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View Full Version : Whoever decided to play zone defense should be fired



ETL
01-22-2017, 10:31 PM
Everyone (experts, broadcasters, fans) knew that Brady can carve up the zone defense. Houston Texans put up a fight last week playing man to man.

So what do we play? Zone defense.

It would have been better to just have forfeited the game than make us watch the same painful dissection over again.

I don't understand how any coach on the Steelers who decided to play zone defense still has a job on Monday unless their job is to blow Art Rooney III

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
01-22-2017, 10:37 PM
Everyone (experts, broadcasters, fans) knew that Brady can carve up the zone defense. Houston Texans put up a fight last week playing man to man.

So what do we play? Zone defense.

It would have been better to just have forfeited the game than make us watch the same painful dissection over again.

I don't understand how any coach on the Steelers who decided to play zone defense still has a job on Monday unless their job is to blow Art Rooney III Blame lays on Tomlin or Butler or both. I personally think Butler is a joke and only knows Zone and should have never been hired!

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Ps. blame also lays on whoever decided to hire Butler!

DesertSteel
01-22-2017, 10:40 PM
Tomlin is the boss. Worst game plan I've ever seen.

fansince'76
01-22-2017, 10:43 PM
Butler was earmarked for LeBeau's job when Cowher was still around, IIRC.

tube517
01-22-2017, 10:44 PM
Butler was earmarked for LeBeau's job when Cowher was still around, IIRC.

Pretty much. I remember Butler getting offers elsewhere but being talked (or promised the job) into staying

teegre
01-22-2017, 10:46 PM
IMO, the Steelers out thought themselves.

They did not do what they had been doing so well during that nine-game win streak. It was as if they were afraid that Belichick would figure their defense out; so they changed it up. Belichick didn't need to figure anything out; the Steelers turned gold into lead on their own.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
01-22-2017, 10:53 PM
Butler was earmarked for LeBeau's job when Cowher was still around, IIRC. See there is the problem and hire someone who will make a difference and better the team. This stupid bs of giving people a chance cause they put there time in is bs and always 9 times out of 10 ruins everything!

LloydWoodson
01-23-2017, 07:50 AM
IMO, the Steelers out thought themselves.

They did not do what they had been doing so well during that nine-game win streak. It was as if they were afraid that Belichick would figure their defense out; so they changed it up. Belichick didn't need to figure anything out; the Steelers turned gold into lead on their own.

I agree with this.

polamalubeast
01-23-2017, 10:39 AM
Everyone (experts, broadcasters, fans) knew that Brady can carve up the zone defense. Houston Texans put up a fight last week playing man to man.

So what do we play? Zone defense.

It would have been better to just have forfeited the game than make us watch the same painful dissection over again.

I don't understand how any coach on the Steelers who decided to play zone defense still has a job on Monday unless their job is to blow Art Rooney III


agree

Edman
01-23-2017, 12:23 PM
I
MO, the Steelers out thought themselves.

They did not do what they had been doing so well during that nine-game win streak. It was as if they were afraid that Belichick would figure their defense out; so they changed it up. Belichick didn't need to figure anything out; the Steelers turned gold into lead on their own.

Belichick can "figure out" whatever he wants. That doesn't mean anything. That Offenses' Achilles Heel for years is pressure Defense. Get physical with their receivers and force Brady to move.

They played right into their hands. Again.

ETL
02-05-2017, 07:47 PM
Hmmm. Atlanta is playing man to man.

I wonder if any of the dumbass Steelers coaches are paying attention.

In any case they should still be fired for being stoopid or being too stubborn to not change and adapt.

tube68
02-05-2017, 07:54 PM
The Cheats** bandwagon is unloading now

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

lipps83
02-05-2017, 07:55 PM
Hmmm. Atlanta is playing man to man.

I wonder if any of the dumbass Steelers coaches are paying attention.

In any case they should still be fired for being stoopid or being too stubborn to not change and adapt.

That lacrosse player that carved the Steelers Shower Curtain Defense up for 160 yards, looks like a lacrosse player today.

ETL
02-05-2017, 08:00 PM
Either the Steelers hope that some other team beats the Pats so we don't have to face them in the playoffs or we hire a real defensive coach with some brains and balls

86WARD
02-05-2017, 08:00 PM
Was 180...no?

ETL
02-05-2017, 08:03 PM
And I don't want to hear any bullshit from Butler about how he's "learned" from the Pats loss - the Steelers should not have trusted the job to this amateur who's still learning on the job

Steeldude
02-05-2017, 08:03 PM
Either the Steelers hope that some other team beats the Pats so we don't have to face them in the playoffs or we hire a real defensive coach with some brains and balls

Tomlin was content with the game plan. Should he stay?

The problem is either player talent or the coaching.

ETL
02-05-2017, 08:12 PM
If Tomlin was the one that decided to play zone then he should be fired.

lipps83
02-05-2017, 08:15 PM
And I don't want to hear any bullshit from Butler about how he's "learned" from the Pats loss - the Steelers should not have trusted the job to this amateur who's still learning on the job

The problem I have is that he had the job uncontested probably 10 years before he even got the job. How do you know you hired the best guy for the position when there is no competition for the position?

I think he can be a good coach eventually. However, he needs to separate himself from everything Dick Lebeau taught him. Especially when it comes to the Patriots and Brady.

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Tomlin was content with the game plan. Should he stay?

The problem is either player talent or the coaching.

It can't be a player problem if you are running the same junk against the same player (Brady) that hasn't worked over a span of almost 20 years.

Born2Steel
02-05-2017, 09:30 PM
Hmmm. Atlanta is playing man to man.

I wonder if any of the dumbass Steelers coaches are paying attention.

In any case they should still be fired for being stoopid or being too stubborn to not change and adapt.

And how did that work out for Atlanta?

Mojouw
02-05-2017, 09:32 PM
Whew. Good thing they played whatever coverages those were.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Steeldude
02-05-2017, 09:33 PM
And how did that work out for Atlanta?

A lot better than pretty much laying down and letting Brady do what he wants. The Falcons played well. I doubt the Steelers would have beaten the Falcons. They would have played a weak zone and Ryan would have eaten up.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
02-05-2017, 09:34 PM
ShIt is fix guys and why would Atlanta in field goal range with under 5 minutes to go, already up 8 not continue to run the ball and eat up clock and kick the field goal and game over ? Instead they decide to pass and have Ryan run 15 yards backwards and take a sack.

Born2Steel
02-05-2017, 09:40 PM
A lot better than pretty much laying down and letting Brady do what he wants. The Falcons played well. I doubt the Steelers would have beaten the Falcons. They would have played a weak zone and Ryan would have eaten up.

NOPE, you can't back up now. You said in another thread, not winning the SB is a failure. Atlanta failed, just like we did. How doesn't matter, facts don't matter, only the final score matters. Atlanta was up 25pts with 2mins to go in the 3rd. If that were the Steelers, we would have been able to run the clock out. So quit your piling on of how terrible the Steelers are. You are a horrible fan.

lipps83
02-05-2017, 09:41 PM
hahaha, some of you are hysterical. At least Falcons tried something that worked for a bit while Butler/Lebeau sticks with what everyone on the planet knows won't work.

If that had been Steelers vs Patriots you all know very well final would have been 42-17 or something. Steelers never would have even gotten up to 28-3.

hahahaha.

Epic collapse by the Falcons though.

Mojouw
02-05-2017, 09:51 PM
Yeah. 43/62 for almost 500 yards. Really held them down.

Turnovers and sacks. That was the story. No one stopped anyone consistently. In the first half Atlanta got 2 turnovers and more sacks/hurries. In the 3rd and 4th quarter it was mostly the Pats way.

Must be coaching.

Born2Steel
02-05-2017, 09:59 PM
I fail to see how this game affects the Steelers coaching. Atlanta did exactly what all you "fire 'em all" guys wanted the Steelers to do, and still got beat. So by that rationale, the Falcons are even worse than the Steelers because they knew what to do and couldn't win. IDIOTS!

teegre
02-05-2017, 10:00 PM
I'd rather lose the way that the Steelers did, than the way that the Falcons did.


The series that will haunt tyem:
The Falcons were in FG range... sack, hold, lose.

Mojouw
02-05-2017, 10:03 PM
I'd rather lose the way that the Steelers did, than the way that the Falcons did.


The series that will haunt tyem:
The Falcons were in FG range... sack, hold, lose.

And if you really want to get into it, the back blew the protection on the sack that forced the turnover as well. Coaches, am I right?

teegre
02-05-2017, 10:04 PM
And if you really want to get into it, the back blew the protection on the sack that forced the turnover as well. Coaches, am I right?

Likewise, Matty Ice held the ball for a full 75 seconds...

polamalubeast
02-05-2017, 10:16 PM
The falcons have made more stop than the steelers and it is not close despite that the steelers have more talent in defense than the falcons.

The steelers had only one stop against the patriots, the falcons made 5 stops in the first half, including a pick 6.

The problem, the Falcons offense scored only 21 points, including 0 in the last 25 minutes.

teegre
02-05-2017, 10:39 PM
Zone = 36 points

Man = 34 points


Maaaaaaaybe, Brady is good (unless pressured).

polamalubeast
02-05-2017, 10:51 PM
Zone = 36 points

Man = 34 points


Maaaaaaaybe, Brady is good (unless pressured).



C'mon man, be smarter than that

The steelers made only one stop(1 punt) for the entire game, the falcons made 6 stops(4 punt,2 turnovers,including a pick 6).And the steelers have more talent in defense than the falcons.

Yes Brady is amazing, but playing the zone against him is like throwing the white flag.

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Big difference to give 36 points on 8 drives(Steelers) and 34 points on 12 drives(Falcons) or 27 points on 17 drives like Houston....

Mojouw
02-05-2017, 10:53 PM
Just because you haven't heard of the players on the Falcons defense doesn't mean they don't have as much or more talent...see Teegre's post about the draft picks invested on that side of the ball.

polamalubeast
02-05-2017, 10:54 PM
Just because you haven't heard of the players on the Falcons defense doesn't mean they don't have as much or more talent...see Teegre's post about the draft picks invested on that side of the ball.

The falcons were one of the worst defense in the NFL this year(27th)

teegre
02-05-2017, 10:57 PM
C'mon man, be smarter than that

The steelers made only one stop(1 punt) for the entire game, the falcons made 6 stops(4 punt,2 turnovers,including a pick 6).And the steelers have more talent in defense than the falcons.

Yes Brady is amazing, but playing the zone against him is like throwing the white flag.

2 points better :huh:

Stops??? Okay. But, stats can lie. If you give up TDs on half of the drives, you'd technically have more stops than a team who holds its opponent to only FGs.

TD 7
punt
TD 14
punt
TD 21
punt
TD 28
punt

FG 3
FG 6
FG 9
FG 12
FG 15
FG 18
FG 21
FG 24

Mojouw
02-05-2017, 10:57 PM
The falcons were one of the worst defense in the NFL this year(27th)

I get that their stats sucked. Last year or so of Lebeau stats were great but...

From Teegre in another thread:

2015 draft:
Vic Beasley (NFL sack leader)
Jalen Collins
Grady Jarrett

2016:
Keanu Neal
Deion Jones (DROY)
De'Vondre Campbell

That's 6/11ths of that defense that is just now coming into their own. Our defense is similar, but still one year away.

As in: Atlanta's 2015 draft equals our 2016 draft... and hopefully, our 2017 draft adds a pass rusher or two. Voila! ...we're just as good as Atlanta is right now.

That's more "talent" by counting youth and draft picks. Not by a lot, but by an amount that could matter.

polamalubeast
02-05-2017, 11:06 PM
2 points better :huh:

Stops??? Okay. But, stats can lie. If you give up TDs on half of the drives, you'd technically have more stops than a team who holds its opponent to only FGs.

TD 7
punt
TD 14
punt
TD 21
punt
TD 28
punt

FG 3
FG 6
FG 9
FG 12
FG 15
FG 18
FG 21
FG 24


Please, don't go in the extremes.

The steelers gave 4 TD and 3 FG in 8 drives against the pats.It was 4 TD and 2 FG in 12 drives for the falcons against the pats.

If the pats would have had 12 drives vs PIT, the pats would probably have had like 55 points as in 2013!

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I get that their stats sucked. Last year or so of Lebeau stats were great but...

From Teegre in another thread:

2015 draft:
Vic Beasley (NFL sack leader)
Jalen Collins
Grady Jarrett

2016:
Keanu Neal
Deion Jones (DROY)
De'Vondre Campbell

That's 6/11ths of that defense that is just now coming into their own. Our defense is similar, but still one year away.

As in: Atlanta's 2015 draft equals our 2016 draft... and hopefully, our 2017 draft adds a pass rusher or two. Voila! ...we're just as good as Atlanta is right now.

That's more "talent" by counting youth and draft picks. Not by a lot, but by an amount that could matter.


At worst, the defense talent between the falcons and the steelers is similar, but the difference was the gameplan.

You have no chance to win when your defense gives 4 TD and 3 FG in 8 drives.

Your chances are better when your defense gives 3 TD,3 FG and 1 pick 6 in 11 drives and in regulation time

teegre
02-05-2017, 11:07 PM
Please, don't go in the extremes.

The steelers gave 4 TD and 3 FG in 8 drives against the pats.It was 4 TD and 2 FG in 12 drives for the falcons against the pats.

If the pats would have had 12 drives vs PIT, the pats would probably have had like 55 points as in 2013!

That's were the concept of "team" comes into play. The Steelers offense held onto the ball long enough for the Taperiots to only have 8 possessions... whereas, the Falcons didn't eat up enough clock (specifically when they were at the 20 with only 5 minutes left).

Mojouw
02-05-2017, 11:09 PM
I get it. Atlanta, even though they also lost, was better than the Steelers against this Pats team. I am only trying to make 3 points:

1. What happened over Brady/Evil Hoodies entire career together doesn't matter as each roster is a bit of a "reset". The 2011 Pats and Steelers look far different than the 2016 versions of the same teams.
2. Man coverage is not some "magic bullet" against Brady and whatever flavor of their offense that the Pats are running in a given week or season.
3. Getting and sustaining pressure, particularly on key downs (almost all of Pats 2016 SB sacks were on 3rd downs), and turnovers matter far more to defensive "performance" than the back-end coverage scheme.

Do those three things mean that the Steelers should roll out a similar gameplan as they did in the AFCCG? No, that would be an extreme overstatement. Of course not. But to say that they can't run zone and beat the Pats is also too extreme. If you run zone behind a pass rush that either (or both!) gets to Brady or disrupts his timing, then you will be fine - or at least as "fine" as anyone is against these guys. Alternatively, does that mean that man coverage should be avoided or discarded on principle? Of course not. But Brady beat man coverages plenty of times tonight.

polamalubeast
02-05-2017, 11:10 PM
That's were the concept of "team" comes into play. The Steelers offense held onto the ball long enough for the Taperiots to only have 8 possessions... whereas, the Falcons didn't eat up enough clock (specifically when they were at the 20 with only 5 minutes left).


I was just talking only about the defense.

Mojouw
02-05-2017, 11:15 PM
What did the Giants play behind their "four aces" pass rush? No one remembers because it was the rush that changed those games.

What do the Ravens play against the Pats? No one remembers because it is pressure and turnovers that typically drive those Ravens victories from my memory.

polamalubeast
02-05-2017, 11:17 PM
I've never seen a defense play passive(Soft zone)like the steelers against the patriots and having success.Soft zone against the patriots.this is the white flag.

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What did the Giants play behind their "four aces" pass rush? No one remembers because it was the rush that changed those games.

What do the Ravens play against the Pats? No one remembers because it is pressure and turnovers that typically drive those Ravens victories from my memory.

The patriots were a different team when they had Randy Moss.

teegre
02-05-2017, 11:18 PM
I was just talking only about the defense.

The number of possessions that an opponent gets depends on the team (not just the defense).

polamalubeast
02-05-2017, 11:23 PM
The number of possessions that an opponent gets depends on the team (not just the defense).

agreed

Mojouw
02-05-2017, 11:23 PM
I've never seen a defense play passive(Soft zone)like the steelers against the patriots and having success.Soft zone against the patriots.this is the white flag.

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The patriots were a different team when they had Randy Moss.


Exactly. Which is why dredging up a gameplan from 2011 doesn't move the needle for me at all when it comes to proving a point about 2016.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-patriots-2017-afc-championship/2017/1/26/14382000/steelers-film-room-pass-coverage-gaffes-doom-steelers-against-patriots-analysis

Watch the first GIF in the link. The backside options are all covered close EXCEPT for Hogan who Dupree and Golden BOTH release to follow Brady's eyes. That is a mistake in execution not scheme. No pass pressure and Brady has time to work back across the field and find the "dropped" coverage. Want to bet that an inexperienced Golden and Dupree screwed that up?

Now, why neither Harrison or Dupree is rushed on that play - that is a different discussion.

st33lersguy
02-05-2017, 11:24 PM
2 things the Steelers need in the draft, a CB that can cover man and another pass rusher.

Another thing that will help too is ball control on offense and keeping Brady off the field. Remember the 2011 beatdown? Steelers held the ball for 39:22. Good thing is Steelers do have the offense built for this. The run heavy formation with Nix, Hubbard at TE, and Johnson (the one that Crash despises so much) that can be used to control the clock and keep the Pats offense off the field

Steeldude
02-05-2017, 11:28 PM
NOPE, you can't back up now. You said in another thread, not winning the SB is a failure. Atlanta failed, just like we did. How doesn't matter, facts don't matter, only the final score matters. Atlanta was up 25pts with 2mins to go in the 3rd. If that were the Steelers, we would have been able to run the clock out. So quit your piling on of how terrible the Steelers are. You are a horrible fan.

I also said it depends. Did I say the Falcons season wasn't a failure? Yes or no? Don't back down like a liberal. See how your continuous whining and belly aching over opinions clouds your reading and comprehension.

If you don't like my posts then don't read them. Tuck your string back in and place me on ignore. I don't get why you liberals get so upset.

Oh no, you called me a horrible fan. Haha.

st33lersguy
02-05-2017, 11:29 PM
Falcons by the way had the ball for 23:27.

teegre
02-05-2017, 11:31 PM
2 things the Steelers need in the draft, a CB that can cover man and another pass rusher.

Another thing that will help too is ball control on offense and keeping Brady off the field. Remember the 2011 beatdown? Steelers held the ball for 39:22. Good thing is Steelers do have the offense built for this. The run heavy formation with Nix, Hubbard at TE, and Johnson (the one that Crash despises so much) that can be used to control the clock and keep the Pats offense off the field

Bingo!!!

As far as offensive gameplans go, the Steelers did alright in the AFCCG, except they just didn't score. 3 dropped TDs and an awful first-&-goal series is the difference in the game.

polamalubeast
02-05-2017, 11:34 PM
Just to say, that I do not think the steelers would have won, even if they would have played man to man for the entire game, but at least I would have said they tried.

pepsyman1
02-06-2017, 02:00 AM
Just to say, that I do not think the steelers would have won, even if they would have played man to man for the entire game, but at least I would have said they tried.

I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment. I don't expect the Steelers to play press man coverage for a whole game or even most of the game. I understand how their defensive scheme works, but a HUGE part of that scheme working is the offense not knowing where pressure is coming by bringing different people AND faking bringing people. We should be able to do the same thing with coverage. If they OCCASIONALLY play a press man coverage when they are blitzing, a QB like Brady doesn't get the opportunity to dump the outlet pass in less than 2 seconds because the receivers haven't gotten free. It's not possible to do that all game long, but when LeBeau used that approach in the 2011 game it gave Brady one more thing to consider. He had less opportunity to throw down field and had to dump to outlet receivers for most of his completions. Having some press man coverage should be PART of our approach. The Patriots started using a lot of that in the 3rd and 4th Qtr against the Falcons and they folded.

We play our best defense when we play aggressive. I can stomach getting beaten by the Patriots, but not the way we just gave it too them by playing passive. If we're gonna get beaten, I'd much rather know that we threw everything including the kitchen sink at them. If we press them tight on a lot of the plays, use smart blitzes from unexpected places and do everything we can to keep them guessing and they STILL beat us, then more power to them, they deserve to win. I'll live with it.

Born2Steel
02-06-2017, 07:44 AM
I also said it depends. Did I say the Falcons season wasn't a failure? Yes or no? Don't back down like a liberal. See how your continuous whining and belly aching over opinions clouds your reading and comprehension.

If you don't like my posts then don't read them. Tuck your string back in and place me on ignore. I don't get why you liberals get so upset.

Oh no, you called me a horrible fan. Haha.

Yeah, sorry about that. Not cool.

BTW, I'm what you would call a liberal conservative.....I don't agree with burning the flag, but wouldn't step on someone else's right to do it.

And I did not back down. I simply took my drunk ass to bed. Good morning. Shall we resume?

polamalubeast
02-06-2017, 08:01 AM
Hopefully I'm wrong, but I think the steelers will still play the zone against Brady next year, because Tomlin's ego is too big to admit his mistake.

Born2Steel
02-06-2017, 08:06 AM
Hopefully I'm wrong, but I think the steelers will still play the zone against Brady next year, because Tomlin's ego is too big to admit his mistake.

I think we will play a mix of zone and man, just like we did both games this season.

polamalubeast
02-06-2017, 08:22 AM
I think we will play a mix of zone and man, just like we did both games this season.



The Steelers need to change their strategy against Brady since the results are embarrassing!

I mean, Brady has a QB rating of 114 in career against the steelers, which is his highest in the nfl against an opponent....Against Tomlin, it's even worse(125 QB rating,21 TD,0 INT and 72% pass complete!!! on 7 games).