Report: Steelers Interested In Lions Free Agent DE Jason Jones

[polamalubeast]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/report-steelers-interested-in-lions-free-agent-de-jason-jones/

[Born2Steel]

3 teams in 8 seasons? I wonder why.

[hawaiiansteeler]

that would eliminate the need to draft a DE/situational edge pass rusher like Carl Nassib, Shaq Lawson, Kevin Dodd etc.

we would still be looking for a big ugly NT/DT type though...

[salamander]

I honestly don't know much about him.

[Born2Steel]

He plays on the Dline but an article I just read says we would probably use him at OLB in our system. I really don't know him either.

[polamalubeast]

http://www.nfl.com/player/jasonjones/2507473/profile

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His best game in his career was against the steelers in 2008 with the Titans(3.5 sacks in this game)

[hawaiiansteeler]

He plays on the Dline but an article I just read says we would probably use him at OLB in our system. I really don't know him either.

Colbert was quoted earlier that we would be possibly in the market for 4-3 DE types:

Changes On Defense Could Lead To Changes In How Steelers Build Roster

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/02/changes-on-defense-could-lead-to-changes-in-how-steelers-build-roster/

[pczach]

Colbert was quoted earlier that we would be possibly in the market for 4-3 DE types:

Changes On Defense Could Lead To Changes In How Steelers Build Roster

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/02/changes-on-defense-could-lead-to-changes-in-how-steelers-build-roster/


It makes sense. They have been playing more 4-3, particularly on third down or passing downs to maximize pass rush. Even if you play a base 3-4 defense, with the new rules putting the focus on the passing game, the ability to effectively rush the quarterback with as few people as possible is the objective. If you can find a way to consistently pressure the quarterback rushing four, you put your defense in a position to succeed by getting sacks, getting off the field on third down, and pressuring the quarterback into bad throws that lead to incompletions and interceptions.

This has been coming, and I have been saying that they have been moving more towards a flex defense that can play both 3-4 and 4-3 for situational football. A 4-3 defensive end that can play with his hand on the ground would be a great fit as a situational pass rusher on obvious passing downs and third downs.

[steelreserve]

I honestly don't see how this guy would do shit for us.

[teegre]

If there ever was a year to use two draft picks on D-lineman, this is the year.

[Psycho Ward 86]

he seems like a pretty middling OLB in our system from what ive read. do we really need more of that? We already have Moats and Jones filling that quota...and Harrison will be the oldest defensive player in the league if he decides to play. And Its not like we know Dupree is going to emerge yet.

i hate that we draft so many OLB's early, but this is one year where i honestly would be in favor of it. Signing a guy like this will just be a lateral move at best. Shaq Lawson and Shaquile Calhoun sound like good targets to me. Maybe even Kevin Dodd, who everyone seems high on even though im a bit skeptical.

im pulling the trigger basically no matter who is there if Noah Spence is at 25.

[BlackAndGold]

Makes sense since we're a 4-3 now. no longer a 3-4 base defense.

[BlackAndGold]

If there ever was a year to use two draft picks on D-lineman, this is the year.

Agreed, players like Carl Nassip & Sheldon Day are two players who I believe would fit nicely who can be found in rounds 3 & 4.

This also opens the door for a player like Kevin Dodd in round 1.

[steelreserve]

Makes sense since we're a 4-3 now. no longer a 3-4 base defense.

I would say we're more like a 2-4-5 base defense for lack of a decent third lineman, and for the same reason we have no depth in front. We have OK outside linebackers, but they have trouble getting pressure consistently because there are only two effective linemen. Some 4-3 DE/LB tweener bullshit with a guy who doesn't really rush the passer effectively isn't going to help with either of those things. You've done well in free agency so far; PLEASE don't lose focus and make some dumbass Cam Thomas-type signing that does nothing but eat cap space.

[86WARD]

He plays on the Dline but an article I just read says we would probably use him at OLB in our system. I really don't know him either.

And those are usually the ones the Steelers pick out of Free Agency that wind up being the best...

[Born2Steel]

And those are usually the ones the Steelers pick out of Free Agency that wind up being the best...

I just want to win, man. I don't care who we get it done with. Not complete lack of loyalty, don't get me wrong, only that we are so close. Whoever that last piece of the puzzle is, let's go get him. I remember what that scumbag Darren Sharper did for the Saints during their run. That trophy is still just as shiny in N.O.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I honestly don't see how this guy would do shit for us.

Jones has 28 career sacks...

[BlackAndGold]

*waiting patiently for the re-signing of McLendon & hopefully Beachum*

Jones would be a nice addition, maybe something gets done.

[Rotorhead]

I would rather have McClendon back with 2 DL draft picks early.

[Psycho Ward 86]

If we had kept Howard Jones and/or Shaquil Barrett, we wouldnt even have this thread right now. everyone strikes out once in a while, but twice in the same offseason at the same position? hard to swallow

[steelreserve]

Jones has 28 career sacks...

... yeah, in 8 years. I'm pretty sure that given almost a decade to do it, you or I could get 80 pounds fatter and record roughly the same number of sacks simply by being on the field and winding up in the right place at the right time.

I haven't heard anything about this guy being dominant or merely good, or even the unsung guy who does a lot of dirty work that helps teammates get the stats. I just don't see what he offers that's better than any of the guys we already have, or worth spending extra money on.



*waiting patiently for the re-signing of McLendon & hopefully Beachum*

Beachum would be nice to have, if a deal leaves us with enough money that we can still bring in one more important piece (e.g. DL/DB). If it keeps us from doing that, I'd rather sign the DL/DB since we already have three other guys who can play LT with varying degrees of success.

McLendon I'd just as soon cut loose and move on. He'd be good for rotational DL depth, but that's not how we'd use him; he'll always be a not-good-enough NT that we give way too big of a role to.

[BlackAndGold]

McLendon is a good NT, believe teams averaged just 2 yards per carry when he's on the field. Has been like that since he took over the NT spot.

He also played some DE last year, it's smart to bring him back.

[steelreserve]

McLendon is a good NT, believe teams averaged just 2 yards per carry when he's on the field. Has been like that since he took over the NT spot.

He also played some DE last year, it's smart to bring him back.


Every year that run defense stat gets trotted out, and every year McLendon remains a very limited, non-disruptive NT. He would be a good 4-3 DT, but in a pressure-oriented 3-4 defense like ours, a nose tackle whose only skill is defending the run has very little use. No, the nose tackle does not need to get 10 sacks. Yes, the nose tackle does need to disrupt the pocket, open lanes for other guys, and overall mess up the play. McLendon doesn't do any of that and needs to be replaced.

When I saw him and/or Cam Thomas subbing in for our starting DEs, teams tended to march the ball right down the field on us. So I'm not terribly excited about that either. Basically he's just a seat-filler on our roster.

[BlackAndGold]

The team is in his base defense(4-3) about 70% of the time, McLendon isn't going to get many chances to get after the passer, Imo, he's shown enough in that department, but isn't asked to do that(as I said, not many opportunities).

Fact of the matter is, he needs to be brought back. He's not great, but gets the job done. Can't have pro bowlers at every position.


Teams run right at Cam Thomas when he's on the field. Not McLendon's fault Thomas can't hold his on.

[steelreserve]

On what planet made entirely of crack cocaine do we use a 4-3 defense 70% of the time? The majority was 3-4 or a nickel sub package, and the nickel formations sure as hell weren't a 4-2-5. Unless you're counting times when we're playing in a 3-4 or a nickel and one or more of the LBs lines up as a telegraphed pass rusher, I've only seen us use a 4-3 front occasionally.

There's no arguing that McLendon is on the field a lot, but most of the time it's as a liability, not a strength. We don't ask him to rush the passer (because he couldn't even if we did ask), but we need someone who can cause disruption there, not just a warm body. It is one of the most crucial positions of the entire defense.

No, you can't have Pro Bowlers at every position, but you need one at NT if you want to run a 3-4 defense and be, you know ... good. That's what allows you to get by with Larry Foote type linebackers and William Gay type DBs. Play a 3-4 with no nose tackle, and they get exposed like last season. There's a reason why we used so many unorthodox sub packages with only Heyward and Tuitt as down linemen. It's getting your best players on the field, and McLendon isn't one of them. I sure as hell hope that position is in our draft plans this year, and the moves we've made (including not bringing back McLendon so far) have me hopeful it finally is.

[BlackAndGold]

Not sure if he/she is a troll or, being dead serious...

[BlackAndGold]

@jimwexell (https://twitter.com/jimwexell) 17 hrs17 hours ago (https://twitter.com/jimwexell/status/708119165585006594)
Lol. It's still so hard for Steelers fans to wrap their heads around the fact they're a 4-3 team.

[steelreserve]

Not sure if he/she is a troll or, being dead serious...


@jimwexell (https://twitter.com/jimwexell) 17 hrs17 hours ago (https://twitter.com/jimwexell/status/708119165585006594)
Lol. It's still so hard for Steelers fans to wrap their heads around the fact they're a 4-3 team.


I mean ... I don't know what to tell you, except sorry, dude, that's not what it is. Sorry to Wexell too if he's also going blind.

Having Tuitt, McLendon and Heyward, plus Dupree lined up with his hand on the ground, does not count as a "4-3." It's a 3-4 where you're telegraphing which linebacker is rushing. We've been trying that in various ineffective forms for years. That was the LeBeau sit-back and now Butler's conservative variant.

Us: "Here are the four guys who are going to rush straight-up, now line up and beat us."

Opponent: "lol, okay, thanks!"

Again, it's not a 4-3, just a lazy/ineffective 3-4.

[Mojouw]

It was effective when you had dominant OLB that could beat their match-up off the line (Harrison and young Woodley). Lacking those edge rushers, it is pretty sucky.

Which I is why I wouldn't be shocked to see the first draft pick be some sort of edge defender.

[BlackAndGold]

I mean ... I don't know what to tell you, except sorry, dude, that's not what it is. Sorry to Wexell too if he's also going blind.

Having Tuitt, McLendon and Heyward, plus Dupree lined up with his hand on the ground, does not count as a "4-3." It's a 3-4 where you're telegraphing which linebacker is rushing. We've been trying that in various ineffective forms for years. That was the LeBeau sit-back and now Butler's conservative variant.

Us: "Here are the four guys who are going to rush straight-up, now line up and beat us."

Opponent: "lol, okay, thanks!"

Again, it's not a 4-3, just a lazy/ineffective 3-4.

Troll confirmed.

Use Google kiddo. Learn your team. It's a fact the Steelers use their nickel package 70% of the time(which doesn't include a nose tackle(McLendon), since it's a scheme to use a 5th defensive back, which is needed in today's NFL where teams spread offense's out)

[fansince'76]

http://www.nfl.com/player/jasonjones/2507473/profile

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His best game in his career was against the steelers in 2008 with the Titans(3.5 sacks in this game)

A lot of nondescript DLs had career games against our turnstiles, err, offensive line, around that time...

[fansince'76]

Please keep it civil, folks.

[hawaiiansteeler]

There's no arguing that McLendon is on the field a lot

McLendon was on the field for 34% of the Steelers defensive snaps last season, so barely more than a third of the time

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/01/steelers-total-player-snap-counts-for-2015-season/

[Mojouw]

Troll confirmed.

Use Google kiddo. Learn your team. It's a fact the Steelers use their nickel package 70% of the time(which doesn't include a nose tackle(McLendon), since it's a scheme to use a 5th defensive back, which is needed in today's NFL where teams spread offense's out)

Before you get all huffy and disrespectful, you might want to bone up on your football terminology. A nickel sub package is indeed removing front 7 player for an extra DB. It is not then a 4-3. The Steelers run a 3-4 front as their base package and they typically have two primary nickel looks. The first is to remove the NT and slide the DEs inside to a more traditional 3 technique alignment and fill the 5 technique gaps with OLBs. Then some combination of the 2 ILbs and 5 DBs arrayed beyond that 4 man front. So, yes, in a way it looks like a 4-3 alignment based on the 3-4 DEs sliding in and aligning themselves in the more traditional positions of 4-3 DTs and the OLBs taking on the role of rush ends. But, c'mon no one really thinks of it that way. The second look, and we haven't seen this in some time, is to only keep one DL on the field and go with that "ameoba" of LBs and DBs behind it. Sometimes they would run that with 2 DLs, usually Aaron Smith and Kiesel lined up like 4-3 DTs, but - again, no one would mistake it for a 4-3 defense.

Now, has there been a ton of talk this offseason by Colbert and others saying the Steelers are more open than before at taking a look at "4-3 type players"? Yes. Clearly they are attempting to find more of a pass rush from their DL grouping. Does that mean we can think of the Steelers defense as a 4-3? Nope. Heck, most teams aren't in their base defense the majority of the time anyways anymore. Denver and Seattle are the two that come to mind as running their base package more than most - but that is beside the point.

If you are going to call someone out - get your facts in order first.

[ALLD]

Does Jones have any STDs?

[steelreserve]

Troll confirmed.

Use Google kiddo. Learn your team. It's a fact the Steelers use their nickel package 70% of the time(which doesn't include a nose tackle(McLendon), since it's a scheme to use a 5th defensive back, which is needed in today's NFL where teams spread offense's out)


On what planet made entirely of crack cocaine do we use a 4-3 defense 70% of the time? The majority was 3-4 or a nickel sub package, and the nickel formations sure as hell weren't a 4-2-5.


wow, just ... wow. Are you actually arguing that a nickel package is the same thing as a 4-3? Really? And I'm the one who needs to learn my team?

Or is this just one of those things people say trying to be cute? "Ho ho, look at me, I'll call it a 4-3 any time four players are rushing - see how I did that! I am so clever and unorthodox!" (In which case, who's the troll)

Tell me how many times Tuitt, Heyward, McLendon and Thomas were on the field at the same time. Unless you're claiming we did that two-thirds of the time, guess what ... we don't run a 4-3.

[polamalubeast]

The Steelers don't need a dominant nose tackle, if their defense is a 2-4-5 for 70% of the time.

Now the base offense in the NFL is 3 WR, 1 TE and 1 RB.When you play against that, the nose tackle is out of the field and you add a CB.Even when Hampton was in his prime, Hampton was not on the field against the offense at 3 WR.

[BlackAndGold]

@jimwexell (https://twitter.com/jimwexell) 19h19 hours ago (https://twitter.com/jimwexell/status/708119165585006594)
Lol. It's still so hard for Steelers fans to wrap their heads around the fact they're a 4-3 team.

[steelreserve]

The Steelers don't need a dominant nose tackle, if their defense is a 2-4-5 for 70% of the time.

Now the base offense in the NFL is 3 WR, 1 TE and 1 RB.When you play against that, the nose tackle is out of the field and you add a CB.Even when Hampton was in his prime, Hampton was not on the field against the offense at 3 WR.


If they had a dominant DT who could provide pressure, and not simply a 300-pound fat guy standing his ground in the middle, I'm willing to bet the nickel defense would change to a 3-3-5. We largely play a 2-4-5 because the fourth LB in the "4" is better than the third DL in the "3." (And when that's Jarvis Jones or Arthur Moats, that really goes to show the sorry state of affairs at DL.) If there's one thing that seems like Butler has a willingness to do, it's change the scheme regularly to get the best players out there.

Casey Hampton was only a two-down player by the end - but he also had trouble playing every down later in his career because he was so fat and tired. Earlier on, it seemed like he was just in there whenever, as part of the regular rotation.

[polamalubeast]

If they had a dominant DT who could provide pressure, and not simply a 300-pound fat guy standing his ground in the middle, I'm willing to bet the nickel defense would change to a 3-3-5. We largely play a 2-4-5 because the fourth LB in the "4" is better than the third DL in the "3." (And when that's Jarvis Jones or Arthur Moats, that really goes to show the sorry state of affairs at DL.) If there's one thing that seems like Butler has a willingness to do, it's change the scheme regularly to get the best players out there.

Casey Hampton was only a two-down player by the end - but he also had trouble playing every down later in his career because he was so fat and tired. Earlier on, it seemed like he was just in there whenever, as part of the regular rotation.

I prefer a dominant OLB like Harrison or even Porter in their prime than a dominant NT, especially in the NFL of today

Do you know the NT of the 2015 Broncos ?

[Mojouw]

@jimwexell (https://twitter.com/jimwexell) 19h19 hours ago (https://twitter.com/jimwexell/status/708119165585006594)
Lol. It's still so hard for Steelers fans to wrap their heads around the fact they're a 4-3 team.


Just because Wexell said something dumb on Twitter doesn't make it true. Here is essentially what I suspect Wexell is referring to: http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/01/parsing-keith-butlers-comments-on-using-4-3-looks/

But his comments aren't really correct. Because it isn't a "true" 4-3. The OLBs are too undersized to really fill the roles of designated 4-3 ends. The Steelers lack a true weak side LB in the Derrick Brooks mold - that is why you have to drop the safety down. And as we saw last season, all the Steelers LBers not named Ryan Shazier, are miscast in the drop and cover roles typically assigned to middle linebackers in most versions of a 4-3. Think of Urlacher in his prime.

So while we can all pretty much agree that the Steelers defense spends a great deal of time in a formation/package that features 4 large men lined up with their hands in the dirt - it really isn't a 4-3 in the traditional sense at all. The skills and sizes of the players are all wrong.

Now, this offseason will be very interesting to see where things go. If you see defensive players drafted that are between 265-275 and they are intended to rush the passer - then maybe a shift is on. It could be possible because Bud Dupree is kind of a freak. He has the athleticism to play 3-4 OLB AND the size to play 4-3 end. If instead you see defensive lineman who are north of 300 pounds and are not known for their pass rushing off the edge - then a return to the traditional elements of a 3-4 is on and Steelreserve got his monster NT.

Long story short, posting the same flawed comment over and over again does not make it any more true.

[Rotorhead]

When our rush defense was crap was when Cam Thomas was on the field (it just happens that he is paired with McClendon most of the time). We shut down the Broncos run game all day until the end, when we finally had to rest Tuitt and Heyward, so we had Cam Thomas and McClendon in the during that killer drive, but I would have to say Thomas was the major contributer to the suck. McClendon, while not a probowl NT can play NT and DE, so that in itself makes him worth keeping. Of course there is a drop off in talent when he is in the game, but there are few better DE's than Heyward and Tuitt in the game right now. If we can keep him, and draft 1-2 good DL, our DL problems will be no more. I think Dupree will be a beast next season, so we are just one piece from having a dominant front seven IMO.

[Dwinsgames]

@jimwexell (https://twitter.com/jimwexell) 19h19 hours ago (https://twitter.com/jimwexell/status/708119165585006594)
Lol. It's still so hard for Steelers fans to wrap their heads around the fact they're a 4-3 team.



I would not put a ton of stock in ANYTHING Jim Wexell says , I know lots like him but honestly the man is clueless a large portion of the time ...

He tried to argue with me one day with the claims that Teddy Bridgewater was a horrible QB and would have sat the bench behind Kordell Stewart if both played at same time ...

while I do not think Bridgewater is a "GREAT" QB I do believe he is above league average and a damned sight better than Kordell ever was as a QB

but hey he makes money at doing this for a living so I guess he is right and I am wrong ( shrug )

[hawaiiansteeler]

@jimwexell (https://twitter.com/jimwexell) Lol. It's still so hard for Steelers fans to wrap their heads around the fact they're a 4-3 team.


Scott Treat @Treat88

@jimwexell More of a 3-3 team since ya can't count Cam Thomas laying on his back 5 yards down field 2 sec after the snap.

https://twitter.com/jimwexell?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7 Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[BlackAndGold]

Scott Treat @Treat88

@jimwexell More of a 3-3 team since ya can't count Cam Thomas laying on his back 5 yards down field 2 sec after the snap.

https://twitter.com/jimwexell?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7 Ctwgr%5Eauthor

:chuckle:

[steelreserve]

When our rush defense was crap was when Cam Thomas was on the field (it just happens that he is paired with McClendon most of the time). We shut down the Broncos run game all day until the end, when we finally had to rest Tuitt and Heyward, so we had Cam Thomas and McClendon in the during that killer drive, but I would have to say Thomas was the major contributer to the suck. McClendon, while not a probowl NT can play NT and DE, so that in itself makes him worth keeping. Of course there is a drop off in talent when he is in the game, but there are few better DE's than Heyward and Tuitt in the game right now. If we can keep him, and draft 1-2 good DL, our DL problems will be no more. I think Dupree will be a beast next season, so we are just one piece from having a dominant front seven IMO.

If we draft a good DL or two and they see enough playing time to make a difference, THAT is what we need. They would make McLendon more or less irrelevant. And if he's in the Cam Thomas occasional backup role, I suppose I would take that over McLendon being in the Steve McLendon backup/starter role.

What I do NOT want to see is us signing McLendon and saying "welp, the defensive line is taken care of - now let's go draft tight ends and offensive guards and maybe waste a pick on some shitty kick returner!" Or for us to draft a dominant DE or DT and McLendon to be entrenched as the starter because he's the incumbent. We seem like we're smart enough this offsesaon to avoid that, but the past, I don't know, five years of not addressing it make me wary.

The one thing I am not trying to argue for at all is to let McLendon go and ALSO not draft someone highly for the DL. That would just be stupid. But if I had to pick between keeping McLendon, or signing an above-average or even just an average free-agent DB and then taking our chances on DT in the draft - that decision doesn't even take a half-second.

[BlackAndGold]

Good article from Matthew Marczi on the Steelers exploring options to improve 4-man front.

The Pittsburgh Steelers had a rather active three days of free agency, including the two days leading into it, re-signing four of their own players, while also bringing in a new tight end from the outside. Other than making the Ladarius Green signing official, yesterday was pretty quiet, but later in the day reports surfaced that the team could be interested in adding depth to the edge defender position (http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/report-steelers-interested-in-lions-free-agent-de-jason-jones/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter).And the name that they were connected to was Jason Jones, a former 2008 second-round draft pick who has played primarily in a fairly traditional 4-3 defense over the course of his career—which is precisely what makes his name surfacing so intriguing, at least schematically.

You see, it has become obvious over the course of the past season under the ‘new’ defensive regime that the Steelers are evolving schematically, and now feature what is essentially a nickel 4-3 look as their base defense, or rather a 4-2-5, with two 3-4 defensive ends and two 3-4 outside linebackers serving as the four-man front.

Quibble all you want about what is ‘true’ or not and whether not it is essential for a player to be aligned in a three-point stance to be included in the front-line tally; the bottom line is that the Steelers now primarily use a four-man front in a way that is not unlike a 4-3.

If you think I’m going off the deep end here, consider what Kevin Colbert said himself last month about how the increased reliance upon sub-package football could alter their evaluations: “maybe a kid that we wouldn’t look at in the past as a 4-3 end, now we can because he’ll be a sub-package rusher, which is on the field three-quarters of the time (http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/02/changes-on-defense-could-lead-to-changes-in-how-steelers-build-roster/)”.
Now, Jones isn’t exactly a kid—he’ll be turning 30 during the offseason—but he is at least a proof of concept in the Steelers’ potential interest in adding a legitimate 4-3 end to serve as a legitimate 4-3 end in their four-man front during sub-packages.

It’s worth pointing out that the team added the 6’4”, 269-pound Bud Dupree to the outside linebacker group in the first round last year, who is virtually the size of a 4-3 end. A player such as Jones—6’5”, 275 pound—bookending him on the other side as a specialist pass rusher would be an interesting wrinkle for the Steelers.

Jones is also a player that they would likely also use inside in sub-packages, and perhaps even at end in their base defense to help spell their starters, which is certainly a need after seeing the workload that they were put through during the course of the 2015 season.

While he is not exactly an All-Pro by any means—he started 15 games in a rotation for the Lions last year, playing under 600 snaps, registering 4.5 sacks—he is one of the best remaining edge defenders in this free agent class, along with Robert Ayers most recently of the Giants—at least among those without major character concerns, such as a certain player in Dallas, and another most recently in Oakland

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/steelers-exploring-options-improve-4-man-front/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[lipps83]

I don't care what style of defensive front they deploy as long as they bring it with violence.

Violence is missing from this defense.

[fansince'76]

I don't care what style of defensive front they deploy as long as they bring it with violence.

Violence is missing from this defense.

Seemed to correspond with the number of fines our defenders were starting to get...

[teegre]

LOUD NOISES!!!!!

[steelreserve]

Whatever defensive front you want to call it, Jones looks like he kind of sucks, and McLendon is pretty non-special himself.

If you're playing a 3-4 base or 2-4-5 nickel and rush four players, that's not a 4-3. That's just rushing your linebackers. Which is about the most fundamental "duh" concept that happens nearly every play in either of those formations.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvF_-bIqP1A

[zulater]

I would not put a ton of stock in ANYTHING Jim Wexell says , I know lots like him but honestly the man is clueless a large portion of the time ...

He tried to argue with me one day with the claims that Teddy Bridgewater was a horrible QB and would have sat the bench behind Kordell Stewart if both played at same time ...

while I do not think Bridgewater is a "GREAT" QB I do believe he is above league average and a damned sight better than Kordell ever was as a QB

but hey he makes money at doing this for a living so I guess he is right and I am wrong ( shrug )


What makes Bridgewater "above average"? I don't think he's even proven himself close to average. Ask Mike Wallace how above average Teddy is. I've never been big on Kordell, but I'd take Kordell's 97 or 01 season over either of Teddy's seasons to date.

[pczach]

Everybody is arguing over semantics. Even NFL coaches and coordinators generically call a defense a 3-4 or 4-3 based on the number of down lineman in any formation. Hell, I just saw a coach on NFL Network just say this very thing a few days ago. They don't get all technical with every variation of the base sets when speaking in generalizations. They just talk of everything in sub packages or variations of the number of down linemen, with the down defensive linemen as the determining factor.

In other words, its just like when they rush 5 with 3 down linemen and 2 OLBs rushing the quarterback, it is generally accepted that they are in a 3-4 set because of the 3 down linemen. Nobody is really saying they are playing a 5 man front or a 5-2. They generally just say it's a variation of a 3-4.

The same applies when there are 4 defensive linemen with their hand on the ground. It doesn't matter if they rush 5 with a LB standing up at the LOS. It is still generally considered a 4-3 set or a variation of it because of the 4 down linemen.

There's really no point arguing too much about it because everybody is generally correct. I think you guys are getting a little too worked up over semantics.

[Steelman]

Good post, pczach.

I don't think we realize how lucky we are to have Heyward and Tuitt on our D-line. THAT is why we're even having this conversation right now. They're extremely multi-talented big fellas. But the fact is, they're just looks. We don't have the edge rushers to play true 4-3, regardless of what people say. We're a 3-4 defense that runs a ton of sub-package looks.

[Dwinsgames]

What makes Bridgewater "above average"? I don't think he's even proven himself close to average. Ask Mike Wallace how above average Teddy is. I've never been big on Kordell, but I'd take Kordell's 97 or 01 season over either of Teddy's seasons to date.

a 23 year old kid 2 years in the league vs a full career ... yea that seems fair ..

Teddy has shown he has what it takes , but he is just a kid yet with a lot to learn its not difficult to see he will surpass everything Kordell ever did as a passer in this league ..

in just his second year in the league last year he has already surpassed Kordells best year in terms of passing yards ...in fact Teddy's first two seasons in the league is greater than Kordells best 2 career years in passing yards ( combined totals ) so its pretty clear his arrow is pointed up

[steelreserve]

Everybody is arguing over semantics. Even NFL coaches and coordinators generically call a defense a 3-4 or 4-3 based on the number of down lineman in any formation. Hell, I just saw a coach on NFL Network just say this very thing a few days ago. They don't get all technical with every variation of the base sets when speaking in generalizations. They just talk of everything in sub packages or variations of the number of down linemen, with the down defensive linemen as the determining factor.

In other words, its just like when they rush 5 with 3 down linemen and 2 OLBs rushing the quarterback, it is generally accepted that they are in a 3-4 set because of the 3 down linemen. Nobody is really saying they are playing a 5 man front or a 5-2. They generally just say it's a variation of a 3-4.

The same applies when there are 4 defensive linemen with their hand on the ground. It doesn't matter if they rush 5 with a LB standing up at the LOS. It is still generally considered a 4-3 set or a variation of it because of the 4 down linemen.


Exactly. The crux of the matter is, the "normal" thing to do is rush about four guys whether you're in a 3-4, a 4-3 or a nickel variant. They're just different guys.

Our guys definitely fit the "three fat guys and a linebacker" profile (or two fat guys and two linebackers) a lot more than the "four slightly less fat guys" profile. Hence, a 3-4. But as you said, there are so many variations and sub packages and hybrids that the label isn't that important.

What really DOES matter is that we have a total of two effective fat guys, and a third one who's OK in a limited role, but not for creating pressure. So we need to improve that, no getting around it. Could we use a "traditional" 4-3 DE in our scheme? Absolutely. Would it fix THAT particular problem? Not really.

The other really important part, which is being largely overlooked thanks to all the arguing about schemes, is that Jones looks like he sucks.



There's really no point arguing too much about it because everybody is generally correct. I think you guys are getting a little too worked up over semantics.

Absolutely. I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm about to come out and suddenly start insulting people over nothing. Oh. Wait.

[zulater]

a 23 year old kid 2 years in the league vs a full career ... yea that seems fair ..

Teddy has shown he has what it takes , but he is just a kid yet with a lot to learn its not difficult to see he will surpass everything Kordell ever did as a passer in this league ..

in just his second year in the league last year he has already surpassed Kordells best year in terms of passing yards ...in fact Teddy's first two seasons in the league is greater than Kordells best 2 career years in passing yards ( combined totals ) so its pretty clear his arrow is pointed up

Well first off you claimed he was above average. Well I could easily make the case there were more than 16 starters last year that were easily better than him. So much for above average. Second you can't compare qb stats from one era to the other as you're trying to do. For example last season the league average for team passing yards was just over 3,900 The Vikings were 31st out of 32 teams this past year with 2928. In 97 Kordell's 3rd season first as a starter, the league average for passing yards was 3229. The Steelers finished 23rd in the league 3063 net passing yards. Now if we take it from a team level to a personal level Kordell's 97 season ( again only his 3rd in the league) blows Teddy's 15 season out of the water relative to era or even side by side irregardless of era. Kordell threw for 3020 yards 21 td's while additionally running for 476 yards and 11 td's. Teddy in his second season ( also 2nd season as a starter) starting threw for 3231 yards 14 td's, additionally running for 192 yards and 3 td's. So your dismissal of Wexall's opinion is absurd and mostly inaccurate. Wexall's opinion like any other sports writer is sometimes right and sometimes wrong. But he's generally a fairly accurate source on what's going on inside the Steelers facility and his overall football savvy is fairly high in my opinion and shouldn't be dismissed on Jason Jones ( as you've tried to do) because he's not sold on Bridgewater . Frankly neither am I. Relative to the modern era Teddy is far below average and I wouldn't want my teams future to be reliant upon him. Been there done that.

Enough of the thread derailment.

We'll see what happens with Jason Jones. Just because he was less than brilliant in Detriot doesn't mean he wouldn't be a good signing at the right price here.

[Dwinsgames]

Well first off you claimed he was above average. Well I could easily make the case there were more than 16 starters last year that were easily better than him. So much for above average. Second you can't compare qb stats from one era to the other as you're trying to do. For example last season the league average for team passing yards was just over 3,900 The Vikings were 31st out of 32 teams this past year with 2928. In 97 Kordell's 3rd season first as a starter, the league average for passing yards was 3229. The Steelers finished 23rd in the league 3063 net passing yards. Now if we take it from a team level to a personal level Kordell's 97 season ( again only his 3rd in the league) blows Teddy's 15 season out of the water relative to era or even side by side irregardless of era. Kordell threw for 3020 yards 21 td's while additionally running for 476 yards and 11 td's. Teddy in his second season ( also 2nd season as a starter) starting threw for 3231 yards 14 td's, additionally running for 192 yards and 3 td's. So your dismissal of Wexall's opinion is absurd and mostly inaccurate. Wexall's opinion like any other sports writer is sometimes right and sometimes wrong. But he's generally a fairly accurate source on what's going on inside the Steelers facility and his overall football savvy is fairly high in my opinion and shouldn't be dismissed on Jason Jones ( as you've tried to do) because he's not sold on Bridgewater . Frankly neither am I. Relative to the modern era Teddy is far below average and I wouldn't want my teams future to be reliant upon him. Been there done that.

Enough of the thread derailment.

We'll see what happens with Jason Jones. Just because he was less than brilliant in Detriot doesn't mean he wouldn't be a good signing at the right price here.

td -int ratio ? seems like that is a statistic that transcends era ..either you make good decisions or you don't

statistics in general does not tell the whole story they are just tools but if you watched both its pretty clear who is the QB and who was just a guy playing one on TV

[zulater]

td -int ratio ? seems like that is a statistic that transcends era ..either you make good decisions or you don't

statistics in general does not tell the whole story they are just tools but if you watched both its pretty clear who is the QB and who was just a guy playing one on TV

No what's clear is you're entrenched in an untenable position. So no sense wasting the boards time and discussing it any further. :coffee:

I will add one thing. Will anyone be surprised if the Vikings are looking to upgrade the qb position following the 16 season? Teddy is the same as Kordell in that both are the road to nowhere.

[Dwinsgames]

No what's clear is you're entrenched in an untenable position. So no sense wasting the boards time and discussing it any further. :coffee:

I will add one thing. Will anyone be surprised if the Vikings are looking to upgrade the qb position following the 16 season? Teddy is the same as Kordell in that both are the road to nowhere.

don't mind me while I bookmark this statement .... he is a 23 year old kid , most do not see many snaps at that age yet he has 6k yards passing already and a +ratio in terms of TD/Ints ....

thanks for wasting the boards time with me .... was my impression that is what a forum is for to discuss things , my bad

[Mojouw]

Jason jones is a mediocre rush end on the backside of his entirely mediocre career.

No thanks.


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[Shoes]

Jason jones is a mediocre rush end on the backside of his entirely mediocre career.

No thanks.


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Exactly, we don't need *mediocre*

[SteelerFanInStl]

Jason jones is a mediocre rush end on the backside of his entirely mediocre career.

No thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yea, I'm really hoping that we don't sign him. I'd rather give someone younger with some upside a chance.

[zulater]

don't mind me while I bookmark this statement .... he is a 23 year old kid , most do not see many snaps at that age yet he has 6k yards passing already and a +ratio in terms of TD/Ints ....

thanks for wasting the boards time with me .... was my impression that is what a forum is for to discuss things , my bad


Bookmark away. The Vikings were 31st in a 32 team league in passing yards with stability at the qb position. Not too hard to improve upon that sort of "production".

[Dwinsgames]

Bookmark away. The Vikings were 31st in a 32 team league in passing yards with stability at the qb position. Not too hard to improve upon that sort of "production".


Bridgewater was 22nd in the league at 23 years old ... with less attempts than Ben but they have this guy there you may have heard of Adrian Peterson he reduces the need to throw it a bunch , 65% completion percentage .. look I know you love Wexell but is He worth fighting for ? really ? you fight harder for his illogical points than he does

[zulater]

Bridgewater was 22nd in the league at 23 years old ... with less attempts than Ben but they have this guy there you may have heard of Adrian Peterson he reduces the need to throw it a bunch , 65% completion percentage .. look I know you love Wexell but is He worth fighting for ? really ? you fight harder for his illogical points than he does

I respect Wexall, doesn't mean I don't think he's ever wrong. And when he's wrong I'll gladly point it out. But I don;t think he's wrong on his discussion with you. While no great fan of Kordell I tend to believe if you had 3rd Kordell and 2nd year Teddy on your roster Teddy is sitting on the bench. And by the way in case you forgot Kordell had a pretty good back taking a lot of plays away from the passing game too.

Kordell was the first Pro Bowl alternate in 97. Teddy needed about 14 guys to opt out last year in order to get a whiff of the Pro Bowl. Not that the Pro Bowl is that great a barometer, but know this. At his best Kordell was highly regarded around the league. Teddy not so much. That's what 6 yards per completion will get you I guess.

Again do your bookmark, Teddy Bridgewater will not be a starting qb in 3 years. He's limited as in he pretty much sucks. Yes and so did Kordell. But at least Kordell twice got to a conference championship game. Your Teddy, well see?

Tell you what, do me a favor, if Teddy's so important to you start a thread with a poll on the NFL forum about him and I'll go into more specific detail about why he sucks and will never amount to jack shit. But this is the last I discuss him on this thread or any other unrelated thread not specific to him. He's just not important to me.

[Dwinsgames]

That's what 6 yards per completion will get you I guess.


7.2ypcompletion .... http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&season=2015&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

- - - Updated - - -



That's what 6 yards per completion will get you I guess.

Kordell averaged 6.2 http://www.nfl.com/player/kordellstewart/2503142/careerstats


(http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&season=2015&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

[zulater]

7.2ypcompletion .... http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&season=2015&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

- - - Updated - - -


Kordell averaged 6.2 http://www.nfl.com/player/kordellstewart/2503142/careerstats


(http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&season=2015&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

This is not the topic of this thread. :coffee:

[hawaiiansteeler]

This is not the topic of this thread. :coffee:

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g56/segasonicdude/Derailed_thread_by_StareOfGreed.jpg

[tube517]

So, is Jason Jones basically another Dirty Dick/sucky DL/journeyman backup?

[st33lersguy]

So, is Jason Jones basically another Dirty Dick/sucky DL/journeyman backup?

That's what I am thinking

[BlackAndGold]

Jones has visited the Steelers

[polamalubeast]

709512439285608450

[hawaiiansteeler]

So, is Jason Jones basically another Dirty Dick/sucky DL/journeyman backup?

PFF’S TOP 75 FREE AGENTS OF 2016

51. Jason Jones, DE

2015 team: Detroit Lions

Jones has consistently generated pressure over the last two years, and would primarily be a rotational pass-rusher going forward.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/02/15/pro-pffs-top-75-free-agents-of-2016/

[zulater]

PFF’S TOP 75 FREE AGENTS OF 2016

51. Jason Jones, DE

2015 team: Detroit Lions

Jones has consistently generated pressure over the last two years, and would primarily be a rotational pass-rusher going forward.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/02/15/pro-pffs-top-75-free-agents-of-2016/

That sounds like someone who could help to me. Not sure why everyone hates the idea of signing him so much? :noidea:

[Born2Steel]

Don't hate him, don't know him. He's been in the league 8 years and this is the first I'm hearing his name.

[zulater]

To me this has the feel of a Mewelde Moore, Will Allen, Darius Heyward Bey type under the radar signing that will quietly pay dividends for several seasons.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Don't hate him, don't know him. He's been in the league 8 years and this is the first I'm hearing his name.

Jones had 3 1/2 sacks against the Steelers in his rookie year (2008) when he was with the Titans.

[polamalubeast]

Jones had 3 1/2 sacks against the Steelers in his rookie year (2008) when he was with the Titans.


against the worst offensive line ever to win a super bowl!!!

Seriously, I think it would be a good acquisition which would add depth on defense.

[hawaiiansteeler]

against the worst offensive line ever to win a super bowl!!!

Seriously, I think it would be a good acquisition which would add depth on defense.

who were the two starting OTs in 2008, Starks and Colon?

[polamalubeast]

who were the two starting OTs in 2008, Starks and Colon?

Yes...But the interior offensive line was awful....I think Jones played DT in this game if I remember correctly.

[pczach]

who were the two starting OTs in 2008, Starks and Colon?


Those two were the starting tackles in the Super Bowl, but I think they brought Starks back because Marvel Smith got hurt that year.

Does anyone else remember this. I'm not sure.

[tube517]

Those two were the starting tackles in the Super Bowl, but I think they brought Starks back because Marvel Smith got hurt that year.

Does anyone else remember this. I'm not sure.

Smith played 5 games in 2008 and was placed on IR. Starks took over at LT

[pczach]

Smith played 5 games in 2008 and was placed on IR. Starks took over at LT


Thanks, I thought that's what happened. :thumbsup:

[Devilsdancefloor]

I honestly don't see how this guy would do shit for us.
Agreed

[tube517]

Thanks, I thought that's what happened. :thumbsup:

NP

I forgot that Marvel Smith was even on that team. LOL

[Mojouw]

Doesn't matter who was playing on the line. It was 6 years ago. That's like 125 in fat D lineman years. Is rather a gamble on a younger guy.


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[hawaiiansteeler]

Report: Dolphins will sign Jason Jones

Posted by Zac Jackson on May 13, 2016

The Dolphins plan to sign veteran defensive lineman Jason Jones, NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport reported Friday.

Jones visited the Dolphins in March and again last month.

Jones has played multiple positions across the defensive line in his eight-year career, which started when the Titans picked him in the second round in 2008. He played the last three seasons with the Lions.

With the compensatory pick threshold for free agents having passed, players like Jones who were still on the market could find new teams quickly.

Jones started 31 games over the last two seasons for the Lions and had 9.5 sacks during that time.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/13/report-dolphins-will-sign-jason-jones/

[BlackAndGold]

Didn't see a spot on the team for Jones.

The team is done signing free agents Imo. I could see Will Allen being brought back sometime during training camp though.