Game ball and Goats.

[steelerdude15]

Without out a doubt, Le'Veon gets my game ball. Week in and week out, he shows how valuable of a player he is. I've never seen a running back with such patience, waiting for holes to open up. Also, he's a great receiver. I don't think I need to say anymore about him.

My Goats are quite a few. First one, Landry. Too many passes that were under thrown (two in the endzone which one led to an interception) or passes that were throw too wide. Poor clock management on his part. He did have a few nice passes including the 51 yard throw to Antonio and the throw to Hey-Bey for our first touchdown.

My second goat goes to the offensive line for their lack of discipline. There were several penalties they caused. It was very frustrating to see one too many holdings and false starts.

My third goat goes to the lack of a pass rush from the defense. There were times where they did get some pressure on Brady, but he mostly went untouched tonight.

My forth and final goat goes to Kris. I know he is a very reliable kicker, but missing 2 field goals didn't help.

[fansince'76]

Get well soon, Ben...

[ALLD]

The QB and the stupid kicker are both goats.

Bell and #83 are the only ones who showed up to play the whole game.

[zulater]

Goat was Tomlin. Worst challenge I've ever seen in the first half. Say it didn't matter? If we had that time out at the end of the half we would have had a lot better play selection. The chances of scoring a TD there go up significantly with one more TO. Plus to try a 54 yard fg on 4th and 2 down by 11! :frusty: Chicken shit call! Was the wrong call even if we get the fg there. If we don't get the first I'm fine. Just have some balls and try to keep that drive alive! That was the game there the moment he sent out the fg unit, no matter the result.

[fansince'76]

Plus to try a 54 yard fg on 4th and 2 down by 11! :frusty: Chicken shit call! Was the wrong call even if we get the fg there. If we don't get the first I'm fine. Just have some balls and try to keep that drive alive! That was the game there the moment he sent out the fg unit, no matter the result.

Was definitely reminiscent of Cowher sending out the FG unit in the 2004 AFCCG when we were down by 3 TDs...

[Mojouw]

Even the coaching staff has no confidence in landry jones.

2 years in row a loss to the Pats was helped along by the idiot kicker getting the yips

[zulater]

I didn't see Landry as a goat at all. Getting a td taken off the board that would have tied the game at 14 was a tough break. Yeah he cost us a fg attempt with a terrible end zone throw early, and you could see several times where he was on a different page than the receivers, but overall, after the first quarter he kept the sticks moving and Brady off the field. Yes we needed more points than what we got. But Boswell missing a fg he never misses and Tomlin moronically sending out the fg unit to attempt a fg on 4th and 2 with the game still in the balance wasn't on Landry. Overall I'd give him a C+ at worst. He gave us a chance. Just not enough other things fell into place.

[Born2Steel]

We were down by 11 with 10 mins to go. 3 pts puts us one score down. Our D had been playing well. I don't object to the play call, just missing it. Boz let us down, twice. The hold negating the TD and then missing on the FG was a huge momentum swing. We are a better team than these Pats this year. We win that game 4 out of 5 times.

[zulater]

Was definitely reminiscent of Cowher sending out the FG unit in the 2004 AFCCG when we were down by 3 TDs...

As Rocky Balboa would say. "Absolutely." :lol:

[BlackAndGold]

Not sure how many can blame Jones. He played well, for a back up. Threw the ball 47 times. Should've have had a 2nd TD before the half, but Hubbard's hold brought it back.

This could have been ugly, and it really wasn't. Single coverage on Gronk was the reason for the letdown at the end.

[zulater]

We were down by 11 with 10 mins to go. 3 pts puts us one score down. Our D had been playing well. I don't object to the play call, just missing it. Boz let us down, twice. The hold negating the TD and then missing on the FG was a huge momentum swing. We are a better team than these Pats this year. We win that game 4 out of 5 times.

Attempting a kick longer than the kicker has ever made in his life into the open end zone didn't make sense.

[pczach]

I agree that Tomlin not going for it on fourth down was stupid, plus he should have played third down differently knowing he had two downs to get 2 yards.

They struggled to get plays off on time because all the plays were coming from Haley, and Jones isn't quite as quick as Ben when the bullets are flying.

They made too many mistakes. Jones throwing that interception was huge. The missed field goal was huge. The touchdown that was called back was big. The Patriots not being called for an obvious pass interference call on a long pass that would have gotten them points was big. They had their opportunities to still come out on top in this game.

Overall, I think it's easy to overreact to the loss right after the game. Jones was playing pretty well, but once AB got hurt, they had nobody playing WR that was a real threat. Think about it. Bryant gone for the year, Wheaton out injured, AB playing on one leg and missing some time, Coates shouldn't have even been on the field after reinjuring his hand early in the game. Any quarterback would be struggling to throw the ball if the fifth, sixth, and seventh best WR's on the team were on the field. That's part of the reason he didn't do as well in the second half.

Bell is awesome. He makes yards when it looks like just getting to the line of scrimmage seems impossible. This is why handing Bell the ball on the third and 2 that eventually fourth and 2 was a big mistake to me. Spread the field and hand the ball to Bell.

The offensive line did commit too many penalties, but they also played well for most of the game. Jones had plenty of time all game to look around the field.

The secondary actually played pretty well today except for the blown coverage on Gronk's long TD catch.

They played with a lot of effort today. It just wasn't enough against a really good team and playing with a depleted roster.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Not sure how many can blame Jones. He played well, for a back up. Threw the ball 47 times. Should've have had a 2nd TD before the half, but Hubbard's hold brought it back.

This could have been ugly, and it really wasn't. Single coverage on Gronk was the reason for the letdown at the end.

I'd like to hear from the officials why they threw a flag on Hubbard (yes, it was a hold) but not on Solder when he did the EXACT same thing to Harrison on one of NE's TDs. He tackled James to the ground as James was going around him, just like Hubbard did.

[zulater]

I'd like to hear from the officials why they threw a flag on Hubbard (yes, it was a hold) but not on Solder when he did the EXACT same thing to Harrison on one of NE's TDs. He tackled James to the ground as James was going around him, just like Hubbard did.

Yep I saw that, that was on Gronk's TD that more or less sealed the game. Had that call been made the Patriots are looking at 3rd and 17 and quite possibly end up settling for the fg. That would have left it a 7 point game.

[pczach]

I'd like to hear from the officials why they threw a flag on Hubbard (yes, it was a hold) but not on Solder when he did the EXACT same thing to Harrison on one of NE's TDs. He tackled James to the ground as James was going around him, just like Hubbard did.

I saw it too. It's hard to understand sometimes. The pass interference that wasn't called on the deep ball was just insane. In the replay from the end zone, you can see the official backpedalling and looking right at the WR and the defender as he grabbed Hamilton's arm so he could only reach for the ball with one hand on a perfectly thrown ball. How is that not called? Absolutely mind numbing.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I saw it too. It's hard to understand sometimes. The pass interference that wasn't called on the deep ball was just insane. In the replay from the end zone, you can see the official backpedalling and looking right at the WR and the defender as he grabbed Hamilton's arm so he could only reach for the ball with one hand on a perfectly thrown ball. How is that not called? Absolutely mind numbing.

Yea, I just don't know what to think of the officiating any more. It's just so bad league wide that the NFL should be embarrassed. I saw some real head scratchers as I was watching some of the early games.

[st33lersguy]

Goats: the entire coaching staff, the soft as cotton balls defense save for Jarvis Jones, the O-line for numerous penalties, and Landry Jones for the momentum killing INT as well as the officials who were once again horrendous

[zulater]

My next goat is the injury report. Simply put we were outmanned. The Patriots had no listed injuries. Meanwhile virtually every unit of the Steelers was in some way compromised by injuries. Sometimes it's not an excuse, it's a reason.

[Butch]

Goat was Tomlin. Worst challenge I've ever seen in the first half. Say it didn't matter? If we had that time out at the end of the half we would have had a lot better play selection. The chances of scoring a TD there go up significantly with one more TO. Plus to try a 54 yard fg on 4th and 2 down by 11! :frusty: Chicken shit call! Was the wrong call even if we get the fg there. If we don't get the first I'm fine. Just have some balls and try to keep that drive alive! That was the game there the moment he sent out the fg unit, no matter the result.

This is EXACTLY what I am thinking, every word of it.

[steelreserve]

I don't know if Jones can be called a "goat," but he's just not good enough. And it was a big reason why we lost. The role of the backup QB isn't to do "pretty well for a backup" and still lose the game. So actually, I guess he is a goat.

The vanilla defense gets another goat. It really was just a matter of time before they had their way with us, and when you have no offense, that's not good enough. We're now 0-9 playing the sit-back against Brady. Hey, maybe if we do it again it'll work next time! The motto of our defensive coaches.

[teegre]

My next goat is the injury report. Simply put we were outmanned. The Patriots had no listed injuries. Meanwhile virtually every unit of the Steelers was in some way compromised by injuries. Sometimes it's not an excuse, it's a reason.

Yep.
The best example:

1. AB hobbled/out
2. Bryant suspended
3. Coates injured/out
4. Wheaton out

5. DHB is your top receiver.
6. Hamilton is your second receiver.

[RunNGun]

Wasn't a great game for us, but considering the circumstances, we did just how I expected. I liked seeing a couple guys step up tonight. One being Hamilton and the other being the infamous Jarvis Jones. I thought he played with a lot of energy tonight and did some good things. Really ready to have Cam back, as well as Dupree. We desperately need him to have a major impact on this defense if we want to make a deep run in the playoffs.

[zulater]

If I were to give a game ball I'd give one on defense to Jarvis Jones. He played maybe the best game of his career. Was around the ball all day. On offense I would go with Ramon Foster. Really made his presence felt clearing the path for 26, and his pass blocking was flawless.

[awe1028]

Without out a doubt, Le'Veon gets my game ball. Week in and week out, he shows how valuable of a player he is. I've never seen a running back with such patience, waiting for holes to open up. Also, he's a great receiver. I don't think I need to say anymore about him.

My Goats are quite a few. First one, Landry. Too many passes that were under thrown (two in the endzone which one led to an interception) or passes that were throw too wide. Poor clock management on his part. He did have a few nice passes including the 51 yard throw to Antonio and the throw to Hey-Bey for our first touchdown.

My second goat goes to the offensive line for their lack of discipline. There were several penalties they caused. It was very frustrating to see one too many holdings and false starts.

My third goat goes to the lack of a pass rush from the defense. There were times where they did get some pressure on Brady, but he mostly went untouched tonight.

My forth and final goat goes to Kris. I know he is a very reliable kicker, but missing 2 field goals didn't help.

This. However lack of a pass rush should have been the first goat. Landry did not play well but we already know he is not very good therefore he played about as well as I expected so he is not a major goat for me

As long as we don't fix the pass rush this is going to continue to happen to us especially against teams with a good QB and even not so good QBs

[86WARD]

I'd give a game ball on Offense to Jones. He wasn't terrible. Sure he made a couple bad decisions he also made some really, really nice throws. I'd also give a ball to Jones on defense. He was lights out...easily best game of his career.

Goat goes to Golden. He was horrendous. Also the O-Line penalties.

[Steeldude]

Game ball: Bell, Hamilton

Goat: Defense, Dumblin

[DesertSteel]

No way Jones is a goat. Ben has played worse many times. If he plays as well for next couple games we might win them both.

[Shoes]

Not as good as I expected, but it surely wasn't as bad as most predicted. I think Jones did ok for a back up, he had some bad balls but some good also. He the handles the ball very well on play action pass, too bad Hubbard got the holding call on the DHB TD. I said Boz would have to have a good game and he didn't. That called back TD and the missed FG's would have been the game. The O-line did a great job except for the penalties, Jones should have used his legs on some of the plays when the receivers were covered. I'm still not sold on Sammy Coates, he plays stiff, like a plank and his hands scare me. Coates would have never made the catches Cobi Hamilton made today, imo. I think the D did okay, they pressured Brady more then most teams since he returned, its too bad no one was able to clean his clock on his three running 1st down plays. If Jones plays against the Ravens, we get a win.

[Mojouw]

I don't know if Jones can be called a "goat," but he's just not good enough. And it was a big reason why we lost. The role of the backup QB isn't to do "pretty well for a backup" and still lose the game. So actually, I guess he is a goat.

The vanilla defense gets another goat. It really was just a matter of time before they had their way with us, and when you have no offense, that's not good enough. We're now 0-9 playing the sit-back against Brady. Hey, maybe if we do it again it'll work next time! The motto of our defensive coaches.

But that isn't what they did at all. They schemed to take away the TEs and "made" the Pats take the underneath throw to Edelman/Amendola. Hogan didn't do a blessed thing. Gronk had two big plays. That is better than a lot of teams do. Bennett didn't do anything.

They didn't lose because of soft pass coverage. They lost because the offense couldn't convert 6 or 8 trips (I lost count) into Pats territory into TDs. They lost because for the second week in a row, the run defense had breakdowns at the point of attack. When Heyward goes out, it is just like it was with Aaron Smith - the run defense is suddenly very vulnerable.

If Bellicheck had schemed that hard to take away big plays to the Steelers all-world TEs that's all anyone would be talking about. The Steelers do it, except for 2-3 plays, and all anyone can say is that the defense was vanilla and soft.

[Dwinsgames]

I doubt anyone here expected a win , so with that in mind look at the bright side we didn't get completely embarrassed like I suspected would happen .

question is can we beat moonball joe in 2 weeks ?

back to back losses key injuries on both sides of the ball , I can not think of a better time for the bye week to land on us .

lets get healthy and rebound and ready to make a run

[steelreserve]

But that isn't what they did at all. They schemed to take away the TEs and "made" the Pats take the underneath throw to Edelman/Amendola. Hogan didn't do a blessed thing. Gronk had two big plays. That is better than a lot of teams do. Bennett didn't do anything.

They didn't lose because of soft pass coverage. They lost because the offense couldn't convert 6 or 8 trips (I lost count) into Pats territory into TDs. They lost because for the second week in a row, the run defense had breakdowns at the point of attack. When Heyward goes out, it is just like it was with Aaron Smith - the run defense is suddenly very vulnerable.

If Bellicheck had schemed that hard to take away big plays to the Steelers all-world TEs that's all anyone would be talking about. The Steelers do it, except for 2-3 plays, and all anyone can say is that the defense was vanilla and soft.

Well, I don't think our defensive scheme helped us, let me put it that way. The results were a little better than we usually have against Brady, but by no means spectacular.

The TEs "only" had two big plays, but guess what, they had two big plays. Both resulted in touchdowns. It's not as if when the defense works works works works works fails, that means it worked. We gave up nearly 30 points and most of the time that means you lose. Especially with your backup QB, who you have to account for in your own planning - yes, he IS going to stall a few drives and miss some opportunities. We played the safe strategy and it was not a winning strategy, they were still able to abuse is at key points.

I will say that as a whole, I think our defense is a little better than it has been for the past few years, and we had some good individual efforts. And the Patriots look like they are noticeably worse than a couple years ago. So in a rematch with everyone healthy, we probably do win more often than not. Maybe we can get away with some of that shit. We couldn't in this game.

[Mojouw]

Didn't say that it was the most effective or best performance. It did accomplish one of its key tasks. Getting beaten at the point of attack in the run game most likely wasn't.

What I don't understand is what people wanted in place of what happened today? Foam at the mouth and send 5-6 every down with blood in their eyes? That means single coverage on those scary TEs. The same TE that made those two back breaking big plays in single coverage against Golden during a blitz

I think it sucks they lost at home. I think it sucks they left the winning points on the table with a depleted roster. But I don't think the overall strategy was necessarily flawed.


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[Steeldude]

I will never understand why the refs let players hold Harrison on nearly every play.

[Steel Peon]

Le'Veon was our best, and Hamilton was admirable. Landry gave it a good try and didn't do half bad, but with the EONS of time he had to stand in the pocket surveying the field (kudos OL) he should've been able to find more decent targets than he did.

Every kick from Boswell hooked to the right, and there's no good reason why......probably his first bad game.

The goat goes to our defense, who can't stop the run, and can't stop the pass, providing large holes down the middle, that continue to be exploited as much this season as the last, with no clear scapegoat in sight.

[pczach]

Except for Tomlin's decision to not go for it on fourth and 2, I think the coaches did a very good job game planning and calling the game.

Tomlin obviously had them fired up and well prepared to play this game. They came out with fire and his game plan was very good. They just didn't have enough healthy bodies, and they had some calls and breaks go against them. I thought the effort was very good.

Butler's approach worked and kept the Steelers in the game. All the bashing of the defense is uncalled for with all the injuries. They didn't get pressure because they didn't really try. They rushed four most of the game and covered. They didn't allow many explosive plays except for the long pass to Gronk on what I think was a miscommunication on the back end.

Haley had a good game plan, and IMO called a good game for the most part. The only glaring mistake was the failed double reverse when they were moving the ball early. Other than that, he put Landry Jones and the offense in a position to make plays. With your top 4 WR out or severely hampered with injuries, I think they did ok.

My hope is that the team can heal up and make it into the playoffs with the roster intact and healthy. I want that rematch very badly. I think the Patriots do not.

[steel striker]

I don't get trying the 54 fg plus Boswell was shaky with all of his other kicks as well and, not many kickers have ever made very many 50+ at the burgh. To me it was a game of missed chances red zone pick missed 42 yard fg and, not getting anything off the punt fumble. I'm not saying they would have won but, it would have been fun to watch. Plus that missed PI call the cheats db hold a arm bar on Hamilton that would have been another red zone trip.

[teegre]

My thoughts...

DEFENSE:
The defense got worked over in the first quarter, but then shut the Taperiots down in the second quarter. On the opening drive of the second half, the Steelers defense was on fire!!!... but, then the next two drives allowed Gronk to score/set up two easy scores. You can NOT forget about Gronk on ANY play. They left him open twice, and that resulted in two touchdowns. It was as if the defense got cocky (after that opening three-&-out), and it blew up in their face.

OFFENSE:
Meanwhile, the offense had pleeenty of opportunities to score... not the least of which were the two turnovers, which gave them the ball at the Tapes' 45.

The INT was a must-throw. AB was in single coverage; I throw it to him every time. Alas, the throw was awful. Right decision, poor execution. Even a bad throw nets a FG there. Alas.. (-3 points)

The TD being called back really hurt. The missed FG was even worse. It went from 7 points, to 3 points, to 0 points. It took the offense a while to get back the momentum. QUESTION: Was it me, or did the defender slip? I'm really asking. (-7 points)

Those two plays alone were the difference in the game... and there were at least four other drives that should have netted a minimum of a FG (-12 points).

FG vs. GOING FOR IT:
That is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. The formula is that you go for the FG first, and then try the on-side kick to go for the TD. BUT, it was a very long FG. Of course, if Tomlin had gone for it and failed, then people would be screaming that eh should have kicked the FG.

I have a problemw ith not giving the ball to Bell on 3rd-&-2. Last week, it was the same thing (3rd-&-1), and they put the ball in Landry Jones's hands... instead of Bell's. I would have given it to Bell on third and fourth down. He's bound to get 2 yards over those two plays (he was averaging nearly 5 ypc). THAT SAID, if Bell catches the ball on third down, we aren't even having this discussion.

SUMMATION:
If the defense doesn't mind-fart when covering Gronk, they Tapes only score 20 (I will concede that Gronk was going to get one TD, no matter what). That si plenty good enough. Add in Heyward, Shazier, and Dupree, and I like the chances that this team has in a rematch.

The offense was without AB, Coates, Rogers... D-Will... Gilbert... and obviously, BB. Those many, many opportunities that were given to Jones would have been FGs (or TDs). I feel confident in scoring 25-30 in a rematch.

[steelreserve]

I don't think they "forgot" about Gronkowski, so much as Golden just couldn't cover him. On both plays Golden lined up directly opposite from him and looked like he was supposed to be covering him man-to-man. And in both cases, he let him run right past and tried to cover him from behind. Well, that didn't work.

That was one of the few times I've ever seen Golden get caught out of position or blow his coverage, too.Usually he's about the most consistent one in the defensive backfield.

[86WARD]

Golden's "approach" to covering him failed miserably...

[Born2Steel]

Well, who exactly has shut Gronk down? Maybe it was their plan to use the TEs only when we blitzed? But I read the Pats only targeted their TEs 6 times all game. So either our guys did a good job taking them out of the plays, or Brady is slipping. Because 2 of those 6 targets went for TDs.

[86WARD]

It doesn't help that the Steelers pass D is probably the worst since the late 80s. This defense has been ranked as the second worst behind the 1988 defense.

[teegre]

I don't think they "forgot" about Gronkowski, so much as Golden just couldn't cover him. On both plays Golden lined up directly opposite from him and looked like he was supposed to be covering him man-to-man. And in both cases, he let him run right past and tried to cover him from behind. Well, that didn't work.

That was one of the few times I've ever seen Golden get caught out of position or blow his coverage, too.Usually he's about the most consistent one in the defensive backfield.

When I say "forgot", I mean left in single coverage. There isn't a player alive that can single-cover Gronk. Not one. (The bracketing worked great... aside from those two plays.)

- - - Updated - - -


Because 2 of those 6 targets went for TDs.

Yep. The bracketing worked like a charm... and on those two long receptions/TDs, Gronk was not bracketed. And, as I mentioned: you can't "forget" about Gronk for even one play (or, he'll burn you).

[steelreserve]

When I say "forgot", I mean left in single coverage. There isn't a player alive that can single-cover Gronk. Not one. (The bracketing worked great... aside from those two plays.)


Eh. I don't think that's true at all. Plenty of people could cover him one-on-one, but they would rarely be matched up against him. A decent CB or a good pass-covering safety would easily be able to, but those guys have other assignments that are higher priority. So Gronkowski eats the lunch of linebackers, nickel corners and safeties who aren't really coverage-first guys.

No, really, as a #1 or #2 receiver, I don't think he'd be anything special, just be a big target with good hands. But he's a matchup nightmare because putting your best defender on the tight end would be insane. So he draws the fourth- or fifth-best cover guy, which is about what Golden is.

I refuse to call him "Gronk" because fuck the Patriots and fuck calling one of their players with a familiar nickname.

[teegre]

Eh. I don't think that's true at all. Plenty of people could cover him one-on-one, but they would rarely be matched up against him. A decent CB or a good pass-covering safety would easily be able to, but those guys have other assignments that are higher priority. So Gronkowski eats the lunch of linebackers, nickel corners and safeties who aren't really coverage-first guys.

No, really, as a #1 or #2 receiver, I don't think he'd be anything special, just be a big target with good hands. But he's a matchup nightmare because putting your best defender on the tight end would be insane. So he draws the fourth- or fifth-best cover guy, which is about what Golden is.

I refuse to call him "Gronk" because fuck the Patriots and fuck calling one of their players with a familiar nickname.

I see your point, but I disagree. Few coaches are putting their second-best cover guy on Hogan. Gronk (:wink02:) definitely gets most teams #2 cover guy.

Now, could Richard Sherman stop Gronk??? You say "yes" and I say "no".


Regardless, Golden was NOT stopping him with single coverage.

[steelreserve]

I see your point, but I disagree. Few coaches are putting their second-best cover guy on Hogan. Gronk (:wink02:) definitely gets most teams #2 cover guy.

Now, could Richard Sherman stop Gronk??? You say "yes" and I say "no".


Sherman would just mug him all day and use his holding exemption. But on the other hand, the Patriots would use their insta-flag ability. Whose shitpower would win out? It's an intriguing matchup.

More to the point - if we'd had, say, Cockrell or Burns on him (not really clear who's our #1 CB and who's #2), would they shut him out completely? No. But a halfway decent CB would not just let the guy run free behind him.



Regardless, Golden was NOT stopping him with single coverage.

You got that right.

Our coverage on that play was just fuckin' stupid, by the way. They had no receivers at all on the right side of their formation, yet we had two DBs - Mitchell, who eventually picked up a receiver coming across deep over the middle, and Cockrell, who sat there 5 yards off the line of scrimmage just farting around.

I don't know whether he was supposed to be watching the RB or the second tight end (neither of whom ever crossed the line of scrimmage) but those were his two options. Your #1/#2 corner is covering the running back or the second tight end. Now THAT is the linebacker's job if there ever was one, or at most Golden's job. So we fucked that one up right and proper. Pretty inexcusable to do when your whole scheme is to bet it all on coverage instead of pressure.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHYM3kKxZ90

[Mojouw]

Didn't the coverage breakdowns on Gronkowski come from running stunts and blitzes in front of it?


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[j-d-s]

We were down by 11 with 10 mins to go. 3 pts puts us one score down. Our D had been playing well. I don't object to the play call, just missing it. Boz let us down, twice. The hold negating the TD and then missing on the FG was a huge momentum swing. We are a better team than these Pats this year. We win that game 4 out of 5 times.

Nah. It was a 54-yarder at Heinz Field. The longest NFL make is 52 yards.

[Steel Peon]

Was it me, or did the defender slip? I'm really asking.

I didn't see holding on that play, and I don't think his arm was hooked either......I saw the defender slip.

[teegre]

I didn't see holding on that play, and I don't think his arm was hooked either......I saw the defender slip.

That's what I thought I saw, too... but, I am admittedly biased.

[teegre]

Sherman would just mug him all day and use his holding exemption. But on the other hand, the Patriots would use their insta-flag ability. Whose shitpower would win out? It's an intriguing matchup.


The proverbial Unstoppable Toilet versus the Immovable Turd.

[teegre]

Didn't the coverage breakdowns on Gronkowski come from running stunts and blitzes in front of it?

That could be. It would explain why Golden was left in single coverage.

The problem is, even on a stunt/blitz, you still have to bracket Gronk. You can't leave him in single coverage on ANY play. It only took two plays (one TD, the other set up a TD) to change the game (at that point, the Taperiots hadn't gotten into the red-zone since the first quarter).

[Mojouw]

That could be. It would explain why Golden was left in single coverage.

The problem is, even on a stunt/blitz, you still have to bracket Gronk. You can't leave him in single coverage on ANY play. It only took two plays (one TD, the other set up a TD) to change the game (at that point, the Taperiots hadn't gotten into the red-zone since the first quarter).

I agree. But the extra guy or guys has to come from somewhere. 2 Dbs on the outside receivers. 2 more bracketing Gronk. 1 in deep center field. There's your nickel package.

2 of 3 LBs to cover the short middle and the flat. 1 to join the rush with the front 3. That's everyone else and the OL is gonna outnumber pass rusher.

Want to send more than 4 (what I define as a blitz) then gotta pull someone out of coverage. With many teams you can get away with it but Pats make you pay if you don't get home in time.

That's where I remain unconvinced by the "blitz more" argument. This is not a team that man covers well enough to send extra guys.


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[Born2Steel]

When I say "forgot", I mean left in single coverage. There isn't a player alive that can single-cover Gronk. Not one. (The bracketing worked great... aside from those two plays.)

- - - Updated - - -



Yep. The bracketing worked like a charm... and on those two long receptions/TDs, Gronk was not bracketed. And, as I mentioned: you can't "forget" about Gronk for even one play (or, he'll burn you).

The Saints used Jimmy Graham(TE) lined up where ever he got the best matchup. He moved around the offense. Was there any 1 DB that could cover him? Maybe, but every team didn't have 1. So, like Gronk, double team is the only way to stop it. The Steelers did well with that, but when he was left one on one, Brady saw it and we got burned.

[steelreserve]

I agree. But the extra guy or guys has to come from somewhere. 2 Dbs on the outside receivers. 2 more bracketing Gronk. 1 in deep center field. There's your nickel package.

2 of 3 LBs to cover the short middle and the flat. 1 to join the rush with the front 3. That's everyone else and the OL is gonna outnumber pass rusher.

Want to send more than 4 (what I define as a blitz) then gotta pull someone out of coverage. With many teams you can get away with it but Pats make you pay if you don't get home in time.

That's where I remain unconvinced by the "blitz more" argument. This is not a team that man covers well enough to send extra guys.


What you've described is needing a minimum of seven people in coverage to cover a maximum of five eligible receivers. And on the plays where we got burned, it was more like three players who actually ran routes.

I do not think you actually need two DBs PLUS a guy in center field to deal with Gronkowski. Three DBs for one tight end? Come on. Two guys, yes, but one DB plus help over the top is fine. As long as the help doesn't get baited away like Mitchell did.

So ideally it's more like - 2 CBs on the outside receivers, third CB on Gronkowski, one safety deep, one watching the short stuff to the RB and other TE ... then you can rush anywhere from 1 to 3 linebackers depending on how ballsy you feel. If you can get a good sense of how likely the RB and second TE are to stay back blocking or not, that can help you a lot with deciding how many to send.

Now - as to what we actually did on the play in question ... why wasn't Mitchell helping over the top? Well, he probably would've been, if the CBs hadn't completely blown it. We had Cockrell hanging around the line doing nothing, and we also had Gay wandering around in the middle of the field not covering anyone. So right there, two of your three CBs out of the play for no apparent reason. It doesn't matter whether you're in a nickel if you do that.

Meanwhile, we rushed one LB, with one dropping into coverage against nobody, and one hesitator-then-rusher who was too late to make any difference in the play. So overall: Single coverage in the backfield, plus rushing four guys into seven blockers.

So basically what we managed to do was lose the numbers battle in both coverage AND pass rushing because we had four guys hanging around being ineffective. To my original point - we're not good enough to sit back and play coverage against the Patriots. Maybe it works on 90% of plays, but eventually shit like this happens because we ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH AT COVERAGE. And then they punish you for it. Just like every game.

[teegre]

I agree. But the extra guy or guys has to come from somewhere. 2 Dbs on the outside receivers. 2 more bracketing Gronk. 1 in deep center field. There's your nickel package.

2 of 3 LBs to cover the short middle and the flat. 1 to join the rush with the front 3. That's everyone else and the OL is gonna outnumber pass rusher.

Want to send more than 4 (what I define as a blitz) then gotta pull someone out of coverage. With many teams you can get away with it but Pats make you pay if you don't get home in time.

That's where I remain unconvinced by the "blitz more" argument. This is not a team that man covers well enough to send extra guys.


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Butler would agree with you.

At one point, they showed a graphic, where the Steelers blitz (on average) on 19% of their defensive snaps, but in the Taperiots game, the Steelers blitzed 0%.

It was working... until a miscommunication left Golden in a lurch.

[Mojouw]

What you've described is needing a minimum of seven people in coverage to cover a maximum of five eligible receivers. And on the plays where we got burned, it was more like three players who actually ran routes.

I do not think you actually need two DBs PLUS a guy in center field to deal with Gronkowski. Three DBs for one tight end? Come on. Two guys, yes, but one DB plus help over the top is fine. As long as the help doesn't get baited away like Mitchell did.

So ideally it's more like - 2 CBs on the outside receivers, third CB on Gronkowski, one safety deep, one watching the short stuff to the RB and other TE ... then you can rush anywhere from 1 to 3 linebackers depending on how ballsy you feel. If you can get a good sense of how likely the RB and second TE are to stay back blocking or not, that can help you a lot with deciding how many to send.

Now - as to what we actually did on the play in question ... why wasn't Mitchell helping over the top? Well, he probably would've been, if the CBs hadn't completely blown it. We had Cockrell hanging around the line doing nothing, and we also had Gay wandering around in the middle of the field not covering anyone. So right there, two of your three CBs out of the play for no apparent reason. It doesn't matter whether you're in a nickel if you do that.

Meanwhile, we rushed one LB, with one dropping into coverage against nobody, and one hesitator-then-rusher who was too late to make any difference in the play. So overall: Single coverage in the backfield, plus rushing four guys into seven blockers.

So basically what we managed to do was lose the numbers battle in both coverage AND pass rushing because we had four guys hanging around being ineffective. To my original point - we're not good enough to sit back and play coverage against the Patriots. Maybe it works on 90% of plays, but eventually shit like this happens because we ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH AT COVERAGE. And then they punish you for it. Just like every game.

I think this is a good argument, but I think it is mixing elements of zone and man coverages together to indict the Steelers players on any given play. Often those DBs and linebackers that look they are doing nothing are doing the specific job of covering a zone on the field. Butler seems to like to mix concepts between man and zone and is usually how he gets his double teams accomplished - one defender tracks a guy and the "help/double teamer" changes as the tracking defender and receiver mover through the zones. But I don't really know, as I don't have enough background to really put that all together. I know last year the can opener for this defense was to flood an individual zone and overwhelm the defender and force him to choose which guy to cover. The Pats seemed to be running routes designed to make guys flow from zone to zone and then throw the ball while the rotations were late. But, again, i don't really know.

[ALLD]

It doesn't help that the Steelers pass D is probably the worst since the late 80s. This defense has been ranked as the second worst behind the 1988 defense.

Nobody is going to mistake them for the 1976 defense. 5 shutouts in last 9 games !!!

In 2007, ESPN.com named the 1976 Steelers the greatest defense in NFL history,[1] noting, "the 1976 unit was the best (slightly better than the '75 squad). Here's why: 28. That's how many points the Steel Curtain surrendered in the last nine games of the season. That's a total. As a result, Pittsburgh, which started the season 1–4, made it all the way to the AFC Championship Game....

The '76 Steelers didn't have it easy – their opponents had a .528 winning percentage. But they had these guys: Hall of Famers Mean Joe Greene, Jack Lambert, Jack Ham and Mel Blount. And eight Steelers defensive players made the 1976 Pro Bowl team: cornerback J.T. Thomas, defensive end L.C. Greenwood, Greene, Ham, Lambert, defensive back Glen Edwards, safety Mike Wagner, and Blount."


Week Date Opponent Time (ET) TV Result
1 Sunday September 12 at Oakland Raiders 4:00 pm NBC L 28-31
2 Sunday September 19 Cleveland Browns 1:00 pm NBC W 31–14
3 Sunday September 26 New England Patriots 1:00 pm NBC L 27-30
4 Monday October 4 at Minnesota Vikings 9:00 pm ABC L 6-17
5 Sunday October 10 at Cleveland Browns 1:00 pm NBC L 16–18
6 Sunday October 17 Cincinnati Bengals 1:00 pm NBC W 23–6
7 Sunday October 24 at New York Giants 1:00 pm NBC W 27–0
8 Sunday October 31 San Diego Chargers 1:00 pm NBC W 23–0
9 Sunday November 7 at Kansas City Chiefs 2:00 pm NBC W 45–0
10 Sunday November 14 Miami Dolphins 1:00 pm NBC W 14–3
11 Sunday November 21 Houston Oilers 1:00 pm NBC W 32–16
12 Sunday November 28 at Cincinnati Bengals 1:00 pm NBC W 7–3
13 Sunday December 5 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1:00 pm NBC W 42–0
14 Saturday December 11 at Houston Oilers 4:00 pm NBC W 21–0

[steelreserve]

I think this is a good argument, but I think it is mixing elements of zone and man coverages together to indict the Steelers players on any given play. Often those DBs and linebackers that look they are doing nothing are doing the specific job of covering a zone on the field. Butler seems to like to mix concepts between man and zone and is usually how he gets his double teams accomplished - one defender tracks a guy and the "help/double teamer" changes as the tracking defender and receiver mover through the zones. But I don't really know, as I don't have enough background to really put that all together. I know last year the can opener for this defense was to flood an individual zone and overwhelm the defender and force him to choose which guy to cover. The Pats seemed to be running routes designed to make guys flow from zone to zone and then throw the ball while the rotations were late. But, again, i don't really know.


Well, I agree I probably don't know all the specifics of exactly what they were trying to do on those couple plays, and it was probably more complicated than "just stand there."

But whatever our plan was, either a) We weren't good enough to execute it every time and paid the price, or b) They found a way to exploit it and we paid the price. Why it's almost impossible to sit back and defend against New England for the whole game. I don't think it's any coincidence that the back-breaking plays came when they did, at the end of the game. They had time to see what we were doing and then figure out how to punish it.

So no, all-out blitzing every down probably wouldn't have been the answer either, but doing what we did was just as dangerous because they knew what was coming, and you can't do that.

[Rotorhead]

Against any team there are going to be coverage breakdowns. We had 2 against one of the top offensive weapons in the league. I would call that a win any week. Nobody has been able to stop Gronk. Aside from all that, that isn't what really killed us, it was the running game again. Cam is our best run stopper and him being out really hurts our defense. He is also one of our better rushers, so that hurts also. I honestly believe if he were in the game we probably win. Our offense is not good enough (with all the injuries) to allow these types of breakdowns on our defense, but after the bye (assuming Ben is back) we shouldn't have the injury problem anymore on offense and most of our defense. That lines up a pretty good run into the playoffs (if we can stay healthy). Our coverage is getting better every game. Add Dupree with more pressure and if JJ can keep up the level of play he has shown the last couple of weeks we should be much improved on the def side of the ball soon.

[86WARD]

That wasn't a coverage breakdown on Gronks TD. Golden just didn't know how to approach it and screwed it up. They had the play covered, Golden just couldn't handle it and approached it wrong. I don't call that a breakdown. I call that poor execution...

[Mojouw]

That wasn't a coverage breakdown on Gronks TD. Golden just didn't know how to approach it and screwed it up. They had the play covered, Golden just couldn't handle it and approached it wrong. I don't call that a breakdown. I call that poor execution...

I think that play shows you exactly why they drafted Sean Davis. Golden is what he is - but he really isn't that great. Apparently Davis, like so many of this team's draft picks, looks like an Olympian but has the brainpower of a triceratops.

[steelreserve]

That wasn't a coverage breakdown on Gronks TD. Golden just didn't know how to approach it and screwed it up. They had the play covered, Golden just couldn't handle it and approached it wrong. I don't call that a breakdown. I call that poor execution...

I think it was both. Golden screwed the pooch on that play - and I mean really fucked the dog - but we either completely blew the playcall or blew the coverage. Half our secondary was in the wrong place and not even near any receiver.

Maybe it was Cockrell and Gay being out of position on their own, in which case it was a breakdown. Or maybe it was some kind of designed zone/man hybrid, in which case we completely misread the play. But there is no excuse for having two of your three cornerbacks running around looking for something to do - it means one way or another, someone fucked up. And of course it didn't help that Golden simply could not cover the guy.



I think that play shows you exactly why they drafted Sean Davis. Golden is what he is - but he really isn't that great. Apparently Davis, like so many of this team's draft picks, looks like an Olympian but has the brainpower of a triceratops.

That made me laugh. Sad but true :(