A Tale of Two extremes.

[Edman]

This team can't seem to find any middle ground on themselves.

When they're good, they're very good. If things are going well, they're unbeatable. When the Offense is on, the Defense is on.

When they're bad, they're very bad. If things aren't going right, it snowballs and they can't fight out of it. The whole team breaks down.

Where this Steeler team goes in 2016 all depends on whether which team shows up each week. It's a roll of the dice, and that's not good. Great teams aren't great all the time, they're great when they need to be.

This team is looking for the signature win where they pull it out even when they aren't in top form. Until then, we'll just get more of this guessing game on which team shows up on Sunday.

[WCSteeler]

It starts with coaching, Mike Tomlins' teams have always been susceptible to trap games and playing down to bad teams. The team needs a change of attitude, they are not invincible

[GBMelBlount]

I feel Ben often lacks crispness and intensity against really bad teams when we are heavily favored.

I also think this lack of urgency permeates through the entire team.

On a side note - we do have a lot of injuries also.

[86WARD]

It starts with coaching, Mike Tomlins' teams have always been susceptible to trap games and playing down to bad teams. The team needs a change of attitude, they are not invincible

So how long is this tolerated?

[Edman]

So how long is this tolerated?

Ten Years. That's how long he's been here.

[Mojouw]

I really wish someone would explain to me how coaching leads to multiple bad throws by the QB and a total lack of a pass rush by the outside linebackers?

The players are not very good at key spots and the execution is even worse. In all seriousness, what specifically should the coaches be doing that they are not currently doing? I hear this after every loss. But it is never a specific critique.

Steelers Loss = Dumb Coaches. Steelers Win = great players. They are the same coaches and players in both cases...

[fansince'76]

I really wish someone would explain to me how coaching leads to multiple bad throws by the QB and a total lack of a pass rush by the outside linebackers?

The players are not very good at key spots and the execution is even worse. In all seriousness, what specifically should the coaches be doing that they are not currently doing? I hear this after every loss. But it is never a specific critique.

Steelers Loss = Dumb Coaches. Steelers Win = great players. They are the same coaches and players in both cases...

And it's always the same ones who disappear while the team is winning that pop back up out of the woodwork after losses to do so...

[WCSteeler]

So how long is this tolerated?

The Steelers don't fire coaches, with that said probably a few more seasons. Tomlins saving grace has been Roethlisberger, without a top 3 QB Tomlin is a sub .500 coach and this loss is anot especially bad loss due to the facts that he has not only totally out coached but the Dolphins were reeling and this should have been a win in dominating fashion. The culture has changed under Tomlin, for example do you think for one second Cowher would have allowed Mike Mitchell to commit two very stupid personal foul penalties in one half and not be reprimanded? We are all in for a few more years of unprepared,undisciplined football unless the Rooneys have some unpleasant words with Tomlin that make him change

[Mojouw]

And it's always the same ones who disappear while the team is winning that pop back up out of the woodwork after losses to do so...

That very well may be true. I also get that people are emotional - but it just doesn't make a ton of sense.
You're all world Qb threw multiple boneheaded INTS. Your back-up OT was exposed a bit. The MASH unit that they are fielding on defense showed its cracks. Rookie DBs made dumb decisions in coverage.
That's not really on the coaches. That's on the players and a ton of bad luck.

We could talk about how leaving Jesse James isolated on Cameron Wake is a poor coaching decision. But I sense that folks are not talking about individual tactical and strategic decisions like that. But more in a general sense that the Steelers can't lose unless the coaches go out of their way to screw things up in some general undefined manner.

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The Steelers don't fire coaches, with that said probably a few more seasons. Tomlins saving grace has been Roethlisberger, without a top 3 QB Tomlin is a sub .500 coach and this loss is anot especially bad loss due to the facts that he has not only totally out coached but the Dolphins were reeling and this should have been a win in dominating fashion. The culture has changed under Tomlin, for example do you think for one second Cowher would have allowed Mike Mitchell to commit two very stupid personal foul penalties in one half and not be reprimanded? We are all in for a few more years of unprepared,undisciplined football unless the Rooneys have some unpleasant words with Tomlin that make him change

You mean the coach that had a player get ejected from a playoff game for personal fouls and throwing punches? That Cowher? The coach who tolerated Porter's antics? That Cowher?

Besides, both of Mitchell's penalties today were TERRIBLE calls by the officiating crew and the announcing crew even had a hard time understanding what the call was on one of them.

[fansince'76]

The culture has changed under Tomlin, for example do you think for one second Cowher would have allowed Mike Mitchell to commit two very stupid personal foul penalties in one half and not be reprimanded? We are all in for a few more years of unprepared,undisciplined football unless the Rooneys have some unpleasant words with Tomlin that make him change

:rolleyes:

Let me know when one of our players gets into an idiotic fight with an opposing player during pregame warmups and gets ejected from the game against a division rival under Tomlin. :coffee:

[st33lersguy]

Can't wait to watch this team hand Cleveland it's first win of the season in a month

[The Bark]

To be honest, I lost interest 1/2 way through the second quarter. By the start of the fourth, I turned it off. Before the game even started, I shook my head when learning Shazier was out again. He's beginning to make Jay Cutler look tough. The whole "Next Man Up" philosophy only works so much as this team suddenly looks extremely thin, especially on defense. The realist in me says next week is looking really ugly regardless if they're healthy or not.

On a positive note, I'm happy to see Ben finished with a higher QBR than Landry's 0-1 attempt.

[B&G]

I agree that sometimes players just make bad plays, however, the complete lack of a solid game plan in these types of situations leads to bad plays. There is a long history of us playing like crap against teams we should just roll over, you can't tell me that every time we play a game like this, Ben and company just give up and play like shit like they don't care. I truely believe that we are just being outcoached, not only on gameday, but total preparation in these types of games.

[Mojouw]

:rolleyes:

Let me know when one of our players gets into an idiotic fight with an opposing player during pregame warmups and gets ejected from the game against a division rival under Tomlin. :coffee:

How dare you! Cowher was a master disciplinarian and strategist!

Do people not remember Cowher's teams regularly doing the EXACT SAME THING they hate out of Tomlin's teams? How many seasons did Cowher open up 0 and 2? How many games did Cowher lose to "bad teams" (a term that no one really wants to define btw)? How often did "Martyball" style playcalling frustrate fans? How about those 10+ yard cushions by the DB's? What about those "terrible Lebeau style schemes" etc.

Was Cowher a really good coach? Yup. Borderline hall of fame resume? Most likely. But to make it out that everything on this team traces back to Tomlin is just dumb.

[Steeldude]

They depend entirely on splash plays. They cannot force their will onto the opposing team. Without prayers and splash plays they will struggle in all games.

As for the defense, they have no idea what kind of defense to run. Jones needs to play less and Harrison needs to play more. Jones should only come in for breathers or during times when the defense and offense are clicking.

[Mojouw]

I agree that sometimes players just make bad plays, however, the complete lack of a solid game plan in these types of situations leads to bad plays. There is a long history of us playing like crap against teams we should just roll over, you can't tell me that every time we play a game like this, Ben and company just give up and play like shit like they don't care. I truely believe that we are just being outcoached, not only on gameday, but total preparation in these types of games.

What was the lack of a solid gameplan? Serious. Other than the fact that they lost, what should have been done differently? I am willing to bet that you have no real answer to that question.

What did the Dolphin's do that outcoached the Steelers? Settle for field goals due to drops and bad calls before they wore the Steelers defense out because the Steelers offense's best play was a punt for the entire second half? That gameplan? That amazing coaching job?

[Devilsdancefloor]

it all starts with Ben if he has a funk of a day so does the team. the Defensive leader is on the sidelines this team is flat when cam isnt playing

[lipps83]

Sometimes games are hard to win when you are up against both Dan Marino and Earl Campbell.

Hey, at least we aren't Panthers fans this year with high expectations after a tough Super Bowl loss. Those guys heads are probably exploding every single week.

[Shoes]

On the bright side the ravens & bengals lost

[SteelMayhem72]

This team can't seem to find any middle ground on themselves.

When they're good, they're very good. If things are going well, they're unbeatable. When the Offense is on, the Defense is on.

When they're bad, they're very bad. If things aren't going right, it snowballs and they can't fight out of it. The whole team breaks down.

Where this Steeler team goes in 2016 all depends on whether which team shows up each week. It's a roll of the dice, and that's not good. Great teams aren't great all the time, they're great when they need to be.

This team is looking for the signature win where they pull it out even when they aren't in top form. Until then, we'll just get more of this guessing game on which team shows up on Sunday.

I agree with everything you said but this team has a hard time putting a complete game together in all 3 phases...1 or all three phases has a problem each and every game

[Terrapinstation]

How dare anyone utter a negative comment about Pope Tomlin. We can't expect him to be held accountable for anything, ever. It's just a complete oddity how we routinely lose to the worst teams in the league.

LMK when Belichick has a team get steamrolled by a 1-4 team who's only win was a nailbiter against the Browns

[B&G]

I agree that sometimes players just make bad plays, however, the complete lack of a solid game plan in these types of situations leads to bad plays. There is a long history of us playing like crap against teams we should just roll over, you can't tell me that every time we play a game like this, Ben and company just give up and play like shit like they don't care. I truely believe that we are just being outcoached, not only on gameday, but total preparation in these types of games.

[Terrapinstation]

What was the lack of a solid gameplan? Serious. Other than the fact that they lost, what should have been done differently? I am willing to bet that you have no real answer to that question.

What did the Dolphin's do that outcoached the Steelers? Settle for field goals due to drops and bad calls before they wore the Steelers defense out because the offense's best play was a punt for the entire second half? That gameplan? That amazing coaching job?

What was their gameplan? Certainly wasn't running Bell (10 carries). Certainly wasn't throwing to their hall of fame receiver (4 catches). Absolutely no idea WTF they're even trying to do on defense. No blitzes. Corners playing 20 yards off the WRs. Speaking of corners, wasn't Tomlin's main claim to fame that he's a defensive (specifically DB) coach? How in the name of Christ do we still have William Gay as our #1 corner? We haven't drafted and/or coached up a good corner since Rod Woodson. I know I know, you don't need good corners when you can pressure the QB with great linebackers! Yet, despite drafting tons of them year after year, James 'social security' Harrison is still our best.

[Mojouw]

Again, I will ask - what was the problem with the game plan?

On offense they turned the ball over twice and the QB missed about a half dozen other key throws including crucial third down conversions. That gave Miami extra possessions and kept the MASH unit of a defense out on the field far too long.

On Defense, Gay and Burns lost their guy in coverage twice. Gay dropped a pick six. Up front, they got blown off the ball. Pure and simple. Nothing clever, no disguise by the Dolphins. The head coach cut multiple OL this week. Message delivered and heard. They just blew the Steelers off the ball. How was coaching going to change guys getting out-leveraged and put on their butts at the point of attack? That's a player problem. It isn't like the Dolphin's tricked them and Butler had his nickel and dime packages out there and they got gouged by the run. That was the base defense that got its butt kicked. That isn't a coaching problem. That is a combination of injuries, a lack of a pass rush, and Hargrave, Tuitt, Matthews, and Jones got their asses handed to them.

[DesertSteel]

I feel Ben often lacks crispness and intensity against really bad teams when we are heavily favored.

I also think this lack of urgency permeates through the entire team.

On a side note - we do have a lot of injuries also.

Yeah everybody seems to give Ben a pass when it comes to this crappy team let down. Sorry but he's the leader of the team and he played like crap. I put it on him more than Tomlin.

That said, this was the outcome I expected. This is a 10-6 team. Hope we get hot at the end.

[86WARD]

I really wish someone would explain to me how coaching leads to multiple bad throws by the QB and a total lack of a pass rush by the outside linebackers?

The players are not very good at key spots and the execution is even worse. In all seriousness, what specifically should the coaches be doing that they are not currently doing? I hear this after every loss. But it is never a specific critique.

Steelers Loss = Dumb Coaches. Steelers Win = great players. They are the same coaches and players in both cases...

There is a trend with the Tomlin teams every year when they play teams like the Dolphins, low energy, mismanaged game clock, poor tackling, poor fundamentals, all,around boneheaded plays. It doesn't improve, it just continues year after year and this is what people get frustrated with. At what point does the coaching staff fix it? :32 ran off the clock today backing up from the TD catch by Hamilton to what I believe was Brown's catch the play before. 32 seconds...I believe the clock went from 1:38 to 1:06. How does that happen? Brown on the next series was taking his time moseying back to the line of scrimmage to get the next play off. These are issues the coaching staff would need to address. Mitchell had a couple unnecessary penalties...again, something the coaching staff needs to address, but it continues to happen. Of course people are going to get frustrated...because the same mistakes are happening.

The team continues to do the same things over expecting different results...it's not happening.

[Craic]

How dare anyone utter a negative comment about Pope Tomlin. We can't expect him to be held accountable for anything, ever. It's just a complete oddity how we routinely lose to the worst teams in the league.

LMK when Belichick has a team get steamrolled by a 1-4 team who's only win was a nailbiter against the Browns

Be- Be- Be- Belichick!

http://www.endzonescore.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/deflate-gate-patriots-colts-memes-12.jpg

[teegre]

Despite all of this...

The Steelers are currently the #3 seed, and possibly the #2 seed (if the Raidaha lose).

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There is a trend with the Tomlin teams every year when they play teams like the Dolphins, low energy, mismanaged game clock, poor tackling, poor fundamentals, all,around boneheaded plays. It doesn't improve, it just continues year after year and this is what people get frustrated with. At what point does the coaching staff fix it? :32 ran off the clock today backing up from the TD catch by Hamilton to what I believe was Brown's catch the play before. 32 seconds...I believe the clock went from 1:38 to 1:06. How does that happen? Brown on the next series was taking his time moseying back to the line of scrimmage to get the next play off. These are issues the coaching staff would need to address. Mitchell had a couple unnecessary penalties...again, something the coaching staff needs to address, but it continues to happen. Of course people are going to get frustrated...because the same mistakes are happening.

The team continues to do the same things over expecting different results...it's not happening.

I will agree with you on this: Rogers and AB both failed to get out of bounds... letting over 60 seconds of play-clock expire.

I I disagree that that is 100% on Tomlin.

[Mojouw]

What was their gameplan? Certainly wasn't running Bell (10 carries). Certainly wasn't throwing to their hall of fame receiver (4 catches). Absolutely no idea WTF they're even trying to do on defense. No blitzes. Corners playing 20 yards off the WRs. Speaking of corners, wasn't Tomlin's main claim to fame that he's a defensive (specifically DB) coach? How in the name of Christ do we still have William Gay as our #1 corner? We haven't drafted and/or coached up a good corner since Rod Woodson. I know I know, you don't need good corners when you can pressure the QB with great linebackers! Yet, despite drafting tons of them year after year, James 'social security' Harrison is still our best.

Bell rushed 10 out of the total 15 rushes the team attempted. So we can reasonably extrapolate that Bell was intended to have a much bigger role on the ground, but constantly being in 3rd and long and losing on the scoreboard kinda screwed that up.

Roethlisberger attempted 34 passes and completed 19. Between them, Bell and Brown accounted for 10 of those completions. Brown was targeted on at least 4 more terrible throws by Ben that I remember. That to me points to a gameplan that was intending to feature Bell and Brown. A combination of defensive pressure by Miami (they collapsed Hubbard's side of the line multiple times and AV looked a bit overmatched at times) and a totally terrible game by the QB may have had something to do with throwing that game plan off. But, hell, what do I know? Maybe this was the game Haley was going to prove to everyone that he is the smartest OC alive and his plan was to feature Eli Rogers and Xavier Grimble.

Corners were not 10+ yards off the wideouts. Miami completed most of their passes on blown coverages (the deep ones) and just beating their guy underneath. This is not news. The Steelers DBs are not going to suddenly get better. They are who they are.

The pass rush sucks because the 2 best pass rushers on the roster are sitting on the bench hurt. It isn't complicated. You can't scheme up what you don't have.

I'm not certain what is big headline news here?

[teegre]

1. As Cam Heyward goes, so does this defense.

2. As Vince Williams goes, so does any hope of the defense being decent.

3. The Steelers are currently the #3 seed, and possibly the #2 seed (if the Raidaha lose).

[Mojouw]

There is a trend with the Tomlin teams every year when they play teams like the Dolphins, low energy, mismanaged game clock, poor tackling, poor fundamentals, all,around boneheaded plays. It doesn't improve, it just continues year after year and this is what people get frustrated with. At what point does the coaching staff fix it? :32 ran off the clock today backing up from the TD catch by Hamilton to what I believe was Brown's catch the play before. 32 seconds...I believe the clock went from 1:38 to 1:06. How does that happen? Brown on the next series was taking his time moseying back to the line of scrimmage to get the next play off. These are issues the coaching staff would need to address. Mitchell had a couple unnecessary penalties...again, something the coaching staff needs to address, but it continues to happen. Of course people are going to get frustrated...because the same mistakes are happening.

The team continues to do the same things over expecting different results...it's not happening.

Yup. That's what lost the game. Not the preceding 59 minutes of crap. Not the inability of the star QB to make basic NFL completions. Not the defense that had yielded 200+ yards on the ground because they get mauled by Miami's o-line. It was totally the body language and hustle of two players at the end of the game.

They should likely forfeit the rest of the games. Clearly the entire non-Munchak portion of the coaching staff is entirely over-matched and out of their depth at the NFL level. Maybe they should give the ping-pong tables back...

[awe1028]

They depend entirely on splash plays. They cannot force their will onto the opposing team. Without prayers and splash plays they will struggle in all games.

As for the defense, they have no idea what kind of defense to run. Jones needs to play less and Harrison needs to play more. Jones should only come in for breathers or during times when the defense and offense are clicking.

The bolded is exactly what's wrong with the Steelers. Harrison is the only OLB that can get pressure on the QB and ideally as you stated he should play more and Jarvis Jones less. Unfortunately Harrison is 38 yo so playing him too many snaps will drain him and reduce is effectiveness.

The lack of a pass rush from the OLBs is the elephant in the room and as long it isn't addressed the Steelers will be exactly what you see now inconsistent. They will look like world beaters then you'll have games like this where the offense struggles a bit and the defense (read pass rush) can't compensate to keep them in the game and well its Philadelphia all over again.

In fact I have already started checking out the best pass rushers in the upcoming draft who might be available when Pittsburgh picks.

[fansince'76]

How dare anyone utter a negative comment about Pope Tomlin. We can't expect him to be held accountable for anything, ever. It's just a complete oddity how we routinely lose to the worst teams in the league.

LMK when Belichick has a team get steamrolled by a 1-4 team who's only win was a nailbiter against the Browns

How about the 41-14 dickstomping by a one-win Chiefs team two years ago?

BTW, their bandwagon is open and taking applications. You're welcome...

[Terrapinstation]

Bell rushed 10 out of the total 15 rushes the team attempted. So we can reasonably extrapolate that Bell was intended to have a much bigger role on the ground, but constantly being in 3rd and long and losing on the scoreboard kinda screwed that up.

Roethlisberger attempted 34 passes and completed 19. Between them, Bell and Brown accounted for 10 of those completions. Brown was targeted on at least 4 more terrible throws by Ben that I remember. That to me points to a gameplan that was intending to feature Bell and Brown. A combination of defensive pressure by Miami (they collapsed Hubbard's side of the line multiple times and AV looked a bit overmatched at times) and a totally terrible game by the QB may have had something to do with throwing that game plan off. But, hell, what do I know? Maybe this was the game Haley was going to prove to everyone that he is the smartest OC alive and his plan was to feature Eli Rogers and Xavier Grimble.

Corners were not 10+ yards off the wideouts. Miami completed most of their passes on blown coverages (the deep ones) and just beating their guy underneath. This is not news. The Steelers DBs are not going to suddenly get better. They are who they are.

The pass rush sucks because the 2 best pass rushers on the roster are sitting on the bench hurt. It isn't complicated. You can't scheme up what you don't have.

I'm not certain what is big headline news here?

The big headline news should be that the Steelers got destroyed by one of the worst teams in the league. But unfortunately, that's not really news anymore.

I guess until our linebackers get healthy we should just forfeit. I mean, don't try to devise a strategy to help them out. Same with the Oline. Just keep doing what your doing and maybe it'll eventually work?

And again, who is at least partially responsible for having these players on the team in the first place?

[86WARD]

Despite all of this...

The Steelers are currently the #3 seed, and possibly the #2 seed (if the Raidaha lose).

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I will agree with you on this: Rogers and AB both failed to get out of bounds... letting over 60 seconds of play-clock expire.

I I disagree that that is 100% on Tomlin.

I'm not saying it's on Tomlin, but he and the coaching staff have to address those type of things and it appears that they don't always do that because things occur numerous times.

[teegre]

How about the 41-14 dickstomping by a one-win Chiefs team two years ago?

BTW, their bandwagon is open and taking applications. You're welcome...

Pffft... facts. :jerkit:

[Terrapinstation]

How about the 41-14 dickstomping by a one-win Chiefs team two years ago?

BTW, their bandwagon is open and taking applications. You're welcome...

Cool. One example. Want a list of games we lost to pathetic teams over the last few years?

[86WARD]

Yup. That's what lost the game. Not the preceding 59 minutes of crap. Not the inability of the star QB to make basic NFL completions. Not the defense that had yielded 200+ yards on the ground because they get mauled by Miami's o-line. It was totally the body language and hustle of two players at the end of the game.

They should likely forfeit the rest of the games. Clearly the entire non-Munchak portion of the coaching staff is entirely over-matched and out of their depth at the NFL level. Maybe they should give the ping-pong tables back...

I never said that alone lost the game. Merely trying to convey what some people may be frustrated about. Clearly in your eyes the coaching staff is perfect and about 43 new players need to be had...lol. But the shit play combined with poor clock management, poor decision making and the appearance that the team isn't there to play with energy or enthusiasm and you get your ass handed to you. Some of that falls on the coaching staff. If you think otherwise that's your opinion and I'd lean towards saying you never played organized sports.

[fansince'76]

Cool. One example. Want a list of games we lost to pathetic teams over the last few years?

Move them goalposts. You didn't ask for a list.

How about them dropping 4 of their last 6 last season? And remember, injuries are no excuse!

[teegre]

I'm not saying it's on Tomlin, but he and the coaching staff have to address those type of things and it appears that they don't always do that because things occur numerous times.

I get your point (wasting time), but I've never seen AB fail to get out of bounds.

IMO, the game was lost when Heyward, Williams, and BB got injured. The first two allowed for Ajayi to run rampant, the last one turned 15 TDs/5 games into 2 awful INTs.

[Craic]

There is a trend with the Tomlin teams every year when they play teams like the Dolphins, low energy, mismanaged game clock, poor tackling, poor fundamentals, all,around boneheaded plays. It doesn't improve, it just continues year after year and this is what people get frustrated with. At what point does the coaching staff fix it?

Don't know, it's been happening since 2006... er, I mean 1993 . . .oops, 1982(ish), and its getting frustrating.


:32 ran off the clock today backing up from the TD catch by Hamilton to what I believe was Brown's catch the play before. 32 seconds...I believe the clock went from 1:38 to 1:06. How does that happen? Brown on the next series was taking his time moseying back to the line of scrimmage to get the next play off. These are issues the coaching staff would need to address.
Yeah, except Ben is the one controlling the plays at that point, not Tomlin, and Ben's always been notoriously slow in those situations. I'm really not sure what you want the coaching staff to do when it's the players on the field who are running off the clock. They can yell and scream all they want. But until Ben starts getting faster, it's pretty much a wasted effort.


Mitchell had a couple unnecessary penalties...again
Nope. Mitchell got a couple penalties that even I, who I think everyone here would agree is usually the one who sees things the ref's way the most, had no idea what he was calling or why Mitchell got the penalties.


something the coaching staff needs to address,

So, except for losing a game, what is there too address? The bad reffing call, or trying to change your HOF QB's approach to the game in the two-minute drill?


but it continues to happen. Of course people are going to get frustrated...because the same mistakes are happening.

Of course, we completely ignore all the mistakes that's been fixed—little things such as Brown's celebration penalties (see last game, no penalty), improvement of the CBs over last year, etc., and also ignore the fact that we're down two or three starters on defense and very thin thereafter.



The team continues to do the same things over expecting different results...it's not happening.

Like not fixing the o line? Not getting a running game? Not improving the CBs? Not improving the redzone stats for the offense? Not improving the redzone stats for the defense?


Look, it was a bad game. We lost because of Ben had an off day, injuries coming into the game, injuries piling up in the game, and Miami coming in with a "This is a new season!" attitude after cutting starters this week. It was the concatenation of a number of issues. Let's not make it out to be any more than what it is. I'll agree not to make it out to be any less than what it is, either. We have one single big problem.

What is that problem? The entire team goes as Ben R. goes. If he has a good game, everyone has a good game and we win. If he has a bad game, everyone has a bad game and we lose. Why? You ask? Because our defense is full of rookies and young players that end up making mistakes if they're on the field too long, and our offense simply cannot move without Ben, as is true for most teams in the NFL unless you cheat your way to victory.

[Mojouw]

The big headline news should be that the Steelers got destroyed by one of the worst teams in the league. But unfortunately, that's not really news anymore.

I guess until our linebackers get healthy we should just forfeit. I mean, don't try to devise a strategy to help them out. Same with the Oline. Just keep doing what your doing and maybe it'll eventually work?

And again, who is at least partially responsible for having these players on the team in the first place?

You're right. Your potent and persuasive arguments have forced me to concede the point. Clearly this loss was due to a totally atrocious game plan and scheme by the coaching staff. Installation of the weekly plan must have unfortunately coincided with Tomlin's annual Mai-Tai's and Feelings retreat. It is a package deal with the Cool Cliches and Lying About Player Health seminar he attends every draft weekend - thus explaining all the bad players on the roster.

I'm so glad that we can all benefit from your staggering insights and detailed knowledge. Care to address what you would have done differently to account for the inexperience of Burns, Hargrave, and Chickfilet since they were all forced into the starting line-up? Any great ideas on how to fix the health concerns that have the Steelers 2 best pash rushers, and their best play-making linebacker nailed to the bench in sweat pants? Any penetrating insights about why Roethlisberger decided today was the day to forget how to complete 10 yard outs?

Oh. Wait. Coach better. Got it.

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I never said that alone lost the game. Merely trying to convey what some people may be frustrated about. Clearly in your eyes the coaching staff is perfect and about 43 new players need to be had...lol. But the shit play combined with poor clock management, poor decision making and the appearance that the team isn't there to play with energy or enthusiasm and you get your ass handed to you. Some of that falls on the coaching staff. If you think otherwise that's your opinion and I'd lean towards saying you never played organized sports.

I never said that the coaching staff is without blame. There is plenty. What about single blocking Cameron Wake with Jesse James? That was pretty damn dumb. What about the total lack of play action passing? What about not going to McCullers sooner? What about not pairing McCullers and Hargrave together on the line and sending Matthews to the bench? Why is Gilbert not getting tried out to give Burns a break - the rookie is clearly getting mentally overloaded. Should I go on?

I've played plenty of organized sports and I have been part of games where we just got our ass kicked and it had nothing to do with gameplan. Most of what happens between the lines is on the players. Not all that much coaches can do once the whistle blows.

[86WARD]

Cool. One example. Want a list of games we lost to pathetic teams over the last few years?

2009, Week 11: 6-3 Steelers lose to 2-7 Chiefs, 27-24. Line: Steelers -11.5

2009, Week 13: 6-5 Steelers lose to 3-8 Raiders, 27-24. Line: Steelers -15.0

2009, Week 14: 6-6 Steelers lose to 1-11 Browns, 13-6. Line: Steelers -10.0

2012, Week 3: 1-1 Steelers lose to 0-2 Raiders, 34-31. Line: Steelers -4.0

2012, Week 6: 2-2 Steelers lose to 1-4 Titans, 26-23. Line: Steelers -6.5

2012, Week 12: 6-4 Steelers lose to 2-8 Browns, 20-14. Line: Steelers -2.0

2012, Week 14: 7-4 Steelers lose to 4-8 Chargers, 34-24. Line: Steelers -7.5

2013, Week 4: 0-3 Steelers lose to 0-3 Vikings, 34-27. Line: Steelers -3.0

2013, Week 8: 2-4 Steelers lose to 2-4 Raiders, 21-18. Line: Steelers -2.5

2014, Week 4: 2-1 Steelers lose to 0-3 Buccaneers, 27-24. Line: Steelers -7.5

2014, Week 10: 6-3 Steelers lose to 1-8 Jets, 20-13. Line: Steelers -4.0

2014, Week 13: 7-4 Steelers lose to the 4-7 Saints, 35-32. Line: Steelers -3.5

2015, Week 16: 9-5 Steelers lose to the 4-10 Ravens, 20-10. Line: Steelers -10.0

2016, Week 6: 4-1 Steelers lose to the 1-4 Dolphins, 30-15. Line: Steelers -7.0

[86WARD]

Don't know, it's been happening since 2006... er, I mean 1993 . . .oops, 1982(ish), and its getting frustrating.


Yeah, except Ben is the one controlling the plays at that point, not Tomlin, and Ben's always been notoriously slow in those situations. I'm really not sure what you want the coaching staff to do when it's the players on the field who are running off the clock. They can yell and scream all they want. But until Ben starts getting faster, it's pretty much a wasted effort.


Nope. Mitchell got a couple penalties that even I, who I think everyone here would agree is usually the one who sees things the ref's way the most, had no idea what he was calling or why Mitchell got the penalties.



So, except for losing a game, what is there too address? The bad reffing call, or trying to change your HOF QB's approach to the game in the two-minute drill?



Of course, we completely ignore all the mistakes that's been fixed—little things such as Brown's celebration penalties (see last game, no penalty), improvement of the CBs over last year, etc., and also ignore the fact that we're down two or three starters on defense and very thin thereafter.




Like not fixing the o line? Not getting a running game? Not improving the CBs? Not improving the redzone stats for the offense? Not improving the redzone stats for the defense?


Look, it was a bad game. We lost because of Ben had an off day, injuries coming into the game, injuries piling up in the game, and Miami coming in with a "This is a new season!" attitude after cutting starters this week. It was the concatenation of a number of issues. Let's not make it out to be any more than what it is. I'll agree not to make it out to be any less than what it is, either. We have one single big problem.

What is that problem? The entire team goes as Ben R. goes. If he has a good game, everyone has a good game and we win. If he has a bad game, everyone has a bad game and we lose. Why? You ask? Because our defense is full of rookies and young players that end up making mistakes if they're on the field too long, and our offense simply cannot move without Ben, as is true for most teams in the NFL unless you cheat your way to victory.

So I guess you're right...the coaching staff shares no fault in the loss. Business as usual. Pass the Kool Aid.

[Terrapinstation]

You're right. Your potent and persuasive arguments have forced me to concede the point. Clearly this loss was due to a totally atrocious game plan and scheme by the coaching staff. Installation of the weekly plan must have unfortunately coincided with Tomlin's annual Mai-Tai's and Feelings retreat. It is a package deal with the Cool Cliches and Lying About Player Health seminar he attends every draft weekend - thus explaining all the bad players on the roster.

I'm so glad that we can all benefit from your staggering insights and detailed knowledge. Care to address what you would have done differently to account for the inexperience of Burns, Hargrave, and Chickfilet since they were all forced into the starting line-up? Any great ideas on how to fix the health concerns that have the Steelers 2 best pash rushers, and their best play-making linebacker nailed to the bench in sweat pants? Any penetrating insights about why Roethlisberger decided today was the day to forget how to complete 10 yard outs?

Oh. Wait. Coach better. Got it.

Well they could start with drafting better players. Maybe taking an undersized middle linebacker 15th overall wasn't the best idea. Hopefully Chickelo and those backups improve, cause Shazier is and will also be out of the lineup almost as often as he's in it.

I don't blame the loss soley on Tomlin or coaching. But it's a big part of it. Obviously you believe Tomlin can do no wrong, ever, and that's cool too. Besides, what matters most are endzone celebrations and what some guy's gonna put on his shoes.

- - - Updated - - -


2009, Week 11: 6-3 Steelers lose to 2-7 Chiefs, 27-24. Line: Steelers -11.5

2009, Week 13: 6-5 Steelers lose to 3-8 Raiders, 27-24. Line: Steelers -15.0

2009, Week 14: 6-6 Steelers lose to 1-11 Browns, 13-6. Line: Steelers -10.0

2012, Week 3: 1-1 Steelers lose to 0-2 Raiders, 34-31. Line: Steelers -4.0

2012, Week 6: 2-2 Steelers lose to 1-4 Titans, 26-23. Line: Steelers -6.5

2012, Week 12: 6-4 Steelers lose to 2-8 Browns, 20-14. Line: Steelers -2.0

2012, Week 14: 7-4 Steelers lose to 4-8 Chargers, 34-24. Line: Steelers -7.5

2013, Week 4: 0-3 Steelers lose to 0-3 Vikings, 34-27. Line: Steelers -3.0

2013, Week 8: 2-4 Steelers lose to 2-4 Raiders, 21-18. Line: Steelers -2.5

2014, Week 4: 2-1 Steelers lose to 0-3 Buccaneers, 27-24. Line: Steelers -7.5

2014, Week 10: 6-3 Steelers lose to 1-8 Jets, 20-13. Line: Steelers -4.0

2014, Week 13: 7-4 Steelers lose to the 4-7 Saints, 35-32. Line: Steelers -3.5

2015, Week 16: 9-5 Steelers lose to the 4-10 Ravens, 20-10. Line: Steelers -10.0

2016, Week 6: 4-1 Steelers lose to the 1-4 Dolphins, 30-15. Line: Steelers -7.0

Don't forget getting 'Tebowed' in the playoffs

[Mojouw]

2009, Week 11: 6-3 Steelers lose to 2-7 Chiefs, 27-24. Line: Steelers -11.5

2009, Week 13: 6-5 Steelers lose to 3-8 Raiders, 27-24. Line: Steelers -15.0

2009, Week 14: 6-6 Steelers lose to 1-11 Browns, 13-6. Line: Steelers -10.0

2012, Week 3: 1-1 Steelers lose to 0-2 Raiders, 34-31. Line: Steelers -4.0

2012, Week 6: 2-2 Steelers lose to 1-4 Titans, 26-23. Line: Steelers -6.5

2012, Week 12: 6-4 Steelers lose to 2-8 Browns, 20-14. Line: Steelers -2.0

2012, Week 14: 7-4 Steelers lose to 4-8 Chargers, 34-24. Line: Steelers -7.5

2013, Week 4: 0-3 Steelers lose to 0-3 Vikings, 34-27. Line: Steelers -3.0

2013, Week 8: 2-4 Steelers lose to 2-4 Raiders, 21-18. Line: Steelers -2.5

2014, Week 4: 2-1 Steelers lose to 0-3 Buccaneers, 27-24. Line: Steelers -7.5

2014, Week 10: 6-3 Steelers lose to 1-8 Jets, 20-13. Line: Steelers -4.0

2014, Week 13: 7-4 Steelers lose to the 4-7 Saints, 35-32. Line: Steelers -3.5

2015, Week 16: 9-5 Steelers lose to the 4-10 Ravens, 20-10. Line: Steelers -10.0

2016, Week 6: 4-1 Steelers lose to the 1-4 Dolphins, 30-15. Line: Steelers -7.0

Alright, now we have some data points. But without context they mean nothing. Pick some other teams and do the same thing, preferably teams with similar winning percentages during the same time period as the Steelers. My guess would be that we could use some combination of the Pats, Packers, Seahawks, Cowboys, and Ravens for other teams that have won about 2/3 of their games over the last 8 years or so.

How many games with similar odds have they dropped? If it is significantly more than the Steelers than we can conclude that the Steelers have a problem. If it is not, then we can conclude that the modern, salary cap enforced parity driven NFL is the precise definition of "any given sunday". Outside of that, we have a list of games that fans and oddsmakers thought that one team should win and despite that they lost. But what such a list does not provide is the ability to draw any conclusions from it. Is it a weird quirky stat? Is it in line with other "good" (and it would have to be "good" teams as "bad" teams would not be favored in a high enough % of their games to generate a list like that) NFL teams? Is it in line with other prominent coaches?

I have no idea, but until someone looks into it, we are all just yelling out of our asses about stuff. Which can be cathartic and entertaining...

[lipps83]

Move them goalposts. You didn't ask for a list.

How about them dropping 4 of their last 6 last season? And remember, injuries are no excuse!

To be fair, he asked for a 1-4 team that would finish the season with a losing record, and you gave him a 1-2 team that finished the season 9-7.

[Mojouw]

Here is the best data set I could find - https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_since_2009&sc=is_fav

The Steelers are 9th in wins when favored since 2009. They are only 7 games off the 77% pass set by the Packers (68/88 = 77%). So that means one game a year. The Steelers are one game a year worse against the odds than the best team in the NFL for the last 7 years.

Clearly the team is in crisis.

- - - Updated - - -

Here is where they are bad - as favorites on the road: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_since_2009&sc=is_away_fav and as away underdogs: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_since_2009&sc=is_away_dog

[86WARD]

Alright, now we have some data points. But without context they mean nothing. Pick some other teams and do the same thing, preferably teams with similar winning percentages during the same time period as the Steelers. My guess would be that we could use some combination of the Pats, Packers, Seahawks, Cowboys, and Ravens for other teams that have won about 2/3 of their games over the last 8 years or so.

How many games with similar odds have they dropped? If it is significantly more than the Steelers than we can conclude that the Steelers have a problem. If it is not, then we can conclude that the modern, salary cap enforced parity driven NFL is the precise definition of "any given sunday". Outside of that, we have a list of games that fans and oddsmakers thought that one team should win and despite that they lost. But what such a list does not provide is the ability to draw any conclusions from it. Is it a weird quirky stat? Is it in line with other "good" (and it would have to be "good" teams as "bad" teams would not be favored in a high enough % of their games to generate a list like that) NFL teams? Is it in line with other prominent coaches?

I have no idea, but until someone looks into it, we are all just yelling out of our asses about stuff. Which can be cathartic and entertaining...

Again, this is a theory on why the fan base is always crying out when they lose this way. Is it true? I have no idea, but these are observations that have been seen and comments that have been heard. Frankly, I don't give two shits about what other teams do. I care what happens in Pittsburgh and today was a full fledged shit show for the second time in 4 weeks.

[Mojouw]

Again, this is a theory on why the fan base is always crying out when they lose this way. Is it true? I have no idea, but these are observations that have been seen and comments that have been heard. Frankly, I don't give two shits about what other teams do. I care what happens in Pittsburgh and today was a full fledged shit show for the second time in 4 weeks.

Fair enough. That is all not open to debate - it is totally true. But think about it this way. We as fans are attempting to evaluate the performance of our franchise's ownership, coaches, scouts, players, and whatever else we want to based on some measurement of success. With going undefeated and a SB trophy on one extreme and going winless and getting the first pick in the draft on the other. My only argument when it comes to that evaluation is that we have to have some sort of reasonable expectation in mind. The best way I know to devise a reasonable expectation is to look at what the other 31 NFL teams are doing. Evaluate the Steelers against their peers.

Based on that they are 9th in the league since 2009 at winning games they are favored in. So could they do better? Certainly. Are they 1 game a year away from leading the league in that category? Yes. I argue that the team is not really the traveling shit-show too many of us make it out to be.

[WCSteeler]

2009, Week 11: 6-3 Steelers lose to 2-7 Chiefs, 27-24. Line: Steelers -11.5

2009, Week 13: 6-5 Steelers lose to 3-8 Raiders, 27-24. Line: Steelers -15.0

2009, Week 14: 6-6 Steelers lose to 1-11 Browns, 13-6. Line: Steelers -10.0

2012, Week 3: 1-1 Steelers lose to 0-2 Raiders, 34-31. Line: Steelers -4.0

2012, Week 6: 2-2 Steelers lose to 1-4 Titans, 26-23. Line: Steelers -6.5

2012, Week 12: 6-4 Steelers lose to 2-8 Browns, 20-14. Line: Steelers -2.0

2012, Week 14: 7-4 Steelers lose to 4-8 Chargers, 34-24. Line: Steelers -7.5

2013, Week 4: 0-3 Steelers lose to 0-3 Vikings, 34-27. Line: Steelers -3.0

2013, Week 8: 2-4 Steelers lose to 2-4 Raiders, 21-18. Line: Steelers -2.5

2014, Week 4: 2-1 Steelers lose to 0-3 Buccaneers, 27-24. Line: Steelers -7.5

2014, Week 10: 6-3 Steelers lose to 1-8 Jets, 20-13. Line: Steelers -4.0

2014, Week 13: 7-4 Steelers lose to the 4-7 Saints, 35-32. Line: Steelers -3.5

2015, Week 16: 9-5 Steelers lose to the 4-10 Ravens, 20-10. Line: Steelers -10.0

2016, Week 6: 4-1 Steelers lose to the 1-4 Dolphins, 30-15. Line: Steelers -7.0

These numbers should make Steeler fan nervous add to that the teams number of playoff wins since 2011. The team needs an attitude adjustment, what's posted above is not someone opinion on how this team is coached or performs against poor teams but anot ugly trend that is effecting this team negatively. How ever you feel about coach Tomlin doesn't change the fact that this team is routinely beaten by teams that have no business rolling over a team with a future HOF QB.

[86WARD]

This is concerning:


After this loss. Steelers will be 5-11 in last 16 road games against sub.500 teams.

https://twitter.com/markkaboly/status/787740592818257920

I will go out on a limb and say that the "premiere teams" in the league aren't that bad against sub .500 teams.

It's a matter of beating the teams your supposed to beat...

[Steeldude]

Do the Steelers have the slowest hurry up offense? It seems like it takes them 30+ seconds to run each play.

[tube517]

Do the Steelers have the slowest hurry up offense? It seems like it takes them 30+ seconds to run each play.

Even in "hurryup", it sure seems that way.

[Iron Steeler]

We lost when we were down 8-23. And plenty of yime in the 3rd quarter to put a drive together. Although what doea Ben do, take a shot deep to coates. Take another shot and we go three and out.

So who is to blame?

My opinion, Ben and the coaches.

Depends on who is calling the plays. They should have slowed the game down, and ensured a TD and made it a one score game. Let the defense rest. Plus the momentum would have helped make a home miami crowd simmer down.

My opionion again, that one deep bomb attempt was the time in the game we should of slowed it down.

[zulater]

One thing that deserves mentioning that hasn't been so far as I've seen on this thread. Can't say it hasn't been mentioned on the board because I'm catching up on things.

Anyway the Dolphins aren't as bad as their record would suggest. This was the first game all season when they fielded their offensive line intact. They were playing for their season. And their best against the Steelers not very good, at home, is going to win every time.

Another thing. I don't want this to come across wrong, but I've heard several opposing players allude to this, the traveling Steeler fan base can sometimes serve to fire up the home team. These guys have pride. They're pros too. So here they are, season on the line, finally healthy, and the building is half full of the opposing fan base. Maybe they mailed it in last week. Maybe after their next loss they'll mail it in the following week. But not today. Today we got a fired up team that played as if they had something to prove to the world and themselves.

And lastly not to make it all about the Dolphins. But early this week Dejan Kovacevic referred to a perceptible and growing rift between Ben and AB. Keep in mind he wrote about this days after a big Steelers win. I haven't seen this last game yet ( I was working) but I saw it mentioned in the game story that AB wasn't targeted on any of the first 14 Steeler plays. So if you want to blame Tomlin for something blame him if these two aren't brought in this week to have their heads banged together until they get this rift behind them! They need each other for this offense to excel.

Anyway I'll reserve judgement on this team until I see how they come back off next week's game and then the bye. I still think when healthy this team still has good potential. But the offense needs to start pulling in the same direction together. I might be wrong, but I think right now what we have is a qb and a diva wr each trying to show themselves to be top dog.

[Dwinsgames]

Just popped in to make sure Zu didn't blow a gasket .

after today's game .. I've got nothing to say that would be considered kind so I will say nothing

enough football for a bit glad its 2 weeks for them to stew over this loss before taking on the Cheatriots

[zulater]

Just popped in to make sure Zu didn't blow a gasket .

after today's game .. I've got nothing to say that would be considered kind so I will say nothing

enough football for a bit glad its 2 weeks for them to stew over this loss before taking on the Cheatriots

The bye is after the Patriots game! :lol:

[Dwinsgames]

The bye is after the Patriots game! :lol:

got you to laugh anyways :alcohol:

[zulater]

got you to laugh anyways :alcohol:

Hey compared to most of the board I think I'm handling things most excellently!:smoker:

[Dwinsgames]

Hey compared to most of the board I think I'm handling things most excellently!:smoker:

thats another reason for concern LOL