Sammie Coates Says He Had Surgery On His Groin

[Shoes]

He should have had both his hand transplanted also. What's going on in Groinburgh?




In addition to offseason surgery to fix his broken fingers, Sammie Coates says he recently underwent surgery on his groin. He announced it on Twitter Monday evening.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/02/sammie-coates-says-surgery-groin/

[Steeldude]

He would probably do better if he tried catching with his groin.

[Psycho Ward 86]

that definitely explains the bad hands :lol:

[Born2Steel]

Just for the hell of it, you guys should pull up Coates' highlight reel from Auburn. He didn't have an issue catching back then. Not sure what's going on now but looks like a different guy.

[Shoes]

Just for the hell of it, you guys should pull up Coates' highlight reel from Auburn. He didn't have an issue catching back then. Not sure what's going on now but looks like a different guy.

Well the weaknesses listed here looks & sounds like the Sammie Coates we have.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/sammie-coates?id=2552470

[Steeldude]

Just for the hell of it, you guys should pull up Coates' highlight reel from Auburn. He didn't have an issue catching back then. Not sure what's going on now but looks like a different guy.

Highlight reels don't show drops. Yes, he had problems catching in college. I believe I remember reading he had something like a 20% drop rate.

[steelreserve]

You know how people wonder what would've happened if Limas Sweed had actually been able to stay on the field on a regular basis? This is probably about it.

[43Hitman]

Just for the hell of it, you guys should pull up Coates' highlight reel from Auburn. He didn't have an issue catching back then. Not sure what's going on now but looks like a different guy.It's a highlight reel bro. Why would they show his drops?

[AtlantaDan]

that definitely explains the bad hands :lol:

Gotta be the bad teeth

831528741293658112

[GBMelBlount]

He would probably do better if he tried catching with his groin.

:lol:


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/bc/7a/09/bc7a093325fa53d2ff1e2b15fec9c5ab.jpg

[DesertSteel]

that definitely explains the bad hands :lol:
Yeah he's got to keep his hands low in protect mode!

[Born2Steel]

It's a highlight reel bro. Why would they show his drops?

I get that. My point was watch him make the catch. He was a big time receiver in college. I don't remember a lot of drops. I didn't watch all, or a whole season worth of Auburn games, but I did watch more than a few. Coates was the man, the goto guy. If you look at the highlights you see him in double or triple coverage every time. I don't think I'm making up memories here. I'm not even an Auburn fan.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

I get that. My point was watch him make the catch. He was a big time receiver in college. I don't remember a lot of drops. I didn't watch all, or a whole season worth of Auburn games, but I did watch more than a few. Coates was the man, the goto guy. If you look at the highlights you see him in double or triple coverage every time. I don't think I'm making up memories here. I'm not even an Auburn fan.He was a awesome deep threat for Auburn and take it to the house. I believe the knock on him coming out of the draft he misses the easy catches. Ps.when Ben was hooking up with him early on this season, Ben under thrown him most times that would have be long td's instead of 40 yard gains. Either work though.

[EzraTank]

Just for the hell of it, you guys should pull up Coates' highlight reel from Auburn. He didn't have an issue catching back then. Not sure what's going on now but looks like a different guy.

SEC defenses vs NFL.

[Shoes]

I don't want Coates or any of our draft picks to fail. But Coates is going on year 3 and has not improved imo at all on his pre draft analysis. I suppose the Steelers will let him play out his rookie contract then flush.


WEAKNESSES

Won't be on quarterback's Christmas card list. Wasn't always on same page with Auburn QB Nick Marshall. Unreliable target. Inexplicable focus drops in all areas of the field. Doesn't play with extended catch radius. Had a drop rate of 19.1 percent. Vertical receiver without vertical feel. Inconsistent play speed. Will gear down too easily on deep routes, turning catchable touchdowns into "overthrows." Suspect ball tracking. Must improve at using body to ward off defenders. Inconsistent with contested catches. Stiff hips and limited route runner. Slow to gather and turn it upfield on catch-and-runs.

[Mojouw]

It used to be "Year 3" was the breakout for college WRs. We've been spoiled that so many kids hit the NFL ready to roll now. I think if Coates hadn't gotten hurt this season we would be having a totally different conversation right now. I expect a major bounceback from him. However, I do agree with Shoes, that Coates will likely always be a bit flawed as a WR.

But what do I know? I was a Limas Sweed cheer-leader also.

[pczach]

Coates did more in the early part of this year before the injury, than Sweed did in his entire career.

He has also done way more than many of the receivers fans have fallen in love with over several decades. That won't stop them from calling for his head and mocking and insulting him until he is gone or loses all confidence.

[Shoes]

Coates did more in the early part of this year before the injury, than Sweed did in his entire career.

He has also done way more than many of the receivers fans have fallen in love with over several decades. That won't stop them from calling for his head and mocking and insulting him until he is gone or loses all confidence.

If Sammie Coates or any other NFL player loses all confidence because of what fans say they are in the wrong business. They are paid huge amounts of money to stay in shape and play a game.

[Born2Steel]

I don't want Coates or any of our draft picks to fail. But Coates is going on year 3 and has not improved imo at all on his pre draft analysis. I suppose the Steelers will let him play out his rookie contract then flush.


WEAKNESSES

Won't be on quarterback's Christmas card list. Wasn't always on same page with Auburn QB Nick Marshall. Unreliable target. Inexplicable focus drops in all areas of the field. Doesn't play with extended catch radius. Had a drop rate of 19.1 percent. Vertical receiver without vertical feel. Inconsistent play speed. Will gear down too easily on deep routes, turning catchable touchdowns into "overthrows." Suspect ball tracking. Must improve at using body to ward off defenders. Inconsistent with contested catches. Stiff hips and limited route runner. Slow to gather and turn it upfield on catch-and-runs.

I posted this same thing in another thread back during the season. I was very frustrated with how he had been playing. This was before his hand injury though I think. Not completely sure. Anyway, I feel pretty much the same as you. Next season is his time to make positive strides or find a spot on a different roster.

[Shoes]

I posted this same thing in another thread back during the season. I was very frustrated with how he had been playing. This was before his hand injury though I think. Not completely sure. Anyway, I feel pretty much the same as you. Next season is his time to make positive strides or find a spot on a different roster.


Agreed! And I hope he makes it.

[pczach]

If Sammie Coates or any other NFL player loses all confidence because of what fans say they are in the wrong business. They are paid huge amounts of money to stay in shape and play a game.


It still doesn't change the fact that many Steelers fans have mini orgasms about players that don't have half the talent Coates does. They catch 3 passes and we have to hear how promising that player is and how hard they are rooting for that player. Coates actually tears it up on the field with huge production before the injury, but the same fans that have mini orgasms over stiffs turn on the talented player and want him tossed from the moving team bus after struggling with multiple broken fingers.

It's ridiculous.

[Mojouw]

Come on! Cobi Hamilton is going to be a star.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shoes]

It still doesn't change the fact that many Steelers fans have mini orgasms about players that don't have half the talent Coates does. They catch 3 passes and we have to hear how promising that player is and how hard they are rooting for that player. Coates actually tears it up on the field with huge production before the injury, but the same fans that have mini orgasms over stiffs turn on the talented player and want him tossed from the moving team bus after struggling with multiple broken fingers.

It's ridiculous.

One needs more than talent. No question Coates has that, but he lacks the inner drive and tools imo. That makes him equal to the players Steeler fans have mini orgasms over because those players are playing with guts and grit,minus a higher level of talent.
Coates had nearly a 20% drop rate in college, with no injuries. According to this article, as of 1-4-17 he lead the NFL, dropping 25% of targets. I'll give him 5-10% for his injury and he's still at about same level as he was in school, 15-20% drop rate. Thats part of my beef with him, the others are listed above, which haven't change either. I don't believe most are fixable, but I would be delighted to be wrong and really wish him great success.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/01/now-not-time-give-sammie-coates/

[pczach]

One needs more than talent. No question Coates has that, but he lacks the inner drive and tools imo. That makes him equal to the players Steeler fans have mini orgasms over because those players are playing with guts and grit,minus a higher level of talent.
Coates had nearly a 20% drop rate in college, with no injuries. According to this article, as of 1-4-17 he lead the NFL, dropping 25% of targets. I'll give him 5-10% for his injury and he's still at about same level as he was in school, 15-20% drop rate. Thats part of my beef with him, the others are listed above, which haven't change either. I don't believe most are fixable, but I would be delighted to be wrong and really wish him great success.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/01/now-not-time-give-sammie-coates/


I know you wish him the best and hope he improves, but hear me out.

I think his inner drive is fine. In the preseason, everyone associated with the team raved at how hard he worked in the off season to prepare, and how hard he worked all through camp. I just don't like when people question the heart of players when they really have no idea.

He's the #4 WR.

They have a young #4 WR that scares the hell out of opposing defenses because he stretches the field and makes huge plays....so fans want to get rid of him?

It makes no sense. People are overreacting because they are emotionally invested.

I'll say it again....He's the #4 receiver. Other teams would kill for that luxury. It's just that he was forced to play a huge role because Bryant was suspended and Wheaton was injured the entire year.

The guy doesn't deserve the crap he's getting from emotional Steelers fans.

This from many of the same fans that love DHB because he plays special teams.

Coates also plays special teams and he played hurt, but he gets no credit for toughing it out for the team. DHB gets hurt at the end of the year and doesn't play...but he has heart and inner drive?

Does this explain better why I support him and believe fans should be happy to have him?

[Iron Steeler]

BREAKING NEWS!!! Mike Tomlin to undergo groin surgey as well. Bad play calling in AFC Championship game due to groin pain.

[Mojouw]

I think one of the hidden take-aways from this thread is that after the Steelers sort out AB, Timmons, and Bell - they should be able to see what they have left in terms of Cap $$$. At that point someone needs to call Wheaton's agent.

[Born2Steel]

Both curious AND a bit lazy. What is the average drop rate by a WR in the NFL? I know guys like Rice never dropped a pass, but I'm talking about the average WR. Just curious where that number matches with Coates. Is he really 'bad', or just average. And since we had high hopes he seems worse than average.

[Mojouw]

Both curious AND a bit lazy. What is the average drop rate by a WR in the NFL? I know guys like Rice never dropped a pass, but I'm talking about the average WR. Just curious where that number matches with Coates. Is he really 'bad', or just average. And since we had high hopes he seems worse than average.

Looking at this chart http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/receiving.htm it seems that a serviceable "deep threat" WR catches between 52-60% of their targets. Elite guys like AB and Julio catch 60-70+%.

Coates caught 21/49 for 42.9%. So five more passes and he gains the 10% needed to be right there with other comparable #2-#3 deep ball guys. 9 more catches and he is the low end of the more dominant guys in the league. So we are talking about less than one more catch per game.

[86WARD]

5 more passes and the Steelers could possibly be sitting on a 7th Super Bowl Trophy....just saying...those "drops" shouldn't be taken lightly.

[Mojouw]

5 more passes and the Steelers could possibly be sitting on a 7th Super Bowl Trophy....just saying...those "drops" shouldn't be taken lightly.

Very true. I'm not arguing to just dismiss it as not a big deal. But wanted to point out that for a dude with jacked up fingers and a broken groin, Coates is not that far from having a big time impact.

For me, more than the drops, it is running a full NFL route tree. He can't really be integrated into the full offense, because all he does is run go and post routes.

[Shoes]

I know you wish him the best and hope he improves, but hear me out.

I think his inner drive is fine. In the preseason, everyone associated with the team raved at how hard he worked in the off season to prepare, and how hard he worked all through camp. I just don't like when people question the heart of players when they really have no idea.

He's the #4 WR.

They have a young #4 WR that scares the hell out of opposing defenses because he stretches the field and makes huge plays....so fans want to get rid of him?

It makes no sense. People are overreacting because they are emotionally invested.

I'll say it again....He's the #4 receiver. Other teams would kill for that luxury. It's just that he was forced to play a huge role because Bryant was suspended and Wheaton was injured the entire year.

The guy doesn't deserve the crap he's getting from emotional Steelers fans.

This from many of the same fans that love DHB because he plays special teams.

Coates also plays special teams and he played hurt, but he gets no credit for toughing it out for the team. DHB gets hurt at the end of the year and doesn't play...but he has heart and inner drive?

Does this explain better why I support him and believe fans should be happy to have him?

I fully understand why you support him and I'll give him some rope until his first rookie contract is up. I do believe he has a lazy streak, I've lived long enough in different cultures around the world to be able to spot it, regardless of occupation. His draft profile is a perfect painted picture of where he's at. It's up to him to change that.

[Mojouw]

Not sure that a dude who flys around on Special Teams like Coates can be defined as "lazy".

Not uncommon for players in their first 1-3 years in the NFL to lack any awareness of how to be a professional at this level. Almost all former players talk about how they had to learn that over time. Coates is likely facing adversity for the first time in his athletic life. Big test is how he deals with it.

If nothing changes by mid-point of next season, perhaps then the lazy conversation can happen. But to this point, I am curious what that is based on? Lack of improvement? Effort? Body Language?

[86WARD]

Very true. I'm not arguing to just dismiss it as not a big deal. But wanted to point out that for a dude with jacked up fingers and a broken groin, Coates is not that far from having a big time impact.

For me, more than the drops, it is running a full NFL route tree. He can't really be integrated into the full offense, because all he does is run go and post routes.

We've seen Coates be an impact player. Something was happening (I'm not sure what) with him that he fell off the face of the earth...whether it was the hands or the groin or mental issues. Something happened and he became "less" of a player than he was showing he could be...or maybe teams just eliminated him? I don't know...

[awe1028]

It is just too early to give up on Sammie Coates. Here is a guy who through the first 5 games was leading the NFL in yards per catch. This does not guarantee his success but it certainly showcased his potential as at the very least a potent deep ball threat.

After those 5 games his production did tail off significantly. The question is why? If there were no reasons for his dip in production, then it would make sense to question his long term prospects. However, that is not the case. It is well known that he suffered two broken fingers which would obviously affect his ability to catch the football.

In addition it is now apparent he was dealing with a groin injury so much so that it required surgery. We need only look at Leveon Bell in the AFCCG to see the negative impact such an injury can have on a player's performance.

It seems to me knowing that Coates was dealing with these 2 fairly significant injuries offers a plausible explanation for his decline and buys Coates some time to prove whether those 5 games were a fluke or not.

[Shoes]

Not sure that a dude who flys around on Special Teams like Coates can be defined as "lazy".

Not uncommon for players in their first 1-3 years in the NFL to lack any awareness of how to be a professional at this level. Almost all former players talk about how they had to learn that over time. Coates is likely facing adversity for the first time in his athletic life. Big test is how he deals with it.

If nothing changes by mid-point of next season, perhaps then the lazy conversation can happen. But to this point, I am curious what that is based on? Lack of improvement? Effort? Body Language?

Coates had 7 tackles on ST, I'll give him credit for that, but he is probably twice as fast as Red, Williams & Nix. I'm not sure how Coates playing ST has any connection with his play at WR?


ST Stats:

Dirty Red was 9th in the NFL with 13 tackles

Vince Williams 26th in the NFL W/11 tackles

Nix 48th in the NFL W/9

Coates & Dangerfield 81st W/7 tackles

As for Coates here are his minuses as a WR, after school and before the draft. Which of these can't be fixed? I say #11 on the stiff hips. I think #8 could be improved somewhat, but ball tracking comes by feel imo.

Coates came to training camp in year one out of shape and sat on the bench. He had one catch in the regular season. Thats a big flag for me. Year two better shape but no improvement in the 12 points. In fact he demonstrated them all or most of them in every game. I'll give him some rope for the finger injury, but he didn't have a finger injury in school.

Lack of improvement? Effort? Body Language? Yes, I'd say so. I honestly feel he thinks he can get by with his natural ability. But as I said before, I hope I'm wrong.


1. Unreliable target
2. Inexplicable focus drops in all areas of the field.
3. Doesn't play with extended catch radius
4. Had a drop rate of 19.1 percent
5 Vertical receiver without vertical feel
6. Inconsistent play speed.
7. Will gear down too easily on deep routes, turning catchable touchdowns into overthrows.
8. Suspect ball tracking.
9. Must improve at using body to ward off defenders.
10. Inconsistent with contested catches.
11. Stiff hips and limited route runner.
12. Slow to gather and turn it upfield on catch-and-runs.

[Mojouw]

Coates had 7 tackles on ST, I'll give him credit for that, but he is probably twice as fast as Red, Williams & Nix. I'm not sure how Coates playing ST has any connection with his play at WR?


ST Stats:

Dirty Red was 9th in the NFL with 13 tackles

Vince Williams 26th in the NFL W/11 tackles

Nix 48th in the NFL W/9

Coates & Dangerfield 81st W/7 tackles

As for Coates here are his minuses as a WR, after school and before the draft. Which of these can't be fixed? I say #11 on the stiff hips. I think #8 could be improved somewhat, but ball tracking comes by feel imo.

Coates came to training camp in year one out of shape and sat on the bench. He had one catch in the regular season. Thats a big flag for me. Year two better shape but no improvement in the 12 points. In fact he demonstrated them all or most of them in every game. I'll give him some rope for the finger injury, but he didn't have a finger injury in school.

Lack of improvement? Effort? Body Language? Yes, I'd say so. I honestly feel he thinks he can get by with his natural ability. But as I said before, I hope I'm wrong.


1. Unreliable target
2. Inexplicable focus drops in all areas of the field.
3. Doesn't play with extended catch radius
4. Had a drop rate of 19.1 percent
5 Vertical receiver without vertical feel
6. Inconsistent play speed.
7. Will gear down too easily on deep routes, turning catchable touchdowns into overthrows.
8. Suspect ball tracking.
9. Must improve at using body to ward off defenders.
10. Inconsistent with contested catches.
11. Stiff hips and limited route runner.
12. Slow to gather and turn it upfield on catch-and-runs.
Ok. I can see all that. I think this offseason is make or break for me. Come into camp with some improvements and I'll figure everything prior was bad luck and frustrating but fairly standard college star learning how to be a pro. Anything else, and I'm in on the doesn't work hard enough tag.

[Born2Steel]

Midseason I was very frustrated with Coates. I was ready to sit him and forget him. Then it came out that he had 2 broken fingers. That was enough for me to give him another season. I've seen fingers here where I work that take 6 months to feel close to normal again. Even fingers that don't require pins can take 3 months before the docs release them. So I give him full pardon for the catching woes of 2016. That said, 2017 needs to be the year he becomes what we need him to be, or it's back to the pine IMO.

[86WARD]

Saw Sammie Coates fingers yesterday. Mangled like a lineman. Probably not good for a WR. #Steelers

From Lolleys Twitter

[pczach]

Saw Sammie Coates fingers yesterday. Mangled like a lineman. Probably not good for a WR. #Steelers

From Lolleys Twitter


I'm assuming he means fingers pointed in directions they're not supposed to be pointing at the joint?

That's not good.

I wonder if that's enough for fans to cut him some slack for the drops last year and questioning his heart? There had to be a lot of pain involved when playing with multiple injuries that severe.

[Born2Steel]

From NBCSports

Posted by Josh Alper on February 14, 2017, 2:37 PM ESThttps://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/631783418-e1487101055366.jpg?w=242Getty ImagesSteelers wide receiver Sammie Coates (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/10285/sammie-coates) discussed recent groin surgery (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/14/sammie-coates-recovering-from-groin-surgery/) on Twitter on Monday, which appeared to be the second time that he’d had an operation since the end of the regular season.
In a late January tweet, Coates wrote that he’d just gotten out of surgery (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/31/sammie-coates-recovering-from-surgery/) and Jeremy Fowler of ESPN.com reported that the operation was done to repair “fractures and tendon damage (http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0618106104630483357-4)” to fingers on his left hand. Coates’ injured fingers led to frequent appearances on the injury report and caused him trouble on the field, but Fowler now says that report was incorrect (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18683804/sammie-coates-pittsburgh-steelers-had-sports-hernia-surgery).
Per Fowler, Coates has only had the sports hernia surgery he was discussing on Monday. That injury was never noted on the league’s injury report, which was reportedly due to the team’s feeling that it wasn’t limiting him at practice at any point in the year.
It’s not the first injury that the Steelers failed to list on their injury report only to have it come to light after the end of the season. Running back Le’Veon Bell (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8390/leveon-bell)’s groin injury wasn’t listed leading into the AFC Championship Game, which led to a league investigation after he left that game and said the injury had been bothering him for some time.
No results of that investigation have been announced and it’s not clear if the inconsistency with Coates will also merit a look, although the league may choose to pass on any substantive punishment (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/14/seahawks-skate-on-sherman-injury-report-snafu/) anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

However, this was Fowler's report in October

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PITTSBURGH -- Steelers (http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers) receiver Sammie Coates (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2574549/sammie-coates) is dealing with a fractured index finger on his left hand, sources told ESPN on Saturday.
Sources told ESPN's Jeremy Fowler that Coates is expected to be active for Sunday's game against the Miami Dolphins (http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/mia/miami-dolphins), while a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter that the WR will be a game-time decision.
It's unsure how much Coates, who also has a laceration above his left palm, will be used because of the injuries if he does play.
The Steelers promoted Cobi Hamilton from the practice squad as insurance at outside receiver, but Coates wants to be a major contributor, barring problems with the injury Sunday morning, sources said.

http://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2016%2F0910%2Fr124125_1296x729_16 %2D9.jpg&w=570Sammie Coates has 421 receiving yards and two touchdowns in five games for the Steelers this season. Chuck Cook/USA Today SportsCoates, who was limited in Friday's practice and is listed as questionable, has 421 yards and two touchdowns in five games, including at least one catch of 40-plus yards in every game.
"It's going to swell because it's not healed all the way," Coates said Friday. "It's part of the game. ... Can't be worried. You have to play football. You have to be a pro."
ESPN NFL Insider Chris Mortensen contributed to this report.

- - - Updated - - -

And.....Fowler for ESPN. Same day as the first report above.

PITTSBURGH -- Steelers (http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers) wide receiver Sammie Coates (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2574549/sammie-coates) underwent sports hernia surgery, according to a source, repairing an injury that was not listed on the team's injury report in 2016.
The source, however, said the injury did not affect Coates' practice participation throughout the year and was more of a nuisance.
On Monday night, Coates tweeted his displeasure at undergoing surgery on his pelvis, then confirmed to inquiring fans that his surgery repaired a groin injury.
Coates played through broken fingers in his left hand in 2016. ESPN reported last month that Coates underwent surgery to repair the hand, but the procedure was for the groin only, a source clarified Tuesday.
Coates played 14 regular-season games and finished with 435 receiving yards, most of which came in the first five games, before the hand injury.
The NFL is investigating the Steelers over injury report protocol involving running back Le'Veon Bell (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/15825/le'veon-bell), whose groin injury wasn't listed in the weeks leading up to the AFC title game in New England. Bell left the game because of the groin injury.
The Steelers maintained Bell's injury did not affect his practice participation, and team president Art Rooney II said he's confident the Steelers' response to the league will be satisfactory. Bell missed practice time before the New England game due to a personal matter, not an injury.
Investigations can subject a team to fines, suspensions or lost draft picks.
The league's injury reports are intended "to provide a full and complete rendering of player availability," according to the NFL's 2016 Personnel Report Policy.
"It is NFL policy that information for dissemination to the public on all injured players be reported in a satisfactory manner by clubs to the league office, the opposing team, local and national media, and broadcast partners each game," the policy states. Any disputes in compliance require the team to demonstrate it has acted in a manner consistent with the intent of the policy.

[43Hitman]

^^ Do you have a link for this article? It would be much easier to read.

[Born2Steel]

^^ Do you have a link for this article? It would be much easier to read.

Let me see if I can work that out......

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/14/report-sammie-coates-didnt-have-finger-surgery/

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17803082/pittsburgh-steelers-wr-sammie-coates-dealing-broken-finger

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/report-sammie-coates-didnt-have-finger-surgery-454474.html

[43Hitman]

Let me see if I can work that out......

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/14/report-sammie-coates-didnt-have-finger-surgery/

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17803082/pittsburgh-steelers-wr-sammie-coates-dealing-broken-finger

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/report-sammie-coates-didnt-have-finger-surgery-454474.htmlThank you kindly sir! :hatsoff:

[43Hitman]

Let me see if I can work that out......

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/14/report-sammie-coates-didnt-have-finger-surgery/

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17803082/pittsburgh-steelers-wr-sammie-coates-dealing-broken-finger

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/report-sammie-coates-didnt-have-finger-surgery-454474.htmlThe Steelers are playing with the injury report it seems. They better be careful, I'd sure hate see the team lose a draft pick because they were playing games with semantics.

[Shoes]

Amazing how everyone ignores his predraft bio, which is exactly the picture of him today. He did one better tho, lazy as he is, he comes to camp out of shape and on the bench in year one.

[Mojouw]

Very few players show up to their first training camp in NFL shape.

Most linemen, LB,and TEs need an NFL weight room for strength and most skill position guys and DBs need to cut body fat.

Additionally, very few college players have any clue how to eat, take care of their bodies, etc that lead to the conditioning necessary to be good over a long period of time in the NFL.

Finally, prior to the injuries last season, Sammie Coates was on pace to put up better numbers than Bryant ever has - across the board. Does that mean that Coates is a better WR than Bryant? Nope. But it means that lumping him in with the Limas Sweed's of the world is likely too far the other way.

Coates, at least for me, gets this camp and pre-season to show what he is actually going to be as an NFL player. I think that no one knows, including him, what that is going to be.

[Shoes]

Who else showed up at Steeler camp in Coates class out of shape and was benched?

[Mojouw]

Who else showed up at Steeler camp in Coates class out of shape and was benched?

Casey Hampton showed up fat and out of shape every year of his career. I'm not going to really go after a kid for showing up out of shape in his rookie camp. It is common. It is what shape and condition did he show up in the subsequent years where he should know how to get his body right.

[ALLD]

Good thing Coates doesn't catch the ball with his groin.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Amazing how everyone ignores his predraft bio, which is exactly the picture of him today. He did one better tho, lazy as he is, he comes to camp out of shape and on the bench in year one.

Who exactly was supposed to come off the field for Coates in 2015?

[Shoes]

Casey Hampton showed up fat and out of shape every year of his career. I'm not going to really go after a kid for showing up out of shape in his rookie camp. It is common. It is what shape and condition did he show up in the subsequent years where he should know how to get his body right.

Casey Hampton? You said players in their first year of training camp. It isn't the norm for a R3 pick to be benched for being out of shape.Sure there is going to be adjustments to make but these guys dream of play in the NFL all their young lives. To be drafted in R3 and come to camp so out of shape that your benched is chicken shit. You make it sound like these guys have no clue what the NFL is like even tho many teams are running pro style offenses & defenses. Coates coming to training camp out of shape and no changes in his predraft bio are part of the same root cause.

[Shoes]

Who exactly was supposed to come off the field for Coates in 2015?


He he was a rookie R3 pick, is coming to training camp in shape to much to ask?

[Psycho Ward 86]

Casey Hampton? You said players in their first year of training camp. It isn't the norm for a R3 pick to be benched for being out of shape.Sure there is going to be adjustments to make but these guys dream of play in the NFL all their young lives. To be drafted in R3 and come to camp so out of shape that your benched is chicken shit. You make it sound like these guys have no clue what the NFL is like even tho many teams are running pro style offenses & defenses. Coates coming to training camp out of shape and no changes in his predraft bio are part of the same root cause.

im still trying to figure out who exactly Coates was supposed to be able to take off the field as a rookie...

Antonio Brown, the best receiver in the league? nope. Martavis Bryant, our consumate deep/redzone threat with pro bowl potential? nope. Markus Wheaton, who started off slow but established himself as a good #3 the season before and finished the season well? nope. Not to mention Heath Miller was still playing and when you have a blocker like him and RB's like Bell/Williams, you dont take him off often. DHB even made legitimate contributions to our deep ball with receptions of 21, 41, 43, 58, and 66.

I think you're having some serious short term memory regarding the make up of the team in 2015 as well as Coates production early in the most recent season.

60 receptions, 1347 yards, 6 TD's. Thats what Coates was on pace for in his 1st 5 games. In those 5 games alone, Coates still finished the season tied as one of the league leaders in 40+ yard receptions.

To put into comparison with Martavis Bryant in 2014, had a much easier path to getting playing time in the spot next to Antonio Brown. Darrius Heyward Bey just joined the team and was a productivity question mark going into the season. Markus Wheaton also had his rookie season derailed by broken fingers and was a productivity question mark going into the season. Lance Moore was washed up and in Tomlin's dog house. Hell, even Justin Brown earned a start because we didnt have a clear #2 on the team yet.

41 receptions, 878 yards, 12 TD's is what Martavis was on pace for had he played the entire season. Coates exceeded some of those numbers and thats good company to be in

[Mojouw]

Casey Hampton? You said players in their first year of training camp. It isn't the norm for a R3 pick to be benched for being out of shape.Sure there is going to be adjustments to make but these guys dream of play in the NFL all their young lives. To be drafted in R3 and come to camp so out of shape that your benched is chicken shit. You make it sound like these guys have no clue what the NFL is like even tho many teams are running pro style offenses & defenses. Coates coming to training camp out of shape and no changes in his predraft bio are part of the same root cause.

Happens every year with all kinds of picks. This was without even trying on the Google machines:

"Jackson believes that there is a level of conditioning specific to the NFL." --- http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000662703/article/jackson-corey-coleman-rookies-need-to-get-in-shape

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2010/05/07/minicamps -- ""These guys thought they were practicing hard," head coach Jim Schwartz said of the Lions' rookies last weekend. "Our pace is generally three times as fast as what these guys were going through. . . . They didn't really have a feeling of where they need to be to be in shape. They think they're in good shape, and they have no idea once they get here."

[pczach]

Amazing how everyone ignores his predraft bio, which is exactly the picture of him today. He did one better tho, lazy as he is, he comes to camp out of shape and on the bench in year one.



The thing is....I didn't need his pre-draft bio. I follow college football and got to see him play many times against the best competition. I saw enough of him to see his talent, and how he stacked up against SEC defenses. I liked the pick when they took him, and was able to tell people at SF about his physical skills and his deficiencies before the draft and after the Steelers drafted him. Some of us really follow this stuff and actually do player evaluations ourselves, while some fans don't know a thing about college football or the players in it and get all their knowledge reading other peoples opinions. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but some are more informed than others and have a much better understanding of what a player is capable of.

You're really going too far with this "lazy" commentary. The point you try to make about being out of shape is exactly how many players show up. They simply have no idea what NFL shape is until they get there. You try to put him in this category with about 20 other players in the league. The fact is that a large percentage of players aren't in NFL shape their rookie season. Most players will tell you that themselves if they're being honest. I've heard many of them say it themselves on all the sports media.

I'm not ignoring anything.

[Shoes]

im still trying to figure out who exactly Coates was supposed to be able to take off the field as a rookie...

Antonio Brown, the best receiver in the league? nope. Martavis Bryant, our consumate deep/redzone threat with pro bowl potential? nope. Markus Wheaton, who started off slow but established himself as a good #3 the season before and finished the season well? nope. Not to mention Heath Miller was still playing and when you have a blocker like him and RB's like Bell/Williams, you dont take him off often. DHB even made legitimate contributions to our deep ball with receptions of 21, 41, 43, 58, and 66.

I think you're having some serious short term memory regarding the make up of the team in 2015 as well as Coates production early in the most recent season.

60 receptions, 1347 yards, 6 TD's. Thats what Coates was on pace for in his 1st 5 games. In those 5 games alone, Coates still finished the season tied as one of the league leaders in 40+ yard receptions.

To put into comparison with Martavis Bryant in 2014, had a much easier path to getting playing time in the spot next to Antonio Brown. Darrius Heyward Bey just joined the team and was a productivity question mark going into the season. Markus Wheaton also had his rookie season derailed by broken fingers and was a productivity question mark going into the season. Lance Moore was washed up and in Tomlin's dog house. Hell, even Justin Brown earned a start because we didnt have a clear #2 on the team yet.

41 receptions, 878 yards, 12 TD's is what Martavis was on pace for had he played the entire season. Coates exceeded some of those numbers and thats good company to be in


Who is talking about Coates taking another WR off the field? I'm saying he has shown little progress since school. Tomlin benched him being out of shape year one. Year two no change in his bio, year three?

[Psycho Ward 86]

Who is talking about Coates taking another WR off the field? I'm saying he has shown little progress since school. Tomlin benched him being out of shape year one. Year two no change in his bio, year three?

Year 2 no change?

Literal headlines/articles like this all throughout the offseason: Sammie Coates Now Highly Conditioned Athlete http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/05/sammie-coates-now-highly-conditioned-athlete/

and by all indications from reports of him in training camp, he was really killing it, and some thought he was one of the best players there. How are you going to sit here and say he had no changes to his bio in year 2 without giving any evidence? Again, 60 receptions, 1347 yards, 6 TD's. Is that not a nice prorated stat line for a #2 receiver? And this dude is about to become our #3 or #4 receiver? Thats pretty remarkable.

Year 3 is looking good if his health checks out

[Shoes]

The thing is....I didn't need his pre-draft bio. I follow college football and got to see him play many times against the best competition. I saw enough of him to see his talent, and how he stacked up against SEC defenses. I liked the pick when they took him, and was able to tell people at SF about his physical skills and his deficiencies before the draft and after the Steelers drafted him. Some of us really follow this stuff and actually do player evaluations ourselves, while some fans don't know a thing about college football or the players in it and get all their knowledge reading other peoples opinions. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but some are more informed than others and have a much better understanding of what a player is capable of.

You're really going too far with this "lazy" commentary. The point you try to make about being out of shape is exactly how many players show up. They simply have no idea what NFL shape is until they get there. You try to put him in this category with about 20 other players in the league. The fact is that a large percentage of players aren't in NFL shape their rookie season. Most players will tell you that themselves if they're being honest. I've heard many of them say it themselves on all the sports media.

I'm not ignoring anything.

Again what R3 picks have been benched for being out of shape? I may may not know much about college football, but being lazy isnt limited to football. Coates is lazy, he thinks he can get by on his raw talent. Maybe à change in year 3?

[pczach]

Who is talking about Coates taking another WR off the field? I'm saying he has shown little progress since school. Tomlin benched him being out of shape year one. Year two no change in his bio, year three?


Now you're just making stuff up. He was awesome in training camp, came to the team in great shape, and everyone in the organization and all the people outside of the Steelers were saying he might have a big year because he looked great. Tomlin made many comments about how hard he worked in the offseason to prepare, and how hard he was working in camp. Come on man....

Here are some articles for you to look over.

http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2016/07/30/sammie-coates-dazzles-at-rainy-steelers-training-camp-practice/

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/08/04/steelers-training-camp-sammie-coates-kevin-colbert

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/10825225-74/coates-camp-season

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2016/08/09/Second-year-WR-Sammie-Coates-continues-to-open-many-eyes-in-Steelers-training-camp/stories/201608090059

[Shoes]

Year 2 no change?

Literal headlines/articles like this all throughout the offseason: Sammie Coates Now Highly Conditioned Athlete http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/05/sammie-coates-now-highly-conditioned-athlete/

and by all indications from reports of him in training camp, he was really killing it, and some thought he was one of the best players there. How are you going to sit here and say he had no changes to his bio in year 2 without giving any evidence? Again, 60 receptions, 1347 yards, 6 TD's. Is that not a nice prorated stat line for a #2 receiver? And this dude is about to become our #3 or #4 receiver? Thats pretty remarkable.

Year 3 is looking good if his health checks out

He was out of shape in his rookie year and benched. His conditioning was better in year 2, I said this in post 35.

I saw no consistent change in Coates in these points in year 2


1. Unreliable target
2. Inexplicable focus drops in all areas of the field.
3. Doesn't play with extended catch radius
4. Had a drop rate of 19.1 percent
5 Vertical receiver without vertical feel
6. Inconsistent play speed.
7. Will gear down too easily on deep routes, turning catchable touchdowns into overthrows.
8. Suspect ball tracking.
9. Must improve at using body to ward off defenders.
10. Inconsistent with contested catches.
11. Stiff hips and limited route runner.
12. Slow to gather and turn it upfield on catch-and-runs.


As of 1-4-17 he lead the NFL, dropping 25% of targets, give him 5-10% for his finger and he is at his school drop rate.

[Shoes]

Now you're just making stuff up. He was awesome in training camp, came to the team in great shape, and everyone in the organization and all the people outside of the Steelers were saying he might have a big year because he looked great. Tomlin made many comments about how hard he worked in the offseason to prepare, and how hard he was working in camp. Come on man....

Here are some articles for you to look over.

http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2016/07/30/sammie-coates-dazzles-at-rainy-steelers-training-camp-practice/

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/08/04/steelers-training-camp-sammie-coates-kevin-colbert

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/10825225-74/coates-camp-season

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2016/08/09/Second-year-WR-Sammie-Coates-continues-to-open-many-eyes-in-Steelers-training-camp/stories/201608090059


Before you say I'm making things up, get your year right. Coates wasted his first year. I said in post 35 he made progress in his conditioning in year two. The progress I'm speaking of are these.

1. Unreliable target
2. Inexplicable focus drops in all areas of the field.
3. Doesn't play with extended catch radius
4. Had a drop rate of 19.1 percent
5 Vertical receiver without vertical feel
6. Inconsistent play speed.
7. Will gear down too easily on deep routes, turning catchable touchdowns into overthrows.
8. Suspect ball tracking.
9. Must improve at using body to ward off defenders.
10. Inconsistent with contested catches.
11. Stiff hips and limited route runner.
12. Slow to gather and turn it upfield on catch-and-runs.

[Shoes]

Happens every year with all kinds of picks. This was without even trying on the Google machines:

"Jackson believes that there is a level of conditioning specific to the NFL." --- http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000662703/article/jackson-corey-coleman-rookies-need-to-get-in-shape

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2010/05/07/minicamps -- ""These guys thought they were practicing hard," head coach Jim Schwartz said of the Lions' rookies last weekend. "Our pace is generally three times as fast as what these guys were going through. . . . They didn't really have a feeling of where they need to be to be in shape. They think they're in good shape, and they have no idea once they get here."


2015-2016 Steeler draft. Coates is the only one to come into camp so out of shape that he was benched. Its not common.

2015

Dupree

Golson

Coates

Grant

James

Chickillo

Holliman

2016

Burns

Davis

Hargrave

Hawkins

Feeney

Ayers

Matakevich

[Mojouw]

2015-2016 Steeler draft. Coates is the only one to come into camp so out of shape that he was benched. Its not common.

"Dupree focused on his conditioning in the offseason, shedding 20 pounds from his 6-foot-4 frame to weigh closer to 250 pounds now. “That will help,” Dupree said. “I feel like I just wanted to be light for the conditioning aspect, so I can play a lot more plays. You can always keep getting in better shape from a conditioning aspect. Being heavy, I felt like I got tired more.”" -- http://sports.usatoday.com/2016/08/22/uks-dupree-set-for-breakout-season-in-nfl/

Tomlin on guys coming in to camp their second year "All second-year guys, all have done a lap around the track, all got a basic understanding of how important conditioning is. And I think the weight is reflective of that.” -- http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Tomlin-takes-conditioning-expectations-crises/e0c38574-0ff4-4551-8f58-917105b0af37

Tomlin contrasting Davis against typically rookies " “He’s one of the few rookies that I’ve seen that really kind of looks like he’s come prepared from a conditioning standpoint. So it’s not a knock against the others, it’s really a tip of the cap to him and i think that’s the first place that allows him to grow and take extra reps.” -- http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/08/mike-tomlin-praises-conditioning-level-steelers-rookie-safety-sean-davis/

"But when these rooks show up for camp, many of them are still in testing shape. And that can lead to heavy legs throughout practice, poor conditioning on the field and even some soft tissue injuries. Plus, with the number of pre-draft visits these prospects take during April, their workout routine stalls, or even comes to a complete stop. There is a big difference in terms of functional conditioning that can be used on the practice field versus the training to run a 40-yard dash. Part of the transition to the league." -- http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15492105/inside-nfl-rookie-minicamps-where-sloppy-football-puking-norm

“I don't feel like I played to my best ability, to be honest,” Williams said via Darryl Slater of NJ.com (http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2015/09/jets_leonard_williams_says_he_wasnt_in_good_enough .html). “I think part of it is just conditioning." -- http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-york-jets-rookie-leonard-williams-week-1-performance-091415

[Shoes]

"Dupree focused on his conditioning in the offseason, shedding 20 pounds from his 6-foot-4 frame to weigh closer to 250 pounds now. “That will help,” Dupree said. “I feel like I just wanted to be light for the conditioning aspect, so I can play a lot more plays. You can always keep getting in better shape from a conditioning aspect. Being heavy, I felt like I got tired more.”" -- http://sports.usatoday.com/2016/08/22/uks-dupree-set-for-breakout-season-in-nfl/

Tomlin on guys coming in to camp their second year "All second-year guys, all have done a lap around the track, all got a basic understanding of how important conditioning is. And I think the weight is reflective of that.” -- http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Tomlin-takes-conditioning-expectations-crises/e0c38574-0ff4-4551-8f58-917105b0af37

Tomlin contrasting Davis against typically rookies " “He’s one of the few rookies that I’ve seen that really kind of looks like he’s come prepared from a conditioning standpoint. So it’s not a knock against the others, it’s really a tip of the cap to him and i think that’s the first place that allows him to grow and take extra reps.” -- http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/08/mike-tomlin-praises-conditioning-level-steelers-rookie-safety-sean-davis/

"But when these rooks show up for camp, many of them are still in testing shape. And that can lead to heavy legs throughout practice, poor conditioning on the field and even some soft tissue injuries. Plus, with the number of pre-draft visits these prospects take during April, their workout routine stalls, or even comes to a complete stop. There is a big difference in terms of functional conditioning that can be used on the practice field versus the training to run a 40-yard dash. Part of the transition to the league." -- http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15492105/inside-nfl-rookie-minicamps-where-sloppy-football-puking-norm

“I don't feel like I played to my best ability, to be honest,” Williams said via Darryl Slater of NJ.com (http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2015/09/jets_leonard_williams_says_he_wasnt_in_good_enough .html). “I think part of it is just conditioning." -- http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-york-jets-rookie-leonard-williams-week-1-performance-091415


What was Coates doing before training camp?He sure as hell wasn't in *testing shape* All of these players were in shape, it doesn't mean they didn't need more or better conditioning. I don't recall Tomlin benching any rookie but Coates, do you?

[Psycho Ward 86]

What was Coates doing before training camp?He sure as hell wasn't in *testing shape* All of these players were in shape, it doesn't mean they didn't need more or better conditioning. I don't recall Tomlin benching any rookie but Coates, do you?

i find it interesting that you arent addressing a lot of the valid points being made. i also find it interesting that you are so centrally focused on Coates rookie campaign when most are looking towards his future potential. Coates has much more recently been in good physical condition according to sources that actually interact with him regularly. He has also much more recently than his rookie season, displayed production when healthy. Beat writers are even confirming that he hasn't even gotten surgery yet. Lets see what healthy, full season Sammie Coates can do. Because a lot of us were damn impressed by what he did in 5.

[Shoes]

i find it interesting that you arent addressing a lot of the valid points being made. i also find it interesting that you are so centrally focused on Coates rookie campaign when most are looking towards his future potential. Coates has much more recently been in good physical condition according to sources that actually interact with him regularly. He has also much more recently than his rookie season, displayed production when healthy. Beat writers are even confirming that he hasn't even gotten surgery yet. Lets see what healthy, full season Sammie Coates can do. Because a lot of us were damn impressed by what he did in 5.


I honestly haven't seen any valid points. Again, I said and understand his conditioning was better in year 2, but he didn't show to me any consistent improvement in his bio. I said before I'd give him until his rookie contract was up. I think Coates rookie campaign has a lot to do with the lack of improvement. With the game on the line, I sure as hell don't want Ben throwing the ball to Coates. That is unless he makes a big turn around in the next year or two.

[Mojouw]

What was Coates doing before training camp?He sure as hell wasn't in *testing shape* All of these players were in shape, it doesn't mean they didn't need more or better conditioning. I don't recall Tomlin benching any rookie but Coates, do you?

I don't recall Tomlin benching Coates. I'm sure it happened. I just don't remember because I figure all rookies are out of shape at some level and most are far from ready to make meaningful contributions in the NFL.

Point is that Corey Coleman got called out for being out of shape this year. It happens to multiple rookies each draft class across the league. I have provided more than enough evidence to back that up.

Coates had a conditioning issue his first year in the pros. Lots of guys do. Coates, to his credit, got that cleaned up in year two. Came out of the gate smoking. Putting up better WR #2 #'s than anyone else has recently for the Black and Gold. Then it all went off the rails.

You see a player who has made little to no improvement due to a lazy streak. I see a player who will always have significant flaws as a WR (there is reason he was there in the 3rd) but worked to get better and then a combination of injuries and poor performance sapped his physical abilities and his confidence.

If Coates can rehab and derive some mental lessons from his 2016 campaign, then he should continue to develop into a secondary weapon for the offense.

Hell, at least he gets to practice and suit up. More than we can say for Bryant?

[Born2Steel]

The first 5 games this past season, Coates was a beast. If that's coming in out of shape and being lazy, then I hope he never changes. I get the frustration, I really do, but the man plays WR and had broken fingers, and now we find out he also had a torn groin. I think maybe just a little more credit should be given to him. Wheaton spent the season injured, Bryant was suspended, and the rest were activated from PS. I still want a true #2 WR, but Coates went above and beyond, IMO.

[Shoes]

I don't recall Tomlin benching Coates. I'm sure it happened. I just don't remember because I figure all rookies are out of shape at some level and most are far from ready to make meaningful contributions in the NFL.

Point is that Corey Coleman got called out for being out of shape this year. It happens to multiple rookies each draft class across the league. I have provided more than enough evidence to back that up.

Coates had a conditioning issue his first year in the pros. Lots of guys do. Coates, to his credit, got that cleaned up in year two. Came out of the gate smoking. Putting up better WR #2 #'s than anyone else has recently for the Black and Gold. Then it all went off the rails.

You see a player who has made little to no improvement due to a lazy streak. I see a player who will always have significant flaws as a WR (there is reason he was there in the 3rd) but worked to get better and then a combination of injuries and poor performance sapped his physical abilities and his confidence.

If Coates can rehab and derive some mental lessons from his 2016 campaign, then he should continue to develop into a secondary weapon for the offense.

Hell, at least he gets to practice and suit up. More than we can say for Bryant?

No you haven't, there is a difference in not being in top NFL shape and spending your first year living in street cloths as a #3 pick, wasting your first year in the NFL. I don't think that happens to multiple R3 pick across the league.

Tomlin more than benched him. Coates was in street cloths for eight regular season games & another postseason game. He didn't get off the bench in two other regular season games and only caught one pass in the reg season.. Now the issue here is more than being out of shape. Coates signed a 4 year $2,911,515 with a 631,515 signing bonus and comes to camp overweight and tired. Now, I said he came in year 2 in better shape but did not see much improvement in his game. I hope I will this year.

[Shoes]

The first 5 games this past season, Coates was a beast. If that's coming in out of shape and being lazy, then I hope he never changes. I get the frustration, I really do, but the man plays WR and had broken fingers, and now we find out he also had a torn groin. I think maybe just a little more credit should be given to him. Wheaton spent the season injured, Bryant was suspended, and the rest were activated from PS. I still want a true #2 WR, but Coates went above and beyond, IMO.

As I said about 3 or 4 times now, Coates was in better shape in year 2. He hasn't earned a penny of his money yet imo. When he does, I'll be delighted to say so.

[Mojouw]

No you haven't, there is a difference in not being in top NFL shape and spending your first year living in street cloths as a #3 pick, wasting your first year in the NFL. I don't think that happens to multiple R3 pick across the league.

Tomlin more than benched him. Coates was in street cloths for eight regular season games & another postseason game. He didn't get off the bench in two other regular season games and only caught one pass in the reg season.. Now the issue here is more than being out of shape. Coates signed a 4 year $2,911,515 with a 631,515 signing bonus and comes to camp overweight and tired. Now, I said he came in year 2 in better shape but did not see much improvement in his game. I hope I will this year.



Was that all due to conditioning issues or, I suspect this is the case, the make-up of the 53 active players each Sunday. With AB, Bryant, Wheaton, DHB as the four active WRs for almost every game - where was Coates gonna play if they did give him a hat?

Is Coates a flawed WR? Yes - kind of the exact same way that DHB is a flawed WR. Lazy? Going to have to do better than a rookie who was inactive for most of the season on a team that had depth at the position.

[Born2Steel]

As I said about 3 or 4 times now, Coates was in better shape in year 2. He hasn't earned a penny of his money yet imo. When he does, I'll be delighted to say so.

That is not for you to say. You are perfectly welcome to have an opposing opinion, but so is everyone else. Coates came to camp his rookie season out of shape. So What? Seems to be the response. He played great in season2 then suffered injuries that depleted his ability to play the position. Even what little he was able to do, after finding out about broken fingers and torn groin, is damn impressive, and above what he is paid to do. Yes, we are frustrated with his production after the first 5 games. But with hindsight, we see he was far from 100 percent. A little patience is what some of us are willing to give. Next season will tell the tale. Can we just draft a true #2 and be done with this?

[Shoes]

Was that all due to conditioning issues or, I suspect this is the case, the make-up of the 53 active players each Sunday. With AB, Bryant, Wheaton, DHB as the four active WRs for almost every game - where was Coates gonna play if they did give him a hat?

Is Coates a flawed WR? Yes - kind of the exact same way that DHB is a flawed WR. Lazy? Going to have to do better than a rookie who was inactive for most of the season on a team that had depth at the position.

According to Haley it was..

"It was clear he wasn't ready to have an impact on us," Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley says in retrospect. "The first part of the year was rough. He wasn't near in the condition he needed to be in, and he probably thought he was in decent shape."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2670863-how-sammie-coates-went-from-rookie-bust-to-the-latest-steelers-wr-success-story

[Mojouw]

According to Haley it was..

"It was clear he wasn't ready to have an impact on us," Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley says in retrospect. "The first part of the year was rough. He wasn't near in the condition he needed to be in, and he probably thought he was in decent shape."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2670863-how-sammie-coates-went-from-rookie-bust-to-the-latest-steelers-wr-success-story

ANd it sounds like that stopped real quick like -- "He's the perfect example of putting in the work and having it pay off," Heyward-Bey says. "He's a totally different person from Day 1."

Runs better routes -- "Listen, overnight, he's not going to be the best route-runner in the world," Roethlisberger says. "That's just not the way it works. But you can see the growth. You can see the changes. He used to get real wild and flail at the top of his route, which keyed DBs on when he was going to start breaking. He's tightened it up and made it harder to know when he is going to break. You can see he's more compact at the top of his route."

Coates says he caught at least 100 passes a day from his new jugs machine. His catching ability remains a work in progress—his drop rate is 14.3 percent this year, according to Pro Football Focus (https://www.profootballfocus.com/data/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2016&surn=coates&playerid=9520&group=5&pre=REG)—but it has improved.

About three-quarters through the season, it started to come together for Coates. No one saw it except for his coaches and teammates—and people like Batch who were allowed around the team—but he started lighting up practices.

None of those quotes from the really cool article you linked seem to paint the picture of a lazy or not dedicated player. They paint the picture of a player who had zero idea about how to be a pro when they came to the NFL. This is a VERY familiar story with college WRs.

Coates most likely is never going to be an "elite" or "top-end" NFL WR. But I bet he can be totally useful 2nd or 3rd option.

[Shoes]

That is not for you to say. You are perfectly welcome to have an opposing opinion, but so is everyone else. Coates came to camp his rookie season out of shape. So What? Seems to be the response. He played great in season2 then suffered injuries that depleted his ability to play the position. Even what little he was able to do, after finding out about broken fingers and torn groin, is damn impressive, and above what he is paid to do. Yes, we are frustrated with his production after the first 5 games. But with hindsight, we see he was far from 100 percent. A little patience is what some of us are willing to give. Next season will tell the tale. Can we just draft a true #2 and be done with this?

Or can the combine and draft get here :chuckle: . I'm willing to have a little patience with hard workers, Coates doesn't fit that mold yet imo. But like I said, I'll give him a bit of rope until his contract is up.

[Shoes]

ANd it sounds like that stopped real quick like -- "He's the perfect example of putting in the work and having it pay off," Heyward-Bey says. "He's a totally different person from Day 1."

Runs better routes -- "Listen, overnight, he's not going to be the best route-runner in the world," Roethlisberger says. "That's just not the way it works. But you can see the growth. You can see the changes. He used to get real wild and flail at the top of his route, which keyed DBs on when he was going to start breaking. He's tightened it up and made it harder to know when he is going to break. You can see he's more compact at the top of his route."

Coates says he caught at least 100 passes a day from his new jugs machine. His catching ability remains a work in progress—his drop rate is 14.3 percent this year, according to Pro Football Focus (https://www.profootballfocus.com/data/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2016&surn=coates&playerid=9520&group=5&pre=REG)—but it has improved.

About three-quarters through the season, it started to come together for Coates. No one saw it except for his coaches and teammates—and people like Batch who were allowed around the team—but he started lighting up practices.

None of those quotes from the really cool article you linked seem to paint the picture of a lazy or not dedicated player. They paint the picture of a player who had zero idea about how to be a pro when they came to the NFL. This is a VERY familiar story with college WRs.

Coates most likely is never going to be an "elite" or "top-end" NFL WR. But I bet he can be totally useful 2nd or 3rd option.

Sure his fellow players are going to say that. No different than when we expect coaches to call out players or other coaches. The proof is in the pudding in year 3-4. He has his work cut out for him if Bryant can keep his nose clean.

[Mojouw]

Sure his fellow players are going to say that. No different than when we expect coaches to call out players or other coaches. The proof is in the pudding in year 3-4. He has his work cut out for him if Bryant can keep his nose clean.

So you're the only arbiter of "lazy" based on reading stuff on the internet?

It doesn't really matter. I think in the end we are saying the same thing - Coates either plays like he did in the first handful of games for a full season or he is likely staring down a visit from the turk come year 4 or 5.

[Shoes]

So you're the only arbiter of "lazy" based on reading stuff on the internet?

It doesn't really matter. I think in the end we are saying the same thing - Coates either plays like he did in the first handful of games for a full season or he is likely staring down a visit from the turk come year 4 or 5.

No, it's based his pre draft profile, how he wasted year one and didn't show me much in year two. So far, I have not seen in Coates what most of you have. Its just that simple.

[pczach]

Post #61
Before you say I'm making things up, get your year right. Coates wasted his first year. I said in post 35 he made progress in his conditioning in year two. The progress I'm speaking of are these.

1. Unreliable target
2. Inexplicable focus drops in all areas of the field.
3. Doesn't play with extended catch radius
4. Had a drop rate of 19.1 percent
5 Vertical receiver without vertical feel
6. Inconsistent play speed.
7. Will gear down too easily on deep routes, turning catchable touchdowns into overthrows.
8. Suspect ball tracking.
9. Must improve at using body to ward off defenders.
10. Inconsistent with contested catches.
11. Stiff hips and limited route runner.
12. Slow to gather and turn it upfield on catch-and-runs.

Post #58
Again what R3 picks have been benched for being out of shape? I may may not know much about college football, but being lazy isnt limited to football. Coates is lazy, he thinks he can get by on his raw talent. Maybe à change in year 3?

Post #56
Who is talking about Coates taking another WR off the field? I'm saying he has shown little progress since school. Tomlin benched him being out of shape year one. Year two no change in his bio, year three?



In post #58 above you said that he is still lazy, and then ask if maybe that will change in year 3. To say that means you are ignoring everything that everyone is telling you and showing you in articles, and what every single player and coach on the team said about him last season. You can't just pretend that he didn't work his ass off and improve last season because it fits your argument. You can't arbitrarily pick a single year and all others are off limits.


Post #35
Coates had 7 tackles on ST, I'll give him credit for that, but he is probably twice as fast as Red, Williams & Nix. I'm not sure how Coates playing ST has any connection with his play at WR?


ST Stats:

Dirty Red was 9th in the NFL with 13 tackles

Vince Williams 26th in the NFL W/11 tackles

Nix 48th in the NFL W/9

Coates & Dangerfield 81st W/7 tackles

As for Coates here are his minuses as a WR, after school and before the draft. Which of these can't be fixed? I say #11 on the stiff hips. I think #8 could be improved somewhat, but ball tracking comes by feel imo.

Coates came to training camp in year one out of shape and sat on the bench. He had one catch in the regular season. Thats a big flag for me. Year two better shape but no improvement in the 12 points. In fact he demonstrated them all or most of them in every game. I'll give him some rope for the finger injury, but he didn't have a finger injury in school.

Lack of improvement? Effort? Body Language? Yes, I'd say so. I honestly feel he thinks he can get by with his natural ability. But as I said before, I hope I'm wrong.


1. Unreliable target
2. Inexplicable focus drops in all areas of the field.
3. Doesn't play with extended catch radius
4. Had a drop rate of 19.1 percent
5 Vertical receiver without vertical feel
6. Inconsistent play speed.
7. Will gear down too easily on deep routes, turning catchable touchdowns into overthrows.
8. Suspect ball tracking.
9. Must improve at using body to ward off defenders.
10. Inconsistent with contested catches.
11. Stiff hips and limited route runner.
12. Slow to gather and turn it upfield on catch-and-runs.

Here you state that there is "no improvement in the 12 points" in his second season. I don't know how you can say that after watching him play all preseason and in the first 5 games of the year. And again, you keep saying that after all the linked articles with tons of quotes from everybody saying how hard he has worked and how much he has improved. Sorry man....your just intentionally ignoring the obvious.

If "no improvement" gives us the production he had in the first 5 games of last season.....I'll take more of that, thank you.

[Shoes]

Post #61

Post #58

Post #56



In post #58 above you said that he is still lazy, and then ask if maybe that will change in year 3. To say that means you are ignoring everything that everyone is telling you and showing you in articles, and what every single player and coach on the team said about him last season. You can't just pretend that he didn't work his ass off and improve last season because it fits your argument. You can't arbitrarily pick a single year and all others are off limits.


Post #35

Here you state that there is "no improvement in the 12 points" in his second season. I don't know how you can say that after watching him play all preseason and in the first 5 games of the year. And again, you keep saying that after all the linked articles with tons of quotes from everybody saying how hard he has worked and how much he has improved. Sorry man....your just intentionally ignoring the obvious.

If "no improvement" gives us the production he had in the first 5 games of last season.....I'll take more of that, thank you.


He came into the NFL lazy, made some progress in year two but he was not consistent in anything. My gut feeling is this is where he will remain, unreliable and inconsistent. I'm done with this.

[pczach]

He came into the NFL lazy, made some progress in year two but he was not consistent in anything. My gut feeling is this is where he will remain, unreliable and inconsistent. I'm done with this.


I'm not trying to fight with you. I keep trying to show you different things and explain it in different ways backed up by links. You keep making the same criticisms of Coates in every post.

You asked me to read your posts and get my year straight before accusing you of making things up. I read them and responded to them showing you what you said. I posted them above in my post.

I provide links to multiple articles with teammates, coaches, people in the organization, and comments from nationally respected football people saying how much hard work Coates has done and how much improvement he has made......and you either didn't read them or you choose to ignore them. You didn't even respond to any of the points any of us are making or the people that talked about how great he looks and the improvement he has made in the links provided.

I said you are making stuff up because you are ignoring everything he has done in his second year. You said to get my year right because you only want to look at 2015.

It's amazing to me how you keep listing his bio as the only thing that matters. His bio is really his entire college career which was multiple years of flaws and criticisms along with some amazing plays.

Now you want to stick with that bio and only evaluate his first year in the NFL, as if the other years of his career don't matter. You can't have it both ways.

That would be like me picking out the best year of a players career and saying that's exactly who that guy was as a player and who he ever will be. It doesn't make sense and gives a flawed view of what that player really did over the course of his entire career.

Anyway, I guess we agree to disagree. We both want the best for the team so let's hope that he can become a player that stays healthy and makes big plays to help the team win.

[Born2Steel]

Here's his complete pre draft bio:

Strengths Looks the part. Long legs with well-proportioned frame. Outstanding combination of size and speed. Good acceleration off the snap for a receiver with his length. Can take top off defense and open up the underneath. Will beat bold cornerbacks over the top if they wait to turn and run. Forces cornerbacks onto their heels and gets easy, open looks on dig routes. Makes easy in-cut with maximum separation. Ability to win big plays vertically. Saved best performances for big games. Put 206 yards and two touchdowns on Alabama in 2014. Weaknesses Won't be on quarterback's Christmas card list. Wasn't always on same page with Auburn QB Nick Marshall. Unreliable target. Inexplicable focus drops in all areas of the field. Doesn't play with extended catch radius. Had a drop rate of 19.1 percent. Vertical receiver without vertical feel. Inconsistent play speed. Will gear down too easily on deep routes, turning catchable touchdowns into "overthrows." Suspect ball tracking. Must improve at using body to ward off defenders. Inconsistent with contested catches. Stiff hips and limited route runner. Slow to gather and turn it upfield on catch-and-runs. Draft Projection Round 3 NFL Comparison Martavis Bryant Bottom Line Big, fast and raw. Vertical wide receiver with the ability to hit big plays and have dominant games. Coates must be coached to trust his quarterback and run through his deep routes in order to reach his potential. He has early round traits and late-round receiving skills right now, but the upside will be hard to pass on and could pay off in a big way. He will be tethered to the JUGS machine in rookie camp.

[Mojouw]

Interesting bit floating around on the internets lately. His last 3 1,000 yard seasons Terrell Owens had a 16 and change % drop rate! Now he was seeing about 9 targets a game, but still.

Point being is that big, physical WRs can sustain a high drop rate and have success. Now, as Shoes has correctly pointed out, the problem is that Coates does not use his body properly to shield DBs away from the ball. If he could do this and let more balls get trapped against his body, I bet he would have more success. I know it isn't textbook, but something about lemons and lemonade.