Mean Joe - Showboating Held Steelers Back

[AtlantaDan]

It appears Joe Greene is not a fan of postgame Facebook streaming or end zone celebration penalties :coffee:

“We got guys who like to showboat. It’s definitely the one [Brown], but it’s more than one. And they owe themselves better than that. You only have so long to play this game, it’s not always going to be there, you know. You have to max out.

“This year was a year lost. I can only imagine what would have happened to this team had our receiver who was suspended for a year [Martavis Bryant] been playing on the field. I can only imagine what would have happened had all of our weapons been there.”

He blamed some of it on selfishness, of “building your brand” rather than putting the team first. He said the Steelers need more Rocky Bleier-types....

He believes a different kind of frustration drove Roethlisberger to suggest he might retire two days after the Steelers lost the AFC championship game to the Patriots. It came one week after Brown’s infamous Facebook Live video from the locker room, an act Greene detested, and it came after receivers dropped a handful of passes in the AFC title game loss in New England.

Roethlisberger’s reaction “had to be something with his disappointment with those activities,’’ Greene said. “Those actions were not conducive to the winning framework, the winning attitude.”

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/2017/04/09/Mean-Joe-Greene-book-Pittsburgh-Steelers-Antonio-Brown/stories/201704090077?pgpageversion=pgevoke

[Mojouw]

Can you all hear me roll my eyes over the internet?

This is another in an annual cycle of respected old guy complains about how the new dudes do football things.

Bryant getting suspended was a fully blameable move. The rest is young guys doing stupid things. Like no one in the '70s did stupid stuff when they were 20-something?

[polamalubeast]

The gameplan on defense in New England was one of the big reason of our blowout loss.

[fansince'76]

This is another in an annual cycle of respected old guy complains about how the new dudes do football things.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbU4Cb4A4-o

:chuckle:

[AtlantaDan]

Can you all hear me roll my eyes over the internet?

This is another in an annual cycle of respected old guy complains about how the new dudes do football things.

Bryant getting suspended was a fully blameable move. The rest is young guys doing stupid things. Like no one in the '70s did stupid stuff when they were 20-something?

I do not recall Chuck Noll having to address some brain dead conduct by a Steeler in the week before one of the six AFC championship game appearances by the 70s Steelers while observing that it would be too bad if that individual became one of those players who bounced from team to team because of his attitude

Brown took it to the next level this past season with Tomlin having to tell him to lose the special shoes when a ref told Brown it would bar him from playing, the repeated celebration penalties, and the Facebook streaming

Since another "respected old guy" who told Brown to cut the crap was Heath Miller while he was still playing in 2015, Mean Joe's comments about Brown are more than another grumpy old man who remembers the days when he had to walk 20 miles through the snow and uphill both ways to get to and from the game.

Since he now has the big contract I look for AB to tone it down this coming season

[Dwinsgames]

we where always taught to act like you been there before not like its your first time ... call me old school but I got to agree with Mean Joe , Heath and anyone else that conducts or has conducted themselves more like Barry Sanders and less like Terrell Owens

[fansince'76]

In his rookie season of 1969, when the Steelers joined the Bears in sinking to 1-13, Greene was ejected from two games.

And that was long before the current "pussyball" era, so you know what he did was over the top.

And later on:


In a 1977 AFC playoff, he (Greene) dropped Denver guard Paul Howard with a vicious uppercut to the stomach. The foul wasn't called, but 50 million television viewers saw it.

I can only imagine what the outcry would be like if something like that went down now in the "Twitter Age" with the 24x7 sports/news cycle being what it is and it most assuredly WOULD get called...

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1987-08-05/sports/8702270158_1_joe-greene-all-time-stars-defensive
(http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1987-08-05/sports/8702270158_1_joe-greene-all-time-stars-defensive)

Sometimes Mean Joe can be downright brusque. Like the time he punched out Denver Bronco guard Paul Howard in a National Football League playoff game two years ago. NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle fined him $5,000 for that minor gaucherie, presumably because the commissioner was still a little touchy over Joe’s threat, made earlier in the season, to knock down some officials and “cleat ’em in the spine.”

http://people.com/archive/super-bowl-sunday-mean-joe-may-be-greene-but-his-opponents-are-likely-to-be-black-and-blue-vol-13-no-3/

I'm sure Goodell would have a field day with someone like Harrison issuing a threat to "cleat 'em in the spine" toward any ref that "gets in his way" on the field...

Although he's my all-time favorite player personally, if Greene played today, I think it's safe to say he'd be ranked with Suh as one of the dirtiest players in the league.

:noidea:

And I'm sorry, but I can only muster up so much outrage over Brown's end zone antics when I repeatedly see footage of other WRs around the league doing the EXACT SAME THINGS without any penalty whatsoever (OBJ, stand up and take a bow). What does piss me off are Goodell's obvious double standards because he's still butthurt over the Steelers' players voting against his little CBA back in 2011.

[lipps83]

Hey!

Look at me.

I am going to shame someone in an attempt to control their behavior into one I feel is more acceptable.

Yay me!

[BlackAndGold]

Get off my lawn!!! *shakes fist*

[teegre]

Like it or not, Millenials are simply different (than Baby Boomers and/or than Gen X). Worse?... maybe, maybe not. Different?... absolutely.

As I said in January:
http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/get-off-of-my-lawn-antonio-brown/

[fansince'76]

Get off my lawn!!! *shakes fist*

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/a2/a250e5b7cca9b93f50b8e8b371b9f688ebb521336fed1402df 7b56e17fc4b1b3.jpg

:chuckle:

[lipps83]

Good post because it is true.

The younger generation is different. I think when Ochocinco and TO were doing their celebrations, the older crowd wasn't interested in it and felt it took away from the spirit of the game (game being the most important word). So, excessive celebrations were thereafter penalized.

Now they are seeing a good majority of people did enjoy them and are thinking about removing/reducing the penalty. I loved them. To me, it brought a human side to the sport. Individuals were being individuals, not robots. This isn't the military that strips away your identity, and it should not treat its players as such and that should NOT be the expectation of FANS.

I want to see a players joy, a players frustration. Their creativity and how they express it.

This is a game. To have fun.

FUN.

[Mojouw]

Not trying to start a debate or to be disrespectful, but why? Why is it important to act like you've been there before? One hears that all the time and no one ever explains why. I can see at early levels of youth sports in order to ensure that kids learn sportsmanship and respect for one another - but after that gets all sorted out -- why?

I figure someone is going to say something about role models and that. But if your kids biggest role models are people they only know from TV - then you have much bigger problems than the conduct of NFL players.

Again, I may be way off.

As to the whole, Chuck Noll never had to address dumbassery prior to an AFCCG. Well, I don't know about Noll and the '70's roster - but I have heard other things. My favorite is that Mickey Mantle routinely got hammered on the road with anyone who would drink with him - including reporters. He also is reputed to have quite a like for the occasional professional lady. Max McGee was still drunk when he won a SB off the bench. I suspect that Namath was super well behaved at all times. This same stuff went on, we - the fans - just never heard about it because teams, players, and the beat reporters kept it "in the family". Now all this stuff just comes out because of technology. Lawrence Taylor was on all of the cocaine and routinely sent hookers to the opposing teams hotel. Read up about the antics of the '80s Mets and Royals (I think it was KC) but apparently enough liquor and drugs were involved to make Keith Richards weak in the knees.

[Dwinsgames]

Not trying to start a debate or to be disrespectful, but why? Why is it important to act like you've been there before? One hears that all the time and no one ever explains why. I can see at early levels of youth sports in order to ensure that kids learn sportsmanship and respect for one another - but after that gets all sorted out -- why?

I figure someone is going to say something about role models and that. But if your kids biggest role models are people they only know from TV - then you have much bigger problems than the conduct of NFL players.

Again, I may be way off.

As to the whole, Chuck Noll never had to address dumbassery prior to an AFCCG. Well, I don't know about Noll and the '70's roster - but I have heard other things. My favorite is that Mickey Mantle routinely got hammered on the road with anyone who would drink with him - including reporters. He also is reputed to have quite a like for the occasional professional lady. Max McGee was still drunk when he won a SB off the bench. I suspect that Namath was super well behaved at all times. This same stuff went on, we - the fans - just never heard about it because teams, players, and the beat reporters kept it "in the family". Now all this stuff just comes out because of technology. Lawrence Taylor was on all of the cocaine and routinely sent hookers to the opposing teams hotel. Read up about the antics of the '80s Mets and Royals (I think it was KC) but apparently enough liquor and drugs were involved to make Keith Richards weak in the knees.

what changes ? should you still not have respect for one another ... ( not picking at you but I must wonder )

no role model excuse here , if a parent is relying on an athlete the child will likely never meet to be a role model then they suck at parenting ...


besides its the NFL No Fun League its now a Business not a game

[Mojouw]

what changes ? should you still not have respect for one another ... ( not picking at you but I must wonder )

no role model excuse here , if a parent is relying on an athlete the child will likely never meet to be a role model then they suck at parenting ...


besides its the NFL No Fun League its now a Business not a game

I can see all that. I get the respect thing - it is a fine line to walk for all involved. I just think that you can kinda have both - or at least some guys can.

AB does all his celebrating and what not, but he is the first in the handshake line after games, trades jerseys and works with other guys in the off-season. In general around the league, you can see these guys celebrate (often excessively) and then when something bad happens there is a joint prayer or what not.

But you're right it is a business and sells better if the players act a certain way that is modulated to offend absolutely no one.

[lipps83]

Not trying to start a debate or to be disrespectful, but why? Why is it important to act like you've been there before? One hears that all the time and no one ever explains why. I can see at early levels of youth sports in order to ensure that kids learn sportsmanship and respect for one another - but after that gets all sorted out -- why?

Because that is what Barry Sanders did and he is the closest thing the NFL has had to having Jesus himself on the field.

Just my guess. I don't get it either.

How can someone hate this? This is genius right here. Nobody was hurt (except for maybe some old dudes feelings, but that isn't CJ's fault).

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6wrAFDDCDxxltQty/giphy.gif

[Mojouw]

Because that is what Barry Sanders did and he is the closest thing the NFL has had to having Jesus himself on the field.

Just my guess. I don't get it either.

How can someone hate this? This is genius right here. Nobody was hurt (except for maybe some old dudes feelings, but that isn't CJ's fault).

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6wrAFDDCDxxltQty/giphy.gif

I love it. Billy White Shoes Johnson did a dance and no one died. Ickey Shuffled. The fun bunch high fived.

But I guess it might tick off like one person somewhere who might tell someone else and the NFL might make 85 less cents.

[Born2Steel]

Ever wonder why he was called "Mean Joe"? Stuff he did ON THE FIELD. Off the field he traded his jersey for Cokes, to kids.

[tube517]

More offseason yawn articles.

Love Mean Joe but he's just grumbling about stuff. He is Mr. Steeler so it's no surprise he's going to feel that way about AB's goofy shenanigans.

Not everybody can be Rocky Bleier (except maybe AV).


The draft needs to get here soon...

[Count Steeler]

Wonder if this is the Rooneys calling in a favor from Mean Joe? Try to get AB reigned in a bit. Unfortunately, he is not afforded the same blind eye from the officials as Mr Sherman is when he mugs a receiver. If you are the "poster child" for the refs, you have to reign it in or you start costing your team.

If there is a speed trap down the road and I know it, and I speed up, well, I'm dumber than a bag of rocks or I have money to burn. If you know the officials have you on their hit list, and you still behave in a manner that will cost your team, well...

[Dwinsgames]

Wonder if this is the Rooneys calling in a favor from Mean Joe? Try to get AB reigned in a bit. Unfortunately, he is not afforded the same blind eye from the officials as Mr Sherman is when he mugs a receiver. If you are the "poster child" for the refs, you have to reign it in or you start costing your team.

If there is a speed trap down the road and I know it, and I speed up, well, I'm dumber than a bag of rocks or I have money to burn. If you know the officials have you on their hit list, and you still behave in a manner that will cost your team, well...

it is then " money to burn " but others will say and are not wrong " selfish me attitude" ...

its hard to argue with ...

it does cost his wallet but it also cost field position and in todays pass happy league 15 yards is a lot of ground to concede time and time again ...

but most will not agree with me and I am fine with that but when it bites us in the ass and costs us a game ( not if but when ) and the opposition needs a FG to win and with 5 seconds left in the game they are booting a 49 yarder for the win instead of being 4th and 7 from nearly midfield and forced to hit the hail mary to win ..... I bet folks bitch and complain then but I digress )

[Count Steeler]

Football is a team sport. You should always conduct yourself in a manner to enhance the success of the team.

Do I agree with the NFL and it's current state of affairs? Doesn't matter. The time for change is in 2021.

[StillCurtains]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbU4Cb4A4-o

:chuckle:




Greene did have his erratic moments of throwing helmets and hurting players on the field and such in his early years. What most of you don't get here is that it was by design by Noll. The Steelers were a doormat. Noll wanted to change the culture of the organization and what better way to do it by using his first ever pick on a mean nasty guy who hates losing.

Greene set the standard that they will no longer be a pushover. He set a standard that 1-15 seasons are no longer Ok. Noll let his actions go for several years before he felt it was the right time to temper him down some. Before doing so though, Noll wanted the foundation set by Greene first that the attitude of this organization has changed.

He then later let Greene know that he wanted him to be the standard and example for the team and he would have to temper down and Greene abliged. What I feel Greene is saying here is that the over the top celebrations by AB that have drawn fines have hurt the team in field position. Has AB shown remorse in this by telling the media it's nothing to a boss?

Greene said you're a Steeler first. AB paying no attention to what Tomlin was saying postgame while livestreaming in the locker room said AB first. How do you think Noll would have handled that fiasco. Joe has a point here. We have players that celebrate on almost every play. When that is the case it is no longer celebrating but showboating as Joe says.

I don't feel that he is saying for them not to celebrate. I feel that he is saying to focus on playng and winning the game and do away with the every play showboating. If they were more focused on the task at hand as opposed to individual standout antics, maybe they wouldn't lose to bottom feeder teams as they have which Joe's teams didn't do.

This isn't an old guy that doesn't know what he is talking about. He is Mr. Steeler for a reason. He is the one that comes to mind when you think of this franchise. Noll's first draft pick who just so happened to change the culture of the franchise.

Greene is the only man that was part of this organization that has had a hand in ALL 6 LOMBARDI TROPHIES! No one else that has been part of this organization past or present can say that. So when Joe wants to talk about what a Pittsburgh Steeler is, I think he knows more than anyone past or present.

Joe Greene Lombardi contributions: 6
All other Steeler Lombardi contributions: Lower than 6
Case closed.

[Steeldude]

Ah, the millennials...the future lazy-asses and pussies of America.

In 20 years tackling could be against the rules in football.

- - - Updated - - -


I love it. Billy White Shoes Johnson did a dance and no one died. Ickey Shuffled. The fun bunch high fived.

But I guess it might tick off like one person somewhere who might tell someone else and the NFL might make 85 less cents.

The point is where do these celebrations stop. If they don't hinder it now it will snowball later.

[fansince'76]

Greene did have his erratic moments of throwing helmets and hurting players on the field and such in his early years. What most of you don't get here is that it was by design by Noll. The Steelers were a doormat. Noll wanted to change the culture of the organization and what better way to do it by using his first ever pick on a mean nasty guy who hates losing.

Greene set the standard that they will no longer be a pushover. He set a standard that 1-15 seasons are no longer Ok. Noll let his actions go for several years before he felt it was the right time to temper him down some. Before doing so though, Noll wanted the foundation set by Greene first that the attitude of this organization has changed.

Still doesn't change the fact that nowadays many people would go absolutely apeshit over some of the stuff Greene (and Lambert and a number of others) pulled back in the day that nobody at the time really even raised an eyebrow at.


He then later let Greene know that he wanted him to be the standard and example for the team and he would have to temper down and Greene abliged. What I feel Greene is saying here is that the over the top celebrations by AB that have drawn fines have hurt the team in field position. Has AB shown remorse in this by telling the media it's nothing to a boss?

Once again...


In a 1977 AFC playoff, he (Greene) dropped Denver guard Paul Howard with a vicious uppercut to the stomach. The foul wasn't called, but 50 million television viewers saw it.


Sometimes Mean Joe can be downright brusque. Like the time he punched out Denver Bronco guard Paul Howard in a National Football League playoff game two years ago. NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle fined him $5,000 for that minor gaucherie, presumably because the commissioner was still a little touchy over Joe’s threat, made earlier in the season, to knock down some officials and “cleat ’em in the spine.”

That was in his NINTH year, so you can't really chalk it up to Noll egging the behavior on to "create an identity" for the team at that point. Not only that, but the talking heads would be squawking about it endlessly for WEEKS afterward if that happened in a PLAYOFF GAME now. That sort of thing simply did not get the exposure then that it would now because there was no Internet or Twitter nor was there a 24x7 news/sports cycle, or 300+ cable TV channels.


We have players that celebrate on almost every play. When that is the case it is no longer celebrating but showboating as Joe says.

Uh, that's the case with pretty much the WHOLE LEAGUE now. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen a non-Steelers player making an ass of himself by excessively celebrating after a routine play, I'd be retired by now.

Bottom line, it ain't the 1970s anymore. Do I like the celebrations? Absolutely not. But publicly pining for how things used to be done in the old days won't change it, nor does it help anything.

[teegre]

I read Jack Lambert's autobiography a few years back... he & Andy Russell used to sneak out of the hotel after curfew to go drinking. Sometimes they'd be hung over during games.

But, pffftt... it isn't like they were dancing in the end-zone or something.

[Born2Steel]

Jack Lambert makes a TOL and starts twerking and finishes with a dab. :rofl2:

[fansince'76]

I read Jack Lambert's autobiography a few years back... he & Andy Russell used to sneak out of the hotel after curfew to go drinking. Sometimes they'd be hung over during games.

But, pffftt... it isn't like they were dancing in the end-zone or something.

I wonder how this t-shirt would play in Goodell's NFL of 2017? Think it would result in a big fine and/or stir up a hornets' nest in the sports media? I do...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/01/98/eb/0198eb3df690c6b1f4ceda1ed991f887.jpg

[teegre]

I wonder how this t-shirt would play in Goodell's NFL of 2017? Think it would result in a big fine and/or stir up a hornets' nest in the sports media? I do...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/01/98/eb/0198eb3df690c6b1f4ceda1ed991f887.jpg


If a Steeler was wearing it: :director: suspension!!!

If Gronk is wearing it: "Hey, that guy is fun!!!"

If ODB is wearing it: "Hey, that guy is annoying... but... I'm not going to be the one to tell him to take it off!!!"

[StillCurtains]

Still doesn't change the fact that nowadays many people would go absolutely apeshit over some of the stuff Greene (and Lambert and a number of others) pulled back in the day that nobody at the time really even raised an eyebrow about.



Once again...





That was in his NINTH year, so you can't really chalk it up to Noll egging the behavior on to "create an identity" for the team at that point. Not only that, but the talking heads would be squawking about it endlessly for WEEKS afterward if that happened in a PLAYOFF GAME now. That sort of thing simply did not get the exposure then that it would now because there was no Internet or Twitter nor was there a 24x7 news/sports cycle, or 300+ cable TV channels.



Uh, that's the case with pretty much the WHOLE LEAGUE now. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen a non-Steelers player making an ass of himself by excessively celebrating after a routine play, I'd be retired by now.

Bottom line, it ain't the 1970s anymore.

So are we saying that what he says about being a Steeler holds no merit?
As I said.. He is the main guy that would know as the only man to contribute to all 6 Titles.
So are we going to knock the only guy to help us get all 6 and say he doesn't know what he's talking about?

Last I checked none of us have any of those contributions except cheering.
I'm confident Joe knows alot more than us!

Want to know what a Steeler is? Ask Joe!
Pittsburgh Steelers: 6 Lombardies
Mean Joe Greene: 6 Lombardies

In other words...The Steelers never have done anything without Joe!
Don't bite the hand that feeds you!

[teegre]

Jack Lambert makes a TOL and starts twerking and finishes with a dab. :rofl2:

/thread

[StillCurtains]

If a Steeler was wearing it: :director: suspension!!!

If Gronk is wearing it: "Hey, that guy is fun!!!"

If ODB is wearing it: "Hey, that guy is annoying... but... I'm not going to be the one to tell him to take it off!!!"

Yeah, this is like saying that the NFL allows to play with stickum today!
The NFL was much different then.

There were no rules in place then when it came to attire. A shirt as Lambert was wearing was not seen in TV! It was blurred out or they would interview from the neck up!

Yes there were things that the 70's Steelers would get away with as far as antics of personal fouls and such. The thing is that you could call a personal foul on almost every play back then. It's an evolving league! No head slap today as you could do then. You have the Mel Blount rule now!

Joe had some ejections and such in his day. His actions and even his teammates actions were more about protecting themselves and their teammates in acting against those who tried to intimidate them. An example is the Superbowl vs Dallas where Lambert threw down the Dallas player for trying to intimidate our kicker.

It sent a message to his teammates as well as to Dallas. You also were less likely to get flagged for those things back then. Different era where things of that nature were moreso allowed than today's rules. Yes, players sneak out and do things like drink as Lambert did.

The truth is.... Did Chuck Noll know? No... that's why he said SNUCK out! Did the players still know to go out and handle their business on the field? Yes.. If they didn't they would have to face Noll. Do you think any of Noll's players would do foolish things in his face? No! AB would not have played in the championship game for livestreaming if Noll was coach.

If you want to celebrate, it's a different era, cool! Do it within the rules to where your team is not penalized. Also having celebrations after almost every play is not celebrating but showboating. The difference is whatever discrepencies you had against the Steelers back then, they still had focused on the task at hand and won.

These Steelers however, don't have that razor sharp focus to handle their business. While they are showboating after almost every routine play, these Steelers lose in the process. It shows their lack of in game focus. A little less showboating just may get us our next title.

[steelcityboyz]

Yeah, this is like saying that the NFL allows to play with stickum today!
The NFL was much different then.

There were no rules in place then when it came to attire. A shirt as Lambert was wearing was not seen in TV! It was blurred out or they would interview from the neck up!

Yes there were things that the 70's Steelers would get away with as far as antics of personal fouls and such. The thing is that you could call a personal foul on almost every play back then. It's an evolving league! No head slap today as you could do then. You have the Mel Blount rule now!

Joe had some ejections and such in his day. His actions and even his teammates actions were more about protecting themselves and their teammates in acting against those who tried to intimidate them. An example is the Superbowl vs Dallas where Lambert threw down the Dallas player for trying to intimidate our kicker.

It sent a message to his teammates as well as to Dallas. You also were less likely to get flagged for those things back then. Different era where things of that nature were moreso allowed than today's rules. Yes, players sneak out and do things like drink as Lambert did.

The truth is.... Did Chuck Noll know? No... that's why he said SNUCK out! Did the players still know to go out and handle their business on the field? Yes.. If they didn't they would have to face Noll. Do you think any of Noll's players would do foolish things in his face? No! AB would not have played in the championship game for livestreaming if Noll was coach.

If you want to celebrate, it's a different era, cool! Do it within the rules to where your team is not penalized. Also having celebrations after almost every play is not celebrating but showboating. The difference is whatever discrepencies you had against the Steelers back then, they still had focused on the task at hand and won.

These Steelers however, don't have that razor sharp focus to handle their business. While they are showboating after almost every routine play, these Steelers lose in the process. It shows their lack of in game focus. A little less showboating just may get us our next title.Well said! :applaudit:

[teegre]

(words)


Hyperbole, hypocrisy, conjecture, exaggeration, and several exclamation points.


Chest thumping after every play... really?

Noll didn't know... how do you know?

Noll would have benched AB... how do you know?

It was okay to get ejected then, but not okay to get a penalty now... :huh:

[teegre]

And, as far as showing up in the playoffs...

Not counting AB's rookie season (when he was fifth string):

5 for 70 yards, 0 TDs, 0 penalties
9 for 117 yards, 0 TDs, 0 penalties
7 for 119 yards, 0 TDs, 0 penalties
5 for 124 yards, 2 TDs, 0 penalties
6 for 108 yards, 0 TDs, 0 penalties
7 for 77 yards, 0 TDs, 0 penalties

That sounds an awful lot like "razor sharp focus."

[Mojouw]

And, as far as showing up in the playoffs...

Not counting AB's rookie season (when he was fifth string):

5 for 70 yards, 0 TDs, 0 penalties
9 for 117 yards, 0 TDs, 0 penalties
7 for 119 yards, 0 TDs, 0 penalties
5 for 124 yards, 2 TDs, 0 penalties
6 for 108 yards, 0 TDs, 0 penalties
7 for 77 yards, 0 TDs, 0 penalties

That sounds an awful lot like "razor sharp focus."

I don't know. I see a lot of games with no TDs.

Clearly you are not aware of <INSERT RANDOM COMPARISON HERE> has <random chunk of stats> that is how you DEFINE FOCUS!

[StillCurtains]

Hyperbole, hypocrisy, conjecture, exaggeration, and several exclamation points.


Chest thumping after every play... really?

Noll didn't know... how do you know?

Noll would have benched AB... how do you know?

It was okay to get ejected then, but not okay to get a penalty now... :huh:

Teegre, this is nothing against you Bro!
I've read several of your posts that you have started and they actually are really good!

However... I feel when Joe Greene speaks about being a Pittsburgh Steeler all should listen.
I love AB and what he brings and we would be hard pressed to win without him, but there are many things he needs to learn about being a team player. This is one of the reasons that Ben continues to get frustrated with him.

The Steelers of today would not be where they are now if not for the sacrifices that were made to lay a foundation for them by those 70's teams. Did Joe have penalties and ejections and such by roughing up opposing players? Yes! However if you have heard him speak of his playing days in years past he had reason for it.

You had lineman doing things like cutting him down at the knees and such which is what many players complain about today. You even see plenty of footage of Joe making complaints to refs. Nothing was being called back then, so he took it upon himself and retaliated to bring those things to light.
That was sacrifice. If he had not done those things to bring things to the attention of the league, some of these rules to protect players would not be in place.

Joe had to start from the bottom playing for an organization that was terrible at the time. It makes it even harder when you don't have all these cushy rules like they do today where much more calls are being made on both sides of the ball. These Steelers are not starting from the bottom and the rules of today are much more in their favor. The foundation was laid for them.

Also how do I know Noll would have benched AB? Many members of those 70's teams have said how they feared and respected him. He played no games. Lambert said he SNUCK out to drink! If you have to SNEAK to do something, that meant someone didn't know!

Lambert's shirt stating basically that he is a bad SOB? You also might want to consider who is wearing the shirt. He showed what he was on the field. Not only by his play, but his attitude and drive to win which he backed up. It wasn't just by stats and showboating. His shirt more perfectly meant....
"I'm a bad SOB and I also mean business."

That is a shirt that perfectly describes Deebo and I wouldn't mind seeing him wear today! You know why? Because as I said, you need to consider who is wearing the shirt. Deebo wearing it wouldn't be about showboating because it's not in his DNA.
It wouldn't only be about his play on the field or his stats. It would also mean I'm a mean SOB and I mean business.

It's the no nonsense attitude that comes with the play that has a primary focus on winning as opposed to look how good and talented I am.

Would you get the same impression with AB wearing that shirt as opposed to Lambert, Deebo or even Hines Ward. No! AB wearing it would have a whole different meaning. It would mean more like... "Man I'm pretty, I'm so awesome."

AB showboats, Bell showboats, Bryant showboats, Mitchell showboats, Gay showboats on occassion to name a few. A little less of it with more focus might win a Superbowl. The only guys with rings on the team are Tomlin, Ben, Deebo and Gay.

Noone knows more than what a Steeler is than Mean Joe! That's why he's Mr. Steeler. The Proof! He has had a hand in every Lombardi past and present and no other person past or present in the organization can say that but Joe. I think that gives him more credence than you and I.

Pittsburgh Steelers: 6 Lombardies
Mean Joe Greene: 6 Lombardies
Current players like AB, Bell, etc: 0 Lombardies

It seems we haven't won a Superbowl without Joe! Guess who knows what a Pittsburgh Steeler is?!

[StillCurtains]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbU4Cb4A4-o

:chuckle:

BTW... Joe Greene says: That's the way it was and we liked it!
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/d2/b8/16/d2b816c60b56eb56c2a80010c70b1971.jpg

[teegre]

(post)


I see what you're trying to say... I do. (You routinely make valid points.) I just don't necessarily agree with you (this time).

Okay. I'm on vacation (walking around the Strip District and visiting relatives). The debate shall continue this evening.

:drink:

[StillCurtains]

I see what you're trying to say... I do. (You routinely make valid points.) I just don't necessarily agree with you (this time).

Okay. I'm on vacation (walking around the Strip District and visiting relatives). The debate shall continue this evening.

:drink:


Oh Man!!! I'm jealous!!!
That's great to hear Man! Really hope you're enjoying yourself my fellow Steeler Bro!
It's cool, you don't have to agree!
I know we both agree on one thing and that's supporting the Steelers on getting #7!
Again, best wishes to you on your vacation Bro!
:drink:

[Craic]

I see what you're trying to say... I do. (You routinely make valid points.) I just don't necessarily agree with you (this time).

Okay. I'm on vacation (walking around the Strip District and visiting relatives). The debate shall continue this evening.

:drink:

Stop off at Peppis and have a sandwich for me. I too am jealous. Hope you have a good visit there. Other than that, I gotta disagree with you about showboating. I just don't like it. If it was unplanned excitement (which I think his goalpost jump was) then that's one thing. But the planned celebrations smack of a lack of professionalism to me. And, since we both know AB is an absolute professional with a very good work ethic, it makes the celebrations that much worse. It gives him an undeserved image of being unprofessional and me-first, which I really don't think he is.

[Butch]

I have no problems with the celebrations, but I do have a problem with A.B. is singled out just as James was a few seasons back.

I do have a problem with the facebook live crap. That was not just selfish it was disrespectful.

[teegre]

Oh Man!!! I'm jealous!!!
That's great to hear Man! Really hope you're enjoying yourself my fellow Steeler Bro!
It's cool, you don't have to agree!
I know we both agree on one thing and that's supporting the Steelers on getting #7!
Again, best wishes to you on your vacation Bro!
:drink:

It was a good day. Just got back to the room.

QUESTION:
Explain why it would be okay for Deebo to wear the "Fuckin Maniac" t-shirt and not okay for AB to wear it??? AB may not be as intimidating, but over the past half-decade, he's easily the better player.

Okay. Big day tomorrow. Time to sneak out and go drinking. :wink02:

[teegre]

Stop off at Peppis and have a sandwich for me. I too am jealous. Hope you have a good visit there. Other than that, I gotta disagree with you about showboating. I just don't like it. If it was unplanned excitement (which I think his goalpost jump was) then that's one thing. But the planned celebrations smack of a lack of professionalism to me. And, since we both know AB is an absolute professional with a very good work ethic, it makes the celebrations that much worse. It gives him an undeserved image of being unprofessional and me-first, which I really don't think he is.

Peppi's on the docket for tomorrow.

What's your favorite?

(I'm glad that you brought up AB's work ethic; he is one focused individual.)

[StillCurtains]

It was a good day. Just got back to the room.

QUESTION:
Explain why it would be okay for Deebo to wear the "Fuckin Maniac" t-shirt and not okay for AB to wear it??? AB may not be as intimidating, but over the past half-decade, he's easily the better player.

Okay. Big day tomorrow. Time to sneak out and go drinking. :wink02:

What's up Man?! Glad your day was good!

Nothing at all wrong with AB wearing the T-shirt. All I am saying is that the mentality with certain players are different. As far as on the field, AB is just as productive if not more productive as any of the Steeler greats. I just feel that he needs to focus more and be more in tuned to the aspects of winning.

Am I against celebrations? No! There are times in a game where I feel that it's more than Ok to show your emotions after a huge play, especially in critical moments. It's fine with me as long as it is kept within the rules and not taunting the opponent. I don't feel it should be done on every play because every play is not a huge play but just routine.

As far as TD's go, there have been some celebrations that AB has had where I felt the league was being petty. There are some also where he goes over the top. Celebrate within the rules. Why do you have to do something to get fined and penalize the team? Here is my problem with AB: knowing the league is ready to throw a flag on you at anytime, do you really have to celebrate after EVERY TD? Really does anyone in the league have to?

I mean when you think about it, Why? These players nowadays act as if it is absolutely mandatory and paramount to celebrate on EVERY score! When you do that, you only have yourself in mind. You're thinking about what you're going to do the next time you score moreso than thinking about winning. Why not let your emotions of a highly contested game drive you and celebrate a score on occassion? To me every TD is way over the top. Getting penalties for it is unacceptable.

Noone wants penalties but I can moreso lose a game on a penalty with Harrison shoving down a player for constantly cutting him at the knees while he's trying to win, than losing a game because of a TD dance penalty by AB aiding in putting a team in FG range to beat us!

[Craic]

Peppi's on the docket for tomorrow.

What's your favorite?

(I'm glad that you brought up AB's work ethic; he is one focused individual.)

The Big Wheeler. However, with that bread, they could put peanut butter and jelly on it and it'd be unbelievable.

[teegre]

What's up Man?! Glad your day was good!

...

...losing a game because of a TD dance penalty by AB aiding in putting a team in FG range to beat us!

There's a lot to cover.


AB is the most focused & hardworking player on that team (except for Harrison).

There were no celebrations in the AFCCG... because, they didn't score TDs. I'd rather have TDs WITH celebrations than not having TDs. And, before you mention AB being unfocused, remember that aside from BB, AB was the only player who showed up to play.


AB does X... penalty.
Manny Sanders does X... no penalty.

Bell high-fives AB... penalty.
Ezekial Elliott does the same thing... no penalty.

The point: hypocrisy.

As far as losing a game due to a penalty, I will give you that one. But, so will AB. As in: tell me one time where AB celebrated when the game was close. (It hasn't happened.) His celebrations have almost all occurred when we are well ahead of the opponent (and/or early in the game).

Okay. I'm spent. Travel day forthcoming. :drink:

[Texasteel]

Hypocrisy in the application of league rules? Please, say it isn't so.
I don't think this will change any time soon either.

[Craic]

There's a lot to cover.


AB is the most focused & hardworking player on that team (except for Harrison).

There were no celebrations in the AFCCG... because, they didn't score TDs. I'd rather have TDs WITH celebrations than not having TDs. And, before you mention AB being unfocused, remember that aside from BB, AB was the only player who showed up to play.


AB does X... penalty.
Manny Sanders does X... no penalty.

Bell high-fives AB... penalty.
Ezekial Elliott does the same thing... no penalty.

The point: hypocrisy.

As far as losing a game due to a penalty, I will give you that one. But, so will AB. As in: tell me one time where AB celebrated when the game was close. (It hasn't happened.) His celebrations have almost all occurred when we are well ahead of the opponent (and/or early in the game).

Okay. I'm spent. Travel day forthcoming. :drink:

The problem is, Manny Sanders does X without any previous violations, so people aren't watching him. AB does X after U, V, and W so he's viewed through a more critical set of eyes. From a discipline perspective, the person doing X once is a one-off. The person doing X after U, V, and W is either pushing boundaries or showing he hasn't got the message yet. It's not hypocrisy, just typical human disciplinarian responses. Or, to put it in a more mundane phrasing—the nail that's sticking up is the one that gets hammered.

[Count Steeler]

The problem is, Manny Sanders does X without any previous violations, so people aren't watching him. AB does X after U, V, and W so he's viewed through a more critical set of eyes. From a discipline perspective, the person doing X once is a one-off. The person doing X after U, V, and W is either pushing boundaries or showing he hasn't got the message yet. It's not hypocrisy, just typical human disciplinarian responses. Or, to put it in a more mundane phrasing—the nail that's sticking up is the one that gets hammered.

I understand the logic, however, did Manny doing X, get the same punishment as Brown doing U? If Brown doing X is a fine, and due to being a repeat offender, should pay X * repeat offender fine.
Manny, committing same X act, however, not a repeat offender, should at least pay X * first offender fine.

[steelcityboyz]

Bottom line, it's not going to stop.. It;s what the NFL has turned into a big show, instead of a game. Sure players have been celebrating in years past just not as frequent as todays players. Myself I liked when players like Heath and Barry sanders acted when they scored and handed the ball to the official instead of putting on a broadway play, but I guess i'm just old school.

[teegre]

Myself I liked when players (insert stance)

I think that this is the crux.

Whichever way one feels on this topic is the way that one feels on this topic. Period. And, one can find examples to suit their position.

Person 1 likes vanilla.
Person 2 likes chocolate.
It doesn't mean either is necessarily wrong (unless they like strawberry... yuck!!!).

[Bluecoat96]

I think that this is the crux.

Whichever way one feels on this topic is the way that one feels on this topic. Period. And, one can find examples to suit their position.

Person 1 likes vanilla.
Person 2 likes chocolate.
It doesn't mean either is necessarily wrong (unless they like strawberry... yuck!!!).
I'm offended. I like strawberry. Therefore, you are WRONG. [emoji6]

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Craic]

I understand the logic, however, did Manny doing X, get the same punishment as Brown doing U? If Brown doing X is a fine, and due to being a repeat offender, should pay X * repeat offender fine.
Manny, committing same X act, however, not a repeat offender, should at least pay X * first offender fine.

I get what your saying. The problem is, however, that Brown's U drew attention to himself. Perhaps, X would have never drawn attention, except that it is in a long line of incidents. It's like, oh, I don't know, say, someone scratching. Normally, nothing is made of it. But, if that scratch has come after watering eyes and a runny nose along with redness in the area, a lot more is now paid to the fact that someone is scratching. Does that make sense?

[Count Steeler]

I get what your saying. The problem is, however, that Brown's U drew attention to himself. Perhaps, X would have never drawn attention, except that it is in a long line of incidents. It's like, oh, I don't know, say, someone scratching. Normally, nothing is made of it. But, if that scratch has come after watering eyes and a runny nose along with redness in the area, a lot more is now paid to the fact that someone is scratching. Does that make sense?

In the grand scheme of things, outside the NFL, I get your point. However, in the NFL, where EVERY play is scrutinized by the crack video squadron, infraction U should always be treated as infraction U, regardless of circumstances and intent and notoriety. If act U is performed by any uniformed NFL player, it should be treated in a homogeneous manner, with consideration given to repeat offender status. So if uniformed NFL player does U, fine should be first offender level. If uniformed NFL player does U, but it is his 4th infraction, then fine should be four time offender level. In both instances, however, act U is fined and hypocrisy is removed.

[Mojouw]

http://deadspin.com/nfl-referees-hate-the-rules-on-celebration-penalties-t-1794366924

Seems that everyone hates policing celebrations except the league office. Once again, the league's assumption of what most of America is willing to spend money on trumps any sensible policy reform.

[fansince'76]

In the grand scheme of things, outside the NFL, I get your point. However, in the NFL, where EVERY play is scrutinized by the crack video squadron, infraction U should always be treated as infraction U, regardless of circumstances and intent and notoriety.

Is that anything like Wossamotta U? :chuckle:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYp7EvsWWR4

[Craic]

it should be treated in a homogeneous manner, with consideration given to repeat offender status.

But, I believe that is exactly what happened. The act itself was looked upon as not being serious enough to obtain a fine. However, when consideration is given to the person doing the act, and that person is a repeat offender, then Act+Repeat Offender = fine.

Let's put it the other way. If Player X from another team got repeated penalties and fines for headslapping off the line, he is going to get a penalty this coming Sunday when he goes to swim over a guy, and his arm glance off the opponents shoulder pads and hits the helmet. That, however, does not mean that Stephan Truitt should be called and fined for headslapping if he comes off the line and in his swim move, his hands glances off the shoulder pads and hits the helmet.

- - - Updated - - -


Is that anything like Wossamotta U? :chuckle:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYp7EvsWWR4

Hey Rocky, watch me pull this fine out of my a...ntler.

[Count Steeler]

But, I believe that is exactly what happened. The act itself was looked upon as not being serious enough to obtain a fine. However, when consideration is given to the person doing the act, and that person is a repeat offender, then Act+Repeat Offender = fine.

Let's put it the other way. If Player X from another team got repeated penalties and fines for headslapping off the line, he is going to get a penalty this coming Sunday when he goes to swim over a guy, and his arm glance off the opponents shoulder pads and hits the helmet. That, however, does not mean that Stephan Truitt should be called and fined for headslapping if he comes off the line and in his swim move, his hands glances off the shoulder pads and hits the helmet.


No, no. Let's leave incidental contact, speed of the game penalties aside. The acts we are discussing are deliberate celebrations following a TD.

If Act U is a fine, it is a fine to all uniformed players. The ONLY consideration is the level of the fine, due to repeat offender status.
First timer = $X.
Repeat offender = $X * Goodell formula.

Again, all plays are reviewed, and should not be persuaded by prime time game slots, or how many replays in the initial broadcast, or by repeat offender status, or by how long it stays in the news cycle, or by how many times the play is repeated on ESPN (or whatever Sports network). The repeat offender status should only determine if the fine gets increased.

If Brown twerks and it is his 4th celebration offense, fine is $15,000.
If Sanders twerks and it is his 1st celebration offense, fine is $7,500.

[Born2Steel]

If players are causing 15 yard personal foul penalties, ON PURPOSE, the coach should sit the player anyway. Isn't there a rule that 2 PFs means player ejection? Personal foul, unsportsmanlike conduct, on player. This is his second PF,UC penalty. Player is ejected. Fines, penalties, ejections, oh my.

[steelerdude15]

The gameplan on defense in New England was one of the big reason of our blowout loss.

The best post in this thread.

Sorry, but I don't think showboating held the Steelers back at all. Having an ineffective defensive gameplan and not having the proper talent of defense did.