Todd McShay Mock Draft 2.0: CB Eli Apple headed to the Steelers

[hawaiiansteeler]

Todd McShay Mock Draft 2.0: ESPN expert also sees Eli Apple headed to the Steelers

By Jeff.Hartman on Feb 4, 2016

https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/U5SCRBflFi-asi8SMKhqOwtFsr4=/0x0:2999x1999/1310x873/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/48726805/GettyImages-458207848.0.jpg

Another expert mock draft, and another prediction of the Pittsburgh Steelers selecting CB Eli Apple from Ohio State in the first round with the 25th pick in the draft.

The mock draft season is in full swing as experts across the NFL landscape keep pumping out their weekly, sometimes daily, mock drafts predicting what will happen in the upcoming 2016 NFL Draft. For ESPN's NFL Draft expert Todd McShay, he just released his second mock draft of the offseason.

McShay's 2.0 draft is far different from his first attempt, mainly with the NFL Draft order officially set, and teams starting to narrow their focus with All-Star games like the East vs. West and Senior Bowl games completed. Nontheless, McShay, like many experts, has been singing a similar tune for the Pittsburgh Steelers in the first round with the 25th pick of the draft.

Yes, he too sees the team not only selecting a cornerback, but none other than Ohio State's Eli Apple. See what McShay had to say about the selection:

25. Pittsburgh Steelers (10-6)

Eli Apple, CB, Ohio State Buckeyes

With good length (6-foot-1, 200 pounds) and top-end speed, Apple showed he could turn and run with Notre Dame speedster Will Fuller during the Fiesta Bowl. He's also a strong tackler and run supporter, which are qualities the Steelers value highly in their defensive backs.

The nice aspect of McShay's mock drafts, compared to others, is he doesn't just say, "The Steelers need secondary help." That is kind of a no-brainer considering the team finished 30th in the NFL in pass defense in 2015. Throw in the fact three of their top four cornerbacks are becoming free agents this offseason, and yeah, the team needs secondary help.

McShay notes Apple's play against Notre Dame's Will Fuller in the Fiesta Bowl victory, and his willingness to tackle ball carriers as strengths -- something the Steelers like to have in their cornerbacks.

However, regardless of what any expert suggests, the Steelers have shown time and time again they aren't crazy about drafting a cornerback in the first round of the draft. Some chalk it up to the Best Player Available (BPA) philosophy, while others speak of the need for a pass rush to mask a mediocre secondary. Whatever the case may be, don't be frustrated if fans are a bit skeptical of their favorite organization addressing a glaring weakness in the first round of the draft.

Only time will tell, but a lot of people sure do like Apple wearing black and gold in 2016.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2016-nfl-mock-draft-pittsburgh-steelers-list-database/2016/2/4/10904364/todd-mcshay-mock-draft-2-0-espn-expert-also-sees-eli-apple-headed-to

[tube517]

Is this guy truly a first round pick/BPA type? (I know nothing about college players and the draft)

[Shoes]

I don't think the Steelers go CB in the first. I think they go D-line, LB or TE in the 1st, 2nd & 3rd

[86WARD]

Didn't I read somewhere that Apple is a risky pick? Poor work ethic?

[hawaiiansteeler]

Mock Draft: What if the Steelers have to choose between Kendall Fuller and Eli Apple?

By Jeff.Hartman on Feb 3, 2016

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/BeBLrjqk7mBF9eZF9QN4x_xaM8w=/0x465:2555x2168/1310x873/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/48715753/usa-today-8077320.0.jpg

The Pittsburgh Steelers could have their choice at cornerbacks in the upcoming 2016 NFL Draft. One recent mock draft talks about the decision Pittsburgh could face with the 25th selection.

If you are honest with yourself, the Pittsburgh Steelers will be looking to add to their defensive roster in the 2016 NFL Draft, but the position will be highly debated. Could the Steelers look for an offensive player? In theory, yes, but a lot would have to transpire with athletes going off the board prior to the 25th pick even being made. Therefore, the debate then begins whether the Steelers go with another linebacker, or if they choose to add talent in the secondary.

The Steelers always take a Best Player Available (BPA) approach in the early rounds of the draft, and if there isn't an edge rusher who has dropped to them -- like Bud Dupree did in 2015 -- the team could be looking at the BPA at the cornerback position.

With the top tier talent likely off the board before the 25th pick, the Steelers could have a serious decision to make with two players who are considered to be first round talent, but not necessarily at the top of the list at their position. The two players? Kendall Fuller of Virginia Tech and Eli Apple of Ohio State.

There have been mock drafts who have both of these players as potential first round picks for the black and gold, but which player would better suit the secondary deprived Steelers? In SB Nation's latest mock draft, they have the Steelers looking at Apple, but not without thinking about Fuller.

25. Pittsburgh Steelers: Eli Apple, CB, Ohio State

If cornerback ends up being the pick for Pittsburgh at No. 25, there's going to be a long debate between Apple and Kendall Fuller of Virginia Tech. Apple has superior size, athleticism and long-term potential.

This mock clearly thinks Apple is the choice, but let's take a look at the tale of the tape to give you a better glimpse at these two prospects who could help re-shape the team's secondary in 2016.

Eli Apple

Height: 6-feet 1-inch
Weight: 200-pounds

Strengths: Good height, weight and arm length combination. Clean footwork in transition with natural ability to mirror and match from press coverage. Won't open hips early and rarely turned around off line of scrimmage. Has foot quickness in short spaces to maintain feel for his man. Extremely competitive when ball is in the air. Has play strength to redirect receivers from their routes. Aggressive hands in coverage and fights hard to disrupt the catch by any means necessary. Finished with 22 passes defensed over last two years. Scouts praise him for work ethic and technical improvement over last two years. Will come downhill against run and is diligent with contain responsibilities.

Weaknesses: Can be slow to diagnose and anticipate quarterback's plans. Average reactive athleticism. Doesn't feature the balance or twitch to rocket forward and challenge throws if he's not shadowing his man. Won't always play to his size as a tackler. Dragged 18 yards after a catch against Penn State. Shows some stiffness as an open field tackler and allowed four broken tackles this season. Slow to turn head and find ball on deep throws. Becomes Mr. Grabs if he senses receiver is getting over the top of him or when he's trying to crowd the top of routes. Had four holding and seven pass interference penalties from 2014*-2015.

Scouting report via NFL.com.

Kendall Fuller

Height: 6-feet 1-inch
Weight: 196-pounds

Strengths: Supremely confident and believes he should make the biggest plays on the field. Looks to feast on unsuspecting quarterbacks. Has the feet and twitch to trigger and go when he reads the quarterback's intentions. Takes a direct path to the ball. Ball hawk in the short and intermediate passing game. Logged 34 passes defensed and eight interceptions in 2013 and 2014 combined. Savvy and trusts his instincts. Good coordination from press coverage and can track releases both inside and out. Understands the body game and gets into the chest of receivers while running downfield. Willing tackler who steps downhill and doesn't miss his mark very often.

Weaknesses: Lacking desired size and length for the outside spot. Doesn't have the recovery speed to be able to take as many chances on the pro level. Lacks field discipline. Gambler who will get his knot chopped by double moves and pump fakes. Allowed 16.7 yards per completion when he was fully healthy in 2014. Needs to get better at finding the ball when he's beaten over the top. His play style could lead to early penalty issues. Tried to play through a torn meniscus and ended up shutting it down after the first three games of the season.

Scouting report via NFL.com.

The latest mock draft clearly likes Apple over Fuller, but which prospect stands out to you? Would you go with the upside of Apple, or the pedigree of Fuller, despite the knee injury which had him sit out all but three games in 2015? If the Steelers have their choice, it will be a tough choice, but a good problem to have for a team in desperate need of young talent at the cornerback position.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2016-nfl-mock-draft-pittsburgh-steelers-list-database/2016/2/3/10898056/mock-draft-steelers-first-round-pick-cornerback-kendall-fuller-eli-apple-choice

[Steeldude]

Neither of them sound like 1st round material.

[Drazo85]

Steelers needs:
CB
DL
SS
OL
OLB
Strenght of this draft are DLinemen. Draft one in the first round. It's a need, and talent is going to be there. Only way I would consider drafting a CB is if somehow Hargreaves or Ramsey fall to the 25th pick. Build from threnches, draft top talent not scraps.

[Godfather]

Strenght of this draft are DLinemen. Draft one in the first round. It's a need, and talent is going to be there.


Wouldn't that be an argument for waiting until the second round? If there's a lot of talent available at that position they can get a good player at the second or third round.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Wouldn't that be an argument for waiting until the second round? If there's a lot of talent available at that position they can get a good player at the second or third round.

Exactly my thought. The draft is heavy at DL. There's no reason for us to take one in the first round when we can get a top talent in the 2nd or 3rd.

[Drazo85]

Wouldn't that be an argument for waiting until the second round? If there's a lot of talent available at that position they can get a good player at the second or third round.
Possible. But my logic is one extra talented player is better than two average.

[LLT]

I don't think the Steelers go CB in the first. I think they go D-line, LB or TE in the 1st, 2nd & 3rd

I think we pick up a free agent CB...then pick up a CB prospect in the 2nd or 3rd. Someone like Xavien Howard out of Baylor.

[Shoes]

I think we pick up a free agent CB...then pick up a CB prospect in the 2nd or 3rd. Someone like Xavien Howard out of Baylor.

I agree with the free agent CB, but think a CB or S will come after the 3rd, if at all.

[ALLD]

As long as he is not hyped like Jarvis Jones and then only produces on average instead of at a 1st round level.

[Shoes]

As long as he is not hyped like Jarvis Jones and then only produces on average instead of at a 1st round level.

That is why the Steelers won't take him. There will be other players on the D-line, OLB, TE and OG positions available that will be plug and play ready imo.

[steelerdude15]

While I would like to get Eli in this draft, he might not be available when its our turn to pick.

[hawaiiansteeler]

While I would like to get Eli in this draft, he might not be available when its our turn to pick.

very true, Daniel Jeremiah has Eli Apple going at #9 to Tampa Bay:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/mock-drafts/daniel-jeremiah/275602

[Mojouw]

None of these projections mean much more than a wet fart in a thunderstorm right now. Wake me up when the combine is over. By then teams will have actually studied these prospects and have the underwear Olympics numbers they crave to both over-estimate and under-value all the potential talent. Then we can talk about where these rankings fall out.

[86WARD]

No...and most aren't even close...

[hawaiiansteeler]

The NFL Draft Report's 2016 Cornerback Draft Class Ratings

by Dave-Te' Thomas

https://blog-blogmediainc.netdna-ssl.com/upload/SportsBlogcom/10227766/0500746001453222716_filepicker.jpg

Apple could be the shutdown cornerback the Steelers have been craving for since Ike Taylor retired

The early first round dark horse candidate could be Ohio State’s Eli Apple, currently drawing attention from corner-needy Pittsburgh, who will either need to trade up or hope that the red-shirt sophomore falls to them with the 25th overall pick. The first thing you notice about this Buckeye is his natural playmaking instincts. He understands how receivers are trying to attack coverage and he is a mater at reading quarterbacks' eyes when having to drop into zone coverage. He also does an excellent job of mid-pointing high-low routes.

Apple is an explosive, quick-twitch athlete with a sudden closing burst, especially when receivers catch the ball in front of him. He possesses that second gear needed to track the ball downfield and he’s fast enough to recover when gets caught out of position. Thanks to his fluid hips, he can make the smooth transition when forced to change directions quickly. When he stays under control and keeps his knees bent, is a good tackler in space.

The Buckeyes cornerback can consistently break up passes when in position, as he also has the athleticism to reach around the receiver and disrupt the action without committing the penalty. When he breaks up those passes, more often it is the result of violent hits right as the ball arrives. While not a valid ball thief, he does have the natural hands to reach out and pluck the ball to make the tough interception.

http://nfldraftreport.sportsblog.com/posts/10982555/nfl-teams-looking-to-corner-the-2016-draft-market.html

[hawaiiansteeler]

The cornerback position isn't much better, in terms of the Steelers' depth chart. William Gay, Antwon Blake and Brandon Boykin are all set to become free agents, leaving only Ross Cockrell, Doran Grant and Senquez Golson as returning cornerbacks with a familiarity with the Steelers' system. A fan favorite for the position the team should target in the first round of the Draft, there is plenty of talent to be had at cornerback in this year's crop of prospects.

Mayock's Top 5 Cornerbacks:

1. Jalen Ramsey, Florida State
2. Vernon Hargreaves, Florida
3. Mackensie Alexander, Clemson
4. Eli Apple, Ohio State
5. Cyrus Jones, Alabama

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2016-nfl-mock-drafts-profiles-video-clips-highlights-steelers-analysis-breakdowns-news/2016/2/11/10965452/mike-mayocks-position-rankings-reveal-quality-options-for-the

[Nadroj 20]

Didn't I read somewhere that Apple is a risky pick? Poor work ethic?

No this guy has a really good work ethic.

[hawaiiansteeler]

3(89) Pittsburgh Steelers: William Jackson, CB, Houston

Pittsburgh's secondary is horrible right now, but there's lots of potential with that unit if the team can find a No. 1 corner to play across from Ross Cockrell.

Pick change; previously Artie Burns, CB

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2016_3.php#ROsrMSU0ypZO8Mfj.99

[86WARD]

I highly doubt they will find a guy in the draft that can come in in 2016 and start opposite Cockrell and be successful.

[Count Steeler]

I highly doubt they will find a guy in the draft that can come in in 2016 and start opposite Cockrell and be successful.

Does not have to be successful, just has to suck less than Blake.

[86WARD]

Does not have to be successful, just has to suck less than Blake.

Touche.

[teegre]

Does not have to be successful, just has to suck less than Blake.

Exactly!!!

That's why I'm all for actually waiting to get a CB in R3 or R4. The new CB doesn't have to be god... just better than Blake.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Does not have to be successful, just has to suck less than Blake.

sucking less than Blake merely means you're a little taller than a midget.

wouldn't it be nice to actually have a good CB?

[Count Steeler]

sucking less than Blake merely means you're a little taller than a midget.

wouldn't it be nice to actually have a good CB?

I am keeping my expectations low so that I won't be disappointed when we draft a less than textbook CB. I'm hoping the Steelers wake up from whatever curse they are under when it comes to the secondary. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than to continue to bang my head against a wall.

[tube517]

I am keeping my expectations low so that I won't be disappointed when we draft a less than textbook CB. I'm hoping the Steelers wake up from whatever curse they are under when it comes to the secondary. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than to continue to bang my head against a wall.

Took the words right from my mouth.

Why should I continually be let down and get mad at draft or free agent time when we all know they will consider Gay and Blake as their "prized" free agent signings for the secondary as well as no first round pick on a DB.

[hawaiiansteeler]

image: http://www.walterfootball.com/images/fball/steelersb_logo.gif

1(25) Pittsburgh Steelers: Eli Apple, CB, Ohio State

The Steelers have to upgrade their cornerbacks and get a replacement for William Gay.

In 2015, Apple recorded one interception, eight passes broken up and 33 tackles. He had some coverage lapses early on, but played better to close out the year. Apple has a good skill set and lots of upside to develop. He was very impressive for the Buckeyes in 2014 down the stretch of their title run, recording 53 tackles with three interceptions and 10 passes broken up on the year. The 6-foot-1, 200-pounder looks like he has No. 1-corner potential.

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2016charlie_1.php#2X6M4RSIPlxk1x6i.99

[B&GFever]

funny how Fuller is " to small" and Apple is just right .... same height and 4 pounds different in size ....

an example of how generic some of this stuff is ...

for the record I will take Fuller over Apple 10 times out of 10 , Apple is to grabby for me and could be a penalty magnet at the next level ( waits for snide comment )

[polamalubeast]

After seeing several mock draft, the majority think the Steelers are going to take Eli Apple......

[Psycho Ward 86]

is Apple expected to test well at the combine?

[hawaiiansteeler]

Heading Into NFL Scouting Combine, Top Prospects Pittsburgh Steelers Should Consider In NFL Draft

Feb 22, 2016

http://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/503120284/960x0.jpg?fit=scale

GLENDALE, AZ – JANUARY 01: Defensive player of the game Eli Apple #13 of the Ohio State Buckeyes holds the MVP trophy after the BattleFrog Fiesta Bowl at the University of Phoenix Stadium on January 1, 2016 in Glendale, Arizona. The Ohio State Buckeyes beat the Notre Dame Fighting Irish 44-28.

Eli Apple, Ohio State CB

Here’s a trivia question for you: who was the player that intercepted Marcus Mariota’s final collegiate pass?

You guessed it. Eli Apple.

At 6’1”, Apple is an important two inches taller than Alexander. He combines that size with strength that will allow him to compete with the NFL’s best at the next level. With 86 tackles and 7.5 tackles for loss in his two years with the Buckeyes, he’s proven himself to be a capable tackler in the run game as well. NFL.com’s Lance Zierlein elaborated on his potential

Good height, weight and arm length combination. Clean footwork in transition with natural ability to mirror and match from press coverage. Won’t open hips early and rarely turned around off line of scrimmage. Has foot quickness in short spaces to maintain feel for his man. Extremely competitive when ball is in the air.

He showed off some of his playmaking skills, saving the game versus Indiana:

Looking at their recent history, the Steelers are comfortable with Ohio State players. They took Cameron Heyward in the first-round of 2011, Ryan Shazier in 2014 and cornerback Doran Grant in the fourth-round last year.

Apple is another player who would fill a tremendous need on their roster if available at No. 25.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/zachpetersel/2016/02/22/heading-into-nfl-scouting-combine-top-prospects-pittsburgh-steelers-should-consider-in-nfl-draft/#167a127a2e2e

[hawaiiansteeler]

Eli Apple ran an official 4.40 time, pretty darn fast for a CB over 6' tall and weighing 200 lbs.

[BlackAndGold]

If there was a CB the Steelers would truly take in round 1 for the first time since 1997, it'd be Apple Imo. He has the Size, Ohio State(lol) upside, youth(wont turn 21 until August) but, he's very raw, and probably wont help much early on since he'll be an automatic 1st down for offense's cause of pass interference.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Walter Football's latest mock draft: (updated 3/3)

1(25) Pittsburgh Steelers: Eli Apple, CB, Ohio State

The Steelers haven't selected a first-round cornerback in a very long time, but that's exactly what everyone said about them and an edge rusher, and the Chiefs and a corner, and the Cowboys and a lineman. These things change, and Pittsburgh's current status in terms of its secondary could prompt the front office to go against recent trends.

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2016_1.php#CZdiom4UdvJ6BfTU.99

[hawaiiansteeler]

Todd McShay's latest Mock Draft 3.0:

1. Tennessee - Laremy Tunsil T Mississippi
2. Cleveland - Carson Wentz QB Heaven
3. San Diego - DeForest Buckner DE Oregon
4. Dallas - Joey Bosa DE Ohio St.
5. Jacksonville - Jalen Ramsey CB Florida St.
6. Baltimore - Ronnie Stanley T Notre Dame
7. San Francisco - Jared Goff QB California
8. Miami - Myles Jack OLB UCLA
9. Tampa Bay - Vernon Hargreaves CB Florida
10. N.Y. Giants - Ezekiel Elliott RB Ohio St.
11. Chicago - Shaq Lawson DE Clemson
12. New Orleans - A'Shawn Robinson DT Alabama
13. Philadelphia - Jack Conklin T Michigan St.
14. Oakland - Eli Apple CB Ohio St.
15. Los Angeles - Laquon Treadwell WR Mississippi
16. Detroit - Taylor Decker T Ohio St.
17. Atlanta - Darron Lee OLB Ohio St.
18. Indianapolis - Leonard Floyd OLB Georgia
19. Buffalo - Sheldon Rankins DT Louisville
20. N.Y. Jets - Noah Spence DE Eastern Kentucky
21. Washington - Jarran Reed DT Alabama
22. Houston - Vernon Butler DT Louisiana Tech
23. Minnesota - Vonn Bell S Ohio St.
24. Cincinnati - Josh Doctson WR TCU
25. Pittsburgh - Mackensie Alexander CB Clemson
26. Seattle - Robert Nkemdiche DT Mississippi
27. Green Bay - Reggie Ragland ILB Alabama
28. Kansas City - Chris Jones DT Mississippi St.
29. Arizona - Kamalei Correa OLB Boise St.
30. Carolina - Emmanuel Ogbah DE Oklahoma St.
31. Denver - Jason Spriggs T Indiana

Best prospects remaining

1. Hunter Henry, TE, Arkansas
2. Andrew Billings, DT, Baylor
3. Will Fuller, WR, Notre Dame
4. Paxton Lynch, QB, Memphis
5. Germain Ifedi, OT, Texas A&M
6. Jaylon Smith, OLB, Notre Dame
7. Adolphus Washington, DT, Ohio State
8. Connor Cook, QB, Michigan State
9. Austin Johnson, DT, Penn State
10. Michael Thomas, WR, Ohio State
11. Kevin Dodd, DE, Clemson
12. Kendall Fuller, CB, Virginia Tech
13. Karl Joseph, S, West Virginia
14. Kenny Clark, DT, UCLA
15. Corey Coleman, WR, Baylor
16. Ryan Kelly, OC, Alabama
17. William Jackson III, CB, Houston
18. Hassan Ridgeway, DT, Texas
19. Jerell Adams, TE, South Carolina
20. Christian Hackenberg, QB, Penn State

[SteelMember]

ELI APPLE: FALCONS COACH ASKED ME IF I'M GAY DURING MEETING

http://abc7ny.com/sports/eli-apple-falcons-coach-asked-me-if-im-gay-during-meeting/1231111/

[Cyphon25]

ELI APPLE: FALCONS COACH ASKED ME IF I'M GAY DURING MEETING

http://abc7ny.com/sports/eli-apple-falcons-coach-asked-me-if-im-gay-during-meeting/1231111/

I don't see the big deal in asking the question. Now obviously if he wasn't going to draft the guy or something because of that I could see it being an issue, but just asking a question to potentially catch someone off guard or something....What is the big deal?

[hawaiiansteeler]

ELI APPLE: FALCONS COACH ASKED ME IF I'M GAY DURING MEETING

http://abc7ny.com/sports/eli-apple-falcons-coach-asked-me-if-im-gay-during-meeting/1231111/

well, an Apple is in the fruit family...

[Psycho Ward 86]

I don't see the big deal in asking the question. Now obviously if he wasn't going to draft the guy or something because of that I could see it being an issue, but just asking a question to potentially catch someone off guard or something....What is the big deal?

well if you look at some of the questions prospects have said they've been asked in the past there are some really stupid ones. i mean really really stupid, to a pint where being caught off guard will result in no answer thats going to hlep you evaluate the prospect

[fansince'76]

well, an Apple is in the fruit family...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg5YqsRRlwk&feature=youtu.be

:chuckle:

[Cyphon25]

well if you look at some of the questions prospects have said they've been asked in the past there are some really stupid ones. i mean really really stupid, to a pint where being caught off guard will result in no answer thats going to hlep you evaluate the prospect

I don't disagree. I guess my point is more just that knowing how dumb some of the stuff asked is, this doesn't really seem odd to me.

[cold-hard-steel]

Does anybody really know what our defensive scheme is really going to be ? We may not even need a corner in the first round . I think people need to be reminded we are a defense in transition.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Does anybody really know what our defensive scheme is really going to be ? We may not even need a corner in the first round . I think people need to be reminded we are a defense in transition.

It doesn't matter what our defensive scheme is. We don't currently have anyone on the roster that's capable of being a #1 CB. We're probably not going to get that in free agency so that leaves the draft.

[86WARD]

Jacksonville is going to go out and spend boatloads of money...some of it on a CB...its hard to mock a CB in on them at this time.

[cold-hard-steel]

I guess more what i'm trying to project is are you focused on pressure to the qb , or protect against the pass . Scheme means everything . You can not move two ways at one time . Well maybe you can but i just ain't learned it yet .That would be a beautiful thing to witness. When this defense does find an identity , i hope i'm around to see the mayhem.

[cold-hard-steel]

To farther my thinking process,if you build and set up shop to stop the run,you have an advantage.That same shop that stops the run is imagined to get to the QB. If you can not accomplish that , then it would be very advisable to have players who can protect against the pass .I am just not clear on the scheme of the new defense.

[cold-hard-steel]

It doesn't matter what our defensive scheme is. We don't currently have anyone on the roster that's capable of being a #1 CB. We're probably not going to get that in free agency so that leaves the draft.

How on Gods green earth do you know that ? Saynkez ain'''''''''t available? I spelled it that way for reasoning that goes waaaaay back.

[cold-hard-steel]

It doesn't matter what our defensive scheme is. We don't currently have anyone on the roster that's capable of being a #1 CB. We're probably not going to get that in free agency so that leaves the draft.

You need to start scheming man. Get to it quick as yo can too.

[teegre]

Jacksonville is going to go out and spend boatloads of money...some of it on a CB...its hard to mock a CB in on them at this time.

Ramsey is a FS.

He has played CB, and he prefers to play CB... but, he is head & shoulders better as a FS.

[polamalubeast]

Does anybody really know what our defensive scheme is really going to be ? We may not even need a corner in the first round . I think people need to be reminded we are a defense in transition.



The talent in the secondary is very important.Just looking at the last 3 super bowl champions, they all had a very good(or great) secondary.

[steel striker]

I don't watch alot of college but, i would to see them draft a CB who is over 5'10.

[Mojouw]

I don't see the big deal in asking the question. Now obviously if he wasn't going to draft the guy or something because of that I could see it being an issue, but just asking a question to potentially catch someone off guard or something....What is the big deal?

Because it is fundamentally offensive and ignorant? Kinda like when the Dolphins asked Dez Bryant if his mom was crack-whore or whatever.

I mean if we can just justify anything by saying it was to catch a prospect off-guard; then a standard combine question would be "So. Heard you have a micro penis and don't know how to satisfy a woman. Also, we banged your gal last night. Thoughts?"

Sorry. I know this is way off topic. But we shouldn't just rationalize away people being ignorant. To be clear, I mean the Falcons' coaches.

[BlackAndGold]

Ramsey is a FS.

He has played CB, and he prefers to play CB... but, he is head & shoulders better as a FS.

Doubt he gets pasted Dallas at #4. Just hope he doesn't fall to Baltimore

[teegre]

Doubt he gets pasted Dallas at #4. Just hope he doesn't fall to Baltimore

Yep.

I've told my San Diego friends that they need to draft this guy. They all want Bosa (which I kind of get), but I keep telling them that there is one blue chip DB in this draft (Ramsey), and that they could still get a stud DE at the top of R2. They don't want to listen to me.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Doubt he gets pasted Dallas at #4. Just hope he doesn't fall to Baltimore

and thats what terrifies me about the ravens having a down season. pretty much all but guarantees that they draft a monster that terrorizes us for the next decade in the offseason

[BlackAndGold]

and thats what terrifies me about the ravens having a down season. pretty much all but guarantees that they draft a monster that terrorizes us for the next decade in the offseason

if they lose Kelechi Osemele in FA, and seems like they will, Ronnie Stanley would seem like the favorite for their pick. Paying Flacco all that money, they have to protect him.

Agreed, The Ravens were most likely going to bounce back anyway, now with a top 6 pick, it'll speed of the process faster. (their 2015 draft wasn't that impressive, but still too early to tell)

[hawaiiansteeler]

if they lose Kelechi Osemele in FA, and seems like they will, Ronnie Stanley would seem like the favorite for their pick. Paying Flacco all that money, they have to protect him.

Agreed, The Ravens were most likely going to bounce back anyway, now with a top 6 pick, it'll speed of the process faster. (their 2015 draft wasn't that impressive, but still too early to tell)

Ronnie Stanley would make sense for the Ravens, they're not expected to bring back LT Eugene Monroe and may very well lose Osemele in free agency...

[Rotorhead]

Well now that we have locked up Gay locked up our draft comes a little more into focus, I am leaning more towards a DL pick now as there should be great value at our pick (top 10 talent in other years). Then use the second and third on a CB/S and our defense will be solid for the foreseeable future (of course providing they pan out)

[hawaiiansteeler]

2016 NFL Draft: BTSC 5-Round Mock Draft: Post-Combine Edition

Mar 8, 2016

25. Pittsburgh Steelers: Eli Apple CB, Ohio State

Team needs: CB/SS/LT/LG/DL/QB2

2016 free agents: Kelvin Beachum, Ramon Foster, Steve McLendon, Antwon Blake, Sean Spence, Brandon Boykin, Will Allen, Bruce Gradkowski

"Oh no, not another Eli Apple to Steelers mock draft." Well before we get into the pick lets break down the needs and who the Steelers may be interested in here.

Outside of the obvious needs for help in the secondary the Steelers could find themselves having to rebuild the left side of their offensive line depending on the free agency of Kelvin Beachum and Ramon Foster. And after the retirement of long-time Roethlisberger safety-valve Heath Miller, the Steelers could be in the market for a TE as well, of course that depends on their faith in 2015 5th round pick Jesse James.

But with the offense fully loaded this pick will likely be used on defense. On the defensive line the Steelers could use an upgrade over free agent Steve McLendon at NT as well as depth behind Cam Heyward and Stephon Tuitt. If they were to go that route there are several very good options available, including Alabama standouts A'Shawn Robinson and Jarran Reed, as well as the vastly underrated Kenny Clark from UCLA. In the aforementioned woeful secondary the Steelers will likely re-sign Willie Gay and Will Allen, having already re-signed Robert Golden, with an outside chance of Brandon Boykin, so while there is absolutely room for an upgrade it's not an absolute necessity.

Looking over the prospects that are available there are several that the Steelers would be highly interested in. It's unlikely that the Steelers will find a long-term replacement for Will Allen here, the value simply isn't there. There are rumors that several teams at the end of the first round are very high on Florida's Keanu Neal, and there are also mentions that the Steelers may be one of those teams, but there are several others players available with higher grades than Neal. The realistic pool should come down to Robinson, Reed, and CB's Eli Apple, William Jackson III, and Kendall Fuller.

Given that the Steelers have two very capable defensive linemen in Heyward and Tuitt, and the fact that they go into their nickel defense quite often, featuring only two down linemen, it may not make sense to draft a rotational player with their first round pick. Of course that could change if someone like Andrew Billings were available.

It seems as though, after not having spent a first round pick on a CB since Chad Scott was taken 24th overall in 1997, the Steelers will finally take a cornerback with their first pick. The question now becomes which one?

That very question has become highly contested here on BTSC. After a phenomenal showing at the combine, William Jackson is now getting first round consideration. He's got the length and speed, but played against lower level competition. Eli Apple is raw but has the upside and the OSU connection. Unfortunately because of a knee injury that robbed him of a majority of his final season Kendall Fuller was unable to participate at the combine, and we don't know whether we'll be getting the 2014 Kendall Fuller or something else.

In my personal opinion I believe that, given the choice in front of them, the Steelers would take Eli Apple. Never mind the whole Ohio State thing, Apple has got the size, the speed, and the experience playing in big moments and against top quality competition. Eli Apple also has experience playing in some zone concepts. And as a redshirt sophomore he's also got youth and less wear on his body. William Jackson may have been the combine darling as far as CB's go, but Apple wasn't far behind. He checked in at a solid 6-foot-even, and 199 pounds. After posting a very respectable 4.40 40 time, Eli Apple looked very fluid in the drills. However he is not without his flaws, as Apple is still considered raw and needs to refine his technique. It's unlikely that, because of the complexity of the Steelers defense, that any DB drafted is going to contribute much in his rookie season.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2016-nfl-mock-draft-pittsburgh-steelers-list-database/2016/3/8/11125956/2016-nfl-draft-btsc-5-round-mock-draft-post-combine-edition

[hawaiiansteeler]

Todd McShay 2016 Mock Draft 4.0: Steelers Select Ohio State CB Eli Apple 25th Overall

BY DAVE BRYAN MARCH 24, 2016

ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay has now released his latest mock of the first two rounds of the 2016 NFL Draft on Thursday and after previously having the Pittsburgh Steelers selecting Clemson cornerback Mackensie Alexander with the 25th overall pick, he now has them picking Ohio State cornerback Eli Apple in his latest version, which is his fourth of the offseason.

McShay writes of Apple being mocked to the Steelers:

At this point, all 21 players with first-round grades are off the board, so every pick could feel like a slight reach. Apple’s tape is good but not elite. While his 4.40 40 speed is a positive, he needs to improve his technique in press coverage. He’s a willing participant against the run, which is especially important in the AFC North, and teams will like his long, 6-foot-1 frame.

While Apple being mocked to the Steelers certainly isn’t anything new so far this offseason, it should be noted that McShay now has the Ohio State product as the third defensive back selected in the first round behind only Jalen Ramsey and Vernon Hargreaves III respectively. Additionally, McShay now has Alexander sliding into the second round.

We have already talked about Apple quite a bit in previous mock draft posts, so there’s really no need to regurgitate all of that information. The Steelers were present for Apple’s pro day so now we’ll wait and see if they wind up bringing him to Pittsburgh next month for a pre-draft visit.

In the second round of his latest mock, McShay has the Steelers selecting UCLA defensive tackle Kenny Clark with the 58th overall pick in this year’s draft and here is what he had to say about that choice for Pittsburgh.

Clark has the quickness and agility to create some disruption in the backfield, and he’s nimble enough to execute twists and stunts. After having just one sack in his first 26 games, he added six last season in 13 contests.

Clark, who measured in at the 2016 NFL Scouting Combine at 6025, 314-pounds, registered 74 total tackles in 2015 to go along with 6 sacks, of which 3 of them came in UCLA’s win over Washington state, according to ESPN.com. According to numbers compile by STATS, Clark registered 18 total pressures last season in addition to having 6 stuffs and 43 run disruptions.

Alex Kozora has his breakdown of Clark scheduled to be released Friday morning so be on the lookout for that.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/todd-mcshay-2016-mock-draft-4-0-steelers-select-ohio-state-cb-eli-apple-25th-overall/

[steelreserve]

If the choice was between Alexander and Apple at #25, for me it would be Alexander and I wouldn't even need a half-second to decide. By all accounts, Apple is a guy with potential who has some flaws that need coaching, and what's been happening with our DBs for years is that they keep the flaws and don't improve. Get the guy who's the more complete player off the bat.

Now, if it was between Billings and Alexander, that is a hell of a tough choice. I'd probably be inclined to go with Billings, because the opportunities to get that kind of player are just so rare, and because we still have Golson who is basically an extra second-round pick this year.

If that was the choice but we could be guaranteed of getting Clark in R2, that would be a nice consolation prize and I'd take Alexander. But I am not fully sold on the idea that Clark is going to be there.

Honestly I think this ends up being settled for us by two of the three players (Alexander, Apple, Billings) being off the board by the time we pick, or maybe even all three.

[hawaiiansteeler]

PITTSBURGH STEELERS

First-round spot: 25

Mock drafts:

» Daniel Jeremiah: Mackensie Alexander, CB, Clemson
» Charles Davis: Eli Apple, CB, Ohio State
» Bucky Brooks: Eli Apple, CB, Ohio State
» Lance Zierlein: William Jackson III, CB, Houston
» Chad Reuter: Jarran Reed, DT, Alabama

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... -nfl-teams

[Born2Steel]

Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 25: Andrew Billings (http://www.google.com/search?q=Andrew+Billings+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), DT, Baylor (A)
Round 2 Pick 27: Vernon Butler (http://www.google.com/search?q=Vernon+Butler+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), DT, Louisiana Tech (A+)
Round 3 Pick 26: Miles Killebrew (http://www.google.com/search?q=Miles+Killebrew+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), SS, Southern Utah (B+)
Round 4 Pick 25: Jordan Jenkins (http://www.google.com/search?q=Jordan+Jenkins+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), OLB, Georgia (A+)
Round 6 Pick 45 (COMP): KeiVarae Russell (http://www.google.com/search?q=KeiVarae+Russell+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), CB, Notre Dame (B)
Round 7 Pick 8: Wendell Smallwood (http://www.google.com/search?q=Wendell+Smallwood+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), RB, West Virginia (A+)
Round 7 Pick 25: Nate Sudfeld (http://www.google.com/search?q=Nate+Sudfeld+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), QB, Indiana (B)

[Rotorhead]

Latest McShay draft has Apple #1 and Kenny Clark at #2, I could live with that. Shores up 2 of our biggest needs.

[Dwinsgames]

Latest McShay draft has Apple #1 and Kenny Clark at #2, I could live with that. Shores up 2 of our biggest needs.


Clark is a very good player , but for me he is more of a 4-3 DT than he will ever be a 3-4 nose and we will be limited like we have been with McLendon and forced to play subpackage football most downs , he may have the ability to slide out to end to give our starters there a breather but is better suited in a 4-3 inside .

I want a nose who can play 2-3 downs and get us out of the 2-4-5 nickel and back into a 3-3-5 where we can generate more pressure from our nickle packages .

But I realize I may be in the minority in this logic

[Born2Steel]

It seems pretty clear that the days of calling the Pittsburgh Steelers a “3-4 team” are over. Over the course of the last two seasons, we’ve seen a steady decline in the amount of base 3-4 defense the Steelers have played. This isn’t all their doing as the increase in passing in the NFL has necessitated this as much as anything.
Having said that, Pittsburgh must be progressive in terms of their roster when it comes to these changes. Trying to maintain a 3-4 roster while only playing it around 25 percent of the time isn’t smart business. So what we are seeing is Pittsburgh jettisoning some the more traditional guys (like Steve McLendon and Cam Thomas), and them moving toward a very different look on defense.
But what would a full time “nickel” or 4-2-5 defense look like for the Steelers? And how much adjustment is still needed to make it work?

Entire article is on the yahoo home page....I hate yahoo news but thought this one relevant.

[Dwinsgames]

It seems pretty clear that the days of calling the Pittsburgh Steelers a “3-4 team” are over. Over the course of the last two seasons, we’ve seen a steady decline in the amount of base 3-4 defense the Steelers have played. This isn’t all their doing as the increase in passing in the NFL has necessitated this as much as anything.
Having said that, Pittsburgh must be progressive in terms of their roster when it comes to these changes. Trying to maintain a 3-4 roster while only playing it around 25 percent of the time isn’t smart business. So what we are seeing is Pittsburgh jettisoning some the more traditional guys (like Steve McLendon and Cam Thomas), and them moving toward a very different look on defense.
But what would a full time “nickel” or 4-2-5 defense look like for the Steelers? And how much adjustment is still needed to make it work?

Entire article is on the yahoo home page....I hate yahoo news but thought this one relevant.

its a smoke and mirrors article . no team ( with any sense ) will play a heavy portion of a scheme they do not have the proper pieces to play it at a high level ( unless the team just sucks and does not have the pieces for any scheme to work as intended ).

we do not see a large portion of base 3-4 because we have lacked the proper Nose not because of any other reason . it would be mighty coincidental if Hampton last year was also the demise of the scheme for any reason other than they now lacked the proper piece in the middle of the line .

it has ZERO to do with its now a passing league . the 3-4 worked very well vs the " run n shoot offense " who was more wide open than any type of current " spread formations " used today and was / is the basis of these formations we see today .

articles written by guys who do not understand the intricate details of the game and passed off as the gospel to hungry sports fans who also do not for the most part recognize them for what they are is in my opinion disgraceful and lacks journalistic integrity

there is a handful of guys on the planet that can play the nose and be disruptive in doing so , give me 1 of those men and put him in black and gold and you will see just how "out of date" a 3-4 is vs the pass as a base defense

[Dwinsgames]

here is a very good article to relate to my post above , and note what killed the "run n shoot" The Zone Blitz and that "zone blitz was from a true 3-4 with a real NT

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2007/07/what-killed-run-and-shoot.html

[Born2Steel]

Where did you get that from the paragraph I posted?

The way I read it...The Steelers have been a base 3-4 defense for many years. For whatever reasons(insert opinions), are playing in that 3-4 base only a quarter of the defensive snaps. So, 3 quarters of those snaps are played from a different base, defensive scheme. What is that scheme? The 4-2-5? The 2-4-5? The article even asks the question,"how much adjustment is still needed?". Our defense played very well vs the run last season, very poorly vs the pass. Obvious changes are being made to the Steelers defense. This is a pretty exciting time for the Steelers defense, IMO. I see major changes coming.

[teegre]

Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 25: Andrew Billings (http://www.google.com/search?q=Andrew+Billings+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), DT, Baylor (A)
Round 2 Pick 27: Vernon Butler (http://www.google.com/search?q=Vernon+Butler+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), DT, Louisiana Tech (A+)
Round 3 Pick 26: Miles Killebrew (http://www.google.com/search?q=Miles+Killebrew+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), SS, Southern Utah (B+)
Round 4 Pick 25: Jordan Jenkins (http://www.google.com/search?q=Jordan+Jenkins+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), OLB, Georgia (A+)
Round 6 Pick 45 (COMP): KeiVarae Russell (http://www.google.com/search?q=KeiVarae+Russell+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), CB, Notre Dame (B)
Round 7 Pick 8: Wendell Smallwood (http://www.google.com/search?q=Wendell+Smallwood+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), RB, West Virginia (A+)
Round 7 Pick 25: Nate Sudfeld (http://www.google.com/search?q=Nate+Sudfeld+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), QB, Indiana (B)

Billings and Butler would be a home run and a grand slam. If that does occur, I'd go to a 4-2 alignment like this... with Butler rotating with two middle guys.

Tuitt
Heyward
Billings
Dupree

Timmons
Shazier

Heck... I might even go with a 5-2.

Tuitt
Heyward
Billings
Butler
Dupree

Timmons
Shazier

[teegre]

Clark is a very good player , but for me he is more of a 4-3 DT than he will ever be a 3-4 nose and we will be limited like we have been with McLendon and forced to play subpackage football most downs , he may have the ability to slide out to end to give our starters there a breather but is better suited in a 4-3 inside .

I want a nose who can play 2-3 downs and get us out of the 2-4-5 nickel and back into a 3-3-5 where we can generate more pressure from our nickle packages .

But I realize I may be in the minority in this logic

I disagree about Clark. I think his primary position is a NT, with the possibility of sliding out to play DE.

I like him a LOT... because, I think he's a true NT. What makes him different than most is that I feel that he can indeed be that rotational guy at DE. He was a wrestler; so, he's good with leverage and using his hands and such.

[Dwinsgames]

Where did you get that from the paragraph I posted?

The way I read it...The Steelers have been a base 3-4 defense for many years. For whatever reasons(insert opinions), are playing in that 3-4 base only a quarter of the defensive snaps. So, 3 quarters of those snaps are played from a different base, defensive scheme. What is that scheme? The 4-2-5? The 2-4-5? The article even asks the question,"how much adjustment is still needed?". Our defense played very well vs the run last season, very poorly vs the pass. Obvious changes are being made to the Steelers defense. This is a pretty exciting time for the Steelers defense, IMO. I see major changes coming.

we was gashed many times vs the run last year as well and would have been more often had the pass defense not been so bad , teams have a habit of attacking of attacking the weakest link of a defense ..

again we do not play the base 3-4 as much because the key piece is missing ( the penetrating nose tackle) you can disagree all you like but it will not change the fact that McLendon is not /was not /never will be a penetrating force as a NT and quite frankly without that key piece the 3-4 will not work other than 1st down and if they pass on first down you are in effect at a disadvantage ...

with a penetrating NT where you can effectively run a zone blitz you can and will be effective if your linebackers can create pressure ... nothing has changed it has always been that way and will always be that way but you have to have the pieces ...


what makes the 3-4 work is the nose tackle he is the foundation of the unit

what we are seeing from today's offenses is nothing more than a glorified version of the run and shoot concept and the death of the run and shoot was a pressure 3-4 with the zone blitz .... the concept has not changed

[Born2Steel]

we was gashed many times vs the run last year as well and would have been more often had the pass defense not been so bad , teams have a habit of attacking of attacking the weakest link of a defense ..

again we do not play the base 3-4 as much because the key piece is missing ( the penetrating nose tackle) you can disagree all you like but it will not change the fact that McLendon is not /was not /never will be a penetrating force as a NT and quite frankly without that key piece the 3-4 will not work other than 1st down and if they pass on first down you are in effect at a disadvantage ...

with a penetrating NT where you can effectively run a zone blitz you can and will be effective if your linebackers can create pressure ... nothing has changed it has always been that way and will always be that way but you have to have the pieces ...


what makes the 3-4 work is the nose tackle he is the foundation of the unit

what we are seeing from today's offenses is nothing more than a glorified version of the run and shoot concept and the death of the run and shoot was a pressure 3-4 with the zone blitz .... the concept has not changed

Right...so using your words, 'if the pieces are not there'. Now, what defense do you play? Where are we now, heading in to the draft, with the players we have? We cannot run a 3-4, per your reasons, therefore, are becoming more of a what? I don't think we are heading back toward the traditional 3-4 scheme, do you? We may, depending on who we get in this draft and their skill set. But we are in no way locked in to being a 3-4 defense any longer.

Nobody is disagreeing that we have no effective NT. That seems fairly obvious to everyone.

- - - Updated - - -


Billings and Butler would be a home run and a grand slam. If that does occur, I'd go to a 4-2 alignment like this... with Butler rotating with two middle guys.

Tuitt
Heyward
Billings
Dupree

Timmons
Shazier

Heck... I might even go with a 5-2.

Tuitt
Heyward
Billings
Butler
Dupree

Timmons
Shazier

These mock machines are so pliable. If played enough times you can eventually get 3-5 first round draft picks, because teams will make unreasonable trades. I like to just do a straight forward, without trades, and see who falls to the picks. Stupid, but fun.

[Dwinsgames]

Right...so using your words, 'if the pieces are not there'. Now, what defense do you play? Where are we now, heading in to the draft, with the players we have? We cannot run a 3-4, per your reasons, therefore, are becoming more of a what? I don't think we are heading back toward the traditional 3-4 scheme, do you? We may, depending on who we get in this draft and their skill set. But we are in no way locked in to being a 3-4 defense any longer.

Nobody is disagreeing that we have no effective NT. That seems fairly obvious to everyone.

- - - Updated - - -



.


1 draft pick could change everything .....

[hawaiiansteeler]

1 draft pick could change everything .....

let's say we don't go NT in Round 1.

which NTs in later rounds would you be happy with?

[Mojouw]

I think we are all being a bit guilty of letting nostalgia cloud our viewpoints. I remember Hampton being a great NT, but we are all talking about him like he was some sort of berserker Norse God on Sundays. I mean he was good, but not a one man NT wrecking crew. He could be and was - once he got pissed about something and needed to prove a point, but it wasn't every snap.

Further, "Penetrating" NT might be overstating the foundation of the zone-blitz 3-4 a bit. Traditionally, that role was to simply stand over the center and then force a guard to help in moving you at all. Think Ted Washington. Hell, in his youth (Hampton's that is), Lebeau was infamous for dropping Hampton in to pass coverage (the zone part of zone blitz) - not much penetration by the NT there. Penetration by the DT closest in alignment to the center has always been more of a key feature in a "Tampa 2" style - think Warren Sapp.

I also have to quibble a bit with today's spread offenses being just a snazzy run and shoot. Yes, they are related and have some sort of philosophical link - but they are not the same. Run and shoot was always a bit of gimmick. The spread offenses (and I don't mean that zone read crap with a running QB - I mean what NE runs and Chip Kelly when it works) of today are much more viable because the emergence of freakish athletes at the TE position allow for teams to implement spread concepts and not get their QB killed.

ALso, the 3-4 zone blitz, while it may have been effective against aspects of the run and shoot (and not always - Warren Moon's Oilers lit up some damn good 3-4 Steelers defenses in his day) it was really designed more to attack and force mistakes from those classic West Coast short passing attacks. Hence the focus on "tackling the catch". Don't let 3 yard slants turn in to house calls. Get that back on the wheel route on the ground, etc. Force a West Coast team to complete 10-12 passes per drive in order to score points. In theory, expose a team to pass pressure a dozen times per drive and they will make critical mistakes leading to sacks or turnovers. Extra Possessions for your team and the route is on.

Just some random opinions as I wait for the Badgers to lose in the Sweet Sixteen.

[Dwinsgames]

let's say we don't go NT in Round 1.

which NTs in later rounds would you be happy with?

Vernon Butler could potentially slide to round 2 , Austin Johnson is another guy I like a lot ..

Javon Hargrave / Mallek Collins a little later rd 3 or 4 ..


forgot to mention , Teams who sleep on Antwan Woods will be teams making a big mistake , most have him as a later round guy but he is stout , compact and may have the most violent hands of all the DT in this draft and he can penetrate well and commands a double team ... if you get some free time check him out
- - - Updated - - -


I think we are all being a bit guilty of letting nostalgia cloud our viewpoints. I remember Hampton being a great NT, but we are all talking about him like he was some sort of berserker Norse God on Sundays. I mean he was good, but not a one man NT wrecking crew. He could be and was - once he got pissed about something and needed to prove a point, but it wasn't every snap.

Further, "Penetrating" NT might be overstating the foundation of the zone-blitz 3-4 a bit. Traditionally, that role was to simply stand over the center and then force a guard to help in moving you at all. Think Ted Washington. Hell, in his youth (Hampton's that is), Lebeau was infamous for dropping Hampton in to pass coverage (the zone part of zone blitz) - not much penetration by the NT there. Penetration by the DT closest in alignment to the center has always been more of a key feature in a "Tampa 2" style - think Warren Sapp.

I also have to quibble a bit with today's spread offenses being just a snazzy run and shoot. Yes, they are related and have some sort of philosophical link - but they are not the same. Run and shoot was always a bit of gimmick. The spread offenses (and I don't mean that zone read crap with a running QB - I mean what NE runs and Chip Kelly when it works) of today are much more viable because the emergence of freakish athletes at the TE position allow for teams to implement spread concepts and not get their QB killed.

ALso, the 3-4 zone blitz, while it may have been effective against aspects of the run and shoot (and not always - Warren Moon's Oilers lit up some damn good 3-4 Steelers defenses in his day) it was really designed more to attack and force mistakes from those classic West Coast short passing attacks. Hence the focus on "tackling the catch". Don't let 3 yard slants turn in to house calls. Get that back on the wheel route on the ground, etc. Force a West Coast team to complete 10-12 passes per drive in order to score points. In theory, expose a team to pass pressure a dozen times per drive and they will make critical mistakes leading to sacks or turnovers. Extra Possessions for your team and the route is on.

Just some random opinions as I wait for the Badgers to lose in the Sweet Sixteen.


we will have to agree to disagree

[Rotorhead]

We were only gashed by the run when we had to rest Tuit and Heyward (see Denver's final drive). We actually had a very good Run Def with those two and McClendon in the game together, and by all accounts you (and a few others) are saying McClendon was not that good of a NT. So we really just need 2 solid DL to help rotate with Heyward and Tuitt without the GIANT dropoff that Thomas + McClendon had when they were in there together. We can probably get that anywhere in the first 4 rounds. That leaves us with McCullers as our NT, and honestly he has flashed enough that I feel comfortable with him in the Base 34 (25% of the time) to be able to stop the run plenty well. If we can draft DL, DL, CB, S in the first 4 rounds (no particular order) and they all actually turn out to not be total failures, then I will be happy with our Draft.

[polamalubeast]

The run defense of the steelers was very good last year(6th in the NFL in YPC and 5th in rushing yards against).

[Dwinsgames]

The run defense of the steelers was very good last year(6th in the NFL in YPC and 5th in rushing yards against).

statistics are often skewed when your team is so bad vs A) the run or B) the pass ... if horrible at one it almost always makes you look at the very least respectable at the other because teams pick on the weak aspect by design and consequently you then see much less action vs the other aspect of your defense ...bad at pass defense teams throw on you , less rushing attempts =less rushing yards given up =higher rated run defense than perhaps is deserved ...

[polamalubeast]

statistics are often skewed when your team is so bad vs A) the run or B) the pass ... if horrible at one it almost always makes you look at the very least respectable at the other because teams pick on the weak aspect by design and consequently you then see much less action vs the other aspect of your defense ...bad at pass defense teams throw on you , less rushing attempts =less rushing yards given up =higher rated run defense than perhaps is deserved ...

This was true for the 2014 season (4.4 yards per run for the opponent in 2014), but last year, the Steelers have allowed only 3.8 yards per run, which was 6th in the NFL.

[Born2Steel]

Point is, errr was......There are options available. We are no longer a 34 defense by definition. We have become a hybrid, depending on the situation, scheme defense. if at 25 our top listed CBs are off the board, we can go DL easily to fit our defense. If we have our highest rated player remaining is an ILB, same situation, we can take him and he works in our scheme. We do need to add DBs, but we are not handicapped by 'if we don't go CB in the first 2-3 rounds = bad draft" philosophy. This defensive draft is deep, seriously deep. There are DBs, DLs, LBs, to be had in every round 1-7. This is a very exciting time to be a Steelers fan because our offense is set to go, and our defense is only a couple players away from being very good as well. I never predict, but this young team is starting to take shape, and the rest of the league hasn't even noticed yet.

Munch has the OL working. Ben has never played better. Bell and Williams. AB, and our WR corps. Green and 2nd year James. Excited for this?
Let's get some more play makers on this defense, and call it what you want, 34,43,245, I call it 'about to go off', and I'm excited for it.

[pczach]

The reason teams that have traditionally played base 3-4 defenses are now playing more sub packages and creating more ways to adjust the defensive sets and are looking for more versatile players that can play multiple positions is because of the evolution of the passing game which now dominates NFL offenses. A base 3-4 defense is vulnerable when they are spread out and thrown on. The Patriots made that perfectly obvious when they dismantled the Steelers several times. Yes, the Steelers were impenetrable against the run....so they didn't even try. The nose tackle became irrelevant any time the opposing team decided to play to the weakness of the base 3-4.

This is why the traditional nose tackle position is becoming obsolete, and teams are being forced to try to find defensive tackles that can hold up against double teams and 1 gap and 2 gap responsibilities but can also play any technique and be an effective pass rusher. Advanced passing offenses have forced defenses to become more complex and versatile, while also forcing them to have more speed and players that can cover on the field a greater percentage of the time. This allows defenses to disguise coverages and fronts by having players that are capable of playing many different positions and handling multiple responsibilities.

That's when the chess matches between offensive and defensive coordinators, and the mental battles between defensive signal callers and quarterbacks are on full display.

The bottom line is that there is a reason traditional nose tackles don't have the value they once did. Offenses have found a way to eliminate them from being players that control games. If you throw the ball on first and second down with a NT on the field that can't rush the passer, you control the terms of the battle. It's that simple.

[Mojouw]

The reason teams that have traditionally played base 3-4 defenses are now playing more sub packages and creating more ways to adjust the defensive sets and are looking for more versatile players that can play multiple positions is because of the evolution of the passing game which now dominates NFL offenses. A base 3-4 defense is vulnerable when they are spread out and thrown on. The Patriots made that perfectly obvious when they dismantled the Steelers several times. Yes, the Steelers were impenetrable against the run....so they didn't even try. The nose tackle became irrelevant any time the opposing team decided to play to the weakness of the base 3-4.

This is why the traditional nose tackle position is becoming obsolete, and teams are being forced to try to find defensive tackles that can hold up against double teams and 1 gap and 2 gap responsibilities but can also play any technique and be an effective pass rusher. Advanced passing offenses have forced defenses to become more complex and versatile, while also forcing them to have more speed and players that can cover on the field a greater percentage of the time. This allows defenses to disguise coverages and fronts by having players that are capable of playing many different positions and handling multiple responsibilities.

That's when the chess matches between offensive and defensive coordinators, and the mental battles between defensive signal callers and quarterbacks are on full display.

The bottom line is that there is a reason traditional nose tackles don't have the value they once did. Offenses have found a way to eliminate them from being players that control games. If you throw the ball on first and second down with a NT on the field that can't rush the passer, you control the terms of the battle. It's that simple.

This is an excellent post. Couldn't agree more! Great stuff! Glad you have moved to posting over here.

[Dwinsgames]

its really more involved than just that ..

the old saying still rings true today ..

It all starts up front

if you control the LOS you dictate what is available to the other team and are in control of the ebb and flow of the game
controlling the LOS is not just stone walling the opponent it is playing 2 or 3 yards on the other side of the LOS with 2 or more men on any given snap , when the QB is forced to leave his comfort zone ( the pocket ) , make him move off his spot , have guys in his grill it is a proven fact they are more apt to make mistakes , have errant throws and or get crushed ..

Pressure comes in many forms it is not always getting a sack , forcing them to throw early , off rhythm , off their back foot or even on the move is most time advantage defense ...

bad things happen to offenses who have to improvise ( unless their QB is Ben ) .

a guy like Billings is the kind of guy who will make Tuitte and Heyward even more effective , when you have 6 guys who can get after the passer and the guy in the middle playing the nose can push his man ( or men ) back towards that QB making him move he has little choice but to move towards one of the incoming rushers off either edge ..

give me Billings and that alone will improve the pass rush of others AND the coverage in the secondary , if you have to cover for less time you are going to be better as a result of it ..

not everyone will agree and I know that going in but you just will never be able to disprove the old saying from the beginning of this post ... It all starts up front

have a great Easter everyone

[steelerdude15]

If this was mentioned earlier, I do apologize, but another potential upside to drafting Eli would be that the defensive scheme/plays that Ohio State uses are very similar to what the Steelers use. This is one of the reasons why we've seen the Steelers draft Ohio State prospects.

[Mojouw]

its really more involved than just that ..

the old saying still rings true today ..

It all starts up front

if you control the LOS you dictate what is available to the other team and are in control of the ebb and flow of the game
controlling the LOS is not just stone walling the opponent it is playing 2 or 3 yards on the other side of the LOS with 2 or more men on any given snap , when the QB is forced to leave his comfort zone ( the pocket ) , make him move off his spot , have guys in his grill it is a proven fact they are more apt to make mistakes , have errant throws and or get crushed ..

Pressure comes in many forms it is not always getting a sack , forcing them to throw early , off rhythm , off their back foot or even on the move is most time advantage defense ...

bad things happen to offenses who have to improvise ( unless their QB is Ben ) .

a guy like Billings is the kind of guy who will make Tuitte and Heyward even more effective , when you have 6 guys who can get after the passer and the guy in the middle playing the nose can push his man ( or men ) back towards that QB making him move he has little choice but to move towards one of the incoming rushers off either edge ..

give me Billings and that alone will improve the pass rush of others AND the coverage in the secondary , if you have to cover for less time you are going to be better as a result of it ..

not everyone will agree and I know that going in but you just will never be able to disprove the old saying from the beginning of this post ... It all starts up front

have a great Easter everyone

All very true and all very very valid and important points. I agree with all of them - assuming your base package is on the field. But a NT can not cover a "move" TE, he can not cover a slot WR, he can not cover a 4th or 5th reciever (although Lebeau used to have Hampton try!). If the offense puts personnel groupings on the field that "demand" an extra DB or 2, then the NT is the obvious candidate to remove from the base formation.

Now we are back to the idea that this NT, even if he is the ancient Saxon god of war taking human form in order to play football for the Pittsburgh Steelers and capable of creating minor havoc on most downs, playing less than 50% of the defensive snaps. The question is does that proposition, a player that plays in - at best - 40% of the defensive plays, soaking up the "value" of a #1 pick?

I don't know the answer. Heck, they let Jarvis Jones be a #1 pick - so why not someone who can actually play?

[Texasteel]

I have always thought that you build a team from the front back. Right now I am leaning towards Billings, and trying to get Burns in the second, but I would be about as happy with Jackson, and trying to get Clark in the second. Hell, it's likely that a team or two in front of us will make the choice for us.

[pczach]

This is an excellent post. Couldn't agree more! Great stuff! Glad you have moved to posting over here.


Thanks, I appreciate the kind words.

I'm happy to be here.

[Dwinsgames]

All very true and all very very valid and important points. I agree with all of them - assuming your base package is on the field. But a NT can not cover a "move" TE, he can not cover a slot WR, he can not cover a 4th or 5th reciever (although Lebeau used to have Hampton try!). If the offense puts personnel groupings on the field that "demand" an extra DB or 2, then the NT is the obvious candidate to remove from the base formation.

Now we are back to the idea that this NT, even if he is the ancient Saxon god of war taking human form in order to play football for the Pittsburgh Steelers and capable of creating minor havoc on most downs, playing less than 50% of the defensive snaps. The question is does that proposition, a player that plays in - at best - 40% of the defensive plays, soaking up the "value" of a #1 pick?

I don't know the answer. Heck, they let Jarvis Jones be a #1 pick - so why not someone who can actually play?

the problem is ( from where I sit anyways ) assuming the NT is the guy who comes off the field .

hell maybe nobody has to come off the field , perhaps we just shift the formation a bit and Shazier becomes an extra Safety on pure passing downs ?

maybe Mitchell comes off and an additional corner comes in and Shaz moves to S ?

The way I see it a guy who improves your team , improves your team ..

going 4 or 5 wide to spread you out comes with a risk factor if you are pinning your ears back and drop a guy like Shazier into coverage because he is as fast as most WR's and sometimes just getting in the way is all you have to do ...

a guy like Billings becomes a weapon without creating solo statistics because the guys around him will be more productive

[86WARD]

Pete Schrager of Fox Sports has the Steelers selecting Memphis QB Paxton Lynch at No. 25 overall in his mock draft.

[Texasteel]

Pete Schrager of Fox Sports has the Steelers selecting Memphis QB Paxton Lynch at No. 25 overall in his mock draft.

I can remember a couple of members here calling for Bens replacement 2 years ago.

How many years do you think Ben has left? If your answer is 2 or less years this may not be a bad pick, if the Steelers really think that Paxton is THE ONE.

[Count Steeler]

I can remember a couple of members here calling for Bens replacement 2 years ago.

How many years do you think Ben has left? If your answer is 2 or less years this may not be a bad pick, if the Steelers really think that Paxton is THE ONE.

Unless there is THE ONE on the horizon at the college level that is graduating in 2-3 years. The Steelers need a better backup QB. Maybe take a shot on Lynch. Jones has hit his ceiling. Bruce is almost done. Vick should retire. Pretty slim pickings for a position that is becoming more important in the NFL. Starting QBs seem to miss at least a couple games a season now.

Lynch might be the bridge to get us from Ben to the NEXT ONE.

[pczach]

I can remember a couple of members here calling for Bens replacement 2 years ago.

How many years do you think Ben has left? If your answer is 2 or less years this may not be a bad pick, if the Steelers really think that Paxton is THE ONE.


I would guess Ben has at least 4 great years left, but maybe longer if he stays healthy with the offensive talent they have on the field.

[Born2Steel]

Which is why this draft is so important. If Ben does go down this season, our defense will need to pick up most of the slack. Of our current back up scenarios, Jones is the only one we can count on. Vick should be gone(as someone posted before), Grad's shoulder is still MIA as far as I know, and even a healthy confident rookie draft pick is going to struggle mightily, most likely. We have to strike gold here and now with some great defensive picks early and often. Keep Ben upright and clean, stack defensively, and we are there.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Pete Schrager of Fox Sports has the Steelers selecting Memphis QB Paxton Lynch at No. 25 overall in his mock draft.
If that happens, I'm turning off the draft. That would just be stupid with all of the needs we have on the defensive side.

[Texasteel]

Unless there is THE ONE on the horizon at the college level that is graduating in 2-3 years. The Steelers need a better backup QB. Maybe take a shot on Lynch. Jones has hit his ceiling. Bruce is almost done. Vick should retire. Pretty slim pickings for a position that is becoming more important in the NFL. Starting QBs seem to miss at least a couple games a season now.

Lynch might be the bridge to get us from Ben to the NEXT ONE.

There is always, THE ONE, on the horizon. However, a lot of the time when it comes to QBs, a mermaid on the horizon often looks more like a dogfish when you get in the boat.

[fansince'76]

Unless there is THE ONE on the horizon at the college level that is graduating in 2-3 years. The Steelers need a better backup QB. Maybe take a shot on Lynch. Jones has hit his ceiling. Bruce is almost done. Vick should retire. Pretty slim pickings for a position that is becoming more important in the NFL. Starting QBs seem to miss at least a couple games a season now.

Lynch might be the bridge to get us from Ben to the NEXT ONE.

It's also a very hard position to fill, considering that a good 2/3 of the STARTING QBs in the league pretty much suck.

I am dreading the day Roethlisberger retires, personally.

[Born2Steel]

My personal appraisal(For what it's worth) is Lynch will be a good NFL QB. I don't know about great. I went to Memphis back when it was Memphis State, and have kept current on the athletics there. Paxton Lynch has ALL the tools and knows how to use them. That said, he is no Ben. He is not a 1st round draft pick for us. If he fell to the 3rd, I would definitely take him. I don't know anything about coaching QBs to be NFL ready, but his college career was impressive as any I have personally seen.
Kelly at Ole Miss is another QB I have seen a lot of. He also is the real deal and will be a very good NFL QB. He's more 'Favre-ish' in the gunslinger attitude, Lynch is more 'Rodgers-ish' in that his success comes more from trusting the play. Kelly will be available next draft.

[fansince'76]

My personal appraisal(For what it's worth) is Lynch will be a good NFL QB. I don't know about great. I went to Memphis back when it was Memphis State, and have kept current on the athletics there. Paxton Lynch has ALL the tools and knows how to use them. That said, he is no Ben. He is not a 1st round draft pick for us. If he fell to the 3rd, I would definitely take him. I don't know anything about coaching QBs to be NFL ready, but his college career was impressive as any I have personally seen.
Kelly at Ole Miss is another QB I have seen a lot of. He also is the real deal and will be a very good NFL QB. He's more 'Favre-ish' in the gunslinger attitude, Lynch is more 'Rodgers-ish' in that his success comes more from trusting the play. Kelly will be available next draft.

Me neither, but I do know that the Steelers have historically not been very good at it. On a broader note, I'm honestly not sure how much positional coaching can really help a QB at the NFL level beyond improving throwing mechanics and the like.

As far as the intangibles required for (successfully) playing QB at the NFL level are concerned (which are also largely indefinable), it seems to me that either a prospect "has it" or he doesn't. For example, Roethlisberger showed an innate aptitude for playing QB at the NFL level right out of the gate, despite the rough edges. Kordell Stewart, on the other hand, looked just as lost and clueless in year 5 as he did in year 1.

[Mojouw]

Me neither, but I do know that the Steelers have historically not been very good at it. On a broader note, I'm honestly not sure how much positional coaching can really help a QB at the NFL level beyond improving throwing mechanics and the like.

As far as the intangibles required for (successfully) playing QB at the NFL level are concerned (which are also largely indefinable), it seems to me that either a prospect "has it" or he doesn't. For example, Roethlisberger showed an innate aptitude for playing QB at the NFL level right out of the gate, despite the rough edges. Kordell Stewart, on the other hand, looked just as lost and clueless in year 5 as he did in year 1.

For me it is accuracy and completion percentage. If you didn't complete at least 60% of your passes as a college starter - you are going to suck in the NFL.

There are of course other factors, but it starts there for me.

[polamalubeast]

I would be very upset if the Steelers drafted a QB in the first 4 rounds.The steelers have to think about now and not in the future.

I would not be surprised if Roethlisberger has 4-5 more years of quality.The QB are now very good even if they are close to 40 years old because of the rules.

- - - Updated - - -


For me it is accuracy and completion percentage. If you didn't complete at least 60% of your passes as a college starter - you are going to suck in the NFL.

There are of course other factors, but it starts there for me.


Eli Manning has only completed 60.8% of his passes in college.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I would be very upset if the Steelers drafted a QB in the first 4 rounds.

definitely not in the first three rounds, but round 4 wouldn't upset me too much.

because it worked so well last time.

oh wait...

[teegre]

I have always thought that you build a team from the front back. Right now I am leaning towards Billings, and trying to get Burns in the second,

Yep. You win along the line, you win the game.

Burns might creep up into the top 20, and be the 2nd CB taken in the draft. Teams started looking at him (obviously, due to your mentioning him : lol: ), and they've liked what they've seen.

[teegre]

Pete Schrager of Fox Sports has the Steelers selecting Memphis QB Paxton Lynch at No. 25 overall in his mock draft.

I would have no problem with that.

Hear me out...

If BB goes down, the Steelers need a guy who can win at least 50% of the games. Landry Jones does not appear to be that guy, and neither do Grad nor Vick. They need a backup QB who can actually win, otherwise, BB feels compelled to come back before he is healthy enough to be effective.

I truly think that the Steelers lost out on ring #7 in 2011.

The Steelers were the #1 seed, and then, BB gets hurt. The backups couldn't do squat; so, BB comes back too early (and plays like crap). Then, the playoffs start, and instead of having a healthy BB, he is still hobbled. Look at Pittsburgh's last possession in regulation: they were in game-winning FG range, until BB took two sacks (moving them out of FG range). A healthy BB not only avoids those sacks, the Steelers likely never would ahev needed that last-minute FG to begin with.

Again, a healthy backup QB would have allowed BB to rest. Even if it meant still being the #5 seed, the Steelers would have had a healthy BB for the playoffs.

[Dwinsgames]

I would have no problem with that.

Hear me out...

If BB goes down, the Steelers need a guy who can win at least 50% of the games. Landry Jones does not appear to be that guy, and neither do Grad nor Vick. They need a backup QB who can actually win, otherwise, BB feels compelled to come back before he is healthy enough to be effective.

I truly think that the Steelers lost out on ring #7 in 2011.

The Steelers were the #1 seed, and then, BB gets hurt. The backups couldn't do squat; so, BB comes back too early (and plays like crap). Then, the playoffs start, and instead of having a healthy BB, he is still hobbled. Look at Pittsburgh's last possession in regulation: they were in game-winning FG range, until BB took two sacks (moving them out of FG range). A healthy BB not only avoids those sacks, the Steelers likely never would ahev needed that last-minute FG to begin with.

Again, a healthy backup QB would have allowed BB to rest. Even if it meant still being the #5 seed, the Steelers would have had a healthy BB for the playoffs.


while those are fine points it is still to much of a luxury pick when we have so much greater needs in other areas specifically secondary and D-line

[SteelerFanInStl]

while those are fine points it is still to much of a luxury pick when we have so much greater needs in other areas specifically secondary and D-line

Yep. We don't have the luxury of taking a QB in the first round with all of our holes on defense.

[teegre]

while those are fine points it is still to much of a luxury pick when we have so much greater needs in other areas specifically secondary and D-line

I hear you.

But...

R2: draft a D-lineman who is probably better than Cam Thomas.
R3: draft a safety who is probably just as good as Will Allen.
R4: draft a corner who is probably better than Antwan Blake.

Add in Senquez Golson, and voila!!! the defense is better than last season.

[polamalubeast]

I hear you.

But...

R2: draft a D-lineman who is probably better than Cam Thomas.
R3: draft a safety who is probably just as good as Will Allen.
R4: draft a corner who is probably better than Antwan Blake.

Add in Senquez Golson, and voila!!! the defense is better than last season.


Still need a OLB....

[pczach]

I hear you.

But...

R2: draft a D-lineman who is probably better than Cam Thomas.
R3: draft a safety who is probably just as good as Will Allen.
R4: draft a corner who is probably better than Antwan Blake.

Add in Senquez Golson, and voila!!! the defense is better than last season.



Here's my plan:

R1: Draft the best defensive player available-preferably a Billings or highly rated CB
R2: Draft the best safety on the board- maybe Karl Joseph
R3: Draft the best available at a defensive position that hasn't been addressed yet. (DT, CB, S, or pass rusher)
R4: Draft best available defensive player on the board. Victor Ochi, CB Deiondre' Hall, Northern Iowa
R6: Draft a player with huge upside that is undervalued. Maybe a receiver- think Malcolm Mitchell, Georgia
R7: Best player on the board at a position of need
R7: Best player on the board at a position of need

Big Ben stays healthy..........the defense is better............SUPERBOWL!!!!

Compete for championships the next 3-5 years and have a deep roster that allows them to draft a quarterback they really like in about 2 years that turns into Ben's replacement.

:tt03:


Who's with me!!!

[Dwinsgames]

I hear you.

But...

R2: draft a D-lineman who is probably better than Cam Thomas.
R3: draft a safety who is probably just as good as Will Allen.
R4: draft a corner who is probably better than Antwan Blake.

Add in Senquez Golson, and voila!!! the defense is better than last season.

R2... one should hope you could do that in round 7
R3 ... that is probably accurate
R4 see round 2
but still need OLB and its doubtful a corner drafted in round 4 sees the field as a rookie even if he is better than anyone else on the roster see 2015 pick round 4 Grant who seen just 1 snap all year even though Blake was sucking eggs

[Born2Steel]

I would have no problem with that.

Hear me out...

If BB goes down, the Steelers need a guy who can win at least 50% of the games. Landry Jones does not appear to be that guy, and neither do Grad nor Vick. They need a backup QB who can actually win, otherwise, BB feels compelled to come back before he is healthy enough to be effective.

I truly think that the Steelers lost out on ring #7 in 2011.

The Steelers were the #1 seed, and then, BB gets hurt. The backups couldn't do squat; so, BB comes back too early (and plays like crap). Then, the playoffs start, and instead of having a healthy BB, he is still hobbled. Look at Pittsburgh's last possession in regulation: they were in game-winning FG range, until BB took two sacks (moving them out of FG range). A healthy BB not only avoids those sacks, the Steelers likely never would ahev needed that last-minute FG to begin with.

Again, a healthy backup QB would have allowed BB to rest. Even if it meant still being the #5 seed, the Steelers would have had a healthy BB for the playoffs.

Yeah, I agree with what you're saying. But, there will be somebody there at 25 that makes more sense for us than Lynch. After the Browns, Rams, and 49ers, who's taking a QB early? I'm thinking round 4 there will be a QB upgrade to back up Ben. Round 3 if we think there's about to be a run on backups. I like Lynch. I don't love Lynch, especially at 25.

I think our 1st round grade CBs will be gone. I know there will be a DL, OL, or LB with a 1st round grade. There may even be a safety. I give Lynch a 1st round grade IF all of the above are gone.

[Drazo85]

Big fat ugly guy round one. CB only if some of the best falls to us. QB in 2017 or 2018.

[Dwinsgames]

Round 1 Pick 25: Andrew Billings (http://www.google.com/search?q=Andrew+Billings+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), DT, Baylor
Round 2 Pick 27: Artie Burns (http://www.google.com/search?q=Artie+Burns+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), CB, Miami (Fla.)
Round 3 Pick 26: Jordan Jenkins (http://www.google.com/search?q=Jordan+Jenkins+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), OLB, Georgia
Round 4 Pick 25: DeAndre Houston-Carson (http://www.google.com/search?q=DeAndre+Houston-Carson+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), FS, William & Mary
Round 6 Pick 45 (COMP): Deiondre' Hall (http://www.google.com/search?q=Deiondre%27+Hall+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), CB, Northern Iowa
Round 7 Pick 8: Demarcus Robinson (http://www.google.com/search?q=Demarcus+Robinson+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), WR, Florida
Round 7 Pick 25: Nate Sudfeld (http://www.google.com/search?q=Nate+Sudfeld+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), QB, Indiana

[teegre]

Yeah, I agree with what you're saying. But, there will be somebody there at 25 that makes more sense for us than Lynch. After the Browns, Rams, and 49ers, who's taking a QB early? I'm thinking round 4 there will be a QB upgrade to back up Ben. Round 3 if we think there's about to be a run on backups. I like Lynch. I don't love Lynch, especially at 25.

I think our 1st round grade CBs will be gone. I know there will be a DL, OL, or LB with a 1st round grade. There may even be a safety. I give Lynch a 1st round grade IF all of the above are gone.

Exactly.

Drafting Lynch is not illogical, but it certainly isn't preferred.

- - - Updated - - -


R2... one should hope you could do that in round 7

R4 see round 2


True and truer.

- - - Updated - - -



Big Ben stays healthy

If you promise me that, I don't need anything else.

[pczach]

Exactly.

Drafting Lynch is not illogical, but it certainly isn't preferred.

- - - Updated - - -



True and truer.

- - - Updated - - -



If you promise me that, I don't need anything else.



I can neither confirm nor deny my assertion. I hope this helps.


:chuckle:

[86WARD]

If that happens, I'm turning off the draft. That would just be stupid with all of the needs we have on the defensive side.



Actually, it wouldn't be stupid at all. If they think Ben has 3-4 more years and to have Lynch (if it is the best player available and he is the one they chose as their future QB) taken there at 25...it's not stupid at all. He can sit and learn behind possibly the greatest QB in Steelers history, sit behind Jones, while he doesn't have the talent, he's football smart. It's not terrible. Especially from the narrow perspective the steelers brass has. "They did it last year with these players, they can do it again."

It would surprise me that they were doing something logical more so than anything else...lol.

In a perfect world, they'd draft another Woodson or Polamalu...but probably not going to happen. Probably more likely that Chad Scott shows up again.

[polamalubeast]

Now in the NFL, you not need to learn on the bench to become a very good QB.

If I would be steelers,I would wait the retirement of Roethlisberger before drafted a QB.

[Texasteel]

Yep. You win along the line, you win the game.

Burns might creep up into the top 20, and be the 2nd CB taken in the draft. Teams started looking at him (obviously, due to your mentioning him : lol: ), and they've liked what they've seen.

You sure know how to break an old mans heart.

As far as my mentioning him is concerned, it's kind of an old joke amongst a few of us older members. A couple of us were band from talking about a relatively lesser know players we liked. This is the first year I broke that ban. Doesn't matter, they seem to find them anyway.

[teegre]

You sure know how to break an old mans heart.

As far as my mentioning him is concerned, it's kind of an old joke amongst a few of us older members. A couple of us were band from talking about a relatively lesser know players we liked. This is the first year I broke that ban. Doesn't matter, they seem to find them anyway.

Sorry, brother.

A a few years ago, I was jokingly referred to as Ozzie... because, the Ravens would draft almost every player that I had discussed and/or wanted. Like eerily so.

It got so bad, that I swore that he was perusing the SF message board.

I figured it out though: I just use parentheses (Ozzie can't read anything inside of them). :lol:


I really like Cyrus Jones, but with so many othe needs, we'll have to hope he's there at 58. Man, I hope that he doesn't get stolen away at the top of R2. (exchange Jones' name with Artie Burns :wink02: )

[SteelersCanada]

I hear this is where all the cool kids hang out.

Apple is the 5th rated CB on my boards and that might be because I was in a good mood when I graded him.

[Dwinsgames]

I hear this is where all the cool kids hang out.

Apple is the 5th rated CB on my boards and that might be because I was in a good mood when I graded him.

I am not a fan either , way to grabby for my liking , sure he has tools but he is raw and old habits die hard ..for me think Justin Gilbert a guy with tools but could easily not develop once he gets paid

[teegre]

I hear this is where all the cool kids hang out.

Apple is the 5th rated CB on my boards and that might be because I was in a good mood when I graded him.

Welcome, brother!!!!!

[pczach]

I hear this is where all the cool kids hang out.

Apple is the 5th rated CB on my boards and that might be because I was in a good mood when I graded him.

You don't know jack shit about anything! :alcohol:

Hey buddy! Good to see you here.

All the cool kids are here.....and a couple goofballs like me sprinkled in.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I hear this is where all the cool kids hang out.

Apple is the 5th rated CB on my boards and that might be because I was in a good mood when I graded him.

aloha SC, welcome to this board. you'll really like posting here! :thumbsup:

and it's time to shut up about Eli Apple...:chuckle:

[SteelersCanada]

You don't know jack shit about anything! :alcohol:

Hey buddy! Good to see you here.

All the cool kids are here.....and a couple goofballs like me sprinkled in.


Welcome, brother!!!!!

Thanks guys. Appreciate it. This feels closer to SF than SX did.


aloha SC, welcome to this board. you'll really like posting here! :thumbsup:

and it's time to shut up about Eli Apple...:chuckle:

lol. Thanks, Hawaii. :thumbsup:

[fansince'76]

Thanks guys. Appreciate it. This feels closer to SF than SX did.

Welcome.

We started this board after the first "implosion" of SF back in 2010, and basically modeled it after SF.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Three weeks out mock draft

by Dale Lolley

With three weeks now remaining before the start of the NFL draft, the silly season is up and running. Rumors, innuendo and flat out lies will be put out about this prospect or team as the jockeying to acquire the right guy or throw up false smoke signals becomes the rule of the day.

With all of that in mind, here is my three weeks out mock draft:

1. San Francisco (from Tennessee), Jared Goff, QB, Calfornia: Yep, I’m putting Goff as the top pick. The 49ers won’t hope he lasts until pick 7.

2. Cleveland, Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State: I think Goff is the better prospect, but the Browns like Wentz better. I probably have a better track record than Cleveland looking at quarterbacks.

3. San Diego, Jalen Ramsey, S, Florida State: This one doesn’t change. Ramsey has the look of a future star.

4. Dallas, Ezekial Elliott, RB, Ohio State: Jerry Jones likes his stars. Elliott could be a star.

5. Jacksonville, Joey Bosa, DE, Ohio State: Back-to-back Ohio State picks. The Jags are building a potential big-time winner.

6. Baltimore, Laremy Tunsil, OT, Ole Miss: The Ravens get lucky here and get the draft’s best offensive lineman.

7. Tennessee, Ronnie Stanley, OT, Notre Dame: The Titans move down and acquire extra picks, but miss out on Tunsil. Stanley’s not a bad consolation prize.

8. Philadelphia, Myles Jack, LB, UCLA: Jack is a jack of all trades and might be the best athlete in this draft.

9. Tampa Bay, Vernon Hargreaves, CB, Florida: The Bucs need to upgrade their secondary, though they would have liked line help on either side of the ball here.

10. N.Y. Giants, Darron Lee, LB, Ohio State: Three Buckeyes in the top 10. Lee is a Ryan Shazier clone.

11. Chicago, DeForest Bruckner, DE, Oregon: The failure of some other Oregon defensive prospects will scare some teams away from taking Bruckner higher. Can he buck the trend?

12. New Orleans, A’Shawn Robinson, DT, Alabama: The Steelers brought Robinson in for a visit earlier this week. But the talented big man won’t last until their pick.

13. Miami, Mackensie Alexander, CB, Clemson: The Dolphins need cornerback help badly. Alexander is brash but smaller than ideal.

14. Oakland, William Jackson, CB, Houston: The Raiders love the fast guys. And Jackson has plenty of speed.

15. Los Angeles Rams, Paxton Lynch, QB, Memphis: The Rams need to give Jeff Fisher a QB to work with rather than going with journeyman after journeyman.

16. Detroit, Shaq Lawson, DE, Clemson: The Lions can bookend Lawson with Ziggy Ansah to provide a solid pass rush.

17. Atlanta, Reggie Ragland, ILB, Alabama: Ragland will provide immediate run-stopping ability for the Falcons and will be their defensive captain for years to come.

18. Indianapolis, Jack Conklin, OT, Michigan State: The Colts have to protect the quarterback better.

19. Buffalo, Laquon Treadwell, WR, Ole Miss: The Bills will add Treadwell to give Sammy Watkins a running mate.

20. N.Y. Jets, Leonard Floyd, OLB, Georgia: The Jets need to improve their pass rush.

21. Washington, Andrew Billings, DT, Baylor: Many Steelers fans have a love affair with Billings. He doesn’t last.

22. Houston, Robert Nkemdiche, DL, Ole Miss: Nkemdiche is athletic enough to play inside or out opposite J.J. Watt if he can keep his head on straight.

23. Minnesota, Cody Whitehair, G, Kansas State: The Vikings need to improve the interior of their offensive line.

24. Cincinnati, Sheldon Rankins, DT, Louisville: The Bengals pass on receiver to get younger in the middle of their defense. They have to slow Le’Veon Bell, after all.

25. Pittsburgh, Eli Apple, CB, Ohio State: Tall and athletic. He’s not a finished product yet, but in this mock, he falls to the Steelers.

26. Seattle, Taylor Decker, OT, Ohio State: The Seahawks have had a complete turnover in their offensive front since winning the Super Bowl a couple of years ago.

27. Green Bay, Jarran Reed, DT. Alabama: The Packers need a big man in the middle.

28. Kansas City, Noah Spence, OLB, Eastern Kentucky: This jumped to an immediate need when Justin Houston was lost for what looks to be the season.

29. Arizona, Keanu Neal, S, Florida: An outside-the-box pick for the Cardinals.

30. New England, forfeited

31. Carolina, Jason Spriggs, OT, Indiana: Michael Oher at LT. Really?

32. Denver, Jaylon Smith, LB, Notre Dame: The Super Bowl champs can afford to have Smith not play much if at all this season. But he was a top-15 talent before his knee injury. Now, he can sit and learn.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/20160406/three_weeks_out_mock_draft#.VwXUd6e4wRs.twitter

[Psycho Ward 86]

Honestly I'm more comfortable with Eli Apple than William Jackson. He's a disturbingly bad tackler and he's about to turn 24, so i suspect he might not get much better. Apple may be on the raw side, but he's shown transcendent improvement. Dont really like him in the 1st either though. I think Alexander will end up head and shoulders better and still not get any attention for it.

Here's to DT/DE or S in the 1st round

[Born2Steel]

Honestly I'm more comfortable with Eli Apple than William Jackson. He's a disturbingly bad tackler and he's about to turn 24, so i suspect he might not get much better. Apple may be on the raw side, but he's shown transcendent improvement. Dont really like him in the 1st either though. I think Alexander will end up head and shoulders better and still not get any attention for it.

Here's to DT/DE or S in the 1st round

I pretty much agree with you there. I just don't know if any of the CBs are really worthy of taking in the 1st. I think Hargreaves, Apple, and Jackson will all be off the board when we select. Have you seen/read/or heard about Alexander having some issues with hamstring injuries?

[hawaiiansteeler]

ESPN Todd McShay's latest mock draft has the Steelers answering some major questions in Rounds 1-3

By Jeff.Hartman on Apr 12, 2016

The Pittsburgh Steelers defensive needs certainly trump any which are present on the offensive side of the ball, and in Todd McShay's 'Grade A' mock draft he certainly has the team addressing those needs in Rounds 1-3.

As the 2016 NFL Draft rapidly approaches, the Pittsburgh Steelers continue their search for defensive players who will help elevate their sagging defense into a championship caliber squad. It is well known the Steelers largest questions lie on the defensive half of the football field, but which position the team addresses in the first round with the 25th overall pick remains a mystery.

Fans turn to "experts" who provide mock drafts to help shine the light on what might be on the horizon for any particular NFL team. One of the more trusted names in the NFL Draft analysis game is ESPN's Todd McShay. McShay just released his "Grade A" 3-round mock draft, and he certainly had the Steelers taking care of business in the first three rounds.

Before getting into his selections, take a look at how he approached creating this mock draft:

Please read the ground rules:

1. At each slot, I make a pick in the best interest of only the team with the pick. I won't pass on a player at No. 4 just because I like the team better at No. 5.

2. No trades unless they're already done. I try to address team needs, but like the draft, value can supersede need.

3. Again: I'm not projecting. It's more a look at where I see value up and down the board.

So, McShay put his GM hat on for 32 NFL teams and rattled off three rounds of selections based on his knowledge of prospects, team needs and overall value at the position. Take a look at who he projected to the Steelers in all 3-rounds:

Pittsburgh Steelers

Round 1 (25): William Jackson III, CB, Houston
Round 2 (58): Darian Thompson, S, Boise State
Round 3 (89): Adam Gotsis, DE, Georgia Tech

Analysis: The Steelers' pass defense needs a major upgrade after allowing 272 yards per game last season (30th overall). Jackson has a good frame (6-0, 189 pounds) and elite speed (4.37 40). He thrives off the challenge of facing the opposing team's No. 1 WR, while Thompson finished his Boise State career with 19 interceptions. Gotsis shows terrific toughness on tape and would provide a boost to Pittsburgh's run defense as he continues to develop.

Say what you want about McShay and his projections, but if the Steelers draft were to work out in a similar fashion, there shouldn't be much complaining from the fan base. Drafting a top tier cornerback in the first round, a hard-hitting and versatile safety in the second and a defensive end with a ton of upside to add depth behind Stephon Tuitt and Cameron Heyward in the third would be tremendous.

Sure, the names could change. It could be Mackensie Alexander at No. 25 rather than Jackson, Karl Joseph might hang around at No. 58 and there is a myriad of defensive linemen who could fill the need for depth in the third round. However you slice it, if the Steelers are able to address their three biggest areas of need -- cornerback, safety and defensive line -- in the first 3 rounds, I would think most would agree the team has done their part in helping shape what should be a championship product in 2016, and beyond.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2016-pittsburgh-steelers-free-agency-news-rumors/2016/4/12/11414414/espn-todd-mcshays-latest-mock-draft-has-the-steelers-answering-some

[Psycho Ward 86]

man i keep watching WJIII film to see if im imagining things or not. i cant make up my mind on if he can be coached to tackle or not. its so hard to tell with the small sample size if its an effort thing, a technique thing, a fear thing, a combination of 2 or all of those factors.

kind of scares me with how bad tackling has gotten around the NFL these days, especially with these dumb non-contact practice rules. Ill be happy with any of the top 5 CB's at 25, but some serious questions posed by all of them for 1st round caliber guys