Which QB Would You Take?

[DesertSteel]

If, a big if, any of the three QBs were available at #30, which one do you think the Steelers should not pass on?

1. DeShone Kizer, Notre Dame
2. Deshaun Watson, Clemson
3. Mitch Trubisky, North Carolina
4. None

[BurghBoy412]

Watson

[Buckinnuts]

webb

[Shoes]

I voted none, the Steeler should not take a QB in this draft.

[BurghBoy412]

No love for Mahomes?

[DesertSteel]

webb
I'm pretty sure that Webb can be had in the 2nd.

- - - Updated - - -


No love for Mahomes?

I didn't add him because he will probably already be there at 30.

[steelreserve]

None, this is shitty year for quarterbacks. And the desperation over elite passers has gotten so hyped up that someone is going to try to force it, so all three of those guys will be gone.

This is a prime example of a year where if you have a top-5 pick, you are better off trading it or using it for another building block, and trying to get a QB some other way. Or just accepting the fact that there are no good QBs and suffering it through it for a year while you try to improve with your own second-tier guy and test out whatever random 4th-rounder you want to take a flyer on.

[DesertSteel]

None, this is shitty year for quarterbacks. And the desperation over elite passers has gotten so hyped up that someone is going to try to force it, so all three of those guys will be gone.

This is a prime example of a year where if you have a top-5 pick, you are better off trading it or using it for another building block, and trying to get a QB some other way. Or just accepting the fact that there are no good QBs and suffering it through it for a year while you try to improve with your own second-tier guy and test out whatever random 4th-rounder you want to take a flyer on.
I agree that none of the top 3 are worthy of a top 10 pick. Pick 30 may be a different story. I like Watson of the three, as long as he has a couple years to adjust and learn.

[Dwinsgames]

Other ... Mahomes and to be honest for me its not really all that close ..

strongest arm in draft , can make all the throws , doesn't panic when things go south , can run a bit to make a few yards if things break down , has the " IT " factor ....

[86WARD]

Mahomes

[st33lersguy]

None, I'd say there would be better value in drafting defense in round 1 and waiting to draft someone like Webb, Peterman, or Kaaya later

[BurghBoy412]

I agree that none of the top 3 are worthy of a top 10 pick. Pick 30 may be a different story. I like Watson of the three, as long as he has a couple years to adjust and learn.
I concur

[Dwinsgames]

None, I'd say there would be better value in drafting defense in round 1 and waiting to draft someone like Webb, Peterman, or Kaaya later


honestly I do not see any of those guys as the answer in a scenario where Ben hangs them up say next season ( playing devils advocate here ) and if that is in fact the case next year you find yourself spending another pick to address the same situation so why spend one at all now if not going after one early ..

looking at it as if Ben is retiring because of two factors .

A) his words on evaluating his future and if he will play in 2017 or beyond
B) the team seemingly going to every work out the main QBs in this draft are having and assuming it means they know more than is being reported on Bens state of mind in terms to his future beyond this season

one could argue we could wait till next year with a presumably better QB class ( but that is debatable as you never know what you are getting till you get him )
but bear in mind getting a guy next year and if ben is done your forcing him into a role he may not be ready for where as my mindset has always been get the guy before you need him and teach him your way of doing things and let him learn if at all possible prior to trial by fire ..

sure Trial by fire worked out ok for Ben but that is usually not the case as there is just so much to learn about the pro game and the speed itself is a steep learning curve without the complexities of the playbook and new system and don't get me started about proset because the fact of the matter is you just do not find that many QBs in college working in a prostyle offense so yet another learning curve in the most basic of concepts

[BurghBoy412]

I'm predicting Watson has a fantastic NFL carrer.

[teegre]

honestly I do not see any of those guys as the answer in a scenario where Ben hangs them up say next season

.....

because the fact of the matter is you just do not find that many QBs in college working in a prostyle offense so yet another learning curve in the most basic of concepts

You make some valid points.

On the flip side, I experienced this same debate in 2003... when Steelers fans felt that we "had" to take Kyle Boller. :scared: I was of the opinion that we should wait until the 2004 draft, which had a far better crop of QBs.


Fast-forward to this discussion...
I agree with Shoes and st33lerguy: I would rather wait and draft one of the QBs from next year's crop.

[DesertSteel]

On the flip side, I experienced this same debate in 2003... when Steelers fans felt that we "had" to take Kyle Boller. :scared: I was of the opinion that we should wait until the 2004 draft, which had a far better crop of QBs.

When are you going to admit that you were wrong on that one? :wink02::wink02::wink02::wink02::wink02::wink02:

[pczach]

If the team does take a quarterback this year, I am hoping it is later in the draft.

A guy that I can understand them taking a look at if he drops far enough is Brad Kaaya from Miami. By all accounts, he is a talented young quarterback that should have gone back to school for another year to develop. He is inconsistent, he makes mistakes, and he makes incredible throws.

He has the look of a guy that hasn't truly maxed out on his talent and he needs to work on several aspects of his game. He does show flashes of brilliance and arm talent that needs to be developed. The perfect place may be spending two or three years in an apprenticeship behind Ben Roethlisberger. There would be no rush to push him to the field, and he would be able to work on his craft without the pressures that destroy so many young quarterbacks.

Kaaya or Chad Kelly would make the most sense to me in this draft based on the possible ceiling of both players and the round you may be able to get them in.

Most of the stuff I'm hearing has Kaaya going from rounds 3-4. If he fell to the fourth round, I think he's a guy the Steelers would have to consider if they are thinking about drafting a quarterback and he falls far enough to make it worthwhile.

Kelly is another guy that has physical talent but has been a bonehead off the field. If they believe that his immaturity can be overcome and his talent is great enough, he could be a late round pickup.

With how close this team is to winning a championship and the needs they still have, only a late round quarterback would make sense to me. These two seem to make the most sense from a talent and risk/reward standpoint.

[Dwinsgames]

You make some valid points.

On the flip side, I experienced this same debate in 2003... when Steelers fans felt that we "had" to take Kyle Boller. :scared: I was of the opinion that we should wait until the 2004 draft, which had a far better crop of QBs.


Fast-forward to this discussion...
I agree with Shoes and st33lerguy: I would rather wait and draft one of the QBs from next year's crop.

to many people bought into Bollers throwing off one knee stunt to realize he lacked the necessary tools when on 2 feet , that being said I would have zero issue taking Mahomes if I knew Bens intent was this year or bust for SB and I have a sneaking suspicion that is what we are going to get ( at least some signs point towards that ) but respect both lines of logic albeit prefer having as said above a guy in place rather than a guy forced into a role he is not ready for

[steelreserve]

I agree that none of the top 3 are worthy of a top 10 pick. Pick 30 may be a different story. I like Watson of the three, as long as he has a couple years to adjust and learn.

If I had to draft a QB this year, it'd be Watson - but a lot of other teams have probably come to the same conclusion and some of them DO need a quarterback. So out of the three, he's probably the one most likely to be gone.

I don't think that, when you're a couple pieces away from competing for a championship, pick #30 is where you ought to be looking for someone who might eventually take over at QB in the future. We have a QB for at least another season or two, but not much longer. That pick should be used on another impact player, probably a defender, that might contribute to getting us over that hump while we still have the chance. After Ben retires, all bets are off, whether we drafted a "successor" or not. We want to look for one now, we should do it with a low round pick with the tempered expectation that it's maybe a 1-in-10 chance.

[Born2Steel]

Is it more important to get a replacement for Ben or James in this draft?

[Dwinsgames]

Is it more important to get a replacement for Ben or James in this draft?

depends on if ben is going to be here next year or not and I do not feel like its an either or situation ....

if the best 3-4 pass rushers are gone and same with corners I would take a QB over a S I think

[steelreserve]

Is it more important to get a replacement for Ben or James in this draft?

There probably is no replacement for Ben in this draft, so that takes that right out of the equation. If anything, we'd want a pass rusher, which I guess this class is OK at, but more likely the best players on the board will be DBs of various shapes and sizes.

[DesertSteel]

I'll be happy with Chad Kelly in round 5. Potential wise, I'd put him up there with the top 3.

[BurghBoy412]

Hopefully they'll find the closest thing to a Kordell Stewart clone and take him. The higher the better IMO😁😁😁

[Born2Steel]

Hopefully they'll find the closest thing to a Kordell Stewart clone and take him. The higher the better IMO

I think they're calling him Jabrill Peppers this year. Instead of 'Slash', he's the 'Swiss Army Knife'.

[teegre]

I think they're calling him Jabrill Peppers this year. Instead of 'Slash', he's the 'Swiss Army Knife'.

...and, he's probably just as accurate as Kordell.

[BurghBoy412]

...and, he's probably just as accurate as Kordell.
Man we wasted some good teams with Kordell🤔

[Dwinsgames]

Man we wasted some good teams with Kordell樂

we did indeed , but I still can not help but think had they not square hole round pegged the kid and tried to force him into being something he was not ( a pocket passer ) and let him play his style of game with roll outs / read option kind of stuff we may have a more favorable opinion of him ... but I digress because its an unprovable theory

[teegre]

to many people bought into Bollers throwing off one knee stunt to realize he lacked the necessary tools when on 2 feet , that being said I would have zero issue taking Mahomes if I knew Bens intent was this year or bust for SB and I have a sneaking suspicion that is what we are going to get ( at least some signs point towards that ) but respect both lines of logic albeit prefer having as said above a guy in place rather than a guy forced into a role he is not ready for

Agreed. If one thinks that a QB in this draft is "the guy", then a year of tutorage would be better than starting a rookie.


IMO, in the 2018 draft, I think that Josh Rosen slides to 32 ( :wink02: ). Teams will be leery of his shoulder injury (justifiably so). It will be like Brees vs. Culpepper, part II... and, some lucky team will be set for the next fifteen years.

[DesertSteel]

Man we wasted some good teams with Kordell樂
That one 20/10 season gave us all so much false hope.

He could've been a great receiver though.

[Born2Steel]

IMO, worst case, we take Kelly with our 6th, and grab another early round QB next season. We upgrade the backup with Kelly, potential to be great, AND get a 'quality' starter in 2018 for when Ben retires. Both could work out which gives us a 2 great QBs(best case), and/or a viable backup(worst case). If we end up with 'both', that equals great trade value. 1st overall pick in the 2019/2020 draft type value. the draft is a gamble anyway. Gamble on the bigger payout.

[WCSteeler]

I realize that people on this forum haven't got much love for this year crop of rookie QBs but it seems like fans are sticking their heads in the sand regarding Bens consideration of retirement and the very last thing the organization needs to do is wait till Ben retires and pick someone in the following draft to replace him. Honestly what's wrong with using a 2nd round pick on a QB? Nothing, Mahomes,Peterman,Kaaya will be available early 2nd round and the draft is stacked with defensive players so take use 1st and both 3rd picks to help the defense.

[Born2Steel]

I realize that people on this forum haven't got much love for this year crop of rookie QBs but it seems like fans are sticking their heads in the sand regarding Bens consideration of retirement and the very last thing the organization needs to do is wait till Ben retires and pick someone in the following draft to replace him. Honestly what's wrong with using a 2nd round pick on a QB? Nothing, Mahomes,Peterman,Kaaya will be available early 2nd round and the draft is stacked with defensive players so take use 1st and both 3rd picks to help the defense.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000795224/article/tomlin-steelers-prepping-for-life-after-roethlisberger

[WCSteeler]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000795224/article/tomlin-steelers-prepping-for-life-after-roethlisberger

Thanks, I tried to get this link up as well

[DesertSteel]

I think they'll do their due diligence and either go for a QB in the 2nd if one drops, or take one late (5-7) that is a boom or bust type.

[Born2Steel]

I think that IF Mahomes is there at 30, that's the pick. If not, possibly 5-7 like you say.

[teegre]

it seems like fans are sticking their heads in the sand regarding Bens consideration of retirement

It's not that we don't see the writing on the wall, it's that we don't want to rush into Kyle Boller, when we could wait (and bear a small slump) in order to get Eli Manning/Big Ben/Philip Rivers.

As in: delayed gratification

[Mojouw]

For me, there are two and only two guys I look at.

1. Mahomes. He beat out Webb and he has a stronger and more accurate arm then anyone else that is going to be around at 30. Seriously, watch him throw the deep ball and imagine him in Haley's offense. Completed north of 60+ % of his passes - the only consistent marker of NFL potential. Fine, it is a gimmick offense and he is a system guy. That was the knock on Aaron Rodgers also. Who fell to where in the draft? 25th and selected by a team with an existing franchise guy. Got time to learn an NFL offense, refine his mechanics, etc. See where this is going?

2. Chad Kelly. I think he is likely to implode in the NFL. But he has the accuracy (over 60% in a big-time college conference) and the arm to make any throw in the NFL. But I think his emotional issues and his tendency to crumble against a big-time pass rush are serious hurdles. But a 6th round cost for a 1st round arm? I will take that gamble every single draft class until it works.

Every single other prospect seems (to me) to have a terminal flaw.

Kizer is super over rated because he has the "tools" but he doesn't make decisions fast enough and he is inaccurate.
Peterman doesn't have the arm
Kaaya had some success when he had a wealth of talent around him (freshman year) then tailed off after that. Would be okay with a late-round flier but feels like Landry Jones 2.0
Webb is Jared Goff but not as good. That doesn't seem interesting.

The list just gets worse from there.

[BurghBoy412]

Mahomes in the 1st I'm ok with that.

[teegre]

Completed north of 60+ % of his passes - the only consistent marker of NFL potential.

Bingo!!!

[WCSteeler]

It's not that we don't see the writing on the wall, it's that we don't want to rush into Kyle Boller, when we could wait (and bear a small slump) in order to get Eli Manning/Big Ben/Philip Rivers.

As in: delayed gratification

I understand and appreciate your point but see things a little differently. This draft is a "weak qb" draft but when you look at all the projected stud qbs in the last 5 years what do you come up with? Not much. My point is I don't trust the talking heads to tell us who's hot or not, I'm not sure what to expect but what I do know is we have a 35 year old QB who is contemplating retirement,who's been through several injuries and plays mediocre on the road. I'm not closing the book on Ben's career but we're probably reading the last pages.

[teegre]

I understand and appreciate your point but see things a little differently. This draft is a "weak qb" draft but when you look at all the projected stud qbs in the last 5 years what do you come up with? Not much. My point is I don't trust the talking heads to tell us who's hot or not, I'm not sure what to expect but what I do know is we have a 35 year old QB who is contemplating retirement,who's been through several injuries and plays mediocre on the road. I'm not closing the book on Ben's career but we're probably reading the last pages.

You make a good point: maybe Mahomes (for example) is/will be better than the QBs in 2018 (who really knows???).


Maybe I'm also a tad biased towards PAC-12 QBs: Darnold, Rosen, Falk... even Browning.

[Steeldude]

There really isn't a QB worth taking in the first 5 rounds.

[Born2Steel]

I understand and appreciate your point but see things a little differently. This draft is a "weak qb" draft but when you look at all the projected stud qbs in the last 5 years what do you come up with? Not much. My point is I don't trust the talking heads to tell us who's hot or not, I'm not sure what to expect but what I do know is we have a 35 year old QB who is contemplating retirement,who's been through several injuries and plays mediocre on the road. I'm not closing the book on Ben's career but we're probably reading the last pages.

Hypothetically, say we know for certain this will be Ben's last season. In that scenario, I'm taking my highest rated QB of this draft at 30. Whoever that may be. Because, going forward, that QB is now learning behind Landry Jones, not BB. Is there a QB in this draft that we know will be better than Jones in 2-3 years? We are not replacing BB with a guy from this class. Not by any film, tape, footage, replay, etc, that I have seen on these guys. But we MUST upgrade from Jones. (And we come full circle)

[Steeldude]

Mahomes in the 1st I'm ok with that.

Seriously? Using the first round pick on a QB project who will most likely be a bench-warming journeyman? Maybe in round 6.

[BurghBoy412]

Seriously? Using the first round pick on a QB project who will most likely be a bench-warming journeyman? Maybe in round 6.
100% serious

[Born2Steel]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000795988/article/nfl-teams-possibly-targeting-qb-successors-in-draft

[Mojouw]

If Mahomes didn't play for Texas tech and was in a more "standard" offense, he would go #1. NFL scouting is a crapshoot at best and they are crazy biased when it comes to QBs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BurghBoy412]

If you make all the teams that draft ahead of you believe that you covet a QB and they are on the fence about who to draft. You may force their hand on the QB and the player you really desire stays on the board. You can't read anything into interviews, visits, etc... The front offices are playing a game of chess as well as the players on the field.

[Born2Steel]

IMO, the QB with the highest floor is Peterman. The QB with the highest ceiling is Mahomes. After those 2 Chad Kelly is the only one that intrigues me.

[Psycho Ward 86]

All i want to know is why Webb and Mahomes arent on this poll

[Born2Steel]

All i want to know is why Webb and Mahomes arent on this poll


Explain to me the hype on Davis Webb. *I have not watched any of his games*. But, everything I read on him is a powerful arm with very little accuracy downfield. That his completion totals are mostly within 10 yards of the LOS. The reason he lost his job to Mahomes at TT is due to inaccurate throws beyond those 10 yards. I can't understand why he's ranked as highly as he is.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Explain to me the hype on Davis Webb. *I have not watched any of his games*. But, everything I read on him is a powerful arm with very little accuracy downfield. That his completion totals are mostly within 10 yards of the LOS. The reason he lost his job to Mahomes at TT is due to inaccurate throws beyond those 10 yards. I can't understand why he's ranked as highly as he is.

Id rather not explain that because I disagree with the hype. I just think its strange to have a poll on which possible 1st-round QB to take and there are 2 that are clearly ommitted

[DesertSteel]

Id rather not explain that because I disagree with the hype. I just think its strange to have a poll on which possible 1st-round QB to take and there are 2 that are clearly ommitted
Because the poll is not just about 1st round, it's about QBs who may drop in the first round. The two you are referring to may climb into the first, but that wouldn't be dropping, would it?

[Psycho Ward 86]

Because the poll is not just about 1st round, it's about QBs who may drop in the first round. The two you are referring to may climb into the first, but that wouldn't be dropping, would it?

strong matter of opinion considering Webb has been considered 1st round caliber by a double digit number of teams. Last I checked we pick at #30 which by default puts Webb squarely in the territory of several teams in front of us. Mahomes has seen his stock rise rapidly in the past couple months as well, all the way up into 1st round territory. Its not like there are a lot of teams picking behind us in the 1st round

[Dwinsgames]

Pete Prisco‏Verified account @PriscoCBS (https://twitter.com/PriscoCBS)









The more personnel guys I talked to at NFL Meetings, the more convinced I am Davis Webb is going in first round - higher than you think.

[DesertSteel]

strong matter of opinion considering Webb has been considered 1st round caliber by a double digit number of teams. Last I checked we pick at #30 which by default puts Webb squarely in the territory of several teams in front of us. Mahomes has seen his stock rise rapidly in the past couple months as well, all the way up into 1st round territory. Its not like there are a lot of teams picking behind us in the 1st round
I sure haven't seen that about Webb. Who's mocking him in the first? And more specifically the early-mid first where it would be considered a drop to be there at 30? Do you have some links?

I've seen Mahomes mocked at the end of the first, at best.

[Steeldude]

100% serious

You want to disregard serious positional needs to draft a low-rated QB project with the 1st pick?

[BurghBoy412]

It's not like we've lost a whole lineup worth of players and they need replacing. You're starting next season with the same team minus Timmons. I feel like his replacement can be found in the 2nd via Raekwon McMillan. Now we won't to act like QB isn't a "serious" need. Perhaps it is not. But what happen if 7 goes down? Is Landry leading this team to the promise land ? It may not be the deepest QB class ( which is why you would draft the position early), but I have to believe Pat Mahomes comes in and supplants Landry pretty quickly. I think we are underestimating how poor o the teams QB depth actually is at the present moment.

[Dwinsgames]

You want to disregard serious positional needs to draft a low-rated QB project with the 1st pick?


what team paid scout has said this ?

we hear talking heads ( that are consistently wrong make claims ) but those same talking heads didn't have Mahomes as a 1st rounder till a month ago now have Webb as one until a week ago but reports from the owners meetings have webb as a solid 1st rounder , is it smoke being blown in the lying season or is it fact ? IDK


what I do know is Mahomes has the best arm in this draft and if I am taking a chance on any QB in any draft I want the one with the best arm because I can not teach that , everything else is coachable same for any pos. give me the player with the unteachable skill set and I will coach him to be the player I desire ....

its better to own the unteachable skills than the more ready player who lacks those skills and will never be better than average because of it

[Mojouw]

what team paid scout has said this ?

we hear talking heads ( that are consistently wrong make claims ) but those same talking heads didn't have Mahomes as a 1st rounder till a month ago now have Webb as one until a week ago but reports from the owners meetings have webb as a solid 1st rounder , is it smoke being blown in the lying season or is it fact ? IDK


what I do know is Mahomes has the best arm in this draft and if I am taking a chance on any QB in any draft I want the one with the best arm because I can not teach that , everything else is coachable same for any pos. give me the player with the unteachable skill set and I will coach him to be the player I desire ....

its better to own the unteachable skills than the more ready player who lacks those skills and will never be better than average because of it

Yes! Here are two scouting reports from one of my favorite draft sites:

Mahomes: http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2017profiles/Patrick.Mahomes.htm

Peterman: http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2017profiles/Nathan.Peterman.htm

Assume the writer of those is correct (he may not be) but it points to something that is bubbling below the surface on this thread. Is this QB class really all that lacking in talent, or does it just lack "obvious" guys that look like what NFL scouts want for the position?

Peterman gets a ton of love in some draftnik/scouting circles because he is a pocket-passer with classic mechanics. But when I watch him I see Andy Dalton or a far less athletic Alex Smith. A guy that can make some throws, but can not challenge and NFL defense vertically and someone who has the total inability to escape pressure. Why would I want to draft that dude?

Mahomes, can do it all. He just doesn't know how to play the game at an NFL level mentally yet. Will he ever - no idea. But if he can do what he can do now by basically telling guys to run to towards the tree and cut left and I'll hit you. Then proceed to rifle the ball all over the damn place with no mechanics -- Imagine if he takes to coaching well?

[Dwinsgames]

Yes! Here are two scouting reports from one of my favorite draft sites:

Mahomes: http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2017profiles/Patrick.Mahomes.htm

Peterman: http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2017profiles/Nathan.Peterman.htm

Assume the writer of those is correct (he may not be) but it points to something that is bubbling below the surface on this thread. Is this QB class really all that lacking in talent, or does it just lack "obvious" guys that look like what NFL scouts want for the position?

Peterman gets a ton of love in some draftnik/scouting circles because he is a pocket-passer with classic mechanics. But when I watch him I see Andy Dalton or a far less athletic Alex Smith. A guy that can make some throws, but can not challenge and NFL defense vertically and someone who has the total inability to escape pressure. Why would I want to draft that dude?

Mahomes, can do it all. He just doesn't know how to play the game at an NFL level mentally yet. Will he ever - no idea. But if he can do what he can do now by basically telling guys to run to towards the tree and cut left and I'll hit you. Then proceed to rifle the ball all over the damn place with no mechanics -- Imagine if he takes to coaching well?

insert Big Bens name where it says Mahomes in the bold and that is a statement I read far to many times to count back in the day ....

[Born2Steel]

Yes! Here are two scouting reports from one of my favorite draft sites:

Mahomes: http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2017profiles/Patrick.Mahomes.htm

Peterman: http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2017profiles/Nathan.Peterman.htm

Assume the writer of those is correct (he may not be) but it points to something that is bubbling below the surface on this thread. Is this QB class really all that lacking in talent, or does it just lack "obvious" guys that look like what NFL scouts want for the position?

Peterman gets a ton of love in some draftnik/scouting circles because he is a pocket-passer with classic mechanics. But when I watch him I see Andy Dalton or a far less athletic Alex Smith. A guy that can make some throws, but can not challenge and NFL defense vertically and someone who has the total inability to escape pressure. Why would I want to draft that dude?

Mahomes, can do it all. He just doesn't know how to play the game at an NFL level mentally yet. Will he ever - no idea. But if he can do what he can do now by basically telling guys to run to towards the tree and cut left and I'll hit you. Then proceed to rifle the ball all over the damn place with no mechanics -- Imagine if he takes to coaching well?

If that's the case, it's Mahomes at 30, or Kelly in the comp3rd/4th? We need to take one or the other.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I sure haven't seen that about Webb. Who's mocking him in the first? And more specifically the early-mid first where it would be considered a drop to be there at 30? Do you have some links?

I've seen Mahomes mocked at the end of the first, at best.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000795097/article/cals-davis-webb-nfl-teams-telling-me-im-firstround-talent

"teams totaling in the double digits have told him he's a first round talent"

"It's more common for a QB to go higher than his grade calls for due to the value teams place in the position"

"A personnel executive told analyst Daniel Jeremiah last month that Webb will be the best QB in the 2017 class"

32 - 10 = 22. 30-22 = 8. 8, as in there are no fewer than 8 teams that draft in front of us that think Webb is a 1st round draftable player. That would make his selection a potential drop. A drop is relative, but when you have that many teams vouching for him, i think its fair to say it could potentially be called as much. Players who aren't mocked in the 1st round at all are picked all the time. If I told people Patrick Ramsey was a 1st round pick there's a strong chance the average football fan would be surprised or would have thought he was picked later. In a decade or 2 there's a good chance that people will be surprised that Teddy Bridgewater, Tim Tebow, etc. were first round picks too because to them their hindsight would tell them that the writing was on the wall that they werent anything special. Hell, Artie Burns was a wicked curveball to damn near everyone. I saw him mocked once in the 1st round by Casserly I believe it was but id be surprised if anyone found in anywhere around there aside from that. A lot of pundits and teams had draft grades on Artie Burns going down to the 3rd round, and others according to Mayock that think he's the best cornerback in last years draft (yup, that includes Jalen Ramsey).

Don't see media pundits mocking him in the first but clearly a lot of teams in the NFL beg to differ. There's always a few polarizing players in terms of draft value

[DesertSteel]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000795097/article/cals-davis-webb-nfl-teams-telling-me-im-firstround-talent

"teams totaling in the double digits have told him he's a first round talent"

"It's more common for a QB to go higher than his grade calls for due to the value teams place in the position"

"A personnel executive told analyst Daniel Jeremiah last month that Webb will be the best QB in the 2017 class"

32 - 10 = 22. 30-22 = 8. 8, as in there are no fewer than 8 teams that draft in front of us that think Webb is a 1st round draftable player. That would make his selection a potential drop. A drop is relative, but when you have that many teams vouching for him, i think its fair to say it could potentially be called as much. Players who aren't mocked in the 1st round at all are picked all the time. If I told people Patrick Ramsey was a 1st round pick there's a strong chance the average football fan would be surprised or would have thought he was picked later. In a decade or 2 there's a good chance that people will be surprised that Teddy Bridgewater, Tim Tebow, etc. were first round picks too because to them their hindsight would tell them that the writing was on the wall that they werent anything special. Hell, Artie Burns was a wicked curveball to damn near everyone. I saw him mocked once in the 1st round by Casserly I believe it was but id be surprised if anyone found in anywhere around there aside from that. A lot of pundits and teams had draft grades on Artie Burns going down to the 3rd round, and others according to Mayock that think he's the best cornerback in last years draft (yup, that includes Jalen Ramsey).

Don't see media pundits mocking him in the first but clearly a lot of teams in the NFL beg to differ. There's always a few polarizing players in terms of draft value

Really that's nothing more than talk. So and so said. I bet none of those "double digit teams" take him when it's their turn. There's now way that Webb goes R1. I'll be happy to eat crow if he does.

[Born2Steel]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000797214/article/ole-miss-pro-day-chad-kelly-misses-chance-to-impress

[LLT]

Out of those four I would take Trubisky. However....I would take Mahomes if available at the bottom of the 1st round.

[Dwinsgames]

I am not a happy camper about planning for a future without Ben at the helm but I sure would be a whole lot unhappier if we did not plan for that future without Ben and had a 20+ year drought between Franchise starters .

that being said the time to draft a 1st round QB is when a 1st round quality QB presents itself and if Mahomes is there you got to take him

if that means packaging some later round picks together to move back into the end of the 3rd to middle of the 4th to get another piece and limit the end of your draft ( guys who normally do not make the team anyways) so be it we can make up our practice squad with higher signing bonus's to guys who did not make final cuts elsewhere

[DesertSteel]

I am not a happy camper about planning for a future without Ben at the helm but I sure would be a whole lot unhappier if we did not plan for that future without Ben and had a 20+ year drought between Franchise starters .

that being said the time to draft a 1st round QB is when a 1st round quality QB presents itself and if Mahomes is there you got to take him

if that means packaging some later round picks together to move back into the end of the 3rd to middle of the 4th to get another piece and limit the end of your draft ( guys who normally do not make the team anyways) so be it we can make up our practice squad with higher signing bonus's to guys who did not make final cuts elsewhere
So you aren't proposing to move up to take Mahomes earlier in the first, right? You are proposing that we take Mahomes at 30 and then try to backfill day 2 talent by packaging some day 3 picks. Am I right? I think that would be a good plan.

[Dwinsgames]

So you aren't proposing to move up to take Mahomes earlier in the first, right? You are proposing that we take Mahomes at 30 and then try to backfill day 2 talent by packaging some day 3 picks. Am I right? I think that would be a good plan.

that is exactly what I would try to do if I where calling the shots

if I could have 5 picks in the first 150 PLUS Mahomes ...

I think I could address our needs pretty well and still have a QB of the future in house learning under Big Ben

[pczach]

So you aren't proposing to move up to take Mahomes earlier in the first, right? You are proposing that we take Mahomes at 30 and then try to backfill day 2 talent by packaging some day 3 picks. Am I right? I think that would be a good plan.

I know they never do it, but if Mahomes is still available and quarterbacks are falling in the draft, do they try to trade down a few picks, to pick up an additional later pick and then are still able to snag Mahomes very early in the second and use the additional pick in a deep draft class at positions of need?

If they were going to take him, that would be the best case scenario. You still get the quarterback you like and you actually still get the same number of draft picks to fill the rest of the roster. It then gives them the ammo to move up to snag players they love with the remaining picks.

[86WARD]

Mahomes won't make it past the Giants so if Pittsburgh wants him, they are going to have to jump New York.

[DesertSteel]

that is exactly what I would try to do if I where calling the shots

if I could have 5 picks in the first 150 PLUS Mahomes ...

I think I could address our needs pretty well and still have a QB of the future in house learning under Big Ben
Yeah I'm not sure why teams treat 7th round picks like they are worth gold.

[Dwinsgames]

Yeah I'm not sure why teams treat 7th round picks like they are worth gold.

they are lottery tickets , you don't just throw them away until you see if they are a winner or not , sure your faith in them is lacking but there is always a chance

[DesertSteel]

they are lottery tickets , you don't just throw them away until you see if they are a winner or not , sure your faith in them is lacking but there is always a chance
Team A: "I'll trade you my pro bowl DT for your 7th"
Team B: "No way! I need your pro bowl DT AND your 7th too"

[st33lersguy]

This is a deep draft class, I would rather not give away picks for a big 12 system QB

[Craic]

Mahomes won't make it past the Giants so if Pittsburgh wants him, they are going to have to jump New York.
It'd take our third and fifth paired with our first to move up to Miami's position ahead of the Giants. Or, another such combination, such as our first and second while getting Miamis' third round compensatory pick. That would leave us with three third round pics, which we could bundle and jump back into the low mid second round, or trade two of to jump into the high third round.

I'm starting to like the idea of trading our first and second for Miami's first and third (compensatory). That way, we get Mahome in the first, and either a LB/CB in the low middle second, or a TE in the third. Heck if TEs start falling, we could get all three, and I'd be happy with that.

[BurghBoy412]

Mahomes won't make it past the Giants so if Pittsburgh wants him, they are going to have to jump New York.
Is there evidence to support this or is this just speculation? The Giants also need an RB1. 29th in running last year. This article gives a good breakdown of the Giants needs. It's. Lot more than QB of the future http://www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL/2017/04/04/2017-NFL-Draft-New-York-Giants-Top-needs-suggested-picks-current-outlook/9661491320943/

[BurghBoy412]

Is there evidence to support this or is this just speculation?
IMO the Giants really need a RB1 and A TE1

[86WARD]

It'd take our third and fifth paired with our first to move up to Miami's position ahead of the Giants. Or, another such combination, such as our first and second while getting Miamis' third round compensatory pick. That would leave us with three third round pics, which we could bundle and jump back into the low mid second round, or trade two of to jump into the high third round.

I'm starting to like the idea of trading our first and second for Miami's first and third (compensatory). That way, we get Mahome in the first, and either a LB/CB in the low middle second, or a TE in the third. Heck if TEs start falling, we could get all three, and I'd be happy with that.

Of course there's no hard evidence, there never is during the draft season but there's been quite a few articles linking the two and several mocks that I have seen that have Mahomes going to the Giants. Makes total sense for them.

[DesertSteel]

This is a deep draft class, I would rather not give away picks for a big 12 system QB
There's a lot of credence to this statement. Mahomes played in a circus offense and the Big 12 plays no defense. He's talented but also a big risk. But at 30, the risk lowers. The good personnel people bat around .550 on R1 picks, so no matter what position and what player, there's nothing surefire.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm starting to like the idea of trading our first and second for Miami's first and third (compensatory). That way, we get Mahome in the first, and either a LB/CB in the low middle second, or a TE in the third. Heck if TEs start falling, we could get all three, and I'd be happy with that.I'm confused. If we trade our 1st and 2nd for Miami's 1st and 3rd how do we take anybody in the 2nd since we traded it?

[Born2Steel]

IMO the Giants really need a RB1 and A TE1

If the Giants get the threat of a run game to go with their WRs and their stacked D? Damn! Still, QB is a harder role to fill if they are taking one this draft.

[Craic]

Of course there's no hard evidence, there never is during the draft season but there's been quite a few articles linking the two and several mocks that I have seen that have Mahomes going to the Giants. Makes total sense for them.
True. I was just responding to another post. In thinking about it, however, Ben and Eli have the same number of years under their belt, so it's pretty likely. However, on the other hand, Eli Manning has started every game since 2004, and has remained pretty consistent on average since 2008, finishing last year with a QB rating of 86.0, which is still 2+ points higher than his career QB rating. Then, there's genetics to think about. Peyton played seventeen years, and in all but his last year, he was still effective (still was his last year, but he was struggling to make throws). His father played 13 years, but got crushed from a bad O line, getting sacked almost 10 percent of the time during his years with NO, and over 15 percent of the time in his time with Houston and Minnesota (by comparison, Eli is getting sacked 4.6 percent of the time and only once over 4.5 percent since 2009).

With that said, unless Eli is making noises behind the scene, I doubt we see him retire. In fact, with Odell Beckham and Marshall as his main targets, he has a good reason for returning. Of course, with Brad Wing and Antwon Blake on their roster, you can almost guarantee another SB now.


There's a lot of credence to this statement. Mahomes played in a circus offense and the Big 12 plays no defense. He's talented but also a big risk. But at 30, the risk lowers. The good personnel people bat around .550 on R1 picks, so no matter what position and what player, there's nothing surefire.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm confused. If we trade our 1st and 2nd for Miami's 1st and 3rd how do we take anybody in the 2nd since we traded it?

Because three third round picks (in my scenario, that'd be Miami's, ours, and our compensatory pick, which can now be traded) bundled are enough to move up into the low middle second round. Two third round picks bundled are enough to move into the high third round while keeping a low third round pick.

[Craic]

There's a lot of credence to this statement. Mahomes played in a circus offense and the Big 12 plays no defense. He's talented but also a big risk. But at 30, the risk lowers. The good personnel people bat around .550 on R1 picks, so no matter what position and what player, there's nothing surefire.

I honestly think that "circus offense" argument has lost much of its credence. It's based on the "spread offense" not preparing QBs for the pros. Sure, that may have been true five or ten years ago. But in 2014, 75% of all NFL dropbacks came out of the shotgun. As for the Steelers, Ben dropped back 75% of the time in 2014. Last season, NFL drop backs beginning in the shotgun wen tup to 78.9 percent.

Moreover, how often do you only see the Steelers passing out of a two WR formation? Normally, it's a three, and with the TE and RB, a four or five route play. Pretty much the same circus offense you see in college. The only difference, however, is that you're playing against a much better defense. On the other hand, as others have pointed out, Mahomes's passes were not passes that could have been easily picked off by a better DB. He was hitting back-shoulder throws, basket catches, and players in stride.

Personally, I think QBs should be judged individually, rather than by what conference they play in.

[st33lersguy]

There's a lot of credence to this statement. Mahomes played in a circus offense and the Big 12 plays no defense. He's talented but also a big risk. But at 30, the risk lowers. The good personnel people bat around .550 on R1 picks, so no matter what position and what player, there's nothing surefire.


What I was trying to say is that in this deep class, I would rather stand pat and take the best player on the board at a position of need than spend extra draft picks trading up for Mahomes like some are saying

[pczach]

I honestly think that "circus offense" argument has lost much of its credence. It's based on the "spread offense" not preparing QBs for the pros. Sure, that may have been true five or ten years ago. But in 2014, 75% of all NFL dropbacks came out of the shotgun. As for the Steelers, Ben dropped back 75% of the time in 2014. Last season, NFL drop backs beginning in the shotgun wen tup to 78.9 percent.

Moreover, how often do you only see the Steelers passing out of a two WR formation? Normally, it's a three, and with the TE and RB, a four or five route play. Pretty much the same circus offense you see in college. The only difference, however, is that you're playing against a much better defense. On the other hand, as others have pointed out, Mahomes's passes were not passes that could have been easily picked off by a better DB. He was hitting back-shoulder throws, basket catches, and players in stride.

Personally, I think QBs should be judged individually, rather than by what conference they play in.


The differences come when they run the spread and the read option. It makes the defense commit personnel to defend the handoff to the back and the quarterback. It also creates mismatches and forces defensive backs at times to pick receivers because they are outnumbered. In those systems, the quarterbacks have much easier reads and throws.

It's not a knock on the kid. It simply creates doubt as to how those quarterbacks are capable of playing in NFL offenses because they have never done such a huge part of the job description at the next level. If they can't put it on tape, it is simply a projection of someone's talent as opposed to seeing them actually do it. The interview process is huge because it is so important to figure out football IQ, work ethic, intellect, and dozens of other characteristics that they are never able to display in the offenses they have been operating in.

It just makes everything much, much harder to figure out, and the risk of making mistakes in evaluating quarterback talent skyrockets. Even if you have a bright kid, that doesn't mean that he will be able to process the information fast enough even when he fully understands the offense and all the reads and assignments. He may not be able to handle throws from the pocket with pressure in his face and keeping his eyes down the field. It's a whole new world from a football perspective. Some absorb everything quickly and make the adjustments relatively quickly. Some will never be able to master the new responsibilities and mental hurdles that will be put before them.

If the Steelers take a quarterback, we just have to hope that they get their evaluation of the kid right. They'll be doing things in ways that they have never done them before in their football lives.

[Craic]

The differences come when they run the spread and the read option. It makes the defense commit personnel to defend the handoff to the back and the quarterback. It also creates mismatches and forces defensive backs at times to pick receivers because they are outnumbered. In those systems, the quarterbacks have much easier reads and throws.

It's not a knock on the kid. It simply creates doubt as to how those quarterbacks are capable of playing in NFL offenses because they have never done such a huge part of the job description at the next level. If they can't put it on tape, it is simply a projection of someone's talent as opposed to seeing them actually do it. The interview process is huge because it is so important to figure out football IQ, work ethic, intellect, and dozens of other characteristics that they are never able to display in the offenses they have been operating in.

It just makes everything much, much harder to figure out, and the risk of making mistakes in evaluating quarterback talent skyrockets. Even if you have a bright kid, that doesn't mean that he will be able to process the information fast enough even when he fully understands the offense and all the reads and assignments. He may not be able to handle throws from the pocket with pressure in his face and keeping his eyes down the field. It's a whole new world from a football perspective. Some absorb everything quickly and make the adjustments relatively quickly. Some will never be able to master the new responsibilities and mental hurdles that will be put before them.

If the Steelers take a quarterback, we just have to hope that they get their evaluation of the kid right. They'll be doing things in ways that they have never done them before in their football lives.
Fair enough.

Of course, if what we're hearing is correct, Mahome is changing calls on the line already, which shows a mental acuity already (again, if what we're hearing is correct). My one big concern for him isn't that, however. As I said before, there's times where I feel he just locks onto a receiver. Of course, if the guy is covered, he goes through progressions, and looks to do it well.

[BurghBoy412]

If the Giants get the threat of a run game to go with their WRs and their stacked D? Damn! Still, QB is a harder role to fill if they are taking one this draft.

Listened to a podcast this morning and according to the scout they had on, he thinks Mahomes will go at 11 to the Saints. He was saying Mahomes strength​s would fit really well in Payton's system. I agreed with him.

[Born2Steel]

Listened to a podcast this morning and according to the scout they had on, he thinks Mahomes will go at 11 to the Saints. He was saying Mahomes strength​s would fit really well in Payton's system. I agreed with him.

Saints have 2 1st round picks so maybe that makes more sense than other teams. Mahomes at 11 and best of edge, DB, WR, ILB, whatever at 32. I could see that.

[BurghBoy412]

Saints have 2 1st round picks so maybe that makes more sense than other teams. Mahomes at 11 and best of edge, DB, WR, ILB, whatever at 32. I could see that.
At this point its all about how much teams value these guys. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. The way I see it right now I'll take just about any guy I've seen mocked to us except TJ Watt. IMO he is highly overvalued.

[DesertSteel]

I honestly think that "circus offense" argument has lost much of its credence. It's based on the "spread offense" not preparing QBs for the pros. Sure, that may have been true five or ten years ago. But in 2014, 75% of all NFL dropbacks came out of the shotgun. As for the Steelers, Ben dropped back 75% of the time in 2014. Last season, NFL drop backs beginning in the shotgun wen tup to 78.9 percent.

Moreover, how often do you only see the Steelers passing out of a two WR formation? Normally, it's a three, and with the TE and RB, a four or five route play. Pretty much the same circus offense you see in college. The only difference, however, is that you're playing against a much better defense. On the other hand, as others have pointed out, Mahomes's passes were not passes that could have been easily picked off by a better DB. He was hitting back-shoulder throws, basket catches, and players in stride.

Personally, I think QBs should be judged individually, rather than by what conference they play in.

I can guarantee you that the talent evaluators whose paychecks are on the line are concerned about the type of offense he is coming out of. I don't think it's just the shotgun scenario. There's not much post snap reads in that offense and there are tons of post snap reads for an NFL QB. I think that is the biggest concern.

That said, my choice would be TJ Watt and if he's gone, Mahomes.

[pczach]

Fair enough.

Of course, if what we're hearing is correct, Mahome is changing calls on the line already, which shows a mental acuity already (again, if what we're hearing is correct). My one big concern for him isn't that, however. As I said before, there's times where I feel he just locks onto a receiver. Of course, if the guy is covered, he goes through progressions, and looks to do it well.


Yes. If the information we're hearing about him calling audibles, protections, and signaling all plays and assignments without the help of the sideline, it shows that he has another dimension of understanding that we didn't know about originally. It's not a complete game changer, but it is a very good sign about his ability to learn and implement information, while also having the understanding of reading defenses and pre-snap reads to give the offense the best chance to succeed.

It's definitely not a bad thing.

He will lock onto receivers. Most quarterbacks in those systems are able to know very quickly because of the simple reads and the defensive looks they force by formation. This is something he is going to have to learn once he gets to the NFL. He should already be working with a quarterback guru to give him a good explanation of what he will need to be able to do at the next level and be running him through drills trying to start the process of training his eyes.

Remember, there are guys that play under center in pro-style offenses that still struggle with this in the NFL. It's part of the reason why great NFL quarterbacks are so hard to find. It is a very unique skillset, and you really don't know what they're capable of until the speed of the game and the competition level changes.

[Craic]

Remember, there are guys that play under center in pro-style offenses that still struggle with this in the NFL. It's part of the reason why great NFL quarterbacks are so hard to find. It is a very unique skillset, and you really don't know what they're capable of until the speed of the game and the competition level changes.

And in all honesty, that is my complete point in this discussion. ::drink:

[Dwinsgames]

* With Ben Roethlisbergerhttp://www.steelers.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif (http://www.steelers.com/team/roster/ben-roethlisberger/54dda34e-9e43-4c57-9397-1143ddced5d6/) having cast some doubt in the immediate aftermath of last January’s AFC Championship Game loss with regard to how long he is interested in continuing to be the team’s franchise quarterback, Steelers fans have started guzzling this Kool-Aid by the gallon.

* As they drink it, they have visions of Tom Brady and Marc Bulger and Dak Prescott dancing in their heads, but history shows what their favorite football team is more likely to end up with, should it pursue a quarterback at any point during the third day of an NFL Draft, is Spergon Wynn or Ingle Martin or Kliff Kingsberry. Or Tee Martin.

* Starting with the 1998 NFL Draft that offered up Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf as the first two picks – to Indianapolis and San Diego, respectively – there have been 128 quarterbacks picked in Rounds 4-7 in the 19 NFL Drafts leading up to the 2017 version of what officially is known at NFL headquarters as the Annual Selection Meeting.

* Of those 128, only five deserve to be recognized as legitimate NFL starting quarterbacks: Matt Hasselbeck, a fifth-round pick in 1998; Bulger and Brady, both sixth-round picks in 2000; Kirk Cousins, a fourth-round pick in 2012; and Prescott, a fourth-round pick in 2016. Of those five, only two – Bulger and Brady – deserve to be recognized as franchise quarterbacks.

full article here http://www.steelers.com/news/labriola-on/article-1/Labriola-on-drafting-the-next-franchise-QB/c2593127-de49-4f0f-9abc-41dc8e1426c7

[DesertSteel]

Bulger a franchise QB? I'd put Hasslebeck above him. He threw almost twice as many TDs.

[Dwinsgames]

Bulger a franchise QB? I'd put Hasslebeck above him. He threw almost twice as many TDs.

Bulger was a highly thought of player , would have probably had better stats than Hasselbeck but was stuck behind Warner for a few to many years and injuries killed his career much like Trent Green

[Mojouw]

Bulger was a highly thought of player , would have probably had better stats than Hasselbeck but was stuck behind Warner for a few to many years and injuries killed his career much like Trent Green

Yeah. I would do cartwheels if some guy drafted in the 5th round turned out to be Bulger good!

[Steelersfan]

RD #1 - If he is there at #30 = Mahomes nobody else I'd want there even if no other QB are of the board.
RD #2 - 4ish - Kaaya I think is the best middle rounder out there.
RD #5ish - our last pick - The Baylor QB Russell - If your wanting to take chances on a QB this year, why not add to your team early rounds and use one of your last picks trying to hit it big on a late round "dark horse" QB.

[DesertSteel]

If we go late I'd rather them take a flyer on Kelly. Most 6-7th rounders get cut anyway.

[Six Rings]

If, a big if, any of the three QBs were available at #30, which one do you think the Steelers should not pass on?

1. DeShone Kizer, Notre Dame
2. Deshaun Watson, Clemson
3. Mitch Trubisky, North Carolina
4. None

That would take inside knowdgle if Ben wants to come back for 2018.

My short answer is none of them. Trubisky has the best upside, but he need at least a year to develop. Watson to me is more of a grade two type of talent. Kizer will bust.

One guy I like for round two or three is Davis Webb.

[Dwinsgames]

That would take inside knowdgle if Ben wants to come back for 2018.

My short answer is none of them. Trubisky has the best upside, but he need at least a year to develop. Watson to me is more of a grade two type of talent. Kizer will bust.

One guy I like for round two or three is Davis Webb.

Remember Webb is the guy that Mahomes beat out and took the job from at Texas Tech ( so he transferred to get on the field )

[Six Rings]

Remember Webb is the guy that Mahomes beat out and took the job from at Texas Tech ( so he transferred to get on the field )


Correct! Webb look good at the senior bowl week. He's got a good arm, some escape ability, and upside left to fill. He's better than Landy Jones, and would give the Steelers a prospect to explore until Ben retires.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Not gonna lie, all the rigorous explanation and film around this board had me warmed up to the idea of picking Mahomes in the 1st round. But then I saw this article: http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/4/10/15221934/nfl-draft-2017-quarterbacks-patrick-mahomes-davis-webb-air-raid-quarterbacks

Look at this list of QB's of significance. Out of the 20 listed, literally only 1 of them made it through more than 2 seasons worth of starts. That QB was (drumroll please) Tim Couch. Thats not the kind of good fortune I want to hear. The 2nd most starts by a air raid QB on the list is Geno Smith. According to the article, the average career passer rating for active QB's with 500+ attempts is also 83.3. The only QB on the entire list thats above that mark is Nick Foles. Theres many more nuggets of information similiar to along those lines. Obviously the logistics and specifics of Patrick's film, not those of his predecessors is the most important thing at the end of the day, but just playing the number game, this article really scares me away

[DesertSteel]

Not gonna lie, all the rigorous explanation and film around this board had me warmed up to the idea of picking Mahomes in the 1st round. But then I saw this article: http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/4/10/15221934/nfl-draft-2017-quarterbacks-patrick-mahomes-davis-webb-air-raid-quarterbacks

Look at this list of QB's of significance. Out of the 20 listed, literally only 1 of them made it through more than 2 seasons worth of starts. That QB was (drumroll please) Tim Couch. Thats not the kind of good fortune I want to hear. The 2nd most starts by a air raid QB on the list is Geno Smith. According to the article, the average career passer rating for active QB's with 500+ attempts is also 83.3. The only QB on the entire list thats above that mark is Nick Foles. Theres many more nuggets of information similiar to along those lines. Obviously the logistics and specifics of Patrick's film, not those of his predecessors is the most important thing at the end of the day, but just playing the number game, this article really scares me away
I'm quite sure that this is going to give GMs cold feet in the first round.

[DesertSteel]

A nice breakdown by sports science.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=19209620

[st33lersguy]

I think the Steelers would be wise to pass on a QB in favor of best available edge rusher/defensive back. There will be more value at those positions at 30 and better players than at QB

[Dwinsgames]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUN15f3Swoo

[pczach]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUN15f3Swoo


That's awesome. Like they say in the video.....After watching his highlights and seeing what a great athlete he is in many sports, how does he end up and Miami OH???????

Man, talent evaluation can be tough! I can hear it now....Only one year starter.....too skinny......likes to move rather than staying in the pocket......talent level he played against wasn't good enough.....

Sounds like us talking about this years quarterback class! :sofunny:

[Born2Steel]

Did he ever have an Oline?