Cowher on Ben: 'This kid has a lot of upside'

[polamalubeast]

Looks like Bill Cowher was spot on when talking about Ben Roethlisberger in 2004.


April 24, 2004
Steelers select Ben Roethlisberger in the first round of the NFL Draft

Ben Roethlisberger – First Round – 2004 – Miami University of Ohio

Twelve years ago the Steelers selected quarterback Ben Roethlisberger with their number one pick in the NFL Draft, the 11th pick overall.

Roethlisberger came in with limited experience at the quarterback position, playing the position just one year in high school and leaving Miami of Ohio after his junior year. But as history has shown, it was a pick that has paid dividends, with Roethlisberger leading the Steelers to two Super Bowl titles while breaking countless records along the way.

But it all started during the NFL Draft, and here is a look back at what Roethlisberger had to say immediately after being drafted by the Steelers, and what then Coach Bill Cowher said about him.



....

Coach Bill Cowher on Roethlisberger on draft day:

On what he likes about the way Roethlisberger plays:
“When you look at him athletically, a lot of people have talked about athletically he may have a lot better attributes than some of the other two picked in front of him, but I think certainly the experience factor, certainly the questions of where he played.

“I think this kid has a lot of upside. Again, the thing he lacks is experience. I think he's only going to get better the more he plays.”

On what sold the team on selecting Roethlisberger:
“The more you studied him, just when you watched him, the more information you gathered on him, I think you looked at those three quarterbacks, and they clearly separated themselves I think from the rest of the group. So it was just putting them in order.

“The more you watch the guy, his arm strength, his mobility, his accuracy on the run, on the move. I think you look at our situation, it was an ideal situation for him to come into.”

On if he will sit, or start right away:
“We'll wait and see what happens. There's no pre-conceived thoughts. With four quarterbacks, this is a good situation to be in because of the veterans we have in front of him, because of the veterans we have on our offensive football team.

“If there is a situation for a young quarterback to not come in and feel the pressures of having to turn a football team around, we think this is one of those situations that exists.”



read more


http://www.steelers.com/news/draft/article-1/Cowher-on-Ben-This-kid-has-a-lot-of-upside/c54420a0-263e-4912-8f0b-8cfd9d092280?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[pczach]

Ya think Bill?

I'm glad they made you draft him.

:brick:

[Dwinsgames]

why do so many credit / discredit the coach based on draft picks ?

The Head Coach is one of the last people in the organization to get involved in the draft process because that process starts long before the regular season ends and in most organizations the GM has final say on the draft picks as it is he and his staff of scouts that do the preparation for the draft and it is his ass on the line when as an organization they fail to draft well

[fansince'76]

Ya think Bill?

I'm glad they made you draft him.

:brick:

:lol:

[Dwinsgames]

(http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers)NFL Nation reporters break down which person -- coach, front-office executive or owner -- has ultimate authority in the draft room of every team.

Pittsburgh Steelers (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers): General manager Kevin Colbert gets the call. He has helped direct traffic in the Steelers' war room during the Bill Cowher and Mike Tomlin regimes. But Tomlin and Colbert really do make these calls together. Colbert's not going to undercut Tomlin on a pick. Tomlin describes the working relationship as an "old married couple." Since Colbert runs the draft operation, he gets the spotlight. For example, Tomlin handles media duties during the season, and Colbert assumes that role from January to April. Either way, there will be no surprises between these two on April 28. -- Jeremy Fowler

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/story/_/page/32for32x160417/nfl-draft-2016-ultimate-decision-maker-all-32-teams-general-manager-coach-both

[pczach]

why do so many credit / discredit the coach based on draft picks ?

The Head Coach is one of the last people in the organization to get involved in the draft process because that process starts long before the regular season ends and in most organizations the GM has final say on the draft picks as it is he and his staff of scouts that do the preparation for the draft and it is his ass on the line when as an organization they fail to draft well


Because Cowher never had a good quarterback the whole time he was here until Big Ben. Cowher never seemed to want a quarterback high in the draft. He let Drew Brees pass by without drafting him because he always fought for other needs on the team. You just read Cowher's own comments in the first post of this thread. The Steelers needed a quarterback. Cowher himself said that the top three quarterbacks had separated themselves as far and away the top talent at their positions. Knowing that, Cowher still didn't want to take Roethlisberger. He wanted to draft an offensive lineman knowing everything you read in the first post. Thankfully, he was overruled and the team drafted Ben.

What else needs to be explained? This wasn't a one-time occurrence with Cowher. This was his MO.

One of the reasons they didn't draft more quarterbacks is because they went with Cowher's opinions often and went with other team needs first.

[Dwinsgames]

Because Cowher never had a good quarterback the whole time he was here until Big Ben. Cowher never seemed to want a quarterback high in the draft. He let Drew Brees pass by without drafting him because he always fought for other needs on the team. You just read Cowher's own comments in the first post of this thread. The Steelers needed a quarterback. Cowher himself said that the top three quarterbacks had separated themselves as far and away the top talent at their positions. Knowing that, Cowher still didn't want to take Roethlisberger. He wanted to draft an offensive lineman knowing everything you read in the first post. Thankfully, he was overruled and the team drafted Ben.

What else needs to be explained? This wasn't a one-time occurrence with Cowher. This was his MO.

One of the reasons they didn't draft more quarterbacks is because they went with Cowher's opinions often and went with other team needs first.


again the whole debate is being built on the premise that he had final say , when he clearly did not

[Mojouw]

Doesn't matter who had the final say. It speaks volumes that in face of team needs and draft position Cowher banged the table for the OL over the QB. He was wrong and it would've been a terrible decision.

[Dwinsgames]

Doesn't matter who had the final say. It speaks volumes that in face of team needs and draft position Cowher banged the table for the OL over the QB. He was wrong and it would've been a terrible decision.


it does matter when he is the one taking the brunt of the blame for these things years after the fact when clearly the man in charge then is still in charge now and is credited to being one of the best in the business ... can't have it both ways

[zulater]

Just as I wont ever jump onto the "Tomlin won with Cowher's guys" pov I also wont seek to disavow Cowher of any credit in Ben's drafting and development. Maybe Bill needed to be coerced a little at first to draft him, but he sure jumped on board with both feet once the slip went up to the stage. And yes I know Maddox started the first two games, and save him getting injured Ben would have had to wait at least a couple more weeks before getting the nod. But I think Cowher knew pretty early Ben was going to be really good. It was just back then you didn't start a roookie qb game 1 unless circumstances absolutely demanded it. Regardless the 04 and 05 season were both pretty incredible. So once he had him he sure as hell did good with him!

[pczach]

Doesn't matter who had the final say. It speaks volumes that in face of team needs and draft position Cowher banged the table for the OL over the QB. He was wrong and it would've been a terrible decision.


Exactly!

Thank you.

It doesn't matter that Colbert had the final say. Cowher was known to have a ton to say about who the team drafted, and often got the players he wanted. That's a large part of why they didn't go after many quarterbacks while Cowher was head coach.....Because Cowher had so much influence on who the team drafted. He had to be overruled on that particular draft pick because he wanted to pass on one of the top quarterbacks in the draft when his team didn't have a big-time quarterback. It's that simple.

[Mojouw]

it does matter when he is the one taking the brunt of the blame for these things years after the fact when clearly the man in charge then is still in charge now and is credited to being one of the best in the business ... can't have it both ways
But Colbert wanted and got his Qb. Cowher had more pull on draft day than Tomlin. Google "Alonzo Jackson". Cowher overruled everyone to draft him. Cowher didn't want to takje a Qb, why does everyone have a hard time believing that? What in his coaching career makes anyone think he was going to change from a defense and power running guy? That means pass rushers, run blockers, and running backs over all otherneeds. It was consistently his viewpoint for his entire career

[pczach]

it does matter when he is the one taking the brunt of the blame for these things years after the fact when clearly the man in charge then is still in charge now and is credited to being one of the best in the business ... can't have it both ways


Nobody is saying that Cowher was a bad coach. He was a great coach. In fact, he was fantastic at identifying talent and drafting and developing players.

And for the record, that's why Colbert is one of the best in the business. They both were great at what they do. Who is saying otherwise?

The Steelers have been pretty good since Cowher left, have they not?

When it came to quarterbacks however, he fell short. He believed in strengthening the roster at all the positions and loved depth rather than going in on quarterbacks. The quarterback position was Cowher's kryptonite.....always was.

I love Cowher, but the facts are the facts. If not for making him take Ben, he would still be looking for his first Super Bowl ring.

[Dwinsgames]

But Colbert wanted and got his Qb. Cowher had more pull on draft day than Tomlin. Google "Alonzo Jackson". Cowher overruled everyone to draft him. Cowher didn't want to takje a Qb, why does everyone have a hard time believing that? What in his coaching career makes anyone think he was going to change from a defense and power running guy? That means pass rushers, run blockers, and running backs over all otherneeds. It was consistently his viewpoint for his entire career


surely you meant Rooney wanted and got his QB because that is what is clearly stated in his book ( fansince has pointed it out numerous times ) it wasn't Colbert who pulled rank it was Rooney .

But people want to blame Cowher and credit Colbert at every turn ... quite frankly its bullshit

[fansince'76]

And yes I know Maddox started the first two games, and save him getting injured Ben would have had to wait at least a couple more years before getting the nod.

Fixed.

[pczach]

Just as I wont ever jump onto the "Tomlin won with Cowher's guys" pov I also wont seek to disavow Cowher of any credit in Ben's drafting and development. Maybe Bill needed to be coerced a little at first to draft him, but he sure jumped on board with both feet once the slip went up to the stage. And yes I know Maddox started the first two games, and save him getting injured Ben would have had to wait at least a couple more weeks before getting the nod. But I think Cowher knew pretty early Ben was going to be really good. It was just back then you didn't start a roookie qb game 1 unless circumstances absolutely demanded it. Regardless the 04 and 05 season were both pretty incredible. So once he had him he sure as hell did good with him!


Once Cowher got a chance to coach a player like Big Ben, it's as if he had a revelation and realized that there were things he could do with a more talented player under center. If the injury to Maddox didn't happen, who knows how things would have turned out, but once he saw his talent on the field and the things he could do, it was obvious that he had found what he wasn't looking for. :tongue1:

[pczach]

surely you meant Rooney wanted and got his QB because that is what is clearly stated in his book ( fansince has pointed it out numerous times ) it wasn't Colbert who pulled rank it was Rooney .

But people want to blame Cowher and credit Colbert at every turn ... quite frankly its bullshit


You seem to be missing the point. Cowher had more power than Tomlin does now. Cowher had his say most of the time and seemed to have as much power as the GM. The GM and many in the scouting department wanted Big Ben. Cowher wanted someone else. Rooney stepped in and did what he knew the team needed, because Colbert disagreed and didn't have the power to overrule Cowher at the time.

That is how things went down. Because Cowher had an equal role in player selection with the GM, the owner had to step in and make that decision for him and save him from himself. Colbert didn't pull rank because he didn't have that rank yet. Mr. Rooney was the tiebreaker.

You know the story, so why are you questioning what happened?

[polamalubeast]

You seem to be missing the point. Cowher had more power than Tomlin does now. Cowher had his say most of the time and seemed to have as much power as the GM. The GM and many in the scouting department wanted Big Ben. Cowher wanted someone else. Rooney stepped in and did what he knew the team needed, because Colbert disagreed and didn't have the power to overrule Cowher at the time.

That is how things went down. Because Cowher had an equal role in player selection with the GM, the owner had to step in and make that decision for him and save him from himself. Colbert didn't pull rank because he didn't have that rank yet. Mr. Rooney was the tiebreaker.

You know the story, so why are you questioning what happened?


If this is the case, Cowher deserves the credit for the draft pick of Polamalu in 2003.....

[Mojouw]

surely you meant Rooney wanted and got his QB because that is what is clearly stated in his book ( fansince has pointed it out numerous times ) it wasn't Colbert who pulled rank it was Rooney .

But people want to blame Cowher and credit Colbert at every turn ... quite frankly its bullshit

Where am I "blaming" him for anything? Here is what I am saying based on the "facts" (and who really knows what went down? Certainly not us fans.) as I have read them:
1. Cowher wanted the one Andrews brother to shore up the tackle position. Makes total sense. Would've been a massive road grader to run behind. To my mind, this fits Cowher's mindset.
2. Colbert wanted the QB. Argued that the Steelers would hopefully never be in a position to get that highly rated of a prospect at the position in a long time.
3. Other coaches and front office folks weighed in - the room was pretty well divided.
4. Rooney said they should draft the QB. Dispute and argument ended and the Steelers went forward as an organization united behind the selection of a QB at #11.

How is any of what I am saying "bad"? As others have pointed out on this thread, Cowher coached Ben well once he got on the field. Three men were involved in making decisions on that day - Cowher, Colbert, and Rooney. They had different opinions. Shocking!

I'll end with this - Cowher was wrong with prioritizing the OT over the QB. In the same draft Colbert was wrong about the small school corner in the 2nd round. Now everyone gets some blame.

[Dwinsgames]

If this is the case, Cowher deserves the credit for the draft pick of Polamalu in 2003.....


Can't do that cause then Colbert doesn't look like a genius and his credibility slides and is not the top GM in the league ..

that is my issue , we can not blame the coach when things go wrong and credit the GM when they go right ..

it simply doesn't work that way or at least shouldn't .

if you are going to assign credit to the GM you have to assign blame to him as well ( or to the coach or executive vice president or whomever is making the calls )

its an organizational win or failure blame pie ( and credit pie ) can go a long ways

[pczach]

If this is the case, Cowher deserves the credit for the draft pick of Polamalu in 2003.....


Sure, that's fine. Cowher deserves a lot of credit for building the entire roster.

I think the entire team was on board with the Polamalu pick. I could be wrong, but I don't remember any disagreement with that pick.

I believe they even changed Colbert's title after Cowher was gone, and gave him more power.

[Mojouw]

If this is the case, Cowher deserves the credit for the draft pick of Polamalu in 2003.....

Okay. Done. Why does arguing that a HOF coach held one bad opinion in his career and that it didn't even harm the team always turn in to a "why are people trying to blame/diminish Cowher?"

And to deny that Cowher had more power than Tomlin does on draft day is a non-starter of an argument. Cowher never had more power than his GM (Colbert) but he had equal authority after Donahoe was forced out following the 1999 season.

[pczach]

Okay. Done. Why does arguing that a HOF coach held one bad opinion in his career and that it didn't even harm the team always turn in to a "why are people trying to blame/diminish Cowher?"

And to deny that Cowher had more power than Tomlin does on draft day is a non-starter of an argument. Cowher never had more power than his GM (Colbert) but he had equal authority after Donahoe was forced out following the 1999 season.


Why is this so hard to understand?

[pczach]

Please read: http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/08/steelers-name-kevin-colbert-general-manager/


Colbert wasn't the GM. He was Director of Football Operations. There's a difference.

[Psycho Ward 86]

But Colbert wanted and got his Qb. Cowher had more pull on draft day than Tomlin. Google "Alonzo Jackson". Cowher overruled everyone to draft him. Cowher didn't want to takje a Qb, why does everyone have a hard time believing that? What in his coaching career makes anyone think he was going to change from a defense and power running guy? That means pass rushers, run blockers, and running backs over all otherneeds. It was consistently his viewpoint for his entire career

at least we can look back now and rest easy knowing that the best qb out of that draft wasnt even drafted. and that qb was....


tony romo.

imagine where we would be today if we had him lol

[Dwinsgames]

Please read: http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/08/steelers-name-kevin-colbert-general-manager/


Colbert wasn't the GM. He was Director of Football Operations. There's a difference.

the title changed but the duties and responsibilities where the same

[Count Steeler]

Cowher did not manage Ben well, especially in the playoffs. In 2005 SB, Ben did not play well because Cowher made him a nervous wreck.

Cowher was a good coach, but when it came to the QB position, he did not do well. ODONELL, Maddox, Stewart,

[polamalubeast]

Cowher did not manage Ben well, especially in the playoffs. In 2005 SB, Ben did not play well because Cowher made him a nervous wreck.

Cowher was a good coach, but when it came to the QB position, he did not do well. ODONELL, Maddox, Stewart,

Ben was 27-4 including the playoffs in 2004 and 2005.

Roethlisberger had a great QB rating and YPA in his two years....His two seasons were two of my favorite.

[pczach]

the title changed but the duties and responsibilities where the same


It tells you right in the article that it is considered a promotion. Not just a raise in pay......A promotion. He got more responsibility and more power. The two go hand in hand.

If you can't see something that obvious, I don't know what else to say to you.

[zulater]

Cowher did not manage Ben well, especially in the playoffs. In 2005 SB, Ben did not play well because Cowher made him a nervous wreck.

Cowher was a good coach, but when it came to the QB position, he did not do well. ODONELL, Maddox, Stewart,

Ben tore it up in the 05 AFC playoffs! He was great, and even though he didn't attempt a great number of passes in any of those games, they used the passing game to take control of the game in the first half.

Ben's stats in SB 40 are somewhat misleading imo. If you take away two plays his numbers are pretty middle of the road. One of course would be the interception that prevented the Steelers from putting the game away early. Ben tried to over finesse a ball and as a result didn't get enough air under his pass. 9 out of 10 times he makes that pass and instead of an interception that kept the game close he throws a td pass and the Steelers go up 28-3 and no one ever brings up the refs. The other play was when Hines dropped what should have been a 30 something yard td pass while wide open in the end zone. The ball was there. Hines just dropped it. Change thise two plays and Ben's qb rating is in the high 80's or low 90's. As it was he had some important 3rd down conversations late in the game that closed the door on the Squawks. All in all Ben had a nice playoff run in 05.

[Dwinsgames]

It tells you right in the article that it is considered a promotion. Not just a raise in pay......A promotion. He got more responsibility and more power. The two go hand in hand.

If you can't see something that obvious, I don't know what else to say to you.

sorry but that is NOT what I read at all ...


"The Steelers have not explained the title change for Colbert, who has been the team\’s director of football operations since 2000, but it is believed to be a promotion."the red the author surmises and it is not fact based , the first part of the sentence is what he knows to be true the rest is a guess on his part nothing more nothing less .

I could easily get snippy about the comment in bold from your quoted statement but I won't stoop to that level in the interest of keeping this debate friendly and not resorting to insults but might might suggest brushing up on reading comprehension before calling anyone out in the future

surmises :
verb (used with object), surmised, surmising. 1. to think or infer without certain or strong evidence; conjecture; guess.

verb (used without object), surmised, surmising. 2. to conjecture or guess.

[pczach]

sorry but that is NOT what I read at all ...


"The Steelers have not explained the title change for Colbert, who has been the team\’s director of football operations since 2000, but it is believed to be a promotion."the red the author surmises and it is not fact based , the first part of the sentence is what he knows to be true the rest is a guess on his part nothing more nothing less .

I could easily get snippy about the comment in bold from your quoted statement but I won't stoop to that level in the interest of keeping this debate friendly and not resorting to insults but might might suggest brushing up on reading comprehension before calling anyone out in the future

surmises :
verb (used with object), surmised, surmising. 1. to think or infer without certain or strong evidence; conjecture; guess.

verb (used without object), surmised, surmising. 2. to conjecture or guess.


You're kidding, right?

I explain something to you and link an article, then I make the statement "If you can't see something that obvious, I don't know what else to say to you."

Then you say how you could get snippy with me over that? And then acting like you're bigger than me by not resorting to insults.....then make a comment about my reading comprehension. Really classy of you.

It's a good thing you wanted to keep it friendly. :rolleyes:

I guess you aren't used to people not agreeing with you, huh? For crying out loud man.

[Dwinsgames]

You're kidding, right?

I explain something to you and link an article, then I make the statement "If you can't see something that obvious, I don't know what else to say to you."

Then you say how you could get snippy with me over that? And then acting like you're bigger than me by not resorting to insults.....then make a comment about my reading comprehension. Really classy of you.

It's a good thing you wanted to keep it friendly. :rolleyes:

I guess you aren't used to people not agreeing with you, huh? For crying out loud man.


look man you linked an article where the writer is guessing and shows no proof to back it up then want to pass it on to me as fact and then tell me

{
http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by pczach http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php?p=547552#post547552)
It tells you right in the article that it is considered a promotion. Not just a raise in pay......A promotion. He got more responsibility and more power. The two go hand in hand.

If you can't see something that obvious, I don't know what else to say to you.}

and I am the one that is wrong ...

ok whatever dude

[pczach]

sorry but that is NOT what I read at all ...


"The Steelers have not explained the title change for Colbert, who has been the team\’s director of football operations since 2000, but it is believed to be a promotion."the red the author surmises and it is not fact based , the first part of the sentence is what he knows to be true the rest is a guess on his part nothing more nothing less .

I could easily get snippy about the comment in bold from your quoted statement but I won't stoop to that level in the interest of keeping this debate friendly and not resorting to insults but might might suggest brushing up on reading comprehension before calling anyone out in the future

surmises :
verb (used with object), surmised, surmising. 1. to think or infer without certain or strong evidence; conjecture; guess.

verb (used without object), surmised, surmising. 2. to conjecture or guess.


I just linked the first story I came to. I figured that would be enough to show everyone reading what I was talking about.

How's this one: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl-news/196949-pittsburgh-steelers-promote-kevin-colbert-to-their-first-gm-position

Here's a link to a Steelers Universe thread. Maybe you've read it. http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-9455.html

Read it and come to your own conclusions. They call it a promotion in the Sporting News. No guessing about it. That is, if you consider them to be a credible source.

[Mojouw]

From 1991-1998 or so, Donahuoe was unquestionably in charge and held the reins during draft day. His title was "Director of Football Operations". Then in the 1998-1999 period of time, Cowher started pushing for more power and control over the player personnel side of things. This fits with league-wide trends during the late 90's and early 2000's. Coaches with a track record were being handed the GM duties as well - thanks Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells! Even coaches with no track record were demanding that responsibility during the hiring process. Cowher clashed with Donahoe over this role and the Steelers gave Cowher the ball after the 1999 season.

They then bring in Colbert as "director of football operations" from 2000-2010. While, the Steelers never really make these things clear (I figure they wouldn't even have acknowledged that Omar Khan existed if they weren't forced to) - it is generally felt that Colbert's main role was to run player personnel during the season when Cowher would be focused on the season. During the off-season cycle, Colbert and Cowher would share power - with an unquantified favor toward Cowher.

Then in 2007 Tomlin is brought in. No change in title for Colbert. The 2007 draft happens - fairly good. It is clear that Tomlin put a stamp on that draft with the double dip at LB with Timmons and Woodley. Then the "uneven" (at best) to "utter horror show" of 2008-2009 goes down. Shockingly, Colbert gets quietly re-titled prior to the 2010 season. IN fact, if my memory serves, this change does not immediately even come to light. In fact, I believe it went largely unnoticed for some time. Maybe not, I can not really remember, but here it is in black and white:

From - http://prod.static.steelers.clubs.nfl.com/assets/docs/2012_MG_2.pdf (page 21/30)

"Colbert, 55, oversees the personnel area of the team and supervises the scouting staff. Among his duties, he is in charge of administering player acquisitions and transactions, including the NFL Draft, free agent signings and trades, and evaluating pro and college personnel. He also serves as the Steelers’ liaison with the NFL office and the other NFL teams on football matters."

In 2011 - same exact text - http://prod.static.steelers.clubs.nfl.com/assets/docs/2011-Pittsburgh-Steelers-Media-Guide.pdf (page 43)

Unfortunately, I can not find the 2010 or 2009 media guides to see if the wording for Colbert changes. I can find that this is basically how the Steelers do announce promotions for most non player and coach personnel.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2011/08/29/Steelers-Notebook-Colbert-quietly-team-s-1st-GM/stories/201108290216

So it does remain unclear as to what exactly has or has not changed with respect of how the draft process is managed. But I still remain convinced that the Steelers did not quietly re-title/promote Colbert just because it sounded good. Every time the Rooneys do something, it is for a reason. I believe, but can not prove that the reason is they determined that Colbert was in charge of the draft and the coaches were going to be involved and it would be a collaboration, but Colbert gets to break ties and make the final calls. I also believe this started in the 2010 draft and not before.

[pczach]

From 1991-1998 or so, Donahuoe was unquestionably in charge and held the reins during draft day. His title was "Director of Football Operations". Then in the 1998-1999 period of time, Cowher started pushing for more power and control over the player personnel side of things. This fits with league-wide trends during the late 90's and early 2000's. Coaches with a track record were being handed the GM duties as well - thanks Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells! Even coaches with no track record were demanding that responsibility during the hiring process. Cowher clashed with Donahoe over this role and the Steelers gave Cowher the ball after the 1999 season.

They then bring in Colbert as "director of football operations" from 2000-2010. While, the Steelers never really make these things clear (I figure they wouldn't even have acknowledged that Omar Khan existed if they weren't forced to) - it is generally felt that Colbert's main role was to run player personnel during the season when Cowher would be focused on the season. During the off-season cycle, Colbert and Cowher would share power - with an unquantified favor toward Cowher.

Then in 2007 Tomlin is brought in. No change in title for Colbert. The 2007 draft happens - fairly good. It is clear that Tomlin put a stamp on that draft with the double dip at LB with Timmons and Woodley. Then the "uneven" (at best) to "utter horror show" of 2008-2009 goes down. Shockingly, Colbert gets quietly re-titled prior to the 2010 season. IN fact, if my memory serves, this change does not immediately even come to light. In fact, I believe it went largely unnoticed for some time. Maybe not, I can not really remember, but here it is in black and white:

From - http://prod.static.steelers.clubs.nfl.com/assets/docs/2012_MG_2.pdf (page 21/30)

"Colbert, 55, oversees the personnel area of the team and supervises the scouting staff. Among his duties, he is in charge of administering player acquisitions and transactions, including the NFL Draft, free agent signings and trades, and evaluating pro and college personnel. He also serves as the Steelers’ liaison with the NFL office and the other NFL teams on football matters."

In 2011 - same exact text - http://prod.static.steelers.clubs.nfl.com/assets/docs/2011-Pittsburgh-Steelers-Media-Guide.pdf (page 43)

Unfortunately, I can not find the 2010 or 2009 media guides to see if the wording for Colbert changes. I can find that this is basically how the Steelers do announce promotions for most non player and coach personnel.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2011/08/29/Steelers-Notebook-Colbert-quietly-team-s-1st-GM/stories/201108290216

So it does remain unclear as to what exactly has or has not changed with respect of how the draft process is managed. But I still remain convinced that the Steelers did not quietly re-title/promote Colbert just because it sounded good. Every time the Rooneys do something, it is for a reason. I believe, but can not prove that the reason is they determined that Colbert was in charge of the draft and the coaches were going to be involved and it would be a collaboration, but Colbert gets to break ties and make the final calls. I also believe this started in the 2010 draft and not before.


Fans seem to mysteriously forget that Cowher was in a power struggle with Donahoe because he wanted more power. That struggle was known and reported about. Cowher won the power struggle and the Steelers moved on from Donahoe and hired Kevin Colbert. You explain the rest very well.

The Steelers didn't come out and say anything directly because that's no how they do things. But when it's all laid out in front of you, you can read between the lines and see how things really happened.

[polamalubeast]

Good thing that Cowher won the power struggle vs Donahoe.....The Draft was great after the firing of Donahoe.


And Donahoe was not very good in Buffalo....

[Mojouw]

Good thing that Cowher won the power struggle vs Donahoe.....The Draft was great after the firing of Donahoe.


And Donahoe was not very good in Buffalo....

True. I was by no means arguing the benefits or non-benefits of any given outcome. I was simply trying to lay out my own logic and where my opinions were coming from.

Bottom line it is almost impossible to determine where the credit and blame (basically they are the same thing - two sides of a coin) lies for the draft process. Many fans and analysts were highly concerned when Donahoe left. Did not have the dire consequences that many reasonable folks were afraid of.

Since about the early 1990's the Steelers have been one of the more effective teams in the draft process. It would be interesting to read an "insider's" take on how the organization operated during the period of say 1995-2010.

[Butch]

FWIW
I remember hearing all the time how Chuck had to be convinced not to draft Stallworth before he drafted both Swann and Lambert. I also heard that it took so long to convince him to draft Swann 1st that we almost lost him to the cowboys. Now that being said maybe things were different back then, or maybe Chuck had more pull the Bill??? IDK did things change that drastically that coach's don't get the say so now?

[zulater]

FWIW
I remember hearing all the time how Chuck had to be convinced not to draft Stallworth before he drafted both Swann and Lambert. I also heard that it took so long to convince him to draft Swann 1st that we almost lost him to the cowboys. Now that being said maybe things were different back then, or maybe Chuck had more pull the Bill??? IDK did things change that drastically that coach's don't get the say so now?

Noll also wanted to draft Robert Newhouse rather than Franco Harris. Having read a couple books on it, what I could gather is that Haley, Nunley, and Art Rooney Jr would put together their draft board and then they would proceed to sell their board to Noll and Dan Rooney. I'm not sure if Noll or Dan had final say? What I gathered though was that if Noll was dead set against someone that name would be tossed out. Also Noll and Dan went into it with an open enough mind that if the scouting department was really selling them on someone they could be swayed. Thus Noll was talked out of drafting Stallworth before the 4th round, he was talked into Lambert ( can't remember who, but Noll liked a different lb over Lambert) and of course he was talked out of Robert Newhouse.

[teegre]

Fire Noll!!!
Fire Cowher!!!
Fire Tomlin!!!

[zulater]

Coach Chuck Noll, disappointed that the cornerback he wanted, Willie Buchanon, had already been selected, wanted to pick Robert Newhouse, the little fullback from the University of Houston.

''Little guys, like Mike Garrett and Dickie Post, might have one great year,'' Art Rooney Jr., the Steelers' scouting director, told Noll. ''But you never see a little guy put two great years back to back. The big guys do. The big guys have longer and more consistent careers than the little guys.''

''All right,'' Noll said, going along with Rooney's choice of the 6-foot-2-inch, 225-pound back from Penn State. ''But you better be right.'' Glory Years Gone

http://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/18/sports/new-offense-same-harris.html

It looks to me that the Steelers have a longstanding process that involves the coach the owner and the "scouting director/ personnel director that works. So instead of taking potshots at Cowher or Tomlin, or Noll before them do as the Steelers and use your brains and understand they all deserve credit for the good and they all deserve a share of the blame for the bad. Fact is for about 50 years there's been a helluva lot more good than bad. And Noll, Cowher, and Tomlin all deserve a great deal of credit of that. As do Art Rooney Jr, Bill Haley, Bill Nunn Jr, Tom Donohoe, and Kevin Colbert.

So what are you guys arguing about again? :coffee: