Steelers LB James Harrison: ‘We Are Quite Terrible’

[Shoes]

The Pittsburgh Steelers had a chance to beat theDallas Cowboys Sunday at Heinz Field but their defense couldn’t seal the deal when it mattered the most.
With 42 seconds left in the game and the Steelers leading 30-29, the Cowboys offense took the field at their own 25-yard-line and proceeded to march right down the grass for the go-ahead touchdown in just five plays.
That final drive included rookie safetySean Davisbeing flagged for a facemask penalty on Cowboys tight endJason Wittenat the Steelers 47-yard-line following a 5-yard reception on a 1st and 10 play. On the very next play, Cowboys running back Ezekiel Elliott galloped 32 yards for a touchdown.
After the game, Steelers linebackerJames Harrisonput it best.
“It was totally shitty. We are quite terrible,” Harrison said, according to Aditi Kinkhabwala of the NFL Network on Twitter.
Harrison is exactly right.
On the previous Cowboys offensive possession, the Steelers defense gave up a 10 play, 75 yard drive that also culminated in a easy Elliott touchdown. Elliott finished the game with 114 yards rushing and 95 yards receiving on his way to scoring three touchdowns.
Don’t expect the Steelers to improve much, if any, the remainder of the season. They can’t stop the run when it matters the most and the young players aren’t stepping up.
Yes, this is a totally shitty defense.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/11/steelers-lb-james-harrison-quite-terrible/

[st33lersguy]

I feel bad for him

[tube517]

I should have thrown a cockring on the field. Oh, wait......

[Steeldude]

Best player on the defense sits during the final drive. I tolerated Tomlin, but no more. This is a poorly coached team. The players are far more interested in celebrating and trying to solo-plays than actually working as a unit.

[zulater]

If we had a 5 point lead going into that last Dallas series the whole complexion of that series changes. Blame this loss entirely on chasing those missed extra points all game.

[st33lersguy]

If we had a 5 point lead going into that last Dallas series the whole complexion of that series changes. Blame this loss entirely on chasing those missed extra points all game.

Our defense would still blow it

[86WARD]

If we had a 5 point lead going into that last Dallas series the whole complexion of that series changes. Blame this loss entirely on chasing those missed extra points all game.

Agree. The whole game flow changes.

As for Harrison's comments...it's true and it gives me a feeling that Tomlin is starting to lose the team...

[Count Steeler]

Harrison and Ben speaking out. The slippery slope is here.

[Born2Steel]

Each week it's a different complaint. After the Ravens, it was this offense is terrible. We thought the offense was the strength. Defense played great and the offense let us down. ETC...Now it's the terrible defense.

Our defense had a bad game. They did. Mostly, and this may just be my opinion only, but mostly because the Cowboys have arguably the best Oline in the league. Win the trenches usually wins the game. Fans complain the young guys don't get any snaps and waste away on the bench in lieu of the same old guys. That's not happening this year and we are seeing rookie mistakes, plus guys who haven't played together, at all, learning to be a team. We're only 5-6 wins away from most likely winning this terrible division.

That last Cowboy drive saw 3 passes to Whitten, plus the 15 yarder, for first downs. Adjust to stop that and Zeke tears one up the middle for a score. Which, by the way, we still have no NG, especially against this OL, and ILBs dropped into coverage to help the DBs. Even I saw that one coming. But what is the answer for that. We still took the ball down the field and into FG range for the win. Just ran out of clock. Coulda/ shoulda won. But we didn't. Moving on to next week and the Browns.

[Edman]

Each week it's a different complaint. After the Ravens, it was this offense is terrible. We thought the offense was the strength. Defense played great and the offense let us down. ETC...Now it's the terrible defense.

Everyone taking turns fucking up each week. Finding different ways to lose. Its not just one issue, it's many different issues at once. Watch Ben and the Offense stink up the joint on the road in Cleveland.

That is the sign of a bad team. This is a bad team. That question remaining now is...just how bad are they.

[Born2Steel]

Everyone taking turns fucking up each week. Finding different ways to lose. Its not just one issue, it's many different issues at once. Watch Ben and the Offense stink up the joint on the road in Cleveland.

That is the sign of a bad team. This is a bad team. That question remaining now is...just how bad are they.

How will they "stink it up" exactly? What does that crystal ball of yours have to say? Anything other than constant negativity?

[86WARD]

There's precedent for them stinking up...the negativity was brought upon this message board by the team...it's not just one loss to a crappy team...it's the constant losing to shitty teams.

[Hawkman]

Hmmmmm, shitty teams. Of the five teams that we have lost to, none of them has a losing record. So which ones are basement dwelling teams? Combined 30-15.

[teegre]

Hmmmmm, shitty teams. Of the five teams that we have lost to, none of them has a losing record. So which ones are basement dwelling teams? Combined 30-15.


I was just about to post this. It deserves its own thread.

[Mojouw]

Hmmmmm, shitty teams. Of the five teams that we have lost to, none of them has a losing record. So which ones are basement dwelling teams? Combined 30-15.

Shhhhh! You're going to ruin the echo chamber that everyone seals themselves in after a loss.

[teegre]

Fun fact:
At one point this season, the Cowboys were a sub .500 team... and thus, the Steelers were destined to lose to them.

[SteelMayhem72]

ive said it for a while now>>>>>>this team rarely puts a complete game together in all 3 phases

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[zulater]

ive said it for a while now>>>>>>this team rarely puts a complete game together in all 3 phases

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Truer words have not been spoken!

[zulater]

Hmmmmm, shitty teams. Of the five teams that we have lost to, none of them has a losing record. So which ones are basement dwelling teams? Combined 30-15.

Spin doctoring. I can do that too.

First off the Eagles are in fact the "basement dweller" of the NFC east at the moment a half game behind the 5-3-1 Redskins . :lol:

Regardless, take away the Cowboys and Patriots, then subtract the Steeler wins from our other 3 vanquishers and you've got 3 losses to .500 teams. Miami, the Ravens and the Eagles are the definition of middle of the pack mediocrity. In fairness you can throw in the Redskins to this mix (at 5-3-1) so against mediocre- middling teams we're 1-3. You can't really think that's acceptable? :noidea:

Further we got our asses handed to us in two of those games. Throw out a couple late touchdowns against the Ravens we were dominated by a team that was pinned to the mat for a good part of 3 quarters against the Browns last week. Hell look at the Ravens overall season. Besides us their 4 wins have come at the expense of the Browns (x2, struggled in both) 2-7 Jacksonville, and sub .500 Buffalo.

To summarize we're a 4-5 team on merit. That's not saying things can't be turned around. But in order for things to be turned around a whole lot of Steelers players are going to have to start playing better, and maybe even more important the coaching staff needs to get their collective head out of their own asses! :frusty:

[SteelMayhem72]

If Tomlin were to ever be fired, I wish the steelers would make a run at getting tom coughlin...he is itching to get back in coaching and he already would have a hall of fame qb...i think he would definitely take the job....any thoughts?

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[fansince'76]

If Tomlin were to ever be fired, I wish the steelers would make a run at getting tom coughlin...he is itching to get back in coaching and he already would have a hall of fame qb...i think he would definitely take the job....any thoughts?

If only he weren't about 150 years old...

Oh, and 9-7/10-6 Super Bowl seasons for him were the norm. In most years, that kind of record doesn't even get you a wildcard berth in the AFC North.

Honestly, he really wouldn't be an upgrade over Tomlin - fate smiled upon him and his team just happened to catch lightning in a bottle at precisely the right time on two occasions. Just look at the rest of his tenure in New York:

2004: 6-10
2005: 11-5
2006: 8-8
2007: 10-6
2008: 12-4
2009: 8-8
2010: 10-6
2011: 9-7
2012: 9-7
2013: 7-9
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10

So, 4 times in 12 seasons, he managed to crack 10 wins. Sorry, if the Steelers ARE going to make a move, I want someone markedly better (and younger).

I'd actually be open to Jim Harbaugh if I didn't think we'd be sifting through the wreckage of what used to be a professional football franchise for a good decade after he wore out his welcome in 3-4 years. That guy is apparently such an ass that guys RETIRE just to get away from him.

[SteelMayhem72]

If only he weren't about 150 years old...

Oh, and 9-7/10-6 Super Bowl seasons for him were the norm. In most years, that kind of record doesn't even get you a wildcard berth in the AFC North.

Honestly, he really wouldn't be an upgrade over Tomlin - fate smiled upon him and his team just happened to catch lightning in a bottle at precisely the right time on two occasions. Just look at the rest of his tenure in New York:

2004: 6-10
2005: 11-5
2006: 8-8
2007: 10-6
2008: 12-4
2009: 8-8
2010: 10-6
2011: 9-7
2012: 9-7
2013: 7-9
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10

So, 4 times in 12 seasons, he managed to crack 10 wins. Sorry, if the Steelers ARE going to make a move, I want someone markedly better (and younger).

I'd actually be open to Jim Harbaugh if I didn't think we'd be sifting through the wreckage of what used to be a professional football franchise for a good decade after he wore out his welcome in 3-4 years. That guy is apparently such an ass that guys RETIRE just to get away from him.
honest assesment

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[steelreserve]

Each week it's a different complaint. After the Ravens, it was this offense is terrible. We thought the offense was the strength. Defense played great and the offense let us down. ETC...Now it's the terrible defense.

Does that have to do with the fans just bitching because they don't know what they are talking about? Or does it have to do with the team being wildly inconsistent - either unit has a great chance of failing, you just don't know which on any given day or what the reason will be, but it's still a high chance of failing.



Our defense had a bad game. They did. Mostly, and this may just be my opinion only, but mostly because the Cowboys have arguably the best Oline in the league. Win the trenches usually wins the game. Fans complain the young guys don't get any snaps and waste away on the bench in lieu of the same old guys. That's not happening this year and we are seeing rookie mistakes, plus guys who haven't played together, at all, learning to be a team. We're only 5-6 wins away from most likely winning this terrible division.

There are only seven games left. 6-1 the rest of the way gets us to 10 wins. Most likely we end up 9-7 or worse. That's mediocrity, son.




Hmmmmm, shitty teams. Of the five teams that we have lost to, none of them has a losing record. So which ones are basement dwelling teams? Combined 30-15.


I was just about to post this. It deserves its own thread.


OK, five of those wins by opponents are BECAUSE we lost to them. So an effective 25-15. Now let's ignore the New England game for the moment, because we had our backup QB and pretty much expected to lose that one, so it's safe to say it's not one we are talking about when we complain about losing to bad teams. So an effective 19-13 - a .593 winning percentage. We are hardly losing to world-beaters.

Consider that the Cowboys were one of the remaining games, and the losses we could complain about are against opponents with a record of 12-12 other than against us. The Dolphins, Eagles and Ravens.

Now, how were those losses? Actually, we got our asses handed to us in all three of them. We were never really in the game at all. Who have we beaten? Redskins, Bengals, Chiefs, and Jets. Four teams whose win/loss records cancel each other out almost exactly; they win 51% of the time.

So in summary, we've played three "top-tier" teams, or what passes for them this year, and we're 1-2 against them; then the rest against mediocre teams and we've gone 3-3. I've got news for you, we belong right in the middle of the .500 football teams.

To top it off, we've lost four games in a row and 5 of 7. We haven't played with any fire for over a month. I hate to break it to you, but it's not just complaining - we are in a tailspin. We are a game behind in the division plus the tiebreaker. We're three games behind in the wild card, tied for fifth with two other teams, and the third-place team owns the tiebreaker over us and we're not getting it back. People act like it's going to be no problem to run off 6 wins in a row, but at this point it also wouldn't be surprising to lose any game including the Browns.

Can they turn it around? Quite possibly; this team is so on-and-off that anything could happen. But unless they can flip some switch that I don't even know exists, that's no way to compete for a championship, and my expectations are more like "good luck, but probably see you in 2017."

[Steeldude]

If only he weren't about 150 years old...

Oh, and 9-7/10-6 Super Bowl seasons for him were the norm. In most years, that kind of record doesn't even get you a wildcard berth in the AFC North.

Honestly, he really wouldn't be an upgrade over Tomlin - fate smiled upon him and his team just happened to catch lightning in a bottle at precisely the right time on two occasions. Just look at the rest of his tenure in New York:

2004: 6-10
2005: 11-5
2006: 8-8
2007: 10-6
2008: 12-4
2009: 8-8
2010: 10-6
2011: 9-7
2012: 9-7
2013: 7-9
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10

So, 4 times in 12 seasons, he managed to crack 10 wins. Sorry, if the Steelers ARE going to make a move, I want someone markedly better (and younger).

I'd actually be open to Jim Harbaugh if I didn't think we'd be sifting through the wreckage of what used to be a professional football franchise for a good decade after he wore out his welcome in 3-4 years. That guy is apparently such an ass that guys RETIRE just to get away from him.

How about Sean McDermott?

[Born2Steel]

Does that have to do with the fans just bitching because they don't know what they are talking about? Or does it have to do with the team being wildly inconsistent - either unit has a great chance of failing, you just don't know which on any given day or what the reason will be, but it's still a high chance of failing.




There are only seven games left. 6-1 the rest of the way gets us to 10 wins. Most likely we end up 9-7 or worse. That's mediocrity, son.








OK, five of those wins by opponents are BECAUSE we lost to them. So an effective 25-15. Now let's ignore the New England game for the moment, because we had our backup QB and pretty much expected to lose that one, so it's safe to say it's not one we are talking about when we complain about losing to bad teams. So an effective 19-13 - a .593 winning percentage. We are hardly losing to world-beaters.

Consider that the Cowboys were one of the remaining games, and the losses we could complain about are against opponents with a record of 12-12 other than against us. The Dolphins, Eagles and Ravens.

Now, how were those losses? Actually, we got our asses handed to us in all three of them. We were never really in the game at all. Who have we beaten? Redskins, Bengals, Chiefs, and Jets. Four teams whose win/loss records cancel each other out almost exactly; they win 51% of the time.

So in summary, we've played three "top-tier" teams, or what passes for them this year, and we're 1-2 against them; then the rest against mediocre teams and we've gone 3-3. I've got news for you, we belong right in the middle of the .500 football teams.

To top it off, we've lost four games in a row and 5 of 7. We haven't played with any fire for over a month. I hate to break it to you, but it's not just complaining - we are in a tailspin. We are a game behind in the division plus the tiebreaker. We're three games behind in the wild card, tied for fifth with two other teams, and the third-place team owns the tiebreaker over us and we're not getting it back. People act like it's going to be no problem to run off 6 wins in a row, but at this point it also wouldn't be surprising to lose any game including the Browns.

Can they turn it around? Quite possibly; this team is so on-and-off that anything could happen. But unless they can flip some switch that I don't even know exists, that's no way to compete for a championship, and my expectations are more like "good luck, but probably see you in 2017."

To my way of looking at it, fans continue to cheer on the team no matter how many points behind they get. True fans don't throw away a season's hopes just because things look dim and hopeless. There's always the next down, game, next man up. My biggest bitch on this forum has been all of the complete negativity and poor mouthing everyone on the Steelers from the coaches, to the players, to the med staff, to the parkinglot vendors. You don't sound like fans to me. You sound more like a bunch of whiny Bengal bitches to me, son.

[Mojouw]

How about Sean McDermott?

The Sean McDermott who has the Carolina Defense ranked below the Steelers defense? The coordinator who only really lost Josh Norman from last season's defense and then HAD NO plan to replace him? The coordinator who has been cutting DB's in a desperate search for an answer?

That Sean McDermott? That is the head coach who would do things differently? I swear, I'm starting to think no one watches any actual football around here.

I mean I guess Norv Turner is free too...

[steelreserve]

To my way of looking at it, fans continue to cheer on the team no matter how many points behind they get. True fans don't throw away a season's hopes just because things look dim and hopeless. There's always the next down, game, next man up. My biggest bitch on this forum has been all of the complete negativity and poor mouthing everyone on the Steelers from the coaches, to the players, to the med staff, to the parkinglot vendors. You don't sound like fans to me. You sound more like a bunch of whiny Bengal bitches to me, son.

You think I'm rooting for the team to lose?

There's a difference between being a pessimist and a realist. The reality is that we are a below-.500 team and we have earned that for good reason.

There is a difference between being a fan and a cheerleader.

[Steeldude]

The Sean McDermott who has the Carolina Defense ranked below the Steelers defense? The coordinator who only really lost Josh Norman from last season's defense and then HAD NO plan to replace him? The coordinator who has been cutting DB's in a desperate search for an answer?

That Sean McDermott? That is the head coach who would do things differently? I swear, I'm starting to think no one watches any actual football around here.

I mean I guess Norv Turner is free too...

One suggestion out of many possible candidates. Anything is better than Tomlin's constant stupidity. I suppose he could do like Tomlin by trading away draft picks for DBs, sit them on the bench the entire season and then release them.

Isn't Carolina's defense #2 against the run? Aren't they 5th in the league in total sacks?

Do you have any suggestions?

[Mojouw]

One suggestion out of many possible candidates. Anything is better than Tomlin's constant stupidity.

Do you have any suggestions?

I haven't thought about it. But so far the two suggestions offered here are trading one supposed version of mediocre and stupid with another version of definitely mediocre and stupid.

I would personally consider firing Butler at the end of the season and finding the most creative defensive coordinator candidate I could find - either in college or the NFL. I think the Steelers have some interesting personnel on defense, but have gotten locked in to only seeing one way to use them. I think that means Lake and Porter likely gotta go as well.

But, then I'm not really a fan of firing coaches...

[Shoes]

I haven't thought about it. But so far the two suggestions offered here are trading one supposed version of mediocre and stupid with another version of definitely mediocre and stupid.

I would personally consider firing Butler at the end of the season and finding the most creative defensive coordinator candidate I could find - either in college or the NFL. I think the Steelers have some interesting personnel on defense, but have gotten locked in to only seeing one way to use them. I think that means Lake and Porter likely gotta go as well.

But, then I'm not really a fan of firing coaches...


I said the Steelers should have interviewed high and low before hiring Butler. Unfortunately they hung on to LeBeau too long and probably made promises to Butler they shouldn't have. I hope this changes when Art II takes total control.

[zulater]

To my way of looking at it, fans continue to cheer on the team no matter how many points behind they get. True fans don't throw away a season's hopes just because things look dim and hopeless. There's always the next down, game, next man up. My biggest bitch on this forum has been all of the complete negativity and poor mouthing everyone on the Steelers from the coaches, to the players, to the med staff, to the parkinglot vendors. You don't sound like fans to me. You sound more like a bunch of whiny Bengal bitches to me, son.

First off. No one on this site is your fucking son, so enough with that shit.

Second just because you voice your displeasure with the team doesn't make you less of a fan. We're still watching every play and hoping for the best. But when the results are bad you can either bury your head in the sand and pretend it's all good, or you can vent your frustration in these forums. Everyone has the right to handle it as they please. Don't like it, ignore what bothers you. :coffee:

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I haven't thought about it. But so far the two suggestions offered here are trading one supposed version of mediocre and stupid with another version of definitely mediocre and stupid.

I would personally consider firing Butler at the end of the season and finding the most creative defensive coordinator candidate I could find - either in college or the NFL. I think the Steelers have some interesting personnel on defense, but have gotten locked in to only seeing one way to use them. I think that means Lake and Porter likely gotta go as well.

But, then I'm not really a fan of firing coaches...

Butler has 7 games to prove he shouldn't be fired imo. To me the evidence suggests he's in over his skis. Hope he proves me wrong.

[AtlantaDan]

Butler has 7 games to prove he shouldn't be fired imo. To me the evidence suggests he's in over his skis. Hope he proves me wrong.

If he stays the excuses/justifications will be he lost his best defensive player for 9 games while having to work 2 rookies into the secondary.

Tomlin will not do it. But if AJR II fired an offensive coordinator who was a surrogate father to the franchise QB and a legendary defensive coordinator he will not hesitate to fire a defensive coordinator who they got boxed into hiring because they had promised Butler the job previously when they apparently believed it was the defensive scheme as much as the talent that made the defense great

AJR II knows what it was like between Bradshaw and Ben - he is going to do whatever he can to max out having Ben while he still can

Of course after the third termination of a coordinator AJR II presumably will focus higher up after that

[pczach]

To be fair to Butler....he hasn't had his best edge pass rusher for a single snap this year......Cam Heyward has missed some time, and has been playing hurt most of the year......I think they forced rookie Hargrave into the starting lineup a little early. McCullers is not a versatile player. He can only play inside.

This has forced him to play Tuitt nearly every play, as he moves him inside and outside within the scheme. Tuitt is wearing down.

He also hasn't had a projected starting cornerback for one snap this year in Golson. Injuries have forced them to play young players, and trade for a new corner. I think that they have some athletic talent at CB, and that they will be OK going forward. But there are still growing pains. I think there are a few quality pieces that are very young. Things are looking up at CB for the future.

Shazier is the difference maker on this defense, but he has still struggled to stay on the field and be able to play at 100%.

Jarvis Jones is not a starting edge player...period. He is a backup player. James Harrison is old, but is still good for limited duty. He is a liability in coverage. The loss of Dupree to injury and the underachieving of Jarvis Jones are devastating to this defense. There is zero edge pass rush. The defensive linemen are trying to create pass rush by getting up field, but are often being moved out in the run game because they are not holding the point of attack. If the outside linebackers were creating pressure, quarterbacks would be stepping up in the pocket and the interior linemen would only need to hold their responsibility to control the gaps and push to collapse the pocket on pass plays. They are trying to do too much right now because of the lack of edge pressure.

On top of that, the lack of pass rush and the secondary issues have made it a very difficult thing to get a handle on. If you blitz, you expose inexperienced players with no safety help. If you play coverage, they cannot generate pass rush, and the secondary has to cover far too long.

None of that is Butler's fault. I'm not saying that he has done a fabulous job. I'm saying that all these factors have made it hard for anyone to devise a scheme that will work with the issues they have had and the lack of talent at very important positions, and the injuries to their best players.

The defense needs to get healthy and find another playmaker in the draft or free agency while the young players continue to improve and develop.

Next year this defense has a chance to take a giant leap forward.

[86WARD]

Excuses upon excuses upon excuses...when's there going to be some accountability??? So if they don't have their best pass rusher, then next man up...right? If next man and man after that and man after that are no good, whose fault is that? Someone along the line has to be responsible...

[pczach]

Excuses upon excuses upon excuses...when's there going to be some accountability??? So if they don't have their best pass rusher, then next man up...right? If next man and man after that and man after that are no good, whose fault is that? Someone along the line has to be responsible...


What I posted above doesn't absolve Butler from moving the pieces around and making this a more effective defense. I'm giving real cause/effect reasons for what's happening on the field.

If the Steelers think it's time to make a move from Butler, I'm OK with that. I trust that the organization has a better handle on it than we do right now.

This was a rebuilding team that looked like it had put just enough talent around a franchise quarterback to make a strong run. The problem is that there is not enough experienced depth on this roster to overcome injuries to key players from a defensive standpoint to just plug players in. Butler needs to come up with better strategies, and be able to change things up enough to make it work. Ultimately, it's on him, but he's running out of the raw materials to run a competent defense without extreme tinkering. If he's been worried about that up to this point, it's time to throw everything imaginable at the opponent on the field. Whatever he has left in the bag....it's time to play it.

[zulater]

Something that I think relates directly to coaching. Ryan Shazier is obviously a very talented player. And at times he can make game changing plays that help the Steelers. But unfortunately I think he more often hurts than helps lately because of his undisciplined play. More than a few of the big plays allowed that have plagued the Steelers this season have come as a direct or indirect result of Shazier being out of position. He's trying to be Troy Polamalu ( or is he being asked to) and as a result of a combination of him not having Troy's natural instinct and inside linebacker not being strong safety it's proving to have often disastrous effects. Ryan needs to be reigned in imo. Let the play come to him, quite trying to be a hero on every play!

[SteelerFanInStl]

You think I'm rooting for the team to lose?

There's a difference between being a pessimist and a realist. The reality is that we are a below-.500 team and we have earned that for good reason.

There is a difference between being a fan and a cheerleader.

This pretty much sums up my feelings.

[86WARD]

What I posted above doesn't absolve Butler from moving the pieces around and making this a more effective defense. I'm giving real cause/effect reasons for what's happening on the field.

If the Steelers think it's time to make a move from Butler, I'm OK with that. I trust that the organization has a better handle on it than we do right now.

This was a rebuilding team that looked like it had put just enough talent around a franchise quarterback to make a strong run. The problem is that there is not enough experienced depth on this roster to overcome injuries to key players from a defensive standpoint to just plug players in. Butler needs to come up with better strategies, and be able to change things up enough to make it work. Ultimately, it's on him, but he's running out of the raw materials to run a competent defense without extreme tinkering. If he's been worried about that up to this point, it's time to throw everything imaginable at the opponent on the field. Whatever he has left in the bag....it's time to play it.



I wasn't trying to attack you by any means...hopefully you didn't take it that way. I'm frustrated with people saying this injury or that injury and once they get this guy back or that guy back...injuries will always be a part of the game and they will never have a fully healthy team. They need to overcome that and they don't. Hell they don't even win when healthy...so...

At some point someone has to be held accountable for the lack of quality players on this team...either the GM or the Coaches.

[Hawkman]

Spin doctoring. I can do that too.

First off the Eagles are in fact the "basement dweller" of the NFC east at the moment a half game behind the 5-3-1 Redskins . :lol:

Regardless, take away the Cowboys and Patriots, then subtract the Steeler wins from our other 3 vanquishers and you've got 3 losses to .500 teams. Miami, the Ravens and the Eagles are the definition of middle of the pack mediocrity. In fairness you can throw in the Redskins to this mix (at 5-3-1) so against mediocre- middling teams we're 1-3. You can't really think that's acceptable? :noidea:

Further we got our asses handed to us in two of those games. Throw out a couple late touchdowns against the Ravens we were dominated by a team that was pinned to the mat for a good part of 3 quarters against the Browns last week. Hell look at the Ravens overall season. Besides us their 4 wins have come at the expense of the Browns (x2, struggled in both) 2-7 Jacksonville, and sub .500 Buffalo.

To summarize we're a 4-5 team on merit. That's not saying things can't be turned around. But in order for things to be turned around a whole lot of Steelers players are going to have to start playing better, and maybe even more important the coaching staff needs to get their collective head out of their own asses! :frusty:

The operative word in my post was "shitty" teams not mediocre teams, and I said nothing about how accepting I was. Just making a counter point.

[Born2Steel]

First off. No one on this site is your fucking son, so enough with that shit.

Second just because you voice your displeasure with the team doesn't make you less of a fan. We're still watching every play and hoping for the best. But when the results are bad you can either bury your head in the sand and pretend it's all good, or you can vent your frustration in these forums. Everyone has the right to handle it as they please. Don't like it, ignore what bothers you. :coffee:

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Butler has 7 games to prove he shouldn't be fired imo. To me the evidence suggests he's in over his skis. Hope he proves me wrong.

You got a problem with me using the word 'son'? Then look at the post I was responding to first. Why don't you try using that ignore advice too.

[steelreserve]

You got a problem with me using the word 'son'? Then look at the post I was responding to first. Why don't you try using that ignore advice too.


To clarify, that was supposed to come off as sounding like a redneck was saying it, not as condescending. Everyone ought to chill.

[teegre]

OK, five of those wins by opponents are BECAUSE we lost to them. So an effective 25-15. Now let's ignore the New England game for the moment, because we had our backup QB and pretty much expected to lose that one, so it's safe to say it's not one we are talking about when we complain about losing to bad teams. So an effective 19-13 - a .593 winning percentage. We are hardly losing to world-beaters.

Consider that the Cowboys were one of the remaining games, and the losses we could complain about are against opponents with a record of 12-12 other than against us. The Dolphins, Eagles and Ravens.

Now, how were those losses? Actually, we got our asses handed to us in all three of them. We were never really in the game at all. Who have we beaten? Redskins, Bengals, Chiefs, and Jets. Four teams whose win/loss records cancel each other out almost exactly; they win 51% of the time.

So in summary, we've played three "top-tier" teams, or what passes for them this year, and we're 1-2 against them; then the rest against mediocre teams and we've gone 3-3. I've got news for you, we belong right in the middle of the .500 football teams.

OK, four of those losses by opponents are BECAUSE we beat to them. So an effective 18-13. Now let's ignore the Jets game for the moment, because they suck and pretty much expected to win that one. So an effective 15-7 a .6818 winning percentage. We are hardly beating the losers.

:hatsoff:

As far as 12-12 goes, that is still not "sub .500." It is mediocre, it is average (literally), but it is not sub .500.

Now... as far as whether the Steelers are mediocre or not, that is a different discussion. (My stance is that almost every team is hovering around mediocre, and that a lucky bounce and/or injury is the difference between 4-5 and 6-3.) But, that is for a different topic. The topic at hand is the notion that the Steelers readily lose to "sub .500" teams... which is an embellishment at best. Again, 12-12 is not "sub" .500... it is exactly .500.

[steelreserve]

OK, four of those losses by opponents are BECAUSE we beat to them. So an effective 18-13. Now let's ignore the Jets game for the moment, because they suck and pretty much expected to win that one. So an effective 15-7 a .6818 winning percentage. We are hardly beating the losers.

:hatsoff:

As far as 12-12 goes, that is still not "sub .500." It is mediocre, it is average (literally), but it is not sub .500.

Now... as far as whether the Steelers are mediocre or not, that is a different discussion. (My stance is that almost every team is hovering around mediocre, and that a lucky bounce and/or injury is the difference between 4-5 and 6-3.) But, that is for a different topic. The topic at hand is the notion that the Steelers readily lose to "sub .500" teams... which is an embellishment at best. Again, 12-12 is not "sub" .500... it is exactly .500.


Point taken. It's a lot of mathematical gyration that probably does not mean much except to bend the stats to whichever side one favors.

Overall I think it's the same outcome: There actually isn't much of a pattern to see. We're just all over the place. Three bad losses to middle-of-the-road teams, three pretty one-sided wins over middle-of-the-road teams ... you never know which team is going to show up.

The victories are played so well it gives you reason to believe the team is super-talented and can beat everyone, and gives ammunition to the people who think the critics are just "haters." The losses are played so poorly that you cannot possibly see anything but a disjointed mess with a lot of blame to go around.

Normally with something like this, you'd say "The truth is probably somewhere in the middle," but in this case it's not. We ARE that good, and we also ARE that bad. The only common factor is that almost every game has been decisive.

So I guess both sides have a valid point. I will, however, argue this: No matter how insanely talented you are, playing as on-and-off as this is no way to win a championship. If you make the playoffs, it's four rounds of Russian Roulette with three bullets in the chamber. Either something happens to make the light bulb go on, or this is going to be the rest of the season for us. And there have been a lot of seasons like that.

[zulater]

You got a problem with me using the word 'son'? Then look at the post I was responding to first. Why don't you try using that ignore advice too.


Sorry. :doh: Didn't see you weren't the one to fire the opening salvo. I read it as a blanket label you were attaching to anyone who wasn't waving the pom poms. Again sorry, I didn't see the context before.:peace:

[pczach]

I wasn't trying to attack you by any means...hopefully you didn't take it that way. I'm frustrated with people saying this injury or that injury and once they get this guy back or that guy back...injuries will always be a part of the game and they will never have a fully healthy team. They need to overcome that and they don't. Hell they don't even win when healthy...so...

At some point someone has to be held accountable for the lack of quality players on this team...either the GM or the Coaches.


It's cool. I didn't take it that way at all. :drink:

You're right that someone needs to be held accountable if this continues. My guess is that there is going to be a serious discussion between the organization and the coaching staff about the state of the union at the end of the year. If the organization doesn't think the proper actions have been taken, or they don't think that the coaching staff is on the path to correcting the problems, they will probably force Tomlin to make a move with his staff or they will be on a very short leash into next year.

If no changes occur at the end of this year, Colbert, Tomlin, and the coordinators better have the team rolling at the beginning of next season or I think something drastic will be done. Next year should really be a strong year for this team. All the young, inexperienced players will be experienced. There will be no more excuses. They should be good enough and deep enough to absorb some injuries and not be derailed.

My hope is that the team finds a way to go on a run this year, and gets into the playoffs. I really want to see how the young players respond in the playoff atmosphere, and it's always good to have them get a taste of that so that they want more, and the expectations that go with that. At this point of the year, the rookies are no longer rookies. They have had enough playing time to really start stepping up. They should not be making the same mistakes over and over again. It is time to take the training wheels off and take more chances. Everyone left needs to step up their game if they hope to string some wins together.

[86WARD]

I agree. This organization isn't the kind to make moves of this nature in the middle of the season...which is a good thing IMO, but something needs to b addressed and if this same group is together next season, they'd better have their collective shit together. I really want to see Smith hone...he's really just terrible...

[Born2Steel]

Sorry. :doh: Didn't see you weren't the one to fire the opening salvo. I read it as a blanket label you were attaching to anyone who wasn't waving the pom poms. Again sorry, I didn't see the context before.:peace:

Forgiven and forgotten. Understand, I too am very frustrated with the way this season has gone. But when I look at recent offseasons and how fans begged for a changing of the guard, it was forewarned there would be some falling off. Now we have a roster of a few star players and a bunch of role players. most of which have never played together. With injuries, rookie mistakes, and just plain inexperience overall, I really don't understand the whole fire the coaches/every player is a bum atmosphere on here right now. Inconsistency shouls be expected. We sit at a 4-5 record with the easiest backend schedule we have seen in a decade, and the shittiest this division has been in at least that long, and I see reasons to be very positive about this season. Losing Cam is a huge blow, it is. But why jump to the conclusion that nobody can/will step up? I don't see an easy road ahead, nor am I honestly predicting a superbowl. But I sure as hell am not ready to just cash in and go home either. And that is exactly what I'm railing against on here. All the doomsayers and people that have given up. I'll wave my terrible towel at 0-16 just as hard as at 19-0. If that makes me a 'cheerleader', then rah! fucking rah! :drink: