Boykin a Panther but wait look at the $

[Dwinsgames]

Brandon Boykin's deal with #Panthers (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Panthers?src=hash) is 1 year, $840,000 with an $80K signing bonus.


at that price I am pissed we did not get something done

[tube517]

They are counting on Golson to get it done.

They signed Gay so that was pretty much the nail in the coffin for Boykin.

He only signed for one year. If Gay starts showing his age and Golson sputters, don't be surprised if Boykin gets a look in 2017, unless he has an AllPro year or Tomlin/Butler/Lake just really really hate the guy :chuckle:

[steelreserve]

Well, what an idiotic move on our part. Not that we let him sign elsewhere; that was just a long-expected formality. But the whole way we handled the situation in general. From pissing him off with the Tomlin doghouse bullshit, to the Blake fiasco, to the slot-corner only pigeonholing (Boykin is as tall or taller than both Blake and Gay, who played outside most of the year) ... and just the apparent total lack of communication between the front office and coaching staff when making the trade.

Really - if you have a chance to add/keep a decent player like Boykin at close to the minimum salary, you do it. And if you have a decent player like that while Blake is in there getting torched in league-record fashion, you put him in over Blake, doghouse and slot-corner BS be damned. What a complete disappointment overall.

[Dwinsgames]

Well, what an idiotic move on our part. Not that we let him sign elsewhere; that was just a long-expected formality. But the whole way we handled the situation in general. From pissing him off with the Tomlin doghouse bullshit, to the Blake fiasco, to the slot-corner only pigeonholing (Boykin is as tall or taller than both Blake and Gay, who played outside most of the year) ... and just the apparent total lack of communication between the front office and coaching staff when making the trade.

Really - if you have a chance to add/keep a decent player like Boykin at close to the minimum salary, you do it. And if you have a decent player like that while Blake is in there getting torched in league-record fashion, you put him in over Blake, doghouse and slot-corner BS be damned. What a complete disappointment overall.

could not agree more

[hawaiiansteeler]

Brandon Boykin's deal with #Panthers (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Panthers?src=hash) is 1 year, $840,000 with an $80K signing bonus.


at that price I am pissed we did not get something done

does Boykin have a disease we don't know about? :huh:

[Shoes]

Brandon Boykin Says He Turned Down More Money To Play For Panthers

BY DAVE BRYAN (http://www.steelersdepot.com/author/davebryan/) MARCH 29, 2016 AT 01:01 PM
Former Pittsburgh Steelers cornerback Brandon Boykin signed a one-year contract with the Carolina Panthers on Monday for the veteran minimum plus an $80,000 signing bonus and he has since told me on Twitter that he turned down even more money from another team.
“Turned down 2 mil to go to a place where I can play fairly,” Boykin posted on Twitter.
The fact that Boykin’s biggest offer was $2 million a year is still a little confusing based on what he has managed to put on tape over the course of the last several seasons. It led me to speculate that Boykin might not have a great reputation around the league but Steelers running back DeAngelo Williamsquickly dispelled that notion to me on Twitter.
“If u are referring to Brandon Boykin he’s a grade A class act never an ass while playing for the steelers,” Williams wrote to me on Twitter.
Look, I certainly understand why Boykin might be bitter as his year in Pittsburgh probably didn’t go as he anticipated it would have when he was traded for during training camp. With that said, I have noted several times that I thought Boykin played reasonably well when given the opportunity to do so and I even had his market value this offseason being $4 million more than it actually wound up being. How that is perceived as me “hating on him” I’ll never know. Personally, I think the Panthers got a steal.
As far as Boykin’s snaps potentially being limited because of conditions related to his trade, I’m still not buying that even though he apparently believes that is what led to his lack of playing time. When Boykin finally gets settled in with the Panthers perhaps he will sit down with one of their great local beat writers and tell his side of the story as it relates to how he felt things went wrong with the Steelers.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/brandon-boykin-says-he-turned-down-more-money-to-play-for-panthers/

[Psycho Ward 86]

Brandon Boykin Says He Turned Down More Money To Play For Panthers

BY DAVE BRYAN (http://www.steelersdepot.com/author/davebryan/) MARCH 29, 2016 AT 01:01 PM
Former Pittsburgh Steelers cornerback Brandon Boykin signed a one-year contract with the Carolina Panthers on Monday for the veteran minimum plus an $80,000 signing bonus and he has since told me on Twitter that he turned down even more money from another team.
“Turned down 2 mil to go to a place where I can play fairly,” Boykin posted on Twitter.
The fact that Boykin’s biggest offer was $2 million a year is still a little confusing based on what he has managed to put on tape over the course of the last several seasons. It led me to speculate that Boykin might not have a great reputation around the league but Steelers running back DeAngelo Williamsquickly dispelled that notion to me on Twitter.
“If u are referring to Brandon Boykin he’s a grade A class act never an ass while playing for the steelers,” Williams wrote to me on Twitter.
Look, I certainly understand why Boykin might be bitter as his year in Pittsburgh probably didn’t go as he anticipated it would have when he was traded for during training camp. With that said, I have noted several times that I thought Boykin played reasonably well when given the opportunity to do so and I even had his market value this offseason being $4 million more than it actually wound up being. How that is perceived as me “hating on him” I’ll never know. Personally, I think the Panthers got a steal.
As far as Boykin’s snaps potentially being limited because of conditions related to his trade, I’m still not buying that even though he apparently believes that is what led to his lack of playing time. When Boykin finally gets settled in with the Panthers perhaps he will sit down with one of their great local beat writers and tell his side of the story as it relates to how he felt things went wrong with the Steelers.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/brandon-boykin-says-he-turned-down-more-money-to-play-for-panthers/











Wow. Just wow. Another big negative to the offseason occurrences. Even at $3-4 million he would have been a bargain. How you're unable to keep a CB that's holding opposing QB's to a 60ish rating is beyond me. And before anyone says "but but but he's probably an ass hole" im going to take Deangelo Williams' word for it. Not exactly the 1st time the coaching staff was too much of a cocky ass to admit they were wrong

[steelreserve]

“Turned down 2 mil to go to a place where I can play fairly,” Boykin posted on Twitter.


Yeah, that about covers it. I can't say I blame him. He seemed to handle himself as well as anyone could be expected to under the circumstances - didn't complain in public, didn't quit on the team, and played pretty damn well.

What's sad is that the whole thing was painfully obvious even to 99% of the fans. Obvious that Blake was a disaster; obvious that Boykin was the better player; obvious that the handling of the situation was utter dogshit. What were the coaches thinking?

I guess the final math of the equation is that it cost us a 5th-round draft pick NOT to have Blake anymore. That's still a step in the right direction, I suppose. Although the other way of looking at it is it cost us a legitimate NFL corner to get rid of Blake, which pisses me off a lot more.

[Dwinsgames]

Brandon Boykin Says He Turned Down More Money To Play For Panthers

BY DAVE BRYAN (http://www.steelersdepot.com/author/davebryan/) MARCH 29, 2016 AT 01:01 PM
Former Pittsburgh Steelers cornerback Brandon Boykin signed a one-year contract with the Carolina Panthers on Monday for the veteran minimum plus an $80,000 signing bonus and he has since told me on Twitter that he turned down even more money from another team.
“Turned down 2 mil to go to a place where I can play fairly,” Boykin posted on Twitter.
The fact that Boykin’s biggest offer was $2 million a year is still a little confusing based on what he has managed to put on tape over the course of the last several seasons. It led me to speculate that Boykin might not have a great reputation around the league but Steelers running back DeAngelo Williamsquickly dispelled that notion to me on Twitter.
“If u are referring to Brandon Boykin he’s a grade A class act never an ass while playing for the steelers,” Williams wrote to me on Twitter.
Look, I certainly understand why Boykin might be bitter as his year in Pittsburgh probably didn’t go as he anticipated it would have when he was traded for during training camp. With that said, I have noted several times that I thought Boykin played reasonably well when given the opportunity to do so and I even had his market value this offseason being $4 million more than it actually wound up being. How that is perceived as me “hating on him” I’ll never know. Personally, I think the Panthers got a steal.
As far as Boykin’s snaps potentially being limited because of conditions related to his trade, I’m still not buying that even though he apparently believes that is what led to his lack of playing time. When Boykin finally gets settled in with the Panthers perhaps he will sit down with one of their great local beat writers and tell his side of the story as it relates to how he felt things went wrong with the Steelers.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/brandon-boykin-says-he-turned-down-more-money-to-play-for-panthers/











Boykin gave him hell on twitter , told him ( in as many words ) when you do not know what you are talking about ...shut up over an earlier piece speculating Boykin has a bad groin and teams where staying away from him

[zulater]

I can't be worried about this guy anymore. I'm as confused as the next guy about why Boykin and the Steelers didn't work out better? But given the way things went last season did anyone have any expectation of him being back in 16? It was over as soon as the gun sounded in Denver. And accordingly I moved on. Good luck to him, and while I'm sure we could have gotten more out of him, and while I know he's a useful NFL player, his departure will not be felt. We can move on without him, and football will still be played in Pittsburgh.

[Hawkman]

I can't be worried about this guy anymore. I'm as confused as the next guy about why Boykin and the Steelers didn't work out better? But given the way things went last season did anyone have any expectation of him being back in 16? It was over as soon as the gun sounded in Denver. And accordingly I moved on. Good luck to him, and while I'm sure we could have gotten more out of him, and while I know he's a useful NFL player, his departure will not be felt. We can move on without him, and football will still be played in Pittsburgh.

Amen!

[SteelerFanInStl]

Yeah, that about covers it. I can't say I blame him. He seemed to handle himself as well as anyone could be expected to under the circumstances - didn't complain in public, didn't quit on the team, and played pretty damn well.

What's sad is that the whole thing was painfully obvious even to 99% of the fans. Obvious that Blake was a disaster; obvious that Boykin was the better player; obvious that the handling of the situation was utter dogshit. What were the coaches thinking?

I guess the final math of the equation is that it cost us a 5th-round draft pick NOT to have Blake anymore. That's still a step in the right direction, I suppose. Although the other way of looking at it is it cost us a legitimate NFL corner to get rid of Blake, which pisses me off a lot more.

Exactly. That whole situation has forever put a taint on Tomlin for me.

[zulater]

Exactly. That whole situation has forever put a taint on Tomlin for me.

That would be like being in a relationship with Heidi Klum but ending it because she insists on 1% milk and you want 2%. :lol:


Tomlin is too central to your world if you're a Steeler fan to allow such a minor player to taint your sense of your favorite team's coach to my way of thinking. That is unless you were already predisposed against Tomlin for other reasons. Which is fine. But I just find it hard to believe that if you were more or less Tomlin neutral that you would take such a strong stance over such an insignificant chapter to his overall coaching legacy.

[Dwinsgames]

That would be like being in a relationship with Heidi Klum but ending it because she insists on 1% milk and you want 2%. :lol:


Tomlin is too central to your world if you're a Steeler fan to allow such a minor player to taint your sense of your favorite team's coach to my way of thinking. That is unless you were already predisposed against Tomlin for other reasons. Which is fine. But I just find it hard to believe that if you were more or less Tomlin neutral that you would take such a strong stance over such an insignificant chapter to his overall coaching legacy.

can not totally agree because of the bold ..

he clearly should not have been a minor player , he should have been a starting corner and the blame to why he wasnt sits squarely on the guy who makes the calls and that would be Tomlin .

it does leave a bad taste in my mouth ( like chunky milk would ) ...

sure its over with but but like barium the foul taste does not soon leave

Tomlin may be a decent coach but to treat him as the second coming of Vince Lombardi and attach a legacy to him is pretty much laughable to me

[zulater]

can not totally agree because of the bold ..

he clearly should not have been a minor player , he should have been a starting corner and the blame to why he wasnt sits squarely on the guy who makes the calls and that would be Tomlin .

it does leave a bad taste in my mouth ( like chunky milk would ) ...

sure its over with but but like barium the foul taste does not soon leave

A starting corner? No, because he was a slot corner, and Gay was the first slot corner on the team. So he wasn't deemed capable of locking up on either of a teams two top receivers and judging by the underwhelming reception he got on the free agent market it appears that the NFL as a whole is in agreement with the Steelers.

Should he have gotten more playing time while a Steeler? Yeah I think so. Gay, while at his best in the slot was still better than Blake. So perhaps the Steelers best defense would have been more Gay on the outside and get Boykin on the field as your first nickel, with Blake just staying the hell on the sidelines? But I can't say for sure? Maybe Gay would have wore down or lost confidence if he was asked to play more outside corner?

In the end all we can do is guess. And my final guess would be this. Even if Boykin would have been incorporated into the cb rotation earlier the Steelers season probably still ends up 10-6, and ends in Denver.

[Drazo85]

He is gone. Good bye. Its for the best. Steelers moved on, he moved on. Tomlin would have to answer some questions if he can put a great year. This guy is solid, but for us, fans, he looked special cause we have to watch Blake getting gang raped entire season. It was painfull, very painfull. Wish him the best.

[Dwinsgames]

A starting corner? No, because he was a slot corner, and Gay was the first slot corner on the team. So he wasn't deemed capable of locking up on either of a teams two top receivers and judging by the underwhelming reception he got on the free agent market it appears that the NFL as a whole is in agreement with the Steelers.

Should he have gotten more playing time while a Steeler? Yeah I think so. Gay, while at his best in the slot was still better than Blake. So perhaps the Steelers best defense would have been more Gay on the outside and get Boykin on the field as your first nickel, with Blake just staying the hell on the sidelines? But I can't say for sure? Maybe Gay would have wore down or lost confidence if he was asked to play more outside corner?

In the end all we can do is guess. And my final guess would be this. Even if Boykin would have been incorporated into the cb rotation earlier the Steelers season probably still ends up 10-6, and ends in Denver.

no reason he should not have started over Blake , none , zero ... people can claim size all they want and he is a nickle guy only however the truth of the matter is he is no smaller than Blake and has more skills ... so while Blake played outside we left more talent on the bench in the form of Boykin ( and his philly tape proves that as does his limited reps here in Pittsburgh ) Boykin is 10 times the player Blake is regardless of where you line them up ...

the above is on Tomlin like it or not

shall we move on , sure , should we forget it , no

[polamalubeast]

A starting corner? No, because he was a slot corner, and Gay was the first slot corner on the team. So he wasn't deemed capable of locking up on either of a teams two top receivers and judging by the underwhelming reception he got on the free agent market it appears that the NFL as a whole is in agreement with the Steelers.

Should he have gotten more playing time while a Steeler? Yeah I think so. Gay, while at his best in the slot was still better than Blake. So perhaps the Steelers best defense would have been more Gay on the outside and get Boykin on the field as your first nickel, with Blake just staying the hell on the sidelines? But I can't say for sure? Maybe Gay would have wore down or lost confidence if he was asked to play more outside corner?

In the end all we can do is guess. And my final guess would be this. Even if Boykin would have been incorporated into the cb rotation earlier the Steelers season probably still ends up 10-6, and ends in Denver.

With better secondary play in Seattle,the steelers beat the seahawks.They were just awful on 3rd down and long in Seattle.

[teegre]

With better secondary play in Seattle,the steelers beat the seahawks.They were just awful on 3rd down and long in Seattle.

With better CB play from Boykin, on 3rd-&-12 against Denver's fifth-string WR, the Steelers are playing in the AFCCG.


:wink02:

[zulater]

no reason he should not have started over Blake , none , zero ... people can claim size all they want and he is a nickle guy only however the truth of the matter is he is no smaller than Blake and has more skills ... so while Blake played outside we left more talent on the bench in the form of Boykin ( and his philly tape proves that as does his limited reps here in Pittsburgh ) Boykin is 10 times the player Blake is regardless of where you line them up ...

the above is on Tomlin like it or not

shall we move on , sure , should we forget it , no

If was that cut and dried then it would have stood to reason that Boykin would have received a larger contract from free agency than Blake, when just the opposite was true. Blake got over 2 million and Boykin vet minimum of 800k.

Anyway if the Steelers were grossly wrong on Boykin so were the Eagles and follow that up with the rest of the league in this offseason's free agency.

[polamalubeast]

With better CB play from Boykin, on 3rd-&-12 against Denver's fifth-string WR, the Steelers are playing in the AFCCG.


:wink02:


The difference, the 3 best corner of the Steelers played against Denver.This was not the case in Seattle or in the first 11 games of the season.

[teegre]

The difference, the 3 best corner of the Steelers played against Denver.This was not the case in Seattle or in the first 11 games of the season.

Yeah... but, for some reason Boykin still allowed a decrepit Manning to complete a pass to a fifth-string WR on third down... which allowed Denver to drive down the field (and win the game).

My point is:
People will lambast Blake from dusk 'til dawn (rightfully so)... but, for whatever reason, when Boykin makes a gaff (huge ones), he gets a pass.

[SteelerFanInStl]

That would be like being in a relationship with Heidi Klum but ending it because she insists on 1% milk and you want 2%. :lol:


Tomlin is too central to your world if you're a Steeler fan to allow such a minor player to taint your sense of your favorite team's coach to my way of thinking. That is unless you were already predisposed against Tomlin for other reasons. Which is fine. But I just find it hard to believe that if you were more or less Tomlin neutral that you would take such a strong stance over such an insignificant chapter to his overall coaching legacy.

It doesn't have anything to do with who the player was. It has everything to do with the fact that our secondary was absolute crap and we had a guy sitting the bench who had a history of success in the NFL but our coach refused to even give him a chance. I was ecstatic when we made the trade to get Boykin because I thought that the team and coaches were finally trying to improve the poor secondary.

With as poor as Blake was playing, his starting position should've been up for grabs to whoever wanted to step forward and take it. It would've been a different story if someone like Gay was playing poorly. He at least has a history of success. Blake had/has nothing.

Boykin was only a "minor player" because that was all that he was allowed to be. I believe that every player deserves a fair shot and Tomlin didn't give Boykin that.

The Boykin situation wasn't even the first time that Tomlin did this. He did the same thing to Lance Moore the year before.

[Born2Steel]

I refuse to believe that Tomlin, or anyone else on our coaching staff, deliberately didn't play any player because they(the coach) didn't like them(the player), personally. If the coaches had a problem with Boykin it was game play related. Period!

[SteelerFanInStl]

If was that cut and dried then it would have stood to reason that Boykin would have received a larger contract from free agency than Blake, when just the opposite was true. Blake got over 2 million and Boykin vet minimum of 800k.

Anyway if the Steelers were grossly wrong on Boykin so were the Eagles and follow that up with the rest of the league in this offseason's free agency.

You have no idea what contract offers/opportunities Boykin had available to him. Reading what he said, he's still pissed about the way he was handled in Pittsburgh and didn't want that to happen again. He could've signed for more but didn't take it. You should know that a higher salary means very little as far as talent. Blake was signed by TN because of LeBeau.

If you want to place a bet on who ends up higher at the end of next year on the PFF CB list between Blake and Boykin, I'm all for it.

- - - Updated - - -


With better CB play from Boykin, on 3rd-&-12 against Denver's fifth-string WR, the Steelers are playing in the AFCCG.


:wink02:

Yes, obviously Boykin lost that game for us. :toofunny:

[86WARD]

Well, what an idiotic move on our part. Not that we let him sign elsewhere; that was just a long-expected formality. But the whole way we handled the situation in general. From pissing him off with the Tomlin doghouse bullshit, to the Blake fiasco, to the slot-corner only pigeonholing (Boykin is as tall or taller than both Blake and Gay, who played outside most of the year) ... and just the apparent total lack of communication between the front office and coaching staff when making the trade.

Really - if you have a chance to add/keep a decent player like Boykin at close to the minimum salary, you do it. And if you have a decent player like that while Blake is in there getting torched in league-record fashion, you put him in over Blake, doghouse and slot-corner BS be damned. What a complete disappointment overall.

This. The whole situation was a debacle from the get go. Not only did they lose a good player but they wasted a draft pick...again...

[teegre]

Yes, obviously Boykin lost that game for us. :toofunny:

forcing Denver to punt there > allowing the drive to continue

[tube517]

I will forever be baffled by this whole scenario. I'll let go of the 2% milk. :chuckle:

But, if Golson does not get hurt, Boykin would never have been a Steeler in the first place.

Honestly, if there was no loss of draft pick, this wouldn't be much of an issue now. During the season, he should have played more but it's over now.

[teegre]

The Boykin situation wasn't even the first time that Tomlin did this. He did the same thing to Lance Moore the year before.

I never understood why everyone harped on Moore not getting more playing time.

Bell, AB, Bryant, and Heath took the majority of the targets. Wheaton was the next up. Who should Moore have supplanted?

[steelreserve]

In the end all we can do is guess. And my final guess would be this. Even if Boykin would have been incorporated into the cb rotation earlier the Steelers season probably still ends up 10-6, and ends in Denver.

We win the Seattle game and wind up at least 11-5. That possibly changes who we face in the first round of the playoffs, so instead of a first-round game that was the equivalent of standing toe-to-toe with a kid with Down Syndrome and throwing pigshit at each other, maybe we go into the next round semi-healthy and put up 30 points on Denver. Maybe a lot of things happen. Having the worst CB in the league certainly did not help.

[Hawkman]

I will forever be baffled by this whole scenario. I'll let go of the 2% milk. :chuckle:

But, if Golson does not get hurt, Boykin would never have been a Steeler in the first place.

Honestly, if there was no loss of draft pick, this wouldn't be much of an issue now. During the season, he should have played more but it's over now.

Best post on this thread.

Who knows Boykin may see little to no playing time next year. At that price, I don't see Carolina starting him.

[zulater]

I refuse to believe that Tomlin, or anyone else on our coaching staff, deliberately didn't play any player because they(the coach) didn't like them(the player), personally. If the coaches had a problem with Boykin it was game play related. Period!

Conspiracies are so much more fun though. :lol:

In all seriousness, how a fanbase can spend so much time debating on the relative worth of a player who will be playing on his 3rd team in 3 seasons as though a franchise's very fate was dependent on him!? :doh: :frusty:

[polamalubeast]

We win the Seattle game and wind up at least 11-5. That possibly changes who we face in the first round of the playoffs, so instead of a first-round game that was the equivalent of standing toe-to-toe with a kid with Down Syndrome and throwing pigshit at each other, maybe we go into the next round semi-healthy and put up 30 points on Denver. Maybe a lot of things happen. Having the worst CB in the league certainly did not help.

The Steelers would have ended in the 6th seed even with a win against Seattle, but at least the Steelers would not have needed a defeat of the Jets in Week 17 to make the playoffs.

[Dwinsgames]

Conspiracies are so much more fun though. :lol:

In all seriousness, how a fanbase can spend so much time debating on the relative worth of a player who will be playing on his 3rd team in 3 seasons as though a franchise's very fate was dependent on him!? :doh: :frusty:


really out of context , its not like he signed a deal here then moved on the next year , he was traded by Chip Kelly ( who traded away many good players ) in the last year of his rookie deal , Kelly had no attachment to him , he did not draft him he was part of a prior regime ...

he came here for a late round pick and we ignored his proven talent ( yes proven its on tape ) and he moved on ...

why do so many Steeler fans drink from the fountain of Tomlin knows best when their own eyes tell them a completely different story about a players ability ?

why try and make the kid look like a problem child when you have never met him or heard anything bad about him ?

why try and act like he was MEH when he was clearly one of the most productive members of our shit secondary on a snap per snap basis ?

why try and dilute what he had accomplished as a player because he is elsewhere now ?

was / is Boykin the second coming of Rod Woodson ? NO

but to act like he was beneath your time or effort and one of the worst players on the team is completely out of line and off base

but hey have it your way .. be a jerk , maybe he should get hit by a truck then all would be perfect in your world ?

[zulater]

We win the Seattle game and wind up at least 11-5. That possibly changes who we face in the first round of the playoffs, so instead of a first-round game that was the equivalent of standing toe-to-toe with a kid with Down Syndrome and throwing pigshit at each other, maybe we go into the next round semi-healthy and put up 30 points on Denver. Maybe a lot of things happen. Having the worst CB in the league certainly did not help.

And if we're going to play that game, if Blake doesn't return an interception 70 yards for a td vs San Diego the Steelers most certainly lose that one. So it evens out in the hypothetical world. :coffee:

- - - Updated - - -


really out of context , its not like he signed a deal here then moved on the next year , he was traded by Chip Kelly ( who traded away many good players ) in the last year of his rookie deal , Kelly had no attachment to him , he did not draft him he was part of a prior regime ...

he came here for a late round pick and we ignored his proven talent ( yes proven its on tape ) and he moved on ...

why do so many Steeler fans drink from the fountain of Tomlin knows best when their own eyes tell them a completely different story about a players ability ?

why try and make the kid look like a problem child when you have never met him or heard anything bad about him ?

why try and act like he was MEH when he was clearly one of the most productive members of our shit secondary on a snap per snap basis ?

why try and dilute what he had accomplished as a player because he is elsewhere now ?

was / is Boykin the second coming of Rod Woodson ? NO

but to act like he was beneath your time or effort and one of the worst players on the team is completely out of line and off base

but hey have it your way .. be a jerk , maybe he should get hit by a truck then all would be perfect in your world ?


Want some cheese with that whine? :coffee:

[polamalubeast]

714968041360986112

[zulater]

I think when we suppose we know more than the coaches we get ourselves in trouble.

Oh but profootballfocus says so!

Yeah well according to them Heath Miller pretty much has sucked for the past 4 seasons. They rated him a below average blocker (among TE's) not just this past season, but for the past several years. Yeah I'm sure Heath missed some blocks. But he also was blocking interior defensive linemen and linebackers 1 on 1, while his contemporaries were blocking safeties and corners and occasionally chipping one of the behemoths Heath was blocking by himself, but yeah they were better blockers because PFF said so! :upyours:

I'm obviously no pro, but Tunch Ilkin was, and he laughs whenever someone brings up PFF's grades. He asks how can you definitively grade a play when you don't even know what the play call was or what every player's assignment was on the play?

Again bottom line on Boykin. The collective of the NFL has spoken. He's a minimum salary player and is more likely to be looking for gainful employment next offseason than to be an important component in the Panthers defense this one.

[86WARD]

I never understood why everyone harped on Moore not getting more playing time.

Bell, AB, Bryant, and Heath took the majority of the targets. Wheaton was the next up. Who should Moore have supplanted?

At the time...Justin Brown. Brown had no business taking snaps and was no where near the Level of talent Moore is/was.

[Hawkman]

really out of context , its not like he signed a deal here then moved on the next year , he was traded by Chip Kelly ( who traded away many good players )




but hey have it your way .. be a jerk , maybe he should get hit by a truck then all would be perfect in your world ?

Jerk....Reallly?? I guess you're qualified to make that evaluation!!

[Born2Steel]

This thread has become hilarious. Boykin = The One Ring.

[zulater]

Doesn't anyone get the difference between what is asked of your "dime" cb as opposed to your top two corners?

I've got no problem with Boykin. (which has been insinuated by someone, though I've never spoken an ill word about the man) I think he gave it his all and played well when given a chance.

And yes I'm sure he graded out well in those limited snaps. But if you can't see there's a difference between covering the 3rd-4th-or 5th best receiver for 8-12 plays and covering say for example A.J.Green for 45-60 snaps well then there's really not much point in having a discussion is there? Further factor in that on those 8-12 snaps the play call (as to pass or run) is generally going to be fairly evident. 3rd and 10, you're probably not falling for that play action fake now are you?

So don't act as if Boykin was being asked to do what Blake was being asked to do, and sure as hell don't assume he would have done it better, when he most assuredly wouldn't have done it as well.

That's not claiming Blake was any great shakes. Because he was substandard. He indeed was worse as a #1 corner than Boykin was as a nickle or dime cb.

But turn it around and reverse their roles and Boykin is not going to upgrade Blake, he's almost certainly going to be worse.

[hawaiiansteeler]

This thread has become hilarious. Boykin = The One Ring.

Brandon Boykin was better than Rod Woodson and Mel Blount put together...:nw:

[Count Steeler]

Brandon Boykin was better than Rod Woodson and Mel Blount put together...:nw:

Would be true if he was Bra Boykin.

[zulater]

Brandon Boykin was better than Rod Woodson and Mel Blount put together...:nw:

Why play the season? They should just award the Lombardi to the Panthers now!

:sofunny:

[Shoes]

Why play the season? They should just award the Lombardi to the Panthers now!

:sofunny:

No, give it a few months and it will be Romo & the cowboys again.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Why play the season? They should just award the Lombardi to the Panthers now!

:sofunny:

best free agent signing in the history of the NFL since Reggie White...:yup:

[teegre]

At the time...Justin Brown. Brown had no business taking snaps and was no where near the Level of talent Moore is/was.

Got it. Thank you.

[hawaiiansteeler]

No, give it a few months and it will be Romo & the cowboys again.

but isn't Bill Belicheat the greatest coaching genius of all-time? surely he'll outsmart all of the other teams once again...:hippo::hippo::hippo::hippo::hippo:

[Steeldude]

I refuse to believe that Tomlin, or anyone else on our coaching staff, deliberately didn't play any player because they(the coach) didn't like them(the player), personally. If the coaches had a problem with Boykin it was game play related. Period!

Yet they played Blake. The worst CB in the NFL.

[steelreserve]

The Steelers would have ended in the 6th seed even with a win against Seattle, but at least the Steelers would not have needed a defeat of the Jets in Week 17 to make the playoffs.


And if we're going to play that game, if Blake doesn't return an interception 70 yards for a td vs San Diego the Steelers most certainly lose that one. So it evens out in the hypothetical world. :coffee:

In the hypothetical world, yes, we lose to the Chargers if Blake vanishes and is replaced with a guy who does everything indistinguishably from Blake except for that one play, where he doesn't make the interception. In reality, we'd be replacing an inferior player with a better one. There's really nothing that says Boykin wouldn't have made the same play, or maybe Cockrell was covering that guy on that play and made the same interception, or maybe Boykin makes a different big play. Or maybe we stop them from marching right down the field on the first drive. Or maybe we don't leave Gronkowski completely uncovered for an easy TD and beat the Patriots instead.

Who knows what else changes? What I do know is we'd be removing a guy who gave up the most receiving yards IN THE HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE and replacing him with someone else. Assume Boykin is just an average player - you still come out WAY ahead. Especially over the course of a season.



So don't act as if Boykin was being asked to do what Blake was being asked to do, and sure as hell don't assume he would have done it better, when he most assuredly wouldn't have done it as well.

That's not claiming Blake was any great shakes. Because he was substandard. He indeed was worse as a #1 corner than Boykin was as a nickle or dime cb.

But turn it around and reverse their roles and Boykin is not going to upgrade Blake, he's almost certainly going to be worse.


How is Boykin assuredly going to be worse? MOST YARDS IN THE HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE. There have been several thousand starting cornerbacks that have played in the NFL, and Blake was the worst of them all. So somehow we had BOTH of the two worst ever, and Blake was only #2? Phew! Glad we dodged that bullet. Sometimes we don't appreciate Tomlin's genius!

:retire:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Yet they played Blake. The worst CB in the NFL.

as hard as it is to believe, Blake was the 2nd worst CB. the Saints' Brandon Browner was even worse which was no small feat on his part...

[hawaiiansteeler]

Alex Kozora Retweeted
Steelers Depot ‏@Steelersdepot

To recap, Antwon Blake stands to earn a max of $2.25 million in 2016 while Brandon Boykin can only make $840,000 in 2016. #Steelers

https://twitter.com/Alex_Kozora?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp %7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[steelreserve]

as hard as it is to believe, Blake was the 2nd worst CB. the Saints' Brandon Browner was even worse which was no small feat on his part...

It's a matter of semantics. Blake allowed the most receptions and yards in the league; Browner allowed the second-most in both. Blake was second in the league in TDs allowed; Browner led the league in penalty yardage. Browner was third with 14 missed tackles; Blake had double that with 28 and led the league.

So basically, they were both terrible, except I would give the nod to Blake for the TDs, plus actually breaking the all-time record for yards allowed, and blowing away the rest of the field in missed tackles. Usually players that bad get benched after a few games, not keep starting for the whole season. At least the Saints had the excuse that there may not have been an obvious replacement staring them right in the face.

[Craic]

It doesn't have anything to do with who the player was. It has everything to do with the fact that our secondary was absolute crap and we had a guy sitting the bench who had a history of success in the NFL but our coach refused to even give him a chance. I was ecstatic when we made the trade to get Boykin because I thought that the team and coaches were finally trying to improve the poor secondary.

With as poor as Blake was playing, his starting position should've been up for grabs to whoever wanted to step forward and take it. It would've been a different story if someone like Gay was playing poorly. He at least has a history of success. Blake had/has nothing.

Boykin was only a "minor player" because that was all that he was allowed to be. I believe that every player deserves a fair shot and Tomlin didn't give Boykin that.

The Boykin situation wasn't even the first time that Tomlin did this. He did the same thing to Lance Moore the year before.


The difference, the 3 best corner of the Steelers played against Denver.This was not the case in Seattle or in the first 11 games of the season.


c . . . he clearly should not have been a minor player , he should have been a starting corner and the blame to why he wasnt sits squarely on the guy who makes the calls and that would be Tomlin .

it does leave a bad taste in my mouth ( like chunky milk would ) ...

sure its over with but but like barium the foul taste does not soon leave

Tomlin may be a decent coach but to treat him as the second coming of Vince Lombardi and attach a legacy to him is pretty much laughable to me


Exactly. That whole situation has forever put a taint on Tomlin for me.

Why people keep believing Boykin would have been anything better than Blake the first ten or so weeks, I have no idea. People: he did not know the defense. I don't care how good you are, if you don't know the defense, you are going to get burned every time, or open someone else up to get burned every time. My proof?

Here (http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Boykin-finding-ways-to-make-plays/44b7ab56-6d70-4e24-8a8e-f9a110d996be)

“He got the experience over the length of the year in terms of what we’re doing defensively,” defensive coordinator Keith Butler said. “It took him a little while to learn what we’re doing but he’s getting a good handle on it now.”

Note the date on that. JAN 1, 2016!!!!

In other words . . . It took Boykin almost ALL SEASON LONG just to learn the defense. And you still wanted him to play? No thank you. Once he knew the defense well enough to see the field, he played at the first opportunity he got.

[teegre]

I think that everyone is missing a major point here...

Josh Norman just became expendable.

I say we trade for him... what's a backup corner cost these days???

[polamalubeast]

Why people keep believing Boykin would have been anything better than Blake the first ten or so weeks, I have no idea. People: he did not know the defense. I don't care how good you are, if you don't know the defense, you are going to get burned every time, or open someone else up to get burned every time. My proof?

Here (http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Boykin-finding-ways-to-make-plays/44b7ab56-6d70-4e24-8a8e-f9a110d996be)


Note the date on that. JAN 1, 2016!!!!

In other words . . . It took Boykin almost ALL SEASON LONG just to learn the defense. And you still wanted him to play? No thank you. Once he knew the defense well enough to see the field, he played at the first opportunity he got.

Cockrell arrived after Boykin in training camp last year and he was a starter in week 1.....This is not an excuse for me.

Boykin was productive in Philadelphia(6 INT in 2013), Blake has never been productive in the NFL.

[polamalubeast]

It's a matter of semantics. Blake allowed the most receptions and yards in the league; Browner allowed the second-most in both. Blake was second in the league in TDs allowed; Browner led the league in penalty yardage. Browner was third with 14 missed tackles; Blake had double that with 28 and led the league.

So basically, they were both terrible, except I would give the nod to Blake for the TDs, plus actually breaking the all-time record for yards allowed, and blowing away the rest of the field in missed tackles. Usually players that bad get benched after a few games, not keep starting for the whole season. At least the Saints had the excuse that there may not have been an obvious replacement staring them right in the face.


It's hard to believe, but I watched the games between the Panthers and the saints in superdome and Browner had probably the worst game of the year by a CB in 2015 in the nfl.

A lot of big play and penalty(often on 3rd down) given by Browner, it was ridiculous.

[zulater]

Again I think the point people are missing is that a nickle corner and your primary corner are two different things.

I guarantee you that if you limited Blake to 15-20 snaps a game, on all obvious passing downs, and lined him up against the 3rd or 4th best receiver from the other team he would have looked fine. Probably better than Boykin.

Similar to Cortez Allen, when Allen was your nickel corner he looked like a genuine up and comer. Get this guy more snaps, he needs to be a bigger part of the defense. So how did that work out?

It was a huge step up in class. A major difference between covering a teams best receiver on every down and covering their 3rd guy on obvious passing downs 15 times.

Blake got burned several times on play action passes. Boykin was rarely if ever put in position to even guard against the possibility of a run.

So here's what I think. For a combination of reasons the Steelers coaching staff came to the conclusion that Brandon Boykin wasn't capable of lining up 40+ snaps a game against mostly other teams x and y receiver. Not only having the responsibility of limiting the receivers lined up against him for that number of downs, but also recognizing when it was a running play and controlling his area of the field in the case of a jail break.

I mean this sort of nonsense that Boykin would have stepped in for Blake and been a primary lock down corner puts me in mind of the idiots who back in the day came to the conclusion that "Famous Amos" Zeroue was a better back than Bettis because Amos averaged 5 yards per carry being a situational back. :doh: (of course once JB was injured and Amos was put in position of primary back he was exposed as being fairly worthless.)

So folks figure it out, situational players can shine as long as they remain situational players. Occasionally one will step up to a primary role and succeed. But my guess is that Boykin wont be one of them. He was the second best nickle back (to Gay) which made him the 4th corner( aka dime back), on a team that didn't allot a great number of snaps to that player. Or at least early in the season they didn't.

Do I think the upgrade of the draft position dependent on Boykin's allocation of snaps played into his lack of early playing time? Possible, but I can't or wont say so with any certainty. Yeah it's open to speculation, but I can't believe if the Steelers saw him as a serious upgrade to what they were putting out there they would have kept him off the field.

Now as far as him being slow in picking up the defense? Again I don't know? The thing I kept hearing was that in practice he couldn't stay upright on running plays. Every time a run came his way he would lose his feet and /or be easily blocked. You can't be anything more than a nickel or dime back in the Steelers defense if you're an absolute liability against the run.

Finally for all of you proposed geniuses who are obviously so much smarter than Tomlin or Butler. Congratulations. Apparently you're also smarter than the 31 other teams.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYabrQrXt4A


:applaudit: You see obviously they weren't smart like you and didn't bother themselves by checking out Boykin's play as an Eagle.Or better yet they didn't read the all knowing Profootballfocus! Just so easy seeing this guy is a star, how can everyone that actually has a job in the league in a position to find such a gem miss this? :doh:

:sarcasm:

Seriously this is so effing retarded!In a nutshell it comes down to this. Situational players generally look good as long as they remain situational players. The more exposure they get (playing time) the worse they are, often to the point that once they get exposed for what they are they don't even function well anymore in their previous role due to the bruising of their confidence.

[Born2Steel]

Boykin did have a pretty good year in 2013. I don't know about his overall play but he had some very well timed INTs that sealed some wins. He barely played his rookie season, 2012, and was extremely pedestrian in 2014. Maybe he has an undisclosed injury, maybe 2013 was a fluke, but in no way did the Steelers coaching staff just not play a better option.

[zulater]

Boykin did have a pretty good year in 2013. I don't know about his overall play but he had some very well timed INTs that sealed some wins. He barely played his rookie season, 2012, and was extremely pedestrian in 2014. Maybe he has an undisclosed injury, maybe 2013 was a fluke, but in no way did the Steelers coaching staff just not play a better option.

Again, nickel back, vs primary 2 cb's are different roles, different responsibilities. Not an apples to apples comparison. The notion that Tomlin has less awareness as to his players relative talent than we do is just absurd! Do you have the same coaches films he and his staff have to review? And even if you did would you comprehend them to the same level he and his staff can? And even if those two things were true you probably have the time to devote to the task that he and his coaches have, seeing as that is pretty much their job. Also do you attend Steeler practices? Team meetings etc...? No of course not. So unless you believe Tomlin, Butler, and Lake are blithering idiots who know nothing about their jobs then the presumption that they were blind to Boykin's ability is absurd! I don't know the reason he didn't play more, but at the same token I'm sure there were valid reasons for doing what they did when they did it.

One question then I'll recuse myself from this conversation for awhile.

Is Brandon Boykin going to be a difference maker in Carolina?

[polamalubeast]

Again, nickel back, vs primary 2 cb's are different roles, different responsibilities. Not an apples to apples comparison. The notion that Tomlin has less awareness as to his players relative talent than we do is just absurd! Do you have the same coaches films he and his staff have to review? And even if you did would you comprehend them to the same level he and his staff can? And even if those two things were true you probably have the time to devote to the task that he and his coaches have, seeing as that is pretty much their job. Also do you attend Steeler practices? Team meetings etc...? No of course not. So unless you believe Tomlin, Butler, and Lake are blithering idiots who know nothing about their jobs then the presumption that they were blind to Boykin's ability is absurd! I don't know the reason he didn't play more, but at the same token I'm sure there were valid reasons for doing what they did when they did it.

One question then I'll recuse myself from this conversation for awhile.

Is Brandon Boykin going to be a difference maker in Carolina?


It is the same coaching staff that has put Justin Brown before Lance Moore as the 3rd WR for first 6 games in 2014 and the offense was atrocious in the first 6 games with the exception of the first half against the Browns in week 1 and the game against the Panthers.


Same thing in 2013 when Cam Heyward was on the bench behind Ziggy Hood for the first 4 games of the season.

For Brandon Boykin with the panthers, I think the Panthers will love him and Blake will be hated by the fans in Tennesse.

[tube517]

I've put the Boykin/Blake "milk" behind me.

I'm on the Sen Golson bandwagon!

[salamander]

I've put the Boykin/Blake "milk" behind me.

I'm on the Sen Golson bandwagon!

Sen Golson, Wil Gay, Dor Grant, etc. Whatever works!! :chuckle:

[Dwinsgames]

Again I think the point people are missing is that a nickle corner and your primary corner are two different things.

I guarantee you that if you limited Blake to 15-20 snaps a game, on all obvious passing downs, and lined him up against the 3rd or 4th best receiver from the other team he would have looked fine. Probably better than Boykin.

Similar to Cortez Allen, when Allen was your nickel corner he looked like a genuine up and comer. Get this guy more snaps, he needs to be a bigger part of the defense. So how did that work out?

It was a huge step up in class. A major difference between covering a teams best receiver on every down and covering their 3rd guy on obvious passing downs 15 times.

Blake got burned several times on play action passes. Boykin was rarely if ever put in position to even guard against the possibility of a run.

So here's what I think. For a combination of reasons the Steelers coaching staff came to the conclusion that Brandon Boykin wasn't capable of lining up 40+ snaps a game against mostly other teams x and y receiver. Not only having the responsibility of limiting the receivers lined up against him for that number of downs, but also recognizing when it was a running play and controlling his area of the field in the case of a jail break.

I mean this sort of nonsense that Boykin would have stepped in for Blake and been a primary lock down corner puts me in mind of the idiots who back in the day came to the conclusion that "Famous Amos" Zeroue was a better back than Bettis because Amos averaged 5 yards per carry being a situational back. :doh: (of course once JB was injured and Amos was put in position of primary back he was exposed as being fairly worthless.)

So folks figure it out, situational players can shine as long as they remain situational players. Occasionally one will step up to a primary role and succeed. But my guess is that Boykin wont be one of them. He was the second best nickle back (to Gay) which made him the 4th corner( aka dime back), on a team that didn't allot a great number of snaps to that player. Or at least early in the season they didn't.

Do I think the upgrade of the draft position dependent on Boykin's allocation of snaps played into his lack of early playing time? Possible, but I can't or wont say so with any certainty. Yeah it's open to speculation, but I can't believe if the Steelers saw him as a serious upgrade to what they were putting out there they would have kept him off the field.

Now as far as him being slow in picking up the defense? Again I don't know? The thing I kept hearing was that in practice he couldn't stay upright on running plays. Every time a run came his way he would lose his feet and /or be easily blocked. You can't be anything more than a nickel or dime back in the Steelers defense if you're an absolute liability against the run.

Finally for all of you proposed geniuses who are obviously so much smarter than Tomlin or Butler. Congratulations. Apparently you're also smarter than the 31 other teams.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYabrQrXt4A


:applaudit: You see obviously they weren't smart like you and didn't bother themselves by checking out Boykin's play as an Eagle.Or better yet they didn't read the all knowing Profootballfocus! Just so easy seeing this guy is a star, how can everyone that actually has a job in the league in a position to find such a gem miss this? :doh:

:sarcasm:

Seriously this is so effing retarded!In a nutshell it comes down to this. Situational players generally look good as long as they remain situational players. The more exposure they get (playing time) the worse they are, often to the point that once they get exposed for what they are they don't even function well anymore in their previous role due to the bruising of their confidence.

problem is this entire theory is built on the premise that Cortez Allen only played nickle before getting a new deal and not playing well on the outside and that is a flawed premise ..

Allen started on the outside in place of an injured Lewis and played very well in that role ( Lewis was filling in for Ike if memory serves , Lewis then went down and in came Cortez ) ...


the other even larger flaw is you are assuming a player who did not get a chance is automatically worse ...

So was Ben worse than Maddox ? I mean Maddox was the starter and Ben was not ready as he was a rookie with zero snaps to his credit ....

Johnny Unitas was clearly not the answer in Pittsburgh ...After college, the Pittsburgh Steelers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Steelers) of the NFL drafted Unitas in the ninth round. However, Unitas was released before the season began as the odd man out among four quarterbacks trying to fill three spots. Steelers Head Coach Walt Kiesling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Kiesling) had made up his mind about Unitas; he thought he was not smart enough to quarterback an NFL team,[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Unitas#cite_note-5) and Unitas was not given any snaps in practice with the Steelers. Among those edging out Unitas was Ted Marchibroda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Marchibroda), future NFL quarterback and longtime NFL head coach. Out of pro football, Unitas—by this time married—worked in construction in Pittsburgh to support his family.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Unitas#cite_note-6) On the weekends, he played quarterback, safety and punter on a local semi-professional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-professional) team called the Bloomfield Rams for $6 a game

Does Lance Moore still play in the NFL ? Yes .... does Justin Brown ? ( NOPE )

but yet you claim somehow the worst Corner in the league was better than Boykin ... sorry I am not a buyer of that logic and from reading through this its pretty clear many others are not as well ..

but not gonna keep beating the dead horse

surely the Steelers know best ....

[Hawkman]

problem is this entire theory is built on the premise that Cortez Allen only played nickle before getting a new deal and not playing well on the outside and that is a flawed premise ..

Allen started on the outside in place of an injured Lewis and played very well in that role ( Lewis was filling in for Ike if memory serves , Lewis then went down and in came Cortez ) ...


the other even larger flaw is you are assuming a player who did not get a chance is automatically worse ...

So was Ben worse than Maddox ? I mean Maddox was the starter and Ben was not ready as he was a rookie with zero snaps to his credit ....

Johnny Unitas was clearly not the answer in Pittsburgh ...After college, the Pittsburgh Steelers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Steelers) of the NFL drafted Unitas in the ninth round. However, Unitas was released before the season began as the odd man out among four quarterbacks trying to fill three spots. Steelers Head Coach Walt Kiesling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Kiesling) had made up his mind about Unitas; he thought he was not smart enough to quarterback an NFL team,[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Unitas#cite_note-5) and Unitas was not given any snaps in practice with the Steelers. Among those edging out Unitas was Ted Marchibroda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Marchibroda), future NFL quarterback and longtime NFL head coach. Out of pro football, Unitas—by this time married—worked in construction in Pittsburgh to support his family.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Unitas#cite_note-6) On the weekends, he played quarterback, safety and punter on a local semi-professional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-professional) team called the Bloomfield Rams for $6 a game

Does Lance Moore still play in the NFL ? Yes .... does Justin Brown ? ( NOPE )

but yet you claim somehow the worst Corner in the league was better than Boykin ... sorry I am not a buyer of that logic and from reading through this its pretty clear many others are not as well ..

but not gonna keep beating the dead horse

surely the Steelers know best ....

REALLY????........ Seems that is what you are doing.

[fansince'76]

I've put the Boykin/Blake "milk" behind me.

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/couples/files/2014/02/spilled-milk.jpg

:chuckle:

[steelreserve]

I mean this sort of nonsense that Boykin would have stepped in for Blake and been a primary lock down corner puts me in mind of the idiots who back in the day came to the conclusion that "Famous Amos" Zeroue was a better back than Bettis because Amos averaged 5 yards per carry being a situational back. :doh: (of course once JB was injured and Amos was put in position of primary back he was exposed as being fairly worthless.)

Nobody is saying Boykin would be a "lockdown corner" or that he's some sort of Superman who would fix all the defense's problems. Just that he would be better than Blake. Again: WORST SEASON BY A CORNERBACK IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME. I really don't know why you keep pursuing your defense of Blake; you do not even have half a leg to stand on.

Also, let's not ignore the fact that Boykin was in no way "limited to 15-20 snaps a game, all on obvious passing downs." Where do you even get that nonsense? Once they decided to start using him, he was regularly playing 40+ snaps a game, just as much as the other cornerbacks, and you can look that up easily.

The nickel corner does not "only" cover the team's worst receiver, unless your opponent has a brain-dead offensive coordinator who never uses motion or unbalanced formations, and just says "welp, here's our offense, just line up however you like and we won't try to cause you any problems!" They are ALWAYS trying to create a mismatch. And who did they go after? Blake, not Boykin. That should tell you something. You know, since all 32 teams have coaches who are infinitely smarter than us, etc., etc.



Finally for all of you proposed geniuses who are obviously so much smarter than Tomlin or Butler. Congratulations. Apparently you're also smarter than the 31 other teams.

"Hitler! Hitler! You're like Hitler!"

That's how tired that argument is, and it contributes about the same amount to the conversation.

Please stop doing that; all it says is that you are out of things to say, so instead you'll defend your position by using worn-out cliches that make you come off as a condescending prick. Just thought you should know that's how you look.

[86WARD]

Lol.

[Hawkman]

Wow! A lot of name calling in this thread. Glad Zu has thick skin.

[fansince'76]

the other even larger flaw is you are assuming a player who did not get a chance is automatically worse ...

So was Ben worse than Maddox ? I mean Maddox was the starter and Ben was not ready as he was a rookie with zero snaps to his credit ....

IMO, this is a pretty poor example. If Maddox hadn't gotten hurt, God only knows how long Roethlisberger would have rotted on the bench with Cowher still around, especially after Dan Rooney pulled rank on Cowher in the team's war room to draft Ben.

Ben didn't get into the action because Cowher all of a sudden had an epiphany that Maddox (by that time) fairly obviously sucked - it took Maddox damn near being turned into a paraplegic by the Ravens for that to happen.

And isn't that one of the big complaints about Tomlin's personnel management - that it basically takes an injury for him to finally go to the better option? And I'm not even going to start about how long Harrison was forced to ride the pine...

[Mojouw]

Cockrell arrived after Boykin in training camp last year and he was a starter in week 1.....This is not an excuse for me.

Boykin was productive in Philadelphia(6 INT in 2013), Blake has never been productive in the NFL.

Maybe Cockrell is smarter than Boykin? Maybe Boykin is like hyper-dumb. There is a pretty damn consistent pattern with the Steelers and the "mysteries" of playing time.

Lance Moore sat for Justin Brown. It came out that Moore didn't know the system as well as the coaches wanted.
Bryant sat for half his rookie year. Why? He didn't learn the offense until about halfway through.
Heyward only played in certain situations his first year or so? Why? Learning the system and the way the Steelers wanted their Dlineman to operate. Same with Tuitt.
Will Allen plays over Shamarko Thomas. Why? Shamarko is a moron.
Cam Thomas sees the field over McCullers and others. Why? He can be counted on to at least attempt to get to the proper place.

I could go on and on and on. Tomlin and his coaching staff have demonstrated that they will ALWAYS play the player they feel knows the system and role over a potentially more talented player that does not have the mental aspect of the game down to their satisfaction. They really only violate this principle when injury forces their hand.

Call it arrogance, call it ego, call it whatever you would like. But all the head scratching and hand wringing about it seems a bit played out.

[Dwinsgames]

IMO, this is a pretty poor example. If Maddox hadn't gotten hurt, God only knows how long Roethlisberger would have rotted on the bench with Cowher still around, especially after Dan Rooney pulled rank on Cowher in the team's war room to draft Ben.

Ben didn't get into the action because Cowher all of a sudden had an epiphany that Maddox (by that time) fairly obviously sucked - it took Maddox damn near being turned into a paraplegic by the Ravens for that to happen.

And isn't that one of the big complaints about Tomlin's personnel management - that it basically takes an injury for him to finally go to the better option? And I'm not even going to start about how long Harrison was forced to ride the pine...


yes and was part of the point , perhaps I did not clarify it enough ..

Blake was clearly hurt ( and sucking ) and Tomlin still trotted him out there a large percentage of the snaps

[teegre]

"Hitler! Hitler! You're like Hitler!"


Somewhere... TAPES18N1 is fapping to those words.

[zulater]

Nobody is saying Boykin would be a "lockdown corner" or that he's some sort of Superman who would fix all the defense's problems. Just that he would be better than Blake. Again: WORST SEASON BY A CORNERBACK IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME. I really don't know why you keep pursuing your defense of Blake; you do not even have half a leg to stand on.

Also, let's not ignore the fact that Boykin was in no way "limited to 15-20 snaps a game, all on obvious passing downs." Where do you even get that nonsense? Once they decided to start using him, he was regularly playing 40+ snaps a game, just as much as the other cornerbacks, and you can look that up easily.

The nickel corner does not "only" cover the team's worst receiver, unless your opponent has a brain-dead offensive coordinator who never uses motion or unbalanced formations, and just says "welp, here's our offense, just line up however you like and we won't try to cause you any problems!" They are ALWAYS trying to create a mismatch. And who did they go after? Blake, not Boykin. That should tell you something. You know, since all 32 teams have coaches who are infinitely smarter than us, etc., etc.




"Hitler! Hitler! You're like Hitler!"

That's how tired that argument is, and it contributes about the same amount to the conversation.

Please stop doing that; all it says is that you are out of things to say, so instead you'll defend your position by using worn-out cliches that make you come off as a condescending prick. Just thought you should know that's how you look.


Seriously Hitler? Nothing you ever say will be worth my time again.

[hawaiiansteeler]

"Hitler! Hitler! You're like Hitler!"



Godwin's law

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Godwin's law is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches — that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

Promulgated by American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990, Godwin's law originally referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions. It is now applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms, and comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles, and other rhetoric.

In 2012, "Godwin's law" became an entry in the third edition of the Oxford English Dictionary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[zulater]

It is the same coaching staff that has put Justin Brown before Lance Moore as the 3rd WR for first 6 games in 2014 and the offense was atrocious in the first 6 games with the exception of the first half against the Browns in week 1 and the game against the Panthers.


Same thing in 2013 when Cam Heyward was on the bench behind Ziggy Hood for the first 4 games of the season.

For Brandon Boykin with the panthers, I think the Panthers will love him and Blake will be hated by the fans in Tennesse.

Here's my thing. I start from the standpoint that Tomlin isn't an idiot and has a greater understanding of his team than I do or any of my fellow Steeler fans. That's not to say that he's always right, because obviously that's not true of anyone. But what I do always believe to be true is that even when I don't understand what he's doing there's got to be a logical root to it, and I just try to see it from his perspective the best I can with that in mind. I mean who benefits more from the Steelers success and suffers more from their failure, us or Tomlin? You really think he's just shooting darts at a board to divvy up playing time among his db's?

To the best of my knowledge no one has ever reported a personal riff between Boykin and any member of the coaching staff, in fact I've seen several stories where Boykin praises Tomlin by name. This from a guy who had no problem letting his ill feelings towards former Eagle coach Chip Kelly out to the public. So whatever the deal with his playing time evolved from I'm convinced that it was done because the coaches concluded it was the best thing for the team at the time, not due to a personality conflict or an alleged doghouse.

And maybe I'm wrong for thinking this, and call me a homer if you want, but I think it's a given that Tomlin has a lot more relevant information at his disposal to make these decisions than any of us. So way more often than not I'll give him the benefit of the doubt over fans, media, and analytical websites. Guess I'm stupid that way! :doh:

[Born2Steel]

And in an unrelated new story line.....The Panthers have inquired if the Steelers would be willing to trade a conditional 2017 5th round pick for CB Brandon Boykin back....

[Dwinsgames]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/706913202458783745/y3wRmkht_bigger.jpg Brandon Boykin Verified account ‏@BrandonBoykin2 (https://twitter.com/BrandonBoykin2)


@Steelersdepot (https://twitter.com/Steelersdepot) your speculation has to stop. Bren wrong in every aspect all yr. turned down 2 mil to go to a place where I can play fairly.


Jeremy Fowler ‏@JFowlerESPN (https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN) Feb 11 (https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/697818670534422528)

.@PFF (https://twitter.com/PFF) placed Brandon Boykin as the No. 10 corner, citing productive play once he got in Pittsburgh’s rotation late in year.



@Steelersdepot (https://twitter.com/Steelersdepot) I'm sure a lot of players did for themselves. That's the NFL. what happened in pitt surely didn't help me. Just wait tho..

[zulater]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/706913202458783745/y3wRmkht_bigger.jpg Brandon Boykin Verified account ‏@BrandonBoykin2 (https://twitter.com/BrandonBoykin2)


@Steelersdepot (https://twitter.com/Steelersdepot) your speculation has to stop. Bren wrong in every aspect all yr. turned down 2 mil to go to a place where I can play fairly.


Jeremy Fowler ‏@JFowlerESPN (https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN) Feb 11 (https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/697818670534422528)

.@PFF (https://twitter.com/PFF) placed Brandon Boykin as the No. 10 corner, citing productive play once he got in Pittsburgh’s rotation late in year.



@Steelersdepot (https://twitter.com/Steelersdepot) I'm sure a lot of players did for themselves. That's the NFL. what happened in pitt surely didn't help me. Just wait tho..


Serious question. Do you think Boykin is a better cornerback than Tomlin is a head coach?

[Count Steeler]

Not that thick. I think he deserves a suspension from the board. You just don't call someone Hitler three times in blown up caps like that over a effing stupid football disagreement!

Seriously I've seen Hitler thrown out in political discussions, but never in all my years have I seen Hitler tossed into a sports argument in that sort of way! Just staggering the stupidity it takes to go there like that no matter how strong your disagreement is on a football board! :frusty: :doh:

He did not call you Hitler. He is stating that your post has the same effect of calling someone Hitler. He is asserting that your statement or crying out "You're Hitler" does not advance the discussion, in essence it makes you come off looking like a condescending prick.

However, steelreserve and Zulater, you are both long time members, please take it down a notch.

- - - Updated - - -


Serious question. Do you think Boykin is a better cornerback than Tomlin is a head coach?

Not even close.

[steelreserve]

Not that thick. I think he deserves a suspension from the board. You just don't call someone Hitler three times in blown up caps like that over a effing stupid football disagreement!

Seriously I've seen Hitler thrown out in political discussions, but never in all my years have I seen Hitler tossed into a sports argument in that sort of way! Just staggering the stupidity it takes to go there like that no matter how strong your disagreement is on a football board! :frusty: :doh:


The point was that using "We're just fans, the coaches know more than us and therefore what you say is invalid" is just as much of a worn-out, go-to cliche argument on a football message board as invoking a Hitler comparison is in a political argument. All it does is say that the person using it is just there to be stubborn.

Nobody is calling you Hitler. Just pointing out that the football equivalent of Godwin's Law applies to you, for using the coaches-are-smarter-than-us cliche. The corollary to Godwin's law is that the first person to bring up a comparison to Hitler or Nazi Germany automatically loses all credibility, which I think is about the status of the coaches-are-smarter cliche as well.

[zulater]

He did not call you Hitler. He is stating that your post has the same effect of calling someone Hitler. He is asserting that your statement or crying out "You're Hitler" does not advance the discussion, in essence it makes you come off looking like a condescending prick.

However, steelreserve and Zulater, you are both long time members, please take it down a notch.

- - - Updated - - -



Not even close.

I disagree. You just don't drop Hitler into the discussion three times in huge caps directing it towards someone without trying to stain them personally with that word. I take it as a vile personal attack. I understand the nuance you're suggesting but you can make the point you feel someone is being condescending without yelling Hitler 3 times!

I think that post should be removed from the board at the very least. I've seen far less offensive posts removed in the past.

[Craic]

Cockrell arrived after Boykin in training camp last year and he was a starter in week 1.....This is not an excuse for me.

Boykin was productive in Philadelphia(6 INT in 2013), Blake has never been productive in the NFL.

Except that, once Boykin got to the Steelers camp, he couldn't figure out what to do, and couldn't learn the plays until December. See below


Here (http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Boykin-finding-ways-to-make-plays/44b7ab56-6d70-4e24-8a8e-f9a110d996be) Note the date on that. JAN 1, 2016!!!!

In other words . . . It took Boykin almost ALL SEASON LONG just to learn the defense. And you still wanted him to play? No thank you. Once he knew the defense well enough to see the field, he played at the first opportunity he got.

Cockrell coming in after Boyking and starting in week one doesn't mean the statement is wrong; it means Cockrell could pick up the playbook and gameplan, and Boykin kept making stupid mistakes in practice showing he hadn't learned it.

All of this reminds me of a saying about two decades ago in the NFL: the most beloved player on almost any football is the backup QB. Why? Because if we just got him in there instead of that Bum XXXX, we'd win games!

[zulater]

The point was that using "We're just fans, the coaches know more than us and therefore what you say is invalid" is just as much of a worn-out, go-to cliche argument on a football message board as invoking a Hitler comparison is in a political argument. All it does is say that the person using it is just there to be stubborn.

Nobody is calling you Hitler. Just pointing out that the football equivalent of Godwin's Law applies to you, for using the coaches-are-smarter-than-us cliche. The corollary to Godwin's law is that the first person to bring up a comparison to Hitler or Nazi Germany automatically loses all credibility, which I think is about the status of the coaches-are-smarter cliche as well.


It comes more along the lines that I don't think Tomlin is a moron. That he's not Rich Kotite or Rob Ryan who don't deserve the presumption of being right in questionable circumstances.

And also why isn't it fair to point to the rest of the league's lukewarm response to Boykin in free agency to support the notion that the fans are probably missing something here?

[Dwinsgames]

It comes more along the lines that I don't think Tomlin is a moron. That he's not Rich Kotite or Rob Ryan who don't deserve the presumption of being right in questionable circumstances.

And also why isn't it fair to point to the rest of the league's lukewarm response to Boykin in free agency to support the notion that the fans are probably missing something here?


the bottom line is this I guess ....


did we or did we not see improved play in the secondary when Boykin was on the field ?

was the team better in Blakes absence from the field ?

answer yes to either one of those questions and you have proved what I have been saying all along ... nothing more nothing less

if you answer yes to both then you have little choice but to question the coaching staff ... and I have answered yes to both so I must question them

[zulater]

the bottom line is this I guess ....


did we or did we not see improved play in the secondary when Boykin was on the field ?

was the team better in Blakes absence from the field ?

answer yes to either one of those questions and you have proved what I have been saying all along ... nothing more nothing less

if you answer yes to both then you have little choice but to question the coaching staff ... and I have answered yes to both so I must question them


I think Craic has addressed those questions already. I'm in agreement with him in that what Boykin offered later in the season wasn't necessarily going to be true had he played earlier in the season.

[Dwinsgames]

I think Craic has addressed those questions already. I'm in agreement with him in that what Boykin offered later in the season wasn't necessarily going to be true had he played earlier in the season.

that is surmised and 1 quote from a new coordinator that needed to potentially cover his ass to save face , sorry not buying into that as Boykin is a an educated young man ( perhaps more so than the coach who is quoted ) Boykin achieved academic honor role in College so far from the dummy he is being made out to be


http://www.georgiadogs.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/boykin_brandon02.html

[steelreserve]

It comes more along the lines that I don't think Tomlin is a moron. That he's not Rich Kotite or Rob Ryan who don't deserve the presumption of being right in questionable circumstances.

And also why isn't it fair to point to the rest of the league's lukewarm response to Boykin in free agency to support the notion that the fans are probably missing something here?


Tomlin isn't a moron; I've come around to finally grudgingly admitting he's at least a decent coach, and after a rough start with drafting and player development seems to have mostly gotten the hang of things. But he has his faults, which include a tendency to randomly stick with a guy who is just not getting it done. This was by far the worst example of that I have seen.

As for Boykin's value around the league, I have no idea what's behind that. Possibly the low amount of playing time made teams nervous to commit to a big amount of money, although who knows. Statistically and from the uneducated "eye test," he was not bad when he did see the field. That one really is something we can only speculate on.

[zulater]

that is surmised and 1 quote from a new coordinator that needed to potentially cover his ass to save face , sorry not buying into that as Boykin is a an educated young man ( perhaps more so than the coach who is quoted ) Boykin achieved academic honor role in College so far from the dummy he is being made out to be


http://www.georgiadogs.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/boykin_brandon02.html

Academic smarts and football sense don't always go hand in hand. Alex Smith and Todd Fitzgerald probably own the highest wonderlic scores in the league and both have been known to make some pretty poor choices on the field under duress.

And getting something I alluded to earlier, according to the beat reporters Boykin's biggest problem on the practice field was he couldn't stay on his feet. Sounds strange I know but ask any of them, Lolley, Bouchette, DK, Dulac, Wexford, etc... Boykin reportedly had an annoying habit of falling down often and at inopportune times on the practice field. Some players play better than they practice, maybe Boykin's one of those?

One other thing to consider too. Going down the stretch the Steelers defense would almost had to have improved because after our loss to the Seahawks we pretty much faced one crappy qb after the other. Colts - Hasselback, Bengals Daulton goes out first series, Broncos - Brock Osweiller, Ravens and Browns last two weeks? I forget? :lol:

Not exactly a muderers row of qb's we were facing, so any defensive improvement late in the season was partially a mirage imo.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Again I think the point people are missing is that a nickle corner and your primary corner are two different things.

I guarantee you that if you limited Blake to 15-20 snaps a game, on all obvious passing downs, and lined him up against the 3rd or 4th best receiver from the other team he would have looked fine. Probably better than Boykin.

Similar to Cortez Allen, when Allen was your nickel corner he looked like a genuine up and comer. Get this guy more snaps, he needs to be a bigger part of the defense. So how did that work out?

It was a huge step up in class. A major difference between covering a teams best receiver on every down and covering their 3rd guy on obvious passing downs 15 times.

Blake got burned several times on play action passes. Boykin was rarely if ever put in position to even guard against the possibility of a run.

So here's what I think. For a combination of reasons the Steelers coaching staff came to the conclusion that Brandon Boykin wasn't capable of lining up 40+ snaps a game against mostly other teams x and y receiver. Not only having the responsibility of limiting the receivers lined up against him for that number of downs, but also recognizing when it was a running play and controlling his area of the field in the case of a jail break.

I mean this sort of nonsense that Boykin would have stepped in for Blake and been a primary lock down corner puts me in mind of the idiots who back in the day came to the conclusion that "Famous Amos" Zeroue was a better back than Bettis because Amos averaged 5 yards per carry being a situational back. :doh: (of course once JB was injured and Amos was put in position of primary back he was exposed as being fairly worthless.)

So folks figure it out, situational players can shine as long as they remain situational players. Occasionally one will step up to a primary role and succeed. But my guess is that Boykin wont be one of them. He was the second best nickle back (to Gay) which made him the 4th corner( aka dime back), on a team that didn't allot a great number of snaps to that player. Or at least early in the season they didn't.

Do I think the upgrade of the draft position dependent on Boykin's allocation of snaps played into his lack of early playing time? Possible, but I can't or wont say so with any certainty. Yeah it's open to speculation, but I can't believe if the Steelers saw him as a serious upgrade to what they were putting out there they would have kept him off the field.

Now as far as him being slow in picking up the defense? Again I don't know? The thing I kept hearing was that in practice he couldn't stay upright on running plays. Every time a run came his way he would lose his feet and /or be easily blocked. You can't be anything more than a nickel or dime back in the Steelers defense if you're an absolute liability against the run.

Finally for all of you proposed geniuses who are obviously so much smarter than Tomlin or Butler. Congratulations. Apparently you're also smarter than the 31 other teams.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYabrQrXt4A


:applaudit: You see obviously they weren't smart like you and didn't bother themselves by checking out Boykin's play as an Eagle.Or better yet they didn't read the all knowing Profootballfocus! Just so easy seeing this guy is a star, how can everyone that actually has a job in the league in a position to find such a gem miss this? :doh:

:sarcasm:

Seriously this is so effing retarded!In a nutshell it comes down to this. Situational players generally look good as long as they remain situational players. The more exposure they get (playing time) the worse they are, often to the point that once they get exposed for what they are they don't even function well anymore in their previous role due to the bruising of their confidence.

wtf is all this. just because you're playing nickel doesn't mean you're playing against the 3rd-4th best receiver on the other team. You can very well be playing against the top opposing receivers

and for crying out loud, Boykin allowed a QB rating of 65 for the final 5 games of the season. thats better than anything Blake has ever done by a light year

[zulater]

wtf is all this. just because you're playing nickel doesn't mean you're playing against the 3rd-4th best receiver on the other team. You can very well be playing against the top opposing receivers


Yeah you can be, but not for 40+ snaps a game. If you got NFL rewind chart how many times Blake gets coverage on the other teams top two receivers and compare it to Gay and Boykin. There's a huge difference. And again being a 3 down player means you also need to pay attention to the run more than a nickel corner will have to.

Look I'm glad Blake's gone. He wasn't good enough. But this absolute assertion by the Boykin fan club that he would have been as good or better in Blake's place defies common sense. I just don't think Tomlin is missing something that obvious. I think he played Blake because his other options weren't any good either.

I think Blake in a limited role probably would have become a fan favorite instead of the village idiot.

But feel free to think as you like, if you believe Tomlin is stupid or deliberately sabotage's the team because of unstated personality conflicts by all means rock on!

[pczach]

Yeah you can be, but not for 40+ snaps a game. If you got NFL rewind chart how many times Blake gets coverage on the other teams top two receivers and compare it to Gay and Boykin. There's a huge difference. And again being a 3 down player means you also need to pay attention to the run more than a nickel corner will have to.

Look I'm glad Blake's gone. He wasn't good enough. But this absolute assertion by the Boykin fan club that he would have been as good or better in Blake's place defies common sense. I just don't think Tomlin is missing something that obvious. I think he played Blake because his other options weren't any good either.

I think Blake in a limited role probably would have become a fan favorite instead of the village idiot.

But feel free to think as you like, if you believe Tomlin is stupid or deliberately sabotage's the team because of unstated personality conflicts by all means rock on!


I was for playing Boykin in the slot, and moving Gay outside with Cockrell. They were a much better secondary late in the year with those three on the field and Blake on the bench. Maybe some wanted him to replace Blake outside, but most knowledgeable fans wanted Boykin playing his natural position as slot corner, and Gay moving out of the slot to play outside.

I think that made the most sense, and we saw the results of that late in the year.

[katmandu]

I refuse to believe that Tomlin, or anyone else on our coaching staff, deliberately didn't play any player because they(the coach) didn't like them(the player), personally. If the coaches had a problem with Boykin it was game play related. Period!I don't know about that.

I remember reading the front office wanted Boykin and the coaching staff did not.

[zulater]

I was for playing Boykin in the slot, and moving Gay outside with Cockrell. They were a much better secondary late in the year with those three on the field and Blake on the bench. Maybe some wanted him to replace Blake outside, but most knowledgeable fans wanted Boykin playing his natural position as slot corner, and Gay moving out of the slot to play outside.

I think that made the most sense, and we saw the results of that late in the year.

Late in the year like when we let Ryan Mallet beat us a week after signing with the Ravens? Or maybe we should be blown away by shutting down Austin Davis and the high powered Browns to end the regular season?

I'm sorry to keep being the contrarian, but the fact is we didn't face a qb worth two shits anytime after our week 13 game when we got torched by Russell Wilson and the Seahawks. So maybe the late season turnaround came as a result of facing a weekly parade of back up qb's?

Look I'm not going to tell you Tomlin handled Boykin 100% correctly. But he didn't botch it to the extent that's popularly believed either for reasons already stated. The "taint" of Boykin's single season in Pittsburgh will not be what define's Mike Tomlin to me, now or in the future.

Goodnight and goodbye!

[pczach]

Late in the year like when we let Ryan Mallet beat us a week after signing with the Ravens? Or maybe we should be blown away by shutting down Austin Davis and the high powered Browns to end the regular season?

I'm sorry to keep being the contrarian, but the fact is we didn't face a qb worth two shits anytime after our week 13 game when we got torched by Russell Wilson and the Seahawks. So maybe the late season turnaround came as a result of facing a weekly parade of back up qb's?

Look I'm not going to tell you Tomlin handled Boykin 100% correctly. But he didn't botch it to the extent that's popularly believed either for reasons already stated. The "taint" of Boykin's single season in Pittsburgh will not be what define's Mike Tomlin to me, now or in the future.

Goodnight and goodbye!


There were many examples late in the year when they kept starting Blake, and they got torched in the first half. They inserted Boykin into the starting lineup in the second half and kick Gay outside......and magically the secondary played much better in the second half. That's the second half of the same game, and a comparison with Blake starting....and without him starting in the same game and against the same quarterback.

That's as clear an example as you can have. One half with him in the game........one half with him out of the game. The secondary was much better without him every time.

It doesn't matter who the opposing quarterback was. The secondary played better when he wasn't in the game playing against the same quarterback in the second half.

I'm not judging Mike Tomlin's career on what happened with Blake.....I'm simply commenting on the performance of the players on the field....period. It was obvious.

[steelreserve]

I am pretty sure the team would have been better off if I had personally replaced Blake on the roster as the opening-day starter. That way it would've been so obvious after about two series that the starting cornerback was in over his head that they'd have no choice but to put in someone who knew what the hell he was doing instead.

BAM! 15 and a half games of painful misery wiped off the books. Plus, since that would've been the Patriots game - having nothing to lose, on the way off the field I could trip Tom Brady and shove a helmet up his ass. I would be willing to do this for free.

[NCSteeler]

Boykin playing slot next to Keuckly and inside of Norman, is set up to have a super career year . he'll cash in next off season

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

[hawaiiansteeler]

Brandon Boykin On 2015 Season With Steelers: ‘It Was Really, Really, Really, Truly Tough’

BY DAVE BRYAN MARCH 30, 2016

The Carolina Panthers signed cornerback Brandon Boykin to a one-year, $840,000 contract on Monday and Tuesday night the Georgia product was a guest on SiriusXM NFL Radio, and he was asked to talk about his new team, which will be his third in three seasons.

“That’s one of the things that was talked about early in my free agency process is somewhere that will be a really good fit for me and I’m sure people have said it, but I wanted to be in Carolina,” said Boykin. “That was one of the top choices for me. So going through the process, I wasn’t really sure if they were interested until we started talking to them and the communication was for days and then we started working it out. So I’m excited it worked out how it did.”

Even though Boykin ultimately wound up signing for the minimum plus an $80,000 signing bonus, he stood firm on his previous comments that not only could he have signed elsewhere for more money, but also that several other teams were interested in his services.

“We were talking to a ton of teams and for me, going through what I did last year, I had to kind of weigh what was most important for me and my career,” said Boykin. “And I thought going and chasing the money is great, like going to find the team that gave me the most money, but for me, this year is crucial for me. I have to be on a team that gives me the best fit, because last year I made a good amount of money, made almost $2 million dollars and sat on the bench for 10 weeks. So my career can’t afford to chase the money and it not be the best opportunity for me.”

After the way Boykin’s 2015 season played out with the Pittsburgh Steelers, it was obvious that he wasn’t going to re-sign with them this offseason. Boykin, who the Steelers acquired via a trade with the Philadelphia Eagles during last year’s training camp, was asked to talk about his 2015 season and why he didn’t get to play as much as he would have liked.

“Honestly, it was really, really, really, truly tough,” said Boykin. “I just was a guy that was trying to get better knowing it was going to get better, knowing at some point it was going to end. It was a frustrating year from doing everything you possibly could do right in practice and people on your team knowing you are balling and you making acrobatic plays, but you just not playing.

“So, I just had to kind of sit back and look at what I wanted the rest of my career to look like. I could have went off and went crazy and started saying crazy stuff and it just wouldn’t have been good for me. It wouldn’t have ultimately helped me end up where I am now for sure. And all I needed was another opportunity and going off and doing crazy stuff wouldn’t help me get that.”

As for where he expects to play in 2016 with the Panthers, Boykin said he believes he’ll be given a shot at being an every-down player in Carolina.

“Definitely nickel where I’ve been productive and definitely outside,” said Boykin. “They told me they view me as a guy in the mold that can play corner for them. I’ve got all of the qualities, the athletic ability and the things that they look for in outside guys and I’ve been productive at nickel. So I’ll have the ability to do both and compete, and if I’m the best at corner then I’ll be able to play both, and if I’m the best nickel I’ll play there. But really it’s just about me actually having that opportunity to be able to be in and play from day one, because I need that.”

As I wrote on Tuesday, I’m still really surprised that Boykin’s market value this offseason was as low as it was. I’m not surprised, however, that he is still frustrated with the way things went down last season with the Steelers. In closing, it’s probably good for him that he only signed a one-year deal with the Panthers because if he plays as much as he thinks he will in 2016 and as good as he thinks he can, he should then be able to cash-in next offseason during free agency.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/brandon-boykin-2015-season-steelers-really-really-really-truly-tough/

[tube517]

Sen Golson, Wil Gay, Dor Grant, etc. Whatever works!! :chuckle:

Ant Blake didn't work :chuckle:

[fansince'76]

Ant Blake didn't work :chuckle:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/11/26/article-1089560-029AA23D000005DC-472_306x438.jpg

:chuckle:

[Psycho Ward 86]

Yeah you can be, but not for 40+ snaps a game. If you got NFL rewind chart how many times Blake gets coverage on the other teams top two receivers and compare it to Gay and Boykin. There's a huge difference. And again being a 3 down player means you also need to pay attention to the run more than a nickel corner will have to.

Look I'm glad Blake's gone. He wasn't good enough. But this absolute assertion by the Boykin fan club that he would have been as good or better in Blake's place defies common sense. I just don't think Tomlin is missing something that obvious. I think he played Blake because his other options weren't any good either.

I think Blake in a limited role probably would have become a fan favorite instead of the village idiot.

But feel free to think as you like, if you believe Tomlin is stupid or deliberately sabotage's the team because of unstated personality conflicts by all means rock on!

You aren't saying it, but it seems like you're insinuating it:

Do you honestly believe Blake could be anywhere near as good as Boykin in a limited role? We've already seen what both look like in a limited role...(Blake from last season and Boykin as maybe the top slot corner in the league with the Eagles)

[zulater]

You aren't saying it, but it seems like you're insinuating it:

Do you honestly believe Blake could be anywhere near as good as Boykin in a limited role? We've already seen what both look like in a limited role...(Blake from last season and Boykin as maybe the top slot corner in the league with the Eagles)

Me? Who am I to say?

Tomlin? He spoke, but no one seems to value his opinion.

The collective of the other 31 NFL teams? They seem to think otherwise than you by their actions.

But again PFF and message board posters know better than Tomlin or the league. Makes sense to me. :crazy:

Are we really suggesting the "top slot corner in the league" couldn't sell his wares better than for veteran minimum?

[teegre]

Brandon Boykin's tears cure cancer.

Alas, Brandon Boykin doesn't cry.

[zulater]

Maybe Boykin turns out to be this years DeAngelo Williams? I'm not here to hate on him.

But I'm also not taking PFF's word over Mike Tomlin and the collective of the 31 other NFL teams. They seem to feel Mr. Boykin isn't all that great. Yeah I know he supposedly turned down more money elsewhere. But even if that's true (which I doubt) it seems NFL teams aren't exactly falling over themselves for Brandon's services. This in a league predicated on passing and stopping the pass.

We'll see how it goes this year I suppose.

[86WARD]

Brandon Boykin was better than Rod Woodson and Mel Blount put together...:nw:

You're being silly now...he wasn't better than Woodson.

[Born2Steel]

Brandon Boykin was better than Rod Woodson and Mel Blount put together...:nw:


You callin' Woodson and Blount slot corners??? Why I outta......:buttkick:

[Psycho Ward 86]

Maybe Boykin turns out to be this years DeAngelo Williams? I'm not here to hate on him.

But I'm also not taking PFF's word over Mike Tomlin and the collective of the 31 other NFL teams. They seem to feel Mr. Boykin isn't all that great. Yeah I know he supposedly turned down more money elsewhere. But even if that's true (which I doubt) it seems NFL teams aren't exactly falling over themselves for Brandon's services. This in a league predicated on passing and stopping the pass.

We'll see how it goes this year I suppose.

dude. great players fall through the cracks in free agency sometimes. he's one of those aberrants from this years free agency class. in case you havent noticed, this team has probably been among the worst teams at evaluating DB's in the same span of time that we've been one of the best at evaluating wide receivers

[zulater]

dude. great players fall through the cracks in free agency sometimes. he's one of those aberrants from this years free agency class. in case you havent noticed, this team has probably been among the worst teams at evaluating DB's in the same span of time that we've been one of the best at evaluating wide receivers

That's your opinion, not established fact. I think we need to see how he actually plays in Carolina to make that determination.

And yes the Steelers have done a substandard job procuring talent in the defensive backfield for quite some time now. And as you point out it's quite a contrast to the way they identify top young receivers and develop them. But it's not as if the exiting db's from the Steelers have proved to be a good pipeline for the rest of the league. WE let the one kid get away to New Orleans, but I think the Steelers made some effort to keep that player (name escapes me at the moment) and with Boykin it appears the Steelers made no effort to keep him. From what I gather Boykin didn't close the book on the Steelers, if they made him an offer he may have stayed. But even with his so called brilliant play down the stretch (which I attribute more to quality of competition as we faced not one genuine starting qb in our last 7 games, playoffs included) the Steelers had no desire to keep him?

Perhaps they were willfully entrenched in a faulty premise due to some sort of personality conflict? I can't rule it out. :noidea:


Or perhaps they saw something we didn't? Can anyone at least concede they have more film and overall information( i.e. practice performance, interaction with teammates, and film study habits) than we have? Can anyone at least concede that the alleged all knowing Profootballfocus operates with a bit of blind spot when grading as they know neither the specific play call nor each player's designated assignment in said play? In the end I think the Steelers with a wealth more information than fans, national media, and analytical websites did what they believed to be best moving forward. And while conceding their track record with cb's in particular is poor, I still can't get my head around the notion that they're just clueless bumblers who have no idea what a real NFL db looks like?

Sometimes things just go in phases. I mean for example it wasn't that many years ago that we thought the Steelers were clueless in regards to the offensive line. Now they're top 1/3 in the NFL in that area.

So who knows? Maybe things are going to start turning soon with our defensive backfield? And for whatever reason the fixing of the unit wont include Brandon Boykin. And as of now I'm ok with that, but maybe the season will prove the Steelers were wrong on a defensive back once again?

But we wont know that for sure until some meaningful football is played.

[Mojouw]

Honestly, the Steelers are one "impact" DB away from making us all forget everything bad we have said about the secondary. Put an Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu in the current group of dirtballs and everyone starts looking quite a bit better. Or add and Ike Taylor and much of the current troubles goes away.

It is frustrating because there is no scenario, at least not one I can see, where they can plug all the holes on defense in one draft/off season cycle. The Steelers seem to need (no order implied:

1. another quality DE
2. an impactful edge player (and we all know that only 2 guys every 6 years or so are able to impact off the edge as rookies)
3. 2 DBs
4. DT/NT candidates

I just don't see how any team can realistically expect to plug all those holes in one cycle. So the question starts to become, which holes are the most important? Or do they "let the draft come to them" and plug whatever holes their board dictates? Which is the reason that Boykin, Blake, and others were even ever in a Steelers uni to begin with. Last 3 years or so, the Steelers have not "forced" their board and have determined that no DBs worth the pick(s) had trickled down to them.

Maybe this belongs in the draft thread...

[teegre]

Honestly, the Steelers are one "impact" DB away from making us all forget everything bad we have said about the secondary. Put an Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu in the current group of dirtballs and everyone starts looking quite a bit better. Or add and Ike Taylor and much of the current troubles goes away.

It is frustrating because there is no scenario, at least not one I can see, where they can plug all the holes on defense in one draft/off season cycle. The Steelers seem to need (no order implied:

1. another quality DE
2. an impactful edge player (and we all know that only 2 guys every 6 years or so are able to impact off the edge as rookies)
3. 2 DBs
4. DT/NT candidates

I just don't see how any team can realistically expect to plug all those holes in one cycle. So the question starts to become, which holes are the most important? Or do they "let the draft come to them" and plug whatever holes their board dictates? Which is the reason that Boykin, Blake, and others were even ever in a Steelers uni to begin with. Last 3 years or so, the Steelers have not "forced" their board and have determined that no DBs worth the pick(s) had trickled down to them.

Maybe this belongs in the draft thread...

Here's my take: the defense doesn't have to get back to "2008 good"... it merely has to be "good enough". The offense is strong enough to carry the lion's share of the burden.

STEP ONE:
Add a DT/DE early. That should be an upgrade over Cam Thomas. Boom!!!... the defense is better. Not great, but better.

STEP TWO:
Likewise, adding a cornerback (R3), plus adding Senquez Golson, should improve the secondary. Again, not great, but indeed better.

STEP THREE:
A young SS might struggle (Will Allen was savvy), but the improved athleticism (Allen was ineffective) should make this at least a wash... with a chance to be much better by season's end.

[Psycho Ward 86]

That's your opinion, not established fact. I think we need to see how he actually plays in Carolina to make that determination.

And yes the Steelers have done a substandard job procuring talent in the defensive backfield for quite some time now. And as you point out it's quite a contrast to the way they identify top young receivers and develop them. But it's not as if the exiting db's from the Steelers have proved to be a good pipeline for the rest of the league. WE let the one kid get away to New Orleans, but I think the Steelers made some effort to keep that player (name escapes me at the moment) and with Boykin it appears the Steelers made no effort to keep him. From what I gather Boykin didn't close the book on the Steelers, if they made him an offer he may have stayed. But even with his so called brilliant play down the stretch (which I attribute more to quality of competition as we faced not one genuine starting qb in our last 7 games, playoffs included) the Steelers had no desire to keep him?

Perhaps they were willfully entrenched in a faulty premise due to some sort of personality conflict? I can't rule it out. :noidea:


Or perhaps they saw something we didn't? Can anyone at least concede they have more film and overall information( i.e. practice performance, interaction with teammates, and film study habits) than we have? Can anyone at least concede that the alleged all knowing Profootballfocus operates with a bit of blind spot when grading as they know neither the specific play call nor each player's designated assignment in said play? In the end I think the Steelers with a wealth more information than fans, national media, and analytical websites did what they believed to be best moving forward. And while conceding their track record with cb's in particular is poor, I still can't get my head around the notion that they're just clueless bumblers who have no idea what a real NFL db looks like?

Sometimes things just go in phases. I mean for example it wasn't that many years ago that we thought the Steelers were clueless in regards to the offensive line. Now they're top 1/3 in the NFL in that area.

So who knows? Maybe things are going to start turning soon with our defensive backfield? And for whatever reason the fixing of the unit wont include Brandon Boykin. And as of now I'm ok with that, but maybe the season will prove the Steelers were wrong on a defensive back once again?

But we wont know that for sure until some meaningful football is played.

WE HAVE SEEN HIM PLAY ENOUGH TO MAKE THE DETERMINATION THAT HE'S A REALLY GOOD PLAYER. How can you possibly ignore some of the best slot play in the league when he was in Philly. You're literally just reaffirming the fact that most people believe he's not only a talented player, but vastly superior to Blake with some of the statements you're making:

"the Steelers have done a substandard job procuring talent in the defensive backfield for quite some time now"...yeah tell us something we dont know

"But it's not as if the exiting db's from the Steelers have proved to be a good pipeline for the rest of the league"...why did you just backtrack? You're literally admitting that the DB's we pick up/draft suck for us, and suck for everybody. Meaning they just flat out tend to suck.

"WE let the one kid get away to New Orleans, but I think the Steelers made some effort to keep that player (name escapes me at the moment) and with Boykin it appears the Steelers made no effort to keep him"...actually Keenan Lewis stated that the Steelers made no offer to even try to keep him. This was literally a focal point of contention on the board, especially after Cortez Allen sucked it up in his absence. Also, the fact that you dont even remember his name when he was one of the few good corners we've drafted in recent years should tell you something about the efficacy of the cornerbacks we've been picking up. Which you seem to understand, yet deny in a hodgepodge of contradiction. We've let DB's far better than what we have walk in free agency before without making any effort to snag/keep him, whether it be them coming in for a visit (Patrick Robinson who had a career year) or letting a young player in his prime with no offer on the table (Keenan Lewis who kicked off his saints career as pro-bowl caliber by many pundits, and only played poorly when injured), or letting a CB who allowed a QB rating of 65 rot on the bench over a CB who allowed a historic amount of yards, receptions, TD's, and led the league in missed tackles. Also giving Cortez Allen a big contract a season after he got benched for...drumroll please....ANTWON BLAKE.

"From what I gather Boykin didn't close the book on the Steelers, if they made him an offer he may have stayed"...one small problem. We didnt make him an offer.

"I still can't get my head around the notion that they're just clueless bumblers who have no idea what a real NFL db looks like?"....Why not? Isnt that how you end up with one of the worst pass defenses in the league 2 years straight, and middling in years previous to that? Kind of like how most people probably assume we have outstanding scouts and great coaches with an eye for WR talent. Well obviously, the proof is in the pudding.

You cant seriously believe Blake is better at anything over Boykin other than proclaiming that he could be an All-Pro in this league (yes, that really happened. Google is your friend). Boykin actually has years of precedence to being really good, even with idiots like Chip Kelly as his head coach. Blake's finest precedent on this team was in 2014 as a "not completely shitty CB on one of the wort pass defenses in team history."

If you're going to downplay Boykin's play down the stretch and attribute it heavily to the level of offensive competition he faced, then you must feel pretty pessimistic about a number of players on this defense. im going to go out on a limb and say you are somewhat in the minority, whether it's the opinion of steeler fans, other fans, or the coaching staff.

Cant you at least concede the coaches arent ALWAYS right either?

[zulater]

WE HAVE SEEN HIM PLAY ENOUGH TO MAKE THE DETERMINATION THAT HE'S A REALLY GOOD PLAYER. How can you possibly ignore some of the bet slot play in the league when he was in Philly. You're literally just reaffirming the fact that most people believe he's not only a talented player, but vastly superior to Blake with some of the statements you're making:

"the Steelers have done a substandard job procuring talent in the defensive backfield for quite some time now"...yeah tell us something we dont know

"But it's not as if the exiting db's from the Steelers have proved to be a good pipeline for the rest of the league"...why did you just backtrack? You're literally admitting that the DB's we pick up/draft suck for us, and suck for everybody. Meaning they just flat out tend to suck.

"WE let the one kid get away to New Orleans, but I think the Steelers made some effort to keep that player (name escapes me at the moment) and with Boykin it appears the Steelers made no effort to keep him"...actually Keenan Lewis stated that the Steelers made no offer to even try to keep him. This was literally a focal point of contention on the board, especially after Cortez Allen sucked it up in his absence. Also, the fact that you dont even remember his name when he was one of the few good corners we've drafted in recent years should tell you something about the efficacy of the cornerbacks we've been picking up. Which you seem to understand, yet deny in a hodgepodge of contradiction. We've let DB's far better than what we have walk in free agency before without making any effort to snag/keep him, whether it be them coming in for a visit (Patrick Robinson who had a career year) or letting a young player in his prime with no offer on the table (Keenan Lewis who kicked off his saints career as pro-bowl caliber by many pundits, and only played poorly when injured), or letting a CB who allowed a QB rating of 65 rot on the bench over a CB who allowed a historic amount of yards, receptions, TD's, and led the league in missed tackles. Also giving Cortez Allen a big contract a season after he got benched for...drumroll please....ANTWON BLAKE.

"From what I gather Boykin didn't close the book on the Steelers, if they made him an offer he may have stayed"...one small problem. We didnt make him an offer.

"I still can't get my head around the notion that they're just clueless bumblers who have no idea what a real NFL db looks like?"....Why not? Isnt that how you end up with one of the worst pass defenses in the league 2 years straight, and middling in years previous to that? Kind of like how most people probably assume we have outstanding scouts and great coaches with an eye for WR talent. Well obviously, the proof is in the pudding.

You cant seriously believe Blake is better at anything over Boykin other than proclaiming that he could be an All-Pro in this league (yes, that really happened. Google is your friend). Boykin actually has years of precedence to being really good, even with idiots like Chip Kelly as his head coach. Blake's finest precedent on this team was in 2014 as a "not completely shitty CB on one of the wort pass defenses in team history."

I you're going to downplay Boykin's play down the stretch and attribute it heavily to the level of offensive competition he faced, then you must feel pretty pessimistic about a number of players on this defense. im going to go out on a limb and say you are somewhat in the minority, whether it's the opinion of steeler fans, other fans, or the coaching staff.

Cant you at least concede the coaches arent ALWAYS right either?

I think I have conceded the coaches aren't always right.Many many times over the years. What I wont concede is that they just ran Boykin out of town for fun or on a whim, that they applied zero logic to who they played and when they played them.

Does Tomlin have a greater vested interest in Steeler success or failure than fans?

If so then please explain why he without a single valid reason handled things as he did with Boykin? You have no sense that there possibly could be something you don't know or are missing to this equation?

For years biologists thought mamma crocs were cannibalizing their hatching's. Turns out they were wrong, the mothers were cradling the babies from the nest to the water where their chance for survival was greater. Seems a lot of birds and land predators pick off the babies before they make water otherwise.

Can you see my point? Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean there wasn't rationale thought put into the process. If something seems contrary to nature's basic survivor instinct(i.e. a coach's need to produce wins) it likely means you're missing a piece or several pieces of the puzzle. And only with the full complement of information can the incomprehensible be rationalized.

So yes Tomlin and all coaches make mistakes. But fans and analytical websites makes many more mistakes than coaches because they lack the wealth of information that coaches have readily at hand.

I believe we don't have the full story. I don't think Tomlin gives a shit that we don't, therefore it will never be readily apparent what all transpired. And as long as his bosses are satisfied with what he's doing and the results he's getting then why should he cares what we think we know?

[Craic]

WE HAVE SEEN HIM PLAY ENOUGH TO MAKE THE DETERMINATION THAT HE'S A REALLY GOOD PLAYER. How can you possibly ignore some of the bet slot play in the league when he was in Philly.

Because talent wasn't the problem according to the coaches. It was the ability to learn the Steelers defensive scheme.

I also noted something else - someone out there saying he couldn't "stay on his feet." And then in Boykin's post, he said he'd been making "Acrobatic" type plays and couldn't understand why he wasn't on the field more. :noidea:

[Dwinsgames]

Because talent wasn't the problem according to the coaches. It was the ability to learn the Steelers defensive scheme.

I also noted something else - someone out there saying he couldn't "stay on his feet." And then in Boykin's post, he said he'd been making "Acrobatic" type plays and couldn't understand why he wasn't on the field more. :noidea:


I just find the bold nearly impossible to believe .... this is a kid who has been playing the game his entire life and had been in the league 3 years prior to coming here so he understands the game and concepts just fine ... this kid is also an academic all American so he has more than a bag of hammers floating around inside his head ...

sure our defense is a little exotic but it is not rocket science a young man with his smarts and experience should have little problem figuring it out

[zulater]

I just find the bold nearly impossible to believe .... this is a kid who has been playing the game his entire life and had been in the league 3 years prior to coming here so he understands the game and concepts just fine ... this kid is also an academic all American so he has more than a bag of hammers floating around inside his head ...

sure our defense is a little exotic but it is not rocket science a young man with his smarts and experience should have little problem figuring it out

So your explanation is.....?

I'm sorry but I can't assume the irrational, that being that Tomlin is either clueless or vindictive without reason.

Just because I can't explain something doesn't mean there wasn't valid cause. Unless you have every piece of the puzzle you're speculating. (as am I) I choose to speculate that there were valid reasons that if were fully known would at least give credence to what was done. Even if you disagree with it.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Panthers sign CB Brandon Boykin (1 year, $840,000): A+ Grade

I've handed out six A+ grades for signings/re-signings this offseason prior to this one. This is the seventh, and it just might be the best of them all.

I can't believe the deal the Panthers are getting. They could've paid Brandon Boykin eight times more than this, and it still would've been an acceptable amount. Boykin is one of the top nickel corners in the NFL. He's also just 26 (in July), so he has a bright future ahead of him. He would've earned a much larger contract, but he barely played for the Steelers, who inexplicably mishandled him. Pittsburgh finally wizened up late in the year, and Boykin predictably thrived, just as he did for Philadelphia previously. This left many wondering - including one reader - why the Steelers didn't have him on the field the entire season.

The Panthers were already one of the top teams in the NFL. One of their few weaknesses was secondary depth, so they're much stronger in that regard now. And they didn't really have to spend anything to make it that way.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagentsigninggrades.php#OQDDVz2okOIjZzwT.99

[Dwinsgames]

So your explanation is.....?

I'm sorry but I can't assume the irrational, that being that Tomlin is either clueless or vindictive without reason.

Just because I can't explain something doesn't mean there wasn't valid cause. Unless you have every piece of the puzzle you're speculating. (as am I) I choose to speculate that there were valid reasons that if were fully known would at least give credence to what was done. Even if you disagree with it.


Tomlin does have a Doghouse that is proven to be difficult if not impossible to get out of ( ask Lance Moore ) and based on his play and his prior play that is the most plausible explanation in my opinion

[zulater]

Tomlin does have a Doghouse that is proven to be difficult if not impossible to get out of ( ask Lance Moore ) and based on his play and his prior play that is the most plausible explanation in my opinion

I suppose that's a fair hypothesis. Though I don't know if it's ever been proven that Lance Moore was in the doghouse. Seemed like it though. Thing is I never got the sense Tomin disliked Boykin the person.

Oh well guess we'll see what Boykin does with the Panthers.

[Dwinsgames]

I suppose that's a fair hypothesis. Though I don't know if it's ever been proven that Lance Moore was in the doghouse. Seemed like it though. Thing is I never got the sense Tomin disliked Boykin the person.

Oh well guess we'll see what Boykin does with the Panthers.


we sure took the long way around to get there .... but we got there

[Craic]

Tomlin does have a Doghouse that is proven to be difficult if not impossible to get out of ( ask Lance Moore ) and based on his play and his prior play that is the most plausible explanation in my opinion

I wouldn't call it plausible at all. For Lance Moore, he came onto a team that had arguably the best WR in the NFL, and two rookies that sprouted wings and took off. Lance Moore was an older player with little upside beyond what he already had shown.

It's why I thank God fans don't get to make decisions about this football team. The "right now" approach has worked beautifully for the Cowboys, the Redskins, the Browns, etc. Giving your very young, very talented players the snaps needed to develop so your aging franchise QB will have at least another two or three years with three or four weapons of great caliber is well worth letting a pretty decent veteran ride the pine.

What I find funny is how much Tomlin is ripped apart for never removing veterans. Then, when rookies show flashes of great football and get moved up ahead of veterans, we dislike that as well.

[Dwinsgames]

I wouldn't call it plausible at all. For Lance Moore, he came onto a team that had arguably the best WR in the NFL, and two rookies that sprouted wings and took off. Lance Moore was an older player with little upside beyond what he already had shown.

It's why I thank God fans don't get to make decisions about this football team.

me too .." some" wouldn't even consider drafting a CB because we drafted one last year that hasn't played a down yet .

its just a guess but I suspect msg boards are to discuss things instead of throwing out cliche comments such as the bold too but what do I know I am just a hack the writes his opinion in a forum , oh wait so are you .

[Hawkman]

me too .." some" wouldn't even consider drafting a CB because we drafted one last year that hasn't played a down yet .

its just a guess but I suspect msg boards are to discuss things instead of throwing out cliche comments such as the bold too but what do I know I am just a hack the writes his opinion in a forum , oh wait so are you .

Troll!

[hawaiiansteeler]

" some" wouldn't even consider drafting a CB because we drafted one last year that hasn't played a down yet .



I don't know of one single Steelers message board poster who isn't in favor of drafting a CB...

[fansince'76]

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp268/Silver_Cloud/Die-Thread-Die.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/user/Silver_Cloud/media/Die-Thread-Die.jpg.html)

[Dwinsgames]

I don't know of one single Steelers message board poster who isn't in favor of drafting a CB...

go to the draft section and read it for yourself . Craic said it

- - - Updated - - -


http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp268/Silver_Cloud/Die-Thread-Die.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/user/Silver_Cloud/media/Die-Thread-Die.jpg.html)

amen

[Craic]

me too .." some" wouldn't even consider drafting a CB because we drafted one last year that hasn't played a down yet .

its just a guess but I suspect msg boards are to discuss things instead of throwing out cliche comments such as the bold too but what do I know I am just a hack the writes his opinion in a forum , oh wait so are you .


go to the draft section and read it for yourself . Craic said it

Read much?

If not, let me help you with a little thing called context.


I don't disagree our need is DB. But it is not something to fix in the draft. We have a team that's knocking on the SB door NOW. So why would you want to throw a draft pick away on a guy that most likely will two to three years to fully transition to NFL football. Rookie mistakes end seasons. Young players losing their heads lose seasons (and players with nothing in their head, right pacman?). Talk about wasting a draft pick AND wasting the last few years of Ben's career on a downgraded defense while we wait for someone to develop. Go into FA and get the guy, NOW.

Of course, I was also arguing that if we picked up a great DB in FA, we should focus on TE because Heath is getting toward the end of his run. Lo and behold, looks like I was right, even sooner than I expected.* Of course, feel free to ignore the fact my above comments were made before FA began and post a reference out of context here.

What I find funny in all of this is that people still think they know better than the coaches that work with the players every day. As a once-dear and unfortunately, late member used to say, if you think you can do any better, polish off your resume and send it in. I, on the other hand, am under no illusion I know better than the coaches.

tl;dr - it's always easier being an ass if you ignore context. But ignoring context often just makes you look like an ass.

________
*For you long time members, yeah, I felt as though I were channeling a Chest of Hip Tonys writing that—in fact, it's pretty much why I did it, chuckling as I typed.

[teegre]

My wife & I were watching a movie the other night, and she mentioned how ugly Willem Defoe is. I asked if she thought he was uglier than Steve Buscemi. It was an interesting discussion...

...which eventually led into discussing the opposite end of the spectrum... who's more handsome: Matthew McConaughey or Brad Pitt?

The first part of the conversation is this thread.

[tube517]

Well, Boykin and Blake are gone.


Otherwise, this would have reached "Fire Arians" thread that won't die levels. :chuckle:

And by posting this, I just extended this thread! :lol: :stirthepot::bananalama::willy:

[fansince'76]

My wife & I were watching a movie the other night, and she mentioned how ugly Willem Defoe is. I asked if she thought he was uglier than Steve Buscemi. It was an interesting discussion... .

Did any part of the discussion turn to how fat Tony Soprano was?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcIcNu-ahXQ

(Yes, I find the clip funny and I've been waiting years for an excuse to post it.)

:chuckle:

[tube517]

My wife & I were watching a movie the other night, and she mentioned how ugly Willem Defoe is. I asked if she thought he was uglier than Steve Buscemi. It was an interesting discussion...

...which eventually led into discussing the opposite end of the spectrum... who's more handsome: Matthew McConaughey or Brad Pitt?

The first part of the conversation is this thread.

http://d15ab5cpb0gqsc.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/looks-good-to-me-.png

[fansince'76]

Well, Boykin and Blake are gone.


Otherwise, this would have reached "Fire Arians" thread that won't die levels. :chuckle:

And by posting this, I just extended this thread! :lol: :stirthepot::bananalama::willy:

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/Bump_zpsb2apptpa.jpg (http://s211.photobucket.com/user/garyb12001/media/Bump_zpsb2apptpa.jpg.html)

:chuckle:

[Craic]

My wife & I were watching a movie the other night, and she mentioned how ugly Willem Defoe is. I asked if she thought he was uglier than Steve Buscemi. It was an interesting discussion...

...which eventually led into discussing the opposite end of the spectrum... who's more handsome: Matthew McConaughey or Brad Pitt?

The first part of the conversation is this thread.

Huh. I'd go with Buscemi, but gotta give him props for being a firefighter. Day after 9/11, and already an established actor, he went back to work with his old dept pulling 12 hours shifts.
(http://www.inquisitr.com/2417272/this-steve-buscemi-911-story-will-restore-your-faith-in-humanity/)


http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/Bump_zpsb2apptpa.jpg (http://s211.photobucket.com/user/garyb12001/media/Bump_zpsb2apptpa.jpg.html)

:chuckle:

Careful, or you'll find a lightbulb thread starting real soon. :chuckle:

[tube517]

Huh. I'd go with Buscemi, but gotta give him props for being a firefighter. Day after 9/11, and already an established actor, he went back to work with his old dept pulling 12 hours shifts.
(http://www.inquisitr.com/2417272/this-steve-buscemi-911-story-will-restore-your-faith-in-humanity/)



Careful, or you'll find a lightbulb thread starting real soon. :chuckle:

Yes, I saw an interview with Buscemi talking about that (FDNY). Along with his roles in the Sopranos, Boardwalk Empire and even his goofy comedy roles in Adam Sandler movies, he can act.

[fansince'76]

Yes, I saw an interview with Buscemi talking about that (FDNY). Along with his roles in the Sopranos, Boardwalk Empire and even his goofy comedy roles in Adam Sandler movies, he can act.

He's always reminded me of Peter Lorre.

[Dwinsgames]

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp268/Silver_Cloud/Die-Thread-Die.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/user/Silver_Cloud/media/Die-Thread-Die.jpg.html)

.

[Dwinsgames]

Read much?

If not, let me help you with a little thing called context.



Of course, I was also arguing that if we picked up a great DB in FA, we should focus on TE because Heath is getting toward the end of his run. Lo and behold, looks like I was right, even sooner than I expected.* Of course, feel free to ignore the fact my above comments were made before FA began and post a reference out of context here.

What I find funny in all of this is that people still think they know better than the coaches that work with the players every day. As a once-dear and unfortunately, late member used to say, if you think you can do any better, polish off your resume and send it in. I, on the other hand, am under no illusion I know better than the coaches.

tl;dr - it's always easier being an ass if you ignore context. But ignoring context often just makes you look like an ass.

________
*For you long time members, yeah, I felt as though I were channeling a Chest of Hip Tonys writing that—in fact, it's pretty much why I did it, chuckling as I typed.

was referring to this , albeit my memory was a bit foggy of its clearest form of interpretation as it has been a few weeks or so since I read it ...


Why does everyone forget we chose a second round CB last year who hasn't seen the field, but his body of work shows he has the potential to be a very good CB? I wouldn't waste a first round pick on a CB until we know how Golson works out, unless one falls to us as BPA.

as for knowing more than coaches I do not believe anyone stated that , however one must question how they came about sending out the man who was toasted week after week at RCB to the point it set an all time league record ( the kind of record you do not want to set )

so what part of the BLT - Butler/ Lake /Tomlin was/is responsible for that happening and why exactly should we as fans not question what clearly looked like an exercise in futility ? take away the Boykin factor forget he was on the roster like the coaches did the first 10 weeks of the season why not try something else like the rookie 4th round pick (Grant) who got 1 defensive snap all year ?

after all it was clear Blake was not the answer why not at the very least see if Grant could be of some measure of improvement in meaningful snaps ?

[steelreserve]

as for knowing more than coaches I do not believe anyone stated that , however one must question how they came about sending out the man who was toasted week after week at RCB to the point it set an all time league record ( the kind of record you do not want to set )

so what part of the BLT - Butler/ Lake /Tomlin was/is responsible for that happening and why exactly should we as fans not question what clearly looked like an exercise in futility ? take away the Boykin factor forget he was on the roster like the coaches did the first 10 weeks of the season why not try something else like the rookie 4th round pick (Grant) who got 1 defensive snap all year ?

after all it was clear Blake was not the answer why not at the very least see if Grant could be of some measure of improvement in meaningful snaps ?


You idiot. Obviously the coaches already thought of all that and you are WRONG. You are not an NFL head coach yourself and therefore have no business having an opinion about football. If you do, other people who are also not NFL coaches can tell you what the real coach did, thereby showing you that they are knowledgeable and your thoughts are invalid. Now go back to your farm and beat the mud with a stick, or whatever it is that ignorant peons do when they're not cluttering up football message boards with their uninformed drivel.

[Dwinsgames]

You idiot. Obviously the coaches already thought of all that and you are WRONG. You are not an NFL head coach yourself and therefore have no business having an opinion about football. If you do, other people who are also not NFL coaches can tell you what the real coach did, thereby showing you that they are knowledgeable and your thoughts are invalid. Now go back to your farm and beat the mud with a stick, or whatever it is that ignorant peons do when they're not cluttering up football message boards with their uninformed drivel.

sometimes that is exactly what it feels like , the only difference is most are not being playful with the comments they are serious . must be some powerful stuff coming out of that team koolaid fountain #shrug

[zulater]

sometimes that is exactly what it feels like , the only difference is most are not being playful with the comments they are serious . must be some powerful stuff coming out of that team koolaid fountain #shrug

Yeah, it's called decades of success flavor kool-aid .To me that buys a great deal of benefit of the doubt at the checkout counter. Sometimes I wonder if you guys think you're following the Browns or Lions?

[Dwinsgames]

Yeah, it's called decades of success flavor kool-aid .To me that buys a great deal of benefit of the doubt at the checkout counter. Sometimes I wonder if you guys think you're following the Browns or Lions?

I used to follow a team as lowly as the current Browns but they where called the Steelers then too .. people forget how bad it was Pre Noll

no one persons fandom is greater than the next the only difference is the ability some have in being objective while others fly a blind path , in that manner football is then a lot like politics

[zulater]

The Steelers have an ability to self correct. The directive came from above (Art II) a few years back that Ben needed to change his game, within a few years he has. The sacks have gone down while the productivity has stayed consistent.

A year or so later the directive came from above that the Steelers had to start running the ball more efficiently. The naysayers proclaimed the Steelers were stupid. The days of 3 yards and a cloud of dust were all over." Might as well trade Ben if you're not going to use him", they stated! But they missed the point. They weren't going 70's retro, they were going to run the ball more "efficiently", and my how they do now.

A few years back anything over 3rd and half a yard was a virtual must passing down to have any chance to succeed in a crucial game situation. Now by upgrading the line and just as important the backs the Steelers are a danger to convert anything inside 3 yards with a run.

At this offseasons start Art gave the order that the secondary needs to be improved. My guess is that it will be.

Some teams deserve the benefit of the doubt. I think this team is one of them. Even if they did mishandle Boykin to some extent last season, I trust they know what they're doing in leaving him go. As they say part of the problem or part of the cure? And obviously they don't see either him or Blake as part of the eventual cure.

Moving on now.....

- - - Updated - - -


I used to follow a team as lowly as the current Browns but they where called the Steelers then too .. people forget how bad it was Pre Noll

no one persons fandom is greater than the next the only difference is the ability some have in being objective while others fly a blind path , in that manner football is then a lot like politics

I'm old enough to remember Kent Nix and Dick Shiner too. But I don't hold ancient history against the current regime, even if they're related. It would be like holding all of us white folk responsible for American slavery.

[zulater]

So it's "blind faith" to give the benefit of the doubt to one of the most successful teams in all of sports for the past 45 years?

I mean seriously! :frusty: I don't claim to be any greater than a fan of the worst team of a bad team. I've stayed loyal to the Pirates despite decades of crap. That's why even though they've had a good run these past few years I still don't trust them. I hope things work for the best, but if you told me 5 years from now they'll be back to losing 90+ games a year, I'd say yeah you're probably right.

Anyway trust is earned in the case of the Steelers, not given blindly. If you can't figure out the difference that's your problem not mine.

[Mojouw]

On Blake versus Grant -

I don't cut very straight lines with my power saw. Never have, likely never will. I can keep trying and do the best I can - or I can try something different. Now if that something different is having someone better than me cut the line, then great. If that something different is having the dog have a go at it - well different doesn't necessarily mean better.

[hawaiiansteeler]

...which eventually led into discussing the opposite end of the spectrum... who's more handsome: Matthew McConaughey or Brad Pitt?



I asked my wife and she said it's not even remotely close:

http://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/2013/12/16/008/n/1922398/44215073c04597ce_79714904_10.jpg.xxxlarge/i/Brad-looked-especially-hot-NYC-set-Meet-Joe-Black-June.jpg

[pczach]

This thread has all the makings of a malevolent killer in an old slasher movie. You just can't kill it. Whatever you do, it just keeps getting up to hunt and kill everything it can.

[fansince'76]

This thread has all the makings of a malevolent killer in an old slasher movie. You just can't kill it. Whatever you do, it just keeps getting up to hunt and kill everything it can.

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/86962/4992873-2157909787-13796.jpg

:chuckle:

[pczach]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/542/802/a29.png



:chuckle:

[fansince'76]

It would be like holding all of us white folk responsible for American slavery.

Which many still seem to do. Ever seen Louis CK and his "I'm white so I SUCK!" shtick? :rolleyes:

[Born2Steel]

:lala:I was just wondering if ANYONE had an opinion about how Boykin played last season vs how the coaching staff played him........

[Dwinsgames]

Troll!


oh really that is an interesting comment that surely has went a long ways into furthering the conversation and add depth to the conversation ,

thank you for your peanut gallery commentary

on that note I am no longer part of this topic because it is the equivalent of banging your head off the wall .. all you get is a headache

[zulater]

oh really that is an interesting comment that surely has went a long ways into furthering the conversation and add depth to the conversation ,

thank you for your peanut gallery commentary

on that note I am no longer part of this topic because it is the equivalent of banging your head off the wall .. all you get is a headache

Just know, you gave as many headaches as you got. :lol:

[steelreserve]

Good teams, even well-run teams, still fuck up all the time. The benefit of the doubt is for situations where you tried something expecting different results, so you learn from it and go to your backup plan. The Blake situation was just a dumpster on fire all season. To illustrate, imagine you're listening to a Nobel Prize-winning physicist give a lecture at MIT:


Benefit of the doubt situation:

Scientist: "... but the liquid helium behaved differently than expected at extremely high pressures, causing the experiment to become unstable and ultimately break down."

You: "Well, that sucks, but it sounds like he knows what he's doing."


Blake situation:

Scientist: "Ahem."

*adjusts glasses*

Scientist: "Ahem."

*shuffles papers*

Scientist: "Ahem."

*EXPLOSIVE DIARRHEA*

You: "I bet he MEANT to do that! He's a famous scientist!"

[zulater]

Good teams, even well-run teams, still fuck up all the time. The benefit of the doubt is for situations where you tried something expecting different results, so you learn from it and go to your backup plan. The Blake situation was just a dumpster on fire all season. To illustrate, imagine you're listening to a Nobel Prize-winning physicist give a lecture at MIT:


Benefit of the doubt situation:

Scientist: "... but the liquid helium behaved differently than expected at extremely high pressures, causing the experiment to become unstable and ultimately break down."

You: "Well, that sucks, but it sounds like he knows what he's doing."


Blake situation:

Scientist: "Ahem."

*adjusts glasses*

Scientist: "Ahem."

*shuffles papers*

Scientist: "Ahem."

*EXPLOSIVE DIARRHEA*

You: "I bet he MEANT to do that! He's a famous scientist!"

The difference between good and bad is managing, overcoming and minimizing your errors. Not being error free, which is impossible.

[steelreserve]

The difference between good and bad is managing, overcoming and minimizing your errors.


So exactly which one of those did we do with Blake? Overall the team tends to be better about that than most others, but this is one case where I didn't see any of those.

Anyway, fuck it, I'm just glad he's gone and we don't have to deal with even the potential of the same thing happening again.

[zulater]

So exactly which one of those did we do with Blake? Overall the team tends to be better about that than most others, but this is one case where I didn't see any of those.

Anyway, fuck it, I'm just glad he's gone and we don't have to deal with even the potential of the same thing happening again.

Yeah I'm glad he's gone too, and hope we see a major upgrade with our corners this season.

[Craic]

was referring to this , albeit my memory was a bit foggy of its clearest form of interpretation as it has been a few weeks or so since I read it ...

Ah, that post. I was talking about picking a CB first round, and it was in light of my other arguments about wanting a CB in FA to fill the position immediately while we see what Golson can do. This way, we have a guy for the right now and also can see if Golson is the guy of the future without watching our secondary get shredded. My fear was (and is) that no CB coming out of college and drafted at the position we sit in will be able to have the type of immediate impact we would like.



as for knowing more than coaches I do not believe anyone stated that , however one must question how they came about sending out the man who was toasted week after week at RCB to the point it set an all time league record ( the kind of record you do not want to set )

so what part of the BLT - Butler/ Lake /Tomlin was/is responsible for that happening and why exactly should we as fans not question what clearly looked like an exercise in futility ? take away the Boykin factor forget he was on the roster like the coaches did the first 10 weeks of the season why not try something else like the rookie 4th round pick (Grant) who got 1 defensive snap all year ?

after all it was clear Blake was not the answer why not at the very least see if Grant could be of some measure of improvement in meaningful snaps ?

Now you're moving to a different subject, and one that I have questions about as well. My guess would be they thought either Blake had the talent and the light would switch on for him, or they thought he still brought enough to the table in the run game that they'd rather have him than the other options. I'd probably side with the former. IMO, Tomlin ruined a couple football careers early on by not sticking with guys and being too quick to yank them. So I'm glad to see him giving someone a chance to work through issues. On the other hand, there also comes a time when you have to cut losses. Did he do it too early? too late? I don't think anyone would say too early, a number of people would say too late. I might even agree with it.

My problem with the earlier part of the conversation was what I saw as an assumption that we absolutely had a player sitting on the bench who was much better throughout the entire season, and Tomlin chose not to play him because he's an idiot/too stubborn/likes playing childish games/etcetera.

But, as I said, your question about Blake and Grants is vastly different, and worth asking, IMO. (meaning I agree it's a very good question).

[Count Steeler]

Blake played because of his early splash plays. Something Tomlin is addicted to.

If I remember correctly, in the first 3 games Blake had 2 ints, 1 which he returned for a TD. The one where he carried the football like a loaf of bread and didn't fumble.

The allure of the ints just blinded Tomlin to the rest of the package.

[Craic]

Blake played because of his early splash plays. Something Tomlin is addicted to.

If I remember correctly, in the first 3 games Blake had 2 ints, 1 which he returned for a TD. The one where he carried the football like a loaf of bread and didn't fumble.

The allure of the ints just blinded Tomlin to the rest of the package.

I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say "blinded." But yeah, it's that idea that if they stuck with him, he'd develop.

[teegre]

RE-CAP (story style):

Steve Buscemi and Peter Lorre walk into a bar. None of the women fawn over them, yet Steelers can't stop talking about them.

Just them, Jason Vorhees shows up & avers that Sarah Jessica Parker is actually prettier than either of them. Everyone laughs at Jason... who whips out his machete and slices the patrons into pieces.

A Steelers fan awakens from the nightmare and declares: "Steve Buscemi... Peter Lorre... Horse Parker... aaagh!!!... why can't I ever dream about someone as good looking as Freddy Krueger???"

[86WARD]

I wouldn't call it plausible at all. For Lance Moore, he came onto a team that had arguably the best WR in the NFL, and two rookies that sprouted wings and took off. Lance Moore was an older player with little upside beyond what he already had shown.

It's why I thank God fans don't get to make decisions about this football team. The "right now" approach has worked beautifully for the Cowboys, the Redskins, the Browns, etc. Giving your very young, very talented players the snaps needed to develop so your aging franchise QB will have at least another two or three years with three or four weapons of great caliber is well worth letting a pretty decent veteran ride the pine.

What I find funny is how much Tomlin is ripped apart for never removing veterans. Then, when rookies show flashes of great football and get moved up ahead of veterans, we dislike that as well.

Lance Moore should have been starting over Justin Brown. For some reason people seem to forget that Brown, JUSTIN was the one starting over Lance Moore. It wasn't Bryant tarting over Moore at that time. It was Justin Brown.

[zulater]

Lance Moore should have been starting over Justin Brown. For some reason people seem to forget that Brown, JUSTIN was the one starting over Lance Moore. It wasn't Bryant tarting over Moore at that time. It was Justin Brown.


This much I know. Justin was a standout in that spring's OTA's and early in training camp. So this is what I think, I think Tomlin saw Lance Moore as a guy near the end of the road, a depth signing. I think he saw Justin Brown as a young player with a potential big upside that he wanted to give a chance to grow into the job. So therefore he let him continue to play through some early season mistakes, until it became painfully obvious that the spring play was a mirage, the guy just didn't have it. Think some of the same things applied with Blake.

Again let me cite Marcus Gilbert as a player many viewed as being insufficient who Tomlin stuck with and allowed to play through some early growing pains who's turned out to be a damned good player. If I would have suggested to anyone after the 13 season that Gilbert would be one of the best right tackles in the NFL in the near future I would have been laughed off the board, while at the same time it would be suggested we cut our losses already with Gilbert. And no I'm not claiming I was any higher on Gilbert at the time than most everyone else, I'm just saying some times with young players they can improve with play. Not every time will they get it right of course. But they don't just randomly decide they hate a talented player and sit him over someone not as good just because.

[tube517]

Lance Moore should have been starting over Justin Brown. For some reason people seem to forget that Brown, JUSTIN was the one starting over Lance Moore. It wasn't Bryant tarting over Moore at that time. It was Justin Brown.

Agree with you. However, I think Moore was injured at the start of the season or late preseason, can't remember. I believe he missed a game or two.

[Craic]

This much I know. Justin was a standout in that spring's OTA's and early in training camp. So this is what I think, I think Tomlin saw Lance Moore as a guy near the end of the road, a depth signing. I think he saw Justin Brown as a young player with a potential big upside that he wanted to give a chance to grow into the job. So therefore he let him continue to play through some early season mistakes, until it became painfully obvious that the spring play was a mirage, the guy just didn't have it. Think some of the same things applied with Blake.

Again let me cite Marcus Gilbert as a player many viewed as being insufficient who Tomlin stuck with and allowed to play through some early growing pains who's turned out to be a damned good player. If I would have suggested to anyone after the 13 season that Gilbert would be one of the best right tackles in the NFL in the near future I would have been laughed off the board, while at the same time it would be suggested we cut our losses already with Gilbert. And no I'm not claiming I was any higher on Gilbert at the time than most everyone else, I'm just saying some times with young players they can improve with play. Not every time will they get it right of course. But they don't just randomly decide they hate a talented player and sit him over someone not as good just because.

This.

Pretty much same thing I said about Blake. And I think you're absolutely right. Part of the problem is that we see things in snippets, rather than every day. So our thoughts and actions are legitimately going to be different than those of the coaches, and really, in a lot of ways that's exactly what I mean when I say we don't know what's going on behind the scenes and I'll trust the coaches. It's not because I think the coaches are infallible, but because they're just so much more exposed to the players.

[SteelMember]

Because talent wasn't the problem according to the coaches. It was the ability to learn the Steelers defensive scheme.

I also noted something else - someone out there saying he couldn't "stay on his feet." And then in Boykin's post, he said he'd been making "Acrobatic" type plays and couldn't understand why he wasn't on the field more. :noidea:

And honestly, this statement could be all the reason the coaches didn't play him more. If he wants/keeps leaving his feet to make more plays on the ball, and the defense is predicated on "tackling the catch", then it just looks like a sort of insubordination from the coaches perspective. He may think himself a true ball hawk, but coaches see it as not doing you "job" and playing out of position. He took many chances in college as well.

At this point, both are gone and we will certainly have many more players to complain about in the future... such is life of an armchair quarterback. :chuckle:

/endsteelerspaychecks

[BlackAndGold]

732202334260957184

[tube517]

You know......


:vetmin::broke::stirthepot::peep::lol:


EDIT: Strange, this tweet pops up from former Steeler Shaq Richardson....



732213585334534144

[Psycho Ward 86]

732202334260957184

not going to lie. i was in the "a good veteran always falls through the cracks every offseason somehow" school of thought. but once the panthers drafted 3 cornerbacks, i was officially confused. now im really confused.

[fansince'76]

Less than two months after signing him to compete for the nickel cornerback position, the Carolina Panthers cut Brandon Boykin on Monday.

The move comes after rookie minicamp when Carolina’s three drafted cornerbacks debuted. Panthers coach Ron Rivera spoke highly of their start, and clearly that led to Boykin’s dismissal.

Panthers cut CB Brandon Boykin after signing him in March
(http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article77848232.html)
Must have wound up in Rivera's doghouse somehow... :stirthepot:

[polamalubeast]

wow

[katmandu]

does Boykin have a disease we don't know about? :huh:YES and the Panthers just found out what it is !

[Shoes]

And he walked away with 80k?

[steelreserve]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU_EMA87Fv8

[86WARD]

Very curious to see/hear what his issues were

[zulater]

732202334260957184

Bu bu bu but Profootballfocus says he's the bestest corner that walked the earth! :lol:

Yes I exaggerate but if he was half what they claimed he was he would have never have signed for vet minimum to begin with. The lesson in all this is Profootballfocus doesn't know as much as they think they do.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Panthers cut CB Brandon Boykin after signing him in March
(http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article77848232.html)
Must have wound up in Rivera's doghouse somehow... :stirthepot:

I thought only Tomlin had a doghouse...:stirthepot:

[zulater]

So who's going to start the obligatory "Should the Steelers sign Brandon Boykin" thread? :chuckle:

[86WARD]

So who's going to start the obligatory "Should the Steelers sign Brandon Boykin" thread? :chuckle:

Lol. I think you just did...

[katmandu]

Very curious to see/hear what his issues wereWas it true that he couldn't learn the playbook (like Shamarko) ?

[fansince'76]

The lesson in all this is Profootballfocus doesn't know as much as they think they do.

Amen to that...

Cris Collinsworth liked using Pro Football Focus, so he bought it (http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/giants/cris-collinsworth-liked-using-pro-football-focus-so-he-bought-it-1.10940909)

:jerkit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoQij9q8WwI

[86WARD]

Was it true that he couldn't learn the playbook (like Shamarko) ?

That's what the rumor was but if he couldn't learn the playbook, why did Pittsburgh allegedly make him a contract offer? If that was the reason that Carolina cut him, which I don't think it was, I'd two months or whatever really enough to judge a free agent? I think Carolina signed him, found themselves in a position to draft CBs and decided to go younger...remember, this is also the team that retracted the offer to one of the better CBS in the league...

[hawaiiansteeler]

So who's going to start the obligatory "Should the Steelers sign Brandon Boykin" thread? :chuckle:

only if we can find a way to trade for Antwan Blake and start him ahead of Boykin again.

those discussions are so priceless and I already miss them...

[katmandu]

I think Carolina signed him, found themselves in a position to draft CBs and decided to go younger...remember, this is also the team that retracted the offer to one of the better CBS in the league...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2640528-brandon-boykin-released-by-panthers-latest-details-comments-and-reaction



His signing also seemed to be a good decision because of Pro Bowl corner Josh Norman's franchise-tag drama that resulted in his release and eventual signing (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15306513/josh-norman-signs-washington-redskins) with the Washington Redskins (http://bleacherreport.com/washington-redskins) just three days before the 2016 NFL (http://bleacherreport.com/nfl) draft.

Carolina responded by drafting cornerbacks James Bradberry out of Samford in the second round, Daryl Worley out of West Virginia in the third and Zack Sanchez out of Oklahoma in the fifth.

So far they've been impressing head coach Ron Rivera, who toldJoseph Person (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/nfl-blog/article77684692.html) of the Charlotte Observer on Saturday he was "very happy" with what he's seen from the trio of draft picks.

Their early success might have been why Boykin was expendable despite recording eight interceptions in his first four years in the league with the Philadelphia Eagles (http://bleacherreport.com/philadelphia-eagles) and Pittsburgh Steelers (http://bleacherreport.com/pittsburgh-steelers).


He voiced his dissatisfaction soon after he found out he'd be looking for a new team:


Follow (https://twitter.com/BrandonBoykin2)
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/706913202458783745/y3wRmkht_normal.jpgBrandon Boykin
✔‎@BrandonBoykin2 (https://twitter.com/BrandonBoykin2)

Lol NFL does not surprise me anymore.. Business is crazy. On to the next.
9:36 AM - 16 May 2016 (https://twitter.com/BrandonBoykin2/status/732202949359902720)



(https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=732202949359902720)

704704 Retweets (https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=732202949359902720)

998998 likes (https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=732202949359902720)

[teegre]

:lol:

Tomlin is so dumb. He had & cut Shaq Richardson... who the Panthers just signed to replace Boykin.

In other words, Boykin was All World, and Richardson replacing him means that Richardson is obviously All Universe.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

[hawaiiansteeler]

:lol:

Tomlin is so dumb. He had & cut Shaq Richardson... who the Panthers just signed to replace Boykin.

In other words, Boykin was All World, and Richardson replacing him means that Richardson is obviously All Universe.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Mike Tomlin: your comments are nothing more than "elevator music"... :cool: :tomlinism:

[Craic]

So who's going to start the obligatory "Should the Steelers sign Brandon Boykin" thread? :chuckle:

You know, for vet minimum . . . :wink02:

[tube517]

:lol:

Tomlin is so dumb. He had & cut Shaq Richardson... who the Panthers just signed to replace Boykin.

In other words, Boykin was All World, and Richardson replacing him means that Richardson is obviously All Universe.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Obviously.

[LloydWoodson]

Steelers will have two slot corners in Gay and Golson this year and three is a crowd.

The Steelers were correct to sit Boykin until they had to play him. Up until the secondary got embarrassed by the Raiders, Browns and Seahawks the "bend but don't break" thing was working well. The Steelers were able to keep a 4th as a result and Boykin played when it mattered getting the second most snaps of every corner down the stretch.

The Steelers did play Boykin more than Blake and Cockrell eventually and just in time for the important games. I'm still not mad at the signing and hope Boykin catches on with another team... but he is not going to find work on a team that is set with a nickel corner. The slot is his fate and the sooner he accepts it the better for him.

[Mojouw]

Guy gets cut and traded around like Boykin has the past year or so - the problem is likely off the field something.

I think the funniest thing is that in a way, Boykin was cut so that the Panthers could keep Shaq Richardson out of rookie minicamp.

Somehow that all still means that Tomlin was wrong!

[steelreserve]

Steelers will have two slot corners in Gay and Golson this year and three is a crowd.

The Steelers were correct to sit Boykin until they had to play him. Up until the secondary got embarrassed by the Raiders, Browns and Seahawks the "bend but don't break" thing was working well. The Steelers were able to keep a 4th as a result and Boykin played when it mattered getting the second most snaps of every corner down the stretch.

The Steelers did play Boykin more than Blake and Cockrell eventually and just in time for the important games. I'm still not mad at the signing and hope Boykin catches on with another team... but he is not going to find work on a team that is set with a nickel corner. The slot is his fate and the sooner he accepts it the better for him.


The only issue I have with what you said is the part in bold, and not even with you; it was a common misconception last year. People were saying "bend but don't break," but basically we were just lucky as hell up to that point. I can't remember exactly when I first posted about the subject, but around 5-6 games into the season, we'd given up either zero or one offensive turnovers and punt returns that put the other team in good field position, and there was no way that was going to continue; and the number of unforced errors and lucky breaks we got after the opponent had driven 40-50 yards was staggering. We weren't doing anything particularly right to cause that. Maybe that's why the change took so long, but at this point, what the hell.

I think there must be something going on behind the scenes with Boykin for this to be happening. Doesn't necessarily mean it was the right move to sit him on the bench when the guy in front of him was historically bad, but I suppose from a roster-move standpoint none of it surprises me now.

There's no way we would even consider bringing him back, I don't think, unless someone gets injured. There's no reason why someone 5'9" or 5"10 can't play outside (as Blake did last year, and Gay did noticeably better), but we have an overabundance of guys who can play the slot and hopefully at least two long-term starters locked up for the near future, all three if Cockrell pans out. So there is a lot more reason to be hopeful about that position.

[LloydWoodson]

^It was "bend but don't break" though.

AZ 13 pointd on 421 yards passing, 49ers 18 points on 332 yards passing, Chargers 20 points on 365 yards passing. EVen the Pats didn't break 30 with Gronkowski scoring at will.

That's just how I see it as it was explained by Lake that they weren't going to bench anyone if they weren't playing badly which I inferred meant hurting the team badly.

Blake was terrible (see AJ Green and DT stiff arming him like he was a small child) but ultimately the defense held the other teams to around 20 points.

It's not that Carr threw for 302 yards it is that he put up 35 points... but the Steelers won.

Same for Russell Wilson's perfect game where he had 5 TDs and put up 39. That's more than the 49ers and Rams or Chargers scored combined... and the Steelers lost.

Right after that Boykin became the Steelers second most played corner.

[teegre]

^It was "bend but don't break" though.

AZ 13 pointd on 421 yards passing, 49ers 18 points on 332 yards passing, Chargers 20 points on 365 yards passing. EVen the Pats didn't break 30 with Gronkowski scoring at will.

That's just how I see it as it was explained by Lake that they weren't going to bench anyone if they weren't playing badly which I inferred meant hurting the team badly.

Blake was terrible (see AJ Green and DT stiff arming him like he was a small child) but ultimately the defense held the other teams to around 20 points.

It's not that Carr threw for 302 yards it is that he put up 35 points... but the Steelers won.

Same for Russell Wilson's perfect game where he had 5 TDs and put up 39. That's more than the 49ers and Rams or Chargers scored combined... and the Steelers lost.

Right after that Boykin became the Steelers second most played corner.


Is this the LloydWoodson???

I remember one night, debating with you about some topic. Back & forth, back & forth. Then, in one post, you stated: "I actually agree with everything that you have stated since the beginning... I was just playing devil's advocate in order to kill some time; I've got to go." :applaudit:

Anyway... a warm welcome to you.

[Mojouw]

This just keeps getting more comical!

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/05/report-cb-brandon-boykin-visit-falcons-next-week/

Guess who else is on the roster in Atlanta? Demarcus Van Dyke and CJ Goodwin.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Report: CB Brandon Boykin To Visit Falcons Next Week

BY DAVE BRYAN MAY 18, 2016

Cornerback Brandon Boykin is looking for a new team following his release from the Carolina Panthers earlier this week and he now has a visit scheduled for early next week.

According to D. Orlando Ledbetter of the Atlanta Journal Constitution, Boykin is set to visit with the Atlanta Falcons on Monday.

Boykin, who played for the Pittsburgh Steelers last season, was surprisingly released by the Panthers after signing a one-year contract with them back in March.

One would think at this point that Boykin’s market value will remain at the minimum veteran salary level.

The Falcons currently have two cornerbacks on their roster who once called Pittsburgh home in DeMarcus Van Dyke and C.J. Goodwin. Goodwin, a former wide receiver, was asked to switch to cornerback after signing with the Falcons, who will be without cornerback Jalen Collins for the first four games of the 2016 season due to a suspension.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/05/report-cb-brandon-boykin-visit-falcons-next-week/

[fansince'76]

This just keeps getting more comical!

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/05/report-cb-brandon-boykin-visit-falcons-next-week/

Guess who else is on the roster in Atlanta? Demarcus Van Dyke and CJ Goodwin.

ZOMG! We're hemorrhaging talent! :willy:

:chuckle:

[teegre]

ZOMG! We're hemorrhaging talent! :willy:

:chuckle:

SOLUTION:

1. Fire Tomlin.

2. Trade Maurkice "Glass" Pouncey and Le'Veon "Not as Good as Lacy" Bell to Atlanta for DeMarcus Van Dyke and CJ Goodwin.

3. Re-sign Brandon "Primetime" Boykin.

4. Trade both Artie "Bust" Burns and Senquez "Too Small" Golson to a team for one R7 pick. (This part will be the toughest to pull off.)

[fansince'76]

SOLUTION:

1. Fire Tomlin.

2. Trade Maurkice "Glass" Pouncey and Le'Veon "Not as Good as Lacy" Bell to Atlanta for DeMarcus Van Dyke and CJ Goodwin.

3. Re-sign Brandon "Primetime" Boykin.

4. Trade both Artie "Bust" Burns and Senquez "Too Small" Golson to a team for one R7 pick. (This part will be the toughest to pull off.)

5. CHAMPIONSHIP!

:chuckle:

[Mojouw]

SOLUTION:

1. Fire Tomlin.

2. Trade Maurkice "Glass" Pouncey and Le'Veon "Not as Good as Lacy" Bell to Atlanta for DeMarcus Van Dyke and CJ Goodwin.

3. Re-sign Brandon "Primetime" Boykin.

4. Trade both Artie "Bust" Burns and Senquez "Too Small" Golson to a team for one R7 pick. (This part will be the toughest to pull off.)

5. Trade Wheaton now. He isn't really any good - DHB is better and cheaper. He is such an over rated WR that I figure the rest of the NFL will be clamoring to give the Steelers a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him.

6. Championship!

[tube517]

SOLUTION:

1. Fire Tomlin.

2. Trade Maurkice "Glass" Pouncey and Le'Veon "Not as Good as Lacy" Bell to Atlanta for DeMarcus Van Dyke and CJ Goodwin.

3. Re-sign Brandon "Primetime" Boykin.

4. Trade both Artie "Bust" Burns and Senquez "Too Small" Golson to a team for one R7 pick. (This part will be the toughest to pull off.)

Let Ben beat up Haley.
Artie Burns "Toast" should be cut before camp.
Keep Danny Smith and our mediocre return game because Ben likes to start at his own 12 yard line.
Trade Ben after beating up Haley. His preparation sucks.
Sammie Coates blows because he didn't have 300 catches, 8000 yards and 500 TD's in his rookie season.
Keep Laundry Jones for his ugly flannel shirts.
Fire all poker players and secret agent international bankers.
Adopt hippos as our new mascot and get rid of that fart Steely McBeam.

[teegre]

5. Trade Wheaton for Andrew Billings. He isn't really any good - DHB is better and cheaper. He is such an over rated WR that I figure the Bengals will be clamoring to give the Steelers Andrew Billings for him.

Edited

[LloydWoodson]

Is this the LloydWoodson???

I remember one night, debating with you about some topic. Back & forth, back & forth. Then, in one post, you stated: "I actually agree with everything that you have stated since the beginning... I was just playing devil's advocate in order to kill some time; I've got to go." :applaudit:

Anyway... a warm welcome to you.

Haha. Yeah that sounds 100% like something I would do and I definitely remember you and FanSince76 and a couple others. I won't disagree with you much you're pretty smart and I like to pretend I am the same.

I disagreed with FanSince76 over Ben and he was right and I was wrong. I definitely undervalued Ben in the past. I remember him saying something to the effect of "Back in my day we had a franchise QB and we won Super Bowls. Then we had Malone, Brister, and Stoudt. You youngsters don't know how good you have it dagammit." That was a couple years ago already and Ben is playing unreal.

Anyways, I'll try to argue less than I used to though I can keep things interesting. I usually have a moderate opinion but have strong reactions to strong opinions that aren't based in fact. It is often about how people make their arguments that gets me riled up.

I look forward to your posts now that we are reunited. Thanks for the welcome. Go Steelers!

[LloydWoodson]

I didn't realize this was the Boykin thread. My 2 cents:

Boykin is a slot corner in the NFL. Yes he would have been better outside than Blake but that isn't saying much and Blake is no longer here. I liked Boykin when he was here but am ecstatic that Blake is gone. To me that is a wash.

Steelers already have Gay and Golson who are also slot corners. Golson was an All-American and Gay is Tomlin's best friend (also was the best CB last year). I get it.

There are a number of reasons why Boykin did not play until week 10 last year. Life isn't black and white it is a pie chart with various motives behind different actions/events.

Yes the draft pick was one of them. Why would you drop a round when the secondary was getting torched but the defense wasn't giving up big points and the Steelers were still winning games. In the losses to Baltimore and KC the other QBs were pedestrian. It wasn't until the Raiders that the Steelers gave up 30+ points. Hell Palmer had 421 yards and scored just 13 points.

Other factors that saw Boykin sit: Gay better in the slot than outside, Boykin injured early in the season, Boykin signed Sept 5th and didn't have experience in the system whereas Blake did, defense held up in points allowed early, Boykin has not been viewed as an outside corner by any team etc.

Boykin was the 2nd most played CB from the Colts onward. He played well. Now Golson is back. The Steelers are full up with 5'9-5'10 DBs haha.

Now... the part that bothers me is when fans attack Boykin. Boykin played well for us. He is a solid nickel corner. I don't care which NFL teams don't agree. A lot of NFL teams miss on players regularly. Boykin isn't a flashy prospect: he is small, doesn't have a draft pedigree, is only viable in the slot, has badmouthed his ex coach Chip Kelly publicly etc. he still gets the job done but he has obvious faults as well... obviously.

[Hawkman]

5. Trade Wheaton now. He isn't really any good - DHB is better and cheaper. He is such an over rated WR that I figure the rest of the NFL will be clamoring to give the Steelers a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him.

6. Championship!
Damn......the season needs to start for some people!!!

[fansince'76]

Damn......the season needs to start for some people!!!

Only about 2 months until training camp! :thumbsup:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Report: Falcons pass on signing Boykin

Posted by Zac Jackson on May 25, 2016

https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/493256930-e1455637068384.jpg?w=223

Free agent cornerback Brandon Boykin will remain free for now, ESPN’s Vaughn McClure reported Wednesday.

Boykin worked out for the Falcons earlier this week. A source indicated to McClure that Boykin is healthy and that the Falcons choosing not to sign him is a football decision, not one based on any outside factors.

The Panthers released Boykin earlier this month after signing him in March. He became a free agent after playing last season with the Steelers, who acquired him in a preseason trade with the Eagles.

Boykin, 26, had six of his eight career interceptions in 2013 with the Eagles. He played in all 16 games for the Steelers last season, mostly in nickel packages.

The Falcons will likely stay active in their search for cornerback help. Second-year cornerback Jalen Collins is facing a four-game suspension to start the 2016 season, and the Falcons did not address the position in this year’s draft.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/25/report-falcons-pass-on-signing-boykin/

[Drazo85]

WTF is going on with this guy?

[tube517]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/06/carnell-lake-brandon-boykin-degenerative-hip-condition/

Carnell Lake On Brandon Boykin: He Had A Degenerative Hip Condition

[zulater]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/06/carnell-lake-brandon-boykin-degenerative-hip-condition/

Carnell Lake On Brandon Boykin: He Had A Degenerative Hip Condition

Colt's HOF wr Raymond Berry had one leg longer than the other and had terrible eyesight.

If you can play you can play. Let the film do the talking. At vet minimum why wouldn't you sign this guy for quality depth?