Backup QB anyone?

[DesertSteel]

Anyone interested in paying backup money to one of the following?

1. RG3
2. Fitz
3. Kap
4. Cutler

In a quarterback starved league I'm kind of surprised that they are all still available. I'd be intrigued by 1. and 4. as insurance if it was backup money.

[86WARD]

Fits would be the only one on that list I would even think of taking a look at. Cutler if he were one of the remaining three left but honestly, Aside from Fitz, I'd rather have Landry Jones...lol.

[Psycho Ward 86]

It is Ian Rapoport so take it with a grain of salt, but he has reported that Kaepernick may be looking for $10 million a year :lol:


not a fan of system QB's who need to be spoonfed by an offensive mastermind just to have any semblance of success so that rules out RG3 and Kaepernick for me

[Shoes]

Fitz, but I think the Steelers go with what they have.

[Born2Steel]

I'll be in the minority here but from that list, Cutler. I like that Cutler can throw EZ to EZ pretty much on target. With our weapons he could do well, IMO. But no, I wouldn't sign any of them.

[BurghBoy412]

Did you say Patrick Mahomes?

[steelreserve]

They'll all be looking for more than backup money, except RG3, who is in the "one-year minimum prove-it deal" phase of his career (for a good reason).

Plus we already have two backups making backup money, so no. I really hope Jones ends up as the third-stringer, though.

[Shoes]

Did you say Patrick Mahomes?

Tomlin & Colbert didn't show up at his pro day. They won't draft a QB even if Mahomes is available @30 imo

[DesertSteel]

If Ben retired tomorrow would you rather have Cutler or Landry Jones?

[Born2Steel]

If Ben retired tomorrow would you rather have Cutler or Landry Jones?

I would take Cutler over Jones. Jones can still be the backup. But Cutler is the better QB. Just my opinion.

[BurghBoy412]

Tomlin & Colbert didn't show up at his pro day. They won't draft a QB even if Mahomes is available @30 imo
Good to know

[BurghBoy412]

I want the Harvard guy.

[Dwinsgames]

If Ben retired tomorrow we are screwed

fixed it for you

[Shoes]

Good to know

Fichtner has a private workout with him & meets with his family afterwards.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/03/qb-coach-randy-fichtner-watching-patrick-mahomes-pro-day-important-update/

[BurghBoy412]

Fichtner has a private workout with him & meets with his family afterwards.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/03/qb-coach-randy-fichtner-watching-patrick-mahomes-pro-day-important-update/
Not so fast. Lol

[Shoes]

Not so fast. Lol


Did you put this highlight reel together BB? :chuckle: He is a bit like Ben.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ22qLUTJ3M

[teegre]

Re: Mahomes

Fichtner is there... :nod:

Tomlin & Colbert are not... :no:

SUMMATION:
:huh:

[Born2Steel]

Fichtner is/was a QB guru. Send him to TT, if he likes Mahomes enough, invite him to dinner.

[86WARD]

I just posted in the draft thread as well, I'd take Mahomes in a second if he's there at 30. He's a lot like Ben. The more I see, the more I like! I think there's a really great chance that the Giants grab him though. They've filled a lot of needs through free agency.

[Moose]

Out of the list provided, I say 'no' to all.....especially that communistic, Mother Fkr Kat !! As a vet I'd have to quit going to games in fear of getting arrested after I kick his piece of shit ass !! Sorry, just my opinion and love of my country and flag of which I took a oath to protect.

[polamalubeast]

I really do not want Jay Cutler in my team.A QB needs to be a leader....

The other 3 are also horrible and the price will be too high too.

[BurghBoy412]

Out of the list provided, I say 'no' to all.....especially that communistic, Mother Fkr Kat !! As a vet I'd have to quit going to games in fear of getting arrested after I kick his piece of shit ass !! Sorry, just my opinion and love of my country and flag of which I took a oath to protect.
Stop it Bro! You're not kicking anyone's ass! Settle down pal.

[teegre]

I just saw a tweet that Fichtner set up a private workout with Mahomes... for Tomlin & Colbert to meet/watch/evaluate him.

Game back on!!!

[BurghBoy412]

I just saw a tweet that Fichtner set up a private workout with Mahomes... for Tomlin & Colbert to meet/watch/evaluate him.

Game back on!!!Heck Yeah!!!!

[Shoes]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000795872/article/what-we-learned-saints-cardinals-among-draft-fits-for-mahomes

[DesertSteel]

Hey let's have a draft thread!

[BurghBoy412]

Hey let's have a draft thread!
That's a fantastic idea!

[DesertSteel]

That's a fantastic idea!
I thought so!

[Method28]

Did you put this highlight reel together BB? :chuckle: He is a bit like Ben.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ22qLUTJ3M
Haven't seen much from him but in that video they were pretty much all go routes with him chucking the ball up. Great pocket pressence and maneuverability, great arm strength but i gotta go check out some other videos and see how he makes reads etc.

His posture and some mechanics definitely resemble Ben!

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

[Moose]

I just saw a tweet that Fichtner set up a private workout with Mahomes... for Tomlin & Colbert to meet/watch/evaluate him.

Game back on!!!

Mahomes doesn't look bad at all ! Definitely needs a 'check out'. Thanks for the info.

[Craic]

Haven't seen much from him but in that video they were pretty much all go routes with him chucking the ball up. Great pocket pressence and maneuverability, great arm strength but i gotta go check out some other videos and see how he makes reads etc.

His posture and some mechanics definitely resemble Ben!

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
I wouldn't call that "chucking the ball up." Sure, there were a few, but several others he was hitting guys in stride on inside slants, go routes, etc. He was also throwing across his body and putting the ball on target. Other throws he was hitting back shoulder, it looked like. However, I would agree some things definitely reminded me of Ben, but Ben honestly wasn't as accurate and didn't have as good a long ball coming out of college. If this kid's skills can translate, he'll have a pretty interesting career in the NFL.

[pczach]

I wouldn't call that "chucking the ball up." Sure, there were a few, but several others he was hitting guys in stride on inside slants, go routes, etc. He was also throwing across his body and putting the ball on target. Other throws he was hitting back shoulder, it looked like. However, I would agree some things definitely reminded me of Ben, but Ben honestly wasn't as accurate and didn't have as good a long ball coming out of college. If this kid's skills can translate, he'll have a pretty interesting career in the NFL.



Mahomes has talent, but he also has a lot of bad habits. He needs to completely change his mindset in the NFL. He will be a turnover machine. He does routinely throw the ball up and hopes his receiver comes down with it.

His footwork is messed up, but he can work on that. That's just from playing in a system where he was never under center. That's an obstacle that all quarterbacks in that system will have to overcome.

You say Ben wasn't as accurate as Mahomes, but I see it the other way around. Ben carried his team and was the best athlete on the field with not much talent around him. I think Ben made the system work, where Mahomes is more a product of the system. Don't get me wrong, Mahomes has a lot of physical talent. I'm more worried about the way he plays the game above the shoulders. Not that he's not smart enough. It's the way he takes risks constantly throwing the ball into coverage. I also believe Ben was a more natural thrower than Mahomes. Neither of them throw perfect spirals, but have great arm strength.

He definitely does have physical skills, but IMO he has a looooong way to go before he can be ready to play in the NFL. I just don't know that I can justify a first or second round pick on this guy. I see a lot of bust in his game, but there's almost no way to know until you see how he picks up an offense and how well he can carry it to the field. The good news is that he would probably have at least 2 full years to develop if the Steelers picked him. In my heart I think Ben will play at least two more seasons.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[Born2Steel]

Mahomes has talent, but he also has a lot of bad habits. He needs to completely change his mindset in the NFL. He will be a turnover machine. He does routinely throw the ball up and hopes his receiver comes down with it.

His footwork is messed up, but he can work on that. That's just from playing in a system where he was never under center. That's an obstacle that all quarterbacks in that system will have to overcome.

You say Ben wasn't as accurate as Mahomes, but I see it the other way around. Ben carried his team and was the best athlete on the field with not much talent around him. I think Ben made the system work, where Mahomes is more a product of the system. Don't get me wrong, Mahomes has a lot of physical talent. I'm more worried about the way he plays the game above the shoulders. Not that he's not smart enough. It's the way he takes risks constantly throwing the ball into coverage. I also believe Ben was a more natural thrower than Mahomes. Neither of them throw perfect spirals, but have great arm strength.

He definitely does have physical skills, but IMO he has a looooong way to go before he can be ready to play in the NFL. I just don't know that I can justify a first or second round pick on this guy. I see a lot of bust in his game, but there's almost no way to know until you see how he picks up an offense and how well he can carry it to the field. The good news is that he would probably have at least 2 full years to develop if the Steelers picked him. In my heart I think Ben will play at least two more seasons.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Your assessment of Mahomes looks a lot like mine. The type of offense he played in does make a difference aside from arm talent. The guy has all the arm talent you could want. But he ran the offense from the shotgun and didn't have to make reads because he knew where the ball was going before the snap. I think he will be drafted in the 1st on talent alone, if he had played in a pro style, maybe top 5. The best pro style QBs in this draft, IMO, are Peterman and Kelly. From a head in the game standpoint, Peterman, and from a raw talent standpoint, Kelly. So, from those 3, It's really a pick your poison scenario.

[Dwinsgames]

The good news is that he would probably have at least 2 full years to develop if the Steelers picked him. In my heart I think Ben will play at least two more seasons.




Ben may play 3 more years of this could be his last , no way to tell but I have a gut feeling is he gets a chance to hoist another Lombardi that will be the last time you see him on the field unless he is holding a microphone ... hoisting a Lombardi then retiring puts us in the worst possible position drafting at the lowest possible point in each round ... the time to take a franchise QB is when one presents itself especially when your current one could leave at a moments notice

[DesertSteel]

Ben may play 3 more years of this could be his last , no way to tell but I have a gut feeling is he gets a chance to hoist another Lombardi that will be the last time you see him on the field unless he is holding a microphone ... hoisting a Lombardi then retiring puts us in the worst possible position drafting at the lowest possible point in each round ... the time to take a franchise QB is when one presents itself especially when your current one could leave at a moments notice
I'll live with that scenario if Ben can pull it off. Number 7 in the case is worth starting over. Not to say that the FO shouldn't be prepared. I'm just speaking as a fan. I'd rather win it all and then suffer a couple of 7-9, 6-10 seasons than to go 10-6, 11-5 and fall short.

[pczach]

Ben may play 3 more years of this could be his last , no way to tell but I have a gut feeling is he gets a chance to hoist another Lombardi that will be the last time you see him on the field unless he is holding a microphone ... hoisting a Lombardi then retiring puts us in the worst possible position drafting at the lowest possible point in each round ... the time to take a franchise QB is when one presents itself especially when your current one could leave at a moments notice


I get what you're saying. I still think the rest of the roster needs to be completed with a good draft. If they get a good pass rusher, a very good cover corner, and find a couple good players that eventually become starters or provide depth, the roster is pretty much set. That's why I think they won't take a quarterback high in the draft. I don't think there is a quarterback that is worthy of a high pick in this draft. To reach for a quarterback that they see talent in, but would probably be going in the late second or third round in other years doesn't get me excited about taking him at 30.

I, like many, believe the Steelers are showing interest in quarterbacks to try to get as many teams as possible to take a quarterback before they pick so that there are more great position players available when they make the #30 pick. If it were me, I would take a developmental quarterback later in the draft if the opportunity presents itself. Kaaya or Kelly make some sense with where they are and the possible ceiling of both of them.

Once the roster is solid and deep, they will have a chance to move up to get a guy they like in the future.

[DesertSteel]

Let's say that We go D in R1 and then package our 2 and our comp 3 to move up to the first part of the 2nd and take Mahomes (if he's there)...

Would anybody by down for that?

[Born2Steel]

ASK THE LEAGUE: What's the word on QB prospect Patrick Mahomes?

According to most folks, the 2017 quarterback class doesn't have many franchise-changing options, as I alluded to above. Coaches and scouts repeatedly have stated that there aren't many Day 1 starters in the group, but we've heard plenty of evaluators suggest that there are some intriguing developmental prospects in the group. Texas Tech's Patrick Mahomes (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/patrick-mahomes?id=2558125) has been cited as arguably the quarterback with the most upside in the class, despite the fact that he played his college ball in an air raid system that produces statistical marvels but few NFL starters. With the buzz building that Mahomes could sneak into the first round, I thought I'd reach out to some folks around the league to get their take on the QB's game and long-term potential. Here's what I asked and their responses ...
Is Patrick Mahomes a franchise quarterback?

AFC national scout: "Physically, he has all of the tools to be a guy. He has some serious arm talent. I know he is a little reckless, but he makes some 'wow' throws that every guy can't make. Plus, he's athletic and tough. He will need some time to grow into the player that you want him to be, but he could be a star at the next level."
AFC college scouting director: "He's a good player, but he needs some work. I see the arm talent and the athleticism, but he is inconsistent in so many areas. He will need to sit and wait for a few years before he can be a starter. ... If a team is patient and willing to wait on him, I can see him being a nice developmental guy. I just couldn't pull the trigger on him in the first round."
NFC scout: "He's special. He's a rare talent that you simply don't see very often. ... I know he's raw and unpolished, but the talent is off the charts. You have to figure out how to harness it. ... He's a gunslinger and I don't know if he can change. The team that takes him has to understand that and be willing to live with it."
NFC personnel executive: "He's got a great arm, big balls and he's mobile. ... He's going to drive his head coach crazy for the first couple of years and there's no getting around that. If it clicks for him and he's coachable, I think he could become a special quarterback."
MY TAKE
There aren't many quarterbacks in the NFL with the raw talent and tools that Patrick Mahomes brings to the table. Checking in at 6-foot-2 and 225 pounds with a rare combination of athleticism and A+ arm talent, he is a dynamic gunslinger capable of revolutionizing the position with his electric passing skills.
While there are plenty of guys in the league capable of making every throw in the book, there are few passers capable of delivering strikes to every area of the field from unorthodox throwing positions while moving away from the target. Whether it's dropping a dime to a streaking receiver on a post route following a fadeaway drop or delivering a teardrop over the top of multiple defenders along the boundary while on the move, Mahomes specializes in making "wow" throws. Although a number of those throws are ill-advised, the Texas Tech star's penchant for producing splash plays sets him apart from others at the position. Considering how those highlight plays leave a lasting impression on a scout's mind, I'm not surprised Mahomes has earned rave reviews for his raw talent and potential.


With that being said, I'm not fully convinced that Mahomes has the goods to be a franchise quarterback. Playing winning football at the position requires discipline and patience in the NFL, and I'm not sure he is willing to tone down his game when the defense takes away the deep ball and dares him to win with a connect-the-dots approach. Moreover, I worry about Mahomes' accuracy and ball placement based on his inconsistent footwork and mechanics. While those spectacular off-platform throws look great on the highlight reel, the majority of his off-balance throws sail over the top of his intended receiver. With NFL defenders prone to snagging interceptions off tips and overthrows, Mahomes' sandlot style could make him a turnover machine at the next level.
Overall, I love Mahomes' natural talent and athleticism. He has a unique combination of skills that could help him become a magical playmaker at the position. Thinking about potential comps for the gunslinger, Mahomes reminds me a lot of Jay Cutler (http://www.nfl.com/player/jaycutler/2495824/profile) when he was at Vanderbilt. Cutler single-handedly kept his team in games with his heroic playmaking ability, but he never fully grasped how to play winning football on Sunday. If Mahomes fails to embrace a more disciplined approach to game management, footwork and mechanics, he could become the ultimate tease at the position as a talented passer who is incapable of consistently leading his team to the winner's circle.
My Mac doesn't show the link. This is from NFL.com

[Mojouw]

Nice article on Mahomes. What I take away from that is whether Mahomes is more Favre and Roethlisberger and will be a "coachable" gunslinger or he is more Cutler and Mallet and is just an uncoachable douche-canoe.

I feel like teams are so mystified by this question with many prospects every year. Shouldn't this be something you can figure out in the interview process? Either a kid is a moron and stubborn or they aren't.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, in terms of how long and IF Mahomes can impact -- read this on Dak Prescott from last year: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/dak-prescott?id=2555260

[DesertSteel]

Nice article on Mahomes. What I take away from that is whether Mahomes is more Favre and Roethlisberger and will be a "coachable" gunslinger or he is more Cutler and Mallet and is just an uncoachable douche-canoe.

Well, Cutler has had a pretty nice career and made a lot of money. I'm sure Mahomes wouldn't mind that. Mallet is a bum.

[pczach]

ASK THE LEAGUE: What's the word on QB prospect Patrick Mahomes?

According to most folks, the 2017 quarterback class doesn't have many franchise-changing options, as I alluded to above. Coaches and scouts repeatedly have stated that there aren't many Day 1 starters in the group, but we've heard plenty of evaluators suggest that there are some intriguing developmental prospects in the group. Texas Tech's Patrick Mahomes (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/patrick-mahomes?id=2558125) has been cited as arguably the quarterback with the most upside in the class, despite the fact that he played his college ball in an air raid system that produces statistical marvels but few NFL starters. With the buzz building that Mahomes could sneak into the first round, I thought I'd reach out to some folks around the league to get their take on the QB's game and long-term potential. Here's what I asked and their responses ...
Is Patrick Mahomes a franchise quarterback?

AFC national scout: "Physically, he has all of the tools to be a guy. He has some serious arm talent. I know he is a little reckless, but he makes some 'wow' throws that every guy can't make. Plus, he's athletic and tough. He will need some time to grow into the player that you want him to be, but he could be a star at the next level."
AFC college scouting director: "He's a good player, but he needs some work. I see the arm talent and the athleticism, but he is inconsistent in so many areas. He will need to sit and wait for a few years before he can be a starter. ... If a team is patient and willing to wait on him, I can see him being a nice developmental guy. I just couldn't pull the trigger on him in the first round."
NFC scout: "He's special. He's a rare talent that you simply don't see very often. ... I know he's raw and unpolished, but the talent is off the charts. You have to figure out how to harness it. ... He's a gunslinger and I don't know if he can change. The team that takes him has to understand that and be willing to live with it."
NFC personnel executive: "He's got a great arm, big balls and he's mobile. ... He's going to drive his head coach crazy for the first couple of years and there's no getting around that. If it clicks for him and he's coachable, I think he could become a special quarterback."
MY TAKE
There aren't many quarterbacks in the NFL with the raw talent and tools that Patrick Mahomes brings to the table. Checking in at 6-foot-2 and 225 pounds with a rare combination of athleticism and A+ arm talent, he is a dynamic gunslinger capable of revolutionizing the position with his electric passing skills.
While there are plenty of guys in the league capable of making every throw in the book, there are few passers capable of delivering strikes to every area of the field from unorthodox throwing positions while moving away from the target. Whether it's dropping a dime to a streaking receiver on a post route following a fadeaway drop or delivering a teardrop over the top of multiple defenders along the boundary while on the move, Mahomes specializes in making "wow" throws. Although a number of those throws are ill-advised, the Texas Tech star's penchant for producing splash plays sets him apart from others at the position. Considering how those highlight plays leave a lasting impression on a scout's mind, I'm not surprised Mahomes has earned rave reviews for his raw talent and potential.


With that being said, I'm not fully convinced that Mahomes has the goods to be a franchise quarterback. Playing winning football at the position requires discipline and patience in the NFL, and I'm not sure he is willing to tone down his game when the defense takes away the deep ball and dares him to win with a connect-the-dots approach. Moreover, I worry about Mahomes' accuracy and ball placement based on his inconsistent footwork and mechanics. While those spectacular off-platform throws look great on the highlight reel, the majority of his off-balance throws sail over the top of his intended receiver. With NFL defenders prone to snagging interceptions off tips and overthrows, Mahomes' sandlot style could make him a turnover machine at the next level.
Overall, I love Mahomes' natural talent and athleticism. He has a unique combination of skills that could help him become a magical playmaker at the position. Thinking about potential comps for the gunslinger, Mahomes reminds me a lot of Jay Cutler (http://www.nfl.com/player/jaycutler/2495824/profile) when he was at Vanderbilt. Cutler single-handedly kept his team in games with his heroic playmaking ability, but he never fully grasped how to play winning football on Sunday. If Mahomes fails to embrace a more disciplined approach to game management, footwork and mechanics, he could become the ultimate tease at the position as a talented passer who is incapable of consistently leading his team to the winner's circle.
My Mac doesn't show the link. This is from NFL.com


That sums up pretty much the way I feel about Mahomes. It's nice to know there are others that are seeing things the same way I am when they watch him play. They expand on it a little more than I did in my post above, but they are definitely questioning the same parts of his game that I am.

That was a good read. Thanks.

[Mojouw]

I thought this post was really good thoughts on QB now or QB in 2018.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2017/4/2/15152356/2018-qb-class-breakdown-why-the-steelers-shouldnt-wait-to-take-a-qb

Bottom line, would Mahomes be the 3rd or 4th best QB in 2018? If so and he is there at 30, then you are getting "equal" value a year earlier. Interesting thought and I know doodle squat about the 2018 QBs. SO others will have to hash that out.

[pczach]

I thought this post was really good thoughts on QB now or QB in 2018.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2017/4/2/15152356/2018-qb-class-breakdown-why-the-steelers-shouldnt-wait-to-take-a-qb

Bottom line, would Mahomes be the 3rd or 4th best QB in 2018? If so and he is there at 30, then you are getting "equal" value a year earlier. Interesting thought and I know doodle squat about the 2018 QBs. SO others will have to hash that out.


It's an interesting article. It gives some sound reasoning behind taking Mahomes this year.

I don't really agree with it, but I understand where he's coming from.

His analysis of the quarterbacks coming out next year is pretty accurate, but there are always a few guys that don't play as well as they did the year before, and a few guys that come from nowhere to be high draft picks.

Darnold is considered a savant. If he comes out, I fully expect him to be the #1 pick. There's no guarantee of that, and many believe he's going to finish out his eligibility at USC because he's that kind of kid. He's a pro-style quarterback that can make all the throws and seems to understand the game on a level that defies his age. He's also pretty athletic but always keeps his eyes downfield looking to make a play with his arm. He is the golden child.

Rosen is good, but hasn't quite lived up to the hype when he came out of high school as the best QB in the country. A very good season from him will likely make him a top 5 pick. He's another guy that operates from the pocket, and is not overly athletic but is athletic enough to move and create. He plays in ex-NFL head coach Jim Mora's system, so he will be more pro-ready than others. He's a really talented guy that needs to harness all his gifts.

Lamar Jackson is more of an athlete/runner than he is a passer. He's a dynamic athlete.....think Mike Vick. I don't think his game translates to the NFL because he doesn't throw it well enough. I could be wrong, but I see him as a guy that may be looking for a new position at the next level.

Trace McSorley is nowhere near ready to be an NFL player. He is small, lacks the arm strength, and plays in a spread system. The kid is an unbelievable winner, and he's definitely a gamer, but I wouldn't consider him a top prospect right now.

Mason Rudolph is big and appears to have a lot of natural talent, but again plays in a system that makes it hard to see how his skills will translate to the NFL.

Baker Mayfield has a lot of talent. He takes care of the football, and appears to have a lot of good traits, but will his head get in the way?

Josh Allen, Jake Browning, and Luke Faulk all have talent. They all need to show more this coming year before I believe they're top talents worthy of high picks.

Here are some other guys that are further down the rating right now but could emerge.

Tanner Mangum, BYU
Kenny Hill, TCU
Anu Solomon, Arizona
Brett Rypien, Boise State
Jeremy Johnson, Auburn
Max Brown, Pittsburgh
Quinton Flowers, South Florida
Matt Linehan, Idaho
Mike White, Western Kentucky
JT Barrett, Ohio St
a gazillion other guys :lol:

I do believe there is a lot more talent coming out next year, but if Darnold doesn't come out it diminishes the class and more teams may reach.

[Steeldude]

Anyone interested in paying backup money to one of the following?

1. RG3
2. Fitz
3. Kap
4. Cutler

In a quarterback starved league I'm kind of surprised that they are all still available. I'd be intrigued by 1. and 4. as insurance if it was backup money.

Too much money for Cutler. Griffin and Kaepernick suck. I would rather have Jones.