the draft shows it, with two top 10 RB picks in round one, two RBs in round two, four RBs picked in round four, and thirty RBs picked overall. (a few teams even picked up two RBs).

All of that to say, you're right, we absolutely needed to upgrade, but I think it is more important to upgrade to three solid DBs who can also defend against the run than to two probowl CBs and one or two that can't do much against the run. (and I'm assuming probowl = decent against the run, Deon Sanders not withstanding).

[86WARD]

No, it isn't where we need to be. "Serviceable" just looks better by comparison when the rest is a 100% dumpster fire. Hopefully we are moving past that ugly slice of history. Ideally your serviceable guys are third corners or backups, but I don't know if Gay is even that anymore. I'm glad we've been addressing the position in the draft the past few years, finally.

Thing is...now in this NFL there's kinda no such thing as a third corner. To have a successful defense you need three starting corners. Basically three number ones and then a couple twos to round out the roster for depth. If you are getting into "third" corners (based on defense from several years ago), you're set up to fail. You have to have three quality starting corners to survive the Patriots, Steelers of the world. High powered offenses will tear third corners apart.

[Born2Steel]

I completely agree with the first half of your statement, but disagree with the second half. I'd take three pretty good man-to-man CBs that are two steps away from Pro Bowler level than two probowl level CBs and a bigger drop from there. Moreover, the NFL is about to shift back to a stronger run-oriented offense. For the last few years, everyone's drafted smaller, faster LBs to help cover the pass. Now, with Bell and Elliot showing the way, teams are finding it easier to run than to pass in many cases. I also think the draft shows it, with two top 10 RB picks in round one, two RBs in round two, four RBs picked in round four, and thirty RBs picked overall. (a few teams even picked up two RBs).

All of that to say, you're right, we absolutely needed to upgrade, but I think it is more important to upgrade to three solid DBs who can also defend against the run than to two probowl CBs and one or two that can't do much against the run. (and I'm assuming probowl = decent against the run, Deon Sanders not withstanding).

Your statements fit right in with the sentiment all around 'Saints country' here. Everybody is talking about AP, Ingram, and Kamara bringing back the ground and pound of the McAllister era. Brees will still throw 30 passes a game I would bet. They just can't help themselves. Especially when the defense can't stop a bowling ball, let alone the Falcons. Bigger corners, bigger safeties, stop the run first and make offenses one dimensional. Same game as it's always been.

[steelreserve]

Thing is...now in this NFL there's kinda no such thing as a third corner. To have a successful defense you need three starting corners. Basically three number ones and then a couple twos to round out the roster for depth. If you are getting into "third" corners (based on defense from several years ago), you're set up to fail. You have to have three quality starting corners to survive the Patriots, Steelers of the world. High powered offenses will tear third corners apart.

You need three quality CBs, definitely better than you used to be able to get by with. They don't need to all be the same kind of CB - I mean, the offense has different roles for their receivers too.

Gay was probably good enough (before last year) to be one of those three guys, but only if we had other players to cover the other roles, which we didn't. Kind of the Ramon Foster of the defensive backfield. Good enough as part of a competent unit, but if he's the best you've got, you're in trouble.

At any rate, hopefully we're on the road toward having exactly what we need, which is three or more corners who can stand out in a variety of roles.

[RunNGun]

Your statements fit right in with the sentiment all around 'Saints country' here. Everybody is talking about AP, Ingram, and Kamara bringing back the ground and pound of the McAllister era. Brees will still throw 30 passes a game I would bet. They just can't help themselves. Especially when the defense can't stop a bowling ball, let alone the Falcons. Bigger corners, bigger safeties, stop the run first and make offenses one dimensional. Same game as it's always been.

Agreed. It's a passing league, but if you want to make a deep run in the playoffs you have to stop the run and run the football. It may be an old school way of thinking, but it's a recipe for winning football games.