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polamalubeast
04-20-2016, 09:54 AM
"When Cleveland passed on me, technically my hometown team, that was it. I couldn't wait to have a team and play the Browns at some point."

-- Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who is 20-2 in his career against Cleveland.


The most decorated quarterback jersey in Cleveland contains 24 names. The list could have stopped at six: Couch, Detmer, Wynn, Pederson, Holcomb, Roethlisberger.

The Browns should be drafting a playmaking safety or wide receiver for a playoff-caliber team instead of potentially the franchise's 25th starting quarterback since 1999. This reality made one longtime NFL coach nearly spill his craft beer just thinking about it at the NFL combine. He was with the Browns 12 years ago. He knew what happened in that draft room in Berea, Ohio, with the Browns on the clock with the No. 6 pick in the 2004 draft.

"He was right there," the NFL coach said. "Once Sean Taylor was off the board, everything got crazy. Ben was discussed."

Before Roethlisberger began to terrorize the Browns twice a year for more than a decade, he was a lanky kid from Findlay, Ohio, who would have gladly played for Cleveland. Why is the Browns' universe too cruel to let this happen? In talks with people involved with the process from all angles, ESPN examines the mechanics of how Roethlisberger never did put on the orange and brown, how the Steelers stumbled into a gem and what it says about the draft process



read more


http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/story/_/id/15232563/the-day-browns-passed-big-ben

st33lersguy
04-20-2016, 11:29 AM
Oops! lol

Born2Steel
04-20-2016, 11:42 AM
Should be a national holiday.

Dwinsgames
04-20-2016, 12:13 PM
let the myth be debunked that Bill Cowher was against drafting Ben .....

Colbert: "Coach [Bill] Cowher unselfishly made the statement that, for the sake of the organization, if a quarterback is available, we should give it serious thought. Was that the most immediate need? No, because we didn't plan on Ben playing his rookie year. ... Tommy [Maddox] gets hurt in the first game, the rest was history."

pczach
04-20-2016, 12:20 PM
I will forever be grateful for their incompetence!

:flipoff:

polamalubeast
04-20-2016, 12:25 PM
We will never know if Cowher was interested to have Roethlisberger with the 11th pick.

The rumors is than the first choice of Cowher was Rivers, but when Rivers was no longer available,the choice of Cowher was Shawn Andrews, but I have no idea if this story is true.

teegre
04-20-2016, 12:33 PM
We will never know if Cowher was interested to have Roethlisberger with the 11th pick.

The rumors is than the first choice of Cowher was Rivers, but when Rivers was no longer available,the choice of Cowher was Shawn Andrews, but I have no idea if this story is true.

Exactly.

Cowher (and Schottenheimer) loved them some Philip Rivers. So... yes, Cowher was indeed willing to add a QB... as long as it was Philip Rivers. But, when his guy was gone, the "rumors" are that he wanted Shawn Andrews (instead of BB).

Dwinsgames
04-20-2016, 12:37 PM
we have to remember the Colbert comments where made recently not prior to the Rivers selection putting it into clearer context at least from where I sit

and the rest where rumors , I have heard many many rumors in my lifetime and less than half of them had any factual basis and where proved to be nothing more than idle chatter with no basis

fansince'76
04-20-2016, 12:42 PM
let the myth be debunked that Bill Cowher was against drafting Ben .....

Colbert: "Coach [Bill] Cowher unselfishly made the statement that, for the sake of the organization, if a quarterback is available, we should give it serious thought. Was that the most immediate need? No, because we didn't plan on Ben playing his rookie year. ... Tommy [Maddox] gets hurt in the first game, the rest was history."

LOL @ "not an immediate need." If Turnover Tommy had stayed healthy, we wouldn't have sniffed 15-1 in 2004 or the Super Bowl in '05. Hell, as it turned out, Maddox almost singlehandedly cost us a playoff berth in '05 anyway - thank God Batch was available to salvage two wins for us when Ben was hurt that year.

QB had been a very definite need for this team for 20+ years at that point.

The "not an immediate need" quote from Colbert is one more reason I'm dreading Roethlisberger's retirement, because we're probably going to go right back to settling for piles of suck like Maddox again.

Dwinsgames
04-20-2016, 12:49 PM
LOL @ "not an immediate need." If Turnover Tommy had stayed healthy, we wouldn't have sniffed 15-1 in 2004 or the Super Bowl in '05. Hell, as it turned out, Maddox almost singlehandedly cost us a playoff berth in '05 anyway - thank God Batch was available to salvage two wins for us when Ben was hurt that year.

QB had been a very definite need for this team for 20+ years at that point.

The "not an immediate need" quote from Colbert is one more reason I'm dreading Roethlisberger's retirement, because we're probably going to go right back to settling for piles of suck like Maddox again.


how quickly we forget Tommy Maddox coming on the scene and rescuing us when he first got the chance , Granted he was no Big Ben but he came out of nowhere and gave us a legit passing game and that was something we had not had since Bradshaw retired .

While I will be eternally grateful for Ben being selected I will also always remember the feeling of euphoria of Maddox throwing for over 300 yards for us ( something that was done only a handful of times in 20 years ) but he did it and was a threat to do it on any given sunday ( albeit for a short time frame ) or so memory serves . 473 yards passing vs Atlanta comes to mind

yes Maddox had his flaws ( many of them ) but he gave us hope ... Ben delivered that Hope from thoughts to Lombardi's

fansince'76
04-20-2016, 12:59 PM
we have to remember the Colbert comments where made recently not prior to the Rivers selection putting it into clearer context at least from where I sit

and the rest where rumors , I have heard many many rumors in my lifetime and less than half of them had any factual basis and where proved to be nothing more than idle chatter with no basis

I don't really consider it to be a rumor when it comes directly from the horse's mouth:


The Browns' picking tight end Kellen Winslow Jr. proved to be one of the draft's pivotal points. But the Steelers also came close to passing over Roethlisberger after he lasted through the first 10 picks.

The team had zeroed in on Arkansas offensive tackle Shawn Andrews, but owner Dan Rooney deftly shifted the conversation to Roethlisberger before the Steelers made their pick.

...Rooney fretted that overlooking Roethlisberger also might come back to haunt the Steelers.

"I couldn't bear the thought of passing on another great quarterback prospect," Rooney wrote in his book "Dan Rooney: My 75 Years With The Pittsburgh Steelers and The NFL."

"So I steered the conversation around to Roethlisberger. After some more talk, we came to a consensus and picked Roethlisberger."

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/6043/big-ben-pick-returned-steelers-to-glory

To review, according to Colbert, QB wasn't an immediate need, but another OT for what was a top-5 OL at the time was? OK. :noidea:

polamalubeast
04-20-2016, 01:02 PM
LOL @ "not an immediate need." If Turnover Tommy had stayed healthy, we wouldn't have sniffed 15-1 in 2004 or the Super Bowl in '05. Hell, as it turned out, Maddox almost singlehandedly cost us a playoff berth in '05 anyway - thank God Batch was available to salvage two wins for us when Ben was hurt that year.

QB had been a very definite need for this team for 20+ years at that point.

The "not an immediate need" quote from Colbert is one more reason I'm dreading Roethlisberger's retirement, because we're probably going to go right back to settling for piles of suck like Maddox again.


The Steelers now understand the importance of having a good QB.

It'll be very hard to find a HOF QB, but I do not think the QB that the Steelers will have after Roethlisberger will be bad as in 1984-2003.

Dwinsgames
04-20-2016, 01:05 PM
I don't really consider it to be a rumor when it comes directly from the horse's mouth:



http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/6043/big-ben-pick-returned-steelers-to-glory

To review, according to Colbert, QB wasn't an immediate need, but another OT for what was a top-5 OL at the time was? OK. :noidea:


I get what you are saying and I guess it just depends on what perspective you view it at ( clearly not everyone remembers as it truly happened )

BUT , the big question is why does Cowher take the hit on this and not Colbert , since the head coach while in the mix is not the final voice on player acquisitions and is one of the last people involved in the process since it starts long before the season ends and the HC is still working with his roster and trying to win games in the current season that is still happening at that point in time ...

see where I am coming from here ?

fansince'76
04-20-2016, 01:07 PM
how quickly we forget Tommy Maddox coming on the scene and rescuing us when he first got the chance , Granted he was no Big Ben but he came out of nowhere and gave us a legit passing game and that was something we had not had since Bradshaw retired .

While I will be eternally grateful for Ben being selected I will also always remember the feeling of euphoria of Maddox throwing for over 300 yards for us ( something that was done only a handful of times in 20 years ) but he did it and was a threat to do it on any given sunday ( albeit for a short time frame ) or so memory serves . 473 yards passing vs Atlanta comes to mind

yes Maddox had his flaws ( many of them ) but he gave us hope ... Ben delivered that Hope from thoughts to Lombardi's

I remember the 6-10 2003 season quite vividly, as well as duds like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ9TtEPbW8U

IMO, Maddox was simply more "fool's gold" at the QB position, just like Stewart and O'Donnell were. And I had had more than my fill of fool's gold at QB by that time.

Drazo85
04-20-2016, 01:15 PM
Its pretty safe bett that Goff and Wentz are going to have HOF carreers. Cleveland trading out of top 10 is reason why.

teegre
04-20-2016, 01:19 PM
Its pretty safe bett that Goff and Wentz are going to have HOF carreers. Cleveland trading out of top 10 is reason why.

:rofl2:

Post. Of. The. Day.

polamalubeast
04-20-2016, 05:41 PM
Did the Browns just pass on Big Ben again?


The Browns have sold the No. 2 pick for a bounty of future selections.

Forgoing the chance to grab one of the top two quarterbacks in the draft -- Jared Goff or Carson Wentz -- Cleveland is married to another path.

The Browns need a franchise quarterback like the Earth needs our sun, but Cleveland's intriguing front office is choosing to build out the roster before adding their signal-caller of tomorrow. Stockpiling picks to develop both sides of the ball, the Browns are trying to construct a team that will compete for years to come.

The Jaguars and Titans took the opposite route, choosing the quarterback first. Both approaches can work, but there's a caveat: Finding a franchise passer is akin to unearthing the Ark of the Covenant. Star quarterbacks don't just fall into your lap when teams decide the time is right.


read more

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000654455/article/did-the-browns-just-pass-on-big-ben-again?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Born2Steel
04-20-2016, 05:57 PM
I think this is a good move for the Browns. Which I'm not happy about, just saying. I don't see any super potential in Goff or Wentz honestly. I've said before, I believe Lynch will be the best QB to come out of this class anyway. And I don't see him being the next BB, or illegitimate Manning spawn either. But, what the Browns can do now is get elite talent together from a very deep 2016 draft, and multiple early 2017 picks. Teams have won with Hasselbacks and Dilfers at the helm, with the right personnel around them. I don't think we need to start fearing the Browns this year though, or next, but it would be nice if they could take some wins from the Ratbirds and Bungles once a year.

Dwinsgames
04-20-2016, 06:05 PM
I think this is a good move for the Browns. Which I'm not happy about, just saying. I don't see any super potential in Goff or Wentz honestly. I've said before, I believe Lynch will be the best QB to come out of this class anyway. And I don't see him being the next BB, or illegitimate Manning spawn either. But, what the Browns can do now is get elite talent together from a very deep 2016 draft, and multiple early 2017 picks. Teams have won with Hasselbacks and Dilfers at the helm, with the right personnel around them. I don't think we need to start fearing the Browns this year though, or next, but it would be nice if they could take some wins from the Ratbirds and Bungles once a year.



truth be told the most decorated passer in this class in terms of being battle tested could potentially be had in round 2 Connor Cook , he has faced stiffer competition and walked away the victor more often than not the leap to the NFL will not be as drastic therefore should be a smoother transition , put the right pieces around him and you can not only win with him but you could become a consistent winner with him

Dwinsgames
04-20-2016, 06:11 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CghYqL-UIAAeb7k.jpg

Born2Steel
04-20-2016, 06:25 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CghYqL-UIAAeb7k.jpg

Now compare with Lynch's numbers.

Dwinsgames
04-20-2016, 06:30 PM
Now compare with Lynch's numbers.


and Cook

Born2Steel
04-20-2016, 06:52 PM
In 2015, Lynch completed 67 percent of his passes for 3,778 yards with 28 touchdowns and three interceptions.

In 2015, Cook connected on 56 percent passes for 3,131 yards with 24 touchdowns and seven interceptions.

Dwinsgames
04-20-2016, 06:57 PM
In 2015, Lynch completed 67 percent of his passes for 3,778 yards with 28 touchdowns and three interceptions.

In 2015, Cook connected on 56 percent passes for 3,131 yards with 24 touchdowns and seven interceptions.


level of competition comes into play as well quite a difference in schedules from Memphis to Michigan state .

just saying Cook is battle tested you know what you are getting a guy tested under fire that won at a big time school vs top level competition

Born2Steel
04-20-2016, 07:03 PM
In 2015, Lynch completed 67 percent of his passes for 3,778 yards with 28 touchdowns and three interceptions.

In 2015, Cook connected on 56 percent passes for 3,131 yards with 24 touchdowns and seven interceptions.

Lynch career passing. 3yrs 62.9% comp, 8865 yards, 59TDs, 23INTs, 137.7 PR

Cook career passing. 4yrs 57.5% comp, 9194 yards, 71TDs, 22INTs, 139.8 PR

Fairly similar numbers.

The level of competition argument is nil.

silver & black
04-20-2016, 07:15 PM
If I remember correctly.... Which I might not, the Raiders also passed on Ben because, well..... they are the Raiders.

Born2Steel
04-20-2016, 07:36 PM
If I remember correctly.... Which I might not, the Raiders also passed on Ben because, well..... they are the Raiders.

He didn't run a fast enough 40 for Al Davis to select him in the 1st.

st33lersguy
04-20-2016, 07:54 PM
Did the Browns just pass on Big Ben again?


The Browns have sold the No. 2 pick for a bounty of future selections.

Forgoing the chance to grab one of the top two quarterbacks in the draft -- Jared Goff or Carson Wentz -- Cleveland is married to another path.

The Browns need a franchise quarterback like the Earth needs our sun, but Cleveland's intriguing front office is choosing to build out the roster before adding their signal-caller of tomorrow. Stockpiling picks to develop both sides of the ball, the Browns are trying to construct a team that will compete for years to come.

The Jaguars and Titans took the opposite route, choosing the quarterback first. Both approaches can work, but there's a caveat: Finding a franchise passer is akin to unearthing the Ark of the Covenant. Star quarterbacks don't just fall into your lap when teams decide the time is right.


read more

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000654455/article/did-the-browns-just-pass-on-big-ben-again?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

First of all, hard to justify comparing Big Ben to a draft prospect. 2nd of all Cleveland didn't get 5 extra picks when they passed on Ben

silver & black
04-20-2016, 08:06 PM
He didn't run a fast enough 40 for Al Davis to select him in the 1st.

True. He also wasn't a DB.... Al's favorite players.

steelerdude15
04-20-2016, 08:33 PM
Chances are, Ben probably would have had a bad and short career in Cleveland. Cleveland is the kiss of death for quarterbacks.

zulater
04-20-2016, 09:21 PM
If I remember correctly.... Which I might not, the Raiders also passed on Ben because, well..... they are the Raiders.

Yeah they drafted a "can't miss" stud left tackle Robert Gallery to anchor that position for the next 15 years. Well except for the fact that all he ever became was a mediocre guard for a while, they were right. :lol:

zulater
04-20-2016, 09:27 PM
Reading the article Butch Davis still wont own it that he effed it up big time in not drafting Ben. :doh: The moron still seems to think Rivers was better than Ben, and that if Winslow hadn't wrecked his knees that was the right choice!

SteelerFanInStl
04-22-2016, 06:31 PM
Thank you Clowns!!!

Dwinsgames
04-22-2016, 07:40 PM
Reading the article Butch Davis still wont own it that he effed it up big time in not drafting Ben. :doh: The moron still seems to think Rivers was better than Ben, and that if Winslow hadn't wrecked his knees that was the right choice!

its pretty hard for us steelers fans to envision Rivers as being better than Ben , but it is possible he would have done as well or better here in Pittsburgh , it is also very plausible he would not have fared as well we will just never know but its never been worth my time to ponder as I was quite happy getting Ben and am pleased with 2 Lombardis that have came through the door since his arrival , it would be nice to have at least 1 more come to town before he exits though

as a side note Butch Davis is an asshat , always was always will be in my book

silver & black
04-23-2016, 04:27 AM
Yeah they drafted a "can't miss" stud left tackle Robert Gallery to anchor that position for the next 15 years. Well except for the fact that all he ever became was a mediocre guard for a while, they were right. :lol:

Yea, but if I remember correctly, Gallery was on every team's list as can't miss.... and any team would have taken him. Such is the crap shoot called the draft. :noidea:

pczach
04-23-2016, 06:54 AM
its pretty hard for us steelers fans to envision Rivers as being better than Ben , but it is possible he would have done as well or better here in Pittsburgh , it is also very plausible he would not have fared as well we will just never know but its never been worth my time to ponder as I was quite happy getting Ben and am pleased with 2 Lombardis that have came through the door since his arrival , it would be nice to have at least 1 more come to town before he exits though

as a side note Butch Davis is an asshat , always was always will be in my book


I remember that QB draft class like it was yesterday.

Before the draft, I had the QBs ranked 1. Ben 2. Rivers 3. Manning

All have had great careers, but I still think Ben is the best and still would have been the best regardless of which player came to Pittsburgh. Remember, when Rivers went to the Chargers, they had the most talented roster in the NFL for years. They were never able to win anything with Rivers. There are no excuses when you have that much talent on a team, and you're the starting QB.

How you play in big moments....pressure moments, is more important than pure stats. Ben has been able to do that, Rivers has not.

This isn't some meathead post with me saying that Rivers isn't a good quarterback. It's just that it always irks me when people say that Rivers would have been better than Ben if he was drafted by the Steelers. Go back and check out the talent on that San Diego team. It was mind-blowing. Pittsburgh is the better organization by a mile, but Rivers had his window to win with the most talent around him for more than a few years. He didn't get it done.

Dwinsgames
04-23-2016, 08:50 AM
I remember that QB draft class like it was yesterday.

Before the draft, I had the QBs ranked 1. Ben 2. Rivers 3. Manning

All have had great careers, but I still think Ben is the best and still would have been the best regardless of which player came to Pittsburgh. Remember, when Rivers went to the Chargers, they had the most talented roster in the NFL for years. They were never able to win anything with Rivers. There are no excuses when you have that much talent on a team, and you're the starting QB.

How you play in big moments....pressure moments, is more important than pure stats. Ben has been able to do that, Rivers has not.

This isn't some meathead post with me saying that Rivers isn't a good quarterback. It's just that it always irks me when people say that Rivers would have been better than Ben if he was drafted by the Steelers. Go back and check out the talent on that San Diego team. It was mind-blowing. Pittsburgh is the better organization by a mile, but Rivers had his window to win with the most talent around him for more than a few years. He didn't get it done.

while I can see your point and do not necessarily disagree so much more comes into play imo.

1) chargers sucked ass when he was drafted ( remember that is why Manning refused to play there that initiated the trade )

2) coaching matters

Chargers have shot themselves in the foot so many times with Coaching

beyond that it turns into an argument that neither side can prove and I frankly have no interest in trying to as I am perfectly happy with how it all turned out .

its interesting to read different perspectives but it all comes down to proof in the end and there is none to support either side of the argument because its just impossible to accurately reproduce every aspect that has weight .. its an opinion thing that often times Ben falls short on because people can not see the hidden variables and just look to the stat lines .

Football is more than just stats as you well know ( not trying to convince you or preach just finishing my point )

Rivers may have won 3 SB in Pittsburgh or he could have the exact same amount as he has now Zero ( and consequently the team stuck at 4 total ) ... we will never know

I am glad it turned out the way it did , 2 Lombardi's in the hand are worth far more than .... well that didn't go as planned but you get my point I'm sure LOL

pczach
04-23-2016, 10:51 AM
while I can see your point and do not necessarily disagree so much more comes into play imo.

1) chargers sucked ass when he was drafted ( remember that is why Manning refused to play there that initiated the trade )

2) coaching matters

Chargers have shot themselves in the foot so many times with Coaching

beyond that it turns into an argument that neither side can prove and I frankly have no interest in trying to as I am perfectly happy with how it all turned out .

its interesting to read different perspectives but it all comes down to proof in the end and there is none to support either side of the argument because its just impossible to accurately reproduce every aspect that has weight .. its an opinion thing that often times Ben falls short on because people can not see the hidden variables and just look to the stat lines .

Football is more than just stats as you well know ( not trying to convince you or preach just finishing my point )

Rivers may have won 3 SB in Pittsburgh or he could have the exact same amount as he has now Zero ( and consequently the team stuck at 4 total ) ... we will never know

I am glad it turned out the way it did , 2 Lombardi's in the hand are worth far more than .... well that didn't go as planned but you get my point I'm sure LOL


I'm not arguing with you, I just want to finish my point.

The Manning family not wanting Eli to play there was personal in some ways.

Going into the season, they already had:

Drew Brees
LaDainian Tomlinson
Lorenzo Neal
Antonio Gates
Tim Dwight
Quentin Jammer
Donnie Edwards
Steve Foley
Jamal Williams


In 2004 they drafted:

Philip Rivers
Nick Hardwick
Nate Kaeding
Shaun Phillips
Michael Turner

Signed Wes Welker as an unsigned FA.

They became a very talented team very quickly and very early on for Philip Rivers.

I understand your point about the coaching, and when they did have a good coach(Marty Schottenheimer), the GM couldn't get along with him.

Just remember this. The Dallas Cowboys won a Super Bowl with Barry Switzer as their head coach, because they had the best roster in the NFL. The San Diego Chargers had the best roster in the NFL for a good number of years and didn't even sniff a Super Bowl.

This could be a long, interesting debate for another time! :D

Dwinsgames
04-23-2016, 10:59 AM
I'm not arguing with you, I just want to finish my point.

The Manning family not wanting Eli to play there was personal in some ways.

Going into the season, they already had:

Drew Brees
LaDainian Tomlinson
Lorenzo Neal
Antonio Gates
Tim Dwight
Quentin Jammer
Donnie Edwards
Steve Foley
Jamal Williams


In 2004 they drafted:

Philip Rivers
Nick Hardwick
Nate Kaeding
Shaun Phillips
Michael Turner

Signed Wes Welker as an unsigned FA.

They became a very talented team very quickly and very early on for Philip Rivers.

I understand your point about the coaching, and when they did have a good coach(Marty Schottenheimer), the GM couldn't get along with him.

Just remember this. The Dallas Cowboys won a Super Bowl with Barry Switzer as their head coach, because they had the best roster in the NFL. The San Diego Chargers had the best roster in the NFL for a good number of years and didn't even sniff a Super Bowl.

This could be a long, interesting debate for another time! :D

It could , but I am not willing to take the Rivers perspective , just not that interested and do not want to come off as a Big Ben hater in doing so cause nothing could be further from the truth

that being said if memory serves it was not until Rivers was drafted that Bree's turned into the player many suspected he would be when he was drafted , up until that point he was considered a disappointment and easily upgradable , in walks Rivers and all the sudden Bree's looks like a guy you want to keep but can't do to the investment in Rivers

polamalubeast
04-23-2016, 01:39 PM
The reason why the family of Eli did not want go to San Diego was because they not wanted to be in the same conference that his brother.

zulater
04-24-2016, 12:20 PM
Yea, but if I remember correctly, Gallery was on every team's list as can't miss.... and any team would have taken him. Such is the crap shoot called the draft. :noidea:

Very true. But to me teams over-value the tackle position in the draft. Yes it's nice to have the stud left tackle but a franchise qb (when you find the real deal) goes a lot further to taking you to the promised land than the best tackle in the game. Look at Joe Thomas in Cleveland. Great player, but give me a choice between him or Russell Wilson and I'm taking Wilson every time. Btw, the Steelers won Super Bowls with Max Starks starting at tackle.

pczach
04-24-2016, 02:12 PM
Very true. But to me teams over-value the tackle position in the draft. Yes it's nice to have the stud left tackle but a franchise qb (when you find the real deal) goes a lot further to taking you to the promised land than the best tackle in the game. Look at Joe Thomas in Cleveland. Great player, but give me a choice between him or Russell Wilson and I'm taking Wilson every time. Btw, the Steelers won Super Bowls with Max Starks starting at tackle.

Yeah, a great LT is great, but you just can't compare the value of an offensive lineman to a quarterback.

Pittsburgher
04-24-2016, 03:29 PM
I love Cleveland for that! Idiots! That's why the movie 'Draft Day' cracks me up, such a fantasy movie!

It does remind me of passing on Dan Marino, our hometown kid. I know, we still had Terry and no idea that he was about to blow that elbow out.