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SteelerEmpire
09-08-2010, 05:09 PM
Well. I think it would be a mistake... but this guy doesn't:

The Rev. Terry Jones:
http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/0907-koran-burning-dove-world-outreach-center/8597053-1-eng-US/0907-koran-burning-dove-world-outreach-center_full_380.jpg

What a better way to protest the Rev. Terry Jones scheduled burning of the Quran THAN A BURNING OF TERRY JONES'S IMAGE !!! LOL !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lne0NoxEoz8

Well. Here's a little more info:

Dove World church plan for Koran burning triggers counterprotests

The pastor of the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fla., is no stranger to controversy. Interfaith groups and others are mobilizing to protest his planned Koran burning on Sept. 11. ...

LINK: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2010/0907/Dove-World-church-plan-for-Koran-burning-triggers-counterprotests

Here's the Facebook page... Look in the photos section of some of the things this "Church" posted about Islam... I couldn't believe it !!! interesting... LINK: http://www.facebook.com/pages/International-Burn-A-Koran-Day/134718123226530?v=wall

SCSTILLER
09-08-2010, 05:21 PM
Big mistake. This will enrage muslims overseas and undo alot of things our troops are doing in the muslim nations

smokin3000gt
09-08-2010, 05:39 PM
I agree. I think it's foolish. It certainly does not help what we've been trying to accomplish for the past 9yrs.

X-Terminator
09-08-2010, 05:57 PM
Yeah, let's fight extremism with stupidity. What could possibly happen? :doh2:

I may have a strong distrust for Muslims, but I would never, EVER burn their holy book, nor would I ever support someone doing so. This guy is a moron.

cold-hard-steel
09-08-2010, 06:04 PM
Yeah,while we are at it lets burn the bible too.People have not learned to co-exist until this very day.No wonder there would have to be a great catastropy for us all to get along.

Wallace108
09-09-2010, 12:31 AM
So let me get this straight ... if they burn the Quran, it might incite hatred toward us? Here's a newsflash ... they ALREADY hate us!! And they're going to hate us and try to kill us whether the Quran is burned or not!

If it's OK to burn the American flag, then it should be OK to burn the Quran. The only people we have to worry about offending is moderate Muslims. But until the "moderates" are willing to stand up and denounce the extremists, I really don't care if they're offended!! If they're not part of the solution, then they're part of the problem.

Quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of the political correctness that tells us we need to respect Islam. If they want us to respect them and their religion, then they need to start respecting US. They can start by not building that mosque near Ground Zero and speaking out against extremists. Until then, I say fuck 'em.

Craic
09-09-2010, 12:58 AM
Once again I find the juxtaposition interesting between freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Do these guys have the right to burn a Koran? Absolutely. Should we as Americans protect that right? Completely. Will the Dove World Church accept the burning of the bible by a Muslim group down they block? I doubt it... but it is the same freedoms, based in the same constitution, which they are employing.

Or, the short version is.... "idiots"

smokin3000gt
09-09-2010, 12:59 AM
Yeah most of them hate us, and I don't care much for them either but all this kind of stuff does is push the moderates towards extremism meaning we have to keep more troops there for longer. If one person throws on an exploding vest (that otherwise wouldn't) and takes out American soldiers then burning the quran hurt us more than them IMO.

They are just going to use this as a terrorist recruiting tool (see Cowher's Terrible Towl shoe shine video). Believe me, I don't give 1, not even 2 fecks about their hurt feelings and I'm definitely not one for political correctness, I just don't see the advantage or benefit. Just stoking the fire (no pun). Instead of burning the quran, we should round up the terrorist fucks and burn them with flaming pig. Now that's productive!

Wallace108
09-09-2010, 01:09 AM
If one person throws on an exploding vest (that otherwise wouldn't) and takes out American soldiers then burning the quran hurt us more than them IMO.

If a Muslim is willing to strap a bomb to himself and blow up innocent people simply because someone burned a Quran, then what does that say about Islam and those who follow it?

I get deeply offended when I see people burning the American flag, but I certainly wouldn't kill anyone because of it ....

Craic
09-09-2010, 01:14 AM
So let me get this straight ... if they burn the Quran, it might incite hatred toward us? Here's a newsflash ... they ALREADY hate us!! And they're going to hate us and try to kill us whether the Quran is burned or not!

If it's OK to burn the American flag, then it should be OK to burn the Quran. The only people we have to worry about offending is moderate Muslims. But until the "moderates" are willing to stand up and denounce the extremists, I really don't care if they're offended!! If they're not part of the solution, then they're part of the problem.

Quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of the political correctness that tells us we need to respect Islam. If they want us to respect them and their religion, then they need to start respecting US. They can start by not building that mosque near Ground Zero and speaking out against extremists. Until then, I say fuck 'em.

The problem is, who is "they?" Just like Christianity, islam is a vast array of beliefs and systems. Every mosque potentially is independent of every other mosque (not withstanding, govt. takeovers such as Iran and multiple mosques under one leader or faction). In that way, it is JUST LIKE protestant Christianity-actually, even more so just like the Baptists. Each church is self-directed. My church, nor 50 of my churches cannot tell another church not to build. We simple do not have the authority. Whose to say that most of the mosques teach respect of us? Let me ask, do you expect me to get on the phone and call this pastor and tell him to not burn the Koran? No? THen why should you expect an Imam to get on the phone and tell another Imam not to build a mosque?

Do you think I support bombing abortion clinics? Of course I don't. But I have never made a public declaration against it. Why? Because those who do it could care less about me... and all I would accomplish, is making myself a target as well. However, in my church and my conversations, I utterly condemn it.

It is too easy to use "They" here. But Islam is not a monolithic organization. It is as or more fractured than the Christian church.

Wallace108
09-09-2010, 01:26 AM
The problem is, who is "they?" Just like Christianity, islam is a vast array of beliefs and systems. Every mosque potentially is independent of every other mosque (not withstanding, govt. takeovers such as Iran and multiple mosques under one leader or faction). In that way, it is JUST LIKE protestant Christianity-actually, even more so just like the Baptists. Each church is self-directed. My church, nor 50 of my churches cannot tell another church not to build. We simple do not have the authority. Whose to say that most of the mosques teach respect of us? Let me ask, do you expect me to get on the phone and call this pastor and tell him to not burn the Koran? No? THen why should you expect an Imam to get on the phone and tell another Imam not to build a mosque?

Do you think I support bombing abortion clinics? Of course I don't. But I have never made a public declaration against it. Why? Because those who do it could care less about me... and all I would accomplish, is making myself a target as well. However, in my church and my conversations, I utterly condemn it.

It is too easy to use "They" here. But Islam is not a monolithic organization. It is as or more fractured than the Christian church.

"They" are moderate Muslims. And we can't compare the rare instances of abortion clinic bombings to the acts of terrorism committed by Islamic extremists. If we started seeing abortion clinics getting bombed every day and hundreds of thousands of innocent people being killed, then yea, I'd expect you and every other Christian leader to stand up and denounce it.

Craic
09-09-2010, 02:08 AM
"They" are moderate Muslims. And we can't compare the rare instances of abortion clinic bombings to the acts of terrorism committed by Islamic extremists. If we started seeing abortion clinics getting bombed every day and hundreds of thousands of innocent people being killed, then yea, I'd expect you and every other Christian leader to stand up and denounce it.

Hundreds of thousands? Not sure where that is happening. But how about 17,000? That is a low-ball number for the Christians who ethnically cleansed Croatia, Bosnia, and Albania in the 1990's alone. Some of the concentration camps which held Muslims have been equated to the Nazi camps in WWII. In Nigeria, Christians and Muslims are killing each other like its the national sport. Where is the uproar from the Christian world? Do we even consider them true Christians that we should even condemn them, or are they just cultural Christians bastardizing a faith for political gain?

In short, there is enough blood on the hands of EVERY religion.... AND ATHIESTS (thank you USSR and Communist China/N. Korea) that no one is innocent. I don't want to be associated with Serbian warlords anymore than many muslims want to be associated with Hamas, or Al-Quada. Yet, I sure didn't support our involvement against the Serbian Christians. I was against it because I couldn't see at the time how it furthered U.S. National interests. Seems to me, that the same argument can be made concerning many muslims, heck the ones I knew in Turkey almost ALL wanted to move to the US for one reason.. The American dream. They were all college kids that felt Islam had to be reformed, much like Luther did to to the Catholic church.

Once again, there is NO MONOLITHIC ISLAM. It is a vast construct of a multiplicity of views, positions, and peoples.

JonM229
09-09-2010, 10:16 AM
I think the biggest problem with this whole ordeal is the amount of press this guy is getting, which is most likely all he really wants.

stlrtruck
09-09-2010, 10:41 AM
What kills me is that those in power asking this guy not to do this, also say it's okay to burn the American Flag. It's a freedom they have being in this country. It's not that I support his burning of the books, but more so support the fact that he is as free to burn those books as protestors are to burn the flag (which I have more of a problem with than burning the books).

Wallace108
09-09-2010, 01:19 PM
Hundreds of thousands? Not sure where that is happening. But how about 17,000? That is a low-ball number for the Christians who ethnically cleansed Croatia, Bosnia, and Albania in the 1990's alone. Some of the concentration camps which held Muslims have been equated to the Nazi camps in WWII. In Nigeria, Christians and Muslims are killing each other like its the national sport. Where is the uproar from the Christian world? Do we even consider them true Christians that we should even condemn them, or are they just cultural Christians bastardizing a faith for political gain?

In short, there is enough blood on the hands of EVERY religion.... AND ATHIESTS (thank you USSR and Communist China/N. Korea) that no one is innocent. I don't want to be associated with Serbian warlords anymore than many muslims want to be associated with Hamas, or Al-Quada. Yet, I sure didn't support our involvement against the Serbian Christians. I was against it because I couldn't see at the time how it furthered U.S. National interests. Seems to me, that the same argument can be made concerning many muslims, heck the ones I knew in Turkey almost ALL wanted to move to the US for one reason.. The American dream. They were all college kids that felt Islam had to be reformed, much like Luther did to to the Catholic church.

Once again, there is NO MONOLITHIC ISLAM. It is a vast construct of a multiplicity of views, positions, and peoples.

Excellent points, Preacher. I certainly can't dispute the atrocities that have been committed by Christians.

But let's say Christians in Bosnia were coming to America and terrorizing and killing Muslims here. Do you think Christians in America would sit back and not say anything? I'm willing to bet that they would stand up and denounce the attacks on Muslims here in America and try to separate themselves from the Christian extremists.

All I'm saying is that we're being told time and time again that we need to be tolerant of Islam. The worst crime you can commit today is offending a Muslim ... whether it's a cartoon of Muhammad, an inflammatory Facebook page, or the burning of the Quran. I don't see why we need to be respectful toward their religion when they're not willing to stand up and denounce the extremist elements of their religion.

For the record, I don't support burning the Quran. But if it happens ... :noidea:

cold-hard-steel
09-09-2010, 01:41 PM
"So let me get this straight ... if they burn the Quran, it might incite hatred toward us? Here's a newsflash ... they ALREADY hate us!! And they're going to hate us and try to kill us whether the Quran is burned or not!"


I'm almost certain that burning the Quran would help them respect us more.

The WH
09-09-2010, 02:57 PM
Here´s the deal with this shit. I go to a school in Sweden where 85% of the students are of Islaamic descent. What the fuck kind of position does this put me in as the only person from the USA that goes there? This makes me so angry. so angry.

SteelerEmpire
09-09-2010, 03:12 PM
We all know that we should give respect to the "good" people in a group no matter where we find them. But I think the fear of terrorism against Americans on American soil OR foreign soil is real (with many Americans)... THAT's the primary reason there is resistance against the Rev. burning the Quran. The objective of "terrorism" is to instill fear in the masses to get them to do what you want them to. In this sense, the terrorists "have" gotten their message across to the US. No doubt about it...
Is America REALLY ready for this war while having soo many interests in the world ? I don't know...?

NJarhead
09-09-2010, 05:00 PM
No Qurans to be burned/Mosque to be moved: http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/681-No-mosque-at-Ground-Zero?p=50910&viewfull=1#post50910 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/681-No-mosque-at-Ground-Zero?p=50910&viewfull=1#post50910)

venom
09-09-2010, 05:22 PM
Allah Akbar !!!

cold-hard-steel
09-09-2010, 06:23 PM
No Qurans to be burned/Mosque to be moved: http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/681-No-mosque-at-Ground-Zero?p=50910&viewfull=1#post50910 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/681-No-mosque-at-Ground-Zero?p=50910&viewfull=1#post50910)

Yeah,you got me on that one. Just a reaction on my part. I,m cool,i'll get over it. LOL

silver & black
09-09-2010, 09:12 PM
I don't agree with this even a little. It will do nothing but fan the flames of hatred... like there isn't enough of that already.

I don't agree with building the mosque/community center at ground zero, or the extremist Muslim agenda, but... this guy is just out to cause trouble, and nothing good will come of it.

GBMelBlount
09-09-2010, 09:14 PM
What kills me is that those in power asking this guy not to do this, also say it's okay to burn the American Flag. It's a freedom they have being in this country. It's not that I support his burning of the books, but more so support the fact that he is as free to burn those books as protestors are to burn the flag (which I have more of a problem with than burning the books).

Bingo.

Personally I couldn't care less if they burn it or not, regardless, you hit the nail on the head brother.

Craic
09-09-2010, 09:35 PM
Excellent points, Preacher. I certainly can't dispute the atrocities that have been committed by Christians.

But let's say Christians in Bosnia were coming to America and terrorizing and killing Muslims here. Do you think Christians in America would sit back and not say anything? I'm willing to bet that they would stand up and denounce the attacks on Muslims here in America and try to separate themselves from the Christian extremists.

All I'm saying is that we're being told time and time again that we need to be tolerant of Islam. The worst crime you can commit today is offending a Muslim ... whether it's a cartoon of Muhammad, an inflammatory Facebook page, or the burning of the Quran. I don't see why we need to be respectful toward their religion when they're not willing to stand up and denounce the extremist elements of their religion.

For the record, I don't support burning the Quran. But if it happens ... :noidea:

Ok. That post makes me feel quite a bit better about what you are saying, and I completely understand. For me, it is the fact that I will not allow terrorists push me to act in such a way that it will reinforce their view of the world and thus, enlarge their movement with new recruits.

However, I wish that the same amount of respect was given to Christianity in this country that is given to Islam and Judaism (how many times is football played on Christmas, or Sunday for that matter? Yet, look at what happened to the Giants and Jets this year.)

BPS3akaWirels3
09-09-2010, 09:35 PM
Yeah,while we are at it lets burn the bible too.People have not learned to co-exist until this very day.No wonder there would have to be a great catastropy for us all to get along.

I hope you are joking about the Bible.. Please do not bring the Bible into this.. TY

NJarhead
09-09-2010, 09:38 PM
Ok. That post makes me feel quite a bit better about what you are saying, and I completely understand. For me, it is the fact that I will not allow terrorists push me to act in such a way that it will reinforce their view of the world and thus, enlarge their movement with new recruits.

However, I wish that the same amount of respect was given to Christianity in this country that is given to Islam and Judaism (how many times is football played on Christmas, or Sunday for that matter? Yet, look at what happened to the Giants and Jets this year.)


? I must have missed it; what happened?

zulater
09-10-2010, 05:47 AM
I hope you are joking about the Bible.. Please do not bring the Bible into this.. TY

I guess the difference is anyone could publicly announce they were going to burn he bible and it would essentially be a non story. There wouldn't be violence in the street, live's wouldn't be in danger here or abroad. Over the past few years Christians sensibilities, icons and values have been skewered in the name of art multiple times. You see these wannabe hack artists defame the virgin Mary, or Jesus with some infantile crude display and the press largely celebrates it or dismisses it.

JonM229
09-10-2010, 08:34 AM
I guess the difference is anyone could publicly announce they were going to burn he bible and it would essentially be a non story. There wouldn't be violence in the street, live's wouldn't be in danger here or abroad. Over the past few years Christians sensibilities, icons and values have been skewered in the name of art multiple times. You see these wannabe hack artists defame the virgin Mary, or Jesus with some infantile crude display and the press largely celebrates it or dismisses it.

Sacrilege sells

Vis
09-10-2010, 09:05 AM
I guess the difference is anyone could publicly announce they were going to burn he bible and it would essentially be a non story. There wouldn't be violence in the street, live's wouldn't be in danger here or abroad. Over the past few years Christians sensibilities, icons and values have been skewered in the name of art multiple times. You see these wannabe hack artists defame the virgin Mary, or Jesus with some infantile crude display and the press largely celebrates it or dismisses it.


Burning books seems to be a traditions for some groups. If a bible burning announcement was made it would cause a huge backlash against the gropu doing it. Look at what building a community center caused.

Vincent
09-10-2010, 10:01 AM
Burning books seems to be a traditions for some groups

Yes. it does.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/285123/christians_in_gaza_fear_for_their_lives.html
Christians in Gaza Fear for Their Lives as Muslims Burn Bibles and Destroy Crosses


The difference in this instance is that nobody has to fear for their life.


If a bible burning announcement was made it would cause a huge backlash against the gropu doing it.

Here it would, but again, nobody would fear for their life. Where "the religion of peace" prevails, Bible and flag burning are commonplace.

What's a "gropu"?


Look at what building a community center caused.

Yeah, try building a YMCA in Mecca.

Vis
09-10-2010, 10:05 AM
Yes. it does.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/285123/christians_in_gaza_fear_for_their_lives.html
Christians in Gaza Fear for Their Lives as Muslims Burn Bibles and Destroy Crosses


The difference in this instance is that nobody has to fear for their life.



Here it would, but again, nobody would fear for their life. Where "the religion of peace" prevails, Bible and flag burning are commonplace.

What's a "gropu"?



Yeah, try building a YMCA in Mecca.

Why would I want to build a YMCA in Mecca? I like the free country thing. Please don't make us like them.

Vincent
09-10-2010, 10:22 AM
Why would I want to build a YMCA in Mecca?

I wouldn't. That was to serve the point.


I like the free country thing. Please don't make us like them.

Why would building a YMCA in mecca "make us like them"?

Vis
09-10-2010, 10:25 AM
I wouldn't. That was to serve the point, as you well know Counselor. But nice try.



Why would building a YMCA in mecca "make us like them"? You're off your game Counselor.

I'm sorry I didn't spell this out better for you. Making us like them would be making it as hard to build a Muslim center here like building a YMCA there would be. We need to stay free in this country which means allowing speech we don't like and use of private property we don't like. I don't care how restrictive any other country is. The issue is what we are.

Vincent
09-10-2010, 10:38 AM
meh.

SteelerEmpire
09-10-2010, 11:49 AM
I don't agree with this even a little. It will do nothing but fan the flames of hatred... like there isn't enough of that already.

I don't agree with building the mosque/community center at ground zero, or the extremist Muslim agenda, but... this guy is just out to cause trouble, and nothing good will come of it.

Is it true that there's already strip joints even closer to ground zero than that mosque would be ? I'm not for sure, just wondering, since so many say its "sacred" ground...

Vis
09-10-2010, 11:57 AM
Is it true that there's already strip joints even closer to ground zero than that mosque would be ? I'm not for sure, just wondering, since so many say its "sacred" ground...

Yes it's true. It's a private building. They could put anything in it. And there's an actual Mosque a two streets up with no national security issues.

zulater
09-10-2010, 01:55 PM
I've decided against supplying the link because it's too disturbing.But there was a link that was recenly pulled from youtube in which Muslims are shown burning Christians alive. This year! Funny how that didn't create an international outrage, but a kook burning a book does.

I don't want this putz to burn the Koran, but only because I don't want to put more American's in harms way.

NJarhead
09-10-2010, 02:23 PM
I've decided against supplying the link because it's too disturbing.But there was a link that was recenly pulled from youtube in which Muslims are shown burning Christians alive. This year! Funny how that didn't create an international outrage, but a kook burning a book does.

I don't want this putz to burn the Koran, but only because I don't want to put more American's in harms way.

We put a Navy Seal on trial because he punched an insurgent in the face. The insurgent was captured for his role in killing, burning and stringing up from a bridge, several Black Water security personnel.

I'm sure many American Socialists (Modern Day Liberals) applauded both the insurgents' actions, and the charges against the Seal.

silver & black
09-10-2010, 04:15 PM
Is it true that there's already strip joints even closer to ground zero than that mosque would be ? I'm not for sure, just wondering, since so many say its "sacred" ground...

That may be, but the last time I checked, strippers didn't fly planes into the twin towers.... Muslim terroists DID.

JonM229
09-10-2010, 05:59 PM
That may be, but the last time I checked, strippers didn't fly planes into the twin towers.... Muslim terroists DID.

Best Sex/Action movie name ever: Muslim Terrorist Strippers

Somebody bring me a camera

Vis
09-10-2010, 06:58 PM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs365.snc4/44803_468667162673_607062673_7107838_5966018_n.jpg

Vis
09-10-2010, 07:00 PM
That may be, but the last time I checked, strippers didn't fly planes into the twin towers.... Muslim terroists DID.

brunette male muslim terrorists did. Do we ban all brunettes, all males, all muslims or all terrorists?

venom
09-10-2010, 07:15 PM
Why do Liberals always fight for the rights of others and put Americans in the back ?

venom
09-10-2010, 07:22 PM
Heres a list of terrorist attacks on American soil that I looked up . Pretty impressive I must say .

Date Country City/State Killed Injured Description:

4/14/1972 USA New York, NY 1 3 Ten members of a local mosque phone in a false alarm and then ambush responding officers, killing one.
1/19/1973 USA Brooklyn, NY 1 1 Muslim extremists rob a sporting goods store for weapons, gunning down a police officer who responds to the alarm.
7/18/1973 USA Washington, DC 8 2 Nation of Islam members shoot seven members of a family to death in cold blood, including four children. A defendant in the case is later murdered in prison on orders from Elijah Muhammad.
10/19/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 1 Nation of Islam terrorists kidnap a couple and nearly decapitate the man, while raping and leaving the woman for dead.
10/29/1973 USA Berkeley, CA 1 0 A woman is shot repeatedly in the face by Nation of Islam terrorists.
11/25/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A grocer is killed in his store by Nation of Islam terrorists.
12/11/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A man is killed by Nation of Islam terrorists while using a phone booth.
12/13/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A woman is shot to deah on the sidewalk by Nation of Islam terrorists.
12/20/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 Nation of Islam terrorists gun down an 81-year-old janitor.
12/22/1973 USA Oakland, CA 2 0 Nation of Islam terrorist kills two people in separate attacks on the same day.
12/24/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A man is kidnapped, tortured and decapitated by Nation of Islam terrorists.
1/24/1974 USA Oakland, CA 4 1 Five vicious shooting attacks by Nation of Islam terrorists leave three people dead and one paralyzed for life. Three of the victims were women.
4/1/1974 USA Oakland, CA 1 1 A Nation of Islam terrorist shoots at two Salvation Army members, killing a man and injuring a woman.
4/16/1974 USA Ingleside, CA 1 0 A man is killed while helping a friend move by Nation of Islam terrorists.
3/9/1977 USA Washington, DC 1 1 Hanifi Muslims storm three buildings including a B'nai B'rith to hold 134 people host (http://hosting.brokeroutpost.com/)age. At least two innocents were shot and one died.
7/22/1980 USA Bethesda, MD 1 0 A political dissident is shot and killed in front of his home by an Iranian agent who was an American convert to Islam.
8/31/1980 USA Savou, IL 2 0 An Iranian student guns down his next-door neighbors, a husband and wife.

NJarhead
09-10-2010, 07:23 PM
Where there is a terrorist , theres a Liberal lawyer who will fight tooth and nail for his rights !

And thousands of blind liberals supporting him.

venom
09-10-2010, 07:23 PM
Con't

1/31/1990 USA Tuscon, AZ 1 0 A Sunni cleric is assassinated in front of a Tuscon mosque after declaring that two verses of the Qur'an were invalid.
11/5/1990 USA New York City, NY 1 0 An Israeli rabbi is shot to death by a Muslim attacker at a hotel.
1/25/1993 USA Langley, VA 2 3 A Pakistani with Mujahideen ties guns down two CIA agents outside of the headquarters.
2/26/1993 USA New York, NY 6 1040 Islamic terrorists detonate a massive truck bomb under the World Trade Center, killing six people and injuring over 1,000 in an effort to collapse the towers.
3/1/1994 USA Brooklyn, NY 1 0 A Muslim fires on a vanload of Jewish boys, killing one.
3/23/1997 USA New York, NY 1 6 A Palestinian leaves an anti-Jewish suicide note behind and travels to the top of the Empire State building where he shoot seven people in a Fedayeen attack.
4/3/1997 USA Lompoc, CA 1 0 A prison guard is stabbed to death by a radical Muslim.
10/31/1999 USA Near Nantucket 217 0 An Egyptian airline pilot runs a planeload of 217 passengers into the water after uttering a Qur'anic prayer.
3/17/2000 USA Atlanta, GA 1 1 A local imam and Muslim spiritual leader guns down a deputy sheriff and injures his partner.
9/11/2001 USA Washington, DC 184 53 Nearly 200 people are killed when Islamic hijackers steer a plane full of people into the Pentagon.
9/11/2001 USA Shanksville, PA 40 0 Forty passengers are killed after Islamic radicals hijack the plane in an attempt to steer it into the U.S. Capitol building.
9/11/2001 USA New York, NY 2772 251 Islamic hijackers steer two planes packed with fuel and passengers into the World Trade Center, killing hundreds on impact and eventually killing thousands when the towers collapsed. At least 200 are seriously injured.
3/19/2002 USA Tuscon, AZ 1 0 A 60-year-old man is gunned down by Muslim snipers on a golf course.
5/27/2002 USA Denton, TX 1 0 Muslim snipers kill a man as he works in his yard.
7/4/2002 USA Los Angeles, CA 2 0 Muslim man pulls out a gun at the counter of an Israeli airline and kills two people.
9/5/2002 USA Clinton, MD 1 0 A 55-year-old pizzaria owner is shot six times in the back by Muslims at close range.
9/21/2002 USA Montgomery, AL 1 1 Muslim snipers shoot two women, killing one.
9/23/2002 USA Baton Rouge, LA 1 0 A Korean mother is shot in the back by Muslim snipers.
10/2/2002 USA Wheaton, MD 1 0 Muslim snipers gun down a program analyst in a store parking lot.
10/3/2002 USA Montgomery County, MD 5 0 Muslim snipers kill three men and two women in separate attacks over a 15-hour period.
10/9/2002 USA Manassas, VA 1 1 A man is killed by Muslim snipers while pumping gas two days after a 13-year-old is wounded by the same team.
10/11/2002 USA Fredericksburg, VA 1 0 Another man is killed by Muslim snipers while pumping gas.
10/14/2002 USA Arlington, VA 1 0 A woman is killed by Muslim snipers in a Home Depot parking lot.
10/22/2002 USA Aspen Hill, MD 1 0 A bus driver is killed by Muslim snipers.
8/6/2003 USA Houston, TX 1 0 After undergoing a religious revival, a Saudi college student slashes the throat of a Jewish student with a 4" butterfly knife, nearly decapitating the young man.
12/2/2003 USA Chicago, IL 1 0 A Muslim doctor deliberately allows a Jewish patient to die from an easily treatable condition.
4/13/2004 USA Raleigh, NC 1 4 A Muslim man runs down five strangers with a car.
4/15/2004 USA Scottsville, NY 1 2 In an honor killing, a Muslim father kills his wife and attacks his two daughters with a knife and hammer because he feared that they had been sexually molested.
6/16/2006 USA Baltimore, MD 1 0 A 62-year-old Jewish moviegoer is shot to death by a Muslim gunman in an unprovoked terror attack.
6/25/2006 USA Denver, CO 1 5 Saying that it was 'Allah's choice', a Muslim shoots four of his co-workers and a police officer.
7/28/2006 USA Seattle, WA 1 5 An 'angry' Muslim-American uses a young girl as host (http://hosting.brokeroutpost.com/)age to enter a local Jewish center, where he shoots six women, one of whom dies.
10/6/2006 USA Louisville, KY 4 1 In an 'honor' attack, a Muslim man rapes and beats his estranged wife, leaving her for dead, then savagely murders their four children.
2/13/2007 USA Salt Lake City, UT 5 4 A Muslim immigrant goes on a shooting rampage at a mall, targeting people buying Valentine's Day cards at a gift shop and killing five.
1/1/2008 USA Irving, TX 2 0 A Muslim immigrant shoots his two daughters to death on concerns about their 'Western' lifestyle.
7/6/2008 USA Jonesboro, GA 1 0 A devout Muslim strangles his 25-year-old daughter in an honor killing.
2/12/2009 USA Buffalo, NY 1 0 The founder of a Muslim TV station beheads his wife in the hallway for seeking a divorce.
6/1/2009 USA Little Rock, AR 1 1 A Muslim with 'religious motives' shoots a local soldier to death inside a recruiting center.
11/2/2009 USA Glendale, AZ 1 1 A woman dies from injuries suffered when her father runs her down with a car for being too 'Westernized.' (10-20-09)
11/5/2009 USA Ft. Hood, TX 13 31 A Muslim psychiatrist guns down thirteen unarmed soldiers after proclaiming that 'Muslims should stand up and fight."


Where there is a terrorist , theres a Liberal lawyer who will fight tooth and nail for his rights !

Vis
09-10-2010, 07:24 PM
Why do Liberals always fight for the rights of others and put Americans in the back ?

Why do you ignore that they can be Americans too.

Vis
09-10-2010, 07:26 PM
http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/fbi-finds-pipe-bomb-used-in-blast-at-fla-mosque/19475001

venom
09-10-2010, 07:29 PM
ACLU is right there to make sure the terrorists have utensils and the music is not too loud for sleeping . Thats cruel punishment for them . Pooooor little terrorists . But behead a soldier , not a word from ACLU .

venom
09-10-2010, 07:31 PM
Since when are Liberals all for Religious Freedom ? Ain't they the ones who want to get rid of God ( hope I don't offend anyone by that word ) in everything ?

venom
09-10-2010, 07:32 PM
Go Steelers ?

stillers4me
09-10-2010, 07:32 PM
That little red spot has already inflicted a helluva lot of damage.

NJarhead
09-10-2010, 07:32 PM
Why do you ignore that they can be Americans too.
"They" as in Liberals? That's your argument?

venom
09-10-2010, 07:34 PM
That little red spot has already inflicted a helluva lot of damage.

You ain't kidding . Training 10 and 11 year olds help also

silver & black
09-10-2010, 08:46 PM
brunette male muslim terrorists did. Do we ban all brunettes, all males, all muslims or all terrorists?

You pick.

The WH
09-11-2010, 02:54 AM
Vis, there is no point in arguing with them. You'd be better off trying to convince a cement wall it was a river.

Vis
09-11-2010, 04:31 AM
That little red spot has already inflicted a helluva lot of damage.

So best to focus on them and not waste energy on misplaced xenophobia.

Vis
09-11-2010, 05:14 AM
Vis, there is no point in arguing with them. You'd be better off trying to convince a cement wall it was a river.

But I enjoy it so and there might just be hope that the ability to draw distinctions and hold complex thoughts will develop in them so the chest beating, irrational, group-think will fade.

ALLD
09-11-2010, 08:08 AM
There is a double standard.

Did you notice how all the top American leadership overwhelmingly denounced this act of burning a book and its symbolism whereas few if any muslim leaders ever denouced 911 where there was a real loss of innocent lives? That is the biggest tragedy.

It is obvious we are a better society because we can use common sense and have enough courage and dignity to say when something is wrong even when it is from one of our own. You do not see that with most muslims and that is why they do not receive good public relations. They are muslims first and Americans second instead of the proper method of the other way around. They will continue to be persecuted until they change their priorities. If they do not it could theoretically be perceived as treachery.

LLT
09-11-2010, 08:31 AM
brunette male muslim terrorists did. Do we ban all brunettes, all males, all muslims or all terrorists?



Was 9/11 a result of people acting out in the name of hair color...manhood...or religion?

I by no means think that all Muslims are terrorists. But I do KNOW that there is a group of Muslim extremists (who ARE terrorists)...who hate our country, attacked it, and wish to bring down western civilization.

Not in the name of "Clairol"...not in the name of "Testosterone"....but in mistaken believe that Allah is blessing their actions

cold-hard-steel
09-11-2010, 08:49 AM
Think of all the sons,daughters,mothers and fathers and friends that lost their lives from the very people(reigion) who wants to build that mosque on the very site it occurred at. Remember? I don't know why there are people against it. Get real.

silver & black
09-11-2010, 08:49 AM
Was 9/11 a result of people acting out in the name of hair color...manhood...or religion?

I by no means think that all Muslims are terrorists. But I do KNOW that there is a group of Muslim extremists (who ARE terrorists)...who hate our country, attacked it, and wish to bring down western civilization.

Not in the name of "Clairol"...not in the name of "Testosterone"....but in mistaken believe that Allah is blessing their actions

You spent more time on that than I was willing to give it... nice post.

cold-hard-steel
09-11-2010, 09:05 AM
But I enjoy it so and there might just be hope that the ability to draw distinctions and hold complex thoughts will develop in them so the chest beating, irrational, group-think will fade.

Hi steel city mom. I love you.

Vis
09-11-2010, 09:29 AM
Was 9/11 a result of people acting out in the name of hair color...manhood...or religion?

I by no means think that all Muslims are terrorists. But I do KNOW that there is a group of Muslim extremists (who ARE terrorists)...who hate our country, attacked it, and wish to bring down western civilization.

Not in the name of "Clairol"...not in the name of "Testosterone"....but in mistaken believe that Allah is blessing their actions


And the KKK burns crosses because they are the true Christians. Extremists who claim a religion don't own it nor do all adherents to the religion being abused need to answer for the sins of the crazies.

venom
09-11-2010, 10:02 AM
http://images.craigslist.org/3k33p63l75T65Q25W0a9b302b8ef9701f1a4a.jpg

Wallace108
09-11-2010, 10:02 AM
nor do all adherents to the religion being abused need to answer for the sins of the crazies.

Just out of curiosity, do you disagree with the NAACP's demand that the Tea Party rid itself of racist elements?

cold-hard-steel
09-11-2010, 10:10 AM
I don't think the KKK had the Quran in mind when they started their group.A cult is quite different than a religion.For the record the KKK was wrong to the core.What did the black people ever do to them? Nothing.What did some Muslims do to us?

Vis
09-11-2010, 10:10 AM
Just out of curiosity, do you disagree with the NAACP's demand that the Tea Party rid itself of racist elements?

Yes It's impossible and, frankly, it dilutes their influence which is good. I like how easily mocked the tea baggers are

LLT
09-11-2010, 10:11 AM
And the KKK burns crosses because they are the true Christians. Extremists who claim a religion don't own it nor do all adherents to the religion being abused need to answer for the sins of the crazies.

Actually...thank you for proving my point.

Or perhaps you missed the whole paragraph where I said....


I by no means think that all Muslims are terrorists. But I do KNOW that there is a group of Muslim extremists (who ARE terrorists)...who hate our country, attacked it, and wish to bring down western civilization.

Let me be more clear for you...The KKK no more represents all of Christianity, than the Muslim Extremists represent all of Islam.

That being said...those that use the Bible as fodder for hate need to be called out for it. Those that use the Quran should be held to the same standard.

Vis
09-11-2010, 10:14 AM
I don't think the KKK had the Quran in mind when they started their group.A cult is quite different than a religion.For the record the KKK was wrong to the core.What did the black people ever do to them? Nothing.What did some Muslims do to us?

This has nothing to do with my point. The KKK uses the Bible to justify what they do. That doesn't mean the Bible should be burned and non-KKK Christians should be limited in where they can build a church because the KKK is evil.

LLT
09-11-2010, 10:16 AM
This has nothing to do with my point. The KKK uses the Bible to justify what they do. That doesn't mean the Bible should be burned and non-KKK Christians should be limited in where they can build a church because the KKK is evil.

I agree with you that the Quran should not be burned....and I am SURE you agree with me that the American flag should also not be burned....right?

Freedom of speech and expression are not only for the minority.

Vis
09-11-2010, 10:16 AM
Actually...thank you for proving my point.

Or perhaps you missed the whole paragraph where I said....



Let me be more clear for you...The KKK no more represents all of Christianity, than the Muslim Extremists represent all of Islam.

That being said...those that use the Bible as fodder for hate need to be called out for it. Those that use the Quran should be held to the same standard.


Too bad that isn't what's happening. Too many are blaming Islam as a whole. Xenophobia is rampant. Look at the photograph venom just posted.

Wallace108
09-11-2010, 10:17 AM
Yes It's impossible and, frankly, it dilutes their influence which is good. I like how easily mocked the tea baggers are

Do you not see the hypocrisy in this view compared to your view on Muslim extremists?

Vis
09-11-2010, 10:20 AM
I agree with you that the Quran should not be burned....and I am SURE you agree with me that the American flag should also not be burned....right?

Freedom of speech and expression are not only for the minority.

Oh, I think the Quran can be legally burned in this country, as the Bible can and as the flag can. That's why the flag means so much - it stands for a nation with an ideal of freedom so great it allows the burning of it's most cherished symbol without criminal consequences. To protect the flag by lowering freedom would diminish it.

Vis
09-11-2010, 10:22 AM
Do you not see the hypocrisy in this view compared to your view on Muslim extremists?

Extremists are extremists. Where's the hypocrisy? I'm german in origin but I don't answer for some evil germans did in the past.

Wallace108
09-11-2010, 10:28 AM
Extremists are extremists. Where's the hypocrisy? I'm german in origin but I don't answer for some evil germans did in the past.

You said the racist elements of the tea party dilute the groups influence and make it easy to mock it. Well, the Muslim extremists make it easy for some to distrust all Muslims and want to mock their religion.

Therein lies the hypocrisy. You're judging one group based on the actions of its extremists, but you're condemning those who judge the other group based on the actions of ITS extremists.

Vis
09-11-2010, 10:34 AM
You said the racist elements of the tea party dilute the groups influence and make it easy to mock it. Well, the Muslim extremists make it easy for some to distrust all Muslims and want to mock their religion.

Therein lies the hypocrisy. You're judging one group based on the actions of its extremists, but you're condemning those who judge the other group based on the actions of ITS extremists.

Ah. I see where you are going. I don't judge the tea baggers because of the racists they attract. I think the racists are useful, as I said, to dilute their power. I judge tea baggers on the crap they sell officially. It's their official positions I think are wrong.

cold-hard-steel
09-11-2010, 10:35 AM
This has nothing to do with my point. The KKK uses the Bible to justify what they do. That doesn't mean the Bible should be burned and non-KKK Christians should be limited in where they can build a church because the KKK is evil.

Looky here man,You brought a cult into the discussion.This has nothing to do with a cult.This has to do with a topic that is very sensitive for a lot of people. Muslims,and victims alike.I would never burn a flag,a quran,or a bible.That is unless i needed it for survival ,you know,heat,light.I saw your same tactics over on another unspecified site too.

LLT
09-11-2010, 10:46 AM
Too bad that isn't what's happening. Too many are blaming Islam as a whole. Xenophobia is rampant. Look at the photograph venom just posted.

I have no doubt that he posted the photo to "get your goat"...

Its so typical for the left to try and convince everyone that those with opposing viewpoints are Xenophobes. Liberals so often have to play the victimization card to try and prove a point. They find idiots like this pastor...and try so desperately to betray everyone who doesnt agree with their point of view (in this case "many") as being painted with the same brush.

The majority of people in this country are like me....they do not hate Muslims...they hate Muslim terrorists who use a religion as a means to feed the fires of hate. I would hate Jewish terrorists groups if they used the Tanakh as fuel of hatred...I would hate Christian terrorists who used the Bible as fuel for hatred. (By the way...noone OUTSIDE of the KKK...likes the KKK).

When someone from the left uses such fallacies to attempt to make a point...it doesnt help their cause at all.

LLT
09-11-2010, 10:48 AM
You said the racist elements of the tea party dilute the groups influence and make it easy to mock it. Well, the Muslim extremists make it easy for some to distrust all Muslims and want to mock their religion.

Therein lies the hypocrisy. You're judging one group based on the actions of its extremists, but you're condemning those who judge the other group based on the actions of ITS extremists.

Thank you for an incredible line of logic.



For those keeping score. THIS is the correct way to debate!! Rep points coming your way!!!

Vis
09-11-2010, 10:52 AM
I have no doubt that he posted the photo to "get your goat"...

Its so typical for the left to try and convince everyone that those with opposing viewpoints are Xenophobes. Liberals so often have to play the victimization card to try and prove a point. They find idiots like this pastor...and try so desperately to betray everyone who doesnt agree with their point of view (in this case "many") as being painted with the same brush.

The majority of people in this country are like me....they do not hate Muslims...they hate Muslim terrorists who use a religion as a means to feed the fires of hate. I would hate Jewish terrorists groups if they used the Tanakh as fuel of hatred...I would hate Christian terrorists who used the Bible as fuel for hatred. (By the way...noone OUTSIDE of the KKK...likes the KKK).

When someone from the left uses such fallacies to attempt to make a point...it doesnt help their cause at all.

Look at the broad brush you use for everything. Don't talk of liberals as a monolithic group. If you want to say something to me, say it to me. I'm sure venom never posted anything like that photo before I joined yesterday since it was just to get my goat.

I hope you're right about the majority of people in this country. This is a thread about someone burning the Quran who obviously can't see the difference you just described. The people against the Muslim community center also can't tell the difference between terrorists and all other Muslims. Speak out and educate them, LLT

SteelerEmpire
09-11-2010, 10:58 AM
Look at the broad brush you use for everything. Don't talk of liberals as a monolithic group. If you want to say something to me, say it to me. I'm sure venom never posted anything like that photo before I joined yesterday since it was just to get my goat.

I hope you're right about the majority of people in this country. This is a thread about someone burning the Quran who obviously can't see the difference you just described. The people against the Muslim community center also can't tell the difference between terrorists and all other Muslims. Speak out and educate them, LLT

Where's the pic at ?

Vis
09-11-2010, 11:00 AM
Where's the pic at ?

Page 7. Heading to college football page - Go Cocks!!!

silver & black
09-11-2010, 11:02 AM
I judge tea baggers on the crap they sell officially.

Really? The "crap" that they are selling is:

1.Identify constitutionality of every new law: Require each bill to identify the specific provision of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does. (82.03%)

2.Reject emissions trading: Stop the "cap and trade" administrative approach used to control pollution by providing economic incentives for achieving reductions in the emissions of pollutants. (72.20%)

3.Demand a balanced federal budget: Begin the Constitutional amendment process to require a balanced budget with a two-thirds majority needed for any tax modification. (69.69%)

4.Simplify the tax system: Adopt a simple and fair single-rate tax system by scrapping the internal revenue code and replacing it with one that is no longer than 4,543 words – the length of the original Constitution. (64.9%)

5.Audit federal government agencies for constitutionality: Create a Blue Ribbon taskforce that engages in an audit of federal agencies and programs, assessing their Constitutionality, and identifying duplication, waste, ineffectiveness, and agencies and programs better left for the states or local authorities. (63.37%)

6.Limit annual growth in federal spending: Impose a statutory cap limiting the annual growth in total federal spending to the sum of the inflation rate plus the percentage of population growth. (56.57%)

7.Repeal the health care legislation passed on March 23, 2010: Defund, repeal and replace the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. (56.39%)

8.Pass an 'All-of-the-Above' Energy Policy: Authorize the exploration of additional energy reserves to reduce American dependence on foreign energy sources and reduce regulatory barriers to all other forms of energy creation. (55.5%)

9.Reduce Earmarks: Place a moratorium on all earmarks until the budget is balanced, and then require a 2/3 majority to pass any earmark. (55.47%)

10.Reduce Taxes: Permanently repeal all recent tax increases, and extend permanently the George W. Bush temporary reductions in income tax, capital gains tax and estate taxes, currently scheduled to end in 2011. (53.38%)

Yeah... what a bunch jerks. :rolleyes:

LLT
09-11-2010, 11:04 AM
Look at the broad brush you use for everything. Don't talk of liberals as a monolithic group. If you want to say something to me, say it to me. I'm sure venom never posted anything like that photo before I joined yesterday since it was just to get my goat.

I hope you're right about the majority of people in this country. This is a thread about someone burning the Quran who obviously can't see the difference you just described. The people against the Muslim community center also can't tell the difference between terrorists and all other Muslims. Speak out and educate them, LLT


But the difference is...that I don't fall into that group of "many" who you claim are Xenophobes. You DO, however fall into the that group who are attempting to use a false victimization arguement.

In THIS case...the "broad brush"...only painted one of us fairly.

You are correct in that this thread is about an idiot who wanted to do something offensive to many...in order to make his point to a few. However you are incorrect in thinking that this pastor is typical of any group other than those who are uneducated. As you said in the part of your post that I highlighted...this post is about "SOMEONE" burning the Quran.....your mistake is in substituting that word with the word..."many".

As for "educating" them...the point of my post is that the majority of people are "educated" about this situation. There just happens to be those at the extreme who think:

A) Everyone is a Xenophobe
B) All Muslims are Terrorists.

cold-hard-steel
09-11-2010, 11:22 AM
Look at the broad brush you use for everything. Don't talk of liberals as a monolithic group. If you want to say something to me, say it to me. I'm sure venom never posted anything like that photo before I joined yesterday since it was just to get my goat.

I hope you're right about the majority of people in this country. This is a thread about someone burning the Quran who obviously can't see the difference you just described. The people against the Muslim community center also can't tell the difference between terrorists and all other Muslims. Speak out and educate them, LLT

Well it is obvious that you have been here before.Especially when you bring up the broad-brush. Is that you Tone?

The WH
09-11-2010, 02:01 PM
Build the Mosque, it's a free country. Sensitivity is for those pansy liberals.

Vis
09-11-2010, 04:04 PM
Well it is obvious that you have been here before.Especially when you bring up the broad-brush. Is that you Tone?

Vis, Vis Major, Franco, or Snowdog depending on the site and the era.

Vis
09-11-2010, 04:08 PM
But the difference is...that I don't fall into that group of "many" who you claim are Xenophobes. You DO, however fall into the that group who are attempting to use a false victimization arguement.

In THIS case...the "broad brush"...only painted one of us fairly.

You are correct in that this thread is about an idiot who wanted to do something offensive to many...in order to make his point to a few. However you are incorrect in thinking that this pastor is typical of any group other than those who are uneducated. As you said in the part of your post that I highlighted...this post is about "SOMEONE" burning the Quran.....your mistake is in substituting that word with the word..."many".

As for "educating" them...the point of my post is that the majority of people are "educated" about this situation. There just happens to be those at the extreme who think:

A) Everyone is a Xenophobe
B) All Muslims are Terrorists.

This isn't a PM. I'm posting in a public thread about the topic. No one thinks everyone is a xenophobe. Some think all muslims are terrorists or at least should answer for the terrorists. People who think that are xenophobes. It's pretty clear.

Also some think all liberals think alike - those people are pea wits.

venom
09-11-2010, 05:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Ka4OW8OYU

You knew some asswipe was going to do this today .

Vis
09-11-2010, 05:07 PM
See what I mean, LLT?

LLT
09-11-2010, 05:12 PM
See what I mean, LLT?

Yes...this would be one of the "few" idiots. He is not proof of world wide hysteria...just proof that inbreeding generally has bad results. It affects higher thinking, makes one paranoid and hate-filled....and can even make one a Bengals fan.

venom
09-11-2010, 05:13 PM
Just like how some people enjoy buring the bible or the American flag , I have no problem with the burning of the Quran .

venom
09-11-2010, 05:15 PM
I saw a video of an interview with that guy . Hes a Jet fan and yes , an idiot . lol

LLT
09-11-2010, 05:20 PM
Just like how some people enjoy buring the bible or the American flag , I have no problem with the burning of the Quran .

I understand that one has the right to do it... just wish that people had the common sense to NOT do it.

cold-hard-steel
09-11-2010, 06:36 PM
Do not burn the Koran!!!Bury it!!!!

venom
09-11-2010, 07:34 PM
I understand that one has the right to do it... just wish that people had the common sense to NOT do it.

:yup:

Craic
09-11-2010, 09:13 PM
This isn't a PM. I'm posting in a public thread about the topic. No one thinks everyone is a xenophobe. Some think all muslims are terrorists or at least should answer for the terrorists. People who think that are xenophobes. It's pretty clear.

Also some think all liberals think alike - those people are pea wits.

Your consequent does not logically follow your antecedent in the highlight above. Xenophobes are people who are afraid or hates foreigners. The antecedent may simply be a belief that politically, to pressure all in a people group based on the actions of a few will create an internal friction where the majority turns on the minority. That is the same methodology employed by many coaches. When one player makes a mistake, the entire team does laps, because the team will take care of the player themselves.

Furthermore, others simply are ignorant of the fact that islam is not monolithic. The same ignorance exists among other non-european nations towards the west. Last, there are those who may believe that all muslims hold some time of responsibility because they have not recanted certain elements of Islamic scripture.

While I don't agree with any of those positions, nor your antecedent, it needed to be stated, IMO, that there is no logical connection between that and instantly labeling them as Xenophobes.

Craic
09-11-2010, 09:16 PM
The reason I am so torn up about this... is the precedent it sets.

If Christians started to get violent to the level of muslim terrorists, would our bible, holy days, Jesus, etc., then get the respect Islam demands and gets from the west? When certain behaviors are driven by reward, why are people so shocked when those behaviors continue?

If I wasn't a Christian, I would probably be burning a Koran every day, just as an exhibition of my freedom of speech. The reason I choose NOT to do it, is because of my Christian teaching.

silver & black
09-11-2010, 09:42 PM
I understand that one has the right to do it... just wish that people had the common sense to NOT do it.

Yeah... kinda like building a mosque near Ground Zero.

Vis
09-11-2010, 10:04 PM
Your consequent does not logically follow your antecedent in the highlight above. Xenophobes are people who are afraid or hates foreigners. The antecedent may simply be a belief that politically, to pressure all in a people group based on the actions of a few will create an internal friction where the majority turns on the minority. That is the same methodology employed by many coaches. When one player makes a mistake, the entire team does laps, because the team will take care of the player themselves.

Furthermore, others simply are ignorant of the fact that islam is not monolithic. The same ignorance exists among other non-european nations towards the west. Last, there are those who may believe that all muslims hold some time of responsibility because they have not recanted certain elements of Islamic scripture.

While I don't agree with any of those positions, nor your antecedent, it needed to be stated, IMO, that there is no logical connection between that and instantly labeling them as Xenophobes.

Good to be debating you again. xenophobia means fear of more that foreigners, it includes the foreign or the"other" I could just say that anyone who judges the man by the group is a pea wit Each man should be judged as he deserves.

Craic
09-11-2010, 10:12 PM
Good to be debating you again. xenophobia means fear of more that foreigners, it includes the foreign or the"other" I could just say that anyone who judges the man by the group is a pea wit Each man should be judged as he deserves.

You'll get no argument from me there. I just get nervous when buzz words are thrown around, as they tend to broadbrush things that aren't exactly true.

Here is a question though, if a group shouldn't be judged by a man in it, if the group seems to accept the man's actions, can it be assumed that the second man also accepts the actions of the first man? I think that is the heart of what is being argued here.

Personally, I don't think it is one group, and thus, is an illegitimate argument. But if I am wrong, then the above question speaks to the heart of the issue.

Wallace108
09-11-2010, 10:15 PM
If Christians started to get violent to the level of muslim terrorists, would our bible, holy days, Jesus, etc., then get the respect Islam demands and gets from the west? When certain behaviors are driven by reward, why are people so shocked when those behaviors continue?

WHOA!!! I guess you and I are closer on this topic than I thought.

venom
09-11-2010, 10:21 PM
Qur'an (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement."

Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them." No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Qur'an (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush.”

Wallace108
09-11-2010, 10:23 PM
Qur'an (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement."

Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them." No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Qur'an (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush.”


Ahhh, more words of wisdom from the "religion of peace."

Craic
09-11-2010, 10:41 PM
Qur'an (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement."

Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them." No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Qur'an (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush.”


Careful though.

I have seen people do the same with the Christian scriptures. Unless we know and understand the hermeneutics used, we really don't have the ability to understand the verses. In short, its called proof-texting. I can prove any point I want in the Christian bible by doing so... including rape, murder, terrorism, and even being a Browns fan. All of which are despicable before God.

Wallace108
09-11-2010, 10:50 PM
In short, its called proof-texting. I can prove any point I want in the Christian bible by doing so... including rape, murder, terrorism, and even being a Browns fan. All of which are despicable before God.

:toofunny:

That ends the debate for me. Game time is getting close, so debates will have to wait. Everyone be good to each other and remember, it's OK to respectfully disagree.

Vincent
09-11-2010, 11:43 PM
But I enjoy it so and there might just be hope that the ability to draw distinctions and hold complex thoughts will develop in them so the chest beating, irrational, group-think will fade.

And the KKK burns crosses because they are the true Christians. Extremists who claim a religion don't own it nor do all adherents to the religion being abused need to answer for the sins of the crazies.

The KKK uses the Bible to justify what they do. That doesn't mean the Bible should be burned and non-KKK Christians should be limited in where they can build a church because the KKK is evil.
You are a silver tongued devil Counselor, I’ll give you that. It’s most magnanimous of you to grant that while the terrorist arm of your party burns crosses we shouldn’t pan all Christians.

You know very well that there is no relationship whatsoever between the KKK and Christianity. But you paint a relationship that has never existed to subtly deceive. The KKK uses the Bible for nothing. Their “book” is the kloran.

Christians don’t burn crosses. satanists do. The cross is the pivot point of the eternal disposition of all humankind, because as you well know, it is the cross that defeated satan. It is your party that burns crosses both literally and figuratively and spits on Christianity at every opportunity because you know what the cross is and what it means to you. It should surprise nobody that it is your ilk that takes up the cause of islam, who stand equally guilty.

Your party did and does everything conceivable to suppress the black man. From the KKK to “Planned Parenthood” to the charlatans who deceive and steal from those poor blacks whose cause they supposedly champion, your party are the racists that lynched, cheated, aborted, and corralled black America into the sullen underclass so many are today. You destroyed their heritage of tight Christian families and reduced them to a destiny of ignorant dependency. You know the statistics – you created them. You and your colleagues should be very proud of the work you did so well.

The Counselor is well versed in these matters and knows precisely what he is saying and doing in the referenced quotes. But, as I said, he is a silver tongued devil.

SirHulka
09-12-2010, 12:33 AM
Pig blood.

Muslims consider pigs to be unclean. If a terrorist blows himself up killing 'infidels', then we should douse the body with pig blood. That makes him unclean, and unable to go to Paradise. That threat by Black Jack Pershing kept terrorist attacks out of the Phillipines for over 30 years.

zulater
09-12-2010, 09:51 AM
Pig blood.

Muslims consider pigs to be unclean. If a terrorist blows himself up killing 'infidels', then we should douse the body with pig blood. That makes him unclean, and unable to go to Paradise. That threat by Black Jack Pershing kept terrorist attacks out of the Phillipines for over 30 years.

Good idea!:salute:

I think rather than these idiots burning Korans what would make more sense is to burn the flag of any nation that enforces the harsher aspects of Sharia law. You stone an adulter, imprison gays, deny woman equal rights, I'm all for seeing your rag of a flag burned.