Mayocks updated rankings

[Dwinsgames]

rankings 2.0 are out see them here

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000794141/article/mike-mayocks-2017-nfl-draft-position-rankings-20

[teegre]

Mike Mayock may not be great at evaluating every position, but he's pretty darn good with DBs.


Moreau & Kazee were two guys I'd had hoped to get in R3. Not any more.

[Texasteel]

Agree on Moreau. Actually have seen him ranked as a possible 1st or early 2nd. Not likely to get many INTs out of him but a master at knocking the ball away at the last second, and a good tackler. ( Sound like someone you know ) 1st round,,,,,,,,,,, not sure. 2nd, I might, even after drafting Burns last year. Would add a lot of speed at CB.

Kevin King is a kid I notices last year. On the field looked to me a lot like Jean-Baptiste, who I liked last year. A lot of the same good points, a lot of the same bad points.

[teegre]

Agree on Moreau. Actually have seen him ranked as a possible 1st or early 2nd. Not likely to get many INTs out of him but a master at knocking the ball away at the last second, and a good tackler. ( Sound like someone you know ) 1st round,,,,,,,,,,, not sure. 2nd, I might, even after drafting Burns last year. Would add a lot of speed at CB.

And, also like Ike Taylor, Moreau started off as a RB.

[Born2Steel]

I like Desmond King being listed as Nickel/Free Safety with his skill set vs his size. I don't think we will end up drafting him, but I'll be curious to watch his career.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Mike Mayock may not be great at evaluating every position, but he's pretty darn good with DBs.


Moreau & Kazee were two guys I'd had hoped to get in R3. Not any more.

I love Mayock but Peppers as the top safety AND a top 10 talent seems like insanity

[DesertSteel]

I love Mayock but Peppers as the top safety AND a top 10 talent seems like insanity
I think he believes that wherever you put him he's gonna make plays.

Really wouldn't upset me if we took him at 30. I'd rather have TJ Watt but Peppers wouldn't be a Jarvis Jones kind of screwup. Peppers is an athlete and Jones was a fraud.

[Born2Steel]

I think he believes that wherever you put him he's gonna make plays.

Really wouldn't upset me if we took him at 30. I'd rather have TJ Watt but Peppers wouldn't be a Jarvis Jones kind of screwup. Peppers is an athlete and Jones was a fraud.

I don't mind the Peppers pick either. BUT, it does depend on how they plan to use him. We don't really 'need' a safety at 30. We could take an ILB at 30. If they plan to use Peppers as a hybrid safety/ILB, move him all over the defense guy, then yes! Get him at 30. If he's just going to be a safety, he doesn't hold pick 30 value, IMO.

[DesertSteel]

I don't mind the Peppers pick either. BUT, it does depend on how they plan to use him. We don't really 'need' a safety at 30. We could take an ILB at 30. If they plan to use Peppers as a hybrid safety/ILB, move him all over the defense guy, then yes! Get him at 30. If he's just going to be a safety, he doesn't hold pick 30 value, IMO.
I like the part I bolded.

[teegre]

I love Mayock but Peppers as the top safety AND a top 10 talent seems like insanity

Maybe... or, we've all misjudged Peppers.


(I'm definitely going to rethink him.)

[pczach]

Maybe... or, we've all misjudged Peppers.


(I'm definitely going to rethink him.)


The thing about Peppers is that he checks all the boxes athletically. He was moved all over the field, but mostly played in the box.

His production from a pure football standpoint doesn't match the athleticism. He hasn't produced turnovers, but he does make a difference on the field. He's also a great return man.

He's a very difficult player to determine how he will translate to the NFL and also how specifically to use him. I would not take him at #30 if there was a more cut and dry talent at that pick. He really is a bit of a wildcard. He may be a homerun. He may be a man without a position at the next level that can only succeed if you structure the entire defense around him. I just don't know if it's worth that risk. I think that whoever takes him has to already know how they plan to implement him into the defense.

People keep mentioning Peppers and comparing his skill set to Troy P. He's not Troy. He doesn't have the pure athleticism and ball skills of Troy. Peppers doesn't play on the back end of a defense, even though they move him around. He tends to play close to the LOS, so he doesn't have the versatility or the impact that a player like Troy had.

He's a very tough evaluation.

[teegre]

The thing about Peppers is that he checks all the boxes athletically. He was moved all over the field, but mostly played in the box.

His production from a pure football standpoint doesn't match the athleticism. He hasn't produced turnovers, but he does make a difference on the field. He's also a great return man.

He's a very difficult player to determine how he will translate to the NFL and also how specifically to use him. I would not take him at #30 if there was a more cut and dry talent at that pick. He really is a bit of a wildcard. He may be a homerun. He may be a man without a position at the next level that can only succeed if you structure the entire defense around him. I just don't know if it's worth that risk. I think that whoever takes him has to already know how they plan to implement him into the defense.

People keep mentioning Peppers and comparing his skill set to Troy P. He's not Troy. He doesn't have the pure athleticism and ball skills of Troy. Peppers doesn't play on the back end of a defense, even though they move him around. He tends to play close to the LOS, so he doesn't have the versatility or the impact that a player like Troy had.

He's a very tough evaluation.

You know who would figure out a way to use him...

Belichick

People get tired of hearing about Belichick, but he's a great coach for legitimate reasons. One of which is that he asks a player to do what he's best at (as opposed to trying to make a player fit his system). For example, if a player is excellent at pass rushing on obvious passing downs but is meh at playing the run, Belichick will have that player pass rush on obvious passing downs. What Belichick wouldn't do is try to have that player line up in short-yardage situations.

Find out what Peppers does best, and have him do that all game long.

[Born2Steel]

You know who would figure out a way to use him...

Belichick

People get tired of hearing about Belichick, but he's a great coach for legitimate reasons. One of which is that he asks a player to do what he's best at (as opposed to trying to make a player fit his system). For example, if a player is excellent at pass rushing on obvious passing downs but is meh at playing the run, Belichick will have that player pass rush on obvious passing downs. What Belichick wouldn't do is try to have that player line up in short-yardage situations.

Find out what Peppers does best, and have him do that all game long.

I think Butler can do that too(AFCCG being an anomaly). Question is, right now, is he a 30th overall value? He could probably become that and grow into that value, but is he now? Mayock seems to think so, and as a safety. I think I can go with the pick if he is the player selected, BPA and all. I just don't have him on my top 5 'IF HE'S THERE...' list. Yet.

[pczach]

You know who would figure out a way to use him...

Belichick

People get tired of hearing about Belichick, but he's a great coach for legitimate reasons. One of which is that he asks a player to do what he's best at (as opposed to trying to make a player fit his system). For example, if a player is excellent at pass rushing on obvious passing downs but is meh at playing the run, Belichick will have that player pass rush on obvious passing downs. What Belichick wouldn't do is try to have that player line up in short-yardage situations.

Find out what Peppers does best, and have him do that all game long.

You are correct teegre. That's how Belichick does things.

That still doesn't mean Peppers is going to be a dynamic player at the NFL level. If he can only play in the box, he's not going to be a great player.

[DesertSteel]

You are correct teegre. That's how Belichick does things.

That still doesn't mean Peppers is going to be a dynamic player at the NFL level. If he can only play in the box, he's not going to be a great player.
Seems like I heard from a scout a few days ago that he displayed great hips at his pro day. That's a good indicator that he could cover.

[pczach]

Seems like I heard from a scout a few days ago that he displayed great hips at his pro day. That's a good indicator that he could cover.

The problem is he didn't do a ton of it against big-time players. He had those great hips his entire college career, yet couldn't break on the ball well enough to intercept passes against lesser competition.

I'm not saying he can't be a great player, but he's not big enough to be a linebacker in the NFL. If he's required to play safety, and that's what his size dictates...you need to know that he can cover well if you're going to take him in the first round. He hasn't really shown that or put that on tape.

If you want a dynamic safety that you know can cover, Buddha Baker is that guy. He routinely covered slot receivers and was excellent in coverage.

Marcus Maye is another all-around talent with cover skills.

Both Baker and Maye are free safties, where Peppers would be more likely to be a strong safety.

If they draft him, I hope he's a HOF safety that creates turnovers and huge plays all over the field. But all that is a projection because he has not shown that ability to this point of his career.

[teegre]

You are correct teegre. That's how Belichick does things.

That still doesn't mean Peppers is going to be a dynamic player at the NFL level. If he can only play in the box, he's not going to be a great player.

Maybe... maybe not.

My point is that due to Mayock's analysis of the DBs (which I respect), I'll have to look more closely at Peppers.

[Dwinsgames]

Here's the problem with Peppers, he is too small to play linebacker (213 Lbs) and doesn't have the cover skills to play defensive back in the NFL. What will his role be in the NFL? I don't think it is worth a 1st round pick to try and find a role for someone?

a more costly defensive version of Dri Archer ? ouch maybe that was a little harsh

[st33lersguy]

I'm not saying he can't be a great player, but he's not big enough to be a linebacker in the NFL. If he's required to play safety, and that's what his size dictates...you need to know that he can cover well if you're going to take him in the first round. He hasn't really shown that or put that on tape.

If you want a dynamic safety that you know can cover, Buddha Baker is that guy. He routinely covered slot receivers and was excellent in coverage.

Marcus Maye is another all-around talent with cover skills.


Totally agree with these points.

Knowing Peppers is too small to play linebacker and doesn't have the cover skills to play safety, where do you play him? I don't think it is worth a first round pick for a guy who can't fit in a position

[teegre]

I was reading up on Jabrill Peppers. Playing devil's advocate...

--Harbaugh always had him shadow the opposition's best offensive player. Sometimes it was a tight end, sometimes a receiver, sometimes a running back. This might explain his lack of INTs.

--He's smart. He attended (and was able to keep up with being in) four different position meetings: LBs, DBs, RBs, & special teams.

--His defensive coordinator says Peppers is one of the smartest player he's ever coached. He added that Peppers could have been asked to cover a different assignment on any given play, and thus, Peppers had (at some point) played "every" position on defense.

--He's a rock-solid tackler (a lost art).

[BurghBoy412]

I was reading up on Jabrill Peppers. Playing devil's advocate...

--Harbaugh always had him shadow the opposition's best offensive player. Sometimes it was a tight end, sometimes a receiver, sometimes a running back. This might explain his lack of INTs.

--He's smart. He attended (and was able to keep up with being in) four different position meetings: LBs, DBs, RBs, & special teams.

--His defensive coordinator says Peppers is one of the smartest player he's ever coached. He added that Peppers could have been asked to cover a different assignment on any given play, and thus, Peppers had (at some point) played "every" position on defense.

--He's a rock-solid tackler (a lost art).
JP is my favorite player in this draft. I was always a big Charles Woodson guy and he reminds me a lot of Woodson for some reason. The description you gave there pretty much describes the perfect New England Patriot in my mind. I really hope he ends up elsewhere but I've got a sneaking suspicion the hoodie will find a way to reel him in.

[teegre]

The description you gave there pretty much describes the perfect New England Patriot in my mind. I really hope he ends up elsewhere but I've got a sneaking suspicion the hoodie will find a way to reel him in.

Bingo!!!

Ugh :no:

[Psycho Ward 86]

I was reading up on Jabrill Peppers. Playing devil's advocate...

--Harbaugh always had him shadow the opposition's best offensive player. Sometimes it was a tight end, sometimes a receiver, sometimes a running back. This might explain his lack of INTs.

--He's smart. He attended (and was able to keep up with being in) four different position meetings: LBs, DBs, RBs, & special teams.

--His defensive coordinator says Peppers is one of the smartest player he's ever coached. He added that Peppers could have been asked to cover a different assignment on any given play, and thus, Peppers had (at some point) played "every" position on defense.

--He's a rock-solid tackler (a lost art).

you guys are warming me up some to Peppers and i kind of hate you for it :lol:

[teegre]

you guys are warming me up some to Peppers and i kind of hate you for it :lol:

:applaudit: