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LLT
04-11-2016, 01:34 PM
Steelers Draft: Apple, Alexander or Jackson
by Perry Biggerstaff
04/11/2016



As the 2016 NFL draft inches closer, there is a building anticipation as to whom the Steelers will take with their first round pick. Pittsburgh has hosted and visited with numerous prospects and it’s a virtual given that they will be looking to bolster the cornerback position.

Other positions have been suggested but, in truth, unless there is an extreme run on cornerbacks or unless a top 10 talent slides to #25, the Steelers WILL draft a cornerback in round one. Yes, we could use depth at defensive tackle. Yes, we could use a safety. But this draft will be deep with defensive tackles and the strength of this years safety class lies in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

We will draft a cornerback in the first round….but which one?

Jalen Ramsey is the best defensive back in this class and though he may be pegged as a cornerback by some teams, most boards will list him as a free safety. He is also a top 5 pick and the Steelers won’t even be within sniffing range of him. Vernon Hargreaves is the best true cornerback this year but wont make it past the top 15 picks. That leaves three potential cornerback prospects who all have a first round grade and have at least some chance of being available when it becomes the Steelers turn to pick: Eli Apple of Ohio state, Mackensie Alexander of Clemson, and William Jackson III of Houston.

Lets take an in-depth look at all three and look at why the Steelers may or may not draft them.


Read More@ http://stillcurtain.com/2016/04/11/steelers-draft-apple-alexander-or-jackson/

Psycho Ward 86
04-11-2016, 02:26 PM
If the front offices believes:

Apple can get the PI under control and reach his potential, Alexander can play zone, Jackson can stop having the yips in run support...then I say pick Jackson

I dont see that happening. After seeing things through even more the past couple days im flipping on Apple and Alexander. I'll take Apple, Alexander, Jackson in that order. And Andrew Billings and possibly Karl Joseph in front of all of those choices

steelreserve
04-11-2016, 04:37 PM
Alexander, Jackson, then Apple would be my preference, and honestly I would skip Apple in favor of another position if he were the only one of those three left. Alexander seems like the most complete player; Jackson is also pretty complete apart from the tackling issue, but with a cornerback that is something we can work with and much less of a deal-breaker than having problems in coverage. Apple has what is IMO a fatal flaw unless you have a DB coach who knows how to fix problems, and it is pretty obvious that we don't.

The "draft is deep at DT" argument doesn't carry much weight ... yes, there will be some decent players left in the second round, but the top-tier talent is going to be gone, and that's what we need. And the chance most likely won't come around again for several years.

If the choice was between a top CB like Alexander (or let's say Hargreaves) and a top DT like Billings or Robinson, that would be a hell of a choice to make, but I would be super-happy to have either one.

If it was between Alexander/Hargreaves and a Tier 1A defensive tackle like Butler or Kenny Clark, then take the CB and hope the DT is there in the next round.

If it's between a Tier 1A corner like Jackson/Apple and a top DT like Billings/Robinson, then take the DT no question.

Psycho Ward 86
04-11-2016, 04:56 PM
Alexander, Jackson, then Apple would be my preference, and honestly I would skip Apple in favor of another position if he were the only one of those three left. Alexander seems like the most complete player; Jackson is also pretty complete apart from the tackling issue, but with a cornerback that is something we can work with and much less of a deal-breaker than having problems in coverage. Apple has what is IMO a fatal flaw unless you have a DB coach who knows how to fix problems, and it is pretty obvious that we don't.

The "draft is deep at DT" argument doesn't carry much weight ... yes, there will be some decent players left in the second round, but the top-tier talent is going to be gone, and that's what we need. And the chance most likely won't come around again for several years.

If the choice was between a top CB like Alexander (or let's say Hargreaves) and a top DT like Billings or Robinson, that would be a hell of a choice to make, but I would be super-happy to have either one.

If it was between Alexander/Hargreaves and a Tier 1A defensive tackle like Butler or Kenny Clark, then take the CB and hope the DT is there in the next round.

If it's between a Tier 1A corner like Jackson/Apple and a top DT like Billings/Robinson, then take the DT no question.

whats Eli's fatal flaw?

st33lersguy
04-11-2016, 05:36 PM
Alexander, Jackson, Apple

teegre
04-11-2016, 05:39 PM
Alexander.... (big gap)... Artie Burns... (small gap)... Jackson... (smaller gap)... Apple

Born2Steel
04-11-2016, 05:47 PM
My order would be Jackson, then Apple, then Alexander. I saw 5-6 games with Jackson, 2-3 with Apple, 0 with Alexander.


Mayock has Apple, Jackson, Alexander.

teegre
04-11-2016, 05:52 PM
Mayock has Apple, Jackson, Alexander.

When I read this, I imagined Mike Mayock pouring cereal on Alexander's** head.


**(terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day)

Dwinsgames
04-11-2016, 06:05 PM
Apple poor tackler , not good in run support , grabby in coverage when he loses his man do to a miss step or looking back for the ball and very raw .... not exactly a Steelers style player and would offer very little help this year


Jackson is shy in the contact department , took him half a season to log his first tackle in run support again not a guy who plays Steeler football

Alexander willing tackler , ability to shadow teams best wideout and stay in their hip pocket and contest the catch and has experience in zone coverage schemes ..

seems really clear to me who should go off the board first between the three and only 1 of them is what the Steelers look for from their corners .

truth be told I think they are looking for the BPA at S -DT in the first two rounds and the corner will come later 3rd-4th ..

steelreserve
04-11-2016, 07:53 PM
whats Eli's fatal flaw?


Basically that he makes bad mistakes in coverage often enough that people have been noticing it, and then compensates by holding. So unless he gets those issues fixed, he'll get burned often and/or be a pass interference machine in the NFL. Like I said, someone else might be able to fix those issues and make a solid NFL player out of him, but given our track record I'm fairly certain we won't. So it would be about the most frustrating, disappointing first-round pick you can imagine.

With your first-round pick, I think it's always preferable not to select the guy with the big "Needs Work" tattoo on his forehead if you have a choice.

pczach
04-11-2016, 09:23 PM
I think Alexander is the best right now and is most capable of playing quickly. He's the safest pick.

I think Jackson is a really fast guy that looks great on paper, but is not physical enough against the run, and still gave up a lot of yards in a defense-challenged conference. Would be my third choice of the three here.

I think Apple has some things to work on, but has the physical tools and I believe his weaknesses can be corrected when football becomes a full-time job and he works on his craft. The finished product has a chance to be the best of this group. I believe he has huge upside.

Psycho Ward 86
04-11-2016, 10:15 PM
Apple poor tackler , not good in run support , grabby in coverage when he loses his man do to a miss step or looking back for the ball and very raw .... not exactly a Steelers style player and would offer very little help this year


Jackson is shy in the contact department , took him half a season to log his first tackle in run support again not a guy who plays Steeler football

Alexander willing tackler , ability to shadow teams best wideout and stay in their hip pocket and contest the catch and has experience in zone coverage schemes ..

seems really clear to me who should go off the board first between the three and only 1 of them is what the Steelers look for from their corners .

truth be told I think they are looking for the BPA at S -DT in the first two rounds and the corner will come later 3rd-4th ..

what? Apple looks like a great tackler on film and scouting reports agree. for the record, when i say Jackson has the yips in run tackling, i mean more along the lines of he doesnt end up making the tackle rather than doesnt try. watch some of his games and it seems like he just needs to wrap up and keep his head up.

- - - Updated - - -


Basically that he makes bad mistakes in coverage often enough that people have been noticing it, and then compensates by holding. So unless he gets those issues fixed, he'll get burned often and/or be a pass interference machine in the NFL. Like I said, someone else might be able to fix those issues and make a solid NFL player out of him, but given our track record I'm fairly certain we won't. So it would be about the most frustrating, disappointing first-round pick you can imagine.

With your first-round pick, I think it's always preferable not to select the guy with the big "Needs Work" tattoo on his forehead if you have a choice.

good point about our track record. come to think of it, i feel like we might be best off taking the corner who needs the least amount of coaching, and that guy is definitely Alexander. He would start immediately out of the gates for us with Golson in the slot and Gay outside. Unless Cockrell grows into the same Cockrell that took it to Kelvin benjamin and Mike Evans in college

Dwinsgames
04-12-2016, 08:10 AM
what? Apple looks like a great tackler on film and scouting reports agree. for the record, when i say Jackson has the yips in run tackling, i mean more along the lines of he doesnt end up making the tackle rather than doesnt try. watch some of his games and it seems like he just needs to wrap up and keep his head up.


good tacklers do not get drug 18 yards downfield ( see Penn state game Eli Apple )

Taking 6 weeks to log your first tackle in run support is more than " the yips " to me ( Jackson )

LLT
04-12-2016, 08:31 AM
I would have to give the edge to Alexander...but only because he is more ready to contribute immediately....HOWEVER...I believe Apple has the potential to be the best CB of the three (eventually), just needs tweaked.

I still believe that the way this draft seems to be unfolding...we will take a CB in round 1. But as I said....if a top player slides...or there is a run on CB's...then I think we will go safety or DT.

I think our first four rounds could be something like:

1) CB... Mackensie Alexander
2) Safety...Keanu Neal (if still on the board) or Karl Joseph
3) DT... Javon Hargrave
4) CB... D.J. White

LLT
04-12-2016, 08:51 AM
good tacklers do not get drug 18 yards downfield ( see Penn state game Eli Apple )




One play doesn't define a player. Apple is a willing and aggressive tackler. His problems lie more in being OVER-AGGRESSIVE....which sometime leads to bad angles, poor timing, and poor balance. Those are things that defensive coordinators know can be ironed out with young players with just a focus on discipline and technigue.

If Apple was hesitant or had problems "seeing the field"...I would agree. But thats obviously not the case.

Dwinsgames
04-12-2016, 09:04 AM
“For Jackson III, he was sort of the “Where’s Waldo” when it came to run support,” Thomas wrote recently (http://nfldraftreport.sportsblog.com/posts/14394009/the-nfl-draft-report-s--by-the-numbers--series---before-an-nfl-general-manager-drafts-a-cornerback-in-the-first-round--they-might-want-to-check-out-these-numbers.html). “He did not make his first tackle in run support until the seventh game on the 2015 schedule and three of his five tackles vs. ball carriers did not come until the final two appearances on Houston’s 14-game schedule.”

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/houston-cb-william-jackson-iii-wowed-steelers-hc-mike-tomlin-attended-pro-day/

Dwinsgames
04-12-2016, 09:15 AM
One play doesn't define a player. Apple is a willing and aggressive tackler. His problems lie more in being OVER-AGGRESSIVE....which sometime leads to bad angles, poor timing, and poor balance. Those are things that defensive coordinators know can be ironed out with young players with just a focus on discipline and technigue.

If Apple was hesitant or had problems "seeing the field"...I would agree. But thats obviously not the case.


obviously 1 play does not define a career , but we have to analyze what we have available to make determinations and in doing so we see this as something that not only can happen , but did .. it raises questions that otherwise would not be there and you have to account for that . is it /was it a fluke or is there something more ?

Apple does have tools , not trying to make it a dog the guy posting but he is raw in many ways and I must ask myself a couple things before I would be willing to commit to selecting him if I where the GM

does he check all the boxes of what I require for my first round pick ... beyond the normal boxes size/speed/talent/athletic ability /character

1) ability to cover within our scheme without being a penalty machine
2) ability to make the field as a rookie without injury mandating it vs the other roster candidates
3) is he a long term solution
4) does he have the mental capacity to thrive in the league
5) can he help me in run support without being a liability because corner is more than coverage on this team

I am not sure he checks all those boxes

LLT
04-12-2016, 09:23 AM
does he check all the boxes of what I require for my first round pick ... beyond the normal boxes size/speed/talent/athletic ability /character

1) ability to cover within our scheme without being a penalty machine
2) ability to make the field as a rookie without injury mandating it vs the other roster candidates
3) is he a long term solution
4) does he have the mental capacity to thrive in the league
5) can he help me in run support without being a liability because corner is more than coverage on this team

I am not sure he checks all those boxes

I would say that he meets all the above...except #1 ...which is an arbitrary factor since there is no legitimate way to know how he will play in our sheme until he actually PLAYS in our scheme.

As I said..its probably a mute point because he shouldnt be there at #25. But if he is...we will take him.

Born2Steel
04-12-2016, 09:39 AM
I get the thread topic.....That said, this narrows the field a bit. I don't believe we go CB in the 1st at all. This is just such a deep defensive draft. I would LOVE to find the next Rod Woodson this year, just don't think it happens in the 1st.

LLT
04-12-2016, 10:03 AM
I get the thread topic.....That said, this narrows the field a bit. I don't believe we go CB in the 1st at all. This is just such a deep defensive draft. I would LOVE to find the next Rod Woodson this year, just don't think it happens in the 1st.

I dont think there has been a Rod Woodson since.....Rod Woodson.

Dwinsgames
04-12-2016, 10:20 AM
I do not believe we draft a CB in round 1 , do not see much difference in guys who very well may be available in rd2 than what we could expect to get in rd1 .

I think the brain trust will recognize this and that the difference a rookie will make at CB vs a top S prospect can make or DT for that matter since there is not much in terms of depth at the pos for said rookie to have to over take to be the starter ... Beat out Robbie Golden or beat out McCullers and that rookie is the starter . less talent on the roster at those spots of roster weakness and both as great or greater team need .


doubt a rookie beats out William Gay at CB
doubt a rookie beats out Cockrell at this point
we essentially have a rookie CB now drafted in round 2 that knows the playbook just hasn't had the physical reps yet in Golson so he is 99% sure of the slot job if he is anything close to what they thought they drafted .

Golden has had 5 years to lay claim to a starting job and has just a handful of injury forced starts so not unlikely a 1st rounder there doesn't unseat him

McCullers has only seen limited reps in two years so he is no lock to start either and a top flight rookie would have a very good shot at unseating his penciled in starting job

I think we draft a CB but just do not see it rd1 unless a gift from God falls into our laps

LLT
04-12-2016, 10:45 AM
doubt a rookie beats out William Gay at CB
doubt a rookie beats out Cockrell at this point
we essentially have a rookie CB now drafted in round 2 that knows the playbook just hasn't had the physical reps yet in Golson so he is 99% sure of the slot job if he is anything close to what they thought they drafted .



Not sure how you worked out the logic behind saying that a 1st round rated Cornerback prospect can't beat:

1. A 31 year old cornerback with limited speed and height.
2. A 4th round pick who has played sparingly with two different teams in two years
3. A 2nd round pick who has yet to ever step on the field due to injury.

What could possibly be the basis for that assessment?


If Alexander (who I would love to be our pick) was drafted...he would be the best defensive back on this team by a LARGE margin.

Dwinsgames
04-12-2016, 10:59 AM
Not sure how you worked out the logic behind saying that a 1st round rated Cornerback prospect can't beat:

1. A 31 year old cornerback with limited speed and height.
2. A 4th round pick who has played sparingly with two different teams in two years
3. A 2nd round pick who has yet to ever step on the field due to injury.

What could possibly be the basis for that assessment?


If Alexander (who I would love to be our pick) was drafted...he would be the best defensive back on this team by a LARGE margin.

1) Gay was clearly our best CB a year ago so doubt your best goes to the bench when most downs you are playing 3 of them

2) Cockrell is loved by Tomlin and we seen how Tomlin reacts to players he is fond of with Blake ( and Cockrell is a better player than Blake )

3) Golson was a high pick for a reason ( they coveted him perhaps to much so ) he knows the play book so has an advantage and is a turnover machine or at least was in College and this defense lacks turnover capacity

the assessment is made based on gut feeling and the history of the organization starting rookies being what it is .

so best case scenario of a rookie getting a chance to start would come from the weakest portion of the roster by default and that in my opinion is DT and S based on the lack of a true incumbent starter /starters in Golden and McCullers

for the record I am a fan of Alexander and would love to have him too , just do not see it happening

Mojouw
04-12-2016, 11:10 AM
If history is any precedent, then it will go down like this:

1. Whoever the Steelers have in their top tier of CB's are off the board by their pick in the first.
2. They will claim they see DL as a "deep" tier of players. Edge rusher - not so much.
3. They take a "falling" edge player in someone like Spence or Floyd.
4. In the second round they get their DL guy.
5. They don't take a corner until round 4 or 5 and gamble on developing a guy like Hall out of Northern Iowa. Seriously, just find a tall, athletic, fast Cb that is super raw and has a 3-5 round grade on him. That is who they will draft. It almost always is.
6. Mayne they go crazy and try to snag someone like Cyrus Jones in the 3rd.

LLT
04-12-2016, 11:28 AM
1) Gay was clearly our best CB a year ago so doubt your best goes to the bench when most downs you are playing 3 of them

2) Cockrell is loved by Tomlin and we seen how Tomlin reacts to players he is fond of with Blake ( and Cockrell is a better player than Blake )

3) Golson was a high pick for a reason ( they coveted him perhaps to much so ) he knows the play book so has an advantage and is a turnover machine or at least was in College and this defense lacks turnover capacity

the assessment is made based on gut feeling and the history of the organization starting rookies being what it is .

so best case scenario of a rookie getting a chance to start would come from the weakest portion of the roster by default and that in my opinion is DT and S based on the lack of a true incumbent starter /starters in Golden and McCullers

for the record I am a fan of Alexander and would love to have him too , just do not see it happening


I think Steelers fans have become used to medicority.

Gay was the best cornerback on a team with a VERY bad secondary, so "best" is a pretty arbitrary marker. On most teams he is a slot corner...and now an older slot corner. I would guess that Golson is actually Gay's eventual replacement. At this point in his career Gay is a stop-gap player and ready to be upgraded.

I actually do believe that Cockrell could come into his own and will eventually man one side of the defense. I dont think he is a #1 corner...but I do believe that the plan is for him to see more playing time.

A first round CB would be the future on the other side.

We desperately need talent at cornerback ...and the cornerback crop this year is NOT deep. However there are several safety prospect with 2nd round grades that could start as rookies.

This is one of the deepest DT classes that I can remember...I fully expect that we go CB and Safety in the first two rounds and wait to pick up a VERY good Dt in the 3rd or even 4th round.

Dwinsgames
04-12-2016, 11:40 AM
I think Steelers fans have become used to medicority.

Gay was the best cornerback on a team with a VERY bad secondary, so "best" is a pretty arbitrary marker. On most teams he is a slot corner...and now an older slot corner. I would guess that Golson is actually Gay's eventual replacement. At this point in his career Gay is a stop-gap player and ready to be upgraded.

I actually do believe that Cockrell could come into his own and will eventually man one side of the defense. I dont think he is a #1 corner...but I do believe that the plan is for him to see more playing time.

A first round CB would be the future on the other side.

We desperately need talent at cornerback ...and the cornerback crop this year is NOT deep. However there are several safety prospect with 2nd round grades that could start as rookies.

This is one of the deepest DT classes that I can remember...I fully expect that we go CB and Safety in the first two rounds and wait to pick up a VERY good Dt in the 3rd or even 4th round.

opinions aside ...

not much I disagree with but I do find the bold amusing considering most people consider us spoiled fans

Born2Steel
04-12-2016, 11:54 AM
I think Steelers fans have become used to medicority.

Gay was the best cornerback on a team with a VERY bad secondary, so "best" is a pretty arbitrary marker. On most teams he is a slot corner...and now an older slot corner. I would guess that Golson is actually Gay's eventual replacement. At this point in his career Gay is a stop-gap player and ready to be upgraded.

I actually do believe that Cockrell could come into his own and will eventually man one side of the defense. I dont think he is a #1 corner...but I do believe that the plan is for him to see more playing time.

A first round CB would be the future on the other side.

We desperately need talent at cornerback ...and the cornerback crop this year is NOT deep. However there are several safety prospect with 2nd round grades that could start as rookies.

This is one of the deepest DT classes that I can remember...I fully expect that we go CB and Safety in the first two rounds and wait to pick up a VERY good Dt in the 3rd or even 4th round.

Steelers fans are NOT used to mediocrity in our secondary. We are very much used to getting pressure on the QB. Thus, why we play off man coverage and zone. The emphasis, IMO, will be to get another DL with pass rushing skills to play with and/or sub out with Tuitt and Heyward, also will be an edge rusher early on to pair with Dupree. This makes sense since JJ and James will both likely be gone by this time next year.
It was not that long ago when TP43 and Ryan Clark were considered one of the best safety tandems in the league. Our LBs play coverage AND QB pressure depending on the situation. The talent pool at CB has not dropped off that much, if any, since it has ever been.
Now, would we love to get that CB that takes half the field away ala Prime Time Sanders? Hell YES!! But we won't reach for it when our 'formula' has been proven successful. 3HCs since 1970, this team builds with patience. If our front office sees their guy there at 25 who they believe will be our next Rod.....all bets are off. But I don't see him in this draft at all. I wish I did.

LLT
04-12-2016, 12:52 PM
Steelers fans are NOT used to mediocrity in our secondary. We are very much used to getting pressure on the QB. Thus, why we play off man coverage and zone. The emphasis, IMO, will be to get another DL with pass rushing skills to play with and/or sub out with Tuitt and Heyward, also will be an edge rusher early on to pair with Dupree. This makes sense since JJ and James will both likely be gone by this time next year.


I am not saying that we cant use depth or even an upgrade at DT. In fact I FIRMLY believe that we can find a VERY good tackle as late as the 3rd-4th round in this particular draft and I believe we should be looking at those prospects.

However....we only spend about 25% of our defensive snaps in a base defense...and a good portion of our snaps have 5 defensive backs on the field.

As I have said before...the future of our defensive backfield appears to be Golson eventually taking the place of an aging William Gay...Cockrell has the first crack of playing on one side of the field...but we do NOT have a legitimate #1 cornerback on this team to cover the other side.

A first round DT who wont be on the field for 75% of the snaps and especially not on passing downs..doesnt help the secondary as much as a legit 1st round graded CB.

teegre
04-12-2016, 12:58 PM
I would LOVE to find the next Rod Woodson

I'd be fine with the next Ike Taylor.

hawaiiansteeler
04-12-2016, 01:01 PM
After Jalen Ramsey, Vernon Hargreaves, Eli Apple, there's a drop off in CB market

Apr 11, 2016
Jeremy Fowler
ESPN Staff Writer

http://a2.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2016%2F0408%2Fr72144_1296x518_5%2 D2.jpg&w=1006&h=402&scale=crop&location=origin

Ohio State's Eli Apple is one of the top three cornerbacks available in the NFL draft. The Steelers would be fortunate to get him when the pick at No. 25

An informal poll of league evaluators of the 2016 NFL draft indicates a dropoff in cornerback quality after the top-three players, creating a potentially difficult decision for the Pittsburgh Steelers and others looking for cover help late in the first round.

The consensus is Florida State’s Jalen Ramsey, Florida’s Vernon Hargreaves and Ohio State’s Eli Apple are a cut above the rest. Two of seven evaluators polled say Apple is a better prospect than Hargreaves. This suggests Apple likely wouldn't be available at No. 25, where Pittsburgh picks.

These evaluators (NFL coaches, scouts and execs) provided their top-five corners on condition of anonymity. Using an inverse point system (five points for a first-place vote, one point for fifth place), here are the results. A few provided a sixth corner, which can work as a fifth-place tie.

The sentiment from many: After the top two or three, the order will vary wildly, often depending on what teams need for their defense.

Jalen Ramsey, FSU: 34 points

Vernon Hargreaves, Florida: 27 points

Eli Apple, Ohio State: 18 points

William Jackson III, Houston: 8 points

Artie Burns, Miami: 7 points

Kyle Fuller, Virginia Tech: 6 points

Mackensie Alexander, Clemson: 4 points

Xavien Howard, Baylor: 2 points

Cyrus Jones, Alabama: 1 point

A few thoughts from those conversations:

Jackson and Burns are both considered high-ceiling athletes with good size but a bit raw at the position for NFL standards. One evaluator considers Jackson a third-down corner his rookie year, but he can play inside/out and has the potential to grow into an every-down corner.

Alexander can and should be a good player, but many give the edge to Jackson, Burns and Fuller based on size and playmaking ability.

Many really like Fuller’s 2014 tape and his overall instincts. He has adequate but not great speed. His injured knee is the biggest question mark. Otherwise, he might be a first-round lock.

Varied opinions deepen the draft intrigue every year. Example: One evaluator said Hargreaves is a better natural cover corner than Ramsey. Another says Apple’s size and speed wins any tiebreaker with Hargreaves.

Howard had a sub-par pro day but some are OK with that because they like his 2015 performance.

None of these guys has major character red flags. All solid for the most part.

My take: If the Steelers have targeted a specific corner -- and many believe it to be Jackson -- then the order doesn't matter. Preference does. But questions remain with most corners outside of Ramsey and Hargreaves. Teams must know whether any perceived weaknesses are manageable.

In last year’s draft, the top-three cornerbacks were off the board by the time the Steelers picked 22nd overall. They chose pass rusher Bud Dupree over cornerback Byron Jones. With the demand on good cornerback play increasing league wide, they’ll likely face a similar situation this year, especially as the Redskins (No. 21 overall) and Bengals (No. 24) needing help in this area, too.

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/18351/theres-dropoff-in-nfl-draft-cornerback-market-after-jalen-ramsey-vernon-hargreaves-and-eli-apple

Dwinsgames
04-12-2016, 01:14 PM
I'd be fine with the next Ike Taylor.

I'll take it .... I will even toss in an additional 7th round pick if he comes with hands

teegre
04-12-2016, 01:20 PM
I'll take it .... I will even toss in an additional 7th round pick if he comes with hands

If Ike had had hands, he would have been a perennial All Pro.

LLT
04-12-2016, 01:32 PM
After Jalen Ramsey, Vernon Hargreaves, Eli Apple, there's a drop off in CB market

Apr 11, 2016
Jeremy Fowler
ESPN Staff Writer

http://a2.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2016%2F0408%2Fr72144_1296x518_5%2 D2.jpg&w=1006&h=402&scale=crop&location=origin

Ohio State's Eli Apple is one of the top three cornerbacks available in the NFL draft. The Steelers would be fortunate to get him when the pick at No. 25

An informal poll of league evaluators of the 2016 NFL draft indicates a dropoff in cornerback quality after the top-three players, creating a potentially difficult decision for the Pittsburgh Steelers and others looking for cover help late in the first round.

The consensus is Florida State’s Jalen Ramsey, Florida’s Vernon Hargreaves and Ohio State’s Eli Apple are a cut above the rest. Two of seven evaluators polled say Apple is a better prospect than Hargreaves. This suggests Apple likely wouldn't be available at No. 25, where Pittsburgh picks.

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/18351/theres-dropoff-in-nfl-draft-cornerback-market-after-jalen-ramsey-vernon-hargreaves-and-eli-apple

I agree with this on most points.

I have Ramsey, Hargreaves, and Apple as top #15 picks. Alexander and Jackson or are #23 and #29 on my big board. I have Artie Burnes at #38 which puts him right in that "dead" spot that makes him a reach for the 1st round and probably gone by the time we pick in the 2nd.

I rank Alexander higher that most boards that I have seen...but I think he is technically sound enough to warrant the rating. I would rather have a 5'10 great cornerback than a 6'1 good cornerback.

Born2Steel
04-12-2016, 01:35 PM
I am not saying that we cant use depth or even an upgrade at DT. In fact I FIRMLY believe that we can find a VERY good tackle as late as the 3rd-4th round in this particular draft and I believe we should be looking at those prospects.

However....we only spend about 25% of our defensive snaps in a base defense...and a good portion of our snaps have 5 defensive backs on the field.

As I have said before...the future of our defensive backfield appears to be Golson eventually taking the place of an aging William Gay...Cockrell has the first crack of playing on one side of the field...but we do NOT have a legitimate #1 cornerback on this team to cover the other side.

A first round DT who wont be on the field for 75% of the snaps and especially not on passing downs..doesnt help the secondary as much as a legit 1st round graded CB.

I think why I have such an issue with taking a CB at 25 is not based on need at all. Whoever we take at CB, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, whatever round, will not start over Gay, Cockrell, or Golson. That rationale comes from past experience as a Steelers fan. We should be in 'win now' mode. This team is so damn close to #7 you can smell the trophy polish. We need to draft an immediate impact player at 25. That just doesn't happen at CB. I have been wrong before and expect to be wrong again, but that is very much my gut feeling.

teegre
04-12-2016, 01:36 PM
I would rather have a 5'10 great cornerback than a 6'1 good cornerback.

^^^THIS^^^

Dwinsgames
04-12-2016, 01:45 PM
remember to form your own opinions based on games you have watched , draft "gurus" are not perfect in fact far from it .

we see articles all the time comparing prospects but at the end of the day its still just a guess because none of these kids have played a down of PRO football where it is the best of the best .


this is a prime example of such an effort and we all know how he turned out ...

"Much like the Auburn staff did with Jason Campbell, LSU coaches patiently waited for Russell to develop. Their patience paid off in 2005, as Russell wrested the starting job away from Matt Flynn. Most experts now regard Russell as the most physically gifted quarterback to wear the LSU uniform.
The talented junior has what many believe is the strongest arm in college football. He can throw the ball the length of the field and put on an impressive performance prior to the 2006 Sugar Bowl -- while seated on the turf, he threw the ball 40 yards. Under the guidance of offensive coordinator Jimbo Fisher, Russell developed a keen understanding of the game and clock management. He went on to compile a 25-4 record as a starter, the third-best record by a starting quarterback in school history.
Russell and his favorite target, receiver Dwayne Bowe, combined to become the most prolific pass-catch scoring tandem in school history. The duo connected on 23 touchdowns. Russell leaves LSU as the school's second-ranked passer with a 61.86 completion percentage and 52 touchdown passes. He is just the third player in school history to throw for more than 6,000 yards in his career and the first to lead the team to at least 10 victories in consecutive seasons. Russell also proved to be a heroic passer; he rallied the team to eight victories after trailing in the fourth quarter or overtime.
Russell was regarded as one of the nation's top-rated quarterbacks while playing at Williamson High School. He was a consensus top-five ranked, pro-style quarterback by every major recruiting publication and was named to the prestigious Parade All-American team. In 2002, he was rated the fourth-best quarterback prospect in the country by College Football News, named Alabama's Mr. Football and Super Prep Dixie Offensive Player of the Year".

Read More @http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/420059

ALLD
04-12-2016, 02:04 PM
Steelers better not muff this pick. If there is any question on the quality of the CB in the first round, they should go DE instead and save CB for pick #2.

Mojouw
04-12-2016, 02:29 PM
I'd be fine with the next Ike Taylor.

Yup. That is all this team needs.

Psycho Ward 86
04-12-2016, 03:39 PM
“For Jackson III, he was sort of the “Where’s Waldo” when it came to run support,” Thomas wrote recently (http://nfldraftreport.sportsblog.com/posts/14394009/the-nfl-draft-report-s--by-the-numbers--series---before-an-nfl-general-manager-drafts-a-cornerback-in-the-first-round--they-might-want-to-check-out-these-numbers.html). “He did not make his first tackle in run support until the seventh game on the 2015 schedule and three of his five tackles vs. ball carriers did not come until the final two appearances on Houston’s 14-game schedule.”

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/houston-cb-william-jackson-iii-wowed-steelers-hc-mike-tomlin-attended-pro-day/

yes ive seen this article, even posted it in response to someone else's evaluation. i never said Jackson is a good tackler either. i just said he needs to wrap up. watch the film and it doesnt necessarily appear to be shying from contact. he needs to form up and breakdown before making the tackle more than anything and thats more coachable than a dude who is just straight up terrified to tackle.

its kind of like equally evaluating 2 receivers with bad hands, one drops balls because he tries to take off before securing the catch and doesnt focus long enough (but at least is able to hands catch otherwise). the other one just stares down passes and lets footballs pop him in the chest and just cant catch at all. theres a difference imo

- - - Updated - - -


I agree with this on most points.

I have Ramsey, Hargreaves, and Apple as top #15 picks. Alexander and Jackson or are #23 and #29 on my big board. I have Artie Burnes at #38 which puts him right in that "dead" spot that makes him a reach for the 1st round and probably gone by the time we pick in the 2nd.

I rank Alexander higher that most boards that I have seen...but I think he is technically sound enough to warrant the rating. I would rather have a 5'10 great cornerback than a 6'1 good cornerback.

do you think Alexander can play zone as well as he plays man at the next level? thats really my only somewhat glaring question mark on him

hawaiiansteeler
04-12-2016, 04:44 PM
I rank Alexander higher that most boards that I have seen...but I think he is technically sound enough to warrant the rating. I would rather have a 5'10 great cornerback than a 6'1 good cornerback.

the thing that continues to bother me about Alexander is he had ZERO interceptions in college, how can you be considered a great CB when you never make even one interception?

and if he couldn't make any against college QBs and WRs, how will he be able to do it against pros?

steelreserve
04-12-2016, 04:53 PM
the thing that continues to bother me about Alexander is he had ZERO interceptions in college, how can you be considered a great CB when you never make even one interception?

and if he couldn't make any against college QBs and WRs, how will he be able to do it against pros?


Baby steps. First let's start with "Not leaving guys wide open way down the field," and then worry about how many interceptions we have.

hawaiiansteeler
04-12-2016, 05:03 PM
Baby steps. First let's start with "Not leaving guys wide open way down the field," and then worry about how many interceptions we have.

true, very good point.

but he's not going to be a "great" 5'10" CB if he doesn't ever make any interceptions. it's what kept Ike Taylor from being an All-Pro during his career...

Dwinsgames
04-12-2016, 05:51 PM
true, very good point.

but he's not going to be a "great" 5'10" CB if he doesn't ever make any interceptions. it's what kept Ike Taylor from being an All-Pro during his career...

while this is true , he honestly did not have a ton of opportunities for picks like most do .. was not targeted much and shined when he was giving up a very low completion percentage against .


my biggest question is how well and how quickly would he adjust to the tackle the catch approach we seem to still have employed . we can talk great cover corners all day but until we step back from the current approach we simply will not see many picks no matter who is in the secondary . big cushions kill chances at making plays on the ball takes all the time a DB has that the ball is in the air to close on the target ( with exception to deep balls )

Born2Steel
04-12-2016, 05:59 PM
“For Jackson III, he was sort of the “Where’s Waldo” when it came to run support,” Thomas wrote recently (http://nfldraftreport.sportsblog.com/posts/14394009/the-nfl-draft-report-s--by-the-numbers--series---before-an-nfl-general-manager-drafts-a-cornerback-in-the-first-round--they-might-want-to-check-out-these-numbers.html). “He did not make his first tackle in run support until the seventh game on the 2015 schedule and three of his five tackles vs. ball carriers did not come until the final two appearances on Houston’s 14-game schedule.”

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/houston-cb-william-jackson-iii-wowed-steelers-hc-mike-tomlin-attended-pro-day/

You know who else was terrible when it came to run support? Neon Deion Sanders. I would NOT call Jackson III, or any other CB in this draft, the next Sanders. And, I know what is expected of a Steelers CB, so I do understand and agree with the point. Just saying...what if?

hawaiiansteeler
04-12-2016, 06:04 PM
PFF SCOUTING REPORT: MACKENSIE ALEXANDER, CB, CLEMSON

Here is the PFF draft profile for Clemson’s Mackensie Alexander, which incorporates PFF’s college grades and scouting intel from our team of analysts.

Position fit:
Best as a man-cover corner, despite his relative lack of size.

Stat to know:
Allowed just 33 percent of passes into his coverage to be caught in 2015, best in the draft class.

What he does best:
• Matches receivers very well, including players with impressive size and speed. Didn’t allow more than four catches in a single game all season

• Plays bigger than he is. Measured at just 5-foot-10-inches, 190-pounds, but looks like a 6-foot corner on tape at times.

• Smooth mover, could transition well and live with receivers. Criticized for not getting interceptions, but press-man corners rarely get many picks. His game was more about preventing receptions, which he did very well.

• Can come up and tackle well in the run game or against short passes. Often the first man at the ball when playing deep.

Biggest concern:
• Less comfortable in zone schemes and seems to struggle to change direction at times reacting to a receiver’s pattern when he doesn’t have his hands on them.

• Coverage grade was only above-average, but was hung out to dry a little by Clemson’s coverages that often left him isolated with no underneath help or safety over the top, leading to easy completions underneath in off-coverage.

• Height is an issue for some NFL teams, who simply don’t believe short, small corners can play against NFL wide receivers. Will be passed over or ignored entirely by some teams because of this.

• Can be beaten at times, and coverage numbers flatter his play over the last two seasons. Big plays were left on the field by poor offensive execution—likely won’t be at the next level.

Bottom line:
The self-proclaimed best cornerback in the draft, Alexander is a player whose stock is all over the place. Anybody criticizing him for zero college interceptions is missing the point entirely, but there are enough concerns about his play and size to prevent him from being a surefire top-10 pick. Still, Alexander should be a solid first-round player.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/03/22/draft-pff-scouting-report-mackensie-alexander-cb-clemson/

st33lersguy
04-12-2016, 08:13 PM
Alexander is definitely my first option among CBs. Best cover guy and most physical guy

Mojouw
04-12-2016, 09:56 PM
true, very good point.

but he's not going to be a "great" 5'10" CB if he doesn't ever make any interceptions. it's what kept Ike Taylor from being an All-Pro during his career...

Other than having Dwight Stone level hands, Taylor was the PERFECT CB for the Steelers system. A monster in run support - I don't really ever remember Taylor not holding his own on the edge. Tackled the catch well. And he basically was the untalked about shutdown corner of his era. If he could've caught even 50% of the balls he got his hands on, he might have been talked about the best of his time. Maybe I am letting my fandom run away from me here, but Taylor was really freaking good.

pczach
04-13-2016, 05:31 AM
Cornerback has always been the most difficult position to evaluate for me.

At so may positions in football, when you move to the NFL there are so many great athletes that they get overwhelmed by the talent level. However, no position is more affected by the move than cornerbacks. While players at other positions are reacting to defenses or offenses, and playing against schemes, cornerbacks are very often competing directly against incredible athletes at the wide receiver position. They are easily exposed playing in space against elite players that can expose all their weaknesses.

It's also hard to see everything you need to see in college because of the lack of teams running NFL offenses in college. Most don't see elaborate route trees by opposing offenses with great throwing quarterbacks. That's why their flaws in coverage are so difficult to figure out, and why many just don't work out at the NFL level.

Most of the time, you have to project what you think they will turn into based on physical skills because they haven't developed all the techniques and knowledge they need to learn at the next level. Plus, confidence is such an important part of playing cornerback. Most good corners in college don't get destroyed in college. When they get to the NFL, all of them are going to get exposed and eaten alive by NFL wide receivers at times. Which guys are able to keep their swagger, overcome it, and continue learning and improving.

That's why teams often get picks at this position wrong. There are so many unknown variables.

Texasteel
04-13-2016, 08:09 AM
The #1 job of a cb is to keep the receiver from catching the ball. I think Alexander has show, in collage the he can do this. We will have to wait and see if he can do this in the pros. I believe we have a cb coming of an injury that can make a QB pay for a mistake. I believe Alexander can do the job when the QB does not make a mistake and makes a good throw to a receiver that has ran a good route. That's what we need right now guys.