Steelers-by-position: CBs

[hawaiiansteeler]

Steelers-by-position: CBs

Bob Labriola
Steelers.com

http://www.steelers.com/assets/images/imported/PIT/photos/2015-Photos/2015_Article/08_August/Blake_82615_Article_1.jpg

Another in a position-by-position series in advance of the start of free agency on March 9:

CORNERBACKS – (8)

(Free Agent Scorecard: 3 unrestricted – Antwon Blake, Brandon Boykin, Will Gay)

CORTEZ ALLEN
Once upon a time, Allen was seen as a big part of the team’s future in the defensive backfield, but as of today that time seems to have passed. Confidence and a short memory are said to be two qualifications found in every quality starting NFL cornerback, and somewhere along the line Allen appears to have lost those. Allen does possess a lot of the must-have physical requirements, but the $5.75 million salary cap hit in 2016 shines a stark light on his lack of production. Today, it looks like an unrealistic leap of faith to expect/hope Allen will turn it around and become the player the Steelers hoped when signing him to his contract extension in 2014.

BRANDON BOYKIN
As irrational as Steelers fans can be about disliking a particular player – since this is about cornerbacks, Will Gay immediately comes to mind – they showed an irrational love for Boykin, acquired in an Aug. 1 trade with the Philadelphia Eagles in exchange for a fifth-round draft pick. There was nothing ever about Boykin that made him a bad teammate, but he just never impressed the coaching staff that he was better than the role he ended up filling. The Steelers didn’t believe he could be an outside cornerback in their defense, and he wasn’t as good as Will Gay in the slot when it came to the combination of coverage/tackling skills they were looking for in the middle of the field. And exacerbating the issue is that Senquez Golson – the player the Steelers had tabbed for the role of slot cornerback – will be back for 2016, and Boykin can become an unrestricted free agent on March 9.

ANTWON BLAKE
This is a situation where a player just isn’t capable of being what the team has assigned him to be. Blake is a tough player, a guy who can line up at cornerback and also is a core special teams player. But he isn’t a starting cornerback for a team looking to contend for a championship. It’s not Blake’s fault that the Steelers had no real better options last season, and it isn’t fair for him to bear all of the criticism for the way things turned out. Regardless of the venom directed at him by a segment of the fan base, Blake is a guy the Steelers should be interested in bringing back. But that interest should be commensurate with the role he’s capable of filling. If fans thought of Blake as a modern-day version of Chidi Iwuoma, their perspective of him would be closer to the reality. For the Steelers, though, they have to understand they have to do better in 2016 than having Blake start at cornerback.

ROSS COCKRELL
If the trade for Boykin is destined to go down as a failure, the pickup of Cockrell was a success. Waived by the Buffalo Bills, Cockrell was signed by the Steelers on Sept. 5 partly because the team had an interest in him when he was entering the draft following his college career at Duke. At 6-feet, 191 pounds, Cockrell has nice size, and in 15 regular season games he finished with two interceptions, 11 passes defensed, one forced fumble, and one fumble recovery. Ending the season as a potential exclusive rights free agent, Cockrell already has signed for 2016. A good addition, and a player who will only be 25 in August.

ISAIAH FREY
A sixth-round pick of the Bears in 2012 from Nevada, Frey, 6-0, 190, has played in 16 NFL games over three seasons with Chicago and Tampa Bay. Signed to the Steelers’ practice squad on Oct. 27 in the wake of Cortez Allen being placed on injured reserve, Frey is in the mix.

WILLIAM GAY
This is one of those situations where the sides are better off staying together, and both sides have first-hand knowledge of that. He celebrated his 31st birthday on New Year’s Day, and because Gay already has completed 10 NFL seasons he is coming up on the twilight of his NFL career. His 2015 season ended with two interceptions, one of which came in a December game in Cincinnati that turned into an NFL record fifth straight pick-six. Following the 2011 season, Gay left the Steelers as an unrestricted free agent to sign with Arizona, but after one year in the desert he was back in Pittsburgh for the 2013 season. Gay certainly seems to be someone worth bringing back, because the Steelers only can expect to turn over so much of their secondary at a time, and because he remains one of the better and more versatile players at his position.

SENQUEZ GOLSON
There are high hopes for Golson within the Steelers offices, and because he was a second-round draft pick there are high expectations for him outside the walls of the UPMC Rooney Sports Complex. Golson injured his shoulder during the offseason program and opened training camp on the physically unable to perform list, but he was kept around through the initial phase of camp before he had surgery, because Coach Mike Tomlin wanted to expose him to the day-to-day process the Steelers go through in the team-building phase of the year. After going on the injured reserve list on Aug. 31, Golson was around the team throughout the 2015 season as well. Had Golson been healthy for camp, the trade for Brandon Boykin never would have been made.

DORAN GRANT
Another defensive back drafted by the Steelers last April, Grant was waived the day after the Steelers signed Cockrell, but he was signed to the practice squad two days after that. There has been talk all the way back to the time he was drafted that Grant’s best NFL position possibly could be safety, but that should be allowed to develop over the offseason as the Steelers navigate free agency and the draft. Wherever he lines up, though, Grant will be expected to be a contributor in 2016, his second NFL season.

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Steelers-by-position-CBs/220351b5-5c6c-48df-9e29-4f3181796b1e

[Cyphon25]

Not a huge Labriola fan as he is a really big Steelers yes man at times and it shines through at times in this article. Some things I didn't like:

1. He calls fans irrational in not liking Gay and liking Boykin. There was nothing irrational about the fans not liking Willie Gay during his first stint with us. He wasn't a good corner and he didn't do any better in Arizona. Only in his 2nd stint with the Steelers didn't he become a guy fans could appreciate both on and off the field. On the Boykin side of things again, most of what we saw from fans was rational. They were pining for Boykin certainly, but I didn't see fans saying he was going to be the next Rod Woodson.

2. I might be too hard on him on this point because I can't tell if he is saying the Steelers thought this or he thinks this but he said Boykin wasn't as good as Gay in the slot. In my opinion he was arguably better than Gay when it came to both coverage and tackling. Even if you don't want to go as far as better he was at least as good.

3. "It's not Blakes fault the Steelers had no better options last season". He is right about that, but here is where his being a yes man comes out and is annoying. The Steelers did have better options and that was proven. The better option was moving Gay outside and benching Blake while letting Boykin play in the slot. This is the part of the article where he should be pointing out how badly the coaching staff screwed up but of course you won't see him do it.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Boykin allowed a 60 something QB rating for the season. how is that an irrational liking towards a player? Yeesh. I think we can all agree by now that not playing Boykin was indefensible. Especially once Blake started playing with his stump arm and led the league in missed tackles as a fucking CORNERBACK of all players

[steelcityboyz]

As a coach aren't you supposed to put your best players on the field to give the team the best chance to win games? By playing Blake instead of Boykin the coaches failed miserably.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Boykin allowed a 60 something QB rating for the season. how is that an irrational liking towards a player? Yeesh. I think we can all agree by now that not playing Boykin was indefensible. Especially once Blake started playing with his stump arm and led the league in missed tackles as a fucking CORNERBACK of all players

The local beat writers are full of shit. They keep making shit up to try to take all blame away from the Steeler coaches. It's pathetic.

[Craic]

Boykin allowed a 60 something QB rating for the season. how is that an irrational liking towards a player? Yeesh. I think we can all agree by now that not playing Boykin was indefensible. Especially once Blake started playing with his stump arm and led the league in missed tackles as a fucking CORNERBACK of all players

I find this absolutely hilarious. Let's back up for a second. A number of reports came out that state Boykin couldn't find his head from his ass when he first came to the Steelers, concerning his positioning and responsibility on the field in the Steelers defense. Had he been played earlier, that means he would have given up a ton more passes and touchdowns. So, the coaching staff kept him off the field until he learned the defense. Once he learned it, he got on the field and played well. In other words, the coaches did their job.

[Cyphon25]

I find this absolutely hilarious. Let's back up for a second. A number of reports came out that state Boykin couldn't find his head from his ass when he first came to the Steelers, concerning his positioning and responsibility on the field in the Steelers defense. Had he been played earlier, that means he would have given up a ton more passes and touchdowns. So, the coaching staff kept him off the field until he learned the defense. Once he learned it, he got on the field and played well. In other words, the coaches did their job.

Can you link the reports? I keep up with a lot of Steelers news and never saw anything like it so I am kind of curious who was reporting it and when.

[Mojouw]

Can you link the reports? I keep up with a lot of Steelers news and never saw anything like it so I am kind of curious who was reporting it and when.

I'll back Craic up on this one. There were multiple local reports, blog reportings, and even a few national posts that Boykin was bad "above the neck". I even remember a published interview were Boykin rather passively aggressively said as much. The comments from Steelers coaches and staff were pretty gentle, but they basically said he was kinda stupid in meetings, practice, etc about the playbook and his role in the defense. They simply were not letting him on the field until he overcame his case of the stupids. It appears that about 9-10 weeks into the season that happened and Boykin slowly got integrated into the defense.

While I think that Boykin was one of the better DBs on the roster last season, I also am very willing to believe that he was one of the dumbest - the title of dumbest being reserved for Shamarko Thomas. Which stinks because Thomas has the athletic ability to be the solution to part of the safety situation, but he is simply too damn dumb to be allowed in the field consistently. Point being, the Steelers have long demonstrated an organizational philosophy that they don't do stupid. Harrison got cut and then didn't see the field because of being combative and stubborn about coaching, Bryant didn't play for half his rookie year for being too dumb to learn all the routes quickly. The list could go on.

Why does everyone have such a hard time believing it in this case? Why are we all so quick to jump to to some multiple coach conspiracy to elevate Blake?

[Cyphon25]

I'll back Craic up on this one. There were multiple local reports, blog reportings, and even a few national posts that Boykin was bad "above the neck". I even remember a published interview were Boykin rather passively aggressively said as much. The comments from Steelers coaches and staff were pretty gentle, but they basically said he was kinda stupid in meetings, practice, etc about the playbook and his role in the defense. They simply were not letting him on the field until he overcame his case of the stupids. It appears that about 9-10 weeks into the season that happened and Boykin slowly got integrated into the defense.

While I think that Boykin was one of the better DBs on the roster last season, I also am very willing to believe that he was one of the dumbest - the title of dumbest being reserved for Shamarko Thomas. Which stinks because Thomas has the athletic ability to be the solution to part of the safety situation, but he is simply too damn dumb to be allowed in the field consistently. Point being, the Steelers have long demonstrated an organizational philosophy that they don't do stupid. Harrison got cut and then didn't see the field because of being combative and stubborn about coaching, Bryant didn't play for half his rookie year for being too dumb to learn all the routes quickly. The list could go on.

Why does everyone have such a hard time believing it in this case? Why are we all so quick to jump to to some multiple coach conspiracy to elevate Blake?

I don't have a hard time believing it, I just never heard or saw any such thing which is odd given the vehemence of the fans in regards to him not playing. I am especially surprised Steelersdepot never saw and reported anything like that given how on top of stuff they usually are. And you have David Todd who also does his ESPN show and has Mark Kaboly on every week and I don't think he ever mentioned it either. That goes for Gerry Dulac as well. Of course I didn't hear every time he was on there so maybe I missed it.

If it is true, there is a lot to forgive about the personnel decision, but I still wouldn't fully let them off the hook. I would rather have a guy who might be out of position because he isn't fully up to snuff than I would a guy who knows what he is doing and still gets beat 5 times a game. At least with the guy who doesn't know what they are doing you still have hope.

[Mojouw]

I don't have a hard time believing it, I just never heard or saw any such thing which is odd given the vehemence of the fans in regards to him not playing. I am especially surprised Steelersdepot never saw and reported anything like that given how on top of stuff they usually are. And you have David Todd who also does his ESPN show and has Mark Kaboly on every week and I don't think he ever mentioned it either. That goes for Gerry Dulac as well. Of course I didn't hear every time he was on there so maybe I missed it.

If it is true, there is a lot to forgive about the personnel decision, but I still wouldn't fully let them off the hook. I would rather have a guy who might be out of position because he isn't fully up to snuff than I would a guy who knows what he is doing and still gets beat 5 times a game. At least with the guy who doesn't know what they are doing you still have hope.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/02/playing-time-not-limited-brandon-boykin-inserted-lineup/ - 3rd paragraph states the team was not convinced he could execute properly.
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/12/mike-tomlin-brandon-boykin-week-14-bengals-steelers/ - Tomlin states Boykin had to earn his chance

[Cyphon25]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/02/playing-time-not-limited-brandon-boykin-inserted-lineup/ - 3rd paragraph states the team was not convinced he could execute properly.
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/12/mike-tomlin-brandon-boykin-week-14-bengals-steelers/ - Tomlin states Boykin had to earn his chance

Neither of these 2 examples come close to what you were saying though. You said it was essentially stated that Boykin was dumb and couldn't learn the defense. There is nothing like that in either of these.

More specifically, in the 2nd one Tomlin says straight up that it isn't about what Boykin did or didn't do. So it just supports the notion that the coaches are terrible at evaluating DB talent because they were happy with how Blake played despite him being one of the worst CB's in football.

Just to touch on the first article I do remember them talking about liking how Blake played physical against the run and implying or straight up saying they trusted him more than Boykin in that regard so I assume that is what the first article is talking about. Again, nothing to do with him picking up the defense and even that playing the run thing was proven completely false once we saw Boykin actually play. He was a sure tackler and stuck his nose in every time. Meanwhile Blake lead the team (and I think the league) in missed tackles.

[Mojouw]

Neither of these 2 examples come close to what you were saying though. You said it was essentially stated that Boykin was dumb and couldn't learn the defense. There is nothing like that in either of these.

More specifically, in the 2nd one Tomlin says straight up that it isn't about what Boykin did or didn't do. So it just supports the notion that the coaches are terrible at evaluating DB talent because they were happy with how Blake played despite him being one of the worst CB's in football.

Just to touch on the first article I do remember them talking about liking how Blake played physical against the run and implying or straight up saying they trusted him more than Boykin in that regard so I assume that is what the first article is talking about. Again, nothing to do with him picking up the defense and even that playing the run thing was proven completely false once we saw Boykin actually play. He was a sure tackler and stuck his nose in every time. Meanwhile Blake lead the team (and I think the league) in missed tackles.

C'mon. We all know what fails to execute or doesnt stay disciplined or forgets assignments means. It is code for stupid.

[Cyphon25]

C'mon. We all know what fails to execute or doesnt stay disciplined or forgets assignments means. It is code for stupid.

Doesn't stay disciplined does mean that, but those articles didn't say that did they?

Fails to execute means dropping balls, missing tackles, throwing incompletions etc...Don't see where that is code for stupid. Heck, if anyone failed to execute it was Blake and he did it on Sundays when it mattered, not in practice.

[Mojouw]

Doesn't stay disciplined does mean that, but those articles didn't say that did they?

Fails to execute means dropping balls, missing tackles, throwing incompletions etc...Don't see where that is code for stupid. Heck, if anyone failed to execute it was Blake and he did it on Sundays when it mattered, not in practice.

Fine. It was a giant conspiracy involving Tomlin, Lake, and Butler to ensure that their pet project (Blake) saw the field over the more talented player (Boykin). Because that makes sense. Do you honestly believe that Lake has no ambition to climb the NFL coaching ranks? He is just going to let Blake get burnt week in and week out and NOT play Boykin because Tomlin said so? He wouldn't leak something to the press? That happens all the time in the NFL. Assistants and coordinators leak things to cover their asses all the time.

Take a tour through the Google machine. For the 1st half of the season the Steelers coaches, to a man, talked about Boykin as a player that had very little confidence in letting on the field on Sundays. There may be many reasons for this. My theory since day one has been that Boykin was/is cocky and kinda dumb.

[Cyphon25]

Fine. It was a giant conspiracy involving Tomlin, Lake, and Butler to ensure that their pet project (Blake) saw the field over the more talented player (Boykin). Because that makes sense. Do you honestly believe that Lake has no ambition to climb the NFL coaching ranks? He is just going to let Blake get burnt week in and week out and NOT play Boykin because Tomlin said so? He wouldn't leak something to the press? That happens all the time in the NFL. Assistants and coordinators leak things to cover their asses all the time.

Take a tour through the Google machine. For the 1st half of the season the Steelers coaches, to a man, talked about Boykin as a player that had very little confidence in letting on the field on Sundays. There may be many reasons for this. My theory since day one has been that Boykin was/is cocky and kinda dumb.

I can't speak for any of those guys and what they want, all I know is what we saw and what is reported to us. You can call it conspiracy or just our coaches being terrible at evaluating DB talent, me personally, I think it is a combo. I think Tomlin does play favorites to an extent and more than that, I don't think any of them are good at evaluating DB's. And as I always point out, what is so bad about the whole thing is Tomlin came up as a DB's coach and still can't figure them out.

I don't feel like fishing through google to find specific articles which is why I asked for links. I don't care enough to do that. Just giving people a chance to prove the points they are making.

[Mojouw]

I can't speak for any of those guys and what they want, all I know is what we saw and what is reported to us. You can call it conspiracy or just our coaches being terrible at evaluating DB talent, me personally, I think it is a combo. I think Tomlin does play favorites to an extent and more than that, I don't think any of them are good at evaluating DB's. And as I always point out, what is so bad about the whole thing is Tomlin came up as a DB's coach and still can't figure them out.

I don't feel like fishing through google to find specific articles which is why I asked for links. I don't care enough to do that. Just giving people a chance to prove the points they are making.

Look, I really don't want to argue. I honestly do not. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue.

I will say this - your position is it is my responsibility to prove my argument. Fair enough. But you're assuming no responsibility for proving your original argument. You have simply assumed a thesis. Mainly that Tomlin, Lake, and Butler are not good at evaluating DB talent. Combined with the concept that they "conspire" to keep more talented players from seeing the field in favor of their pet players. Why do I have to prove my argument/point, but you don't have to prove yours?

Again, I really don't want to start a big internet fight. I have had this argument with others. I am CLEARLY in the minority on the Boykin situation. That is fine, I have no problem with that. Long story short, none of it will likely matter in a few short weeks as Boykin is not long for Pittsburgh.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Yea, Boykin suddenly got stupid when he left Philly and came to Pittsburgh. LMAO! Cockrell was inserted into the lineup as soon as he joined the team while Boykin sat the bench. Boykin was the proven player while Cockrell had just gotten cut after barely playing his first year. Tomlin had liked Cockrell when he was in the draft.

We all know the reason why Boykin wasn't playing. Tomlin prefers bigger CBs and thought that Boykin could only play the slot. Tomlin preferred Gay in the slot.

[Cyphon25]

Look, I really don't want to argue. I honestly do not. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue.

I will say this - your position is it is my responsibility to prove my argument. Fair enough. But you're assuming no responsibility for proving your original argument. You have simply assumed a thesis. Mainly that Tomlin, Lake, and Butler are not good at evaluating DB talent. Combined with the concept that they "conspire" to keep more talented players from seeing the field in favor of their pet players. Why do I have to prove my argument/point, but you don't have to prove yours?

Assuming you are actually a Steelers fan you have seen the proof that they can't evaluate DB's. So I shouldn't need to prove that part. As for the conspiracy you know as well as I do that there is no way to prove that without being inside the organization. And the reason I ask for proof from you as well as Craic is because you guys specifically said that articles existed. So it should be very easy to at least show that much.

And I have no problem with you having a different stance on anything just as long as you can back it up with some evidence. And again, obviously I can't actually prove a conspiracy or anything but the rest of the stuff is out there for anyone who watched this season. Blake was awful and they didn't bench him. Even if we don't talk about Boykin at all there is no excuse for keeping Blake on the field.

[steelcityboyz]

Yea, Boykin suddenly got stupid when he left Philly and came to Pittsburgh. LMAO! Cockrell was inserted into the lineup as soon as he joined the team while Boykin sat the bench. Boykin was the proven player while Cockrell had just gotten cut after barely playing his first year. Tomlin had liked Cockrell when he was in the draft.

We all know the reason why Boykin wasn't playing. Tomlin prefers bigger CBs and thought that Boykin could only play the slot. Tomlin preferred Gay in the slot.
:iagree:

[Mojouw]

Assuming you are actually a Steelers fan you have seen the proof that they can't evaluate DB's. So I shouldn't need to prove that part. As for the conspiracy you know as well as I do that there is no way to prove that without being inside the organization. And the reason I ask for proof from you as well as Craic is because you guys specifically said that articles existed. So it should be very easy to at least show that much.

And I have no problem with you having a different stance on anything just as long as you can back it up with some evidence. And again, obviously I can't actually prove a conspiracy or anything but the rest of the stuff is out there for anyone who watched this season. Blake was awful and they didn't bench him. Even if we don't talk about Boykin at all there is no excuse for keeping Blake on the field.

Ahhh. The old "if your actually a fan" argument. That is a solid line of attack. Here is the Steelers DB draft picks in the last 15 years. http://pfref.com/tiny/bjGTw If they pick a DB in the top 3 rounds, it goes pretty well. Outside of that, it is pretty ugly.

Here is the Seahawks during the same period http://pfref.com/tiny/1EdDi. Prior to Carrol coming in and specifically targeting guys he had recruited out of HS and then had an underated college career - when it came to DBs, they didn't fair much better.

Here is the Pats over the same period http://pfref.com/tiny/9fGGN Not really any better.

What's the point, you may ask? The point is that when the Steelers actually bother to invest a valuable draft resource in a DB, they do fairly well. When they start throwing darts at random tall DBs in the latter 1/3 of the draft, they tend to come out badly. Perhaps it is time they stop their quixotic quest to replicate the Ike Taylor pick. But that is what they seemed obsessed with doing. Getting their #1 CB out of some undervalued player in round 3-5 and filling in around that player with 2nd and 3rd round picks. It has been how they have been trying to build secondaries for over 15 years.

We are left to wonder if it is because they can not evaluate DB talent, or if they simply do NOT value DBs as much as other position groups? It is like the OL for many years. The Steelers can not evaluate o-lineman came the cry from the angry masses. But as soon as they stopped trying to build a line out of 5-7th round picks, suddenly their was an infusion of talent at the position grouping. OF course Munchak had a large impact as well, but the bottom line is that spending multiple round 1 and round 2 picks along the o-line gave Munchak solid talent to work with.

Back to the Blake thing. The "excuse" for keeping Blake on the field was it was felt the alternatives, Boykin, Grant, and Allen were not any better. Now, something changed later in the season and it was felt that Boykin was better and the playing time splits reflected that. We will never know what changed. I choose believe it was something based in logic and evaluation of player performances not only on Sunday but during the work week as well. We will never know.

[Cyphon25]

Ahhh. The old "if your actually a fan" argument. That is a solid line of attack. Here is the Steelers DB draft picks in the last 15 years. http://pfref.com/tiny/bjGTw If they pick a DB in the top 3 rounds, it goes pretty well. Outside of that, it is pretty ugly.

Here is the Seahawks during the same period http://pfref.com/tiny/1EdDi. Prior to Carrol coming in and specifically targeting guys he had recruited out of HS and then had an underated college career - when it came to DBs, they didn't fair much better.

Here is the Pats over the same period http://pfref.com/tiny/9fGGN Not really any better.

What's the point, you may ask? The point is that when the Steelers actually bother to invest a valuable draft resource in a DB, they do fairly well. When they start throwing darts at random tall DBs in the latter 1/3 of the draft, they tend to come out badly. Perhaps it is time they stop their quixotic quest to replicate the Ike Taylor pick. But that is what they seemed obsessed with doing. Getting their #1 CB out of some undervalued player in round 3-5 and filling in around that player with 2nd and 3rd round picks. It has been how they have been trying to build secondaries for over 15 years.

We are left to wonder if it is because they can not evaluate DB talent, or if they simply do NOT value DBs as much as other position groups? It is like the OL for many years. The Steelers can not evaluate o-lineman came the cry from the angry masses. But as soon as they stopped trying to build a line out of 5-7th round picks, suddenly their was an infusion of talent at the position grouping. OF course Munchak had a large impact as well, but the bottom line is that spending multiple round 1 and round 2 picks along the o-line gave Munchak solid talent to work with.

Back to the Blake thing. The "excuse" for keeping Blake on the field was it was felt the alternatives, Boykin, Grant, and Allen were not any better. Now, something changed later in the season and it was felt that Boykin was better and the playing time splits reflected that. We will never know what changed. I choose believe it was something based in logic and evaluation of player performances not only on Sunday but during the work week as well. We will never know.

Tomlin hasn't been here for 15 years, so you would need to narrow the evidence into his and his teams tenure.

Sure, and that is a terrible excuse. They literally had a bottom 3 player at the position. I don't care if they brought in a HS kid, at least there was a chance at improvement. Feelings don't outweigh facts. They felt Blake was the best, but saw he wasn't. So you take a chance. If the other player is terrible you have lost nothing because Blake is terrible.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Back to the Blake thing. The "excuse" for keeping Blake on the field was it was felt the alternatives, Boykin, Grant, and Allen were not any better. Now, something changed later in the season and it was felt that Boykin was better and the playing time splits reflected that. We will never know what changed. I choose believe it was something based in logic and evaluation of player performances not only on Sunday but during the work week as well. We will never know.

“Opportunities and reps have to be earned,” (http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/On-benching-a-fumbler-chippiness/4e331644-372c-49a2-9314-81fcbb64de40) said Tomlin. “Brandon was new to us and we were getting to know him. The train got going and we were having some consistent success with the mix of people we had. Sometimes you just have to bide your time and wait for your opportunity, and it has nothing to do with what you’ve done or what you didn’t do. That’s just football, but it’s also life.”

Anyone watching these games could clearly see that there was no "consistent success" in the secondary.

[Mojouw]

“Opportunities and reps have to be earned,” (http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/On-benching-a-fumbler-chippiness/4e331644-372c-49a2-9314-81fcbb64de40) said Tomlin. “Brandon was new to us and we were getting to know him. The train got going and we were having some consistent success with the mix of people we had. Sometimes you just have to bide your time and wait for your opportunity, and it has nothing to do with what you’ve done or what you didn’t do. That’s just football, but it’s also life.”

Anyone watching these games could clearly see that there was no "consistent success" in the secondary.

This goes back to whether or not each of chooses to take quotes in the media by coaches as anything other than spin and fiction. I have repeatedly stated that Tomlin and others lacked faith in Boykin's ability to do what his role was in the defense due to how he practiced and the mental aspects of the game. Rather than call him out in the media and such, they spun the coach speak cliches they are so fond of.

[Cyphon25]

This goes back to whether or not each of chooses to take quotes in the media by coaches as anything other than spin and fiction. I have repeatedly stated that Tomlin and others lacked faith in Boykin's ability to do what his role was in the defense due to how he practiced and the mental aspects of the game. Rather than call him out in the media and such, they spun the coach speak cliches they are so fond of.

Hold on, didn't you get your info about them not trusting Boykin from the media as well? So why is one trustworthy and one not?

[Mojouw]

Tomlin hasn't been here for 15 years, so you would need to narrow the evidence into his and his teams tenure.

Sure, and that is a terrible excuse. They literally had a bottom 3 player at the position. I don't care if they brought in a HS kid, at least there was a chance at improvement. Feelings don't outweigh facts. They felt Blake was the best, but saw he wasn't. So you take a chance. If the other player is terrible you have lost nothing because Blake is terrible.

The point still holds. The Steelers have demonstrated a pattern of how they build secondaries. In the 2nd and 3rd round they select smaller CBs that typically comprise the 2nd tier of rated players in a given draft class. They like those guys to man the 2nd and 3rd CB spots. They then try to find a tall physical #1 Cb in the 3rd-5th round by selecting a gamble of a player. Lewis and Allen worked out to an extent. All the others did not.

The interesting and important question is whether or not they change their approach? If you look around the league, no franchise is really loading up on starting DBs outside of the first 3 rounds. The Steelers have for years now been trying to get by through not investing very high picks in the secondary. It worked well when they hit on Ike and traded up for Troy. The secondary is the glaring weakness of the team currently. Be interesting to see if they change it up. Remember, in Tomlin's first draft LBer was pretty sketchy and they double dipped.

Bottom line, if the Steelers invest 1st and/or 2nd round pick(s) on DBs combined with Golson in round 2 last year, that is something to judge them on. Missing on dirtballs in the 5th or 7th round? Eh. That would be like saying they can't evaluate TEs.

- - - Updated - - -


Hold on, didn't you get your info about them not trusting Boykin from the media as well? So why is one trustworthy and one not?

Fine. I'm done. This board has had this argument too many times to count. I concede the field. Clearly Tomlin, Lake, and Butler are all worse at evaluating DBs than those of us watching from our couches on Sunday.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Mel Kiper Jr.'s Top 10 cornerbacks and who might be a good fit for the Steelers

By Jeff.Hartman on Mar 6, 2016

https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/AqEIbhY6wAlMFgnBPjr84_q5fiI=/0x301:4472x3282/709x473/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/49008451/usa-today-9028467.0.jpg

The Pittsburgh Steelers are looking for secondary help in the 2016 NFL Draft. ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. released his latest positional rankings, and we take a look at the cornerbacks.

It is almost a certainty the Pittsburgh Steelers will be looking to target a cornerback in the upcoming 2016 NFL Draft, but which player will be available, and a good fit for the black and gold? ESPN's Draft expert Mel Kiper Jr. released his latest positional rankings, and today we will focus on his Top 10 cornerbacks entering the draft.

Mel Kiper Jr.'s Top 10 Cornerbacks:

1. *Jalen Ramsey, Florida St.
2. *Vernon Hargreaves, Florida
3. **Eli Apple, Ohio St.
4. William Jackson III, Houston
5. **Kendall Fuller, Virginia Tech
6. **Mackensie Alexander, Clemson
7. *Artie Burns, Miami (Fla.)
8. KeiVarae Russell, Notre Dame
9. *Zack Sanchez, Oklahoma
10. Eric Murray, Minnesota

The debate will rage regarding whether Ramsey will end up at safety, but while he'll have growing pains at cornerback, he's such a gifted athlete and competitor that I have no worries that he'll be a great player in time. Hargreaves is going to be viewed as the likeliest bet to be a solid rookie. Top riser: easily Jackson.

Looking at the list, there aren't many surprises in the Top 2. Ramsey and Hargreaves have long been considered the cream of the crop in this upcoming group of defensive backs. However, although Kiper points out William Jackson III rising the most in his rankings, it shouldn't be overlooked he has Eli Apple as the third best cornerback prospect.

Apple is considered to be brimming with potential, but his lack of experience has had him being a potential first, or second, round pick when the draft rolls around. Apple certainly helped his case at the NFL Scouting Combine with some tremendous work in the drills he participated in.

It also should be noted where he has Kendall Fuller ranked -- behind Jackson III. This could be largely due to his knee injury which sidelined him for nearly the entire 2015 season, but also with Jackson lighting up the Scouting Combine just last week. With Pro Days still ahead, it seems the trio of Apple, Jackson III and Fuller will be jockeying for position behind Ramsey and Hargreaves.

For fans of the Pittsburgh Steelers, don't be shocked if none of the names on Kiper's Top 5 are selections for the black and gold. The Steelers rarely draft a cornerback in the first round, and with other pressing needs on the defensive side of the ball, there is a chance the team will look at cornerback in the second round, like they did in 2015 drafting Senquez Golson.

If that were the case, which of the bottom 5 prospects would best fit the Steelers and their scheme heading into 2016? Mackensie Alexander has exceptional footwork and athleticism, but lacks some of the size NFL teams are looking for in an outside cornerback. Similar deficiencies could be said for the other prospects at the bottom of Kiper's list, but all could be considered players who the Steelers could target in the early rounds of the draft.

Will the Steelers be able to draft a cornerback who is ready to start immediately if they wait until Day 2 to do so? Probably not, but that doesn't mean the team won't be able to find a player who can contribute in some way, shape or form as a rookie in 2016 to help the Steelers porous 30th ranked pass defense.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2016-nfl-mock-drafts-profiles-video-clips-highlights-steelers-analysis-breakdowns-news/2016/3/6/11160450/mel-kiper-jr-s-top-10-cornerbacks-and-who-might-be-a-good-fit-for-the

[hawaiiansteeler]

Mike Mayock's 2016 NFL Draft position rankings 2.0

By Mike Mayock
NFL Media draft analyst
Published: March 8, 2016

Cornerback

1. Vernon Hargreaves, Florida
2. Eli Apple, Ohio State
3. Artie Burns, Miami (Fla.)
4. William Jackson III, Houston
5. Mackensie Alexander, Clemson

Rise: Hargreaves (2), Apple (4), Burns (NR), Jackson (NR)
Fall: Alexander (3), Cyrus Jones, Alabama (5)
Note: Jalen Ramsey, Florida State (1), moves to safety

Safeties

1. Jalen Ramsey, Florida State
2. Karl Joseph, West Virginia
3. Vonn Bell, Ohio State
4. Miles Killebrew, Southern Utah
5. K.J. Dillon, West Virgina

Rise: Dillon (NR)
Fall: Joseph (1), Bell (2), Darien Thompson, Boise State (3), Jeremy Cash, Duke (5)
Note: Ramsey moves from cornerback

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000642199/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-position-rankings-20

[Dwinsgames]

Assuming you are actually a Steelers fan

Dude you are going to far now..

don't question someones fandom , you think he is a spy or something ?

you think he has been here faking it for 2300+ posts ?

lighten up he said this ... Look, I really don't want to argue. I honestly do not. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue

let it go at that

[Cyphon25]

Dude you are going to far now..

don't question someones fandom , you think he is a spy or something ?

you think he has been here faking it for 2300+ posts ?

lighten up he said this ... Look, I really don't want to argue. I honestly do not. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue

let it go at that

This is your post and you are telling me lighten up? Lmao.

I wasn't even serious. My point was how obvious the situation was, I wasn't actually questioning anyones fanhood.

[BlackAndGold]

Mike Mayock's 2016 NFL Draft position rankings 2.0

By Mike Mayock
NFL Media draft analyst
Published: March 8, 2016

Cornerback

1. Vernon Hargreaves, Florida
2. Eli Apple, Ohio State
3. Artie Burns, Miami (Fla.)
4. William Jackson III, Houston
5. Mackensie Alexander, Clemson

Rise: Hargreaves (2), Apple (4), Burns (NR), Jackson (NR)
Fall: Alexander (3), Cyrus Jones, Alabama (5)
Note: Jalen Ramsey, Florida State (1), moves to safety

Safeties

1. Jalen Ramsey, Florida State
2. Karl Joseph, West Virginia
3. Vonn Bell, Ohio State
4. Miles Killebrew, Southern Utah
5. K.J. Dillon, West Virgina

Rise: Dillon (NR)
Fall: Joseph (1), Bell (2), Darien Thompson, Boise State (3), Jeremy Cash, Duke (5)
Note: Ramsey moves from cornerback

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000642199/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-position-rankings-20

Really like this years safety class. Hoping either Thompson or Neal are there in round 2 :crossed:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Really like this years safety class. Hoping either Thompson or Neal are there in round 2 :crossed:

I would also add Karl Joseph and Vonn Bell to my 2nd round safety wish list...

[BlackAndGold]

I would also add Karl Joseph and Vonn Bell to my 2nd round safety wish list...

Agreed, It's be such a Steelers draft if they drafted both Ohio State's players in Apple & Bell in the first two rounds.

I don't think Joseph will be there though, we can hope.

[hawaiiansteeler]

an interesting 7th round CB prospect from Joey Porter's alma mater who was one of the top performers at the Combine:

Tony Pauline
@TonyPauline

More numbers from Colorado State. Panthers, Steelers, Colts meet with cornerback Deandre Elliott

https://twitter.com/TonyPauline?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp %7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[hawaiiansteeler]

Steelers Met With CB DeAndre Elliott During Colorado State’s Pro Day

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/steelers-met-cb-deandre-elliott-colorado-states-pro-day/

[teegre]

Agreed, It's be such a Steelers draft if they drafted both Ohio State's players in Apple & Bell in the first two rounds.

R1: Apple, CB
R2: Bell, S
R3: Washington, DT/DE
R4: Miller, WR/TE/QB

:wink02:

[tube517]

708342758466035712

Yes! Lebeau or bellicheat** get him!

[hawaiiansteeler]

Free Agent Defensive Back Options Dwindling For Steelers

BY DAVE BRYAN MARCH 18, 2016

With the free agent signing period now entering its second weekend, the list of remaining unsigned players isn’t very appealing when it comes to all of the positions. As far as the Pittsburgh Steelers go, they still have 10 unrestricted free agents who are still looking for work and leading that list is cornerback Brandon Boykin, who the team acquired via a trade with the Philadelphia Eagles during last year’s training camp. Not only is Boykin the Steelers best remaining unrestricted free agent at this time, he’s probably the best defensive back still looking for work league-wide

While most would like to see Boykin return in 2016, that still seems unlikely to happen and especially judging by the comments he made in an interview just prior to the start of free agency. Besides, if Boykin were to be re-signed, one would think that it would have to be for right at or near the league minimum as he wouldn’t likely be a starter in Pittsburgh.

Other than Boykin, Patrick Robinson and Sterling Moore are currently the best remaining free agent cornerbacks as we head into the weekend. While Robinson is starter material, Moore is best-suited for a reserve role. Both are likely worth just a little more than the minimum at this point and they might be interested in two-year contracts with low guaranteed money. The Steelers know both players well as they each were brought in for free agent visits last year at this same time.

As far as free agent safeties go, there really isn’t much left out there at this point and especially when it comes to players who are under the age of 30. In fact, Tony Jefferson is the only intriguing name remaining and he currently is holding a one-year, $1.671 million restricted tender that he received from the Arizona Cardinals. Any offer sheet given to Jefferson by the Steelers would have to be lucrative enough that the Cardinals wouldn’t want to match it. In other words, likely over his market value, so you can almost completely rule Jefferson out as an option.

At this point, the Steelers might be done when it comes to signing free agents unless they can get one or two at the league minimum with decreased salary cap charges on a veteran benefit qualifying contract. After June 1, they might look around to see if any players have been cut, but once again, they will be looking to only spend the minimum.

to read rest of article:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/defensive-back-free-agency-options-dwindling-steelers/

[hawaiiansteeler]

James C Wexell ‏@jimwexell

I'm really geeked about a Steelers 1-2 draft punch of Billings and Joseph. The cornerback crowd would be apoplectic!

https://twitter.com/jimwexell?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7 Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[Shoes]

James C Wexell ‏@jimwexell

I'm really geeked about a Steelers 1-2 draft punch of Billings and Joseph. The cornerback crowd would be apoplectic!

https://twitter.com/jimwexell?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7 Ctwgr%5Eauthor

I'd be fine with that!

[teegre]

I'd be fine with that!

Me, too.

Those two picks alone would make it an A+ draft (although, I doubt that Joseph lasts until 58).

[Cyphon25]

I'd be happy with Billings and Joseph. I'd be more happy with Alexander and Joseph.

[steelerkitty]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet (https://twitter.com/RapSheet) 11h11 hours ago (https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/711179429058318336) The #Cowboys (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cowboys?src=hash) are hosting FA CB Patrick Robinson tomorrow and Monday, source said.

[Shoes]

Me, too.

Those two picks alone would make it an A+ draft (although, I doubt that Joseph lasts until 58).

Never know, all it takes is a few teams before 25 to shit the bed. :chuckle:

[zulater]

Here's my position on Boykin. I think some players practice better than they play and some play better than they practice. I think Boykin falls into the latter category. I also think Tomlin tends to favor the former too much and can get entrenched to the point that even when actual game play contradicts his established position he turns a blind eye to it. Case in point in a limited number of snaps against the 49ers in week 2 Boykin made a fabulous break up of a Kaepernick pass in the end zone. He didn't see the field again for a defensive snap for a month or so. I realize not all the defenses are the same, but they're not as different as NFL coaches would have you think either. If you can play defensive back more than competently for the Eagles for several seasons there's no reason you couldn't do close to the same for the Steelers You're facing the same caliber of qb and passing game here asyou were there.

I tend to be more positive than negative about Tomlin as most of you know. But I think he mishandled Boykin all last year to the detriment of the defense.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Here's my position on Boykin. I think some players practice better than they play and some play better than they practice. I think Boykin falls into the latter category. I also think Tomlin tends to favor the former too much and can get entrenched to the point that even when actual game play contradicts his established position he turns a blind eye to it. Case in point in a limited number of snaps against the 49ers in week 2 Boykin made a fabulous break up of a Kaepernick pass in the end zone. He didn't see the field again for a defensive snap for a month or so. I realize not all the defenses are the same, but they're not as different as NFL coaches would have you think either. If you can play defensive back more than competently for the Eagles for several seasons there's no reason you couldn't do close to the same for the Steelers You're facing the same caliber of qb and passing game here asyou were there.

I tend to be more positive than negative about Tomlin as most of you know. But I think he mishandled Boykin all last year to the detriment of the defense.

I realize as head coach the buck stops with Tomlin.

however, Butler is the defensive coordinator and Lake is the DB coach, didn't they also have some say and input whether or not to play Boykin?

[zulater]

I realize as head coach the buck stops with Tomlin.

however, Butler is the defensive coordinator and Lake is the DB coach, didn't they also have some say and input whether or not to play Boykin?

True. But I think with LeBeau going Tomlin took a little heavier hand to the defense, and overall the results were good. Sacks and forced turnovers were both way up. Anyway maybe I'm wrong but I just got the sense that Tomlin more than Butler or Lake was the one keeping Boykin off the field. Put it this way. With Butler being in his first season as DC I don't think he was going to override the head coach on something like this. And again I'm saying that practice was probably saying he wasn't getting it to the extent he needed. As stated before; I think there's some players who's best foot never comes forward until actual game action occurs. And once Boyin got on the field in games I think it became fairly evident that he more than belonged.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Steelers notebook: Cornerback Allen 'still part of plan'

Mark Kaboly | Sunday, March 20, 2016

http://triblive.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=uMVUP me4ErqHqms47AOLS8$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYtCtfqjgHXrvVH 0eOBvB3bzWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4 uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

BOCA RATON, Fla. — The Steelers cornerback situation is still murky, at best.

Cortez Allen can clear that up quickly if he is able to rebound from back-to-back disappointing years since signing a $25 million contract the day before the start of the 2014 season.

General manager Kevin Colbert was non-committal about Allen's role for the upcoming season or even if there will be one.

“Well, you know, we're still trying to determine where he is from a health standpoint,” Colbert said. “We'll make judgments accordingly.”

Allen was placed on injured reserve for the second consecutive season and had knee surgery. Allen lost his starting job two seasons in a row before getting injured.

The Steelers could part ways with Allen with a post-June 1 designation release that would save them $4.4 million in cap space, but will seemingly give him one more chance to prove himself during the preseason.

“Well, right now, he's still part of the plan because he's under contract,” Colbert said. “Is he healthy? We're not sure at this point. We'll determine that a little further down the line. He has a little more time to prove his readiness one way or another.”

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/10179921-74/colbert-steelers-free

[Cyphon25]

The only part he should still have is being cut for more cap room to sign some DL depth.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Gerry Dulac ‏@gerrydulac Mar 20

Colbert: "Can’t say we’ll take a cornerback first, second or third. But there are enough that we should be able to get one.”

Kevin Colbert and Mike Tomlin "been tracking" top CBs in draft and attending their pro days. Visit Houston's William Jackson III this week

https://twitter.com/gerrydulac

[Born2Steel]

On NFL Redzone last weekend they showed a play from the SF game. Our DBs got toasted over the middle for a score. Our guy who missed the tackle wore #20, who was that? Who wears #20 for us?

[polamalubeast]

On NFL Redzone last weekend they showed a play from the SF game. Our DBs got toasted over the middle for a score. Our guy who missed the tackle wore #20, who was that? Who wears #20 for us?

Will Allen.....

[Born2Steel]

Well, Will Allen missed what should have been an easy tackle and the WR went for a score.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Really like this years safety class. Hoping either Thompson or Neal are there in round 2 :crossed:

I've seen a couple of mocks that had us selecting Keanu Neal with our 1st round pick and a lot of others that had Neal going to Arizona at 1(29).

as for Thompson, a lot will depend on his 40 time he runs on his Pro Day at the end of this month. if he doesn't improve his Comnine time he should still be available at 2(58) but do we want a safety that runs a 4.70?

[BlackAndGold]

I've seen a couple of mocks that had us selecting Keanu Neal with our 1st round pick and a lot of others that had Neal going to Arizona at 1(29).

as for Thompson, a lot will depend on his 40 time he runs on his Pro Day at the end of this month. if he doesn't improve his Comnine time he should still be available at 2(58) but do we want a safety that runs a 4.70?

I'm a big fan of Neal, not sure he'd be the BPA at #25 though.

Agreed on Thompson. Hopefully he runs in the 4.5's.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Study: What Pittsburgh Looks For In Drafting Cornerbacks

BY ALEX KOZORA MARCH 22, 2016

We are continuing our series on examining the Pittsburgh Steelers’ draft history to try and predict who might meet their measurable and athletic criteria for 2016. We’ve covered receivers and both line groups. Today, we’ll move onto cornerbacks:

to read rest of article:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/study-pittsburgh-looks-drafting-cornerbacks/

[hawaiiansteeler]

I'm a big fan of Neal, not sure he'd be the BPA at #25 though.



Pittsburgh Steelers:

3/22: "I've been told for the past week Keanu Neal is still in the conversation as the first-round pick for the Pittsburgh Steelers, who had defensive back coach Carnell Lake on hand today." - Tony Pauline, WalterFootball.com

http://walterfootball.com/nflrumors/teamdraft/17-31#sj2wXDSlAm2rDE4F.99

[BlackAndGold]

Pittsburgh Steelers:

3/22: "I've been told for the past week Keanu Neal is still in the conversation as the first-round pick for the Pittsburgh Steelers, who had defensive back coach Carnell Lake on hand today." - Tony Pauline, WalterFootball.com

http://walterfootball.com/nflrumors/teamdraft/17-31#sj2wXDSlAm2rDE4F.99

Neal is probably my 2nd favorite prospect behind Billings, So if Billings isn't there I'd be happy if Neal was the pick at #25.

Billings
Neal
Alexander
Jackson III

[steelreserve]

There should be at least one safety available in R2 with a real chance of being an impact player. Not sure if I would take any of those in R1 though. There are so many usual top-15 DL prospects that it'd be hard to argue against one of them. Unless Alexander falls to 25 at CB, but I find that pretty unlikely.

[Psycho Ward 86]

has there been any indication that we like Karl Joseph yet?

[BlackAndGold]

has there been any indication that we like Karl Joseph yet?

Not yet, but I'm sure they know about him(Tomlin is a Virginia native). He's still recovering from his ACL injury, One heck of a talent though,

[teegre]

has there been any indication that we like Karl Joseph yet?

Tomlin has added a Mountaineer in every off-season.

Soooo... it's about time to add a "good" one. :lol:

[hawaiiansteeler]

we just brought him in for one of our 30 official visits:

JONATHAN JONES/CB/AUBURN

5’091″/186 4.33/40 8 3/4″H/30 1/4″A

Remember the old sports adage that “speed kills”. Despite his diminutive size JONES is rising up Draft lists because he has proven that he is probably the fastest CB in this year’s group. He showed well in Mobile at Senior Bowl practices and the game. He’s not afraid to throw himself into the action as evidenced by his 69 tackles during the 2015 season. But clearly his highest value comes from his ability to turn and run with even the fastest of receivers. He is another guy who more than likely has pushed his draft stock into a Friday selection slot.

http://gbnreport.com/pigskin-pauls-page/

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KNSv6eQdmg

[hawaiiansteeler]

Ask Ed: What's going on with Steelers cornerback Cortez Allen?

By Ed Bouchette / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

YOU: I don’t know why I’m fascinated by the Cortez Allen situation. What do you think the Steelers offered him in the revised deal? He has had performance issues but it was my impression he was a solid citizen type. Maybe there is hope he can be productive with us with less pressure and another chance.

ED: I know it’s been reported the Steelers asked him to take a pay cut, but I did not report it (nor did anyone at the PG) so I cannot speak on that. It’s been my experience that the Steelers only ask those players they know will make the team and contribute and have contributed in the past to take pay cuts because once a player of that stature takes one, they almost surely will be on the team that season.

If you look at what has been said about Allen by both Mike Tomlin and Kevin Colbert, it’s hardly been a vote of confidence. Both also have mentioned that they do not know if he is healthy. Wouldn’t you think that if they were counting on him that they would know right now if he is healthy or not? For example, they know Mike Adams is now healthy enough to work out and should be a full participant in their spring drills. Why not Allen? Perhaps Allen is following the same path he did when he was placed on injured reserve after six games (one played) last season – pulled a disappearing act.

He has done little since they gave him that big contract late in the 2014 preseason, a deal they rue to this day. I am on record many times saying I do not believe he will be on the roster when the season kicks off this year and I believe that as strongly as ever.

http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog/2016/03/24/Ask-Ed-What-s-Going-on-with-Steelers-Cortez-Allen.html?utm_campaign=echobox&utm_medium=social&utm_source=Twitter#link_time=1458826322

[hawaiiansteeler]

Report: Brandon Boykin To Visit Panthers

BY ALEX KOZORA MARCH 26, 2016

It surprised many to see the likes of Sean Spence, Antwon Blake, and Terence Garvin sign before Brandon Boykin. But now, Boykin may be close to finding a new home.

ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler reports Boykin has a Monday visit set with the Carolina Panthers.

Boykin’s market has been surprisingly cold, despite being one of the top cornerbacks left on the market for the last week. His only known previous interest came from the Atlanta Falcons, though that spark quickly went out. Boykin could wind up being the team’s slot corner – like he was in Pittsburgh – with Josh Norman and Bene Benwikere on the outside.

Boykin’s time in Pittsburgh, as it has been recounted dozens of time on this site alone, was a curious one to most fans. Traded for a 5th round pick during training camp, Boykin did not see consistent playing time until close to the last month of the season, where he took over as the team’s nickel corner, limiting Ross Cockrell and Antwon Blake’s playing time. He finished his Steelers’ tenure with 21 tackles, an interception, a forced fumble, and a sack.

His market value appears to be less than originally thought and could come in around the $3.5-$4 million range. Patrick Robinson was the last notable corner to sign, joining the Indianapolis Colts, for $4.67 million average yearly value.

Mike Tomlin basically encouraged Boykin to test free agency in their exit meeting and though he reportedly left the door open for a return, those chances were always slim. While Boykin said the right things and did not get publicly upset by his lack of playing time, 2015 had to have been the most frustrating year of his career.

He’s always wanted to be viewed as more than a slot corner though the Eagles, Steelers, and possibly the Panthers have all profiled him as such.

We’ll update if and when he signs on Monday.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/report-brandon-boykin-visit-panthers/

[86WARD]

The secondary isn't going to be good next year...they may not even be average...even if the drafted all DBs in April...

[Born2Steel]

Report: Brandon Boykin To Visit Panthers

BY ALEX KOZORA MARCH 26, 2016

It surprised many to see the likes of Sean Spence, Antwon Blake, and Terence Garvin sign before Brandon Boykin. But now, Boykin may be close to finding a new home.

ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler reports Boykin has a Monday visit set with the Carolina Panthers.

Boykin’s market has been surprisingly cold, despite being one of the top cornerbacks left on the market for the last week. His only known previous interest came from the Atlanta Falcons, though that spark quickly went out. Boykin could wind up being the team’s slot corner – like he was in Pittsburgh – with Josh Norman and Bene Benwikere on the outside.

Boykin’s time in Pittsburgh, as it has been recounted dozens of time on this site alone, was a curious one to most fans. Traded for a 5th round pick during training camp, Boykin did not see consistent playing time until close to the last month of the season, where he took over as the team’s nickel corner, limiting Ross Cockrell and Antwon Blake’s playing time. He finished his Steelers’ tenure with 21 tackles, an interception, a forced fumble, and a sack.

His market value appears to be less than originally thought and could come in around the $3.5-$4 million range. Patrick Robinson was the last notable corner to sign, joining the Indianapolis Colts, for $4.67 million average yearly value.

Mike Tomlin basically encouraged Boykin to test free agency in their exit meeting and though he reportedly left the door open for a return, those chances were always slim. While Boykin said the right things and did not get publicly upset by his lack of playing time, 2015 had to have been the most frustrating year of his career.

He’s always wanted to be viewed as more than a slot corner though the Eagles, Steelers, and possibly the Panthers have all profiled him as such.

We’ll update if and when he signs on Monday.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/report-brandon-boykin-visit-panthers/

Boykin was only brought here when Golson went down. I would like to see him back but not sure if we need him. Looks like it will be Golson on slot, Cockrell and Gay on the outside, mostly, and Frey and Grant playing nickel/backup roles. Hopefully we re-sign Boykin, and/or draft a rookie that can come in quickly. That would give us more options position-wise, plus we are out of depth already.

[Count Steeler]

So, to ensure they play better, they shall be referred to as:

Sen Golson
Wil Gay and
Ros Cockrell.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Boykin was only brought here when Golson went down. I would like to see him back but not sure if we need him. Looks like it will be Golson on slot, Cockrell and Gay on the outside, mostly, and Frey and Grant playing nickel/backup roles. Hopefully we re-sign Boykin, and/or draft a rookie that can come in quickly. That would give us more options position-wise, plus we are out of depth already.

Bra Boykin won't be back...

[Born2Steel]

Bra Boykin won't be back...

I don't think so either. Has he signed anywhere yet?

[polamalubeast]

714487438786166784

[Mojouw]

And it was as the slot corner.

[Born2Steel]

Who have we lost on defense now? It feels like a Browns off season.

[Rotorhead]

Wonder what Boykin did to get shunned, our team was markedly better when he was playing, even without the comfort level everyone else had. What a waste with that trade.

[Dwinsgames]

tossing this in here because it doesn't merit its own thread but deserves to be seen .

this is NOT a photo shop pic its legit ...

look at the hops ... ( 41.5 inch vertical )

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcqJa2tW8AE-hQ7.jpg:large

5'11" -195 - 4.4 speed - 41.5 inch vertical ... SMU Kalen Reed NCAA record 19 PBU in a single season and nobody is talking about him

[Born2Steel]

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2016-nfl-mock-drafts-profiles-video-clips-highlights-steelers-analysis-breakdowns-news/2016/4/5/11349788/comparing-steelers-cb-senquez-golson-to-the-2016-cb-draft-class

[SteelersCanada]

Steelers tried to claim Ifo Ekpre-Olomu off of the wire. The Dolphins got him, but it's interesting they tried to snag him.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Steelers tried to claim Ifo Ekpre-Olomu off of the wire. The Dolphins got him, but it's interesting they tried to snag him.

Three other teams tried to claim Ifo Ekpre-Olomu off waivers

Posted by Darin Gantt on April 6, 2016

For a guy who hasn’t played a down in the NFL, and has yet to show that he’s able to, there was quite a market for Ifo Ekpre-Olomu.

The cornerback, who was waived by the Browns and claimed by the Dolphins Tuesday had plenty of interest.

According to Field Yates of ESPN, the Saints, Bills and Steelers also put in waiver claims for the former seventh-rounder from Oregon.

Ekpre-Olomu suffered a torn ACL in December 2014 and didn’t play last year. But the Browns elected to waive him from the non-football injury list, because they weren’t sure he’d be able to hold up for the year based on what they saw on an MRI. Other teams might view the tests results differently.

He was once considered a top prospect, and if he isn’t well enough to contribute, the Dolphins aren’t out much. And the fact that several other teams were interested suggests that A) they thought so too and B) they’ll be in the market for corners come draft weekend.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/04/06/three-other-teams-tried-to-claim-ifo-ekpre-olomu-off-waivers/

[hawaiiansteeler]

Report: Alabama CB Cyrus Jones To Visit Steelers

BY ALEX KOZORA APRIL 7, 2016

Another pre-draft visitor. Another defensive back. Aaron Wilson is reporting Alabama corner Cyrus Jones is being brought in for a visit this weekend.

That would make Jones the 16th prospect to visit, and the 12th defensive back. Standing under 5’10, 196 pounds, Jones started 34 total games for the Crimson Tide. In his career, he picked off seven passes and forced four fumbles while being an excellent punt returner.

to read rest of article:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/04/report-alabama-cb-cyrus-jones-visit-steelers/

[teegre]

Report: Alabama CB Cyrus Jones To Visit Steelers

BY ALEX KOZORA APRIL 7, 2016

Another pre-draft visitor. Another defensive back. Aaron Wilson is reporting Alabama corner Cyrus Jones is being brought in for a visit this weekend.

That would make Jones the 16th prospect to visit, and the 12th defensive back. Standing under 5’10, 196 pounds, Jones started 34 total games for the Crimson Tide. In his career, he picked off seven passes and forced four fumbles while being an excellent punt returner.

to read rest of article:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/04/report-alabama-cb-cyrus-jones-visit-steelers/

I like this.

He'd be a great value in R3. Helluva player... with limitations. But, like most R3 picks, if those limitations can be fixed/masked/coached, a team can end up with a R1 value.

[Mojouw]

I like this.

He'd be a great value in R3. Helluva player... with limitations. But, like most R3 picks, if those limitations can be fixed/masked/coached, a team can end up with a R1 value.

Well, he certainly would fit in with the rest of the garden gnomes. On a more serious note, didn't Jones play a bit of WR at 'Bama as well? Seems like the "new" skill that the Steelers are willing to "gamble" in CBs is getting their hands on the ball.

I think it is going to be a first round front 7 player, 2nd round back 4, 3rd back 4 or WR.

[teegre]

Well, he certainly would fit in with the rest of the garden gnomes. On a more serious note, didn't Jones play a bit of WR at 'Bama as well? Seems like the "new" skill that the Steelers are willing to "gamble" in CBs is getting their hands on the ball.

I think it is going to be a first round front 7 player, 2nd round back 4, 3rd back 4 or WR.

He is indeed a returner... (not sure if he played receiver).

R1: BPA on defense... including OLB
R2: DL, S, or CB
R3: DL, S, or CB (whichever wasn't targeted in R2)
R4: DL, S, or CB (whichever wasn't targeted in R2 or R3)

[86WARD]

Doesn't matter if he's a returner...totally irrelevant once that skill hits Mike Tomlin's team. Tomlin will NOT use a defensive player to return kicks or punts...no matter how good...that's Tomlin's "policy". See Boykin as an example of this "policy" in action.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Mark Kaboly ‏@MarkKaboly_Trib Apr 16

Did you know Steelers currently have longest span of not drafting a CB in first round compared to every team in NFL?

https://twitter.com/MarkKaboly_Trib?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5E serp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[zulater]

Mark Kaboly ‏@MarkKaboly_Trib Apr 16

Did you know Steelers currently have longest span of not drafting a CB in first round compared to every team in NFL?

https://twitter.com/MarkKaboly_Trib?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5E serp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Yes I'm painfully aware of that, and the last two times they picked a corner in the first round they reached and both were busts. (Deon Figures 93, Chad Scott 97) I suppose you could say we're due to find a good one? :lol:

[Mojouw]

Mark Kaboly ‏@MarkKaboly_Trib Apr 16

Did you know Steelers currently have longest span of not drafting a CB in first round compared to every team in NFL?

https://twitter.com/MarkKaboly_Trib?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5E serp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

They also likely have one of the longest spans of not drafting in the top 6. You know, where all the traditionally crappy teams go to draft those fancy first round corners. Also, Lebeau's defense couldn't have placed less of an emphasis on the CB skills/traits that get you drafted in the first round. But, hey, gotta tweet something out, so why not "facts" with no context?

Did you guys know the Steelers have the longest streak of drafting guys with a vowel in their last name that come from a school with an enrollment of less than 50,000 in the 7th round? IT has been like 100 years. Amazing!

[BlackAndGold]

722424377497661440

722436185390522368


32 1/2 arms also.

Very interesting prospect.

[hawaiiansteeler]

32 1/2 arms also. Very interesting prospect.

Pittsburgh Steelers host cornerback Brandon Williams, who has a familiar background

by Jim Wexell

http://img.scout.com/sites/default/files/2016/04/19/04-19-16bwilliams.jpg?w=620&h=413&fit=max

Like another cornerback the Steelers drafted 13 years ago, Brandon Williams is a former running back with blazing speed. He was one of three visitors Tuesday.

Back in 2003, the Pittsburgh Steelers drafted a 6-foot, 200-pound cornerback out of the deep south who had been a running back before being moved prior to his senior season.

Ike Taylor was a raw fourth-round pick, no doubt, but two years later he intercepted a pass in the Super Bowl, started in two others, and retired following the 2014 season as one of the team's all-time greats.

The Steelers hosted a player with a similar background today as one of their pre-draft visitors.

Brandon Williams (5-11 3/8, 197) was a running back first at Oklahoma, and then Texas A&M, before being moved to cornerback at A&M last season. His 4.37 40 at the NFL Combine gives him the similar size and speed Taylor had coming out, and with the inexperience at his position Williams would require the similar patience that paid off so handsomely with Taylor.

As a running back, Williams was effective -- 867 yards at 4.9 per carry -- but scouts say he lacked vision and instincts.

As a cornerback, Williams broke up seven passes without an interception last season. He did catch 14 passes in two seasons as an A&M running back.

Williams' ceiling suggests a fourth-round grade, but in such a deep crop of corners he could be drafted later.

Also visiting the Steelers on Tuesday were Utah running back Devontae Booker and Michigan safety Jarrod Wilson.

Booker (5-11, 219) is considered one of the top backs in this draft. The Steelers likely brought him in for a medical check because Booker tore meniscus in his left knee late last season and couldn't perform at the combine or his pro day.

Booker, who'll turn 24 on May 27, spent two years at a junior college and another year academically ineligible before piling up 2,773 rushing yards (5.0 avg.) and catching 80 passes in two seasons at Utah.

If healthy, Booker is a second or third-rounder. He has three-down potential and is more of a quick back than a threat to break long runs. He has small hands and fumbled 16 times at Utah.

Wilson (6-1 1/4, 209, 4.55) is a late-round candidate after starting three years for Michigan. He came out of Akron's Buchtel High School and is the nephew of former NFL tight end Dave Young. Wilson has four career interceptions and 169 total tackles.

http://www.scout.com/nfl/steelers/story/1662487-headline-visitor-brandon-williams?preview=true

[Psycho Ward 86]

Pittsburgh Steelers host cornerback Brandon Williams, who has a familiar background

by Jim Wexell

http://img.scout.com/sites/default/files/2016/04/19/04-19-16bwilliams.jpg?w=620&h=413&fit=max

Like another cornerback the Steelers drafted 13 years ago, Brandon Williams is a former running back with blazing speed. He was one of three visitors Tuesday.

Back in 2003, the Pittsburgh Steelers drafted a 6-foot, 200-pound cornerback out of the deep south who had been a running back before being moved prior to his senior season.

Ike Taylor was a raw fourth-round pick, no doubt, but two years later he intercepted a pass in the Super Bowl, started in two others, and retired following the 2014 season as one of the team's all-time greats.

The Steelers hosted a player with a similar background today as one of their pre-draft visitors.

Brandon Williams (5-11 3/8, 197) was a running back first at Oklahoma, and then Texas A&M, before being moved to cornerback at A&M last season. His 4.37 40 at the NFL Combine gives him the similar size and speed Taylor had coming out, and with the inexperience at his position Williams would require the similar patience that paid off so handsomely with Taylor.

As a running back, Williams was effective -- 867 yards at 4.9 per carry -- but scouts say he lacked vision and instincts.

As a cornerback, Williams broke up seven passes without an interception last season. He did catch 14 passes in two seasons as an A&M running back.

Williams' ceiling suggests a fourth-round grade, but in such a deep crop of corners he could be drafted later.

Also visiting the Steelers on Tuesday were Utah running back Devontae Booker and Michigan safety Jarrod Wilson.

Booker (5-11, 219) is considered one of the top backs in this draft. The Steelers likely brought him in for a medical check because Booker tore meniscus in his left knee late last season and couldn't perform at the combine or his pro day.

Booker, who'll turn 24 on May 27, spent two years at a junior college and another year academically ineligible before piling up 2,773 rushing yards (5.0 avg.) and catching 80 passes in two seasons at Utah.

If healthy, Booker is a second or third-rounder. He has three-down potential and is more of a quick back than a threat to break long runs. He has small hands and fumbled 16 times at Utah.

Wilson (6-1 1/4, 209, 4.55) is a late-round candidate after starting three years for Michigan. He came out of Akron's Buchtel High School and is the nephew of former NFL tight end Dave Young. Wilson has four career interceptions and 169 total tackles.

http://www.scout.com/nfl/steelers/story/1662487-headline-visitor-brandon-williams?preview=true

Mid round? Ive heard he's a late round guy who could go undrafted

[Mojouw]

The pattern begins again. Linked to every first 2 round corner draft pundits can name. Then look at who they are bringing in for visits as well.

Tall - check.
Fast - check.
Good Tools but Raw - check.
Can be had in the 4th round or later - check.

Narrow in on the list of guys who have all the above (I call it the Ike Taylor 2.0 list) and you will find yourself at least one of the Steelers picks next week.

Then make a list of late round TE projects and you will find another.

Next make a list of "physical" interior lineman with decent movement skills and you get a 3rd.

Now make a list of mid-round WRs that have at least one elite physical trait (route running, quickness, speed, size/speed, etc) but have questions about competition level, concentration, hands, commitment, or what have you that will push them down about 2-3 rounds in the draft. There is another draft pick.

That exercise gives you 4 out of the 7 picks without even breaking a sweat. The remaining 3 need to account for a D lineman, a LB of some sort, and ????.

I have no idea WHO the Steelers will draft, but it is getting fairly easy to predict WHAT they will draft.

[polamalubeast]

724634194723352576

[Born2Steel]

Exactly! We have capable CBs. Are they the best of the best? NO! But they know their job. Hopefully, this season they can perform it.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Exactly! We have capable CBs. Are they the best of the best? NO! But they know their job. Hopefully, this season they can perform it.

are you sure about that?

Willie Gay is capable but other than him there are only question marks. Cockrell was picked up off the waiver wire and received less and less playing time as the season wore on, Golson is coming off a season-ending injury and never played a down, Grant was cut and only returned after clearing waivers and never played either except for a little bit on special teams and after them we only have Isaiah Frey and Al-Hajj Shabazz...

[SteelerFanInStl]

are you sure about that?

Willie Gay is capable but other than him there are only question marks. Cockrell was picked up off the waiver wire and received less and less playing time as the season wore on, Golson is coming off a season-ending injury and never played a down, Grant was cut and only returned after clearing waivers and never played either except for a little bit on special teams and after them we only have Isaiah Frey and Al-Hajj Shabazz...
I agree. I'm not at all comfortable with the guys that we have at CB outside of Gay. They are all question marks.

[Born2Steel]

are you sure about that?

Willie Gay is capable but other than him there are only question marks. Cockrell was picked up off the waiver wire and received less and less playing time as the season wore on, Golson is coming off a season-ending injury and never played a down, Grant was cut and only returned after clearing waivers and never played either except for a little bit on special teams and after them we only have Isaiah Frey and Al-Hajj Shabazz...

Am I personally sure? No. I don't have that kind of insider knowledge. I do, however, have every confidence in our coaches. If they need personnel, they will let the FO know. I know Gay knows his job. I watched Golson play in many games of his college career, and because of that, I am very confident in his ability. I don't know Cockrell. I know he has been playing and learning.
In our defensive system we don't need the best of the best. We just need guys that can do their job. I'm more concerned with getting an 'Ace' at safety more than a shutdown corner. That's not how our defense works.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Am I personally sure? No. I don't have that kind of insider knowledge. I do, however, have every confidence in our coaches. If they need personnel, they will let the FO know. I know Gay knows his job. I watched Golson play in many games of his college career, and because of that, I am very confident in his ability. I don't know Cockrell. I know he has been playing and learning.
In our defensive system we don't need the best of the best. We just need guys that can do their job. I'm more concerned with getting an 'Ace' at safety more than a shutdown corner. That's not how our defense works.

and what happens if William Gay were to get injured?

[Mojouw]

Am I personally sure? No. I don't have that kind of insider knowledge. I do, however, have every confidence in our coaches. If they need personnel, they will let the FO know. I know Gay knows his job. I watched Golson play in many games of his college career, and because of that, I am very confident in his ability. I don't know Cockrell. I know he has been playing and learning.
In our defensive system we don't need the best of the best. We just need guys that can do their job. I'm more concerned with getting an 'Ace' at safety more than a shutdown corner. That's not how our defense works.

Yup. Improve the safety play and pump up the pass rush. Then you CBs just have to be fundamentally sound and assignment proficient.

[Born2Steel]

and what happens if William Gay were to get injured?

What if anybody gets injured?

[hawaiiansteeler]

What if anybody gets injured?

then you need capable backups, which we don't have at the CB position...

[Born2Steel]

then you need capable backups, which we don't have at the CB position...

While that is completely true.....or Tuitt, or Heyward, or Shaz, or Timmons, or Mitchell, or AB, or Ben, or ughh the longsnapper? We have a huge dropoff at backup everywhere. Only at OLB and OLine do we have some quality/playing time depth.
The point I was trying to make originally is our defense doesn't need the top tier CBs to be successful. We need CBs that know their assignments and can do that job. If talking pure numbers, we do not have enough of those, I do agree. But like any team, if we get hit by the injury bug, we're in trouble. Next man up.