OLB A Position Of Need Not To Be Overlooked

[polamalubeast]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/04/olb-position-need-not-overlooked/

[Psycho Ward 86]

which is why im surprised no one talks about OLB prospects around here. I think Shaq Lawson and Shilique Calhoun should be in the conversation for the 1st pick

[BlackAndGold]

Draft Billings and they don't have to worry about an OLB, they'll just play a front with Heyward, Tuitt, Billings, Dupree

[st33lersguy]

Not keen on yet another linebacker in the first round especially with a lack of depth in the secondary and d-line. I have been pounding DB or DL in round 1 for quite some time now this offseason and will continue to do so until the draft

[Psycho Ward 86]

Not keen on yet another linebacker in the first round especially with a lack of depth in the secondary and d-line. I have been pounding DB or DL in round 1 for quite some time now this offseason and will continue to do so until the draft

You could easily argue that OLB is one of the 2 thinnest positions on this team.

I think a lot of people got enamored by us being top 5 in sacks. I remember reading a long time ago that despite being top 5 in sacks, we were like bottom 5 in pressures which is whats actually important.

Shilique Calhoun is a great player that will definitely be there at 25. He should at least be considered, unless a guy like Billings or Hargreaves is still there.

Anything can happen. I remember a DT on the vikings was supposed to be a lock for a top 5 pick and he went in like the mid 20's

[hawaiiansteeler]

Draft Billings and they don't have to worry about an OLB, they'll just play a front with Heyward, Tuitt, Billings, Dupree

that sounds really good to me, we can give Deebo some snaps from the RDE position too...

[steelreserve]

You could easily argue that OLB is one of the 2 thinnest positions on this team.

I wouldn't say that. I think we have the potential to have one very good pass rusher in Dupree, a Clark Haggans-level guy in Moats, two rotational players in Harrison and Jones, and an intriguing prospect in Chickillo. That's all you need in the immediate short term.

Of course, that's if they had three competent linemen in front of them instead of two good players trying to fake that there are three. Until we have a DL that is solid ALL the way across, the OLBs will keep not living up to expectations and it is just like continuing to throw stacks of $100 bills in the fire, only with draft picks.



I think a lot of people got enamored by us being top 5 in sacks. I remember reading a long time ago that despite being top 5 in sacks, we were like bottom 5 in pressures which is whats actually important.

You got that right. Figure any team is going to get a minimum of 25-30 sacks a season just by showing up, so call it 1.5-2 sacks per game. The difference between that and leading the league in sacks is about another 1.5 sacks per game. You can probably chalk up about 5-10 sacks per season in either direction (or about half of that difference) to plain old blind luck. Then there are about 60 or 65 other defensive plays in every game - what happened on those? That's far more important.

[Mojouw]

I'm on board with OLB in the first. The drop off between the top 3 or 4 OLB prospects is massive. It takes well into the 2nd or maybe 3rd round for the same drop off in DT/DEs.

If no impact corners, then get a pass rusher who can actually rush the passer. Something that is really rAre on the roster at this point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Psycho Ward 86]

I wouldn't say that. I think we have the potential to have one very good pass rusher in Dupree, a Clark Haggans-level guy in Moats, two rotational players in Harrison and Jones, and an intriguing prospect in Chickillo. That's all you need in the immediate short term.

Of course, that's if they had three competent linemen in front of them instead of two good players trying to fake that there are three. Until we have a DL that is solid ALL the way across, the OLBs will keep not living up to expectations and it is just like continuing to throw stacks of $100 bills in the fire, only with draft picks.




You got that right. Figure any team is going to get a minimum of 25-30 sacks a season just by showing up, so call it 1.5-2 sacks per game. The difference between that and leading the league in sacks is about another 1.5 sacks per game. You can probably chalk up about 5-10 sacks per season in either direction (or about half of that difference) to plain old blind luck. Then there are about 60 or 65 other defensive plays in every game - what happened on those? That's far more important.

We have literally 0 OLB's that are a sure thing on our roster. Thats horribly thin no matter how you spin it. Moats is average and definitely not on Haggans level. Even Haggans was fairly good for a long time for us. Moats has been in the league for 6 seasons, i see no reason to believe he hasnt topped out in his potential. Strange that you would bring up Harrison as a talking point, he isnt even a lock to come back yet according to himself and his agent. Even if he were to come back, he'll be the oldest defensive player in the league and no one should expect Grandpa to be effective. Even Deebo is human. Jones just flat out sucks. He can kind of set the edge now and thats about it. Who are we kidding thinking that he still might become a good pass rusher. Its anything but comforting to think that Chickillo might have significant playtime as a project player. Dupree COULD be good. could. thats literally the best bet we have on the roster right now.

i could literally just throw you an Antwon Blake lowlight reel to answer the highlighted text.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm on board with OLB in the first. The drop off between the top 3 or 4 OLB prospects is massive. It takes well into the 2nd or maybe 3rd round for the same drop off in DT/DEs.

If no impact corners, then get a pass rusher who can actually rush the passer. Something that is really rAre on the roster at this point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah if were going to go OLB at all, lets make it quick

[pczach]

That's why I'm so high on Victor Ochi out of Stony Brook. He's one of those guys that will probably be available from the fourth round on. If you target him later, you can address other positions early while still getting a player that has terrific upside as a pass rusher at OLB in the Steelers' defensive scheme.

I think he would be a perfect addition to bolster the OLB position without using a pick at the top of the draft. There really aren't many guys with that type of value in this draft.

[Mojouw]

That's why I'm so high on Victor Ochi out of Stony Brook. He's one of those guys that will probably be available from the fourth round on. If you target him later, you can address other positions early while still getting a player that has terrific upside as a pass rusher at OLB in the Steelers' defensive scheme.

I think he would be a perfect addition to bolster the OLB position without using a pick at the top of the draft. There really aren't many guys with that type of value in this draft.

That is/was kind of my point. I think in a "normal" draft class Ochi goes in the 4th or later as you state. But in this draft class, edge rushers are few and far between. I think Ochi goes in the top 3 rounds. Which then makes the proposition something like this (leaving off the field stuff alone):

1. If we accept the hypothetical that due to the scarcity this draft of edge rushers - particularly 3-4 OLBers that Ochi is going to get selected in the top 3 rounds - we can then ask the following.

2. Would you rather have Floyd or Spence in Round 1 and a DT/DE/DB in Round 2 or DT/DE/DB in Round 1 and Ochi in Round 2?

[steelreserve]

We have literally 0 OLB's that are a sure thing on our roster. Thats horribly thin no matter how you spin it. Moats is average and definitely not on Haggans level. Even Haggans was fairly good for a long time for us. Moats has been in the league for 6 seasons, i see no reason to believe he hasnt topped out in his potential. Strange that you would bring up Harrison as a talking point, he isnt even a lock to come back yet according to himself and his agent. Even if he were to come back, he'll be the oldest defensive player in the league and no one should expect Grandpa to be effective. Even Deebo is human. Jones just flat out sucks. He can kind of set the edge now and thats about it. Who are we kidding thinking that he still might become a good pass rusher. Its anything but comforting to think that Chickillo might have significant playtime as a project player. Dupree COULD be good. could. thats literally the best bet we have on the roster right now.

i could literally just throw you an Antwon Blake lowlight reel to answer the highlighted text.
[/COLOR]

I never thought Haggans was anything more than an OK linebacker who benefited a LOT from having all four of the other pass-rushing positions filled with top-shelf talent. He basically proved that you do not NEED two star pass rushers in a 3-4; if you have the other pieces in place, you can generate some pressure and collect 6 or 8 sacks a year just by not completely sucking. Woodley probably had more raw talent than Haggans, but he also benefited a lot from that same effect, and it made him seem way better than he really was. So you can absolutely have a guy like Moats in there and be fine. But take away the other pieces and a guy like Moats plays like Moats plays now.

Right now we're missing one and a half of those four pieces - a third lineman who is not just pretty good but dominant, and maybe the other linebacker (Dupree's spot). And I'm sorry, but Dupree had fucking better be penciled in as one of the missing pieces, unless we think it's a good plan to panic every time a rookie does not come in and dominate the league right off the bat. Or if he really is our third straight swing and a miss with highly drafted pass-rushing OLBs - maybe it's time to consider that we're doing something wrong, and doubling down on it is not going to improve things?

Nope, still absolutely no OLB with the #1 pick; it would be as bad a mistake as we could make.

[Mojouw]

It is only a mistake if it doesn't pan out. if you get the next Von Miller, Demarcus Ware, Justin Houston, James Harrison, Terrell Suggs, etc. Then I can not see how that would be a problem.

If you get the next Jarvis Jones or Larry English or Sam Acho - well then, yeah, it stinks.

[steelreserve]

It is only a mistake if it doesn't pan out. if you get the next Von Miller, Demarcus Ware, Justin Houston, James Harrison, Terrell Suggs, etc. Then I can not see how that would be a problem.

If you get the next Jarvis Jones or Larry English or Sam Acho - well then, yeah, it stinks.


Here's how I look at it: If Dupree turns out to be a bust, then we either flat-out suck at identifying OLB talent and need to stop wasting high picks on it; or we have another problem that is preventing our highly-drafted guys who presumably have some talent from succeeding, so we need to address that first or we will keep failing with the high OLB picks.

If Dupree turns out not to be a bust, then OLB is not a major need.

Whichever one it is, neither of those paths lead toward OLB being a wise pick this year.

Yes, of course, unless you get the rare top-10 kind of talent, in which case you go with it regardless of position - but we've been over that before, and the only guy like that who we have a chance at also happens to be a drug addict. So that pretty well ruins it.

[Mojouw]

Here's how I look at it: If Dupree turns out to be a bust, then we either flat-out suck at identifying OLB talent and need to stop wasting high picks on it; or we have another problem that is preventing our highly-drafted guys who presumably have some talent from succeeding, so we need to address that first or we will keep failing with the high OLB picks.

If Dupree turns out not to be a bust, then OLB is not a major need.

Whichever one it is, neither of those paths lead toward OLB being a wise pick this year.

Yes, of course, unless you get the rare top-10 kind of talent, in which case you go with it regardless of position - but we've been over that before, and the only guy like that who we have a chance at also happens to be a drug addict. So that pretty well ruins it.

I kind of see OLB'ers as matched sets. You are not really finished at building the position until you have a pair of them.

Lloyd-Greene/Gildon
Porter-Gildon/Haggans
Harrison - Woodley
Dupree - ?????

The Steelers are still searching for the ????. Think about it this way, the Texans have employed JJ Watt, one man destroyer of blocking schemes for several years now. But they have been on constant search to find someone else to play across from him. Pass rushers work better off the edge as matched sets.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I kind of see OLB'ers as matched sets. You are not really finished at building the position until you have a pair of them.

Lloyd-Greene/Gildon
Porter-Gildon/Haggans
Harrison - Woodley
Dupree - ?????

The Steelers are still searching for the ????. Think about it this way, the Texans have employed JJ Watt, one man destroyer of blocking schemes for several years now. But they have been on constant search to find someone else to play across from him. Pass rushers work better off the edge as matched sets.

this is why Colbert recently said the Steelers were going to expand their search to 4-3 DEs also in order to find another pass rusher...

[Psycho Ward 86]

Here's how I look at it: If Dupree turns out to be a bust, then we either flat-out suck at identifying OLB talent and need to stop wasting high picks on it; or we have another problem that is preventing our highly-drafted guys who presumably have some talent from succeeding, so we need to address that first or we will keep failing with the high OLB picks.

If Dupree turns out not to be a bust, then OLB is not a major need.

Whichever one it is, neither of those paths lead toward OLB being a wise pick this year.

Yes, of course, unless you get the rare top-10 kind of talent, in which case you go with it regardless of position - but we've been over that before, and the only guy like that who we have a chance at also happens to be a drug addict. So that pretty well ruins it.

Even you concede that Dupree is an if.

And i disagree with your sentiment about our OLB evaluation. if Dupree turns into a bust, yeah it'll mean we havent done so well with evaluating OLB's but that doesnt mean we should stop investing high picks on them. we should get some better scouts.

We've been pretty much the worst team at getting good cornerbacks for a long time now. Should we avoid using a 1st round pick on CB's? I think not.

Im just saying OLB should be an option on the table at #25

[teegre]

We've been pretty much the worst team at getting good cornerbacks for a long time now. Should we avoid using a 1st round pick on CB's? I think not.

Im just saying OLB should be an option on the table at #25

Post of the day.