Steelers want to scrap linebacker rotation, keep Jones, Dupree on field at all times

[polamalubeast]

LATROBE – While the Pirates still try to figure out their pitching rotation three quarters of the way through their season, the Steelers are hoping to scrap the one they used last year.

Pittsburgh rotated outside linebackers Jarvis Jones, Bud Dupree, James Harrison and Arthur Moats, though it wasn’t always an even split.

On the left side, the veteran Moats and rookie Bud Dupree split time almost evenly despite Moats starting 11 games and Dupree five.

On the other side, however, it was Harrison playing 55 percent of the snaps and leading the Steelers’ linebackers in playing time despite Jones starting 15 of the 16 games.

That could change.

Outside linebackers coach Joey Porter said Sunday the Steelers have high expectations for Jones and Dupree, who opened training camp at Saint Vincent College as the starters.

“I don’t think the rotation will be what it was,” Porter said. “If (Jones and Dupree) are going to play like we think they can, I’m going to play the hot hand.”

Part of the issue is age. At 38, Harrison, a former NFL Defensive Player of the Year, can’t be counted on to handle the 611 snaps he played last season. The Steelers want to scale back that number.

“I hope he’s got a Super Bowl left in him. I hope that,” defensive coordinator Keith Butler said. “He can help us just by his work ethic and what he does on the field. He’s going to help us rest those guys now and then. We’ll see.”


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http://www.observer-reporter.com/20160731/steelers_want_to_scrap_linebacker_rotation#.V59QJ_ 2OslM.twitter

[BlackAndGold]

As they should..

They should be fine with Jarvis staying on the field. Say what you want about his pass rushing(even tho that's what got him drafted), he's great at holding the point of attack against the run.

With Heyward, Tuitt, & hopefully Dupree, we should have enough to get consistent pressure on the QB.


Edit: Btw, why in the hell did the coaching staff let Jarvis get up to 270lbs last year? He wasn't that much of an athlete to begin with, that extra weight couldn't have helped. He's back down to 250lb now, as is Dupree.

[polamalubeast]

I understand this is important to reduce the number of snap of Harrison but in the passing situations, Jones is useless.And I think that the run defense would still be very good without Jones.

[Born2Steel]

I understand this is important to reduce the number of snap of Harrison but in the passing situations, Jones is useless.And I think that the run defense would still be very good without Jones.

Don't forget Chickillo.

[polamalubeast]

Don't forget Chickillo.

I forget about Chickillo but if he is better than Jones in the training camp and preseason,I hope he will see the field more often than Jones.

[lotas]

I think Jarvis takes a lot of shit for the low sack numbers but I admire and appreciate the way he puts his head down and goes to work, he's consistent nonetheless. I really had high hopes for Bud Dupree the first half of last season and things sort of fizzled out for him as he hit that rookie wall, but I feel good about where he is at now with a season under his belt and getting in better shape.

This team is going to be substantially better than they were last year on both sides of the ball. That's almost scary, considering what they were able to do last year with the crazy puzzle-piece assembly of teams they had game by game.

I haven't been this excited and confident in our team on both sides of the ball since maybe 2008. I never felt comfortable in our 2010 SB team with Mendenhall and the still subpar O-line. Things just feel right this year. Bring it on.

[Steeldude]

So another year of Jones being handed the starting job because of his draft status. So much for a SB run.

[Born2Steel]

So another year of Jones being handed the starting job because of his draft status. So much for a SB run.

Nobody gets "handed" anything. If he is better than the rest, he starts. No team can keep the same 2 OLBs on the field for every snap, so the header makes no sense. But as with every other position, the starters will EARN their job.

[Steeldude]

Nobody gets "handed" anything. If he is better than the rest, he starts. No team can keep the same 2 OLBs on the field for every snap, so the header makes no sense. But as with every other position, the starters will EARN their job.

And you are incorrect. Jones has repeatedly been handed the starting based on his draft status. Are you actually claiming it is based on ability? He clearly wasn't the best last year, but he started. The same goes for prior years. If he was a late round pick he would have been cut long ago.

[polamalubeast]

And you are incorrect. Jones has repeatedly been handed the starting based on his draft status. Are you actually claiming it is based on ability? He clearly wasn't the best last year, but he started. The same goes for prior years. If he was a late round pick he would have been cut long ago.

James Harrison had more snaps than Jones last year even if Jones was the starter....

[Steeldude]

James Harrison had more snaps than Jones last year even if Jones was the starter....

Yes, and Jones should have had even less snaps. Now it seems they want far less of Harrison. Jones should spell Harrison. I'm tired of seeing Jones get thrown around and picking himself up. I really hope Chickillo shines in camp and pre-season. I would love to see Jones reduced to the inactive list.

[Born2Steel]

And you are incorrect. Jones has repeatedly been handed the starting based on his draft status. Are you actually claiming it is based on ability? He clearly wasn't the best last year, but he started. The same goes for prior years. If he was a late round pick he would have been cut long ago.

No. You are incorrect. All jobs are earned. Even for Jones.

[Mojouw]

This is almost exactly the same thing the team said last off-season and then the "rotation" happened.

I predict that Jones will be 2016's Blake. If the team fails to win a SB it will almost totally be Jarvis' fault with an assist from Bongtavius and Le'Joint.

It must be stated (again) that Chickillo has looked decent to good on special teams in actual NFL games and potentially dangerous against guys that are now bagging groceries in preseason games.

That makes him the same as Howard Jones, Victor Soto, LJ Fort, Lemon, and I don't know how many other LB "prospects" over the years that were better than 3rd teamers but not able to run with the ones. Does that mean he will stay that way? Nope. Maybe this is the camp/preseason that Chick-filet proves he is a legit presence off the edge...Or...

Honestly, I am dreading the Chickillo, Matakevich, Ventrone, Hubbard, and Wallace love-fest that is going to go down around here as cut down day closes in.

[Steeldude]

No. You are incorrect. All jobs are earned. Even for Jones.

Then explain last year.

[Mojouw]

If you want to be hung up on the name at the top of the depth chart, rather than # of snaps, who played in critical game situations, etc - then there will be no room for logical discussion of the issue.

I am far too lazy to Google it right now, but I know that we have all discussed previously around here that basically Jones and Harrison played a similar # of snaps and Harrison was on the field in almost every critical defensive series. At worst, Jones and Harrison were "co-starters" last year. A case can be made that Jones was basically cannon fodder - soaking up run down snaps, hits, and early game defensive series, so that Harrison could keep his veteran body fresh for critical game situations and later season stretch run.

Or we could focus on who gets announced on the opening of the broadcast.

[Born2Steel]

Then explain last year.

However you may feel about Jones' individual play, he earned his spot each of his previous seasons. Can he be upgraded? Absolutely. But to say he gets 'handed' his playing time is false. He is the best option or he wouldn't be there.

[Steeldude]

However you may feel about Jones' individual play, he earned his spot each of his previous seasons. Can he be upgraded? Absolutely. But to say he gets 'handed' his playing time is false. He is the best option or he wouldn't be there.

Yet Harrison, at 38, is far superior. That is proven by the games and stats.

If Jones was a 6th round pick do you honestly think he would be starting each year?

[Mojouw]

Yet Harrison, at 38, is far superior. That is proven by the games and stats.

If Jones was a 6th round pick do you honestly think he would be starting each year?

Who cares who runs out of the tunnel? It is about the # of snaps and the game situation(s) that a given player sees the field. For all intents and purposes, Harrison was the preferred OLB over Jones last season. What is so difficult about that?

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/01/steelers-total-player-snap-counts-for-2015-season/

The formatting is a bit dodgy - but here it is in black and white and cold hard data - Harrison played more snaps than anyone else at OLB for the Steelers last year. Jones played the least. Do we need to keep having this debate on every OLB thread? I mean I guess if we are all bitter that Jones is getting a varsity letter or something...

PLAYER Snaps %

92-J.Harrison OLB * * 611 55%
48-B.Dupree OLB * * 563 51%
55-A.Moats OLB * * 554 50%
95-J.Jones OLB * * 454 41%

[Steeldude]

Who cares who runs out of the tunnel? It is about the # of snaps and the game situation(s) that a given player sees the field. For all intents and purposes, Harrison was the preferred OLB over Jones last season. What is so difficult about that?

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/01/steelers-total-player-snap-counts-for-2015-season/

The formatting is a bit dodgy - but here it is in black and white and cold hard data - Harrison played more snaps than anyone else at OLB for the Steelers last year. Jones played the least. Do we need to keep having this debate on every OLB thread? I mean I guess if we are all bitter that Jones is getting a varsity letter or something...

PLAYER Snaps %

92-J.Harrison OLB * * 611 55%
48-B.Dupree OLB * * 563 51%
55-A.Moats OLB * * 554 50%
95-J.Jones OLB * * 454 41%


The title is "Steelers want to scrap linebacker rotation, keep Jones, Dupree on field at all times". So if Jones is on the field at all times how does that affect the snap count? How does that affect the defense?

If it makes no difference then you would be fine will Landry Jones, Vince Williams and Wallace starting? Why do so many players want to start? Starting a game is significant in terms of getting your motor running and getting into game mode on the same footing as the your opponent who is starting the game also.

Nothing of any significance came from Jones last year or any year. If he starts fine, but cut his snaps to 20%. Don't increase the snaps to 90%. Of course there are scenarios when he could play more. For example, he could play more in blowouts or games against a poor offense.

[Born2Steel]

Yet Harrison, at 38, is far superior. That is proven by the games and stats.

If Jones was a 6th round pick do you honestly think he would be starting each year?

Yes. James is far superior, individually. But at 38 he cannot physically handle the beating he did before and make it to the end of the season. It doesn't matter what round Jones was drafted in. He's not a rookie, and he's not being paid like a star. He beat out the other possible OLBs for his spot on the roster. He was 'handed' nothing.

[Steeldude]

Yes. James is far superior, individually. But at 38 he cannot physically handle the beating he did before and make it to the end of the season. It doesn't matter what round Jones was drafted in. He's not a rookie, and he's not being paid like a star. He beat out the other possible OLBs for his spot on the roster. He was 'handed' nothing.

So if he beat out Harrison as the best option at OLB then why is Jones pulled during crucial times? You say he is the best option. So why is the best option sitting on the bench?

If Jones was a 6th round pick do you honestly think he would be starting each year?


But at 38 he cannot physically handle the beating he did before and make it to the end of the season.

I agree, but reducing Harrison to 10% or so of the snaps is going to kill the defense. No other LB on the roster has proven they can get to the QB. Jones can't really do it unless the tackle falls over.

[Craic]

Steeldude:

You seem to always forget something called development. Why does Jarvis get on the field? Because he has potential and they have to develop that potential. Some players take off immediately. Others take two, three, four years or so to develop. It's not just about "How good is he right at this moment." It's also about "How good does he have the potential to be." And, that answers your question as to why he was pulled during key plays. Development doesn't mean he's arrived.

And naturally, high draft picks get longer chances to prove themselves. Of COURSE they do. They're high draft picks because coaches see lots of potential in them. That's like saying the sky is blue.

[Steeldude]

Steeldude:

You seem to always forget something called development. Why does Jarvis get on the field? Because he has potential and they have to develop that potential. Some players take off immediately. Others take two, three, four years or so to develop. It's not just about "How good is he right at this moment." It's also about "How good does he have the potential to be." And, that answers your question as to why he was pulled during key plays. Development doesn't mean he's arrived.

And naturally, high draft picks get longer chances to prove themselves. Of COURSE they do. They're high draft picks because coaches see lots of potential in them. That's like saying the sky is blue.

A first round pick with 4+ years of development and not a single sign of promise. This reminds me of Kordell when it should be a Huey Richardson situation.

[Born2Steel]

So if he beat out Harrison as the best option at OLB then why is Jones pulled during crucial times? You say he is the best option. So why is the best option sitting on the bench?

If Jones was a 6th round pick do you honestly think he would be starting each year?





I agree, but reducing Harrison to 10% or so of the snaps is going to kill the defense. No other LB on the roster has proven they can get to the QB. Jones can't really do it unless the tackle falls over.

Already been explained.

[Steeldude]

Already been explained.

Then you agree he was handed the starting job based on draft status. You did say Harrison is the superior player.

[Born2Steel]

Then you agree he was handed the starting job based on draft status. You did say Harrison is the superior player.

No.

[st33lersguy]

There should be a rotation to keep everyone fresh. I will say if Bud breaks out and plays at a high level, it should make it easier on the player across from him. Harrison did play better than Jarvis last year, but they need to be careful with handling Harrison or he could break down and be less effective

[Mojouw]

The title is "Steelers want to scrap linebacker rotation, keep Jones, Dupree on field at all times". So if Jones is on the field at all times how does that affect the snap count? How does that affect the defense?

If it makes no difference then you would be fine will Landry Jones, Vince Williams and Wallace starting? Why do so many players want to start? Starting a game is significant in terms of getting your motor running and getting into game mode on the same footing as the your opponent who is starting the game also.

Nothing of any significance came from Jones last year or any year. If he starts fine, but cut his snaps to 20%. Don't increase the snaps to 90%. Of course there are scenarios when he could play more. For example, he could play more in blowouts or games against a poor offense.

Okay. But now you are arguing two things at once - who started in 2015 and who will start in 2016. I was simply pointing out that your initial statement was that Jones was handed a starting spot - which I assumed was talking about 2015 - is not really true.

If you are talking about 2016, well every team has a plan this early in camp. Who knows what will actually happen once the season starts. The Steelers had about the same plan in 2015. Jones was going to start and play the majority of the snaps. Once the regular season kicked in Harrison outplayed Jones. The OLB snap counts for 2015 reflect that. It would be ludicrous for a team with SB aspirations to rely on a 38 year old OLB to carry the load yet again.

In total, I agree with you. Jones is not very good. But to freak out every time this issue comes up is silly. The facts bear out that the Steelers play their most effective OLBs (unlike Dbs!).

I'm sure starting spots are important to players. I'm also sure contract $$'s, who drives what car, whose girl is hotter, and who can get in to what club are also important to them. If they want to get hung up on feelings and high school girl type emotions, that doesn't mean I have to.

The #'s document that James Harrison played starters snaps in 2015. I am certain that if performance dictates, he will do so again in 2016.

[polamalubeast]

760258055527292928

[Psycho Ward 86]

i would be ecstatic is Jones could put up close to a Clark Haggans level of pass rushing efficiency. that would honestly put our pass rush through the roof as long as Cam/Stephon keep doing their thing and Bud Dupree buds into his potential. and lets not sleep on our 2 ILB's. Timmons has quietly become one of the best interior pass rushing linebackers in the league and Shazier has the potential to be the very best

[polamalubeast]

On The Steelers: Porter sets a high bar for Jones, Dupree in 2016


Joey Porter has waited long enough, waited to see his old outside linebacker position become a dominant force on the Steelers defense again.

He thinks this will be the year, and he provided somewhat of a surprise prediction or two. He believes both former No. 1 draft picks, Jarvis Jones and Bud Dupree, can put the outside linebackers on the sack map again.

Jones? “If he stays healthy, I still see him being a guy who can give you double-digit sacks. I really do.”


Dupree? “I’m expecting double-digit sacks out of him, too.”

No Steelers player has had 10 sacks since James Harrison (10.5) and LaMarr Woodley (10) did it six seasons ago.

With that, Porter believes both starters will play more often than last season, when he rotated them with veterans Arthur Moats and Harrison. This season, he said they will not leave the field if they are producing.


read more

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2016/08/02/On-The-Steelers-can-Jarvis-Jones-Bud-Dupree-reach-Joey-Porter-expectations-in-2016/stories/201608010155