Bryce McCain to be Cut by Miami

[Craic]

As the title states, he'll be cut by Miami, according to his agent (http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2016/02/12/dolphins-to-release-brice-mccain-reunion-in-the-cards/).

The reason I posted it in the Steelers section is because I want to know how many would be willing to swap McCain for Blake as a baseline upgrade. Note, I'm not talking about bringing in McCain as a fix for the CB spot. His work this year, it seems, warrants no belief he could fulfill the role. Rather, I'm talking about simply raising the baseline of performance while we look for other CBs.

Personally, I'd do it. While I held out hope for Blake and believed some of the criticism directed at him wasn't always fair (You can't scheme for a CB to sit 12 yards deep on a 3rd and 3 and then get made when the offense makes the first down), I also recognize he failed in some basic areas that need to be fixed regardless of whether we get a top-grade CB or not.

[tube517]

Given the history of the Steelers, I wouldn't be surprised if they show interest.

[Steeldude]

Well he isn't very good at all, so Tomlin will go all out trying to sign him. This way he can have the two worst CBs starting.

I am fine with signing him as long as Blake is gone.

[Devilsdancefloor]

Well he isn't very good at all, so Tomlin will go all out trying to sign him. This way he can have the two worst CBs starting.

I am fine with signing him as long as Blake is gone.

this!

[86WARD]

No thanks.

[hawaiiansteeler]

No thanks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI_0tQdEA5k

[ALLD]

He is no Billy Gay.

[steelcityboyz]

No thanks.. sign Boykin

[Godfather]

Well he isn't very good at all, so Tomlin will go all out trying to sign him. This way he can have the two worst CBs starting.


That would require him to sign Brandon Browner.

[steelreserve]

I'd take him as a 1-for-1 replacement for Blake. Assuming he doesn't cost us much more. Overall, I still think we need to upgrade the position more than that, though.

[Rotorhead]

I agree with the 1 on 1 replacement for Blake, I always thought they should have kept him over Blake from the beginning.

[steelreserve]

I agree with the 1 on 1 replacement for Blake, I always thought they should have kept him over Blake from the beginning.

Yeah, I have to admit I was in the Blake camp, but that was primarily because we had the RFA tag which made it a no-brainer versus bidding for McCain on the open market. In hindsight, boy do I wish they'd paid the extra million or so. It wouldn't have totally fixed our problems, but it wouldn't have been as bad. We probably win the Seahawks game and possibly the Ravens and/or one of the Bengals games that way, likely win the division, and end up in much better position overall for the postseason.

[polamalubeast]

Steelers Interested In CB Brice McCain


http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/02/report-steelers-interested-in-cb-brice-mccain/

[Rotorhead]

Well in hindsight, I am pretty sure all of us thought Boykin would be starting over either of them also . . .

[hawaiiansteeler]

Given the history of the Steelers, I wouldn't be surprised if they show interest.

Jeremy Fowler
ESPN Staff Writer

Steelers have reached out to free agent corner Brice McCain about working out after the NFL combine, according to a source. McCain, released by Miami last week, started nine games for Pittsburgh in 2014.

http://espn.go.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0492060566710393630-4

[Hawkman]

Well in hindsight, I am pretty sure all of us thought Boykin would be starting over either of them also . . .
.....except Boykin doesn't play the same position. CBs are not interchangeable.

[steelreserve]

.....except Boykin doesn't play the same position. CBs are not interchangeable.


... says everyone who overthinks it to the point where they outsmart themselves. Your CBs HAVE to be interchangeable to a degree.

The offense shifts its formation, sends a guy or two in motion - what do you know, they've forced a different matchup. Another reason why I don't buy into the tall CB/short CB myth. On some level, you just have to be able to cover whoever lines up in front of you. That's why traditionally, your best two CBs are your starters and your third-best CB (or occasionally safety) is your slot/nickel guy.

Saying Boykin can't play anything other than the slot because he's a millimeter shorter than another guy is dumb. Actually, he's an inch taller than Blake, so there goes that argument entirely.

Unless you want to argue that Blake is one of our top two corners overall, which would be difficult seeing as how the only worse CB in the entire league played for New Orleans.

[SteelerFanInStl]

... says everyone who overthinks it to the point where they outsmart themselves. Your CBs HAVE to be interchangeable to a degree.

The offense shifts its formation, sends a guy or two in motion - what do you know, they've forced a different matchup. Another reason why I don't buy into the tall CB/short CB myth. On some level, you just have to be able to cover whoever lines up in front of you. That's why traditionally, your best two CBs are your starters and your third-best CB (or occasionally safety) is your slot/nickel guy.

Saying Boykin can't play anything other than the slot because he's a millimeter shorter than another guy is dumb. Actually, he's an inch taller than Blake, so there goes that argument entirely.

Unless you want to argue that Blake is one of our top two corners overall, which would be difficult seeing as how the only worse CB in the entire league played for New Orleans.

QFT

[86WARD]

... says everyone who overthinks it to the point where they outsmart themselves. Your CBs HAVE to be interchangeable to a degree.

The offense shifts its formation, sends a guy or two in motion - what do you know, they've forced a different matchup. Another reason why I don't buy into the tall CB/short CB myth. On some level, you just have to be able to cover whoever lines up in front of you. That's why traditionally, your best two CBs are your starters and your third-best CB (or occasionally safety) is your slot/nickel guy.

Saying Boykin can't play anything other than the slot because he's a millimeter shorter than another guy is dumb. Actually, he's an inch taller than Blake, so there goes that argument entirely.

Unless you want to argue that Blake is one of our top two corners overall, which would be difficult seeing as how the only worse CB in the entire league played for New Orleans.

Seattle would bunk that theory. They pretty much play their respective positions and very rarely vary from that.

[steelreserve]

Seattle would bunk that theory. They pretty much play their respective positions and very rarely vary from that.

So in other words, they cover whoever lines up across from them?

Whichever way you spin it - shifting positions to cover the same guy, or staying in the same position to cover a different guy - the whole pount is you have to be versatile. There just isn't any getting around it, and if you're one-dimensional at all, the offense will use that and exploit the shit out of it. I don't think there are many good CBs in the NFL who can "only" play a single limited role.

[86WARD]

So in other words, they cover whoever lines up across from them?

Whichever way you spin it - shifting positions to cover the same guy, or staying in the same position to cover a different guy - the whole pount is you have to be versatile. There just isn't any getting around it, and if you're one-dimensional at all, the offense will use that and exploit the shit out of it. I don't think there are many good CBs in the NFL who can "only" play a single limited role.

Yes. Seattle keeps Sherman on the left side and he covers whoever is over there.


One of the talking points to emerge from Seattle’s 36-16 win against Green Bay on Thursday was the play of cornerback Richard Sherman. Or, more accurately, the Packers’ thorough avoidance of Sherman. Sherman didn’t have a pass thrown his way and usually covered Jarrett Boykin, the Packers’ third-best receiver.


In Carroll’s defense, Sherman always stays on the left side of the field while Byron Maxwell patrols the right side. The Packers countered by sending Boykin to Sherman’s side, leaving receivers Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb to operate away from Sherman’s blanket.

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/seahawks-plan-on-keeping-richard-sherman-on-left-side/



An older artile, but you get the idea...

[Psycho Ward 86]

Yes. Seattle keeps Sherman on the left side and he covers whoever is over there.



An older artile, but you get the idea...


they dont always do this anymore. especially when there is a really good receiver on the opposing team. they moved him for AB, and i recall some other PFF articles about Sherman being moved on occassion this past season

position flexibility is important at CB even if you have teams like the 2014 seahawks that stay where they are. what happens when someone goes down?

[pepsyman1]

Knowing Tomlin, the end up signing McCain and let everyone ELSE go and they end up with McCain and Blake as their starting cornerbacks. Lmao

[Mojouw]

Some teams divide up their corners by the way they cover and/or role they play. A traditional distinction is as follows:

1. Field corner
2. Boundary corner
3. Slot

Or

Right, Left, and slot.

So it can be pretty tough to make comparisons between defensive schemes - especially when there are "elite" personnel involved in one line-up and not the other.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Some teams divide up their corners by the way they cover and/or role they play. A traditional distinction is as follows:

1. Field corner
2. Boundary corner
3. Slot

Or

Right, Left, and slot.

So it can be pretty tough to make comparisons between defensive schemes - especially when there are "elite" personnel involved in one line-up and not the other.


my hope is that Senquez develops into a good field corner, Cockrell continues to develop into a good boundary corner, and we draft/pick up in FA someone who isnt yet another CB mostly limited to the slot position.

[Mojouw]

my hope is that Senquez develops into a good field corner, Cockrell continues to develop into a good boundary corner, and we draft/pick up in FA someone who isnt yet another CB mostly limited to the slot position.

That would be the best case scenario. I just don't know if Cockrell is big and physical enough for the role. But we shall see.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Report: Former Steelers CB Brice McCain signs with Titans after being released by Dolphins

By Jeff.Hartman on Mar 2, 2016

When Brice McCain was released from the Miami Dolphins there was interest shown on behalf of the Steelers for a possible reunion. That reunion is off after reports state McCain has signed with the Titans.

It didn't take long for the rumors to swirl when Brice McCain was released by the Miami Dolphins a few weeks ago. Talk of a possible reunion in the Steel City made sense, and when the team reportedly was planning on working out McCain it seemed like an actual option.

Those hopes were dashed for fans of the Pittsburgh Steelers Wednesday with reports stating McCain has come to an agreement on a new deal with the Tennessee Titans.

The contract reunites McCain and former Steelers defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau. Since McCain was not under contract, he does not have to wait until free agency begins on March 9th to sign a new deal. With plenty of teams interested in his services at cornerback, he very well could have chosen the highest bidder. If that was the case, it would explain why he didn't choose Pittsburgh, as they don't have nearly as much cap space compared to other NFL franchises.

The Steelers will look to get younger at the cornerback position, but the personnel who will be on the field in 2016 is anything but certain as Antwon Blake, William Gay and Brandon Boykin are all set to become unrestricted free agents in less than a week.

The only returning cornerbacks on the roster are Senquez Golson, Ross Cockrell and Doran Grant. To say they need to address the cornerback position might be a huge understatement. Look for the team to make a move in free agency, as well as in the upcoming 2016 NFL Draft, to fill the gaping holes in an already porous secondary which ranked 30th in the NFL in 2015.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/nfl-pittsburgh-steelers-news/2016/3/2/11147500/report-former-steelers-cb-brice-mccain-signs-with-titans-after-being

[Drazo85]

Is it to soon to say welcome back Blake?

[steelreserve]

That would be the best case scenario. I just don't know if Cockrell is big and physical enough for the role. But we shall see.

I think Cockrell is the only one of the CBs who's 6 feet tall, probably one of the reasons we kept him so quickly. Hopefully he evolves into an adequate player at the position.



Those hopes were dashed for fans of the Pittsburgh Steelers Wednesday with reports stating McCain has come to an agreement on a new deal with the Tennessee Titans.

I wouldn't say our hopes were "dashed" ... when we talk about swapping Blake for the theoretical "replacement-level player," McCain is exactly what we're talking about. Would've been a little better, but not the big step forward we're all hoping for.

[polamalubeast]

$2.5M per year for him....

[tube517]

Report: Former Steelers CB Brice McCain signs with Titans after being released by Dolphins

By Jeff.Hartman on Mar 2, 2016

When Brice McCain was released from the Miami Dolphins there was interest shown on behalf of the Steelers for a possible reunion. That reunion is off after reports state McCain has signed with the Titans.

It didn't take long for the rumors to swirl when Brice McCain was released by the Miami Dolphins a few weeks ago. Talk of a possible reunion in the Steel City made sense, and when the team reportedly was planning on working out McCain it seemed like an actual option.

Those hopes were dashed for fans of the Pittsburgh Steelers Wednesday with reports stating McCain has come to an agreement on a new deal with the Tennessee Titans.

The contract reunites McCain and former Steelers defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau. Since McCain was not under contract, he does not have to wait until free agency begins on March 9th to sign a new deal. With plenty of teams interested in his services at cornerback, he very well could have chosen the highest bidder. If that was the case, it would explain why he didn't choose Pittsburgh, as they don't have nearly as much cap space compared to other NFL franchises.

The Steelers will look to get younger at the cornerback position, but the personnel who will be on the field in 2016 is anything but certain as Antwon Blake, William Gay and Brandon Boykin are all set to become unrestricted free agents in less than a week.

The only returning cornerbacks on the roster are Senquez Golson, Ross Cockrell and Doran Grant. To say they need to address the cornerback position might be a huge understatement. Look for the team to make a move in free agency, as well as in the upcoming 2016 NFL Draft, to fill the gaping holes in an already porous secondary which ranked 30th in the NFL in 2015.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/nfl-pittsburgh-steelers-news/2016/3/2/11147500/report-former-steelers-cb-brice-mccain-signs-with-titans-after-being

LOL of course, the Titans would be in the running for him.

[Craic]

I think Cockrell is the only one of the CBs who's 6 feet tall, probably one of the reasons we kept him so quickly. Hopefully he evolves into an adequate player at the position.




I wouldn't say our hopes were "dashed" ... when we talk about swapping Blake for the theoretical "replacement-level player," McCain is exactly what we're talking about. Would've been a little better, but not the big step forward we're all hoping for.

yes and yes.

Looking back at why we're having so many problems at the CB position, I think it falls to the choice between Cortez Allen and Keenan Lewis. Granted Lewis didn't play well in NO, but he showed great upside in the Steelers system. Had we kept him, right now we'd be looking at two average to above average CBs and a couple slot CBs that look very promising. With the rest of our defense and offense, that's more than we need to make a very strong SB run. Instead, we're struggling because we have a number 2 CB in Gay lining up as a number 1 (and doing a decent job of it, to be honest—although he's a FA this year) and then trying to fill in the cracks behind him.

It's one of the few spots where the coaches/management made a big mistake in player personnel.

[steelreserve]

yes and yes.

Looking back at why we're having so many problems at the CB position, I think it falls to the choice between Cortez Allen and Keenan Lewis. Granted Lewis didn't play well in NO, but he showed great upside in the Steelers system. Had we kept him, right now we'd be looking at two average to above average CBs and a couple slot CBs that look very promising. With the rest of our defense and offense, that's more than we need to make a very strong SB run. Instead, we're struggling because we have a number 2 CB in Gay lining up as a number 1 (and doing a decent job of it, to be honest—although he's a FA this year) and then trying to fill in the cracks behind him.

It's one of the few spots where the coaches/management made a big mistake in player personnel.


Two things on that: First, I obviously agree that we kept the wrong guy between Allen and Lewis, although all indications were that Lewis was going to his hometown in NO and we couldn't have kept him at any price. That aside, I wonder if the problem also has to do with player development. None of our DBs ever seem to get any better, which to me says Lake may have been a great player but is a shitty DB coach. Would Allen have succeeded if he'd gotten better coaching? Who knows, but I think the question belongs on the table. Would Blake at least have been able to compensate for his most glaring deficiencies? I think that's the kind of thing a decent position coach definitely can address - you only end up getting abused like Blake did if you fail to learn from your mistakes and just keep doing the same stupid shit over and over. So I would put position coaching on the list of improvements that should be on the radar.

Second, I have finally come to believe that after a ROUGH FUCKING START, this group has finally started to (mostly) get the hang of drafting, and managed to put together a respectable, if a bit lopsided, roster on their own. The Stink of 2008-09 (capitalized on purpose) had lasting effects for several years, and I think some of our current imbalance can be traced to spamming LINEBACKER LINEBACKER LINEBACKER LINEBACKER as a reaction to our shortcomings from that time. But for the most part the personnel picture looks a lot better than I used to give them credit for. Some of that may also be related to coordinator changes that have used the talent we do have more effectively, but there is no way to say anymore that this is not a competitive team.

[Mojouw]

yes and yes.

Looking back at why we're having so many problems at the CB position, I think it falls to the choice between Cortez Allen and Keenan Lewis. Granted Lewis didn't play well in NO, but he showed great upside in the Steelers system. Had we kept him, right now we'd be looking at two average to above average CBs and a couple slot CBs that look very promising. With the rest of our defense and offense, that's more than we need to make a very strong SB run. Instead, we're struggling because we have a number 2 CB in Gay lining up as a number 1 (and doing a decent job of it, to be honest—although he's a FA this year) and then trying to fill in the cracks behind him.

It's one of the few spots where the coaches/management made a big mistake in player personnel.

And this was another: http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2015/1/17/7575271/steelers-cfl-delvin-breaux-workout-contract-signing-roster

Curiously, they both ended up on the Saints.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Two things on that: First, I obviously agree that we kept the wrong guy between Allen and Lewis, although all indications were that Lewis was going to his hometown in NO and we couldn't have kept him at any price. That aside, I wonder if the problem also has to do with player development. None of our DBs ever seem to get any better, which to me says Lake may have been a great player but is a shitty DB coach. Would Allen have succeeded if he'd gotten better coaching? Who knows, but I think the question belongs on the table. Would Blake at least have been able to compensate for his most glaring deficiencies? I think that's the kind of thing a decent position coach definitely can address - you only end up getting abused like Blake did if you fail to learn from your mistakes and just keep doing the same stupid shit over and over. So I would put position coaching on the list of improvements that should be on the radar.

I loved Lake as a player but yea, this seems like it could be the case. I wouldn't be upset if he weren't brought back.

Our OL had the same problem before we hired Munchak. Not quite the same because most of them were higher draft picks than our DBs but we've all seen the big difference that Munchak has made.

[Dwinsgames]

I loved Lake as a player .


100% agree , College LB to NFL Safety to NFL Corner is not a task undertaken by many or often , one has to respect that and he did so with relative ease and at a very high level ..

That being said great player does not always translate to great coach or even good coach , my issue is I am just not sure it is his fault considering we really have not given him much to work with but I question if we can risk spending more with him in charge of that aspect of the team which may be unfair but just how I feel

[lipps83]

100% agree , College LB to NFL Safety to NFL Corner is not a task undertaken by many or often , one has to respect that and he did so with relative ease and at a very high level ..

That being said great player does not always translate to great coach or even good coach , my issue is I am just not sure it is his fault considering we really have not given him much to work with but I question if we can risk spending more with him in charge of that aspect of the team which may be unfair but just how I feel

The crazy thing about this is that you would expect Lake to be an excellent coach for exactly those reasons. He played pretty much every secondary position so should be familiar with how to develop the necessary skills and traits to be, at minimum, an average player in the secondary. An average player would be a bonus right now.

For some reason though the secondary has not developed since he began his tenure as coach. Sucks, but I think he may be part of the problem.

[Psycho Ward 86]

The crazy thing about this is that you would expect Lake to be an excellent coach for exactly those reasons. He played pretty much every secondary position so should be familiar with how to develop the necessary skills and traits to be, at minimum, an average player in the secondary. An average player would be a bonus right now.

For some reason though the secondary has not developed since he began his tenure as coach. Sucks, but I think he may be part of the problem.

we did rank #1 in pass defense the year after ranking like 12th and getting burned quite a bit during 2010, despite having the #1 defense. Keenan Lewis also finally bloomed out of nowhere. Then again, that was that strange year where our defense had top marks across the board, but still had almost no sacks or interceptions

[tube517]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/10/carnell-lake-not-behind-talent-deficiency-in-the-secondary/

I'm not sure what to think about Lake. He's had some draft picks turn to crap and most that were crap out of the gate.

2011-15 has been a rollercoaster.

Can't find a different article that painted a negative picture on Lake's input during the draft since he's been here.

But, he was the one saying "We're doing OK" with Blake. :noidea:

[Psycho Ward 86]

S Rahim Moore cut from the Texans according to Steelers Depot

If we cant get Weddle or Thurmond, this looks like an interesting option. We could get him for a bargain price. He used to be really good, could just be a fluke year in Houston.

But yes, this is the guy that helped flacco get to the superbowl on that stupid heave. im willing to forgive him for it

[hawaiiansteeler]

Titans sign CB Brice McCain (2 years, $5 million): D+ Grade

Brice McCain was recently released from the Dolphins, a team with a dire cornerback situation, and he managed to sign with a team that has an even worse one. The Titans are desperate at the position, so I can understand why they were so eager to pounce on a player who suddenly became available to them. However, they definitely overpaid. A 2-year, $5 million contract isn't going to break the bank, but it's a lot for a player who struggled mightily for Miami last season. The Dolphins are a mess, and they didn't even want him, so why is McCain getting more than the veteran minimum?

http://walterfootball.com/freeagentsigninggrades.php#fEJM13uFjtdFBCFt.99

[86WARD]

Good. He wasn't good and it would be a mistake signing him here. [ /Thread].