Dupree activated; Heyward & Wheaton to IR

[salamander]

http://www.steelers.com/news/transactions/article-1/Dupree-activated-Heyward-Wheaton-to-IR/8d4462cd-2ce6-49b0-b86b-97d0f564dceb

[Craic]

http://www.thisiscolossal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/carousel-1.gif

[Mojouw]

Anyone heard what is actually wrong with Wheaton? I know something with his shoulder...Or did the team simply sour on him, the contract situation, etc and this is an easy excuse to ease him out of town?

[tube517]

Anyone heard what is actually wrong with Wheaton? I know something with his shoulder...Or did the team simply sour on him, the contract situation, etc and this is an easy excuse to ease him out of town?

He was a healthy scratch for one game. Not sure why. The doghouse once occupied by Lance Moore has a new tenant???

[SteelMayhem72]

I think wheaton is done in pittsburgh...i dont think he was that injured, i think he was just sent a message of bye bye

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[SteelerFanInStl]

Wheaton sure went quietly in his final season. What a waste.

[BlackAndGold]

They wouldn't have put Wheaton on IR if he wasn't hurt.

His shoulder has been giving him issues all year.

[Mojouw]

They wouldn't have put Wheaton on IR if he wasn't hurt.

His shoulder has been giving him issues all year.

I kinda agree. I have to wonder if they at least offer him a "prove it" deal early in the off-season. Knows the system. Has shown flashes when healthy. Better than a rookie. Don't think his market will be all that large from the rest of the league. WR's with his skill-set are not exactly uncommon.

[WCSteeler]

Wheaton sure went quietly in his final season. What a waste.

Sadly there are quite a few "what a waste" players in the last few seasons, the culture needs to change before the team returns to glory

[Mojouw]

Sadly there are quite a few "what a waste" players in the last few seasons, the culture needs to change before the team returns to glory

Really? Who?

Jarvis Jones, Landry Jones, and Shamarko Thomas.

And?

Remember, no one would be worried about Wheaton if it wasn't a contract year. Having a player price himself out of your cap isn't really a "waste". Limas Sweed was 6 years ago at this point. That is well past the average length of an NFL career.

We all remember the "busts" but need to also remember, that they are mostly outside of an NFL average career at this point. Sweed, Jackson, Irvin, etc likely wouldn't be on the roster unless they were HOF caliber players anyway at this point.

We can talk about the army of 5th-7th round picks that didn't pan out recently - but really how many of those guys does any NFL franchise expect to be around past 1-3 years anyways? Terry Hawthorne would have been at best the kind of player you are drafting to replace every year.

I get really sick and tired of this uncontextualized hindsight is 20-20 history whenever this team loses. Any reasonable analysis has to conclude that the Steelers player acquisition is league average at worst, if not higher than that.

The starting LT and LG are undrafted. The starting TE's are basically late round picks. All of the WR's were round 3 or later picks (except DHB who wasn't a Steelers pick). Cobi Hamilton and Eli Rogers were not big touted prospects. Golden was a ST guy at first. Go through other rosters and see how those franchises are doing at key positions like the above.

Seriously, find me a LT as good as AV that was undrafted. The one before him was a 7th round pick I think? Yeah. this team is just chock full of wasted players.

[teegre]

Any reasonable analysis has to conclude that the Steelers player acquisition is league average at worst, if not higher than that.

For example... the Chargers have drafted two players that each have gone to one Pro Bowl (Stuckey, Verrett) in the past ten drafts. Weddle (in 2007) was the last perennial Pro Bowler.

[BlackAndGold]

I kinda agree. I have to wonder if they at least offer him a "prove it" deal early in the off-season. Knows the system. Has shown flashes when healthy. Better than a rookie. Don't think his market will be all that large from the rest of the league. WR's with his skill-set are not exactly uncommon.

I think he's good as gone.

I can see him going to NE or GB and thrive. He's got Emmanuel Sanders 2.0 written all over him. Still won't be shocked if he still get a good deal this off season.

[pczach]

Really? Who?

Jarvis Jones, Landry Jones, and Shamarko Thomas.

And?

Remember, no one would be worried about Wheaton if it wasn't a contract year. Having a player price himself out of your cap isn't really a "waste". Limas Sweed was 6 years ago at this point. That is well past the average length of an NFL career.

We all remember the "busts" but need to also remember, that they are mostly outside of an NFL average career at this point. Sweed, Jackson, Irvin, etc likely wouldn't be on the roster unless they were HOF caliber players anyway at this point.

We can talk about the army of 5th-7th round picks that didn't pan out recently - but really how many of those guys does any NFL franchise expect to be around past 1-3 years anyways? Terry Hawthorne would have been at best the kind of player you are drafting to replace every year.

I get really sick and tired of this uncontextualized hindsight is 20-20 history whenever this team loses. Any reasonable analysis has to conclude that the Steelers player acquisition is league average at worst, if not higher than that.

The starting LT and LG are undrafted. The starting TE's are basically late round picks. All of the WR's were round 3 or later picks (except DHB who wasn't a Steelers pick). Cobi Hamilton and Eli Rogers were not big touted prospects. Golden was a ST guy at first. Go through other rosters and see how those franchises are doing at key positions like the above.

Seriously, find me a LT as good as AV that was undrafted. The one before him was a 7th round pick I think? Yeah. this team is just chock full of wasted players.


So many fans live in a fantasy land where all drafted players are supposed to turn into productive starters. Reality doesn't work that way.

There is so little context, and the people making these negative claims against the organization have no idea what the failure rates are for every team in the NFL. They only overreact emotionally to their team's players that don't turn out to be stars.

It's frustrating to listen to some of this crap because they have no idea what they are talking about.

[Mojouw]

I think he's good as gone.

I can see him going to NE or GB and thrive. He's got Emmanuel Sanders 2.0 written all over him. Still won't be shocked if he still get a good deal this off season.

That's what my gut and logic says as well. Part of me wants his market to be mushy and the Steelers to be able to put a comparable short term offer on the table. In this scenario, Wheston takes it to rehab his value in a WR friendly offense. Now the Steelers don't have to count on inexperienced WRs in 2017

In reality, I think we are watching Eli Rogers make that argument invalid.


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[Mojouw]

For example... the Chargers have drafted two players that each have gone to one Pro Bowl (Stuckey, Verrett) in the past ten drafts. Weddle (in 2007) was the last perennial Pro Bowler.

I guess that explains why Phillip Rivers looks like he wants to maim someone so often on the sidelines. He's going to go down as one of the most unsupported QBs if all time. Early on he had good teammates. Adter that group came apart, not so much.

Is it just bad management out there, or why is that franchise seemingly adrift?


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[fansince'76]

So many fans live in a fantasy land where all drafted players are supposed to turn into productive starters. Reality doesn't work that way.

There is so little context, and the people making these negative claims against the organization have no idea what the failure rates are for every team in the NFL. They only overreact emotionally to their team's players that don't turn out to be stars.

It's frustrating to listen to some of this crap because they have no idea what they are talking about.

:applaudit:

It's also much easier to simply declare "ZOMG! TAWMLIN AND COALBURT SUX! FIAR EVEYBODDY!" :jerkit:

[43Hitman]

I guess that explains why Phillip Rivers looks like he wants to maim someone so often on the sidelines. He's going to go down as one of the most unsupported QBs if all time. Early on he had good teammates. Adter that group came apart, not so much.

Is it just bad management out there, or why is that franchise seemingly adrift?


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Honestly, I think they made their mistake when they fired Shotty.

[Edman]

I guess that explains why Phillip Rivers looks like he wants to maim someone so often on the sidelines. He's going to go down as one of the most unsupported QBs if all time. Early on he had good teammates. Adter that group came apart, not so much.

Is it just bad management out there, or why is that franchise seemingly adrift?


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The Chargers were dead in the water when they fired Schottenheimer. Don't care how that 2006 season turned out, Marty had that team competing at a high level.

[BlackAndGold]

That's what my gut and logic says as well. Part of me wants his market to be mushy and the Steelers to be able to put a comparable short term offer on the table. In this scenario, Wheston takes it to rehab his value in a WR friendly offense. Now the Steelers don't have to count on inexperienced WRs in 2017

In reality, I think we are watching Eli Rogers make that argument invalid.


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With Bryant also returning(eye roll), I just think Wheaton will just look elsewhere cause he'll just fall down the depth chart(has happened his whole Steelers career)

I don't believe the WR's will be that bad/inexperienced. Let's say Bryant does return, and keeps his head on straight. The WR core will be... AB, Bryant, Coates, Rogers, Hamilton & Ayers(who imo, if he stayed another year at college he'd have gone in the middle rounds of the draft)

[teegre]

I guess that explains why Phillip Rivers looks like he wants to maim someone so often on the sidelines. He's going to go down as one of the most unsupported QBs if all time. Early on he had good teammates. Adter that group came apart, not so much.

Is it just bad management out there, or why is that franchise seemingly adrift?


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AJ Smith's ego is responsible. It fired Marty Schottenheimer. Marty is an excellent evaluator of talent; hence, those teams were built by him (not by AJ). Once Marty's players moved on, AJ could not replace them (i.e. AJ had horrible drafts).

More recently, even though I know that it's actually not true, I swear that they are self-sabotaging (in an effort to move to LA). Case in point: the way that they treated Eric Weddle and then chased him out of town.

[WCSteeler]

So many fans live in a fantasy land where all drafted players are supposed to turn into productive starters. Reality doesn't work that way.

There is so little context, and the people making these negative claims against the organization have no idea what the failure rates are for every team in the NFL. They only overreact emotionally to their team's players that don't turn out to be stars.

It's frustrating to listen to some of this crap because they have no idea what they are talking about.

With the exception of this game what had the Steeler defense looked like this season? The Steelers defensive playmakers include Shazier and Hayward.Who else has stepped up for this defense? What's frustrating is apologist, this franchise has spent countless high draft picks and they have what to show for it? When the Steelers play legitimate teams what does the defense generally look like? This game was played against an 0-10 football team on their 3rd QB with no playmaker. I'm happy for the win but this "failure rate" you speak of is crappie. The Steelers have focused their efforts on rebuilding the defense and it's resulted in a team ranked quite low and if you believe the standard is truly the standard what does this say for what the Steelers have become?

[BigBen2004]

The Steelers have the playmakers on defense. It's evident.

Sean Davis has shown flashes, as a rookie. Artie B has shown flashes, as a rookie. Hargrave is finally getting a chance, and he played well today.
I personally believe that the issues stem from mental errors, and ineffective gameplans. Are they a shutdown defense? Absolutely not. But, they are good enough in their current state. The coaching just has to be better. It needs to be consistent.

Let's see if this win turns into a streak. This could be that late season push.

[Mojouw]

With the exception of this game what had the Steeler defense looked like this season? The Steelers defensive playmakers include Shazier and Hayward.Who else has stepped up for this defense? What's frustrating is apologist, this franchise has spent countless high draft picks and they have what to show for it? When the Steelers play legitimate teams what does the defense generally look like? This game was played against an 0-10 football team on their 3rd QB with no playmaker. I'm happy for the win but this "failure rate" you speak of is crappie. The Steelers have focused their efforts on rebuilding the defense and it's resulted in a team ranked quite low and if you believe the standard is truly the standard what does this say for what the Steelers have become?

Again, I ask, other than Jarvis Jones and Shamarko Thomas, what have been the failures on the defense through the draft? It is too early to pass judgement on the 2016 class. Dupree and Golson get incompletes. But Shazier, Tuitt, Heyward - look like legitimate 1st round draft picks to me. But, what do I know?

[teegre]

With the exception of this game what had the Steeler defense looked like this season? The Steelers defensive playmakers include Shazier and Hayward.Who else has stepped up for this defense? What's frustrating is apologist, this franchise has spent countless high draft picks and they have what to show for it? When the Steelers play legitimate teams what does the defense generally look like? This game was played against an 0-10 football team on their 3rd QB with no playmaker. I'm happy for the win but this "failure rate" you speak of is crappie. The Steelers have focused their efforts on rebuilding the defense and it's resulted in a team ranked quite low and if you believe the standard is truly the standard what does this say for what the Steelers have become?

16, 16, shit show...
14, 13, shit show...
#1 seed in AFC... 21...
#1 seed in NFC... 9...

Young players are notoriously inconsistent.

Tuitt: stud
Hargrave: young
Heyward: stud

Jones: bust
Timmons: aging
Shazier: stud
Dupree: young

Burns: young
Gay: aging
Cockrell: young
Davis: young
Mitchell: bugs the crap outta me

[WCSteeler]

Again, I ask, other than Jarvis Jones and Shamarko Thomas, what have been the failures on the defense through the draft? It is too early to pass judgement on the 2016 class. Dupree and Golson get incompletes. But Shazier, Tuitt, Heyward - look like legitimate 1st round draft picks to me. But, what do I know?

Tuitt I like but the guy has been manhandled all season long. Why list who has been failures when it's much easier to list the playmakers (Hayward,Shazier). The focus of the Steelers has been rebuilding the defense and it's unfair to label the 2016 draft class as unsuccessful but I'm looking at the defense as it stands now.

[Mojouw]

Tuitt I like but the guy has been manhandled all season long. Why list who has been failures when it's much easier to list the playmakers (Hayward,Shazier). The focus of the Steelers has been rebuilding the defense and it's unfair to label the 2016 draft class as unsuccessful but I'm looking at the defense as it stands now.

Im not sure I'm following you. If your argument is that the "rebuild the defense through the draft" strategy has not worked we absolutely have to talk about failures or at least some evaluation of return on investment.

Like I have previously stated I put forth that when healthy (also known as the Shazier exception) almost all of the high round (1 thru 3) have paid out. Jones and Shamarko have not. Golson has not and likely never will due to injury but that can't really be blamed on anyone.

So I will ask again, what is the argument you are making? The draft picks were/are bad? The defense isn't getting better fast enough? Or are you just venting? All of which are okay, but need to be clear.


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[Craic]

Tuitt I like but the guy has been manhandled all season long. Why list who has been failures when it's much easier to list the playmakers (Hayward,Shazier). The focus of the Steelers has been rebuilding the defense and it's unfair to label the 2016 draft class as unsuccessful but I'm looking at the defense as it stands now.

Wait . . . you think, in this day and age, that a team with a top five player in four offensive positions, can actually have more than two playmakers on defense? Good luck with that. Perhaps, you mean solid defensive players. Then again, maybe not, as we have a decent number of solid, or up and coming and looking to be solid defensive players.

[BlackAndGold]

Mitchell: bugs the crap outta me

:chuckle: So true.

Believe this speaks for almost everyone.

[pczach]

With the exception of this game what had the Steeler defense looked like this season? The Steelers defensive playmakers include Shazier and Hayward.Who else has stepped up for this defense? What's frustrating is apologist, this franchise has spent countless high draft picks and they have what to show for it? When the Steelers play legitimate teams what does the defense generally look like? This game was played against an 0-10 football team on their 3rd QB with no playmaker. I'm happy for the win but this "failure rate" you speak of is crappie. The Steelers have focused their efforts on rebuilding the defense and it's resulted in a team ranked quite low and if you believe the standard is truly the standard what does this say for what the Steelers have become?


The people above me have addressed your post well.

I still believe that this defense is going to be very good. They allowed the defense to get very old in an attempt to win another super bowl. We have seen the effects of that by having young players all over the field.

Teegre did a good job breaking it down position by position. The talent has been gathered. They are another pass rusher and a safety away from being a very good defense IMO. Dupree hadn't played a down until yesterday. He has been the only edge pass rusher this team has, and he hasn't seen the field. We know Jones is not good. Overall, I'm excited about the talent they have acquired.

The talent they have built up at the CB position is impressive when you consider what that group looked like just one year ago.

I know it may be hard to see, but with a healthy Tuitt, Hargrave, Heyward, and McCullers....I really like this group up front.

Dupree, Shazier, and Timmons are good. Add another OLB that can rush the passer and you have a formidable front 7. Timmons replacement should be drafted if they think he's not on the roster.

What they now have at CB is impressive. Burns, Cockrell, Gay, Gilbert, and Golson. That is a HUGE upgrade from just last year. Burns and Gilbert have elite talent. I see a very bright future at this position.

Mitchell, Davis, Golden, Thomas, Dangerfield at S is not the strongest group. Mitchell annoys me too with some of the stuff on the field, but when he's put in a position to just hit people, he is as good at that as anyone in the NFL. He also can play either safety position. If they can acquire a playmaker at safety, they would be strong with this unit too.

Overall, they have almost all the talent they need to be very good on that side of the ball. They now have gotten some experience this year. I truly believe next year is the year for this defense to show its teeth with everyone healthy and in the system long enough to make a difference.

[pepsyman1]

The people above me have addressed your post well.

I still believe that this defense is going to be very good. They allowed the defense to get very old in an attempt to win another super bowl. We have seen the effects of that by having young players all over the field.

Teegre did a good job breaking it down position by position. The talent has been gathered. They are another pass rusher and a safety away from being a very good defense IMO. Dupree hadn't played a down until yesterday. He has been the only edge pass rusher this team has, and he hasn't seen the field. We know Jones is not good. Overall, I'm excited about the talent they have acquired.

The talent they have built up at the CB position is impressive when you consider what that group looked like just one year ago.

I know it may be hard to see, but with a healthy Tuitt, Hargrave, Heyward, and McCullers....I really like this group up front.

Dupree, Shazier, and Timmons are good. Add another OLB that can rush the passer and you have a formidable front 7. Timmons replacement should be drafted if they think he's not on the roster.

What they now have at CB is impressive. Burns, Cockrell, Gay, Gilbert, and Golson. That is a HUGE upgrade from just last year. Burns and Gilbert have elite talent. I see a very bright future at this position.

Mitchell, Golden, Thomas, Dangerfield at S is not the strongest group. Mitchell annoys me too with some of the stuff on the field, but when he's put in a position to just hit people, he is as good at that as anyone in the NFL. He also can play either safety position. If they can acquire a playmaker at safety, they would be strong with this unit too.

Overall, they have almost all the talent they need to be very good on that side of the ball. They now have gotten some experience this year. I truly believe next year is the year for this defense to show its teeth with everyone healthy and in the system long enough to make a difference.

I think when this secondary gets enough time to gel and develop (and I would hope for a better safety than Mitchell at some point) this defense will really turn into something special. Until then, I think Butler is going to do what he can to limit the chances they take...We need another solid pass rusher, (or let Timmons switch to OLB for a season or two until he hangs it up), but I think we have the makings of a great defense.

[86WARD]

If Timmons goes outside, there's a gaping hole inside. They may be able to address that issue via free agency. I expect them to be un-Steeler like this off-season and bring in a few if not more veteran talent. They should have a nice chunk of change to do so even after signing "their guys".

[Born2Steel]

I think when this secondary gets enough time to gel and develop (and I would hope for a better safety than Mitchell at some point) this defense will really turn into something special. Until then, I think Butler is going to do what he can to limit the chances they take...We need another solid pass rusher, (or let Timmons switch to OLB for a season or two until he hangs it up), but I think we have the makings of a great defense.

Heard Mike Golic this morning say, "If you're going to be good at only one thing on defense, be good at rushing the QB". They were talking about the Raiders, but wise words still. A good pass rush makes the entire rest of the defense better. Our DBs are playing well enough now that if we can start generating a consistent pass rush, this could turn quickly into a very good defense now.

[pczach]

I think when this secondary gets enough time to gel and develop (and I would hope for a better safety than Mitchell at some point) this defense will really turn into something special. Until then, I think Butler is going to do what he can to limit the chances they take...We need another solid pass rusher, (or let Timmons switch to OLB for a season or two until he hangs it up), but I think we have the makings of a great defense.

I agree.

They are now experienced. In my opinion, they are close to taking a giant leap forward. We may not see it until next year, but the talent is now there. Add a player or two, and this defense could be dynamite.

[teegre]

Heard Mike Golic this morning say, "If you're going to be good at only one thing on defense, be good at rushing the QB". They were talking about the Raiders, but wise words still. A good pass rush makes the entire rest of the defense better. Our DBs are playing well enough now that if we can start generating a consistent pass rush, this could turn quickly into a very good defense now.

Yep.

I've recounted on here, numerous times, Damien Woody's response to the question about "OLB vs CB".

In a nutshell, Woody stated:
"Darrelle Revis was the best player that I've ever played with. But... if I had to choose one player to have on defense, it'd be James Harrison. A good CB is able to take one player completely out of a game, but the QB could still go to his second and third options. Whereas, a good OLB disrupts the QB, which takes away ALL of his options."

[SteelMember]

I'm hoping we see more than one snap from Dupree tomorrow night...

[Rara]

Dupree should be 100% and ready to go if they activated him...one snap was ridiculous.

I see the Steelers going after a linebacker in the first round again.

Targets who I'd like to see in the draft:

Devonte Fields, OLB; Lousiville

Taco Charlton, DE; Michigan

Sam Hubbard, DE; Ohio State (I think he'll be this year's Joey Bosa)

Targets who I'd like to see in free agency:

Chandler Jones
Chad Greenway

[DesertSteel]

I'm hoping we see more than one snap from Dupree tomorrow night...
Two would be nice.

[pczach]

Two would be nice.


Whoa! Slow down there Smokey! We don't want to overwork him. :chuckle:

[cold-hard-steel]

Dupree could be a huge difference maker . Nothing can make your secondary better(less noticeable) than a good,consistant, strong pass rush . Little old school wisdom .

[teegre]

Dupree is being worked in slowly.

Hargrave is is looking very good at DE. (Last week, Tuitt stepped up his game; this week, it was Hargrave's turn.)

[86WARD]

He looked really good actually...

[Mojouw]

Hargrave is a far better DE right now than a DT. I think we are all going to see why he was drafted the next several weeks.

Dupree just makes me giggle when he is on the field. He is so much quicker and more athletic than any other linebacker on the roster not named Shazier

[SteelerFanInStl]

Hargrave is a far better DE right now than a DT. I think we are all going to see why he was drafted the next several weeks.

Dupree just makes me giggle when he is on the field. He is so much quicker and more athletic than any other linebacker on the roster not named Shazier

I agree on both points. I don't think that Hargrave is stout enough to be a good NT. Dupree can be a monster in our D. He has the size, strength, speed and athleticism needed.

[teegre]

Hargrave is a far better DE right now than a DT. I think we are all going to see why he was drafted the next several weeks.

Next season, when Heyward comes back, I would love to see a 67%, 66%, 66% split at DE, between Heyward, Tuitt, & Hargrave.

Keep them well rested, and in turn, the three of them can go "all out" when they are on the field.


I know that we all want an OLB in R1, but maybe NT Lowell Lotulelei gets some consideration...

[Psycho Ward 86]

He looked really good actually...

What did you see? I didnt pay nearly enough attention to Bud during the game, but i do recall a play where he really whooped the Colts LT who is supposed to be the one legit OL on that squad

[86WARD]

What did you see? I didnt pay nearly enough attention to Bud during the game, but i do recall a play where he really whooped the Colts LT who is supposed to be the one legit OL on that squad

I was referring to Hargrave. Dupree I saw flying around a few times...looked like Jarvis Jones to be honest...lol

[Mojouw]

For Dupree, there was one play that sums it up for me. He started over the tackle, took a step or two to the outside and then looped into the center guard gap. On the way he took another half step towards the guard to fake him out.

Basically with itch speed and quickness he held the tackle outside, almost made the guard trip over his own two feet and came roaring up the middle for a hit on he QB.

Jarvis couldn't accomplish all that in 3 plays, let alone the 3 seconds Dupree did it in.

[tube517]

I was referring to Hargrave. Dupree I saw flying around a few times...looked like Jarvis Jones to be honest...lol


Dupree had 2 tackles in 20 snaps.


Jarvis won the Stupid Mannequin challenge in 26 snaps.

[Psycho Ward 86]

For Dupree, there was one play that sums it up for me. He started over the tackle, took a step or two to the outside and then looped into the center guard gap. On the way he took another half step towards the guard to fake him out.

Basically with itch speed and quickness he held the tackle outside, almost made the guard trip over his own two feet and came roaring up the middle for a hit on he QB.

Jarvis couldn't accomplish all that in 3 plays, let alone the 3 seconds Dupree did it in.

thats encouraging i suppose, but kind of what we expect of him from a physical standpoint. how was his hand fighting? thats the one thing thats going to take his game to a whole different level