With healthy Big Ben leading potent offense, Steelers' Brown won't rule out 2,000-yard season

[stillers4me]

Antonio Brown danced, because Antonio Brown likes to dance, especially after scoring touchdowns.


And he did that a couple of times, including a pair after beating rookie first-rounder Artie Burns — during his first day at Steelers' organized team activities Thursday — hours after finishing his commitment to “Dancing with the Stars.”


It took only two plays for Brown to make it known that the football needs to be, and should be, thrown in his direction. It took only two plays for Brown to make that known again.


To get where Brown wants to be, there are going to have to be a lot of footballs thrown in his direction this season............

Read more @ http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/10502771-74/brown-yards-2000

[fansince'76]

He needs to stop talking smack! :hippo: :poker: :bond:

:chuckle:

[ALLD]

He needs to think about winning a SB and the yards will take care of themselves.

[fansince'76]

He needs to think about winning a SB and the yards will take care of themselves.

Once again, it's the media (as usual) bringing the subject up and AB simply responding to it:


Even though Brown downplayed 2,000 yards as a possibility, it is on his mind. (I guess Kaboly is a mind reader)

“I don't know,” Brown said. “That is a lot of yards. We will see.” (Yep, certainly sounds like stat padding is all AB cares about and the only thing on his mind is a 2K-yard season)

...And getting 2,000 yards? Brown wouldn't expand on the subject any more than he did, but his teammates believe he can.

Just another case of a writer justifying his job at a time when there's absolutely nothing else to write about.

AB wasn't here in 2008 and I'm sure he remembers the sting of falling short in 2010. I don't think there's any need to worry about what his real motivation is.

[polamalubeast]

2000 yards is very likely for Brown if Ben is healthy for the entire season.

[LloydWoodson]

I hope he doesn't get 2000 yards. I hope the Steelers get up by the half and have Bell and Deangelo run out the clock in the 2nd game after game.

I know... Tomlin likes to "keep the pressure on" meaning our blood pressure as the team allows some scrubs to claw back into games after being down.

[polamalubeast]

I hope he doesn't get 2000 yards. I hope the Steelers get up by the half and have Bell and Deangelo run out the clock in the 2nd game after game.

I know... Tomlin likes to "keep the pressure on" meaning our blood pressure as the team allows some scrubs to claw back into games after being down.


The worst thing to do when you have the lead is to be too conservative.Do you remember the game against the Browns in 2014 in week one?

The thing I liked the most of the 2015 season is that Tomlin stopped to give importance to the time of possession, because if you want the offense to play their big potential, the Steelers have to be aggressive.

[Psycho Ward 86]

The worst thing to do when you have the lead is to be too conservative.Do you remember the game against the Browns in 2014 in week one?

The thing I liked the most of the 2015 season is that Tomlin stopped to give importance to the time of possession, because if you want the offense to play their big potential, the Steelers have to be aggressive.

he did this plenty in 2014 as well. it helped us put the colts and ravens (2nd game) away when we went for it on 4th and short instead of opting for a long field goal with Suisham kicking. As i recall, both attempts resulted in TD's on days where Ben threw for 6 TD's apiece

[polamalubeast]

Yes, but in the first 6 games of 2014 the steelers have been too conservative.Same thing for the game against the Jets where Roethlisberger started the game 9/11 for 24 yards!!!!

I mean, the dink and dunk offense is not the strength of Roethlisberger, fortunately I have not seen it in 2015.

[LloydWoodson]

The OL is a helluva lot better now than it was 32 games ago. With Pouncey and DeCastro healthy together running lanes shouldn't be a problem.

Pittsburgh was 13th in passes as a percentage of offensive plays (62%) in 2015. The only playoff team with a higher percentage was NE at #2 with 65%.

Of the 7 teams that ran the most often 6 made the playoffs.

It's ironic to have to explain to Steelers fans that run + defense = championships (unless you are the Pats then Brady + cheating = championships)

I'm not saying run on 1st, 2nd and 3rd punt on 4th but I would like to see a little more smashmouth to close games.

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Calvin Johnson's 2,000 yard season came in a 5-11 or 6-10 year I think where the Lions set the record for most passes in a season. Stafford threw 700+ times!

Just saying I'd rather win games.

[polamalubeast]

The Steelers not have a great defense, so you can not be conservative.

Roethlisberger completed 68% of his passes last year, so pass the ball is not a bad option even when you have the lead.I'm not saying to ignore the run game, but when you have the lead, you can not ignore the passing game.

You said only the Patriots made the playoffs with more Attempts pass the steelers, but this stats mean nothing.I mean between 2008 to 2011,3 teams have made the Super Bowl by being 32th for the running game!

And Antonio Brown has to be productive if the Steelers want to win.The Steelers were 8-2 last year when he had at least 100 yards.

[hawaiiansteeler]

He needs to stop talking smack! :hippo: :poker: :bond:

:chuckle:

what AB really said is that he only cares about his own stats and not about the team, next thing you know there will be more new contract demands...

Bill Belicheat would never allow this kind of smack talking :hippo: :poker: :bond: :stirthepot:

[LloydWoodson]

"The Steelers were 8-2 when AB had 100 yards receiving."

Yeah OK. That means Ben was playing. I get it. Vick broke AB's string of games with 5 catches etc.

Who were the teams that made it to the Super Bowl while being dead last in rushing? The Pats and GB were 2 right? Maybe the Saints?

The Pats are one of the few teams that have a good record when their QB throws 40+ times. Rodgers actually does play similarly to Ben but the other 2 throw a TON of the dink and dunk passes that Ben hates. The short passing game in place of a running game is not Ben's strongest suit.

Whatever. Lots of people keep talking about how great throwing is. Can't argue with the results right?

[polamalubeast]

"The Steelers were 8-2 when AB had 100 yards receiving."

Yeah OK. That means Ben was playing. I get it. Vick broke AB's string of games with 5 catches etc.

Who were the teams that made it to the Super Bowl while being dead last in rushing? The Pats and GB were 2 right? Maybe the Saints?

The Pats are one of the few teams that have a good record when their QB throws 40+ times. Rodgers actually does play similarly to Ben but the other 2 throw a TON of the dink and dunk passes that Ben hates. The short passing game in place of a running game is not Ben's strongest suit.

Whatever. Lots of people keep talking about how great throwing is. Can't argue with the results right?



2008 Cardinals,2009 Colts and the 2011 Giants.

The pass/run ratio for the steelers is just fine....Not too high,not too low.

[tube517]

what AB really said is that he only cares about his own stats and not about the team, next thing you know there will be more new contract demands...

Bill Belicheat would never allow this kind of smack talking :hippo: :poker: :bond: :stirthepot:

AB is a secret investment banker who believes that Al Capone's vault still had some hidden items that Geraldo hid off camera. :hippo:

[LloydWoodson]

2008 Cardinals,2009 Colts and the 2011 Giants.

The pass/run ratio for the steelers is just fine....Not too high,not too low.

Well I'm sold. Roethlisberger's record of 12-30 when attempting 40+ throws is a coincidence.

The Steelers would be a top 5 defense if they didn't have to play the 4th quarter. In points allowed per quarter Steelers were 1st in the 3rd, 4th in the 2nd, 10th in the 1st... and 28th in the 4th quarter including allowing 10 ppg in the final 3 games against terrible QBs.

The Steelers gave up 8.8 ppg in the 4th and scored 8.4 ppg. 4th quarters are entirely too exciting in Pittsburgh. It is like Tomlin is trying to put his stamp on the team by winning in a way that was antithetical to Cowher ball. The 4th quarter is the only quarter where the Steelers were outscored by opponents.

[pczach]

It's just as it always has been. If you are able to pass the ball effectively and run the ball effectively, you are able to control the game and the clock.

Balance in an offensive attack accomplishes everything desired. How many times did those great Cowboy teams with Aikman, Smith, and Irvin start pounding the ball late in games to kill clock, then go play action and burn the defense over the top to seal games? When you can do both, that is always better than being one-dimensional. It also gives offenses the ability to win in more than one way.

If you told me right now that Ben will throw for 4400 yards, 38 touchdowns, 10 Interceptions....and the rushing attack was top 5 in the league....I would feel pretty confident that they would be playing for a Lombardi Trophy with just a reasonable, middle of the pack defense that can get to the quarterback and produce turnovers.

[polamalubeast]

Roethlisberger's record of 12-30 when attempting 40+ throws is a coincidence.



This stats mean nothing.When you're behind you are forced to pass the ball every times.

Just looking at the game against the Browns in 2014 at the week 6.I think Roethlisberger had only attempts 5 or 8 pass before the Browns leads 21-3 and Roethlisberger finished the game with 42 pass attempts.

For the points allowed in the 4th quarter, the Lack of depth at the D-line has hurt the Steelers.Just looking at the last drive of our last game in Denver.....

[LloydWoodson]

Exactly. Aikman makes my point for me 100%. Aikman was a game manager and a good one. He averaged 28 pass attempts per game on his career while winning 3 Super Bowls handing off to Emmitt.

Roethlisberger averaged 24 attempts per game in his first 2 seasons going to an AFC Championship and winning a Super Bowl.

In 2015 Roethlisberger as a vastly superior QB to his rookie self averaged 42 attempts per game and squeaked out a miracle Wild Card win over a Bengals team that hasn't won a playoff game in 25 years, was starting a backup QB with very little experience and still would not have won without the Hill fumble with 2 minutes left and bonehead penalties giving up 30 yards.

Still though. Nice to get a playoff win. The last win before that was the AFC Championship in 2011.

Shout out to Fitzpatrick and his 42 passer rating in Week 17 for even allowing the Steelers in the playoffs in the first place. It was like watching the Chiefs lose to the Chargers to determine our fate all over again.

Just squeaking by boys. Got the powerhouse O and a HOF QB and just squeaking in there to steal Wild Card wins.

I'm going to get attacked but facts are facts.

[polamalubeast]

It's just as it always has been. If you are able to pass the ball effectively and run the ball effectively, you are able to control the game and the clock.

Balance in an offensive attack accomplishes everything desired. How many times did those great Cowboy teams with Aikman, Smith, and Irvin start pounding the ball late in games to kill clock, then go play action and burn the defense over the top to seal games? When you can do both, that is always better than being one-dimensional. It also gives offenses the ability to win in more than one way.

If you told me right now that Ben will throw for 4400 yards, 38 touchdowns, 10 Interceptions....and the rushing attack was top 5 in the league....I would feel pretty confident that they would be playing for a Lombardi Trophy with just a reasonable, middle of the pack defense that can get to the quarterback and produce turnovers.


The offense is very balanced for the steelers.

The problem I have with playing the time of possession is that the game remains close for too long especially against bad teams.Just looking at the game against Tampa Bay in 2014.35 minute time of possession for the steelers, but unfortunately the game was close for too long and the steelers lost 27-24.


Last year in Week 2 against the 49ers, every drive TD lasted less than 4 minutes and the steelers have won 43-18.

[polamalubeast]

Exactly. Aikman makes my point for me 100%. Aikman was a game manager and a good one. He averaged 28 pass attempts per game on his career while winning 3 Super Bowls handing off to Emmitt.

Roethlisberger averaged 24 attempts per game in his first 2 seasons going to an AFC Championship and winning a Super Bowl.

In 2015 Roethlisberger as a vastly superior QB to his rookie self averaged 42 attempts per game and squeaked out a miracle Wild Card win over a Bengals team that hasn't won a playoff game in 25 years, was starting a backup QB with very little experience and still would not have won without the Hill fumble with 2 minutes left and bonehead penalties giving up 30 yards.

Still though. Nice to get a playoff win. The last win before that was the AFC Championship in 2011.

Shout out to Fitzpatrick and his 42 passer rating in Week 17 for even allowing the Steelers in the playoffs in the first place. It was like watching the Chiefs lose to the Chargers to determine our fate all over again.

Just squeaking by boys. Got the powerhouse O and a HOF QB and just squeaking in there to steal Wild Card wins.

I'm going to get attacked but facts are facts.


The steelers would won more easily if Ben would not get hurt against the Bengals....You can play for possession of the time when you have a great defense, but sorry but the defense is not the same as in 2004 and 2005.


Last year the Steelers finished at 10-6, even if Bell has missed 10 games,4 games for Ben and all season for Pouncey.And also the Steelers had the toughest schedule in the NFL.

[hawaiiansteeler]

AB is a secret investment banker who believes that Al Capone's vault still had some hidden items that Geraldo hid off camera. :hippo:

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/64656830.jpg

[LloydWoodson]

The Steelers defense being weaker now is true and all the more reason to control the ball and play conservative. The Seahawks look good in part because they were on the field for fewer snaps than any other D.

The Steelers D had 1,055 snaps while the O had 1,011. Now part of that is the poor secondary and high 3rd down conversion rates surrendered. But the fact is that hiding the D's flaws is not a part of the Steelers current philosophy.

The Steelers played conservatively in Ben's absence and were good enough to go 2-2 as well as close out the Rams game. With Ben making the crucial throws in those games in place of Vick the Steelers go 3-1 at least.

Roethlisberger is one of the best big play QBs in the NFL. He doesn't need 40 throws a game to make something happen. Ben is the best when throwing off play action (which rarely ever happens now). Ben now pump fakes and looks off the safeties and the Steelers often run with marginal effectiveness from the shotgun. It is a total change in philosophy and one that Ben likes.

I think it has been Ben vs the coaching staff since 2006. He complains less now because he is more mature but also because he got what he wanted. He is putting us great fantasy stats. I don't expect anything to change philosophically for the Steelers even though it could.

I 100% get abandoning the run when your offensive line is as bad as it was from 2007-2012. Not much point in running for 2-3 ypc when the D knows you are trying to run out the clock. With Munchak and hopefully a healthy Pouncey, Decastro and co. that is very different and running is once again a viable option.

Don't worry. You are right and I am wrong. Ben will continue to throw 40 times per game, it will be a big question mark whether the Steelers make the playoffs, the Steelers may or may not win a Wild Card over an inferior opponent... the standard is the standard and the Steelers coaching staff which knows a helluva lot more about football than I do agrees with pass first.

I admit that I am wrong. I don't have the credentials to be right. It's not a big deal. Also I am probably outnumbered 5:1 against my opinion.

Still... I am surprised that expectations aren't higher for a team with a HOF QB and what has been an elite defense up until recently. The Colts with Manning dominated a much easier division while the Patriots with Brady have dominated a comparatively tough division as have the Packers with Rodgers and the Seahawks with Wilson.

[polamalubeast]

30-35 pass per game is perfect for me.40-50 pass is also correct if the opponent is very strong against the run like the seahawks and the broncos.

During the regular season the Steelers attempted more than 50 pass against the seahawks and the Broncos(both team great against the run) and they scored over 30 points in each of his two games.

You must enjoy the first six weeks of the season in 2014 when the steelers were very conservative on offense.....

[pczach]

The offense is very balanced for the steelers.

The problem I have with playing the time of possession is that the game remains close for too long especially against bad teams.Just looking at the game against Tampa Bay in 2014.35 minute time of possession for the steelers, but unfortunately the game was close for too long and the steelers lost 27-24.


Last year in Week 2 against the 49ers, every drive TD lasted less than 4 minutes and the steelers have won 43-18.


My point is that you don't have to do one or the other.

You can control the clock, and score lots of points....while also keeping your defense fresh. They have been much better at possessing the ball the last few years. If Bell is healthy and his old self for the entire season with a strong dose of DeAngelo Williams, they will be a better offense and team in general. When your quarterback doesn't need to throw the ball 40 times, it means you are controlling the game and makes you a more versatile offensive team.

We know Ben is great. We know AB is great. We know Bell is great when healthy. If the offensive line does its job, and they don't go pass happy too much, they will also help the defense.

Not all this passing has been on Tomlin. Injuries to Bell and offensive lineman that have trouble run blocking have forced his hand a bit. They stayed with what they did best with the people they had. If the injuries stay reasonable this year, they could do what they've probably wanted to do the last couple years....Be very balanced and explosive.

I think it has been the plan all along. Not Ben throwing for 5000 yards and AB catching 2000 yards. If they both happen again, that's fine, but only if the running game is also dominant. That would mean an avalanche of points, time of possession, and wins.

[LloydWoodson]

Umm the Steelers were 3-3 after Week 6 in 2014. Ben attempted 37, 40 and 42 passes in those games. God damn how much more passing do you want?! Haha. In the wins Ben attempted 30, 34 and 36 passes.

Who won the Seahawks game again? I forget. Did the Steelers being down 3 scores in the 1st half affect their play selection vs the Broncos? Not having Bell?

Not to mention the Broncos countered the Steelers with a pass happy offense of their own. Osweiler was garbage in the 2nd half finishing 21/44. So yeah I guess you can beat a team that is executing the same stupid philosophy.

And the Seahawks were a much better team before Wilson got the big money and they felt they had to rationalize that by having him throw 40 times a game as well. 48 passes in the loss to the Panthers.

[LloydWoodson]

My point is that you don't have to do one or the other.

You can control the clock, and score lots of points....while also keeping your defense fresh. They have been much better at possessing the ball the last few years. If Bell is healthy and his old self for the entire season with a strong dose of DeAngelo Williams, they will be a better offense and team in general. When your quarterback doesn't need to throw the ball 40 times, it means you are controlling the game and makes you a more versatile offensive team.

We know Ben is great. We know AB is great. We know Bell is great when healthy. If the offensive line does its job, and they don't go pass happy too much, they will also help the defense.

Not all this passing has been on Tomlin. Injuries to Bell and offensive lineman that have trouble run blocking have forced his hand a bit. They stayed with what they did best with the people they had. If the injuries stay reasonable this year, they could do what they've probably wanted to do the last couple years....Be very balanced and explosive.

I think it has been the plan all along. Not Ben throwing for 5000 yards and AB catching 2000 yards. If they both happen again, that's fine, but only if the running game is also dominant. That would mean an avalanche of points, time of possession, and wins.

I agree with that. It's kind of a "Greatest Show on Turf" deal where as long as Bell is getting touches like Faulk got touches it counts towards a running game. Ben has shown that he can throw 50 times and beat a good team but that doesn't mean he should or that it is the best chance of winning.

Passes to Bell are great but he didn't account for Ben's attempts last year and Deangelo is not the same option.

It's a moot point. Tomlin has the offense he has been pushing for since 2008. He wants to air it out. It shall be done.

"With the 22nd pick of the 2017 NFL Draft the Steelers select..."

[polamalubeast]

Umm the Steelers were 3-3 after Week 6 in 2014. Ben attempted 37, 40 and 42 passes in those games. God damn how much more passing do you want?! Haha. In the wins Ben attempted 30, 34 and 36 passes.

Who won the Seahawks game again? I forget. Did the Steelers being down 3 scores in the 1st half affect their play selection vs the Broncos? Not having Bell?

Not to mention the Broncos countered the Steelers with a pass happy offense of their own. Osweiler was garbage in the 2nd half finishing 21/44. So yeah I guess you can beat a team that is executing the same stupid philosophy.

And the Seahawks were a much better team before Wilson got the big money and they felt they had to rationalize that by having him throw 40 times a game as well. 48 passes in the loss to the Panthers.

It was not the number of passes the problem,it was the dink and dunk the problem.Not to mention the game against the Browns where Ben had only attempted 5-8 pass until the browns had the lead 21-3.

The Steelers have not lost against the seahawks because of their offense...It was because the Steelers were horrible in 3rd down on defense.For the game against the Broncos, the Broncos and their awful offense had scored 4 TD in 4 drives in the first half ....

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I agree with that. It's kind of a "Greatest Show on Turf" deal where as long as Bell is getting touches like Faulk got touches it counts towards a running game. Ben has shown that he can throw 50 times and beat a good team but that doesn't mean he should or that it is the best chance of winning.

Passes to Bell are great but he didn't account for Ben's attempts last year and Deangelo is not the same option.

It's a moot point. Tomlin has the offense he has been pushing for since 2008. He wants to air it out. It shall be done.

"With the 22nd pick of the 2017 NFL Draft the Steelers select..."


I want the Steelers have the same philosophy as the greatest show on turf.Use Bell like Marshall Faulk and be aggressive with the passing game.

[LloydWoodson]

Did the Seahawks scoring 21 points off INTs resulting in 24, 37 and 39 yard TD drives have an effect on the games outcome?

We just see it differently. Like I said you are right.

We agree the secondary is bad so it is a predictable outcome when they have to defend a short field against an elite QB.

[polamalubeast]

Did the Seahawks scoring 21 points off INTs resulting in 24, 37 and 39 yard TD drives have an effect on the games outcome?

We just see it differently. Like I said you are right.

We agree the secondary is bad so it is a predictable outcome when they have to defend a short field against an elite QB.



One of his interceptions were on a fake FG.Wilson finished the game with 21 / 30,349 yards, 5 TD and a QB rating of 149.The seahawks were 7/13 on 3rd down and many were when they were on a 3rd down and long.


But you're right, 30 points and 2 turnovers on the road against the seahawks defense is bad, especially than Wilson had never won a game when his team gave at least 27 points before this game.


Seriously, wake up, the Steelers are an offensive team now and they must try to win with their offense and not with their defense and the time of possession.Fortunately the Steelers have begun to figured this after the defeat against the browns in week 6 when they started the game with 20 run in 25 plays or something like that and the Steelers were in a 21-3 hole because of that.

Since that game, the Steelers are 18-8, before the steelers were 19-19 with the dink and dunk by Todd Haley since 2012.

[Psycho Ward 86]

speaking of play action ive been wondering for years now why we havent been doing much of that...we have a great O-line now, combined with arguably the best RB, and perhaps the best deep thrower in the league. Chalk up half a dozen additional TD's if we sprinkle PA passes back into the play book

[LloydWoodson]

Steelers run less play action than any other team
in the NFL (11%).

I don't know why when they have a top 5 RB.

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One of his interceptions were on a fake FG.Wilson finished the game with 21 / 30,349 yards, 5 TD and a QB rating of 149.The seahawks were 7/13 on 3rd down and many were when they were on a 3rd down and long.


But you're right, 30 points and 2 turnovers on the road against the seahawks defense is bad, especially than Wilson had never won a game when his team gave at least 27 points before this game.


Seriously, wake up, the Steelers are an offensive team now and they must try to win with their offense and not with their defense and the time of possession.Fortunately the Steelers have begun to figured this after the defeat against the browns in week 6 when they started the game with 20 run in 25 plays or something like that and the Steelers were in a 21-3 hole because of that.

Since that game, the Steelers are 18-8, before the steelers were 19-19 with the dink and dunk by Todd Haley since 2012.

How is 3 interceptions 2 turnovers?

Yep. The Steelers have been trying to be an offensive team since Tomlin got here. Now they are. Great.

Bring on the mediocrity.

[polamalubeast]

Steelers run less play action than any other team
in the NFL (11%).

I don't know why when they have a top 5 RB.

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How is 3 interceptions 2 turnovers?

Yep. The Steelers have been trying to be an offensive team since Tomlin got here. Now they are. Great.

Bring on the mediocrity.



The steelers had 4 interceptions in the game against the seahawks.2 was by Roethlisberger, the other 2 it was on a fake FG and the other the game was over.

Since when be a offensive team is the mediocrity?

What you do not understand, the talent on this team is in the Offense

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Steelers run less play action than any other team
in the NFL (11%).

I don't know why when they have a top 5 RB.

While the Steelers could use more the play action but Bell is not only a great runner, he is also a great receiver.850 yards as a receiver in 2014.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Steelers run less play action than any other team
in the NFL (11%).



Embarassing. Never imagined it was quite that bad.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Steelers run less play action than any other team
in the NFL (11%).

I don't know why when they have a top 5 RB.



that really is an interesting stat, one that I can't for the life of me figure out why not.

got any theories why we would use what could be a dangerous weapon/tactic less than any other NFL team?

[LloydWoodson]

The steelers had 4 interceptions in the game against the seahawks.2 was by Roethlisberger, the other 2 it was on a fake FG and the other the game was over.

Since when be a offensive team is the mediocrity?

What you do not understand, the talent on this team is in the Offense

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While the Steelers could use more the play action but Bell is not only a great runner, he is also a great receiver.850 yards as a receiver in 2014.

Only Buffalo ran the ball more often than Carolina in 2015. Carolina was 1st in scoring. KC, Seattle and Cincinatti were other teams that were top 10 in rushing % of plays and scoring. Buffalo was 12th in scoring with Tyrod Taylor at QB ROFL.

Prior to Haley's arrival Ben had 2 offenses finish better than 12th in scoring. The Bills scored more points in 2015 by running the ball and with Tyrod Taylor at QB than the Steelers have in 8/12 seasons with a HOF QB... but running doesn't work.

Panthers ran the 2nd most and made the Super Bowl.

Broncos passed only 51% of the playoffs on the way to winning the Super Bowl.

But running doesn't work... and running means no points scored...

Somebodybis watching too much ESPN.

[polamalubeast]

Only Buffalo ran the ball more often than Carolina in 2015. Carolina was 1st in scoring. KC, Seattle and Cincinatti were other teams that were top 10 in rushing % of plays and scoring. Buffalo was 12th in scoring with Tyrod Taylor at QB ROFL.

Prior to Haley's arrival Ben had 2 offenses finish better than 12th in scoring. The Bills scored more points in 2015 by running the ball and with Tyrod Taylor at QB than the Steelers have in 8/12 seasons with a HOF QB... but running doesn't work.

Panthers ran the 2nd most and made the Super Bowl.

Broncos passed only 51% of the playoffs on the way to winning the Super Bowl.

But running doesn't work... and running means no points scored...

Somebodybis watching too much ESPN.




In fact, you have to play in the strengths of your team.When the Steelers scored 30 or more points in 6 games in a row, Ben attempted 39 passes or more in five of its games.The pass / run ratio is not the problem.The Bills and the Panthers had a running QB and the Panthers were very aggressive with the passing game, especially in the 2nd half of season

That's what I want of the steelers, be aggressive with the passing game and not be conservative regardless of the score.I do not care if the Steelers run 40 times in a game or pass 40 times in a game, but if the Steelers are not aggressive with the passing game, they will be terrible.....Just looking at the 2014 season.The Steelers were 8-0 when Ben had a YPA of 8.00 or more


And the broncos are a horrible example since they only won because of their defense.

[fansince'76]

that really is an interesting stat, one that I can't for the life of me figure out why not.

got any theories why we would use what could be a dangerous weapon/tactic less than any other NFL team?

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/640Haley102315.jpg

[lipps83]

Only Buffalo ran the ball more often than Carolina in 2015. Carolina was 1st in scoring. KC, Seattle and Cincinatti were other teams that were top 10 in rushing % of plays and scoring. Buffalo was 12th in scoring with Tyrod Taylor at QB ROFL.

Prior to Haley's arrival Ben had 2 offenses finish better than 12th in scoring. The Bills scored more points in 2015 by running the ball and with Tyrod Taylor at QB than the Steelers have in 8/12 seasons with a HOF QB... but running doesn't work.

Panthers ran the 2nd most and made the Super Bowl.

Broncos passed only 51% of the playoffs on the way to winning the Super Bowl.

But running doesn't work... and running means no points scored...

Somebodybis watching too much ESPN.

Every single team you mentioned (with the exception of the Bills) are a top defense. Literally in this order 1. Seahawks 2. Bengals 3. Chiefs 4. Broncos 6. Panthers. Most of those other teams rush attempts are probably from points in the game where they have a good lead and a great defense to protect that lead.

You make it sound like the Panthers success was based on the run game, but 66% of their TD's came from the passing game. Cam Newton was the league MVP for a reason, and that reason wasn't due to him handing off the ball real good. In fact, they were 2nd in the league in passing TDs and were also 1st in rushing TD's.

Steelers don't have the defense to do what you want to do at a successful level. It has nothing to do with putting on an impressive show.

For a team to be successful, they have to play to their strengths. This defense is liable to lose a lead when the clock hits 0:00 and the other teams offense is already off the field.

Have you watched this defense at all over the last 5 years?

[st33lersguy]

Exactly. Aikman makes my point for me 100%. Aikman was a game manager and a good one. He averaged 28 pass attempts per game on his career while winning 3 Super Bowls handing off to Emmitt.

Roethlisberger averaged 24 attempts per game in his first 2 seasons going to an AFC Championship and winning a Super Bowl.

In 2015 Roethlisberger as a vastly superior QB to his rookie self averaged 42 attempts per game and squeaked out a miracle Wild Card win over a Bengals team that hasn't won a playoff game in 25 years, was starting a backup QB with very little experience and still would not have won without the Hill fumble with 2 minutes left and bonehead penalties giving up 30 yards.

Still though. Nice to get a playoff win. The last win before that was the AFC Championship in 2011.

Shout out to Fitzpatrick and his 42 passer rating in Week 17 for even allowing the Steelers in the playoffs in the first place. It was like watching the Chiefs lose to the Chargers to determine our fate all over again.

Just squeaking by boys. Got the powerhouse O and a HOF QB and just squeaking in there to steal Wild Card wins.

I'm going to get attacked but facts are facts.

So, the fact that Pittsburgh passed the ball a lot was the reason they didn't do better than 10-6 and the divisional round, and not because of injuries or a suspect defense? Oh, and you mention Dallas of the 90s, it should be noted that Dallas had a top notch defense during that time as well

[Psycho Ward 86]

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/640Haley102315.jpg

its a miracle honestly that our deep passing game thrived as much as it did. i was pushing for more intermediate level passes rather than deep passes all season because of the unecessary picks i thought we were throwing, but if more of those deep passes were PA, that TD/INT ratio would have definitely been a whole lot prettier. and Ben, even though he led the league in completion % on deep passes if i recall correctly, would have bumped that % even higher

[st33lersguy]

The Steelers have the talent to air it out and seemed to play better when they were. The Steelers best stretch of the season was the 5-1 stretch from Oakland to Denver. The Steelers as a team averaged 46 attempts per game in that stretch so airing it out with the right QB and the right corps of WR can work and frankly, with how much the defense gives up through the air, they are more apt to win by playing aggressive than by playing ball control

[LloydWoodson]

Every single team you mentioned (with the exception of the Bills) are a top defense. Literally in this order 1. Seahawks 2. Bengals 3. Chiefs 4. Broncos 6. Panthers. Most of those other teams rush attempts are probably from points in the game where they have a good lead and a great defense to protect that lead.

You make it sound like the Panthers success was based on the run game, but 66% of their TD's came from the passing game. Cam Newton was the league MVP for a reason, and that reason wasn't due to him handing off the ball real good. In fact, they were 2nd in the league in passing TDs and were also 1st in rushing TD's.

Steelers don't have the defense to do what you want to do at a successful level. It has nothing to do with putting on an impressive show.

For a team to be successful, they have to play to their strengths. This defense is liable to lose a lead when the clock hits 0:00 and the other teams offense is already off the field.

Have you watched this defense at all over the last 5 years?

Here's the thing... the Steelers D was 4th in sacks and 3rd in turnovers this year... but still finished -2 in turnover margin.

All the teams I listed that ran the most had the fewest giveaways. High risk offenses put the defense in bad spots.

Just like it was shrugged off that Russell Wilson who had an MVP type year last year was given the ball inside the Steelers 40 3 times. As if the D wouldn't give up a minimum of 9 points.

Steelers were 24th in opponents average starting position (29 yard line). Again... run heavy teams were all in the top half while pass happy teams even with good QBs like Pitt, SD, Det saw their opponents start in better field position.

Top 5 teams in average start position: SEA, NE, KC, CIN, MIN
Top 5 teams in fewest giveaways: NE, KC, SEA, CIN, MIN
*All were top 10 in turnover differential

It's almost as if ball security correlates to running and helps the defense by providing good field position.

The Steelers were middle of the pack allowing 6.8 yards per pass attempt... but in the accelerated game that is offense heavy the defense is put on the foeld more times to be exposed.

Steelers were 20th in TOP per drive on offense but 18th on defense. The defense was actually 13th best in both yards per drive and points per drive last year. They looked much worse overall because they faced more drives than every run heavy team I mentioned.

Again... Tomlin is going to air it out next year too. Don't worry. It's OK.

The point is based on the type of QB Roethlisberger is the run/play action offense that worked so well early in his career and the one run in SEA up until recently is the best bet. It incorporates low risk run plays punctuated by down field throws. Nothing about it is "dink and dunk."

The fact that Ben can convert 3 and longs regularly is just one more reason it is OK if the runs don't always work.

Everything is leaning towards a more run heavy offense to be successful: a much better OL, one of the best backfields in the NFL, Bryant is suspended, an inexperienced secondary etc.

Don't worry. Unlike the majority of the playoff teams the Steelers will eschew conventional logic. Bombs away!

[polamalubeast]

Here's the thing... the Steelers D was 4th in sacks and 3rd in turnovers this year... but still finished -2 in turnover margin.

All the teams I listed that ran the most had the fewest giveaways. High risk offenses put the defense in bad spots.

Just like it was shrugged off that Russell Wilson who had an MVP type year last year was given the ball inside the Steelers 40 3 times. As if the D wouldn't give up a minimum of 9 points.

Steelers were 24th in opponents average starting position (29 yard line). Again... run heavy teams were all in the top half while pass happy teams even with good QBs like Pitt, SD, Det saw their opponents start in better field position.

Top 5 teams in average start position: SEA, NE, KC, CIN, MIN
Top 5 teams in fewest giveaways: NE, KC, SEA, CIN, MIN
*All were top 10 in turnover differential

It's almost as if ball security correlates to running and helps the defense by providing good field position.

The Steelers were middle of the pack allowing 6.8 yards per pass attempt... but in the accelerated game that is offense heavy the defense is put on the foeld more times to be exposed.

Steelers were 20th in TOP per drive on offense but 18th on defense. The defense was actually 13th best in both yards per drive and points per drive last year. They looked much worse overall because they faced more drives than every run heavy team I mentioned.

Again... Tomlin is going to air it out next year too. Don't worry. It's OK.

The point is based on the type of QB Roethlisberger is the run/play action offense that worked so well early in his career and the one run in SEA up until recently is the best bet. It incorporates low risk run plays punctuated by down field throws. Nothing about it is "dink and dunk."

The fact that Ben can convert 3 and longs regularly is just one more reason it is OK if the runs don't always work.

Everything is leaning towards a more run heavy offense to be successful: a much better OL, one of the best backfields in the NFL, Bryant is suspended, an inexperienced secondary etc.

Don't worry. Unlike the majority of the playoff teams the Steelers will eschew conventional logic. Bombs away!


You want the Steelers plays the martyball?

The steelers have to be aggressive and when they are aggressive, they have very good chance of scoring 30 points or more and when you score 30 points or more you have of very good chances of winning.


As st33lersguy has said, the Steelers had averaged 46 pass per game in their best moment of their season and they were 5-1.

[LloydWoodson]

Ben was 2-2 last year when throwing 40+ times. (Approx 10-30 on his career).

That is the same record as when the Steelers went 2-2 in his absence playing ultra conservative with backups.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-worst-quarterbacks-over-40-passes-1420137165

You can say that QBs throw more when they are trailing and therefore likely lose those games... but I guess then that passing didn't put up a bunch of points huh? Like you can point and say "The Steelers ran 20 out of 26 plays against the Browns and go down 21-3"... then conveniently ignore that the Steelers overwhelmingly threw in the second half for a whopping 7 points.

The Steelers did not have the personnel for a run based offense until last year. Now they have the option of winning some games on the ground. I don't think there will be any advocates for Tomlin's inexplicable urge to run the ball 80% of the time in a half seemingly to prove a point.

[86WARD]

Exactly. Aikman makes my point for me 100%. Aikman was a game manager and a good one. He averaged 28 pass attempts per game on his career while winning 3 Super Bowls handing off to Emmitt.

Roethlisberger averaged 24 attempts per game in his first 2 seasons going to an AFC Championship and winning a Super Bowl.

In 2015 Roethlisberger as a vastly superior QB to his rookie self averaged 42 attempts per game and squeaked out a miracle Wild Card win over a Bengals team that hasn't won a playoff game in 25 years, was starting a backup QB with very little experience and still would not have won without the Hill fumble with 2 minutes left and bonehead penalties giving up 30 yards.

Still though. Nice to get a playoff win. The last win before that was the AFC Championship in 2011.

Shout out to Fitzpatrick and his 42 passer rating in Week 17 for even allowing the Steelers in the playoffs in the first place. It was like watching the Chiefs lose to the Chargers to determine our fate all over again.

Just squeaking by boys. Got the powerhouse O and a HOF QB and just squeaking in there to steal Wild Card wins.

I'm going to get attacked but facts are facts.

Your facts are fine, but they don't show the personnel around Ben. There are reasons those facts and figures change like that.

[LloydWoodson]

Your facts are fine, but they don't show the personnel around Ben. There are reasons those facts and figures change like that.

I think you are correct that it is personnel that allows the Steelers to play how they do. If you started Manziel at QB for the 2005 Steelers or 2014 Seahawks they would probably be a .500 team or better despite a crap QB based on their defense and minimizing the impact of the passing game with FWP/Bettis or Lynch.

Wilson could not run the Steelers offense and be effective. I think Brees is over the hill now too. Rivers is already in a pass happy offense with the most shotgun in the NFL and the Chargers have been irrelevant. Romo is old. Brady could run the Steelers O for 1 or 2 years at the most.

I think Rodgers is probably the only QB that could run the Steelers offense as well as Ben for the foreseeable future.

So the Steelers do have the luxury of playing an offensive game plan that others can't. And I see the logic behind challenging teams to keep up in the score. And there is an outside chance the Steelers could be champs again.

However... there is a lot to be said for a talented team with a philosophy that a scrub QB could look good within. If a team can go 9-7 with Manziel it can go 14-2 with an elite QB converting the inevitable 3rd and longs and calling the right OL assignments etc.

Ben can beat the Broncos on 50 throws... and he can also lose to a team with a horrendous performance like he did vs. the Chiefs and Bengals this past year. I don't think he will ever be as consistent as some of the other QBs who throw a lot. That is in large part because he gambles.

I like that Ben gambles. I hate that Alex Smith will throw a dump off when he needs 10 yards. It drives me nuts and I don't even care about the Chiefs haha.

The point is that Ben can still have the same 5-10 opportunities to throw deep regardless of whether the Steelers run more or use short passes more. It really boils down to situational football in game clock, field position, score, weather etc. in terms of how much the run should be leaned on.

I hope with a healthy Bell and OL that the Steelers make an effort to run more often. I'd like to see the Steelers in the top 5 in rushing or at least top 10. Those teams have done very well with some poor quarterbacks. Imagine that philosophy with a good one.

I guess when you pay a guy 100M you want to see some return though huh? Haha. "Wilson I don't care if you're not a pocket passer! We paid you 100M now get out there, throw 45 times and win the game! I'm paying you good money dammit!" Haha.

[st33lersguy]

It really is this simple. If you have the capacity to throw more often than not armed with an elite QB and some weapons, you shouldn't be faulted for not doing it, and when your defense is porous, airing it out can really help win games. If however, you have a weaker passer, but a tough defense and RB that can grind it out than do it. You have to play to your strengths. Don't advocate for one all the time and assume that one automatically leads to success and the other automatically holds back success when the other has proven very successful

[polamalubeast]

Ben was 2-2 last year when throwing 40+ times. (Approx 10-30 on his career).

That is the same record as when the Steelers went 2-2 in his absence playing ultra conservative with backups.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-worst-quarterbacks-over-40-passes-1420137165

You can say that QBs throw more when they are trailing and therefore likely lose those games... but I guess then that passing didn't put up a bunch of points huh? Like you can point and say "The Steelers ran 20 out of 26 plays against the Browns and go down 21-3"... then conveniently ignore that the Steelers overwhelmingly threw in the second half for a whopping 7 points.

The Steelers did not have the personnel for a run based offense until last year. Now they have the option of winning some games on the ground. I don't think there will be any advocates for Tomlin's inexplicable urge to run the ball 80% of the time in a half seemingly to prove a point.


And the Steelers were 4-2 when Roethlisberger attempted at least 39 pass last year......39 or 40 pass is not a big difference....


For the game against the Browns, it was too late because the Steelers were in a big hole.

[LloydWoodson]

^The problem is you don't know if the offense will show up. 17 ppg in the playoffs.

In the regular season the O put up 43 vs the 9ers then 12 the following week vs the Rams. Then it was 10 against the Bengals followed by 38 on the Raiders.

34 on the Broncos top defense then 17 against the 5-11 Ravens.

Someone mentioned the Saints as a pass happy offense that won the Super Bowl. The Saints scored at least 20 in 16/18 games Brees started. In the playoffs they put up 45, 31 and 31 not 16 and 18.

If the Steelers had the 2006 Saints consistency the offensive focus on the pass would be a lot more viable.

- - - Updated - - -


And the Steelers were 4-2 when Roethlisberger attempted at least 39 pass last year......39 or 40 pass is not a big difference....


For the game against the Browns, it was too late because the Steelers were in a big hole.

The fact that Roethlisberger can win with this philosophy is a credit to Roethlsberger and the players around him and not the philosophy itself.

[polamalubeast]

^The problem is you don't know if the offense will show up. 17 ppg in the playoffs.

In the regular season the O put up 43 vs the 9ers then 12 the following week vs the Rams. Then it was 10 against the Bengals followed by 38 on the Raiders.

34 on the Broncos top defense then 17 against the 5-11 Ravens.

Someone mentioned the Saints as a pass happy offense that won the Super Bowl. The Saints scored at least 20 in 16/18 games Brees started. In the playoffs they put up 45, 31 and 31 not 16 and 18.

If the Steelers had the 2006 Saints consistency the offensive focus on the pass would be a lot more viable.

- - - Updated - - -



The fact that Roethlisberger can win with this philosophy is a credit to Roethlsberger and the players around him and not the philosophy itself.



They were atrocious on 3rd down in the playoffs, it's nothing to do with the mindset.

For games against the Rams, Roethlisberger was injured in the middle of the game ..... for the game against the Bengals, it is proved that Roethlisberger is always bad when it's his first game after a long absence due to injury.


But the Steelers scored 30 points or more in 7 of 12 games with Roethlisberger in the regular season.Not bad.

- - - Updated - - -


The fact that Roethlisberger can win with this philosophy is a credit to Roethlsberger and the players around him and not the philosophy itself


This team is built to pass the ball and be aggressive.They are not built to be patient with the run game.

[st33lersguy]

^The problem is you don't know if the offense will show up. 17 ppg in the playoffs.

I think playing two tough defenses on the road while playing a 3rd and 4th string RB and being saddled with Landry Jones for one quarter of one game and not having AB in the game against the defense that held the league's no. 1 scoring offense to 10 points had something to do with that

[LloydWoodson]

What good is having a high powered offense if every time you play a great defense you put up 20 or fewer points?

There are only good defenses in the playoffs. There is no dropping 38 on the Raiders in the playoffs.

The last 3 playoff games the Steelers have scored under 20 points. Those are the only 3 playoff games the Steelers have had with Ben where they put up less than 20. Don't believe the hype because the 2010 Ravens defense with Lewis, Reed, Ngata and Suggs was better than the Broncos D.

Why did the Steelers lose 17-20 to the Ravens in Week 16? Which excuse fits best there for 17 points in a must win game. By all rights the Jets should have been in the playoffs but Fitzpatrick absolutely choked their final game away.

[LloydWoodson]

The only Steelers integral to the run game are Bell and Decastro. Decastro is a monster in the run game.

Whereas now Bryant is out again so the passing game will suffer. If Ben gets hurt again the passing game will suffer. If Bell, Brown, Wheaton, Green get hurt the passing game will suffer. If the tackles get hurt the passing game will suffer and probably the interior linemen as well.

Yeah obviously a lot of factors can now adversely affect the Steelers offense.

*I agree Ben plays poorly after injuries but I am also told he plays well hurt. I agree with you beast.

[polamalubeast]

What good is having a high powered offense if every time you play a great defense you put up 20 or fewer points?

There are only good defenses in the playoffs. There is no dropping 38 on the Raiders in the playoffs.

The last 3 playoff games the Steelers have scored under 20 points. Those are the only 3 playoff games the Steelers have had with Ben where they put up less than 20. Don't believe the hype because the 2010 Ravens defense with Lewis, Reed, Ngata and Suggs was better than the Broncos D.

Why did the Steelers lose 17-20 to the Ravens in Week 16? Which excuse fits best there for 17 points in a must win game. By all rights the Jets should have been in the playoffs but Fitzpatrick absolutely choked their final game away.


One of his games, Bell was OUT and he had no one to replace him.He was our best runner and also our 2nd best receiver.Another of his games was without Antonio Brown, but yet the Steelers offense has done better than the Patriots and Panthers against this Broncos defense.The other game, Landry Jones has played during almost all the 4th quarter ....


The games where the Steelers have scored just 17 points against the Ravens, it was a bad game, but bad game it happens and but the Steelers played many crucial game in the 2nd half of the season and the Steelers have scored 28 or more points in seven of its games and three of its games were against three very good defense, against Seattle, Denver and Bengals.