DHB 3 Year $3.8 M

[Shoes]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/report-steelers-re-sign-wr-darrius-heyward-bey-to-multi-year-contract/

[st33lersguy]

Solid signing given the price

[Mojouw]

Can't argue with this move at all.

[Shoes]

Can't argue with this move at all.

Agreed, he has improved and has a good head. Good deal!

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://45.media.tumblr.com/355b890c7da9372cfa2cbf70d5509586/tumblr_ml17fhN36h1s0teago1_400.gif

[Count Steeler]

Good start.

[Cyphon25]

2 for 2 so far in free agency.

[polamalubeast]

Good move!

[ALLD]

A+ deal

[steelreserve]

Nice!

I think this also makes Wheaton expendable when his contract is up, which is a good thing because he'll probably command 3-4 times that an in all honesty, DHB played better when given the chance.

[Psycho Ward 86]

really surprised we were able to extend him for so long on so little. good work Colbert

[Cyphon25]

Nice!

I think this also makes Wheaton expendable when his contract is up, which is a good thing because he'll probably command 3-4 times that an in all honesty, DHB played better when given the chance.

Indeed.

The course of action I would take is shopping Wheaton now for a trade parter to maybe get a pick or 2 in the upcoming draft. We have no 5th or 6th so adding some more picks would be great. Even with Wheaton gone you still have 4 starter capable guys in Brown, Bryant, DHB and Coates. Coates may be a little behind but he already performed well on a bigger stage in the playoffs so I can't see it being too big of an issue. We also have Eli Rodgers waiting in the wings as well.

So if you can find someone willing I say move on from Wheaton now for some DP's.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Indeed.

The course of action I would take is shopping Wheaton now for a trade parter to maybe get a pick or 2 in the upcoming draft. We have no 5th or 6th so adding some more picks would be great. Even with Wheaton gone you still have 4 starter capable guys in Brown, Bryant, DHB and Coates. Coates may be a little behind but he already performed well on a bigger stage in the playoffs so I can't see it being too big of an issue. We also have Eli Rodgers waiting in the wings as well.

So if you can find someone willing I say move on from Wheaton now for some DP's.

or you can keep the best offense in the league armed to the teeth..

[Cyphon25]

or you can keep the best offense in the league armed to the teeth..

Meh, Wheaton was a ghost for most of the season. What good is a water gun amongst assault rifles?

[polamalubeast]

Never I trade Wheaton unless this is for a 3rd round pick.

I would be happy if Wheaton sign a similar contract that Sanders has had with the Broncos too.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Meh, Wheaton was a ghost for most of the season. What good is a water gun amongst assault rifles?

he was great once him and Ben got on the same page. Are you forgetting how much of a ghost Bryant also is when he's not on the same page as Ben either?

"water gun" smh...this situation sounds an awful like the shit talking festival during Sanders inevitable departure. Yeah, he wasnt quite on the same page as Ben, but the talent was always clearly there. And then people acted surprised when he made a pro bowl (a well deserved one) season

Wheaton will be a good #2/great #3 for some other team out there after 2016 as long as he doesnt get stuck with the browns or something

[Cyphon25]

he was great once him and Ben got on the same page. Are you forgetting how much of a ghost Bryant also is when he's not on the same page as Ben either?

"water gun" smh...this situation sounds an awful like the shit talking festival during Sanders inevitable departure. Yeah, he wasnt quite on the same page as Ben, but the talent was always clearly there. And then people acted surprised when he made a pro bowl (a well deserved one) season

Wheaton will be a good #2/great #3 for some other team out there after 2016 as long as he doesnt get stuck with the browns or something

I always liked Sanders and thought he should have stayed. Wheaton isn't quite that talent level. He is a solid number 3 option but we have better options. If you can get some draft picks for him I take them in a heartbeat as long as it isn't 2 number 7's or something. I'd probably do a 3 straight up or a 4 and a 6 or something like that.

And keep in mind when talking about being armed that when Wheaton is on the field you have a different weapon sidelined in Coates or DHB, both of whom are arguably bigger play threats.

Wheaton is a good dude and I have never had a problem with him, he would just be no big loss for us and if anything a nice gain if we could recoup some draft picks.

[SteelerFanInStl]

While I don't think that Wheaton is anything special, I wouldn't trade him for less than a 3rd round pick. I'd like to see Coates play more but what happens if you trade Wheaton and then one of the top 3 get hurt? We'd be screwed.

[hawaiiansteeler]

While I don't think that Wheaton is anything special, I wouldn't trade him for less than a 3rd round pick. I'd like to see Coates play more but what happens if you trade Wheaton and then one of the top 3 get hurt? We'd be screwed.

I agree.

not to mention that we would be one Maryjanetavis Bryant :smoker: positive drug test away from having Coates and DHB as our #2 and #3 WRs for the rest of the season.

[polamalubeast]

706969087872663552

[Cyphon25]

706969087872663552

Maybe Wheaton now? Lol.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Maybe Wheaton now? Lol.

Wheaton is not a free agent, that would be tampering...

[tube517]

Wheaton is not a free agent, that would be tampering...

:poker:

[salamander]

Wheaton is not a free agent, that would be tampering...

Oh, we're talking about the Patriots** now? :chuckle:

[hawaiiansteeler]

:poker:

:bond:

[steelreserve]

he was great once him and Ben got on the same page. Are you forgetting how much of a ghost Bryant also is when he's not on the same page as Ben either?

"water gun" smh...this situation sounds an awful like the shit talking festival during Sanders inevitable departure. Yeah, he wasnt quite on the same page as Ben, but the talent was always clearly there. And then people acted surprised when he made a pro bowl (a well deserved one) season

Wheaton will be a good #2/great #3 for some other team out there after 2016 as long as he doesnt get stuck with the browns or something


What it looked like to me was, Wheaton has been decent when he's the #3 receiver and matched up against the nickel corner. Any time we've asked him to step up and do more, he disappears. So, more likely just not that good at getting open against A and B-level defenders. We can do without that for $4 million a year, especially when we've got a guy behind him who may be good.



While I don't think that Wheaton is anything special, I wouldn't trade him for less than a 3rd round pick. I'd like to see Coates play more but what happens if you trade Wheaton and then one of the top 3 get hurt? We'd be screwed.

If we trade Wheaton and someone gets hurt, then we have three of Coates, DHB, Bryant and Brown left. So basically not much different from usual. You are not "screwed" if the stand-in for your fourth receiver is a rookie or a random cheap free agent, in fact that's what they usually are.

I still wouldn't be seeking to actively trade him, though. We can still use him for a year. And if we did trade him, what we'd get is probably not much more than the compensatory pick we'd get by letting him walk next offseason. He'll probably get a contract that's above his weight, so we could get something like a 4th or a 5th anyway. Depending on what else we do in FA, of course.

[Mojouw]

I am no fan of paying Wheaton tons of dough. The team can cross that bridge when this season is over. But I will go on record that Marcus Wheaton is a better WR than DHB. Not a harder worker. Not a better teammate. But a more reliable and talented WR.

[SteelerFanInStl]

If we trade Wheaton and someone gets hurt, then we have three of Coates, DHB, Bryant and Brown left. So basically not much different from usual. You are not "screwed" if the stand-in for your fourth receiver is a rookie or a random cheap free agent, in fact that's what they usually are.

Well I sure as Hell don't want DHB as our #3, let alone our #2. He's a decent #4 but that's it. Bryant isn't exactly Mr. Reliable either and Coates is completely untested. Wheaton is a much more reliable WR than anyone besides Brown.

[steelerdude15]

Another good depth resigning.

[Cyphon25]

I am no fan of paying Wheaton tons of dough. The team can cross that bridge when this season is over. But I will go on record that Marcus Wheaton is a better WR than DHB. Not a harder worker. Not a better teammate. But a more reliable and talented WR.

I agree with your first part but not the 2nd. He really isn't much more reliable or talented. In fact, DHB is a first round talent that never really maximized his potential but is getting there in small doses with us. He just isn't afforded as many opportunities. And as far as the reliable part from what I could find he wasn't credited with any drops this season while Wheaton had 2.

Both are relatively savvy at getting first downs for us but I would lean towards DHB being the most consistent big play threat as well.


Well I sure as Hell don't want DHB as our #3, let alone our #2. He's a decent #4 but that's it. Bryant isn't exactly Mr. Reliable either and Coates is completely untested. Wheaton is a much more reliable WR than anyone besides Brown.

See above. Wheaton isn't more reliable than DHB. I would say it is pretty even. And to your point about DHB being a decent #4 you could make the same argument about Wheaton. He was a ghost for the whole season outside of the Seahawks game. You could take him out of the lineup and there would be no drop off whatsoever.

Now Bryant for sure has some hands problems so I won't argue him. But he is just so much more talented than Wheaton outside of that you take the good with the bad.

[Psycho Ward 86]

jesus, this is some deja vu shit.

steeler fans will tell themselves ANYTHING to feel assured that any inevitable losses are peanuts.

yeah of course we can do really well without Wheaton, he's still a great asset. DHB is another guy im ecstatic to keep but theres nothing he's better at or even close to better at than wheaton other than running in a straight line. Did everyone sleep on the fact that Wheaton actually led the team in YPC by a huge margin? 1.7 more than Bryant, and 2 more than DHB, and this is coming from a receiver who is best at just moving the sticks.

"solid" is a horribly overused safe answer. if Wheaton is a 'solid' #3, id like to see what a great one is. How many teams have a better #3 than us? Honestly. Wheaton was clearly NOT a ghost outside of the seahawks game. you definitely didnt watch the games if that was the case.

If you have a chance to keep intact an offense capable of shattering the all time offenses, you better keep it together. especially when one of the cogs is still on a cheap rookie contract.

Btw, all this Wheaton trade talk insinuates supreme confidence in Bryant. He's still streaky as it is. Amusing double standards.


But-but-but he has more potential. but but but repeat drug offender

[steelreserve]

jesus, this is some deja vu shit.

steeler fans will tell themselves ANYTHING to feel assured that any inevitable losses are peanuts.

yeah of course we can do really well without Wheaton, he's still a great asset. DHB is another guy im ecstatic to keep but theres nothing he's better at or even close to better at than wheaton other than running in a straight line. Did everyone sleep on the fact that Wheaton actually led the team in YPC by a huge margin? 1.7 more than Bryant, and 2 more than DHB, and this is coming from a receiver who is best at just moving the sticks.

"solid" is a horribly overused safe answer. if Wheaton is a 'solid' #3, id like to see what a great one is. How many teams have a better #3 than us? Honestly. Wheaton was clearly NOT a ghost outside of the seahawks game. you definitely didnt watch the games if that was the case.

If you have a chance to keep intact an offense capable of shattering the all time offenses, you better keep it together. especially when one of the cogs is still on a cheap rookie contract.

Btw, all this Wheaton trade talk insinuates supreme confidence in Bryant. He's still streaky as it is. Amusing double standards.


But-but-but he has more potential. but but but repeat drug offender


OK, we'll watch the offense go to shit once Wheaton leaves, just like it did with Wallace and then Sanders. Shit, us Steelers fans overvalue our players and undervalue them!

I watched every single game and really didn't see Wheaton do much outside of the Seahawks game and one good play in the Chargers game. That was seriously more than a third of his season. He has obvious shortcomings, more so than Sanders as a #3, and I really do not see any of the sky's-the-limit potential that Brown/Wallace/Sanders/Bryant had. Just doing what's expected when it's set up for him, but not creating anything himself. He's a dime-a-dozen receiver. The offensive version of 2011-12 Lamarr Woodley. We don't need to pay a shitload of money for that.

[Cyphon25]

jesus, this is some deja vu shit.

steeler fans will tell themselves ANYTHING to feel assured that any inevitable losses are peanuts.

Steelreserve covered it well below but we can just put it right back on you in Steeler fans overvaluing the players we have. I like most of our guys but I am realistic about it whether it is harsh or not.


yeah of course we can do really well without Wheaton, he's still a great asset. DHB is another guy im ecstatic to keep but theres nothing he's better at or even close to better at than wheaton other than running in a straight line. Did everyone sleep on the fact that Wheaton actually led the team in YPC by a huge margin? 1.7 more than Bryant, and 2 more than DHB, and this is coming from a receiver who is best at just moving the sticks.

Great asset? A little bit of hyperbole don't you think? Antonio Brown is a great asset, Le'Veon Bell is a great asset, Ben Roethlisberger is a great asset. Markus Wheaton is decent.


"solid" is a horribly overused safe answer. if Wheaton is a 'solid' #3, id like to see what a great one is. How many teams have a better #3 than us? Honestly. Wheaton was clearly NOT a ghost outside of the seahawks game. you definitely didnt watch the games if that was the case.

Hard to say which teams have better without going through all of them and watching game by game. And yes, he was a ghost. If you remove that Seahawks game he had a very forgettable and mundane season.

Let's just put it into context about the whole "ghost" thing. Wheaton had 3 games this year with more than 3 receptions. DHB had 4 games with over 3. I don't know if Ben and Wheaton have just never developed that chemistry or Wheaton is just having trouble getting open.


If you have a chance to keep intact an offense capable of shattering the all time offenses, you better keep it together. especially when one of the cogs is still on a cheap rookie contract.

Btw, all this Wheaton trade talk insinuates supreme confidence in Bryant. He's still streaky as it is. Amusing double standards.


But-but-but he has more potential. but but but repeat drug offender

No double standard at all. I have gotten on Bryant plenty for not being able to make tough catches but the thing with Bryant is that even when he is off he is noticeable in the games. Teams can't ignore him. Ben looks for him and he is a big play threat every snap. He is also one of the most dangerous players in the NFL after the catch. And you are talking about a guy who is has just now totaled his first full season. This will be year 5 for Wheaton.

And again, Wheaton isn't really a primary part of what makes this offense capable of shattering records so I am not sure why you keep bringing that up. If Wheaton leaves everything that makes this offense one of the best in the NFL is still there and may even get better because other big play guys like Coates and DHB will get more opportunities.

[Psycho Ward 86]

OK, we'll watch the offense go to shit once Wheaton leaves, just like it did with Wallace and then Sanders. Shit, us Steelers fans overvalue our players and undervalue them!

I watched every single game and really didn't see Wheaton do much outside of the Seahawks game and one good play in the Chargers game. That was seriously more than a third of his season. He has obvious shortcomings, more so than Sanders as a #3, and I really do not see any of the sky's-the-limit potential that Brown/Wallace/Sanders/Bryant had. Just doing what's expected when it's set up for him, but not creating anything himself. He's a dime-a-dozen receiver. The offensive version of 2011-12 Lamarr Woodley. We don't need to pay a shitload of money for that.

You missed the key phraseology here: "If you have a chance to keep intact an offense capable of shattering the all time offenses, you better keep it together. especially when one of the cogs is still on a cheap rookie contract."

i simply think trading Wheaton is an afterthought. im absolutely against trying to re-sign him. i just see the 2016 season as favorable for us because were essentially getting a pretty helpful #2/#3 for very little money.

i totally agree with the sentiment that Wheaton isnt as good as Sanders. heres a question i pose to people pointing that out: If you think Sanders is so much better than Wheaton (very valid, and i agree), what makes you think you'll get draft picks worth gambling over?

You guys do realize Sanders was signed to a THIRD ROUND tender as a restricted free agent? he had one suitor off of that (the patriots). that puts wheaton's value (according to you guys) where...? tossing him out for some throw away picks isnt the pragmatic move. i say let ben have his playground of weapons and rewrite history.

also, just to hammer away the point about how salty steeler fans get about player departures (even if theyve been nothing but well behaved during their time here), people were absolutely roasting Sanders for even entertaining the idea of signing outside of Pittsburgh, and talking crap about his capabilities as a receiver. Hell, people trash talked him during his coming out year just because AB blew up. That is classless. Lo and behold, Sanders has been a very good receiver after getting a change of scenery, with a worthy pro bowl to his name and another pretty decent season despite having one of the worst QB's throwing him the ball (remember how much it affects our receivers to have a crappy QB throwing to our receivers steeler fans...hmm?)

http://media.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpKRpvezPEjVyAo/giphy.gif

[Cyphon25]

i simply think trading Wheaton is an afterthought. im absolutely against trying to re-sign him. i just see the 2016 season as favorable for us because were essentially getting a pretty helpful #2/#3 for very little money.


See for me it is a matter of them playing Wheaton over better options. I would take DHB or Coates on the field over Wheaton. So it isn’t a matter of if I think he is helpful (because he is) but he is taking snaps from more explosive players.



i totally agree with the sentiment that Wheaton isnt as good as Sanders. heres a question i pose to people pointing that out: If you think Sanders is so much better than Wheaton (very valid, and i agree), what makes you think you'll get draft picks worth gambling over?


You guys do realize Sanders was signed to a THIRD ROUND tender as a restricted free agent? he had one suitor off of that (the patriots). that puts wheaton's value (according to you guys) where...? tossing him out for some throw away picks isnt the pragmatic move. i say let ben have his playground of weapons and rewrite history.


Steelers are missing a 5 and 6 in this draft when we have a lot of needs to fill. So I think if you can get a 4 and 6 or something along those lines for Wheaton you are doing well. It is a convenient time to do it because we are stacked at receiver already. So you have a guy with some value you can use who wouldn’t hurt the team in his absence.

[steelreserve]

You missed the key phraseology here: "If you have a chance to keep intact an offense capable of shattering the all time offenses, you better keep it together. especially when one of the cogs is still on a cheap rookie contract."

i simply think trading Wheaton is an afterthought. im absolutely against trying to re-sign him. i just see the 2016 season as favorable for us because were essentially getting a pretty helpful #2/#3 for very little money.


There's no reason at all to trade him; we wouldn't get anything worth mentioning, and he has some value as long as he's not costing us much. Speaking of missing the key parts ...



I still wouldn't be seeking to actively trade him, though. We can still use him for a year. And if we did trade him, what we'd get is probably not much more than the compensatory pick we'd get by letting him walk next offseason. He'll probably get a contract that's above his weight, so we could get something like a 4th or a 5th anyway. Depending on what else we do in FA, of course.


For the record, I was not one who was too sad to see Sanders go. He was simply offered more than we could afford to pay him, and at that point he was still merely decent. Then when he moved from the #3 option in our offense to the #1 target in not just a pass-happy but a pass-apeshit offense, his numbers went up, as you'd expect. In hindsight, maybe we'd have done better to take the third-round pick, but then he'd be on the Patriots so ... nah.

[Rotorhead]

I am glad we were able to sign DHB for what is most likely the rest of his football career. He seems to be a good team player and a hard worker who is willing to do what is needed to win games (ST's work comes to mind). I am sure he also wants that ring and we all know this is going to be his best chance!

Why would we trade anyone on the offense right now . . . we currently have a SB caliber offense with a lot of depth. Our SB window is next season before there are a bunch of FA ?'s. Let Wheaton stay and if he gets passed up by Coates or DHB so be it, he will be at least a top level backup if someone gets injured. If we play our cards right in the draft and in FA, we are 1-2 def pieces away from a good def.

Also, if you recall, Ben was injured for a good number of games and a lot of players could have had a much better season last year. The fact that he was able to step up his game when AB was shut down speaks to the depth we need in this league to be a dominant offense.

[Mojouw]

Whoa. I think we all need to slow our roll here. Is Wheaton as good as Manny Sanders? It is possible, even likely, but not proven. Is Wheaton better than DHB? Yes. Without a doubt. Is Wheaton better than Coates? Yes. If for no other reason than the fact that he knows the whole route tree, something that Coates and the Steelers have admitted he is still learning.

Will it be a tragedy when Wheaton leaves (because he will get signed for more money somewhere else)? No. Will he go somewhere else and put up better numbers than he did here? Almost certainly.

But to argue that he is a "worse" WR than DHB and Coates and THEN state that he should be traded doesn't make any sense. As PhsycoWard86 pointed out, that puts his value somewhere south of a 4th round pick on the market. Keeping the band together for one more ride is worth more than a 4-7th round pick, especially with Miller retiring. Likely that Wheaton is ticketed for a larger role working the middle of the field no that Ol' Reliable hung up the cleats.

Don't forget that the way this offense runs now, if we assume Wheaton is going to leave and Bryant is one more bong rip away from a big-time ban, a WR needs to be drafted in the 3rd-4th round this year.

[Psycho Ward 86]

See for me it is a matter of them playing Wheaton over better options. I would take DHB or Coates on the field over Wheaton. So it isn’t a matter of if I think he is helpful (because he is) but he is taking snaps from more explosive players.





Steelers are missing a 5 and 6 in this draft when we have a lot of needs to fill. So I think if you can get a 4 and 6 or something along those lines for Wheaton you are doing well. It is a convenient time to do it because we are stacked at receiver already. So you have a guy with some value you can use who wouldn’t hurt the team in his absence.

DHB? crazy talk, pray tell, what is he better at? a slot receiver beat his YPC by 2 yards despite the fact that DHB was used heavily on deep patterns. Coates is looking good for what little we've seen of him. Hell, he probably should have had a 100 yard game, and could have had a TD on his 1st catch against the broncos if he bothered to cut back inside. That being said, he's still unproven and has 3 receptions to his name.

Lets say we trade Wheaton. Lets say we get a 4th and a 6th round pick for him like you've suggested. What do you think are the chances that:

1) The picks are successful
2) The picks are successful NOW (Time's ticking for Ben, his health certainly shouldnt be taken for granted given that despite being put on the lowest sack rates of his career under Haley, he has missed some of the biggest stretches of games as well)
3) The value of the people we draft with the picks outweighs the value of Wheaton

i dont like those odds. if you do, i have some bad news for you. come draft time, people talk about draft picks as if were going to hit on all of them, even the low ones. like wtf, do you guys pay attention to the percentage of guys that actually pan out, especially the lower round picks?

4th and 6th round picks since 2001 (cant remember exactly when Colbert got here):


2001: Danny Farmer, Chris Combs, Jason Gavadza
2002: Mathias Nkwenti, Rodney Bailey, Roger Knight
2003: Larry Foote, Lee Mays
2004: Ike Taylor
2005: Bo Lacy, Matt Kranchick, Drew Caylor
2006: Fred Gibson, Chris Kemouatu
2007: Willie Colon, Orien Harris, Marvin Phillips
2008: Daniel Sepulveda, Ryan McBean
2009: Tony Hills, Mike Humpal, Ryan Mundy
2010: Rashon Harris
2011: Thaddeus Gibson, Johnathan Dwyer, Antonio Brown
2012: Cortez Allen, Keith Williams
2013: Alameda Taamu
2014: Shamarko Thomas, Landry Jones, Justin Brown, Vince Williams
2015: Martavis Bryant, Jordan Zumwalt, Daniel McCullers
2016: Doran Grant, LT Walton, Anthony Chickillo


you like those odds? i certainly dont

[Cyphon25]

DHB? crazy talk, pray tell, what is he better at? a slot receiver beat his YPC by 2 yards despite the fact that DHB was used heavily on deep patterns.


Better at getting open apparently. As I pointed out, he had more 4+ reception games on the season than Wheaton despite Wheaton having significantly more opportunity.


He also had 0 drops while Wheaton had 2. So his hands were more reliable on the season although to be perfectly sure we would have to look at what they count as a drop and what they don’t count as a drop.



Lets say we trade Wheaton. Lets say we get a 4th and a 6th round pick for him like you've suggested. What do you think are the chances that:


1) The picks are successful
2) The picks are successful NOW (Time's ticking for Ben, his health certainly shouldnt be taken for granted given that despite being put on the lowest sack rates of his career under Haley, he has missed some of the biggest stretches of games as well)
3) The value of the people we draft with the picks outweighs the value of Wheaton


you like those odds? i certainly dont


Firstly, I am not looking at it as odds. As I pointed out, I don’t think you lose anything by moving on from Wheaton so I am looking at it as risk vs reward. You risk nothing by moving Wheaton and have the potential (even if the odds aren’t great as you point out) to make a gain or big gain.


Secondly, I do agree on Bens window which is why I think we need to invest in players smartly. Wheaton is adding nothing and I can see the offense improving with DHB or Coates getting more snaps. So by virtue of moving on from Wheaton, you are taking more advantage of said window.

[teegre]

Why change up the offense?

Why add a new WR with whom BB doesn't have a rapport?

Why?????

Go with Wheaton. Win a champisonship. Watch him leave. Next WR up!!!

[Cyphon25]

Why change up the offense?

Why add a new WR with whom BB doesn't have a rapport?

Why?????

Go with Wheaton. Win a champisonship. Watch him leave. Next WR up!!!

DHB already has rapport with Ben as does Coates to a smaller degree. Really the only one who wouldn't is Eli Rodgers as our 5th if that is who ended up getting the spot. As for why change it, to make it better of course.

[86WARD]

Meh. Could take him or leave him. He's definitely been better with Pittsburgh than he has been with the rest of his career.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Better at getting open apparently. As I pointed out, he had more 4+ reception games on the season than Wheaton despite Wheaton having significantly more opportunity.


He also had 0 drops while Wheaton had 2. So his hands were more reliable on the season although to be perfectly sure we would have to look at what they count as a drop and what they don’t count as a drop.





Firstly, I am not looking at it as odds. As I pointed out, I don’t think you lose anything by moving on from Wheaton so I am looking at it as risk vs reward. You risk nothing by moving Wheaton and have the potential (even if the odds aren’t great as you point out) to make a gain or big gain.


Secondly, I do agree on Bens window which is why I think we need to invest in players smartly. Wheaton is adding nothing and I can see the offense improving with DHB or Coates getting more snaps. So by virtue of moving on from Wheaton, you are taking more advantage of said window.


better at getting open "apparently." Apparently not because Wheaton has a higher receptions per target rate than DHB. And thats in addition to averaging 2 more yards per catch as more of a slot receiver vs. a dude who was a designated deep threat.

really? you want to have a discussion on who has better hands? DHB vs. anybody is not looking good. Wheaton actually makes some pretty acrobatic catches that he doesnt get much credit for. patriots, colts, seahawks games are a few off the top of my head that highlight those.

You SHOULD be looking at the odds. you lose a player with 44 receptions, 749 yards, and 5 TD's in the past season thats still young and on the upswing. You say that you take Ben's window of opportunity seriously but apparently you take it for granted. Because if you're tossing a good rental player for some low draft picks with a low percentage chance of panning out (and even if they do pan out, how long will it be until they do?), youre certainly ignoring variables that exist in this hypothetical situation. that vital variable being time.

If you think those yards and receptions can come from anywhere, i have bad news for you. AB is the best in the league, but even he cant catch 130+ balls a season. That means Bryant needs to pick up the slack and get rid of the inconsistent hands, which he hasnt shown yet. That means Coates might have to catch 40+ balls and we just dont know yet. Heath was pretty much an assured 60-70 receptions a season and we need to make up the difference there too. We'll be explosive no matter what, but that doesnt mean Wheaton didnt make a difference


Let Ben be unstoppable.

[Mojouw]

better at getting open "apparently." Apparently not because Wheaton has a higher receptions per target rate than DHB. And thats in addition to averaging 2 more yards per catch as more of a slot receiver vs. a dude who was a designated deep threat.

really? you want to have a discussion on who has better hands? DHB vs. anybody is not looking good. Wheaton actually makes some pretty acrobatic catches that he doesnt get much credit for. patriots, colts, seahawks games are a few off the top of my head that highlight those.

You SHOULD be looking at the odds. you lose a player with 44 receptions, 749 yards, and 5 TD's in the past season thats still young and on the upswing. You say that you take Ben's window of opportunity seriously but apparently you take it for granted. Because if you're tossing a good rental player for some low draft picks with a low percentage chance of panning out (and even if they do pan out, how long will it be until they do?), youre certainly ignoring variables that exist in this hypothetical situation. that vital variable being time.

If you think those yards and receptions can come from anywhere, i have bad news for you. AB is the best in the league, but even he cant catch 130+ balls a season. That means Bryant needs to pick up the slack and get rid of the inconsistent hands, which he hasnt shown yet. That means Coates might have to catch 40+ balls and we just dont know yet. Heath was pretty much an assured 60-70 receptions a season and we need to make up the difference there too. We'll be explosive no matter what, but that doesnt mean Wheaton didnt make a difference


Let Ben be unstoppable.

Amen.

But I have to ask, does he get paid to jump?

[Cyphon25]

better at getting open "apparently." Apparently not because Wheaton has a higher receptions per target rate than DHB. And thats in addition to averaging 2 more yards per catch as more of a slot receiver vs. a dude who was a designated deep threat.


Receptions per target is not something we can judge without looking at it play by play. Did Wheaton have more because there were good throws or was he making Ben look good? Was DHB overthrown? So we would need some context.


On the other hand, we know DHB had more 4+ reception games which is easy to figure out. He was more productive when given the opportunity.


The 2 yards per reception is your only reasonable points in this and even that could have more to do with how limited DHB was in the offense. Give him the same amount of snaps and who knows the numbers he puts up.



really? you want to have a discussion on who has better hands? DHB vs. anybody is not looking good.


No, I don’t want to have the discussion. I posted the stats so there is really no discussion to be had. 2 drops for Wheaton, none for DHB. Using his reputation over stats isn’t going to work.


But I will add the same caveat I added earlier. To be 100% sure we would have to go back and look and see what they called a drop and what they didn’t.



You SHOULD be looking at the odds. you lose a player with 44 receptions, 749 yards, and 5 TD's in the past season thats still young and on the upswing. You say that you take Ben's window of opportunity seriously but apparently you take it for granted. Because if you're tossing a good rental player for some low draft picks with a low percentage chance of panning out (and even if they do pan out, how long will it be until they do?), youre certainly ignoring variables that exist in this hypothetical situation. that vital variable being time.


1. Wheaton being on the upswing is a bit of an exaggeration. He is pretty much at his ceiling with this team. In fact, he had less receptions this year than last year. He did have about 100 more yards though. Like I said, most of the season he was a ghost.


5 games this season with only 1 reception and 4 games with 2 receptions. Half the games of the season with those numbers and you want to try and convince me he is a significant contributor? I think you are bit blinding by black and gold on this one…..


2. You are just wrong. I am not tossing him for just low percentage draft picks. With him out of the offense it is addition by subtraction because more playing time for better options in DHB and Coates. So not only do you get a draft pick or 2, but you also improve the offense.



If you think those yards and receptions can come from anywhere, i have bad news for you. AB is the best in the league, but even he cant catch 130+ balls a season.


110, 129, 136. So yeah, he can be right in that range of 130 a season.



That means Bryant needs to pick up the slack and get rid of the inconsistent hands, which he hasnt shown yet.


Bryant missed how many games and still had as good a season as Wheaton? Yes, he has had some drops but he more than makes up for it for the amount of explosive plays he provides and his game changing ability.


You also have to account for what he does to defenses. Nobody is game planning for Markus Wheaton but they damn sure don’t want Bryant taking the top off of them.



That means Coates might have to catch 40+ balls and we just dont know yet.


But we do know DHB is capable of it. He had 21 this season in very limited playing time. Put him in full time and you can extrapolate anywhere from 40-60 within reason. I did the numbers before but can’t remember exactly what they came out to. I do know they were almost identical to Wheatons though.


So again, Wheaton goes and production either stays the same or goes up. No risk, all reward.



Let Ben be unstoppable.


I am talking about making him more unstoppable.


There just really isn’t much here in support of Wheaton. He is a solid player on our offense who is easily replaced. Nothing against the guy but he is what is. I don’t say that because I don’t like him, but because it is a fact. Same as if I say James Harrison is old.

[BlackAndGold]

DHB has shown to be a solid WR who still has the speed to take the top off of a defense, while helping on ST's and being a great locker room guy. It's an A+ signing for me.

With Wheaton bound to leave after next season it's good to have guys around who Ben trust.

AB, Bryant, Wheaton, Coates, DHB is one heck of a WR core. 2nd year players like Eli Rogers & Shakim Phillips could make the position even deeper.