Le'Veon Bell for Rob Gronkowski:

[Cyphon25]

So earlier in the offseason there was some talk about the benefits of trading Bell or not signing him to a long term deal and instead using that money on defense or whatever. I am not going to get into the pros and cons of that or what the writer talked about. However, with Heath retiring and our new need at TE it made me think of what I feel is a very intriguing question.

That is, would you trade Le'Veon Bell for Rob Gronkowski. You can answer from either teams perspective or both if you want. Here are my thoughts:


Patriots perspective:

Gronk is the best TE in the game without question and Brady's blanket. He is also a really good blocker. So it is obvious what you lose if he goes. So let's talk about the gain in bringing in Bell. Brady was one of the 10 most sacked QB's in the NFL last year and his strength as a passer is picking apart D's from the pocket mainly using short to intermediate routes. In my opinion, Bell is the perfect play to not only help take pressure off of Brady but also plays to his strengths as a pass with his ability to catch out of the backfield. Bell is arguably the best all-around RB in the game so with his addition to the Pats he would keep opposing defenses honest which would keep them from teeing off on Brady and give Brady the time he needs to pick them apart. And again, could sit in the soft spots to give Brady another target who is great after the catch.

This doesn't even account for what a genius like Bellicheck would do with Bell that us average Joes might not even think of.

Steelers perspective:

Bell is an amazing RB. As Steelers fans you don't need to tell me what he brings. But I want to talk about what Gronk would add. One of our biggest issues over the last few years has been redzone offense. No matter what weapons we have had we have struggled there. I can't imagine that the addition of Gronk wouldn't be a big help in fixing that. On top of if, I think Gronk is the perfect kind of target for a QB like Ben who often times breaks into a backyard style of play. What better guy to have than someone his size who is nearly un-coverable?


In my opinion this would be a mutually beneficial trade for both teams. And look, I know it would never happen but I think it makes for a fun discussion and would like to see what other people think about it. Would it be a mostly even trade? Do you think one team benefits more? Would you make it?

[steelreserve]

Fuck that! Bell adds a whole different dimension to the offense, and Gronkowski's got Patriots stink on him.

[hawaiiansteeler]

unrelated but funny nevertheless:

Rob Gronkowski is basically paying people to have sex in public on his party cruise

February 22, 2016

Rob Gronkowski is hosting a cadre of drunken coeds in the Caribbean aboard his party cruise this weekend, and well, it might be more outrageous than you would imagine.

Everyone is getting drunk and dancing all over the place. It's fun, college-esque spring break stuff. Good for them.

Oh, there's also this video of Gronk basically offering $10,000 to any couple that will have sex in front of the large group of people:

to read rest of article and watch video:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl-news/4695711-rob-gronkowski-party-cruise-gronk-offers-fans-10k-sex-patriots-flo-rida-waka-flaka

[Cyphon25]

Fuck that! Bell adds a whole different dimension to the offense, and Gronkowski's got Patriots stink on him.

Look, I love Bell but I don't see where he adds a whole different dimension to our offense. Williams was practically a thousand yard back and can catch out of the backfield as well. Is Bell better? Without question. But so much better that you wouldn't than Williams that you wouldn't want Gronk and Williams over Bell? I don't see it.

And while I hate the Patriots I have a ton of respect for what Gronk can do on the football field. He is one of the only players in the NFL who is unquestionably number 1 at their position.

[Dwinsgames]

I think the Pats sign Matt Forte in FA , he will bring to the table a lot of what Bell brings for Brady and Forte is probably in search of a Ring before he is done so they may get him on the relative cheap side considering his talent level

[vindrow]

Uhhhhhh...No.

[Cyphon25]

I think the Pats sign Matt Forte in FA , he will bring to the table a lot of what Bell brings for Brady and Forte is probably in search of a Ring before he is done so they may get him on the relative cheap side considering his talent level

Not really what I was getting at. I am asking in a hypothetical world what you think of this trade. From both sides of the table.


Uhhhhhh...No.

Nice insight. Very intellectual.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Look, I love Bell but I don't see where he adds a whole different dimension to our offense. Williams was practically a thousand yard back and can catch out of the backfield as well. Is Bell better? Without question. But so much better that you wouldn't than Williams that you wouldn't want Gronk and Williams over Bell? I don't see it.

And while I hate the Patriots I have a ton of respect for what Gronk can do on the football field. He is one of the only players in the NFL who is unquestionably number 1 at their position.

I agree, DeAngelo + Gronk > Le'Veon Bell

however, DeAngelo may only have another season left in him...

[86WARD]

No.

Why trade the leagues best YOUNG running back for one of the leagues best TEs who is "older".

No thanks.

[Cyphon25]

No.

Why trade the leagues best YOUNG running back for one of the leagues best TEs who is "older".

No thanks.

1. Gronk is 26 to Le'Veon Bells 24. RB's tend to burn out earlier. So age isn't necessarily a concern.

2. Gronk is thee best TE in the league. It isn't even debatable.

3. For the reasons I explained above.

[Born2Steel]

1. Gronk has missed with major injuries, but can dominate when healthy.
Bell has missed with major injuries, but can dominate when healthy.

2. Gronk is a huge redzone weapon.
Bell is a huge redzone weapon.

3. Bell's shortened 2015 season = 4.9yrds/rush, 5.7 yrds/rec
Gronk's 2015 season = 16.3 yrds/rec, no rushes.

4. Bell's 2016 offseason plan = Getting healthy
Gronk's 2016 offseason plan = Says getting in shape but cruising and giving lap dances by all reports.

Going to stay with Bell.

[Mojouw]

It all depends on how much you hold to the idea that RBs are fungible. If you think that you can find a guy who can replicate Bells' production in any of the first 4 rounds of a given draft, then the trade is lopsided and if the Pats offer Gronk, you do it in a heartbeat.

If you believe that not all RBs are created equal, then you likely stick with Bell since he is impactful in more alignments.

[Cyphon25]

It all depends on how much you hold to the idea that RBs are fungible. If you think that you can find a guy who can replicate Bells' production in any of the first 4 rounds of a given draft, then the trade is lopsided and if the Pats offer Gronk, you do it in a heartbeat.

If you believe that not all RBs are created equal, then you likely stick with Bell since he is impactful in more alignments.

I think you more or less nailed my thoughts in a summarized manner. With the add on from me that I think RB's are absolutely fungible.

I will be the first to say that Bell is special. But even with that, I can't imagine how much more he would have added to what Williams gave us. I mean, Williams had a great season. How much greater would Bell have made it?

We also saw it a bit in Seattle when Lynch was out. Nobody Thomas Rawls stepped up big.

[lipps83]

Gronk 9 times out of 10. Bell is probably the best back in the game right now. Gronk very well may be the best TE to ever play the game. There is no match up against Gronk that favors the other team, unless he is out. The Steelers lost Bell and didn't miss a beat.

You can't replace Bell 100%, but you can come pretty close. That and the career span for a back is much, much shorter than a TE.

Having a great back isn't nearly as important today as it was 20 years ago. Today it is just a nice to have.

Name the last great hall of fame caliber back to win a super bowl.

..............................and.........

Jerome Bettis over 10 years ago and he wasn't even the starting back that season.

I bet very few can name more than 5 of the starting halfbacks on the last 10 super bowl teams, not counting the Steelers.

You don't even need a 1000 yard rusher to win a super bowl. Heck, not even 4 teams had one in the last 10 years. Mostly have been backs by committee.

Bell is not only unnecessary, but signing him to a big contract very well may handicap this team since there are much, much bigger needs to fill.

That is the reality.

[zulater]

First and foremost I don't see either team reaching out to initiate the proposed deal. If at any point that changes then perhaps I'll take this more seriously. But as I don't believe there's a snowball in hell's chance of this happening I'm not going to waste a great deal of time discussing it.

Second I can see some sense in it. But I disagree with the assertion that DeAngelo Williams is a suitable replacement for Bell. Yes he did a great job last season. But he's ancient by NFL rb standards and projecting him to carry the load for the entire 16 season isn't something I would endorse. I am hoping that Haley incorporates both into the offense, something like a 60-30 split for offensive snaps. I could see their combined production as being something really special next season.

Yeah it would be nice to have Gronk. But again I'm quite content with what we've got and don't really see any chance of it happening anyway.

[Cyphon25]

First and foremost I don't see either team reaching out to initiate the proposed deal. If at any point that changes then perhaps I'll take this more seriously. But as I don't believe there's a snowball in hell's chance of this happening I'm not going to waste a great deal of time discussing it.

You are correct in the fact that there is no way this would ever happen. The purpose is just to have an interesting topic during the down time of the NFL. Especially a topic I doubt you will find anyone else on the planet talking about.


Second I can see some sense in it. But I disagree with the assertion that DeAngelo Williams is a suitable replacement for Bell. Yes he did a great job last season. But he's ancient by NFL rb standards and projecting him to carry the load for the entire 16 season isn't something I would endorse. I am hoping that Haley incorporates both into the offense, something like a 60-30 split for offensive snaps. I could see their combined production as being something really special next season.

Yeah it would be nice to have Gronk. But again I'm quite content with what we've got and don't really see any chance of it happening anyway.

For the record I would never argue Williams is a suitable replacement. Age is definitely a concern. My point focuses more on loss vs gain for each side. As I pointed out, Brady was sacked a lot last year and doesn't do well under pressure. So Bell is an almost perfect fix because he makes defenses worry about him which takes pressure off of Brady and relieves some of their OL weakness. Not only that, but Bell is a great option out of the backfield and he tends to catch the ball right where Brady likes to throw it.

On our side of things you may lose some of that scaring the defense stuff Bell brings, but it isn't as important to us for multiple reasons.

1. We have a great offensive line. They don't need a lot of help.

2. Ben is good under pressure.

And on the positive side of things, Gronk GREATLY increases our redzone capabilities which is our offenses biggest flaw by a very wide margin.

[zulater]

You are correct in the fact that there is no way this would ever happen. The purpose is just to have an interesting topic during the down time of the NFL. Especially a topic I doubt you will find anyone else on the planet talking about.



For the record I would never argue Williams is a suitable replacement. Age is definitely a concern. My point focuses more on loss vs gain for each side. As I pointed out, Brady was sacked a lot last year and doesn't do well under pressure. So Bell is an almost perfect fix because he makes defenses worry about him which takes pressure off of Brady and relieves some of their OL weakness. Not only that, but Bell is a great option out of the backfield and he tends to catch the ball right where Brady likes to throw it.

On our side of things you may lose some of that scaring the defense stuff Bell brings, but it isn't as important to us for multiple reasons.

1. We have a great offensive line. They don't need a lot of help.

2. Ben is good under pressure.

And on the positive side of things, Gronk GREATLY increases our redzone capabilities which is our offenses biggest flaw by a very wide margin.

As far as our offensive line. We had a good offensive line for the past two seasons. But we've got Foster and Beachum both facing free agency, so our quality depth is limited. And if Gilbert or DeCastro go down to injury who knows where that leaves us?

Obviously Gronk is a quality blocker so that would help in that regard. But let me throw in one additional caveat against this potential move. As silly as it may sound with Bell having both his last two seasons finished up early due to injures, I think Gronk is a bigger health risk than Bell. Bell's injury's have come about due to two isolated cheap shots. Gronk on the other hand seems to be showing signs of wear and tear associated with constant contact. Bell other than his isolated injuries has proven more durable imo. 99% of the time after a hard hit Bell has gotten up unscathed. In contrast it seems like Gronk is limping off the field every other play when I see a Patriot game. He presents a huge target, and is constantly getting taken down low. I think sooner rather than later we're going to see his play start to fall off. Yes I know he's only 26, but he's an old 26 if that makes sense? :lol:

I would say this. If Deon Lewis was thrown into the deal, providing he passes a physical, I would have more interest. But there again that's another reason this will never happen. I think Lewis is the real deal, and I think the Patriots think so as well. So they probably have a running back they're content with already.

[steelreserve]

A great RB lets you do more things than a great TE. No tight end has ever accounted for 2,200 total yards in a season. Gronkowski's best total season yardage is less than Bell's best season rushing yardage, then there are 900 more receiving yards for Bell.

In Bell's only full season, his receiving yards alone would've been in the top half of Gronkowski's career receiving yardage seasons.

Bell has been injury-prone his first few seasons, but Gronkowski has been just as injury-prone if not more.

TEs can block and RBs can block. Which kind of blocker do you want? That's all.

Bell got knocked the fuck out and still held on to the ball to let us score a touchdown, when 99.9% of people drop the ball and it turns over to the other team. I mean, what the fuck do you want from the guy?

Bell is two awesome players in one. Gronkowski is possibly the best in his position, when he's not injured, playing in the most pass-friendly offense in the history of the game, and he comes from a franchise that's a dick, and he's a dick. Is this even a real question?

[Steeldude]

The Steelers wouldn't utilize Gronkowski to merit his huge salary.

[Born2Steel]

But wouldn't you guys love to have both?

[steelreserve]

But wouldn't you guys love to have both?

No. Fuck the Patriots and fuck everything about them, which includes Gronkowski.

[Cyphon25]

But wouldn't you guys love to have both?

Ha, that would be awesome.

If the Steelers announced today that we were getting Gronk I might just go ahead and bet everything I own that we win an SB.

[silver & black]

Ha, that would be awesome.

If the Steelers announced today that we were getting Gronk I might just go ahead and bet everything I own that we win an SB.

You may well win it anyway. I'm a die hard Raiders fan but, The Steelers are the best team in the league right now. If it wasn't for injuries, they probably would have won it this year. I'm gonna have to go wash my mouth out now. :wink02:

[zulater]

But wouldn't you guys love to have both?

Yeah, that and a Gulfstream jet and a mansion in the Hamptons.

[vindrow]

Not really what I was getting at. I am asking in a hypothetical world what you think of this trade. From both sides of the table.



Nice insight. Very intellectual.

That's all that needed to be said with a rediculous statement like that.

[Cyphon25]

That's all that needed to be said with a rediculous statement like that.

Sure, when your brain can't formulate an intelligent thought on the subject. Probably just better not to post though. You just take up good discussion space.

[dduc996]

Bell is 60% done.
Two blown knees ? Whatever happens to him , he'll be a shadow of his former self. He ain't no AP.
I say trade him off , Gronk or not. Williams and company filled the Bell gap just fine.

[lipps83]

Bell is 60% done.
Two blown knees ? Whatever happens to him , he'll be a shadow of his former self. He ain't no AP.
I say trade him off , Gronk or not. Williams and company filled the Bell gap just fine.

Not only that, but even with Williams out the two other backs fared pretty well minus the one fumble in the Divisional playoff game.

I just can't believe there are some out there willing to spend 10 million per year to keep a guy this team REALLY does not need. It has been demonstrated over and over that Leveon Bell is not an important cog in the wheel AT ALL. You can get two above average players at positions you actually need to upgrade for the same amount. Proven commodities can be signed to upgrade weaknesses, and draft a young RB to fill the void left by Bell that can replace Williams when he retires.

The unfortunate thing in all of this is I fully anticipate the team resigning Bell to a big deal.

[fansince'76]

Bell is 60% done.
Two blown knees ? Whatever happens to him , he'll be a shadow of his former self. He ain't no AP.

One blown knee and one hyperextension. Whether he fully recovers from the torn MCL or not remains to be seen. But he's a good deal younger than AP and unlike AP, he didn't tear his ACL, so I'm hopeful. And if he does fully recover, I'm confident that he'll go right back to being the best all-around RB in the game.

I truly think people have extremely short memories regarding how good Bell really is. Not only as a RB, but as an extra blocker and an outlet receiver.

DeAngelo filled in admirably, but one, he's turning 33 years old in April, and two, you can only do so much to replace the 2,200+ yards of offensive production that Bell accounted for in 2014. Further, we still don't really know what we have in Todman/Toussaint.

Do you guys really want to take a chance on going back to the days of the Mendenhall/Redman/Dwyer shit sandwich? Count me out.

[Cyphon25]

One blown knee and one hyperextension. Whether he fully recovers from the torn MCL or not remains to be seen. But he's a good deal younger than AP and unlike AP, he didn't tear his ACL, so I'm hopeful. And if he does fully recover, I'm confident that he'll go right back to being the best all-around RB in the game.

I truly think people have extremely short memories regarding how good Bell really is. Not only as a RB, but as an extra blocker and an outlet receiver.

DeAngelo filled in admirably, but one, he's turning 33 years old in April, and two, you can only do so much to replace the 2,200+ yards of offensive production that Bell accounted for in 2014. Further, we still don't really know what we have in Todman/Toussaint.

Do you guys really want to take a chance on going back to the days of the Mendenhall/Redman/Dwyer shit sandwich? Count me out.

For my part I certainly remember how good Bell is and I think he is truthfully the number 1 RB in the NFL. But there has to be serious consideration to what you can do with the amount of money they are going to have to pay Bell to keep him. Let's put the thread topic aside for a second.

Do you take Williams and 1000 all-purpose yards and a good/great corner or do you take Bell with 2200 all-purpose yards and our current corners? Beyond that consider the other players who are going to be getting paid here soon. Ben has a huge contract and if you give on to Bell and then have to pay AB you wrap up a good portion of your money in 3 players. Normally I wouldn't mind but they are going to eventually have to let some good players walk and they haven't been as good as replenishing the talent lately.

And I really like Todman for what it is worth. The team certainly doesn't seem to but I thought he looked better in limited time than Toissant did.

Speaking of short memories, I think people forget what Redman did for us given the situation he was in. In one of his first games as a starter he ran for over 100 yards and had a TD in the playoff game vs the Broncos. He was a great pass blocker and could catch well out of the backfield too. For what it's worth he had the number 1 rated pass blocking efficiency on PFF out of all running backs and was 1st or 2nd in tackle breaking efficiency.

What really hurt Redman was 2 things. 1, our line wasn't even close to what it is today. That is why Redman had to break so many tackles and he was really good at it. 2, Tomlin kept rotating him with Dwyer and Rainey. That committee approached messed them all up because it didn't allow for any of them to ever get into e rhythm. But Redman was a very underrated back.

[Mojouw]

Isaac Redman was about the most ordinary back ever. He was like the Wonder Bread of running backs. Meh.

He also had to break a ton of tackles because he had no burst.

[Cyphon25]

Isaac Redman was about the most ordinary back ever. He was like the Wonder Bread of running backs. Meh.

He also had to break a ton of tackles because he had no burst.

Nah, he was a really good back minus not having speed. Like I said, people just tend to forget because of our crappy line and crappy coaching decisions with our RB's. If you could go back and find when we drafted Bell people were really excited because Bell could catch out of the backfield but so could Redman. So even while it was happening people were ignoring what Redman could do.

The being slow thing hurt him but he was still capable of 100 yard games when the line actually did a decent job.

[fansince'76]

For my part I certainly remember how good Bell is and I think he is truthfully the number 1 RB in the NFL. But there has to be serious consideration to what you can do with the amount of money they are going to have to pay Bell to keep him. Let's put the thread topic aside for a second.

Do you take Williams and 1000 all-purpose yards and a good/great corner or do you take Bell with 2200 all-purpose yards and our current corners? Beyond that consider the other players who are going to be getting paid here soon. Ben has a huge contract and if you give on to Bell and then have to pay AB you wrap up a good portion of your money in 3 players. Normally I wouldn't mind but they are going to eventually have to let some good players walk and they haven't been as good as replenishing the talent lately.

Well, on a positive note, we do have Bell under his rookie deal for one more season. I'd imagine they'll bite the bullet and hang the franchise tag on him after that, depending how he does in 2016, so that buys us two more years of his services, anyway.

As someone else mentioned in another thread, I want the team to go all in over the next 2-3 years to win another Super Bowl and I think Bell as the featured RB gives us the best chance of doing that. I also think this team is very close already and I have a feeling Ben will be living on borrowed time after that point anyway.

The window will slam shut the moment Ben either retires or otherwise becomes ineffective, regardless of any other moves the team makes, IMO.

[tube517]

Isaac Redman was about the most ordinary back ever. He was like the Wonder Bread of running backs. Meh.

He also had to break a ton of tackles because he had no suddeness or glide.

Fixed. :chuckle:

I liked Redman but he's no Le'Veon Bell or even DeAngelo Williams at age 32. I think he could have gone to Arizona and been a backup if not for his career ending injury.

[steelreserve]

Well, on a positive note, we do have Bell under his rookie deal for one more season. I'd imagine they'll bite the bullet and hang the franchise tag on him after that, depending how he does in 2016, so that buys us two more years of his services, anyway.

As someone else mentioned in another thread, I want the team to go all in over the next 2-3 years to win another Super Bowl and I think Bell as the featured RB gives us the best chance of doing that. I also think this team is very close already and I have a feeling Ben will be living on borrowed time after that point anyway.

The window will slam shut the moment Ben either retires or otherwise becomes ineffective, regardless of any other moves the team makes, IMO.


Hey, don't forget the part where after Ben is done, we'll have one season of brief hope where a random castoff QB comes in and does well, gets us to maybe the second round of the playoffs, then the next season he turns into Derek Anderson and that's when we REALLY suck for a couple years. I just hope that guy comes cheap and if we re-sign him after the first year, it's on a deal more like $8M a year for two years than $120M for six years.

[Cyphon25]

Well, on a positive note, we do have Bell under his rookie deal for one more season. I'd imagine they'll bite the bullet and hang the franchise tag on him after that, depending how he does in 2016, so that buys us two more years of his services, anyway.

As someone else mentioned in another thread, I want the team to go all in over the next 2-3 years to win another Super Bowl and I think Bell as the featured RB gives us the best chance of doing that. I also think this team is very close already and I have a feeling Ben will be living on borrowed time after that point anyway.

The window will slam shut the moment Ben either retires or otherwise becomes ineffective, regardless of any other moves the team makes, IMO.

I just don't see it. We were likely SB bound this year with D'Angelo. What killed us vs the Broncos was missing him and AB as well as our defense on that last drive. So why spend the money on Bell?

It isn't so much that Bell isn't worth the money but moreso that he is more of a bonus weapon than an actual necessity for success. Other pieces would be more important to our cause.

[lipps83]

Well, on a positive note, we do have Bell under his rookie deal for one more season. I'd imagine they'll bite the bullet and hang the franchise tag on him after that, depending how he does in 2016, so that buys us two more years of his services, anyway.

As someone else mentioned in another thread, I want the team to go all in over the next 2-3 years to win another Super Bowl and I think Bell as the featured RB gives us the best chance of doing that. I also think this team is very close already and I have a feeling Ben will be living on borrowed time after that point anyway.

The window will slam shut the moment Ben either retires or otherwise becomes ineffective, regardless of any other moves the team makes, IMO.

Do they go all in and keep Bell, or do they go all in and improve the defense?

What helps more to win a championship? An unnecessary halfback on an already elite offense, or a defense?

We already have had the former for 3 years, and haven't won a championship since the latter was a contender.

[fansince'76]

I just don't see it. We were likely SB bound this year with D'Angelo. What killed us vs the Broncos was missing him and AB as well as our defense on that last drive. So why spend the money on Bell?

It isn't so much that Bell isn't worth the money but moreso that he is more of a bonus weapon than an actual necessity for success. Other pieces would be more important to our cause.


Do they go all in and keep Bell, or do they go all in and improve the defense?

What helps more to win a championship? An unnecessary halfback on an already elite offense, or a defense?

We already have had the former for 3 years, and haven't won a championship since the latter was a contender.

At the most important times, we haven't had Bell at our disposal.

IMO, the reason we needed to lean on the defense so heavily during the last successful Super Bowl run in '08 is because the OL was HISTORICALLY bad. And the OL STILL almost lost us that game (looking at you, Hartwig).

Sure, Denver just won one on their defense thanks largely to the stars aligning just right and being able to face two beat up teams at home in the playoffs and the fact that Cam Newton couldn't rise to the occasion in the Super Bowl.

My argument is that we make this offense so insanely good that we can win it all even with an average defense (health is a key component as well).

As it was, the defense took a step forward last year anyway despite the secondary, just based on the sack numbers and turnovers created because Butler dropped that passive 10-yard cushion shit for the most part and stayed aggressive and actually changed things up when the gameplan obviously wasn't working (see 2nd half of 1st Denver game).

And again, we were that close this year to making a run which was derailed more by injuries than anything else. And once more, we have Bell for one more year under his rookie deal. If he comes back 100% and we can actually stay healthy in 2016, watch out.

[lipps83]

I get what you are saying. I just don't know if I could sacrifice improving the defense for the cost of Bell, even though Bell is a great back.

Hopefully next year he will be healthy for the full season, and this off season they address the problems of the defense the best they can. I just hope the guys on the defensive side show enough to make the Bell decision easier when that time comes.

This doesn't even go into addressing the fact that this team now needs a tight end to replace Miller.

hahah, maybe put Bell at TE for the upcoming season. I bet he could do it, but too small.

[fansince'76]

I get what you are saying. I just don't know if I could sacrifice improving the defense for the cost of Bell, even though Bell is a great back.

Hopefully next year he will be healthy for the full season, and this off season they address the problems of the defense the best they can. I just hope the guys on the defensive side show enough to make the Bell decision easier when that time comes.

This doesn't even go into addressing the fact that this team now needs a tight end to replace Miller.

hahah, maybe put Bell at TE for the upcoming season. I bet he could do it, but too small.

:hatsoff:

I also get what you're saying. Watching schlubs like Manziel light up our secondary sucks!

As far as Miller goes, he seems to have been winding down for the last couple of years. Losing his leadership is going to hurt more than his production at this point, IMO.

[Butch]

IMHO Williams seemed to be losing his efficiency later in the season, and I don't think we see that with a healthy Bell.

Also on the original topic I would add that there is also another aspect to consider and that is chemistry and I just don't see Gronk fitting in with our current team.

I also don't like him being a cheatriot and would never believe his heart would ever be with the Steelers...once bit and twice shy.

So for all the reasons already brought up and for the above reason I would say no to that trade.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Isaac Redman was about the most ordinary back ever. He was like the Wonder Bread of running backs. Meh.

He also had to break a ton of tackles because he had no burst.

he was a great back up RB who also a pretty decent starter until he got a stinger his final year in the league what are you talking about? He was one of the best, if not THE best short yardage back in the league for a short time, like a year or two as well.

[zulater]

Bell is 60% done.
Two blown knees ? Whatever happens to him , he'll be a shadow of his former self. He ain't no AP.
I say trade him off , Gronk or not. Williams and company filled the Bell gap just fine.

I got a feeling you'll be eating these words next season I don't even think there's a concern that either of his prior injuries will bother him going forward. If you were making the calls for the Steelers Gregg Lloyd would have never started a game. Further by your logic or lack thereof Rod Woodson's last half dozen seasons in the league as an All Pro safety never happen. :doh:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Bell is 60% done.
Two blown knees ? Whatever happens to him , he'll be a shadow of his former self. He ain't no AP.
I say trade him off , Gronk or not. Williams and company filled the Bell gap just fine.

http://cdn3.gurl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/wait-what-gif.gif

[dduc996]

I got a feeling you'll be eating these words next season I don't even think there's a concern that either of his prior injuries will bother him going forward. If you were making the calls for the Steelers Gregg Lloyd would have never started a game. Further by your logic or lack thereof Rod Woodson's last half dozen seasons in the league as an All Pro safety never happen. :doh:
I hope I'm eating those words believe me.

To my recollection Rod Woodson was never the same either. He may have continued in the league but was never as good as he was as a Steeler.

The Rooney's tend to do that - if your preformence dwindles they'll pay you less to stay , or give you an option to leave.

The old 90's quote..."they flood the market with probowlers".

[BigNastyDefense]

I wouldn't make the trade.

The Patriots uncover TE's that are damn good easy. Hell, if Hernandez wasn't a thug, he would probably be the best TE in the league right now. Neither of them were first round picks either.

Reason number one why I wouldn't make the trade - we had Heath Miller for 11 years and never utilized him like the Patriots utilize Gronkowski. Why trade a player we do utilize for one we probably wouldn't use the way he's currently being used in New England?

Reason number two - you can utilize Bell as a runner and a pass catcher. He's also a hell of a blocker in run protection. You're not handing the ball off to Gronkowski. There's no guarantee you're going to get the same run game production from another RB, including Williams, that you'd get from Bell alone. Williams was released by the Panthers because he couldn't handle a full load 16 game season. There's no guarantee the other two running backs we had can actually produce throughout a 16 game season.

While many people look at RB's as easy to replace, it's not that easy when you have one who's actually dynamic.

Willie Parker was good, but so many Steelers fans hated him because he would hit the long one, but then go 2-1-3-2-5-3-1 yards on his next bunch of carries.

Mendenhall wasn't the worst RB in Steelers history (wish he could have hung on to the ball though), but he's pretty well hated.

Truth is, other then 2 freak knee injuries, Bell has been realatively healthy for his career. And if we actually had him in the playoffs the past two years, there's a chance we have 8 Lombardi Trophies in Pittsburgh right now (at least seven, I think we would have won it all last year if we had Bell).

[dduc996]

And knee injuries for a running back can be career ending - with one exception. (AP)

[hawaiiansteeler]

And knee injuries for a running back can be career ending - with one exception. (AP)

and would you agree that knee injuries can vary in severity?

[dduc996]

Yes....but nontheless a vidal part for the "runner" like the hand and arm are for the quarterback.
I hope Bell comes back bigger and better then even Adrian Peterson , the cards just seem to be stacked against him. At any position the health of the knee is critical for a long career in this sport.

[zulater]

Yes....but nontheless a vidal part for the "runner" like the hand and arm are for the quarterback.
I hope Bell comes back bigger and better then even Adrian Peterson , the cards just seem to be stacked against him. At any position the health of the knee is critical for a long career in this sport.


Bell's injury was even close to the severity of AP's.

And by the way both Jamal Charles and Frank Gore successfully rehabbed from more serious knee injuries than what Bell's is. And the knee is just as important for a cb as a rb no? Darrelle Revis also came back from a more serious injury than Bell and has sustained an exceptional level of play.

[86WARD]

Nah, he was a really good back minus not having speed. Like I said, people just tend to forget because of our crappy line and crappy coaching decisions with our RB's. If you could go back and find when we drafted Bell people were really excited because Bell could catch out of the backfield but so could Redman. So even while it was happening people were ignoring what Redman could do.

The being slow thing hurt him but he was still capable of 100 yard games when the line actually did a decent job.

Isaac Redman was terrible. He was no where near really good. Redman was released basically because of Dwyer and Felix Jones out performing him...far from good.

[Cyphon25]

Isaac Redman was terrible. He was no where near really good. Redman was released basically because of Dwyer and Felix Jones out performing him...far from good.

You must be thinking of a different player. Redman was a really good RB. He was stuck in a crap rotation behind a bad offensive line. If you can find them just go check the numbers. He was the number 1 pass blocking RB in the NFL I believe in 2011 or 2012 and was number 1 or 2 in tackle breaking efficiency both because he was a beast and because our line couldn't block. He was also a good/great pass catcher out of the backfield.

There were only 4 games ever where the Steelers basically gave him the full load (I am talking 15 or more carries) and only one of the 4 didn't go well where he only gained 49 yards. The other 3 games were for 92 yards and a TD, 121 yards and 146 yards and a TD. The trend was when they actually let him handle the load that he was a consistent 100 yard back which at the minimum is a good NFL starter if you don't want to call him really good or great.

But if you think he was terrible you clearly don't understand the RB position very well or just don't remember what Redman was capable of.

You can still find some of his moments on NFL.com but IMO this is the best example of why he was under-appreciated. A fantastic hands catch and run after on a hot read.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81cae196/Redman-gives-Steelers-the-lead

[86WARD]

You must be thinking of a different player. Redman was a really good RB. He was stuck in a crap rotation behind a bad offensive line. If you can find them just go check the numbers. He was the number 1 pass blocking RB in the NFL I believe in 2011 or 2012 and was number 1 or 2 in tackle breaking efficiency both because he was a beast and because our line couldn't block. He was also a good/great pass catcher out of the backfield.

There were only 4 games ever where the Steelers basically gave him the full load (I am talking 15 or more carries) and only one of the 4 didn't go well where he only gained 49 yards. The other 3 games were for 92 yards and a TD, 121 yards and 146 yards and a TD. The trend was when they actually let him handle the load that he was a consistent 100 yard back which at the minimum is a good NFL starter if you don't want to call him really good or great.

But if you think he was terrible you clearly don't understand the RB position very well or just don't remember what Redman was capable of.

You can still find some of his moments on NFL.com but IMO this is the best example of why he was under-appreciated. A fantastic hands catch and run after on a hot read.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81cae196/Redman-gives-Steelers-the-lead

I know the RB position very well thanks and I remember what Redman was. He was a camp sensation that eventually fizzled out and was replaced by Jonathan Dwyer and Felix Jones...while they kept the seat warm as Le'Veon developed. I remember he was a guy who would fumble atleast 2-3 times a season, I guy who averaged less than 50 yards a game in a season. If you want to say he was an average or decent back, I'd go with that...to say he was really good? No. He wasn't really good. He was on par with Dwyer...who also wasn't really good. To say he was superior in pass protection...he wasn't any better than Dwyer in 2013 as they both graded out exactly the same. Dwyer and Redman were virtually the same player with the exception of Redman being a tad bit better in the pass game...not pass protection. Neither was really good.

[fansince'76]

I wouldn't say Redman was terrible, I would say he was very, very average. However, he had a lot of heart and made the most of his limited physical gifts. If only Mendenhall could have had his motor...

[Cyphon25]

I know the RB position very well thanks and I remember what Redman was. He was a camp sensation that eventually fizzled out and was replaced by Jonathan Dwyer and Felix Jones...while they kept the seat warm as Le'Veon developed.

He was never replaced by Dwyer. They were both basically given split roles in the crappy rotation I keep talking about.


I remember he was a guy who would fumble atleast 2-3 times a season, I guy who averaged less than 50 yards a game in a season.

I will grant you fumbling was an issue he had but sure, he averaged less than 50 yards because he never got carries. As I pointed out already (maybe you missed it), when he was given the full load he had 3 100 yard games out of 4. Hardly a 50 yard average.


To say he was superior in pass protection...he wasn't any better than Dwyer in 2013 as they both graded out exactly the same. Dwyer and Redman were virtually the same player with the exception of Redman being a tad bit better in the pass game...not pass protection. Neither was really good.

He was superior in pass protection, if only by a little. He was 1 and Dwyer was 2. But it isn't about comparing them, he was number 1 in the entire NFL. And again, was also number 1 or 2 in tackle breaking efficiency.

If you gave Redman the line/team we have now he would be a 1000 yard rusher and probably a 1500-2000 yard all-purpose back. The main concern would be the fumbling which you mentioned. That is one thing I love about Bell. He never coughs the ball up.

[fansince'76]

Well, the OL WAS a shitshow and there's no denying it, but it's hard to speculate how much more productive Redman may have been had we hired Munchak a couple of years earlier.

[Cyphon25]

Well, the OL WAS a shitshow and there's no denying it, but it's hard to speculate how much more productive Redman may have been had we hired Munchak a couple of years earlier.

Very true. You never know how injuries will play a role and how the system will work with the back. I will say this, Bells patience and vision seem perfect for our system and I know he is great at that. I don't see Redman as that type of runner. I picture Redman being more of a Bettis for us.

Anyway, he isn't the topic and I have gotten way into discussing him lol.

[ThorndikeFFA]

No, thank you.

If we're going to talk about trading guys who've been unlucky and missed time due to injury, I would personally start that conversation with Pouncey. One more injury for that dude and I would trade him for a warm six pack of IC Light.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I wouldn't say Redman was terrible, I would say he was very, very average. However, he had a lot of heart and made the most of his limited physical gifts. If only Mendenhall could have had his motor...

Or his desire. Mendy never had the desire to be a great NFL RB.

[fansince'76]

Or his desire. Mendy never had the desire to be a great NFL RB.

Nope. He was fond of saying stupid shit on Twitter, though...

[86WARD]

He was never replaced by Dwyer. They were both basically given split roles in the crappy rotation I keep talking about.

Yes he was. He was cut after his fumbling issues, his concussion and his interviews about playing concussed. He became expendable because Dwyer was virtually the same player. If Redman was worth anything more than an average back, he never would have been cut. The team would have waited to see how he progressed from the injuries, worked in the fumbling, etc. He was nothing special so he was released.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Redman had a SPINAL CORD injury for crying out loud. Christ. The fans are just merciless on former players when it conveniences them. Someone tell me how he didnt perform admirably as a back up RB during the 3 healthier seasons where he got touches. He was one of the best short yardage backs in the league for a year or 2, and i remember PFF having him ranked as the best or 2nd best blocking back in the league for a time.

The dude has had some huge games, namely, but not limited to when we lost Mendenhall in 2011 for the finale, and redman proceeded to stomp on the broncos (which was overlooked because of Tebow), and that key Ravens game where he caught the game winning TD and broke some difficult tackles

The list of former players that the fans turn their backs on grows everyday. People on this thread are throwing shade at him like he was a 1st round pick. He was undrafted out of a Division III college. Yeesh

[zulater]

Redman had a SPINAL CORD injury for crying out loud. Christ. The fans are just merciless on former players when it conveniences them. Someone tell me how he didnt perform admirably as a back up RB during the 3 healthier seasons where he got touches. He was one of the best short yardage backs in the league for a year or 2, and i remember PFF having him ranked as the best or 2nd best blocking back in the league for a time.

The dude has had some huge games, namely, but not limited to when we lost Mendenhall in 2011 for the finale, and redman proceeded to stomp on the broncos (which was overlooked because of Tebow), and that key Ravens game where he caught the game winning TD and broke some difficult tackles

The former players that the fans turn their backs on grows everyday. People on this thread are throwing shade at him like he was a 1st round pick. He was undrafted out of a Division III college. Yeesh

I agree.I always liked Redman. High motor guy, always gave his all. He had some good moments, helped the Steelers win some important games. And as you say his career was cut short by injury. He wasn't a star, but I appreciate that he was a pro in every sense of the word.

[Nadroj 20]

Redman tossed his glove to me at Training Camp one year so as far as I'm concerned he was a GREAT RB.

[CapLovesTroyP43]

I'm with Steel Reserve. Who would want ANYONE with the Patriots stink on them??? No thanks!!! Bell any day of the week.

[Skinart82]

Instead of Gronk, what if the Seahawks offered a trade, Richard Sherman for Bell? Sherman was the only one last year to make Brown look human, and yes he got away with a lot, but he's a big, physical corner that I wouldn't mind seeing in B&G.

[pczach]

I loved Isaac Redman's heart. He played hard and fought for every yard.

The reality is that he had to fight for every yard because he couldn't make anybody miss, and he didn't have the speed, elusiveness, or hands to be a dynamic back. He was going to be a career backup running back at best. He was never in Le'veon Bell's class or DeAngelo Williams' class for that matter.

Cyphon25 and I had this conversation about Redman versus Bell at SteelersFever when Bell was drafted. I told him that Redman was a career backup with limited talent, and that I thought Bell was going to become the best RB in the NFL. He tried to claim that Redman was as good as Bell. I thought differently.

I don't understand the fascination with Redman and his limited ability. Never did.....never will. It's not an assassination of the man's career or the person. It's a realistic assessment of his football ability.

You can replace an Isaac Redman very easily. Le'Veon Bell is the most complete back in football when healthy. 2200 yards from scrimmage is not something you find very easily in football.

As for the Gronk/Bell swap, I still like having an elite player that can touch the ball 25-30 times a game. You can try to take him away by putting 8 in the box, but that only opens up the passing game. I still think an elite RB is more valuable than an elite TE. We don't know the future health of either player, but I'd still take my chances with Bell.

[Devilsdancefloor]

Uhhhhhh...No.

QFT