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trsteel70
01-18-2016, 01:58 PM
just my opinion everyone but i want our first two picks in the draft to be defensive backs

st33lersguy
01-18-2016, 04:50 PM
At least the first round pick should be defensive back, but first two rounds as DB would be a good idea

Born2Steel
01-18-2016, 05:41 PM
First draft in a few years that we aren't desperate for a pass rusher. I saw a short article somewhere about our secondary woes. The thing that stood out to me was the safety position. With Allen at 34+, Shamarko an injury magnet, and Mitchell, who is playing better than last season, and the only certain future safety for this team. Not forgetting Golden, but there it is. So, all that to say, I hope a future HoF safety falls to us at 25.

steelreserve
01-18-2016, 05:55 PM
I am pretty OK with Mitchell and Golden as the starting safeties as long as we bring in someone for depth. Could be through the draft, could be an average free agent. It's too bad Holliman didn't make it through training camp cuts; that could've solved a problem for us.

We need a better starter at NT. McLendon isn't that good, and apparently McCullers is more project than player. I'd put that tied with CB on our needs list; improve that position and it should be a cascading improvement to the rest of the defense as well. Still think we should take a CB in the first two rounds, though. Hopefully Golson is the real deal and with someone else good across from him, we'll have a hell of a defense.

Obviously, if a superlative talent falls to us at any of those three positions, you take him first and ask questions later. That specifically does NOT apply if it's another linebacker.

polamalubeast
01-18-2016, 06:08 PM
A NT is a good idea,only if he is a 3rd down player.

steelreserve
01-18-2016, 07:18 PM
A NT is a good idea,only if he is a 3rd down player.

Why do people still say this? It's just psyching yourself out with statistics. Whether it's two downs or three, you cannot afford to have a defensive lineman on the field who sucks. The first two downs are all the more important since they dictate what happens on the third.

I only think the "two-down" label really applies in defenses where the NT's ONLY role is to stop the run. If it's a guy who's capable of messing up the pocket - a GOOD NT, in other words- there's no reason not to leave him out there on passing plays and skip your least effective linebacker instead. It's not like our linebackers can cover a slot receiver or a pass-catching specialist TE anyway; that's a mismatch. People talk about the game changing; well, that's another way that it's changed too.

Born2Steel
01-18-2016, 07:29 PM
Anybody have any good info on this guy? A 6-5 safety?


http://walterfootball.com/college/Clemson_logo.gif Jayron Kearse*, S, Clemson
Height: 6-5. Weight: 220.
Projected 40 Time: 4.67.
Projected Round (2016): 2-3.
1/16/16: Kearse started the 2015 season strongly and finished with 62 tackles, six passes broken up, an interception and a forced fumble. He played well for Clemson, but wasn't all that impressive going against Florida State and running back Dalvin Cook.

Sources say that Kearse could be a man-coverage safety to go against pass-receiving tight ends in the NFL. One team told me they had him as a second- or third-rounder. Another team said they had him a a third- or fourth-rounder as there has never been a successful safety in the NFL who was 6-foot-5.

8/17/15: Kearse notched 60 tackles with two interceptions and five passes broken up in 2014. He had a quality season and was a bigger presence than the numbers indicate. Kearse has nice size and length to help him match up against tight ends and big receivers. His stock could rise.

Straight off Walter Football.

hawaiiansteeler
01-18-2016, 07:35 PM
A NT is a good idea,only if he is a 3rd down player.

or if he can also rotate in with Heyward and Tuitt at DE when we take the NT off the field...

86WARD
01-18-2016, 07:37 PM
I'd like to see a NT or CB in round one...but realistically, I'd rather see the best player taken. They can use depth over the whole team...25 is a tough spot to pick and get the #1 player at any position.

steelreserve
01-18-2016, 07:39 PM
Anybody have any good info on this guy? A 6-5 safety?


http://walterfootball.com/college/Clemson_logo.gif Jayron Kearse*, S, Clemson
Height: 6-5. Weight: 220.
Projected 40 Time: 4.67.
Projected Round (2016): 2-3.
1/16/16: Kearse started the 2015 season strongly and finished with 62 tackles, six passes broken up, an interception and a forced fumble. He played well for Clemson, but wasn't all that impressive going against Florida State and running back Dalvin Cook.

Sources say that Kearse could be a man-coverage safety to go against pass-receiving tight ends in the NFL. One team told me they had him as a second- or third-rounder. Another team said they had him a a third- or fourth-rounder as there has never been a successful safety in the NFL who was 6-foot-5.

8/17/15: Kearse notched 60 tackles with two interceptions and five passes broken up in 2014. He had a quality season and was a bigger presence than the numbers indicate. Kearse has nice size and length to help him match up against tight ends and big receivers. His stock could rise.

Straight off Walter Football.


Sounds like exactly the kind of guy who could help us in nickel or dime situations where the pass-catching tight end burns one of our linebackers for 15 yards on 3rd-and-12. For a mid-round pick, that kind of role player isn't bad.

If I recall, Merton Hanks was 6-3 and had a pretty damn good career. Probably just that most players that tall get pushed to be receivers, tight ends and linemen. But who knows about this guy specifically; I've got no inside information.

Shoes
01-18-2016, 08:38 PM
Daniel Jeremiah's frist mock.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/mock-drafts/daniel-jeremiah/275602

steelreserve
01-18-2016, 09:02 PM
Daniel Jeremiah's frist mock.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/mock-drafts/daniel-jeremiah/275602


Tight end? Really?

katmandu
01-18-2016, 09:03 PM
Mel Kiper mock draft: Steelers grab cornerback Kendall Fuller at 25

http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2016/01/14/mel-kiper-mock-draft-steelers-grab-cornerback-kendall-fuller-at-25/


Kiper wrote:

The Steelers have been a mess on the back end for much of the season, and could add multiple cornerbacks in the draft. (Remember, they will get back Senquez Golson (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/2577390/senquez-golson), however.) Fuller comes from a line of NFL players in his family (his brother is a cornerback for the Bears) and has tremendous talent.

He missed much of 2015 after trying to play through a cartilage injury in his knee, but he should be in great shape for the draft process.

By: Neal Coolong (http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/author/ncoolong/) | January 14, 2016 2:43 pm ET

The Steelers and Virginia Tech cornerback Kyle Fuller wasn’t a match meant to be in 2014. The Chicago Bears grabbed Fuller with the 14th overall pick, one spot ahead of the Steelers. Pittsburgh took Ryan Shazier instead. If you go off ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper, they might get a shot at his younger brother.

Kiper’s first mock draft of the year (http://espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/14551791/mel-kiper-releases-first-mock-draft-2016-nfl) came out Thursday, and the Steelers, with the 25th overall pick, took the Virginia Tech cornerback.

Injuries will sometimes send a talented player that far down in the draft, and the Steelers, who could go several directions with the pick, would be happy to take him.

Draft Wire senior analyst Jon Ledyard sent Stanford guard Joshua Garnett (http://thedraftwire.usatoday.com/2015/12/22/2016-nfl-draft-joshua-garnett-scouting-report-evaluation-round-grade-projection-film/) to Pittsburgh in his pre-Christmas mock draft (http://thedraftwire.usatoday.com/2016/01/11/2016-nfl-draft-mock-draft-senior-bowl/). That pick makes more sense, considering the lack of depth along the Steelers’ offensive line. Left guard Ramon Foster is a free agent and left tackle Kelvin Beachum is in the middle of extensive rehabilitation for a torn ACL that occurred in October.
Not that cornerback doesn’t have its share of concerns, too. While, as Kiper pointed out, Senquez Golson will return after spending his first year with the team on injured reserve, but only Ross Cockrell, an exclusive rights free agent, should be considered a lock to return. Antwon Blake had a brutal 2015 season and is facing free agency. Will Gay’s three-year contract expires this offseason and the team would want to keep him if the price is right.

teegre
01-18-2016, 09:05 PM
Anybody have any good info on this guy? A 6-5 safety?

Big, athletic with huge "upside"... a word that scares me. He reminds me of Martavis Bryant: phenomenal on one play, but then on the very next play, he can't seem to do the simple things.

Red flag: he disappeared in the championship game.

Why take him: splash plays


For a very long while, I have wanted either him or Su'a Cravens at 31. Currently, I'm on the Kenny Clark bandwagon, and then drafting a safety in R2 or R3. But, if it is Kearse, I would be fine with that.

hawaiiansteeler
01-18-2016, 09:45 PM
Daniel Jeremiah's frist mock.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/mock-drafts/daniel-jeremiah/275602

Karl Joseph in Round 1?

Shoes
01-18-2016, 10:41 PM
Karl Joseph in Round 1?

My thoughts also.

teegre
01-18-2016, 11:02 PM
Karl Joseph in Round 1?

Joseph is a big-time hitter, and he was leading the NCAA in interceptions prior to his injury.

But, "injury" is the operative word.

As it is now, I'd take a run at him in R3, and I've seen him mocked in R2. But, I just do not see him making it into R1.

hawaiiansteeler
01-18-2016, 11:56 PM
Joseph is a big-time hitter, and he was leading the NCAA in interceptions prior to his injury.

But, "injury" is the operative word.

As it is now, I'd take a run at him in R3, and I've seen him mocked in R2. But, I just do not see him making it into R1.

I don't see him making it into R1 either.

and I'm willing to bet on it...:wink02:

Galax Steeler
01-19-2016, 03:49 AM
Has everyone forgot about Golson we drafted?I would like to see more of him before we jump to the conclusion of drafting two corners.

polamalubeast
01-19-2016, 06:12 AM
Why do people still say this? It's just psyching yourself out with statistics. Whether it's two downs or three, you cannot afford to have a defensive lineman on the field who sucks. The first two downs are all the more important since they dictate what happens on the third.

I only think the "two-down" label really applies in defenses where the NT's ONLY role is to stop the run. If it's a guy who's capable of messing up the pocket - a GOOD NT, in other words- there's no reason not to leave him out there on passing plays and skip your least effective linebacker instead. It's not like our linebackers can cover a slot receiver or a pass-catching specialist TE anyway; that's a mismatch. People talk about the game changing; well, that's another way that it's changed too.


It's just you can not drafted in the first round a player who not play 50% of the snap because the opponent is almost always in passing formation.

This NT needs to be a complete player who is not just a run stopper.

SteelerFanInStl
01-19-2016, 07:35 AM
Has everyone forgot about Golson we drafted?I would like to see more of him before we jump to the conclusion of drafting two corners.
Golson is 5`9" 180 lbs. He will never be a #1 CB and most likely won't be anything more than a nickel.

Steelman
01-19-2016, 08:52 AM
Anybody have any good info on this guy? A 6-5 safety?


http://walterfootball.com/college/Clemson_logo.gif Jayron Kearse*, S, Clemson
Height: 6-5. Weight: 220.
Projected 40 Time: 4.67.
Projected Round (2016): 2-3.
1/16/16: Kearse started the 2015 season strongly and finished with 62 tackles, six passes broken up, an interception and a forced fumble. He played well for Clemson, but wasn't all that impressive going against Florida State and running back Dalvin Cook.

Sources say that Kearse could be a man-coverage safety to go against pass-receiving tight ends in the NFL. One team told me they had him as a second- or third-rounder. Another team said they had him a a third- or fourth-rounder as there has never been a successful safety in the NFL who was 6-foot-5.

8/17/15: Kearse notched 60 tackles with two interceptions and five passes broken up in 2014. He had a quality season and was a bigger presence than the numbers indicate. Kearse has nice size and length to help him match up against tight ends and big receivers. His stock could rise.

Straight off Walter Football.

Dude is mammoth for a DB but I hate his game. He takes the worst angles and in the biggest game of his life he was literally jogging behind plays. He has a massive amount of raw potential but I have my doubts as to him realizing any of it at the NFL level. He's extremely hot/cold.

With Mitchell as our resident heat-seeking human missile who also frequently takes bad angles, I don't want Kearse. We need a guy who can cover.

I'm currently high on Justin Simmons out of BC. He can be had in the early-mid rounds and he has a very well-rounded skillset.

SteelerFanInStl
01-19-2016, 09:20 AM
Yes, we absolutely need a guy that can cover. That's more important than big hits IMO.

teegre
01-19-2016, 09:58 AM
He takes the worst angles and in the biggest game of his life he was literally jogging behind plays. He has a massive amount of raw potential but I have my doubts as to him realizing any of it at the NFL level. He's extremely hot/cold.

Spot on.

There are times when I am like: WOW!!! :yay3:

Then, there are times when I am like: Wow... :huh:

Mojouw
01-19-2016, 10:02 AM
Spot on.

There are times when I am like: WOW!!! :yay3:

Then, there are times when I am like: Wow... :huh:

So Shamarko Thomas in a bigger package?

tube517
01-19-2016, 10:07 AM
Golson is 5`9" 180 lbs. He will never be a #1 CB and most likely won't be anything more than a nickel.

They were looking at him for the slot, at least initially.

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/8488117-74/lot-bryant-golson#axzz3c5RJmYYS

Rotorhead
01-19-2016, 11:48 AM
I am thinking we really just need 1 starting level CB to fix most of our ailments on defense. We of course need to keep Golden and Gay and I would imagine we could resign W Allen for one more season as a backup also. I understand the want for a top level NT for sure, but if they are on the clock and a top level NT or CB are on the board I will have to go with the CB. I doubt Boykin comes back after the way he was treated. So hopefully Grant pans out as a solid slot CB, Gay and new CB on the outsides with Cockrell in the nickel. That backfield would be good enough to compliment our offense. We were already top 5 against the run, get us top 10 or so against the pass and a top 10 defense will get us a Lombardy. I personally would rather get a CB in FA over the draft so we have a known talent and no guess work or hope needed. A FA CB also frees up a higher draft slot for other needs like OL depth, DL depth and OLB depth. This is really the best year for us to have a chance at #7 before we start losing key players to the cap, I am not usually one for building a team to win for now, but if there were ever a time to do it, it is next season.

hawaiiansteeler
01-19-2016, 11:52 AM
It's just you can not drafted in the first round a player who not play 50% of the snap because the opponent is almost always in passing formation.

This NT needs to be a complete player who is not just a run stopper.

I agree.

Steve McLendon only played 17 snaps against Denver, is that worth using a first round pick for?

katmandu
01-19-2016, 12:06 PM
This NT needs to be a complete player who is not just a run stopper.Big Snack wasn't a pass rusher but occupying two OLs on nearly every play. That certainly helped the other Defenders get after the QB.

- - - Updated - - -


I agree.

Steve McLendon only played 17 snaps against Denver, is that worth using a first round pick for?He doesn't require to be double teamed.

hawaiiansteeler
01-19-2016, 12:08 PM
Big Snack wasn't a pass rusher but occupying two OLs on nearly every play. That certainly helped the other Defenders get after the QB.

- - - Updated - - -

He doesn't require to be double teamed.

the problem is that other teams are now spreading the Steelers out in order to get the NT off the field...

tube517
01-19-2016, 12:14 PM
We need a NT/DE who can spell Tuitt and Heyward as well. We play 2 DLineman alot and those guys need a break. Any draft pick fit that mold?

katmandu
01-19-2016, 12:14 PM
the problem is that other teams are now spreading the Steelers out in order to get the NT off the field...Which is why we need a DT that can "get after it". McClendon can do it on a consistent basis.

Big Dan is too slow. However, he does over-power and push back OLs frequently. Just wish he had a nasty attitude to go along with his size and strength!

Born2Steel
01-19-2016, 12:16 PM
How does a spread formation take the NT off the field? Honest question.

Steeldude
01-19-2016, 12:23 PM
How does a spread formation take the NT off the field? Honest question.

Because you need to add an extra DB. The odd man out is the NT.

steelreserve
01-19-2016, 01:28 PM
Because you need to add an extra DB. The odd man out is the NT.


Doesn't have to be. You can play a 3-3-4 nickel as well as a 2-4-5. It depends on who's the most effective.

And since you never rush less than three guys, and usually four - really the question is whether a Casey Hampton-alike would be more effective at making the QB uncomfortable, or whether Jarvis Jones/Arthur Moats would. I think that one's not even close. The problem is that while a Casey Hampton could destroy the pocket and make the QB move, a Steve McLendon cannot.

In other words, with our current personnel, it makes sense to get the nose tackle the hell off the field because he sucks. If you had someone more talented, that changes things a lot. And so far it looks like our new defensive coordinator is smart enough to see those kinds of situations and make the right move.

It's a mistake to think that the rushers in a nickel all have to be speedy edge rushers who are going to get you sacks. A big fat guy can force the QB to scramble, throw on the run, throw off his back foot, throw the ball away, which is just as effective. I probably wouldn't advise that strategy against Russel Wilson or Cam Newton, but someone like Manning or Flacco? Fuck yeah I would.

Born2Steel
01-19-2016, 01:39 PM
Doesn't have to be. You can play a 3-3-4 nickel as well as a 2-4-5. It depends on who's the most effective.

And since you never rush less than three guys, and usually four - really the question is whether a Casey Hampton-alike would be more effective at making the QB uncomfortable, or whether Jarvis Jones/Arthur Moats would. I think that one's not even close. The problem is that while a Casey Hampton could destroy the pocket and make the QB move, a Steve McLendon cannot.

In other words, with our current personnel, it makes sense to get the nose tackle the hell off the field because he sucks. If you had someone more talented, that changes things a lot. And so far it looks like our new defensive coordinator is smart enough to see those kinds of situations and make the right move.

It's a mistake to think that the rushers in a nickel all have to be speedy edge rushers who are going to get you sacks. A big fat guy can force the QB to scramble, throw on the run, throw off his back foot, throw the ball away, which is just as effective. I probably wouldn't advise that strategy against Russel Wilson or Cam Newton, but someone like Manning or Flacco? Fuck yeah I would.

How I was thinking of the situation. Not that replacing the NT wasn't an option, just why is that the way we view our defense. ShadeTree can cause problems up the middle on must pass downs. I believe that is why we kept him.
Not really the thread though, sorry for taking it off track.

hawaiiansteeler
01-19-2016, 01:49 PM
Doesn't have to be. You can play a 3-3-4 nickel as well as a 2-4-5. It depends on who's the most effective.



you meant 3-3-5 or 2-4-5...

teegre
01-19-2016, 02:13 PM
We need a NT/DE who can spell Tuitt and Heyward as well. We play 2 DLineman alot and those guys need a break. Any draft pick fit that mold?

Kenny Clark, DL, UCLA

He can play the nose, but he can also slide out to DE (to be a part of that rotation).


I agree.

Steve McLendon only played 17 snaps against Denver, is that worth using a first round pick for?

In the Denver game, when the Broncos marched down the field, Tuitt and Heyward were off of the field. McClendon was in... but, not very effective. It might only be 17 snaps, but it was HUGE.

So, drafting a DL (who can play both NT and DE) in the first round makes a ton of sense.

Steelman
01-19-2016, 02:26 PM
Kenny Clark, DL, UCLA

He can play the nose, but he can also slide out to DE (to be a part of that rotation).



In the Denver game, when the Broncos marched down the field, Tuitt and Heyward were off of the field. McClendon was in... but, not very effective. It might only be 17 snaps, but it was HUGE.

So, drafting a DL (who can play both NT and DE) in the first round makes a ton of sense.

Jonathan Allen would've been a great fit for this role, IMO, but he's returning to school. :( Although he probably isn't big enough to play a nose position. But you slide Heyward there and move Allen to the right side...boom. Stacked.

teegre
01-19-2016, 02:32 PM
But you slide Heyward there and move Allen to the right side...boom. Stacked.

Exactly.

Heyward has played the nose before (and played it well). Now, we don't want Heyward there all of the time, but that is not really a problem, because the Steelers use two DEs lined up as DTs on the majority of their snaps.

DRIVE #1-3, #5-7, #9-11
First down: Tuitt - Heyward - rookie
Second down: Tuitt - (no one) - Heyward
Third down: Heyward - (no one) - rookie

DRIVE #4, #8, #12
First down: Tuitt - Heyward - rookie
Second down: Tuitt - (no one) - rookie
Third down: Tuitt - (no one) - rookie

tube517
01-19-2016, 02:34 PM
Kenny Clark, DL, UCLA

He can play the nose, but he can also slide out to DE (to be a part of that rotation).



In the Denver game, when the Broncos marched down the field, Tuitt and Heyward were off of the field. McClendon was in... but, not very effective. It might only be 17 snaps, but it was HUGE.

So, drafting a DL (who can play both NT and DE) in the first round makes a ton of sense.

Bring Kenny on!! :chuckle:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6f/KennyMcCormick.png

polamalubeast
01-19-2016, 02:37 PM
Exactly.

Heyward has played the nose before (and played it well). Now, we don't want Heyward there all of the time, but that is not really a problem, because the Steelers use two DEs lined up as DTs on the majority of their snaps.

DRIVE #1-3, #5-7, #9-11
First down: Tuitt - Heyward - rookie
Second down: Tuitt - (no one) - Heyward
Third down: Heyward - (no one) - rookie

DRIVE #4, #8, #12
First down: Tuitt - Heyward - rookie
Second down: Tuitt - (no one) - rookie
Third down: Tuitt - (no one) - rookie


We can also use the 3 very often at the same time much like the jets have done this year with their 3 3-4 DE.

teegre
01-19-2016, 02:44 PM
We can also use the 3 very often at the same time much like the jets have done this year with their 3 3-4 DE.

That's the beauty of having a good group of D-linemen: options.

EzraTank
01-19-2016, 02:51 PM
We definitely need a cover guy but one thing we really need is a pass rusher that can get to the QB. I don't care how good your secondary is if any NFL QB has time they will find people.

We can't expect 99 year old James Harrison to play like it's 2008 the rest of his playing days. Our front 3/4 struggled at getting pressure all year.

teegre
01-19-2016, 02:58 PM
I don't think that there is really many positions that you can take off of Pittsburgh's draft board.

D-LINE:
I'm not going to spend any time arguing NT, but there can definitely be an upgrade there. Billings and Robinson make is D-line stout on the first two downs. Kenny Clark is my favorite, because he can play two downs at NT, and then be a part of the rotation at DE.

O-LINE:
Beachum is gone. Foster is most likely gone. Is Hubbard the answer? The good news for most of you (who do not want an O-lineman taken in R1) is that there is not an "obvious" LG in this draft; there is no DeCastro. But, there are plenty of OT converts.

QUARTERBACK:
I could see a backup being groomed. This would not surprise me. I'm not for it, especially not in R1... but, it is not illogical.

CORNERBACK:
Duh. Yes x 1000.

SAFETY:
Golden has played well, but he an upgrade is definitely in order. I like Su'a Cravens at 25. (Note: I also like Karl Joseph on day two).

OUTSIDE LINEBACKER:
There's Bud Dupree, an aging Silverback, an underwhelming Jarvis Jones, and a possible in Chickllo. Considering that the Steelers need a pass rush, an OLB would not be a "bad" choice (although, I'd bet that they wait a year to see if Jones and Chickillo pan out).

INSIDE LINEBACKER:
No

RUNNING BACK:
No

WIDE RECEIVER:
No

TIGHT END:
There's not really a guy worthy of a R1 pick.

SUMMATION:
I would prefer Kenny Clark (DL) or Su'a Cravens (SS). But, I would obviously be fine with a CB, and I can see the logic in drafting a LG or an OLB.

Mojouw
01-19-2016, 03:16 PM
I don't think that there is really many positions that you can take off of Pittsburgh's draft board.

D-LINE:
I'm not going to spend any time arguing NT, but there can definitely be an upgrade there. Billings and Robinson make is D-line stout on the first two downs. Kenny Clark is my favorite, because he can play two downs at NT, and then be a part of the rotation at DE.

O-LINE:
Beachum is gone. Foster is most likely gone. Is Hubbard the answer? The good news for most of you (who do not want an O-lineman taken in R1) is that there is not an "obvious" LG in this draft; there is no DeCastro. But, there are plenty of OT converts.

QUARTERBACK:
I could see a backup being groomed. This would not surprise me. I'm not for it, especially not in R1... but, it is not illogical.

CORNERBACK:
Duh. Yes x 1000.

SAFETY:
Golden has played well, but he an upgrade is definitely in order. I like Su'a Cravens at 25. (Note: I also like Karl Joseph on day two).

OUTSIDE LINEBACKER:
There's Bud Dupree, an aging Silverback, an underwhelming Jarvis Jones, and a possible in Chickllo. Considering that the Steelers need a pass rush, an OLB would not be a "bad" choice (although, I'd bet that they wait a year to see if Jones and Chickillo pan out).

INSIDE LINEBACKER:
No

RUNNING BACK:
No

WIDE RECEIVER:
No

TIGHT END:
There's not really a guy worthy of a R1 pick.

SUMMATION:
I would prefer Kenny Clark (DL) or Su'a Cravens (SS). But, I would obviously be fine with a CB, and I can see the logic in drafting a LG or an OLB.



I think it will be the same as the last 3 drafts. They will take the highest rated "falling" guy. I also think that OLB is a high possibility early in this draft. I think they have learned their lesson with Jarvis Jones. They backed themselves into a corner there and drafted for "need". I don't think Colbert is going to put himself there again. He will, if anything, draft a year early for an upcoming "need". With Harrison gone in a year at most, Jones' option up in a year. That would leave the Steelers with Dupree, Moats, and Chickillio. That is at least one OLB short.

Long story short, I will be shocked if the Steelers do not draft an OLB in the first 3 rounds this year.

Steelman
01-19-2016, 04:34 PM
Is the FO and staff high on Chickillo? With Harrison mulling retirement, depth at OLB is thin even before Jones presumably leaves after his contract is up. Maybe they find a veteran like Moats to fill that the need instead of through the draft this time.

Teegs, I'd be interested to hear your take on Cravens. I personally am not real high on him, way too much of a project player for a 1st rounder, especially with the DL talent that will be available at #25.

steelreserve
01-19-2016, 05:30 PM
Dupree is supposed to be the next Porter/Harrison. Jones or Moats can be the next Clark Haggans, which is all they have to be. If we keep throwing draft picks at OLB as a band-aid, guess what, we're going to keep being disappointed. With some good line play, that can happen. The great pass-rushing linebackers of our past teams had THREE dominant defensive linemen, not two plus a scrub. As far as OLB goes, we've got to trust that we've probably got the guys we need on the roster already.

Psycho Ward 86
01-19-2016, 06:21 PM
would have been nice if we didnt try to skimp on Shaq Barrett's rookie contract, moving him to the broncos, or kept HoJo.

Having just one of those guys would have been such a boon for our OLB depth.


Yeah yeah i know everyone misses on draft picks oh wait they werent even drafted...

Born2Steel
01-19-2016, 07:55 PM
Where did HoJo end up?

Drazo85
01-19-2016, 08:15 PM
Where did HoJo end up?
Buccaneers I think.

teegre
01-19-2016, 09:53 PM
I think it will be the same as the last 3 drafts. They will take the highest rated "falling" guy. I also think that OLB is a high possibility early in this draft. I think they have learned their lesson with Jarvis Jones. They backed themselves into a corner there and drafted for "need". I don't think Colbert is going to put himself there again. He will, if anything, draft a year early for an upcoming "need". With Harrison gone in a year at most, Jones' option up in a year. That would leave the Steelers with Dupree, Moats, and Chickillio. That is at least one OLB short.

Long story short, I will be shocked if the Steelers do not draft an OLB in the first 3 rounds this year.

Melding this topic (OLB) with another topic from another thread...

Someone mentioned that maybe the Steelers should be trying to "win now", and get an impact defensive player. There is a guy who would be a "steal" at 25, but could also be a complete bust: Noah Spence.

Spence has top 5 talent, but major baggage (drug addiction, run-ins with the law). These types of guys can usually hold it together for one season... but, long-term, they almost always implode. It would essentially be "rent a player" type of thing, with almost no hope for him to be there in the future.

Mind you, I'm not advocating this; I am merely bringing up an interesting "would you...???" scenario, in order to foster a discussion.

teegre
01-19-2016, 10:46 PM
Teegs, I'd be interested to hear your take on Cravens. I personally am not real high on him, way too much of a project player for a 1st rounder, especially with the DL talent that will be available at #25.

I see Cravens as a perfect weapon for the modern NFL.

Is is he an ILB? OLB? SS?
The answer is: Yes.

A few years ago, when the Steelers drafted Sean Spence, I predicted that they'd use him in an LB/SS type of role. Then, he destroyed his leg, and that plan was shelved. Still, LeBeau wanted to have a LB/SS so badly, that he played Troy there for a while. When the Steelers drafted Shazier, I was positive that that is how they'd use him... and, they still might.

Anyway, Cravens is the perfect type of player to cover a TE. He is fast like a SS, but big like a LB. More importantly, imagine the types of blitzes that you could run if you have Shazier and Cravens in the field. Cravens drops back, and Shazier blitzes... or, Shazier drops into coverage, and Cravens blitzes.

Taking packages and/or schemes out of it, Cravens started as a CB... and played well. He switched to SS... and played well. Then, he switched to OLB... and played well. He's just this spectacular athlete, who you can ask to do just about anything on the field... and he will do it well.

hawaiiansteeler
01-19-2016, 11:47 PM
I see Cravens as a perfect weapon for the modern NFL.

Is is he an ILB? OLB? SS?
The answer is: Yes.

A few years ago, when the Steelers drafted Sean Spence, I predicted that they'd use him in an LB/SS type of role. Then, he destroyed his leg, and that plan was shelved. Still, LeBeau wanted to have a LB/SS so badly, that he played Troy there for a while. When the Steelers drafted Shazier, I was positive that that is how they'd use him... and, they still might.

Anyway, Cravens is the perfect type of player to cover a TE. He is fast like a SS, but big like a LB. More importantly, imagine the types of blitzes that you could run if you have Shazier and Cravens in the field. Cravens drops back, and Shazier blitzes... or, Shazier drops into coverage, and Cravens blitzes.

Taking packages and/or schemes out of it, Cravens started as a CB... and played well. He switched to SS... and played well. Then, he switched to OLB... and played well. He's just this spectacular athlete, who you can ask to do just about anything on the field... and he will do it well.

Su'a Cravens could be used a lot like how the Arizona Cardinals currently employ Deone Bucannon.

and what I really like about selecting Cravens is we could trade down into the high second round and pick up an extra 3rd round pick from another team and still have him be there on the board for us...

teegre
01-20-2016, 01:46 AM
Su'a Cravens could be used a lot like how the Arizona Cardinals currently employ Deone Bucannon.

and what I really like about selecting Cravens is we could trade down into the high second round and pick up an extra 3rd round pick from another team and still have him be there on the board for us...

Yes, YES, YES!!!

As you know, the guy that I wanted in the 2014 draft was Bucannon. Now you have me pumped up!!!


You know, as far as trading down goes, I just checked a few mock drafts, and many of them have Cravens going around 50ish. Either I'm way off (very possible) in thinking he's a good value at 25, or everyone else is waaaay off. I've always thought that he'd be perfect at about 31 ( :wink02: )... but, 50??? No way.

I still say that he goes 25-35, but if they are indeed correct that his value is around 50... what if...

25: Kenny Clark, DT, UCLA
58: Su'a Cravens, SS, USC

86WARD
01-20-2016, 07:17 AM
If Cravens can cover a TE, he's a must draft for this team...lol.

Mojouw
01-20-2016, 10:53 AM
Here is my prediction for the draft, super vague, but I bet I get the "plan" right:

1. Highest rated talent on the board regardless of position
2. Best defensive player on the board
3. Big, tall, fast, WR w/ supposedly suspect hands and/or concentration
4. Interior OL
5. Boykin
6. Rotational DE
7. Dart throw at DB or maybe a Punter
7. Annual "Gronk Lite" TE that no one really thinks will make the team

hawaiiansteeler
01-20-2016, 12:07 PM
Here is my prediction for the draft, super vague, but I bet I get the "plan" right:

1. Highest rated talent on the board regardless of position
2. Best defensive player on the board
3. Big, tall, fast, WR w/ supposedly suspect hands and/or concentration
4. Interior OL
5. Boykin
6. Rotational DE
7. Dart throw at DB or maybe a Punter
7. Annual "Gronk Lite" TE that no one really thinks will make the team

you can scratch that rotational DE off your list since we have no 6th round selection this year due to the Josh Scobee trade...

Mojouw
01-20-2016, 12:15 PM
you can scratch that rotational DE off your list since we have no 6th round selection this year due to the Josh Scobee trade...

Forget that one. So move that to one of the 7th round selections then.

Mojouw
01-20-2016, 12:28 PM
I see Cravens as a perfect weapon for the modern NFL.

Is is he an ILB? OLB? SS?
The answer is: Yes.

A few years ago, when the Steelers drafted Sean Spence, I predicted that they'd use him in an LB/SS type of role. Then, he destroyed his leg, and that plan was shelved. Still, LeBeau wanted to have a LB/SS so badly, that he played Troy there for a while. When the Steelers drafted Shazier, I was positive that that is how they'd use him... and, they still might.

Anyway, Cravens is the perfect type of player to cover a TE. He is fast like a SS, but big like a LB. More importantly, imagine the types of blitzes that you could run if you have Shazier and Cravens in the field. Cravens drops back, and Shazier blitzes... or, Shazier drops into coverage, and Cravens blitzes.

Taking packages and/or schemes out of it, Cravens started as a CB... and played well. He switched to SS... and played well. Then, he switched to OLB... and played well. He's just this spectacular athlete, who you can ask to do just about anything on the field... and he will do it well.

Looking at the Broncos comments that most of their offensive calls were keyed on where Shazier lined up (remind anyone here of anyone else that recently wore a Steelers uni?) and it instantly springs to mind that adding another player in that mold - could make this defense really hard to gamelan.

Also it would seem to fit with the Steelers recent trend in the draft. Identify and obtain players with high end physical traits and figure out where and how they fit on the football field later.

However, if this kid is half the athlete everyone says he is, no way he stays with a second round grade all the way through the pre-draft process.

SteelerFanInStl
01-20-2016, 12:33 PM
Looking at the Broncos comments that most of their offensive calls were keyed on where Shazier lined up (remind anyone here of anyone else that recently wore a Steelers uni?) and it instantly springs to mind that adding another player in that mold - could make this defense really hard to gamelan.

Also it would seem to fit with the Steelers recent trend in the draft. Identify and obtain players with high end physical traits and figure out where and how they fit on the football field later.

However, if this kid is half the athlete everyone says he is, no way he stays with a second round grade all the way through the pre-draft process.

Yep. As soon as he hits the Combine, he'll shoot up the list.

teegre
01-20-2016, 12:59 PM
Looking at the Broncos comments that most of their offensive calls were keyed on where Shazier lined up (remind anyone here of anyone else that recently wore a Steelers uni?) and it instantly springs to mind that adding another player in that mold - could make this defense really hard to gamelan.

Also it would seem to fit with the Steelers recent trend in the draft. Identify and obtain players with high end physical traits and figure out where and how they fit on the football field later.

However, if this kid is half the athlete everyone says he is, no way he stays with a second round grade all the way through the pre-draft process.

He reminds me of Ed Reed in the sense that he always just seems to be around interceptions and fumbles. Some of them are lucky, but a lot of it is the law of averages: if one is around the ball enough, one is bound to get more interceptions (than another player who is twenty yards away from the play).. and, Cravens is always around the ball.

He also reminds me of Troy, in that he can basically line up anywhere. There really isn't a position for him. Speaking of which, going back 20 years, Derrick Thomas never really had a position; Cowher played 10-man defense and let Thomas do whatever the hell he wanted. Ten years later, Cowher did the same thing with Troy (10-man defense plus Troy being Troy).

Imagine playing 9-man defense, with Shazier and Cravens doing whatever the hell they want. :lust:

STOCK:
I think that his playing OLB dropped his stock. But, I'm sure that once the actual process starts, he will rise up draft boards and go somewhere around 25-35.

hawaiiansteeler
01-27-2016, 11:31 PM
Melding this topic (OLB) with another topic from another thread...

Someone mentioned that maybe the Steelers should be trying to "win now", and get an impact defensive player. There is a guy who would be a "steal" at 25, but could also be a complete bust: Noah Spence.

Spence has top 5 talent, but major baggage (drug addiction, run-ins with the law). These types of guys can usually hold it together for one season... but, long-term, they almost always implode. It would essentially be "rent a player" type of thing, with almost no hope for him to be there in the future.

Mind you, I'm not advocating this; I am merely bringing up an interesting "would you...???" scenario, in order to foster a discussion.

2016 Senior Bowl Practices

And the player who had arguably the best day overall was Spence (6-3, 254). None of the offensive tackles had an answer for his edge quickness. He was sudden off the snap with the get-off speed to breeze past blockers, winning the corner and flattening to the pocket. Even Le'Raven Clark, who boasts massive arms (36 1/4 inches) and wingspan (86) and has done a nice job this week, couldn't hang with Spence's quickness around the edge. The former Ohio State and Eastern Kentucky pass rusher entered the week as the top prospect overall on my top-50 draft board and he has lived up to that high-billing.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/25464403/senior-bowl-defensive-line-dominates-south-wednesday-practice

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/25458239/nfl-draft-top-50-draft-board-10

teegre
01-27-2016, 11:59 PM
2016 Senior Bowl Practices

And the player who had arguably the best day overall was Spence (6-3, 254). None of the offensive tackles had an answer for his edge quickness. He was sudden off the snap with the get-off speed to breeze past blockers, winning the corner and flattening to the pocket. Even Le'Raven Clark, who boasts massive arms (36 1/4 inches) and wingspan (86) and has done a nice job this week, couldn't hang with Spence's quickness around the edge. The former Ohio State and Eastern Kentucky pass rusher entered the week as the top prospect overall on my top-50 draft board and he has lived up to that high-billing.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/25464403/senior-bowl-defensive-line-dominates-south-wednesday-practice

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/25458239/nfl-draft-top-50-draft-board-10

Yep.
His talent is undeniable.

What is interesting is that the top three OLBs in this draft come with huge question marks.

Myles Jack: knee
Jaylon Smith: knee
Noah Spence: drug addiction

Mojouw
01-28-2016, 12:31 PM
Yep.
His talent is undeniable.

What is interesting is that the top three OLBs in this draft come with huge question marks.

Myles Jack: knee
Jaylon Smith: knee
Noah Spence: drug addiction

It should be pointed out that the Steelers used to have a serious trend of drafting guys in the first round who plummeted due to injuries. Not saying that will repeat itself, but it used to be Colbert's "thing".

teegre
01-28-2016, 12:35 PM
It should be pointed out that the Steelers used to have a serious trend of drafting guys in the first round who plummeted due to injuries. Not saying that will repeat itself, but it used to be Colbert's "thing".

True.

Myles Jack is the "safest" in that his injury occurred early enough (September) that he'll be ready for opening day.

Jaylon Smith probably will have to have a red-shirt year (his injury occurred at his bowl game).

Noah Spence isn't injured; and, he has look phenomenal at the Senior Bowl, but he could go south with one bender. Addiction is such a beast.

Mojouw
01-28-2016, 12:49 PM
True.

Myles Jack is the "safest" in that his injury occurred early enough (September) that he'll be ready for opening day.

Jaylon Smith probably will have to have a red-shirt year (his injury occurred at his bowl game).

Noah Spence isn't injured; and, he has look phenomenal at the Senior Bowl, but he could go south with one bender. Addiction is such a beast.

Is it just pot or is he keen on something a bit more serious?

teegre
01-28-2016, 12:59 PM
Is it just pot or is he keen on something a bit more serious?

Ecstacy


After that, once he was clean, he had several incidents with being drunk in public. Simply, the kid has an addictive personality. He's tried and tried, and to his credit, he is currently clean. But, I'm afraid that eventually drugs (or even alcohol) will be his downfall.

SteelerFanInStl
01-28-2016, 05:01 PM
Yea, throw millions of dollars at someone with a drug addiction. I'll have to say "no thanks" to that one. I don't see it ending well.

hawaiiansteeler
01-28-2016, 05:09 PM
Yea, throw millions of dollars at someone with a drug addiction. I'll have to say "no thanks" to that one. I don't see it ending well.

the Chiefs Justin Houston failed a drug test at the Combine and I would say he's doing pretty well...

SteelerFanInStl
01-28-2016, 05:13 PM
the Chiefs Justin Houston failed a drug test at the Combine and I would say he's doing pretty well...

There's a big difference between just failing a drug test and someone who's a known addict.

Mojouw
01-28-2016, 05:19 PM
Ecstacy


After that, once he was clean, he had several incidents with being drunk in public. Simply, the kid has an addictive personality. He's tried and tried, and to his credit, he is currently clean. But, I'm afraid that eventually drugs (or even alcohol) will be his downfall.

I don't know anything about the player or his off-field incidents. Certainly they are reason for caution. But how many college kids have tried ecstasy? How many have gotten cited for drunk in public? Again, not excusing the individual, just pointing out that the overwhelming majority of the college age population (his peer group for comparison sake) has done either or both of these "transgressions".

I think you hit the nail on the head, it is not that any single incident is bad - it is a problem when a pattern of behavior exists.

teegre
01-28-2016, 06:01 PM
I don't know anything about the player or his off-field incidents. Certainly they are reason for caution. But how many college kids have tried ecstasy? How many have gotten cited for drunk in public? Again, not excusing the individual, just pointing out that the overwhelming majority of the college age population (his peer group for comparison sake) has done either or both of these "transgressions".

I think you hit the nail on the head, it is not that any single incident is bad - it is a problem when a pattern of behavior exists.

Drug use and college students go together like peanut butter and jelly.

Alas, the last part describes Spence's situation.

Mojouw
01-28-2016, 06:14 PM
Drug use and college students go together like peanut butter and jelly.

Alas, the last part describes Spence's situation.

Unfortunate. He sounds like a monster though on the field.

Texasteel
01-29-2016, 08:38 AM
Yes, YES, YES!!!

As you know, the guy that I wanted in the 2014 draft was Bucannon. Now you have me pumped up!!!


You know, as far as trading down goes, I just checked a few mock drafts, and many of them have Cravens going around 50ish. Either I'm way off (very possible) in thinking he's a good value at 25, or everyone else is waaaay off. I've always thought that he'd be perfect at about 31 ( :wink02: )... but, 50??? No way.

I still say that he goes 25-35, but if they are indeed correct that his value is around 50... what if...

25: Kenny Clark, DT, UCLA
58: Su'a Cravens, SS, USC

I believe in my heart that on draft day Cravens will fall in the first round. Cravens at 25, I think, would be a good pick. I've been mentioning this kids name for months now. If he falls further than that, and we can get him cheaper, good, I still want him.

25. Cravens
58. Sheldon Rankins
90. Artie Burns or Deiondre Hall ( another Northern Iowa kid. )

Texasteel
01-29-2016, 08:50 AM
I don't know anything about the player or his off-field incidents. Certainly they are reason for caution. But how many college kids have tried ecstasy? How many have gotten cited for drunk in public? Again, not excusing the individual, just pointing out that the overwhelming majority of the college age population (his peer group for comparison sake) has done either or both of these "transgressions".

I think you hit the nail on the head, it is not that any single incident is bad - it is a problem when a pattern of behavior exists.

He didn't just try Ecstasy, he was addicted to it, and went through treatment for it. From all I hear he is now clean of it. How ever, his drinking tells me he may not be clean of the addiction, but looking for a substitute for it. That can be a disastrous formula. I thought he was one of the most talented players in collage. Clean, we wouldn't even be talking about him lower that 10.

SteelersProfessor
01-29-2016, 10:24 AM
If Spence slips down the board? If he makes it to us in round 2 someone better pull a hamstring running the podium with our draft card.

hawaiiansteeler
01-29-2016, 04:09 PM
Unfortunate. He sounds like a monster though on the field.

Noah Spence, DE/OLB, Eastern Kentucky: The value of the quarterback position pushes Wentz atop this list but Spence was the most dynamic player competing this week at the Senior Bowl. Whether lining up as a traditional hand-in-the-dirt defensive end or out of the two-point stance, the 6-foot-3, 254 pound Spence was unstoppable, at times, exploding upfield and around tackles to harass the South Team's quarterbacks. The former five-star recruit and Ohio State standout comes with a checkered past and must continue the positive momentum he's created this year all the way to April 28. If he does so, it is hard to imagine too many club's passing on the draft's most explosive pass rusher.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/25466171/senior-bowl-five-studs-and-duds-from-the-week-of-practice

hawaiiansteeler
01-30-2016, 12:07 AM
Scouts pick Miller, Wentz as Senior Bowl standouts

Posted by Zac Jackson on January 29, 2016

https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/cd0ymzcznguwzdbhnduynddiytjhm2yyzthlmtjjotqwyyznpt uznwqxmwmwytrlodiwytm5mdlhmzu4odrmzdy5otcx-e1454103190799.jpeg?w=228

Former Ohio State star Braxton Miller is trying to complete a transformation from quarterback to wide receiver and be an impact player in the NFL.

He probably made some money this week.

A panel of NFL scouts and Senior Bowl personnel voted the dynamic Miller as the top practice performer. Hundreds of NFL coaches, scouts and personnel execs watched three days of NFL-type practices this week in Mobile, Ala.

Also voted as top performers at their respective positions were Carson Wentz of North Dakota State, top quarterback; Kenneth Dixon of Louisiana Tech, top running back; Sterling Shepard of Oklahoma, top wide receiver; Jason Spriggs of Indiana, top offensive lineman; Noah Spence of Eastern Kentucky, top defensive lineman; Reggie Ragland of Alabama, top linebacker; Harlan Miller of Southeast Louisiana, top defensive back; and Jeff Overbaugh of San Diego State, top specialist.

Former Browns general manager Phil Savage, the Senior Bowl’s CEO, has worked to make the event more scout-friendly and to boost the game’s overall profile, and these awards are a part of that. Savage said earlier in the week he believes Wentz could be drafted in the top 10. Miller was a two-time Big Ten Player of the Year as a running quarterback before playing receiver in his fifth year last fall.

ESPNU televised two days of practice sessions live, and NFL Network will air the Senior Bowl game live Saturday at 2:30 p.m. ET.

The North team is coached by the Cowboys staff. The Jaguars, who have the rather dubious distinction of coaching in the Senior Bowl for a third consecutive year, are coaching the South.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/29/scouts-pick-miller-wentz-as-senior-bowl-standouts/

teegre
01-30-2016, 08:53 AM
Unfortunate. He sounds like a monster though on the field.

Ultimately, what I fear is a Stanley Wilson situation.

16 sacks in the regular season, 4 in the playoffs, he's looking like the next generation of LT... aaannnddd... we find him dancing around his hotel room, high on Molly, the night before the SuperBowl.

teegre
01-30-2016, 09:43 AM
I believe in my heart that on draft day Cravens will fall in the first round. Cravens at 25, I think, would be a good pick. I've been mentioning this kids name for months now. If he falls further than that, and we can get him cheaper, good, I still want him.

25. Cravens
58. Sheldon Rankins
90. Artie Burns or Deiondre Hall ( another Northern Iowa kid. )

ROUND 1:
I was 100% on the Cravens bandwagon, until the Denver game... where McClendon and Cam Thomas allowed the Broncos to drive right down the field. After that, a DL became my #1 priority (specifically Kenny Clark).

That said... a DL in R2 would be an upgrade over those two. So, Cravens it is.

ROUND 2:
I haven't really seen much of Sheldon Rankins. Before I had kids, I would have. Now... I know more about Raffi than I do Rankins. :lol:

Rankins... Adolphus Washington... Vernon Butler... Bigguy Whatshisface...

ROUND 3:
Artie Burns is a great story. Whether he's drafted by the Steelers or not, I'll be rooting for him to succeed.

BigNastyDefense
01-30-2016, 10:06 AM
I wouldn't mind a corner in the first at all, someone who can play on the outside and be at least close to a #1 corner for the next 8-12 years.

If Ohio State's Von Bell slips to the middle of the second round, I'd love to see the Steelers trade up to nab him.

Golson will probably be our nickel corner next season. Gay and maybe Fuller on the outside, and let Bell fight in camp for the SS spot against Golden and maybe Doran Grant (I've read a few times that they're thinking about moving him to S, and he could play either S or CB in certain situations).

hawaiiansteeler
01-30-2016, 10:55 AM
I haven't really seen much of Sheldon Rankins.

Sheldon Rankins, DT, Louisville, 6-2, 304, 4.93, Senior: Rankins lacks ideal bulk. But there isn't a defensive tackle in this class with a better combination of agility and active hands, which is why some scouts have compared him to Rams All-Pro Aaron Donald. That may be a bit hyperbole, but the value of interior pass rushers is nearing an all-time high given today's quick-hitting passing attacks. Rankins could enjoy a steady rise up boards as the draft approaches the same way that Donald did two years ago.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/25466400/nfl-draft-big-board-wentz-spence-boost-stock-at-senior-bowl-week

Mojouw
01-30-2016, 11:32 AM
ROUND 1:
I was 100% on the Cravens bandwagon, until the Denver game... where McClendon and Cam Thomas allowed the Broncos to drive right down the field. After that, a DL became my #1 priority (specifically Kenny Clark).

That said... a DL in R2 would be an upgrade over those two. So, Cravens it is.

ROUND 2:
I haven't really seen much of Sheldon Rankins. Before I had kids, I would have. Now... I know more about Raffi than I do Rankins. :lol:

Rankins... Adolphus Washington... Vernon Butler... Bigguy Whatshisface...

ROUND 3:
Artie Burns is a great story. Whether he's drafted by the Steelers or not, I'll be rooting for him to succeed.


Yeah, I noticed the DL crumbled on that drive as well. Here is the thing though, it was in Denver - at altitude late in the game. I don't think that it is necessary to get "Starter" quality guys across the Dline to fix the problem. They just need to get better back-ups/rotational guys. If the 2-3 main guys hadn't already played so many snaps during the season and that game in particular, I think they are fresher and honestly do believe that final drive doesn't happen - or at least not in the manner it did.

What am I trying to say? I am all for improving the quality of players in the Dline position group. Just not certain that it requires a 1st round pick/talent to correct the obvious problems. Certainly more than a drat throw in the 7th round or at UDFA, but maybe not the first draft pick.

hawaiiansteeler
01-30-2016, 12:11 PM
Yeah, I noticed the DL crumbled on that drive as well. Here is the thing though, it was in Denver - at altitude late in the game. I don't think that it is necessary to get "Starter" quality guys across the Dline to fix the problem. They just need to get better back-ups/rotational guys. If the 2-3 main guys hadn't already played so many snaps during the season and that game in particular, I think they are fresher and honestly do believe that final drive doesn't happen - or at least not in the manner it did.

What am I trying to say? I am all for improving the quality of players in the Dline position group. Just not certain that it requires a 1st round pick/talent to correct the obvious problems. Certainly more than a drat throw in the 7th round or at UDFA, but maybe not the first draft pick.

what do you think about the possibility of signing an UDFA like Haloti Ngata? I realize he's getting up there in age and is no longer the dominant player he once was, but he would still be an upgrade as a rotational player...

Shoes
01-30-2016, 12:14 PM
what do you think about the possibility of signing an UDFA like Haloti Ngata? I realize he's getting up there in age and is no longer the dominant player he once was, but he would still be an upgrade as a rotational player...

What would his cost be? I still think I'd like to pick up a DT in the draft as there seems to be some good ones.

Mojouw
01-30-2016, 12:21 PM
what do you think about the possibility of signing an UDFA like Haloti Ngata? I realize he's getting up there in age and is no longer the dominant player he once was, but he would still be an upgrade as a rotational player...

Hey, if the price is right - why not? I agree with Shoes and others, might as well draft one as well. Couldn't hurt to have the group look like this:

DE's - Heyward,Tuitt, Geathers, and McClendon
DT's - Ngata, McCullers, McClendon, Draft pick

Shoes
01-30-2016, 12:23 PM
Ngata cap hit is 8.5 mil

hawaiiansteeler
01-30-2016, 12:25 PM
What would his cost be? I still think I'd like to pick up a DT in the draft as there seems to be some good ones.

not sure what his asking price would be.

and I agree with you, I'm all for drafting a DT/DE also as this year's class of defensive linemen is the best and deepest it has been in many years.

I just think Ngata could serve as a good short-term stopgap until our newly drafted DL has time to develop...

Shoes
01-30-2016, 12:30 PM
not sure what his asking price would be.

and I agree with you, I'm all for drafting a DT/DE also as this year's class of defensive linemen is the best and deepest it has been in many years.

I just think Ngata could serve as a good short-term stopgap until our newly drafted DL has time to develop...

I surely agree with that, who knows he may make the money right to get revenge on the rats. :chuckle:

hawaiiansteeler
01-30-2016, 12:51 PM
Hey, if the price is right - why not? I agree with Shoes and others, might as well draft one as well. Couldn't hurt to have the group look like this:

DE's - Heyward,Tuitt, Geathers, and McClendon
DT's - Ngata, McCullers, McClendon, Draft pick

and hopefully LT Walton and/or Caushaud Lyons continue their development and are able to contribute next season...

Shoes
01-30-2016, 12:57 PM
Analyzing NFL.com’s Four Round Mock Draft

BY JOSH CARNEY (http://www.steelersdepot.com/author/jcarney_sports/) JANUARY 30, 2016 AT 12:25 PM
Now that the NFL Scouting Combine is the last major off-season event left on the schedule for potential NFL draft picks, NFL.com draft analyst Chad Reuter released his first four-round mock draft (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000629975/article/fourround-mock-draft-cowboys-grab-qb-wentz-at-no-4)Friday.
For the Pittsburgh Steelers, they have four picks through the first four rounds (No. 25, No. 58, No. 89 and No. 120.)

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/01/analyzing-nflcoms-four-round-mock-draft/

Galax Steeler
01-31-2016, 07:22 AM
Analyzing NFL.com’s Four Round Mock Draft

BY JOSH CARNEY (http://www.steelersdepot.com/author/jcarney_sports/) JANUARY 30, 2016 AT 12:25 PM
Now that the NFL Scouting Combine is the last major off-season event left on the schedule for potential NFL draft picks, NFL.com draft analyst Chad Reuter released his first four-round mock draft (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000629975/article/fourround-mock-draft-cowboys-grab-qb-wentz-at-no-4)Friday.
For the Pittsburgh Steelers, they have four picks through the first four rounds (No. 25, No. 58, No. 89 and No. 120.)

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/01/analyzing-nflcoms-four-round-mock-draft/

I like the pick of Apple, I have watched alot of film on him he for sure has the potential to be a good corner that we have been looking for.

hawaiiansteeler
01-31-2016, 11:26 AM
I like the pick of Apple, I have watched alot of film on him he for sure has the potential to be a good corner that we have been looking for.

if we go CB in Round 1(25):

Eli Apple Ohio St
Mackensie Alexander Clemson
Kendall Fuller Va Tech

teegre
01-31-2016, 12:13 PM
Yeah, I noticed the DL crumbled on that drive as well. Here is the thing though, it was in Denver - at altitude late in the game. I don't think that it is necessary to get "Starter" quality guys across the Dline to fix the problem. They just need to get better back-ups/rotational guys. If the 2-3 main guys hadn't already played so many snaps during the season and that game in particular, I think they are fresher and honestly do believe that final drive doesn't happen - or at least not in the manner it did.

What am I trying to say? I am all for improving the quality of players in the Dline position group. Just not certain that it requires a 1st round pick/talent to correct the obvious problems. Certainly more than a drat throw in the 7th round or at UDFA, but maybe not the first draft pick.

I hear you. The elevation probably played a factor.

But... my concern is that Heyward played 88% of the defensive snaps, and Tuitt played 78%.

I agree that it doesn't need to be a R1 pick (could be, but doesn't have to be). I would indeed like a guy who can take 60% of the snaps at the two DE positions, and do do effectively (every time Cam Thomas came into the field, there was a noticeable difference).

Heyward 75%
Tuitt 65%
rookie 60%

Series one and two:
Heyward - Tuitt

Series three:
Heyward - rookie

Series four:
rookie - Tuitt

Mojouw
01-31-2016, 12:22 PM
I hear you. The elevation probably played a factor.

But... my concern is that Heyward played 88% of the defensive snaps, and Tuitt played 78%.

I agree that it doesn't need to be a R1 pick (could be, but doesn't have to be). I would indeed like a guy who can take 60% of the snaps at the two DE positions, and do do effectively (every time Cam Thomas came into the field, there was a noticeable difference).

Heyward 75%
Tuitt 65%
rookie 60%

Series one and two:
Heyward - Tuitt

Series three:
Heyward - rookie

Series four:
rookie - Tuitt

I can totally agree with that. I just keep coming back to the fact that the pass rush needs improved (again) and the secondary needs at least one serious playmaker and another solid presence added to it. Not to mention depth at Oline, keeping the pipeline stocked at WR, and maybe a RB. That runs you out of draft picks real quick. To get that edge rusher and secondary playmaker, it will almost have to be in the first two rounds.

If you want a RB or a WR that can help in a real way year #1, that is your 3rd round pick. So now we are talking 4th round at the earliest for the DL.

I am starting to think that if the team simply thinks a rotational DE would help everyone else on the line (i.e. what Cam Thomas was intended to be), then free agency may be the way to go.

Of course, saying ALL of the above, if your sitting there late in the first round and the next line of scrimmage destroying 3-4 tackle is staring you in the face and 3 corners, 2 safeties, and 3 edge rushers are already off the board...

hawaiiansteeler
01-31-2016, 12:55 PM
I can totally agree with that. I just keep coming back to the fact that the pass rush needs improved (again) and the secondary needs at least one serious playmaker and another solid presence added to it. Not to mention depth at Oline, keeping the pipeline stocked at WR, and maybe a RB. That runs you out of draft picks real quick. To get that edge rusher and secondary playmaker, it will almost have to be in the first two rounds.

If you want a RB or a WR that can help in a real way year #1, that is your 3rd round pick. So now we are talking 4th round at the earliest for the DL.



I personally don't think we draft a RB or WR this year unless he can also double as a punt and/or kickoff returner such as Tyler Lockett of the Seahawks.

1(25) CB - Eli Apple or Kendall Fuller

2(58) SS - Vonn Bell or Karl Joseph

3(89) DT/DE - Sheldon Day or Javon Hargrave

4(120) OLB - Victor Ochi

7(202) QB- Cody Kessler

7(217) OT -Tyler Johnstone

Craic
01-31-2016, 03:36 PM
Here's a question.

How far does Jalen Ramsey have to drop before the Steelers trade up to get him? I have to admit, I'm interested in his hybrid ability. Gotta get a FA to fill the hole now, as I've been saying. But I wonder what we could do with someone that has the ability to play three defensive positions.

It's not like we've had that before . . . [/sarcasm]

teegre
01-31-2016, 04:11 PM
I can totally agree with that. I just keep coming back to the fact that the pass rush needs improved (again) and the secondary needs at least one serious playmaker and another solid presence added to it. Not to mention depth at Oline, keeping the pipeline stocked at WR, and maybe a RB. That runs you out of draft picks real quick. To get that edge rusher and secondary playmaker, it will almost have to be in the first two rounds.

If you want a RB or a WR that can help in a real way year #1, that is your 3rd round pick. So now we are talking 4th round at the earliest for the DL.

I am starting to think that if the team simply thinks a rotational DE would help everyone else on the line (i.e. what Cam Thomas was intended to be), then free agency may be the way to go.

Of course, saying ALL of the above, if your sitting there late in the first round and the next line of scrimmage destroying 3-4 tackle is staring you in the face and 3 corners, 2 safeties, and 3 edge rushers are already off the board...

I absolutely agree that the pass rush and pass defense need major upgrades. But...

1. Golson. Yes, the Steelers need a true #1 CB, but it would not surprise me if they go with Cockrell and Gay on the outside, and Golson in the slot. They'll draft a CB, but it might not be in R1 or R2.

2. I think that they need an OLB. But, I think that they'll give Jones one more shot. Meanwhile, Chickillo seems to be on the active roster for a reason. I'm assuming that they'll go with Dupree on one side, and Jones/Chickillo on the other side. (Harrison will play late in the season.) I would not mind a R1 or R2 pick used on an OLB, but I'd bet it's a R3 or R4 pick.

3. Most importantly, Butler runs a lot of sets with Heyward & Tuitt playing DTs.... lots and lots. Those are the two best players on defense. The problem is: they get tired. If you added one more elite DL to the mix, those two DLs do not get tired AND there is no "let down" when they do indeed need a rest.

I honestly see and condone a premier pick used on a DL.

hawaiiansteeler
01-31-2016, 06:19 PM
Here's a question.

How far does Jalen Ramsey have to drop before the Steelers trade up to get him? I have to admit, I'm interested in his hybrid ability. Gotta get a FA to fill the hole now, as I've been saying. But I wonder what we could do with someone that has the ability to play three defensive positions.

It's not like we've had that before . . . [/sarcasm]

it would take giving up all of our draft picks this year in order to move up to #11, so he would have to drop out of the top 10 for sure...

teegre
01-31-2016, 06:30 PM
Here's a question.

How far does Jalen Ramsey have to drop before the Steelers trade up to get him? I have to admit, I'm interested in his hybrid ability. Gotta get a FA to fill the hole now, as I've been saying. But I wonder what we could do with someone that has the ability to play three defensive positions.

It's not like we've had that before . . . [/sarcasm]

He shouldn't get past #4. He absolutely shouldn't get past #6.

Too expensive.

- - - Updated - - -


it would take giving up all of our draft picks this year in order to move up to #11, so he would have to drop out of the top 10 for sure...

Yep

IMO he's good, but not that good.

hawaiiansteeler
01-31-2016, 07:27 PM
I honestly see and condone a premier pick used on a DL.

this is definitely the year to draft a premier DL if you need one, NflDraftScout has 18 DT/DEs rated as 1st and/or 2nd round draft selections.

that's more than 1 out of every 4 players drafted in the first 2 rounds are projected to be defensive linemen, an amazing amount that's by far the highest % I've ever seen...

teegre
02-01-2016, 06:49 AM
this is definitely the year to draft a premier DL if you need one, NflDraftScout has 18 DT/DEs rated as 1st and/or 2nd round draft selections.

that's more than 1 out of every 4 players drafted in the first 2 rounds are projected to be defensive linemen, an amazing amount that's by far the highest % I've ever seen...

2001 had nine D-lineman drafted in the first round. Additionally, most of those guys were pretty darn good (Justin Smith, Richard Seymour, Casey Hampton).

There was similar depth, and nine more probably could have gone in R2... but, teams went elsewhere in that round, because, heck, there'd probably be a guy still available in later rounds (which there were: Derrick Burgess, Reggie Hayward, Chris Hoke).

Anyway... Yes, I agree that just like in 2001, there will be a plethora of DE/DTs from which to choose... and, many of them will have outstanding careers.

tube517
02-01-2016, 08:20 AM
2001 had nine D-lineman drafted in the first round. Additionally, most of those guys were pretty darn good (Justin Smith, Richard Seymour, Casey Hampton).

There was similar depth, and nine more probably could have gone in R2... but, teams went elsewhere in that round, because, heck, there'd probably be a guy still available in later rounds (which there were: Derrick Burgess, Reggie Hayward, Chris Hoke).

Anyway... Yes, I agree that just like in 2001, there will be a plethora of DE/DTs from which to choose... and, many of them will have outstanding careers.

I"d be happy with a Chris Hoke type in mid to later rounds. Probably the best backup NT ever.

hawaiiansteeler
02-01-2016, 11:55 AM
There was similar depth, and nine more probably could have gone in R2... but, teams went elsewhere in that round, because, heck, there'd probably be a guy still available in later rounds (which there were: Derrick Burgess, Reggie Hayward, Chris Hoke).


this is why I would look to draft one of these DL in either Round 3 or 4, there is so much depth that one of the higher rated guys the Steelers might have had a 2nd round grade on may very well fall....

teegre
02-01-2016, 02:36 PM
I"d be happy with a Chris Hoke type in mid to later rounds. Probably the best backup NT ever.

I'd take "Chris Hoke part II" in a heartbeat.

Alas, any R7 pick is much more likely to be Scrubman McCutbycamp.

teegre
02-01-2016, 02:48 PM
this is why I would look to draft one of these DL in either Round 3 or 4, there is so much depth that one of the higher rated guys the Steelers might have had a 2nd round grade on may very well fall....

Yes, we could probably get a R2 type of guy in R3 or R4, due to guys dropping/the position being flooded with talent. But, what I would like is a R1 talent, who drops to R2 (a la Kris Jenkins in 2001).

Speaking of 2001, I was hoping for:
R1: Drew Brees
R2: Kris Jenkins

But, I was 100% expecting:
R1: Dan Morgan
R2: Kris Jenkins

SUMMATION:
If the Steelers can get "Kris Jenkins part II" in R2, this defense will be stellar.

hawaiiansteeler
02-04-2016, 01:17 PM
Mike Tomlin reportedly liked DE Carl Nassib from Penn St at the Senior Bowl practices, he was the nation's leader in sacks and would be a Round 2 target:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/01/senior-bowl-practice-report-day-four/

Nadroj 20
02-04-2016, 01:30 PM
I wouldn't mind getting Eli Apple, but I'm a biased buckeye fan. We've had some success drafting Buckeyes though.

hawaiiansteeler
02-04-2016, 01:34 PM
I wouldn't mind getting Eli Apple, but I'm a biased buckeye fan. We've had some success drafting Buckeyes though.

would you please share your thoughts on Eli Apple?

Nadroj 20
02-04-2016, 01:52 PM
would you please share your thoughts on Eli Apple?

I like his coverage and he can stay with his WR pretty well and he has size and athleticism. I do think he needs to improve on his reaction to double moves and things like that. His speed and the fact he was playing college WR hid the fact that sometimes he got beat because he was able to recover.

One thing I will say is that he's getting and has the potential to get better. In my opinion he is a high ceiling type of guy. Really good work ethic.

Rotorhead
02-04-2016, 03:48 PM
The double moves are what kill us cough-Blake-cough but if he has the recovery speed for 90% of the WRs out there I will take it.

Psycho Ward 86
02-05-2016, 10:42 AM
Mike Tomlin reportedly liked DE Carl Nassib from Penn St at the Senior Bowl practices, he was the nation's leader in sacks and would be a Round 2 target:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/01/senior-bowl-practice-report-day-four/

where would he even fit on this team? 6'6'' seems far too tall for OLB

steelreserve
02-05-2016, 12:18 PM
Mike Tomlin reportedly liked DE Carl Nassib from Penn St at the Senior Bowl practices, he was the nation's leader in sacks and would be a Round 2 target:


SO glad to hear we're looking at more outside linebackers.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGwkxI_j0Dc

hawaiiansteeler
02-05-2016, 12:46 PM
where would he even fit on this team? 6'6'' seems far too tall for OLB

I think the Steelers would beef him up about 20 lbs and play him at DE.

Nassib was the nation's sack leader last season, something the Steelers are desperately looking for from their front 7. last year we were looking for DBs that could make interceptions and we drafted Golson and Holliman as a result. this year we are looking for increased QB pressure and who better to draft for help in that department than the nation's leader in sacks?

Shoes
02-05-2016, 02:03 PM
I think the Steelers would beef him up about 20 lbs and play him at DE.

Nassib was the nation's sack leader last season, something the Steelers are desperately looking for from their front 7. last year we were looking for DBs that could make interceptions and we drafted Golson and Holliman as a result. this year we are looking for increased QB pressure and who better to draft for help in that department than the nation's leader in sacks?

Agreed, he would be a great player to use when resting Cam & Stephon. I like the kid.

steelreserve
02-05-2016, 03:28 PM
this year we are looking for increased QB pressure and who better to draft for help in that department than the nation's leader in sacks?


A real defensive tackle, that's who.

Shoes
02-05-2016, 07:38 PM
I would consider giving up a future 1st rounder in 2017 and 2018 to get an extra 1st round this year. There are a lot of good players in this draft on both sides of the ball.

hawaiiansteeler
02-05-2016, 08:58 PM
A real defensive tackle, that's who.

Mike Tomlin was also reportedly enamored with La Tech DT Vernon Butler at the Senior Bowl:

Mike Tomlin eyeing defensive lineman at Senior Bowl practices

By: Curt Popejoy | January 27, 2016

Senior Bowl practices are in full swing, and that means the entire NFL is putting these young men under the microscope. For most NFL teams, this is the first opportunity to see these players in this sort of environment, and is invaluable for player assessment. Seeing how a player operates in a high-pressure setting like these practices, with all eyes on them, against the very best players in the country is a golden opportunity for all involved.

The Pittsburgh Steelers are in attendance and in full force at the Senior Bowl. Pittsburgh have multiple needs in the upcoming draft, not the least of which is defensive line. In this video taken at the Senior Bowl today we see Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin keeping a close eye on the defensive linemen going through their drills.

Former #LATech DT @Nino_Black_9 working out at the #SeniorBowl with #Steelers HC Mike Tomlin looking on.

https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/692110935536836609/pu/img/86v7wxWDf4s4Tpf6.jpg:small

In a general sense, it is great to see Tomlin keeping a close eye on the defensive lineman at the Senior Bowl. With both Cam Thomas and Steve McLendon free agents, it would be ideal to send both of them packing, and load the defensive line up with some legitimate rotational players to help out defensive ends Stephon Tuitt and Cameron Heyward.

In a more specific sense, the video shows Lousiana Tech defensive tackle Vernon Butler. If you haven’t heard of Butler yet, just pay attention, because he’s a near lock to be a first-round pick in the 2016 NFL draft. It’s doubtful he makes it to pick No. 25, but if he did, would make a no-brainer of a pick for the Steelers.

http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2016/01/27/mike-tomlin-eyeing-defensive-lineman-at-reeses-senior-bowl-practices/

Shoes
02-05-2016, 10:20 PM
Here's a list of DT.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2016/DT

Psycho Ward 86
02-05-2016, 11:58 PM
I think the Steelers would beef him up about 20 lbs and play him at DE.

Nassib was the nation's sack leader last season, something the Steelers are desperately looking for from their front 7. last year we were looking for DBs that could make interceptions and we drafted Golson and Holliman as a result. this year we are looking for increased QB pressure and who better to draft for help in that department than the nation's leader in sacks?


he weighs 258lb

Steeldude
02-06-2016, 05:14 AM
he weighs 258lb

I see him listed at 273. He would have to play DE, but most likely in a 4-3.

hawaiiansteeler
02-06-2016, 11:52 AM
I see him listed at 273. He would have to play DE, but most likely in a 4-3.

adding 20 lbs to his 273 lbs frame would put Nassib at 293 lbs, more than Brett Keisel who played at 285 lbs. 293 lbs is plenty big enough to play DE in a 3-4 defensive front, especially when he would be used mostly in passing situations.

GBMelBlount
02-06-2016, 06:55 PM
Round 1 - Steelers

Kevin Dodd
Clemson
OLB34
Reach/Value: +2 Height:
6'5"
Weight:

280 Alternate Pick #1
Scooby Wright

Alternate Pick #2
Noah Spence

The Steelers simply need more production from their outside rushers. While the team racked up a healthy 48 sacks last year, only 14 of these came from the outside. Dodd is leaving Clemson a year early after an impactful playoff run where he racked up four sacks in the Tiger's failed championship bid. Typical of players off a stacked college squad, it will be difficult for teams to parse how much of Dodd's success is a result of his talent and how much results from playing across the line from his star teammate, Shaq Lawson. Dodd only has a year of starting tape, but it shows a productive player against the run with 23.5 TFL, and a pass rusher who played with strength and speed on the way to 12 sacks. Teams will be looking at his Combine closely to validate his film and assess his skills to drop into coverage.

http://www.drafttek.com/2016-NFL-Mock-Draft-Round1b.asp

- - - Updated - - -

.



25. Pittsburgh Steelers: Taylor Decker, OT, Ohio State

Kelvin Beachum is an impending free agent. If he's not retained, something will need to be done about Ben Roethlisberger's pass protection, which was not pretty to close out the year.

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2016_1.php#ZRjceCZtBOjUZq2X.99

Steeldude
02-07-2016, 04:45 AM
adding 20 lbs to his 273 lbs frame would put Nassib at 293 lbs, more than Brett Keisel who played at 285 lbs. 293 lbs is plenty big enough to play DE in a 3-4 defensive front, especially when he would be used mostly in passing situations.

True, but if they use a first round pick on him what do they plan on doing with Heyward or Tuitt?

hawaiiansteeler
02-07-2016, 12:14 PM
True, but if they use a first round pick on him what do they plan on doing with Heyward or Tuitt?

you wouldn't have to use a 1st round pick on him, Nassib is projected to go in the 2nd round.

Nassib can be used in a rotation as a situational pass rusher so Heyward and Tuitt don't have to play as many snaps as they did this past season and he would be a great insurance policy in event of injury. also, Tuitt and Hewward are both very capable of lining up on the inside if you want to have them all on the field at the same time...

Shoes
02-07-2016, 03:53 PM
A bit of film on Nassib


http://draftbreakdown.com/video/carl-nassib-vs-buffalo-2015-2/

Mojouw
02-07-2016, 05:33 PM
A bit of film on Nassib


http://draftbreakdown.com/video/carl-nassib-vs-buffalo-2015-2/

So 8 minutes of a dude getting handled by a RT and a TE that will never see an NFL camp let alone play on Sundays? I know this guy is good. I know that most of the early reports are glowing. I also know that I really don't know what I'm looking for in terms of technique and all that, but based on the linked tape - I have one question? Who the hell is #99? That dude is consistently rocking his man back at the point of impact and is collapsing the interior of that O-line repeatedly.

hawaiiansteeler
02-07-2016, 05:58 PM
So 8 minutes of a dude getting handled by a RT and a TE that will never see an NFL camp let alone play on Sundays? I know this guy is good. I know that most of the early reports are glowing. I also know that I really don't know what I'm looking for in terms of technique and all that, but based on the linked tape - I have one question? Who the hell is #99? That dude is consistently rocking his man back at the point of impact and is collapsing the interior of that O-line repeatedly.

#99 for Penn St is Austin Johnson, one of my favorite DL in this draft: :thumbsup:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY6SoLUVAOI

Mojouw
02-07-2016, 06:38 PM
#99 for Penn St is Austin Johnson, one of my favorite DL in this draft: :thumbsup:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY6SoLUVAOI

I know the other guy projects as a better pass rusher, but Johnson looks like he could be a nice interior presence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Shoes
02-07-2016, 07:39 PM
So 8 minutes of a dude getting handled by a RT and a TE that will never see an NFL camp let alone play on Sundays? I know this guy is good. I know that most of the early reports are glowing. I also know that I really don't know what I'm looking for in terms of technique and all that, but based on the linked tape - I have one question? Who the hell is #99? That dude is consistently rocking his man back at the point of impact and is collapsing the interior of that O-line repeatedly.

He may slip to an early 3rd round but I doubt it.

Texasteel
02-07-2016, 09:10 PM
I know the other guy projects as a better pass rusher, but Johnson looks like he could be a nice interior presence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Johnson would be a nice 2nd round addition, but I like Butler better ( since it looks like Rankin is about to move out of our 2nd round area.). Butler looks to be quicker off the snap, and quicker in the backfield.

hawaiiansteeler
02-07-2016, 10:32 PM
Johnson would be a nice 2nd round addition, but I like Butler better ( since it looks like Rankin is about to move out of our 2nd round area.). Butler looks to be quicker off the snap, and quicker in the backfield.

Butler stood out at the Senior Bowl and Tomlin reportedly really liked him, he is pretty damn quick for a guy his size:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgOxjWwxtVo

86WARD
02-08-2016, 05:29 AM
Great...another guy with suddenness and glide...

steelreserve
02-08-2016, 10:42 AM
Again: We do not need another pass rusher. We need a big fat guy who can wreck up the play and free things up for the existing pass rushers. Who will then be pretty good, without spending any more draft picks on OLB that don't work.

Cam Thomas sucks. Steve McLendon sucks. Get those guys off the fucking field/off the fucking team. I don't care which round we take the fat guy in as long as it's not the what-the-hell pick at the end of the draft like we usually do. Earlier is better. Come on man, fuck this shit.

Psycho Ward 86
02-08-2016, 11:26 AM
Darian Thompson or Karl Joseph?

Drazo85
02-08-2016, 11:55 AM
Again: We do not need another pass rusher. We need a big fat guy who can wreck up the play and free things up for the existing pass rushers. Who will then be pretty good, without spending any more draft picks on OLB that don't work.

Cam Thomas sucks. Steve McLendon sucks. Get those guys off the fucking field/off the fucking team. I don't care which round we take the fat guy in as long as it's not the what-the-hell pick at the end of the draft like we usually do. Earlier is better. Come on man, fuck this shit.

Amen!

hawaiiansteeler
02-08-2016, 12:05 PM
Darian Thompson or Karl Joseph?

unless we sign a safety like Eric Weddle or Tashaun Gipson we do need to address this position early. Will Allen probably won't be re-signed and that leaves us with only Mitchell, Golden, Shamarko and Dangerfield as our safeties.

Darian Thompson was the best safety at the Senior Bowl and if we want him we would most likely have to draft him in Round 1. if not for Karl Joseph's injury he probably would have been a first rounder but I think the fact that he still won't be able to run at the Combine will push him down to Round 2 or 3...

Mojouw
02-08-2016, 01:31 PM
After watching the SB last night, I do not see how another pass rusher would be a bad thing. Jackson and Wolf are equaled by Tuitt and Heyward. Timmons and Shazier are more than equal to Trevethan and Marshall inside. Miller and Ware are FAR better than DuPree and ???? outside.

I don't remember Sly Williams really doing much more than McClendon does. NT is not the problem, it could be improved. The depth is terrible at the DLine.

The problems is that Miller and Ware can beat their blockers on an individual basis in a 3-4 and Dupree and Jones can not. Neither can Harrison or Moats. That's why all the Steelers sacks come from DBs and random other LBers. The outside rushers don't need double teamed to get stonewalled.

steelreserve
02-08-2016, 01:49 PM
After watching the SB last night, I do not see how another pass rusher would be a bad thing. Jackson and Wolf are equaled by Tuitt and Heyward. Timmons and Shazier are more than equal to Trevethan and Marshall inside. Miller and Ware are FAR better than DuPree and ???? outside.

I don't remember Sly Williams really doing much more than McClendon does. NT is not the problem, it could be improved. The depth is terrible at the DLine.

The problems is that Miller and Ware can beat their blockers on an individual basis in a 3-4 and Dupree and Jones can not. Neither can Harrison or Moats. That's why all the Steelers sacks come from DBs and random other LBers. The outside rushers don't need double teamed to get stonewalled.


Well, we can go back and forth about this forever, but as you know, I think it's more like our OLBs can't beat an offensive tackle one-on-one, who often has a running back or TE for help. Improve that matchup to a TE or a RB one-on-one and a merely decent player will do much better.

Sure, there are a handful of really special pass rushers who can dominate their man regardless, like Von Miller did last night - but I don't see us with the #2 overall draft pick any time soon, and the real can't-miss guys like that are all off the board way early. The guys we take at #18, #22, whatever, are all a dice-roll in that respect, so I'd rather we not use the first-round pick on that every year. Our options there are 1) Go 4-12 one year, 2) Get lucky with (one of many) non-Top 10 picks, or 3) Make your decent OLBs better by giving them help.

We're not going to get that one-of-a-kind dominant pass rusher at #25 in the draft unless we get really lucky. We're just not. So might as well focus on what we CAN control. It's worth mentioning that one thing Greg Lloyd, Joey Porter, James Harrison and every other dominant Steelers OLB had in common was an excellent defensive line across the board.

I don't want to argue this to eternity with you; I understand your side of it and I get it. This is more just general talking into the thread, if you know what I mean. And by the way - I am by no means insisting a nose tackle is the ONLY option, there are just a lot of good defensive linemen this year so it's worth considering, but DB help at either position would be just as important. If we do anything outside of that with our first pick, we'd better have either gotten the steal of the century or we need our heads examined.

Shoes
02-08-2016, 01:58 PM
I think we need both and hopefully it happens.

Shoes
02-08-2016, 02:05 PM
I would surely consider giving up our first round pick in 2017 & 2018 for an extra 1 rounder in this draft. If some team in the top six or so would take it.

Mojouw
02-08-2016, 02:48 PM
Well, we can go back and forth about this forever, but as you know, I think it's more like our OLBs can't beat an offensive tackle one-on-one, who often has a running back or TE for help. Improve that matchup to a TE or a RB one-on-one and a merely decent player will do much better.

Sure, there are a handful of really special pass rushers who can dominate their man regardless, like Von Miller did last night - but I don't see us with the #2 overall draft pick any time soon, and the real can't-miss guys like that are all off the board way early. The guys we take at #18, #22, whatever, are all a dice-roll in that respect, so I'd rather we not use the first-round pick on that every year. Our options there are 1) Go 4-12 one year, 2) Get lucky with (one of many) non-Top 10 picks, or 3) Make your decent OLBs better by giving them help.

We're not going to get that one-of-a-kind dominant pass rusher at #25 in the draft unless we get really lucky. We're just not. So might as well focus on what we CAN control. It's worth mentioning that one thing Greg Lloyd, Joey Porter, James Harrison and every other dominant Steelers OLB had in common was an excellent defensive line across the board.

I don't want to argue this to eternity with you; I understand your side of it and I get it. This is more just general talking into the thread, if you know what I mean. And by the way - I am by no means insisting a nose tackle is the ONLY option, there are just a lot of good defensive linemen this year so it's worth considering, but DB help at either position would be just as important. If we do anything outside of that with our first pick, we'd better have either gotten the steal of the century or we need our heads examined.

I can see that. This team needs all three, DL, DB, and OLB. I could care less what order and from where they come from. Just get them. Two more playmakers on defense and this team has an excellent chance to compete for another SB.

Rotorhead
02-08-2016, 03:53 PM
I think Dupree can be someone special, which will in turn make JJ better. I definitely think we need to get depth along the DL also. I would like us to get a CB in FA so we can draft our our DL depth (NT or otherwise, but I think McClendon would do better as a DT so I wouldn't be opposed to a good NT) I do think W Allen will be retained for one more season, he is at least a solid backup, I think Golden has surpassed him at this point and would be fine with Golden and Mitchell as our starters. Ideally we would have Cockrell and FA outside, Gay inside in the slot with Gay moving out and one of this years rookies replacing Gay in the slot on passing downs. Then we can draft a S and/or CB to groom for a year to replace people.

steelreserve
02-08-2016, 05:33 PM
As others have suggested, and I completely agree with, free agency is the place to look for a DB if we want help NOW. I like Allen as a backup and actually don't think he plays that badly when he doesn't have to babysit Blake - but with both in there, their mistakes compound each other. So I wouldn't mind having him AS A BACKUP. But Golden should be given the nod there unless we bring in someone new.

Defensive line is a place where a rookie could help us more immediately than DB. It's a lot harder to get used to covering NFL receivers; being a big fat guy who shoves people out of the way is a skill set that translates a lot quicker.

McLendon strikes me as a guy who for some reason, as long as he's on the team, he's going to be the starting nose tackle and we won't look for another guy who could be the starting nose tackle. So I hope we move on. He's always seemed like he'd make a very good 4-3 defensive tackle but just doesn't have what it takes to stand out as a nose tackle in a 3-4.

teegre
02-08-2016, 05:39 PM
Darian Thompson or Karl Joseph?

I am assuming that those are my only two options...

Darian Thompson is a FS. If they drafted him, I'd move Mitchell to SS (where I think he'd be a better fit anyway). As a SS, Mitchell's lack of coverage skills would be lessened and his penchant for contact would actually be an asset.

Karl Jospeh would be a SS. He's a thumper. But, he also has ball skills (he was leading the NCAA prior to his knee injury).

Thompson would have to be taken at 25.

Jospeh would be there in R2.

SUMMATION:
There are pros and cons to each of them.

fansince'76
02-09-2016, 09:29 AM
I think I read somewhere that Heyward had more snaps than any other 3-4 DE in the league and Tuitt never got much of a breather either. I think that in itself is reason enough to go after a DT fairly early...

LLT
02-09-2016, 10:44 AM
Im still leaning towards picking up a big name CB in free agency like Patrick Robinson...using the first pick for the BPA...and picking up a safety and TE in the 2nd and third round. A defensive end like 6'4 303 Matt Ioannidis of Temple would be nice in the 4th round.

I would actually like to see us trade OUT of the first round this year and accumulate picks.

With a trade we could look at a draft of:

FA pickup Patrick Robinson

2nd: SS Jeremy Cash of Duke 6'1 212
2nd: CB Xavien Howard of Baylor 6'1 200
3rd: TE Nick Vannett of Ohio State 6'6 256
3rd: DE Matt Ioannidis of Temple 6'4 303
4th: NT Hassan Ridgeway of Texas 6'3 320
6th: RB Leon Allen of Western Kentucky 5'11 235
7th: OG Isaac Seumalo of Oregon State 6'4 310
7th: OLB Curt Maggitt of Tennessee 6'3 256
7th: KR/WR J.D. McKissic of Arkansas State 5'10 193

steelreserve
02-09-2016, 11:23 AM
Im still leaning towards picking up a big name CB in free agency like Patrick Robinson...using the first pick for the BPA...and picking up a safety and TE in the 2nd and third round. A defensive end like 6'4 303 Matt Ioannidis of Temple would be nice in the 4th round.

I would actually like to see us trade OUT of the first round this year and accumulate picks.


If we signed a free agent corner, that would actually leave us with a glut of defensive backs if we drafted any more. Without a doubt, I think it's the right move, but remember we've got two guys who didn't play at all last year and hopefully will this year. So I think we draft a corner OR a safety early, but probably not both. Which one depends on where we see Golson playing, whether we move Grant to safety, and of course who we sign and who's available when we pick. I'm not even figuring Boykin into that because he's as good as gone, and Blake should be too.

A TE would be good in the middle rounds, but I like Austin Hooper from Stanford better if we can get him at #3; seems less raw and likely to do well coming from a pro-style offense. Vannett seems like Matt Spaeth II, which we don't need to spend a draft pick on. Still think we need a defensive lineman very early, as a question-mark/project guy isn't going to help right away and we'll still be left with two guys and a pile of crap. Basically if Heyward or Tuitt puts a foot wrong all year, it's an early exit for us.

Every offseason, people think it would be a great idea to trade out of the first round for more picks, but we haven't done that in 50 years, so I'm assuming we'll stay put.

BigNastyDefense
02-09-2016, 11:43 AM
I wouldn't be pissed if we took an OLB in the first round, but I think that means that the team knows that Jarvis Jones is a total bust and don't believe he can be salvaged (to end up signed by NE and become a star pass rusher). I watched Noah Spence at Ohio State, and if he could have stayed out of trouble he would likely be going in the top 12. I think Dupree is going to be pretty damn good, and if we could pair him with someone who can be pretty damn good (not Von Miller good, likely not finding someone like that outside of the top 10), I think our outside pass rush could be pretty damn good.

However, the Steelers need secondary help badly. There were a lot of plays this season on defense where our OLB's came close to getting to the QB, but because Blake sucks and Allen had to babysit him on coverage and the two of them combines is just not good, the QB knew he could go at those two and get a completion or at least not get picked off most likely. If we don't go CB in FA, but we can get a guy in the draft that'll make a QB think twice about throwing that way, and think twice about throwing at Gay, our guys can get there.

I wouldn't be against going CB/S in the first two rounds of the draft. Improve the secondary and outside linebacker sacks will come. That was part of Denver's success, they had three CB's that could take targets out of the game, and force the QB to hold onto the ball longer than they wanted to.

Born2Steel
02-09-2016, 12:37 PM
Im still leaning towards picking up a big name CB in free agency like Patrick Robinson...using the first pick for the BPA...and picking up a safety and TE in the 2nd and third round. A defensive end like 6'4 303 Matt Ioannidis of Temple would be nice in the 4th round.

I would actually like to see us trade OUT of the first round this year and accumulate picks.

With a trade we could look at a draft of:

FA pickup Patrick Robinson

2nd: SS Jeremy Cash of Duke 6'1 212
2nd: CB Xavien Howard of Baylor 6'1 200
3rd: TE Nick Vannett of Ohio State 6'6 256
3rd: DE Matt Ioannidis of Temple 6'4 303
4th: NT Hassan Ridgeway of Texas 6'3 320
6th: RB Leon Allen of Western Kentucky 5'11 235
7th: OG Isaac Seumalo of Oregon State 6'4 310
7th: OLB Curt Maggitt of Tennessee 6'3 256
7th: KR/WR J.D. McKissic of Arkansas State 5'10 193

I don't know much about the guys in your mock, but I do agree with one thing you said here. Trading out of the 1st for multiple picks is the way to go. This draft is deep on the defensive side of the ball.

hawaiiansteeler
02-09-2016, 01:02 PM
defensive linemen are the strength of this year's draft.

sign either a CB or a S in free agency and draft the other along with a DL in the first two rounds...

SteelMember
02-09-2016, 02:43 PM
defensive linemen are the strength of this year's draft.

sign either a CB or a S in free agency and draft the other along with a DL in the first two rounds...

Falcons released William Moore. Issue with him has been his health and durability. He would fit the "type" though.

teegre
02-09-2016, 03:06 PM
I think I read somewhere that Heyward had more snaps than any other 3-4 DE in the league and Tuitt never got much of a breather either. I think that in itself is reason enough to go after a DT fairly early...

Yep.

I've posted in several threads that Heyward played 88% of the defensive snaps, and Tuitt played 78%. By the end of the season, those two were exhausted (watch tape of them in September versus December).

Likewise, whenever Cam Thomas and/or Steve McClendon were in, teams would move the ball. Denver only scored one TD in the playoff game: when Thomas and McClendon were in.

SUMMATION:
A D-lineman woukd essentially be a starter/part of a rotation.

Heyward: 70% of the snaps
Tuitt: 65% of the snaps
rookie: 65% of the snaps

hawaiiansteeler
02-09-2016, 08:46 PM
Im still leaning towards picking up a big name CB in free agency like Patrick Robinson...using the first pick for the BPA...and picking up a safety and TE in the 2nd and third round. A defensive end like 6'4 303 Matt Ioannidis of Temple would be nice in the 4th round.


Matt Ioannidis, DE, Temple - 6'3-3/4", 303 lbs.

Looking for an ideal 3-4 Defensive End to back up Heyward and Tuitt? This is your guy. He's one of my favorite sleepers, especially since some very impressive showings at the Senior Bowl.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2016-nfl-mock-drafts-profiles-video-clips-highlights-steelers-analysis-breakdowns-news/2016/2/8/10933060/2016-pittsburgh-steelers-big-board-by-position

teegre
02-10-2016, 01:17 AM
defensive linemen are the strength of this year's draft.

sign either a CB or a S in free agency and draft the other along with a DL in the first two rounds...

Yep.
I would also add OLB into the fray.

FREE AGENCY:
Sign Weddle.

DRAFT:
DT/DE, OLB, CB
DT/DE, CB, OLB
CB, OLB, DT/DE
CB, DT/DE, OLB
OLB, DT/DE, CB
OLB, CB, DT/DE

hawaiiansteeler
02-10-2016, 01:42 PM
1(25) Pittsburgh Steelers: Vernon Butler, NT/DT, Louisiana Tech

Casey Hampton isn't walking through the tunnel anytime soon, which hurts for the Steelers because they were weak at nose tackle this past season. Perhaps they'll take one at the end of the first round this spring to bolster the interior of their defensive line.

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2016_1.php

Mojouw
02-10-2016, 01:49 PM
I know I sound like a broken record on this. I also know that there is a very good chance I am wrong about this. But the statement "weak at nose tackle" just strikes me as super lazy and potentially not even true.

Is McClendon in Hampton's league? Of Course not - who is? But Steelers Depot and other reputable sites have broken down the stats and McClendon (when on the field) spearheads a pretty darn good run defense. Pass rush impact harder to quantify. Folks talk about a NT "soaking up blocks", but I struggle to remember times when anyone was consistently double teaming a Steelers edge rusher.

I don't know. Improving the position could in no way be a bad thing. At worst, the new NT is a push and McClendon moves to DE and takes some burden off Tuitt and Heyward.

But in the run game, I think the current situation is fine. It is the pass rush that we are really talking about - at least for me. Question is, are the edge rushers kinda underwhelming because they are getting whacked by guys a dominant NT would take away, or are they still a toxic combination of raw, unathletic, and old?

teegre
02-10-2016, 03:54 PM
I know I sound like a broken record on this. I also know that there is a very good chance I am wrong about this. But the statement "weak at nose tackle" just strikes me as super lazy and potentially not even true.

Is McClendon in Hampton's league? Of Course not - who is? But Steelers Depot and other reputable sites have broken down the stats and McClendon (when on the field) spearheads a pretty darn good run defense. Pass rush impact harder to quantify. Folks talk about a NT "soaking up blocks", but I struggle to remember times when anyone was consistently double teaming a Steelers edge rusher.

I don't know. Improving the position could in no way be a bad thing. At worst, the new NT is a push and McClendon moves to DE and takes some burden off Tuitt and Heyward.

But in the run game, I think the current situation is fine. It is the pass rush that we are really talking about - at least for me. Question is, are the edge rushers kinda underwhelming because they are getting whacked by guys a dominant NT would take away, or are they still a toxic combination of raw, unathletic, and old?

Good post.

1) The NT position needs an upgrade.

2) If the Steelers had a NT like Casey the Hutt, it would indeed help the entire defense. Denver's defense is great, becayse Sylvester Williams is great.

That said...

3) The OLBs aren't beating their man 1:1. I truly believe that the Steelers need an upgrade at OLB, but I also think that they'll roll with Dupree, Jones, Chickillo, & Harrison

Most importantly...

4) The Steelers do not use many sets where they have a NT on the field, but they run a lot of sets where the DEs play as DTs. The two DEs never come off of the field. Hence, Heyward played 88% of the snaps, and Tuitt played 78%. A third DT/DE would essentially be a starter, akin to a third CB.

SUMMATION:
Drafting a DT/DE high is extremely important.
Drafting a "NT only"... not so much.

steelreserve
02-10-2016, 05:18 PM
I know I sound like a broken record on this. I also know that there is a very good chance I am wrong about this. But the statement "weak at nose tackle" just strikes me as super lazy and potentially not even true.

Is McClendon in Hampton's league? Of Course not - who is? But Steelers Depot and other reputable sites have broken down the stats and McClendon (when on the field) spearheads a pretty darn good run defense. Pass rush impact harder to quantify. Folks talk about a NT "soaking up blocks", but I struggle to remember times when anyone was consistently double teaming a Steelers edge rusher.

I don't know. Improving the position could in no way be a bad thing. At worst, the new NT is a push and McClendon moves to DE and takes some burden off Tuitt and Heyward.

But in the run game, I think the current situation is fine. It is the pass rush that we are really talking about - at least for me. Question is, are the edge rushers kinda underwhelming because they are getting whacked by guys a dominant NT would take away, or are they still a toxic combination of raw, unathletic, and old?


The way I see it is - without a dominant NT:

- Center blocks the nose tackle
- Guards block the ends or rushing ILBs
- Tackles block rushing OLBs or help with the DEs
- RB or TE provides extra help if called upon

With a dominant NT:

- Center and guard block the NT
- Guard and tackle go against one DE/OLB pair
- Tackle and TE or RB go against other DE/OLB pair
- If you are rushing the OLB on that side (or rushing both), you have an OLB 1-on-1 against someone who isn't a lineman
- If you rush an ILB and an OLB, you end up with either an OLB or DE 1-on-1 against someone who isn't a lineman
- Sometimes the NT pushes his way into the backfield and doesn't get the sack, but simply makes the QB move and the play's success rate plummets
- The only way to create these matchup problems consistently with no dominant NT is to sell out and rush an extra guy

Of course, there are all kinds of stunts and pulls and delayed rushes and other little minigames that are permutations of this, but that's the way it works in terms of just having the numbers on your side. I think what we were doing this year by using Tuitt and Heyward as DTs was either hoping they could occupy two guys apiece, or three between them and then hoping that we guessed right on where to rush the linebackers. Lower-percentage for sure, but speaks to those guys' strengths and Butler's ability to improvise.

Of course it would be best if we ended up with a DT who could also play DE if needed, but I'd also take a straight-up NT - I'm assuming we'd be smart enough to use McLendon as a rotational DE and get him out of that spot where he's a problem.

I am not concerned about an NT for the run game at all. If that's all it was about, we would be doing fine as-is.

Mojouw
02-10-2016, 09:39 PM
Cool stuff, Teegre and Steelreserve. I think you are swinging me into the NT camp. It may be a cascade of improvement. New "dominant DT". Old NT slides out to DE to help Tuitt and Heyward shoulder the load.

That being said, can we get a DT/NT in the 3rd or 4th that is able to have a Heyward/Tuitt like impact? Because if the team wants to improve OLB and CB/S, those have to be gotten in the 1st or 2nd.

Damn shame that McCullers isn't the beast I was hoping he was going to be. Really thought they stumbled on to something there.

teegre
02-10-2016, 10:16 PM
Cool stuff, Teegre and Steelreserve. I think you are swinging me into the NT camp. It may be a cascade of improvement. New "dominant DT". Old NT slides out to DE to help Tuitt and Heyward shoulder the load.

That being said, can we get a DT/NT in the 3rd or 4th that is able to have a Heyward/Tuitt like impact? Because if the team wants to improve OLB and CB/S, those have to be gotten in the 1st or 2nd.

Damn shame that McCullers isn't the beast I was hoping he was going to be. Really thought they stumbled on to something there.

There will indeed be guys in R3 and R4. But, IMO, I see the third DE as a starter (three-man rotation). Hence, I would be in favor of using a R1 pick on a DT/DE.

Chances are, it'll be R2... with the R1 pick being a "true" BPA: TE, OG, S, CB, OLB, et cetera.


Re: McCullers
As a rookie, in the Tennessee game, when he drove the OC backwards five full yards, I was like "STEAL!!!" Alas, that is his lone highlight.

Mojouw
02-11-2016, 12:09 PM
There will indeed be guys in R3 and R4. But, IMO, I see the third DE as a starter (three-man rotation). Hence, I would be in favor of using a R1 pick on a DT/DE.

Chances are, it'll be R2... with the R1 pick being a "true" BPA: TE, OG, S, CB, OLB, et cetera.


Re: McCullers
As a rookie, in the Tennessee game, when he drove the OC backwards five full yards, I was like "STEAL!!!" Alas, that is his lone highlight.

I still have hope for Big Mac. The DL coach has a track record of getting unknowns to play at a high level. I would be very interested to here some offseasons updates on the guy. Does he not play because he looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane? Does he still not "know" enough to get on the field due to poor recognition and/or technique? Is he just not any darn good? OR Is this another one of Mitchell's multi-year breakdown and build back up projects that is about ready to come online?

hawaiiansteeler
02-12-2016, 04:03 PM
Braxton Miller is coming out of Ohio State as a wide receiver after previously playing quarterback and that could make him a target for the Pats, as Edelman also played QB in college. Tony Pauline at Draftinsider.net reports that the Chiefs, Steelers and Patriots are interested in Miller.

Last season Miller combined for over 500 total yards on offense and depending on how he performs at the combine, he could be a first or second round pick in the draft.

http://www.sportsworldreport.com/articles/74282/20160212/new-england-patriots-rumors-matt-forte-free-agency-target-braxton-miller-draft-option-for-julian-edelman-depth.htm

Psycho Ward 86
02-12-2016, 04:14 PM
Braxton Miller is coming out of Ohio State as a wide receiver after previously playing quarterback and that could make him a target for the Pats, as Edelman also played QB in college. Tony Pauline at Draftinsider.net reports that the Chiefs, Steelers and Patriots are interested in Miller.

Last season Miller combined for over 500 total yards on offense and depending on how he performs at the combine, he could be a first or second round pick in the draft.

http://www.sportsworldreport.com/articles/74282/20160212/new-england-patriots-rumors-matt-forte-free-agency-target-braxton-miller-draft-option-for-julian-edelman-depth.htm

wtf why...

last year the Coates stuff made some sense since we werent sure if Bryant could put the doobies down but this? come on. if we draft a WR/TE early at least draft someone with polish who can help NOW. you never know when Ben will be done for good from here on out

86WARD
02-12-2016, 04:50 PM
Prefer not to use a first, second or third pick on a WR.

tube517
02-12-2016, 05:03 PM
WR who played QB. Steelers always show "interest"


We are stacked at WR for 2016 and have no 5th or 6th round picks. We really need to use these picks for defense and maybe OG.

steelreserve
02-12-2016, 05:12 PM
I still have hope for Big Mac. The DL coach has a track record of getting unknowns to play at a high level. I would be very interested to here some offseasons updates on the guy. Does he not play because he looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane? Does he still not "know" enough to get on the field due to poor recognition and/or technique? Is he just not any darn good? OR Is this another one of Mitchell's multi-year breakdown and build back up projects that is about ready to come online?


Who knows, but I wouldn't count on it.

Honestly, he seems to have more of the build of an offensive tackle than a nose tackle. OT you want to be tall with long arms so you can grapple with people and waste time to hold them at bay in the pass rush. NT you want to be built like a bowling ball to get leverage. Casey Hampton was the same weight as McCullers but 7 inches shorter. So I think McCullers is working from a big disadvantage, and while in college he may have held his own simply by being 60 pounds heavier than the center, in the NFL the linemen are bigger and used to dealing with opponents of all sizes.

He might do better as part of a 4-3 DT pair, as the run-stopping, space-hogging "anchor" in the middle while the other DT is the pass rusher. Kind of like Gilbert Brown with the Packers or Refrigerator Perry with the Bears (for that matter, McLendon might do well as the other DT in that situation). But that would mean being a single-purpose player in the neighborhood of 390 pounds, which doesn't fit too well in a pressure-oriented 3-4. Our staff had him drop weight and try to be a more athletic do-it-all DT. I don't think that's very likely to work either.

hawaiiansteeler
02-12-2016, 05:16 PM
gotta admit, this was one helluva spin move though:

http://i.imgur.com/W5s4B0N.gif

B&GFever
02-13-2016, 10:57 AM
when looking at NT the one question that must be answered before even considering it is this ...

is a guy who will play 1/3 of the snaps on defense going to ever merit the pick point is selected in the first round ?

if you answer no to that ( and most will )

the follow up question would have to be is the NT only on the field for 1/3 of the snaps now because of his limitations or by scheme design and the way the game has changed over the years ?

if you say by the current starters limitations it would merit looking deeper into , if by scheme design and how the game has changed then you are a fool to draft a NT in the first 2 rounds IMO

I personally think McLendon is a run of the mill NT neither bad nor really good , but when looking at the above I can not come away with a good feeling on drafting a replacement early and feeling like I got my moneys worth in terms of the amount of plays potentially effected by the new players presence that grade higher than what McLendon is capable of ..

15-18 snaps a game is all a new player would see at the nose if he plays every snap that we have a NT on the field , can he impact the play directly at a superior level than the current man 50% of the time and hold the line equally the other 50% ? I doubt it so for me a guy who only matters 7-8 plays a game and perhaps 50% of those are minuscule differences leaving just 3-4 plays with a measurable difference but still may not directly impact the play itself comes no place near worthy of a high pick when looking at complete team needs ... a solid CB can impact the game more on 1 pass play and is a greater need as is S and DE and one may even argue and interior O-Lineman based on our current depth and contract status of Foster ....

I too am nostalgic and remember the impact of Joel Stead and Big Snack but truth be told the way we play the 3-4 today vs high flying offenses those days are gone and we may never see that type of NT here again

teegre
02-13-2016, 01:42 PM
when looking at NT the one question that must be answered before even considering it is this ...

is a guy who will play 1/3 of the snaps on defense going to ever merit the pick point is selected in the first round ?

if you answer no to that ( and most will )

the follow up question would have to be is the NT only on the field for 1/3 of the snaps now because of his limitations or by scheme design and the way the game has changed over the years ?

if you say by the current starters limitations it would merit looking deeper into , if by scheme design and how the game has changed then you are a fool to draft a NT in the first 2 rounds IMO

I personally think McLendon is a run of the mill NT neither bad nor really good , but when looking at the above I can not come away with a good feeling on drafting a replacement early and feeling like I got my moneys worth in terms of the amount of plays potentially effected by the new players presence that grade higher than what McLendon is capable of ..

15-18 snaps a game is all a new player would see at the nose if he plays every snap that we have a NT on the field , can he impact the play directly at a superior level than the current man 50% of the time and hold the line equally the other 50% ? I doubt it so for me a guy who only matters 7-8 plays a game and perhaps 50% of those are minuscule differences leaving just 3-4 plays with a measurable difference but still may not directly impact the play itself comes no place near worthy of a high pick when looking at complete team needs ... a solid CB can impact the game more on 1 pass play and is a greater need as is S and DE and one may even argue and interior O-Lineman based on our current depth and contract status of Foster ....

I too am nostalgic and remember the impact of Joel Stead and Big Snack but truth be told the way we play the 3-4 today vs high flying offenses those days are gone and we may never see that type of NT here again

Let me put it this way:

A'Shawn Robinson might be the better Alabama D-lineman, but he's solely a NT. Whereas, Jarran Reed is more of a DT, who could also line up as a 3-4 DE. If both were available at 25, I'd take Reed.

And, Yes, I feel Reed would be worthy of the 25th pick.

Heyward 70% of the snaps.
Tuitt 70% of the snaps.
Reed 60% of the snaps.

B&GFever
02-13-2016, 04:31 PM
Let me put it this way:

A'Shawn Robinson might be the better Alabama D-lineman, but he's solely a NT. Whereas, Jarran Reed is more of a DT, who could also line up as a 3-4 DE. If both were available at 25, I'd take Reed.

And, Yes, I feel Reed would be worthy of the 25th pick.

Heyward 70% of the snaps.
Tuitt 70% of the snaps.
Reed 60% of the snaps.

I get that logic but at that point we are no longer talking about a NT but instead a DE , considering you have him at 60% of reps ( or did you just leave the NT snaps out ? )

I like Reed as a player but he is in the later 40's to mid 50s grade wise for me mid 2nd rounder your mileage may vary on where he grades out but when stacking up the draft class that is about where he lands on my table ...

I think there is a fairly good chance he is on the board when we pick in round 2 .

truth be told I think the best bang for your buck is probably Day from ND most look at him as a 4th round prospect and he can do all the things we would need for a swing end and a dozen or so snaps a game at the nose and if it where me making the decisions he is probably someone I would look to take a little early to be sure I got him so a small trade back in the 3rd picking up another 5th along the way to help offset the loss of our 5th in the process ...

hawaiiansteeler
02-13-2016, 05:00 PM
I like Reed as a player but he is in the later 40's to mid 50s grade wise for me mid 2nd rounder your mileage may vary on where he grades out but when stacking up the draft class that is about where he lands on my table ...

I think there is a fairly good chance he is on the board when we pick in round 2 .



Jarran Reed was virtually unblockable one on one at the Senior Bowl and Mike Mayock currently ranks him as the 4th best interior defensive lineman in this draft.

it's probably 50/50 that he'll still be on the board when we pick at 1(25), and zero chance he'll still be available at 2(58).

B&GFever
02-13-2016, 05:40 PM
Jarran Reed was virtually unblockable one on one at the Senior Bowl and Mike Mayock currently ranks him as the 4th best interior defensive lineman in this draft.

it's probably 50/50 that he'll still be on the board when we pick at 1(25), and zero chance he'll still be available at 2(58).


not basing it on Mike Mayocks impressions , basing it on my own during regular season tape from the last 2 years ...

Mike Mayock once claimed Eric Fisher was the best player in the draft also made the same claims of Aaron Curry and Robert Ayers ..while Fischer is not a bust isnt a great player either Ayers is decent but not all world and Curry ...well lets not go there as he was out of the league in like 3 years and did nothing while here ...

so while I think everyone screws up on picks because its not an exact science its a projection based on what someone did at a lower level of talent pool vs the best of the best ....

I personally like seeing what guys do at the combine and the SR bowl etc but I do not let it consume my opinion as much as some because 1 game and one weights n measures event and some football activities without pads do not make a player and reading to much into 1 single event is why you get some many busts IMO

hawaiiansteeler
02-13-2016, 06:53 PM
I think there is a fairly good chance he is on the board when we pick in round 2 .



I'll say Jarran Reed won't be on the board when we pick in Round 2.

winner gets bragging rights. do we have a bet?

polamalubeast
02-13-2016, 07:02 PM
This is Funny!!!!!

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=574592&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

hawaiiansteeler
02-13-2016, 08:13 PM
This is Funny!!!!!

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=574592&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I wouldn't want the Steelers to draft Lynch at 1(25), never mind trade up for him and give up their 2nd and 3rd round picks in addition...

teegre
02-13-2016, 08:51 PM
I get that logic but at that point we are no longer talking about a NT but instead a DE , considering you have him at 60% of reps ( or did you just leave the NT snaps out ? )

I like Reed as a player but he is in the later 40's to mid 50s grade wise for me mid 2nd rounder your mileage may vary on where he grades out but when stacking up the draft class that is about where he lands on my table ...

I think there is a fairly good chance he is on the board when we pick in round 2 .

truth be told I think the best bang for your buck is probably Day from ND most look at him as a 4th round prospect and he can do all the things we would need for a swing end and a dozen or so snaps a game at the nose and if it where me making the decisions he is probably someone I would look to take a little early to be sure I got him so a small trade back in the 3rd picking up another 5th along the way to help offset the loss of our 5th in the process ...

True... you caught me: I'm not really talking about a true NT.

I see the Steelers using a lot of nickel, wherein their DEs are the only D-linemen in the field. So, in essence, those DEs are more like DTs... which is why I feel that Reed is PERFECT for this role. Heyward, Tuitt, and Reed are all basically the same guy.

I disagree reed about Reed bring there in R2. In fact, I don't think he'll be there at 25. In today's passing league, he's a the commodity that teams cover: a run-stuffing DT who stays on the field on passing downs.

Of course... I've been wrong before :cough: Matt Elam :cough:

B&GFever
02-13-2016, 09:14 PM
I'll say Jarran Reed won't be on the board when we pick in Round 2.

winner gets bragging rights. do we have a bet?

you well may be right , but for me the gamble is worth it when Day can do the job we need done at a later selection point

hawaiiansteeler
02-13-2016, 11:12 PM
you well may be right , but for me the gamble is worth it when Day can do the job we need done at a later selection point

Sheldon Day has a lengthy injury history and lacks ideal size and point of attack strength, he projects much better as a penetrating 3-technique in a 4 man front.

not a good fit for the Steelers, imo...

B&GFever
02-14-2016, 07:27 AM
Sheldon Day has a lengthy injury history and lacks ideal size and point of attack strength, he projects much better as a penetrating 3-technique in a 4 man front.

opinion yours or off some website ?

I like to use my own eyes and opinions but I have noticed most of what you post on the draft has someone else s name attached to it or fingerprints all over it . example is what you claim of Day right out of the gate is word for word of CBS sports opening line of his " weaknesses " http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1984615/sheldon-day

so either you are quoting someone elses work seen through their eyes or you are in fact -Dane Brugler (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1984615/sheldon-day)

WEAKNESSES: Lengthy injury history, leaving durability in question. Lacks ideal size and point-of-attack ....... a little later in same profile we see this ..... projecting best as a penetrating three-technique in a four-man front.

wonder why you omitted the Aaron Donald comparison ? since technically speaking we where speaking more about a rotational DE that could play a dozen snaps a game at the nose ?

1 more question ...

was Hau'oli Kikaha drafted closer to the 1st or 3rd round last year ? (44th over all and proved to be one of the better OLB/DE prospects as a rookie ) those where my eyes

Yes I read profiles too , I like to know what others are seeing so when I watch the tape I have some notes to compare and I follow many of these higher profile draft guys on twitter and many of them follow me as well

have a great day everyone

teegre
02-14-2016, 09:19 AM
was Hau'oli Kikaha drafted closer to the 1st or 3rd round last year ? (44th over all and proved to be one of the better OLB/DE prospects as a rookie ) those where my eyes

If we're going to play that game...

Was Markus Golden closer to the Steelers' R2 pick... or, their R4 pick???

B&GFever
02-14-2016, 09:29 AM
If we're going to play that game...

Was Markus Golden closer to the Steelers' R2 pick... or, their R4 pick???


clearly their 2nd ( 2 picks later )

but do not believe there was any " bet yah's " involved and is the only reason the other was brought up cause the " bet yah " reared its head

Mojouw
02-14-2016, 11:07 AM
Oh yeah. This time of year. Who can watcxh the most film. And something about twittewr. Draft trutherism. Uggghhhh.

hawaiiansteeler
02-14-2016, 11:26 AM
1 more question ...

was Hau'oli Kikaha drafted closer to the 1st or 3rd round last year ? (44th over all and proved to be one of the better OLB/DE prospects as a rookie ) those where my eyes



what's up DWins? thought you had been banned...

so was Hau'oli Kikaha drafted in the first round? no, he wasn't which is the statement you made that I was refuting. 44th overall is not the first round as there are only 32 teams in the NFL.

you were wrong on that prediction but you were even more wrong on Markus Golden. you said he was going to be picked in the 4th round, yet he was chosen in Round 2. that makes your eyes 0-2 in predictions, pretty impressive stuff...

so back to my original statement before you tried to change the subject to cover up yet another incorrect statement that you made:

you said there was a good chance Jarran Reed would still be available when the Steelers select at 2(58) and I'm saying there is a zero chance.

so do we have a bet?

B&GFever
02-14-2016, 11:40 AM
what's up DWins? thought you had been banned...

so was Hau'oli Kikaha drafted in the first round? no, he wasn't which is the statement you made that I was refuting. 44th overall is not the first round as there are only 32 teams in the NFL.

you were wrong on that prediction but you were even more wrong on Markus Golden. you said he was going to be picked in the 4th round, yet he was chosen in Round 2. that makes your eyes 0-2 in predictions, pretty impressive stuff...

so back to my original statement before you tried to change the subject to cover up yet another incorrect statement that you made:

you said there was a good chance Jarran Reed would still be available when the Steelers select at 2(58) and I'm saying there is a zero chance.

so do we have a bet?

Dwins ? you sure ? or could it be someone who just knows how to read ??

you might want to revisit that thread and see what you said ... " nowhere near round 1 " 12 picks after is near ...

and what else was exactly , word for word ..... " Hau'oli Kikaha will not be a 3rd round pick , he could even go very late round 1 but most defiantly gone by round 2 ."

but hey don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument ...

I am not going down that rode with you , have a nice day ...I mean that really

hawaiiansteeler
02-14-2016, 11:43 AM
you might want to revisit that thread and see what you said ... " nowhere near round 1 " 12 picks after is near ...

and what I said exactly , word for word ..... " Hau'oli Kikaha will not be a 3rd round pick , he could even go very late round 1 but most defiantly gone by round 2 ."

but hey don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument ...

I am not going down that rode with you again , have a nice day ...I mean that really

straw man argument, what does this have anything to do with your Jarran Reed statement?

I'm saying Jarran Reed won't be available at 2(58), you claim there is a good chance that he will be. you continue to make ridiculous statements and I'm merely calling bullshit.

so do we have a bet or not?

B&GFever
02-14-2016, 11:51 AM
straw man argument, what does this have anything to do with your Jarran Reed statement?

I'm saying Jarran Reed won't be available at 2(58), you claim there is a good chance that he will be. you continue to make ridiculous statements and I'm merely calling bullshit.

so do we have a bet or not?

again you continue to twist words and make it up as you go along and what is with you always wanting to make bets anyways ? and then when you lose you throw out straw mans argument ...

I am not here to fight with you but clearly you can not take it when called out ...

go find me some more Dane Bugler quotes for the next player mentioned while I form my own opinions

now excuse me while I place you on ignore so I do not get pulled into this crap again

for the record what I said was this !

I like Reed as a player but he is in the later 40's to mid 50s grade wise for me mid 2nd rounder your mileage may vary on where he grades out but when stacking up the draft class that is about where he lands on my table ...

I think there is a fairly good chance he is on the board when we pick in round 2 .

hawaiiansteeler
02-14-2016, 12:17 PM
for the record what I said was this !

[U][B] I like Reed as a player but he is in the later 40's to mid 50s grade wise for me mid 2nd rounder your mileage may vary on where he grades out but when stacking up the draft class that is about where he lands on my table ...

I think there is a fairly good chance he is on the board when we pick in round 2 .



I know what you said, and I'm saying Jarran Reed will not be there when we pick in Round 2, how is that twisting your words? when you make incorrect statements that border on being absurd you should expect to get called on it...

so DWins, when you get banned from a message board like you did this one do you always just make a new alias and continue posting on that board anyway?

Mojouw
02-14-2016, 12:30 PM
Personally, I have him in the 833rd round on my draft board with a grade or 18 zork. I mean have you seen his 7th grade tape? Terrible hand placement.

hawaiiansteeler
02-14-2016, 12:37 PM
Personally, I have him in the 833rd round on my draft board with a grade or 18 zork. I mean have you seen his 7th grade tape? Terrible hand placement.

I have watched endless hours of tape on him in my film study room where I only zero in on him specifically and ignore all of the other players in the game.

and my eyes tell me he will go no later than the 832nd round...

Mojouw
02-14-2016, 01:30 PM
I have watched endless hours of tape on him in my film study room where I only zero in on him specifically and ignore all of the other players in the game.

and my eyes tell me he will go no later than the 832nd round...

Well. Those are clearly fighting words! I think we I will now begin to disparage your intellect and question your manhood.

hawaiiansteeler
02-14-2016, 01:47 PM
Well. Those are clearly fighting words! I think we I will now begin to disparage your intellect and question your manhood.

good thinking, now that you've got making the ridiculous statement part out of the way the next step is to get yourself banned from this message board and then just come back under a different alias to make more absurd statements.

teegre
02-14-2016, 09:27 PM
Let's focus on what we all agree upon: the need for a DT/DE.

Whether its Jarran Reed in R1 (or R4), or Sheldon Day in R4... there needs to be a third guy in that rotation. Heyward and Tuitt were worn out by season's end.

Sure, a R4 pick "could" be used to give the two of them a break, but IMO, in this defense, the rotational/third DE is essentially a starter. Hence, I am 100% behind the idea of using a R1 pick to fill that position.

The draft is deep with D-linemen; so, I do agree that there will be a stellar player available at 58. But, I disagree that a guy in R4 will have the same impact. Obviously, you can strike gold with guys like Aaron Smith and Geno Atkins, but the odds are that a R4 DE is more likely to be of the Ryan McBean ilk.

hawaiiansteeler
02-14-2016, 10:06 PM
for the record what I said was this !

I like Reed as a player but he is in the later 40's to mid 50s grade wise for me mid 2nd rounder your mileage may vary on where he grades out but when stacking up the draft class that is about where he lands on my table ...

I think there is a fairly good chance he is on the board when we pick in round 2 .


you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

I just find your opinions, draft tables and player evaluations to be about as worthless as a white crayon...

polamalubeast
02-15-2016, 09:37 AM
699251245215711232

steelreserve
02-15-2016, 11:15 AM
Let's focus on what we all agree upon: the need for a DT/DE.

Whether its Jarran Reed in R1 (or R4), or Sheldon Day in R4... there needs to be a third guy in that rotation. Heyward and Tuitt were worn out by season's end.

Sure, a R4 pick "could" be used to give the two of them a break, but IMO, in this defense, the rotational/third DE is essentially a starter. Hence, I am 100% behind the idea of using a R1 pick to fill that position.

The draft is deep with D-linemen; so, I do agree that there will be a stellar player available at 58. But, I disagree that a guy in R4 will have the same impact. Obviously, you can strike gold with guys like Aaron Smith and Geno Atkins, but the odds are that a R4 DE is more likely to be of the Ryan McBean ilk.


Couldn't agree more with this, unless it also said that Blake should be fired and beaten up, and Duff's Dawgs are the best hot dogs in San Diego.

A couple of months ago, I remember finding some stats on downs played by position, and one of McLendon, McCullers, and Cam Thomas was in on about two-thirds of the defensive snaps. Of course, since that thread was about arguing over the value of a nose tackle, it was countered with "But that also counts the times when one of them was subbing for Heyward or Tuitt at DE - we used a real nose tackle a lot less than that!"

But regardless of whether they were playing DE or a "true" NT, the fact is that one of those three (sub-par) players was on the field almost as much as our two star players on the defensive line. That sucks shit! The value is absolutely there for a DL pick, and half-assing it isn't going to get us anywhere. And in order to get the most out of it, we'd be best-served if it's someone who can at least play the nose some of the time.



With the 25th overall pick, the Steelers could very well pick this guy. So you better read up on him. #Steelers https://t.co/pU3Y9yvl5e
— Alex Kozora (@Alex_Kozora) February 15, 2016


Much as I agree that safety is a need for us, I hope we don't do this. As good of a collegiate program as Boise State is, I can only think of a handful of their players that have succeeded in the NFL. Maybe they max out their potential in college, or maybe something doesn't translate so well to the pro game. Maybe this guy is the real deal, but I'd still be nervous.

Plus, out of the three positions of need (S, CB, DL), I think safety is the one where we would do at least OK with the guys we have; Golden and Mitchell as the starters would be acceptable.

I think the real key for the defensive backfield is for Blake to GTFO - when he's not in there, the safeties look better, and the other corners look better too. If Tomlin continues to start him despite being THE WORST player in the league, it will continue to be a struggle no matter what else we do to shore up those positions.

hawaiiansteeler
02-15-2016, 12:07 PM
for the record what I said was this !

I like Reed as a player but he is in the later 40's to mid 50s grade wise for me mid 2nd rounder your mileage may vary on where he grades out but when stacking up the draft class that is about where he lands on my table ...

I think there is a fairly good chance he is on the board when we pick in round 2 .



you're wrong...again.

NFL Rumors - Feb 15 Updates:

Denver loves Alabama’s Jarran Reed. - Charlie Campbell, WalterFootball.com

http://www.walterfootball.com/nflrumors#v1y3dL1z3psdVLvc.99

1(16) Detroit Lions: Jarran Reed, DT, Alabama

Detroit let Ndamukong Suh and Nick Fairley leave last offseason, while Haloti Ngata showed signs of decline in 2015. Here, the Lions grab a physical defensive tackle to cause disruption next to Ziggy Ansah.

The 6-foot-3, 311-pound Reed was a powerful defender for Alabama at the point attack. He is a strong run defender who fills his gap and is tough to move. Reed isn't much of a pass-rusher though, but he has quickness and athleticism to improve at getting after the quarterback in the NFL.

In 2015, the senior totaled 53 tackles with 4.5 for a loss, one sack and two passes batted. As a junior in 2014, he had 55 tackles with 6.5 for a loss, one sack and five passes batted. Reed was a JUCO player before landing at Alabama.

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2016charlie.php#hG7R7zsP7U9EBc18.99

B&GFever
02-15-2016, 12:38 PM
omgz a walter football mock why even bother with a real draft since we know just how accurate these things are someone better inform the Broncos to make another SB ring up for Pouncey since Walter football had him going at 11 to Denver but far be it from YOU to form your own opinion you are constantly citing opinions of others and passing them off as fact or your own ... whatever dude get a life and yes you are on ignore but when I came to the site I was logged off and seen the post or wouldn't have a clue it existed .... http://walterfootball.com/draft2010.php


the exact science of an NFL draft is completely lost when guys like Antonio Brown are drafted in the final day and players like Ryan leaf and Jamarcus Russell go in the early 1st
(http://walterfootball.com/draft2010.php)

hawaiiansteeler
02-15-2016, 12:46 PM
omgz a walter football mock why even bother with a real draft since we know just how accurate these things are someone better inform the Broncos to make another SB ring up for Pouncey since Walter football had him going at 11 to Denver but far be it from YOU to form your own opinion you are constantly citing opinions of others and passing them off as fact or your own ... whatever dude get a life and yes you are on ignore but when I came to the site I was logged off and seen the post or wouldn't have a clue it existed .... http://walterfootball.com/draft2010.php

the exact science of an NFL draft is completely lost when guys like Antonio Brown are drafted in the final day and players like Ryan leaf and Jamarcus Russell go in the early 1st
(http://walterfootball.com/draft2010.php)

aren't you supposed to be banned?

I know for a fact Perry banned you when you posted under the name "Dwins", why do you think it's okay to simply create a new alias and come back to post again?

Mojouw
02-15-2016, 01:52 PM
None of this really matters. Consensus grades are going to change a ton between now and draft day. We have yet to identify this year's Mike Mamula.

If you stop and think about it - there is one player that just absolutely screams Colbert/Steelers in the first round and that is Jaylon Smith. High rated prospect with a major injury concern that drops on draft day. It has happened way to often before to reject out of hand. Now will Smith fall that far? I doubt it, but if he does I suspect Colbert and company will set a record to turn the card in to the Commish.

steelreserve
02-15-2016, 02:32 PM
If you stop and think about it - there is one player that just absolutely screams Colbert/Steelers in the first round and that is Jaylon Smith. High rated prospect with a major injury concern that drops on draft day. It has happened way to often before to reject out of hand. Now will Smith fall that far? I doubt it, but if he does I suspect Colbert and company will set a record to turn the card in to the Commish.


God, I hope not. Given the timing of that injury, I don't think it's likely he'll play at all next year. So - rookie season in 2017, contributing by 2018? Not what we need at this point in time. Not to mention, you already know my thoughts about drafting more linebackers #1.

Psycho Ward 86
02-15-2016, 02:40 PM
None of this really matters. Consensus grades are going to change a ton between now and draft day. We have yet to identify this year's Mike Mamula.

If you stop and think about it - there is one player that just absolutely screams Colbert/Steelers in the first round and that is Jaylon Smith. High rated prospect with a major injury concern that drops on draft day. It has happened way to often before to reject out of hand. Now will Smith fall that far? I doubt it, but if he does I suspect Colbert and company will set a record to turn the card in to the Commish.


Even though he has a good chance to be the BPA at 25, i dont see how we could possibly entertain the idea of having 5 ILB's who can start in this league.

If we cut Timmons, I could see it though

LLT
02-15-2016, 02:47 PM
omgz a walter football mock why even bother with a real draft since we know just how accurate these things are someone better inform the Broncos to make another SB ring up for Pouncey since Walter football had him going at 11 to Denver but far be it from YOU to form your own opinion you are constantly citing opinions of others and passing them off as fact or your own ... whatever dude get a life and yes you are on ignore but when I came to the site I was logged off and seen the post or wouldn't have a clue it existed .... http://walterfootball.com/draft2010.php




the exact science of an NFL draft is completely lost when guys like Antonio Brown are drafted in the final day and players like Ryan leaf and Jamarcus Russell go in the early 1st
(http://walterfootball.com/draft2010.php)

Rang has him going #12 overall...Brugler has him going #27...McShay has him going #11

Dwinsgames
02-15-2016, 03:06 PM
None of this really matters. Consensus grades are going to change a ton between now and draft day. We have yet to identify this year's Mike Mamula.

If you stop and think about it - there is one player that just absolutely screams Colbert/Steelers in the first round and that is Jaylon Smith. High rated prospect with a major injury concern that drops on draft day. It has happened way to often before to reject out of hand. Now will Smith fall that far? I doubt it, but if he does I suspect Colbert and company will set a record to turn the card in to the Commish.

not sure if the times are correct but reported time on Smith is a 4.65 -40 least from this site one would have to suspect it will be that or worse if even able to run so soon after reconstructive surgery on a significant knee injury so late in the year http://www.draftcountdown.com/nfl-draft-ranking/outside-linebacker-rankings/

Dwinsgames
02-15-2016, 03:30 PM
well respect draft annalist Josh Norris of rotoworld just released his big board , he is not claiming these will be the first 32 selections and is not a mock draft but claiming these are his top 32 players often times lower ranked players are selected ahead of them because teams do not have same rankings or have bigger needs than the best player left on the board at selection time https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbSRA46WEAAYo1a.jpg:large

hawaiiansteeler
02-15-2016, 03:48 PM
why even bother with a real draft since we know just how accurate these things are someone better inform the Broncos to make another SB ring up for Pouncey since Walter football had him going at 11 to Denver

Maurkice Pouncey went to the Steelers at #18 in the first round so Walter Football really wasn't that far off, now were they?

once again, FAIL! :jerkit:

steelreserve
02-15-2016, 04:03 PM
well respect draft annalist Josh Norris of rotoworld just released his big board , he is not claiming these will be the first 32 selections and is not a mock draft but claiming these are his top 32 players often times lower ranked players are selected ahead of them because teams do not have same rankings or have bigger needs than the best player left on the board at selection time


Funny that Jared Goff is right at #25, although that's certainly just coincidence. I know QB is far from a need for us, but if there's one college QB this year who I think is going to do well in the pros, he's it. Very impressive in the games I saw him play.

Make no mistake: I know we are never, ever going to do that. Just interesting to think about. Pretty sure if the Browns don't take him at #2 the 49ers will at #7 - although conceivably the Chargers could take him at #3 or the Cowboys at #4 in a move that makes everyone go "OHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

No, he's probably not a top-5 pick in most years, but this one looks VERY thin for quarterbacks and there are some desperate teams out there. A good career move for him to come out.

polamalubeast
02-15-2016, 07:36 PM
The Pick: Tackle Taylor Decker, Ohio State

The 2016 offseason will be a telling one for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Does general manager Kevin Colbert finally address the secondary with an early pick, or does he continue to build the middle of the roster through the first rounds of the draft while focusing on the edges with middle- and late-round gems?


With pick No. 25, it makes sense to add a cornerback or safety if the Steelers like the value, but the best player on the board is Ohio State’s Taylor Decker. That brings up an interesting decision, because Kelvin Beachum and Ramon Foster are both set to become free agents in March. Does Pittsburgh trust Alejandro Villanueva as its everyday left tackle?

Decker is currently the third-best left tackle in the class, and he has the tools to slide right onto the roster as a left or right tackle for Week 1, and the next five seasons


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2613603-2016-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-post-super-bowl-predictions/page/26


I will be very upset if the steelers select a offensive tackle(or a offensive players) in the first round.

The steelers need Defense!!!!

Mojouw
02-15-2016, 07:53 PM
Two things on Smith. The first is that he and his camp are really banging the drum that he can play at some point in this upcoming year. The second is that many are providing a spectrum of a Shazier to Patrick Willis for a comp. As to the 5 ILBs, I really only see 3 - Timmons, Shazier, and Williams. I think Spence would not hold up well as the starter. He seems to get lost in wash a bit too much. I may very well be wrong.

Taking all that in to consideration, give Timmons a 3 year deal - like Troy P - and then draft Smith. Then Tomlin has 2 "run and hit" LBers to build his defense around for the next 5 years.

Look, I am not saying that I think this should or will happen -- just that I would not fall out of my chair to hear that scenario come to pass on draft day. IF (a big if) Smith is everything they project he will be in the NFL, well maybe TEs will finally stop destroying this team.

Long story short, I can see a scenario where it goes down, but I really think it won't happen. That being said, when was the last draft that the Steelers ended up taking the "consensus" pick? Other than Pouncey and Jones it has been awhile.

Dwinsgames
02-15-2016, 08:05 PM
The Pick: Tackle Taylor Decker, Ohio State

The 2016 offseason will be a telling one for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Does general manager Kevin Colbert finally address the secondary with an early pick, or does he continue to build the middle of the roster through the first rounds of the draft while focusing on the edges with middle- and late-round gems?


With pick No. 25, it makes sense to add a cornerback or safety if the Steelers like the value, but the best player on the board is Ohio State’s Taylor Decker. That brings up an interesting decision, because Kelvin Beachum and Ramon Foster are both set to become free agents in March. Does Pittsburgh trust Alejandro Villanueva as its everyday left tackle?

Decker is currently the third-best left tackle in the class, and he has the tools to slide right onto the roster as a left or right tackle for Week 1, and the next five seasons


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2613603-2016-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-post-super-bowl-predictions/page/26


I will be very upset if the steelers select a offensive tackle(or a offensive players) in the first round.

The steelers need Defense!!!!


Many thought the same of Mike Adams too , didn't quite work out that way though

GBMelBlount
02-15-2016, 08:56 PM
If Ben is upright and loaded with weapons we can win the super bowl with an average defense.

So while I would be fine with a defensive player in the first I am also ok with a left tackle or TE.

teegre
02-15-2016, 09:10 PM
Couldn't agree more with this, unless it also said that Blake should be fired and beaten up, and Duff's Dawgs are the best hot dogs in San Diego.

A couple of months ago, I remember finding some stats on downs played by position, and one of McLendon, McCullers, and Cam Thomas was in on about two-thirds of the defensive snaps. Of course, since that thread was about arguing over the value of a nose tackle, it was countered with "But that also counts the times when one of them was subbing for Heyward or Tuitt at DE - we used a real nose tackle a lot less than that!"

But regardless of whether they were playing DE or a "true" NT, the fact is that one of those three (sub-par) players was on the field almost as much as our two star players on the defensive line. That sucks shit! The value is absolutely there for a DL pick, and half-assing it isn't going to get us anywhere. And in order to get the most out of it, we'd be best-served if it's someone who can at least play the nose some of the time.


Hold the phone... do you live in San Diego??? I knew that you were in SoCal, but I just now got the impression that you are a San Diegan.

You bring up an excellent point: it's not just the snaps at NT, it's the other snaps when McClendon/Thomas/McCullers were on the field. When one takes that into consideration (that someone besides Heyward and Tuitt see the field for that much time), a DT/DE becomes an obvious need.

As as far as the nose goes, Heyward has played there. That said, I'd love a guy who can play NT, but then slide over to rotate at DE.

GABU = gimme a big ugly

teegre
02-15-2016, 09:21 PM
Two things on Smith. The first is that he and his camp are really banging the drum that he can play at some point in this upcoming year. The second is that many are providing a spectrum of a Shazier to Patrick Willis for a comp. As to the 5 ILBs, I really only see 3 - Timmons, Shazier, and Williams. I think Spence would not hold up well as the starter. He seems to get lost in wash a bit too much. I may very well be wrong.

Taking all that in to consideration, give Timmons a 3 year deal - like Troy P - and then draft Smith. Then Tomlin has 2 "run and hit" LBers to build his defense around for the next 5 years.

Look, I am not saying that I think this should or will happen -- just that I would not fall out of my chair to hear that scenario come to pass on draft day. IF (a big if) Smith is everything they project he will be in the NFL, well maybe TEs will finally stop destroying this team.

Long story short, I can see a scenario where it goes down, but I really think it won't happen. That being said, when was the last draft that the Steelers ended up taking the "consensus" pick? Other than Pouncey and Jones it has been awhile.

Interesting.

Does anyone one know if Smith can play OLB?

Dwinsgames
02-15-2016, 09:34 PM
Interesting.

Does anyone one know if Smith can play OLB?


that is where most project him http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2016/OLB

teegre
02-15-2016, 11:18 PM
It should be noted that even the the best mock drafters only hit about 1/3 of their projections. It is an inexact science.

In other words, when one goes "all in" on pocket aces, sometimes the result is indeed hippo farts.

teegre
02-16-2016, 12:02 AM
@B&GFever

Let's assume that Reed is there st 58. (I think he's long gone, but since it's the off-season and there's little else to "actually" discuss...)

Reed is there at 58.
Do you take him?... or, wait for Sheldon Day in R4?



(Everyone else feel free to chime in, as well... obviously.)

hawaiiansteeler
02-16-2016, 12:11 AM
@B&GFever

Let's assume that Reed is there st 58. (I think he's long gone, but since it's the off-season and there's little else to "actually" discuss...)

Reed is there at 58.
Do you take him?... or, wait for Sheldon Day in R4?

(Everyone else feel free to chime in, as well... obviously.)

my opinion is that you run up to the podium as fast as you can with Jarran Reed's name on the card. Reed would present tremendous value at 2(58) and at 6'3" 311 lbs would be a perfect fit for the Steelers 3-4 defense with the positional versatility to play inside or outside.

polamalubeast
02-16-2016, 07:48 AM
If Ben is upright and loaded with weapons we can win the super bowl with an average defense.

So while I would be fine with a defensive player in the first I am also ok with a left tackle or TE.

We can,but It's very hard to win a Super Bowl with an average defense, especially than the steelers have been bad against the pass in the last few year.Very few team have won a Super Bowl with an average defense.

The Giants in 2011 and the Ravens in 2012 are maybe the only exceptions, but the Giants have playing better in defense late in the season and for the Ravens, Flacco was historically hot in the playoffs (11 TD, 0 INT in the playoffs in 2012).

It's very hard to score 30 points in the playoffs, so the Steelers must improve on defense(free agent and Draft) and not drafted an offensive player in the first few rounds.

Mojouw
02-16-2016, 11:16 AM
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2016/2/16/10937390/a-detailed-study-of-the-steelers-defensive-line-and-how-it-may-impact

Could really be its own thread - but has a tremendous impact on much of the discussions here. Seems to align with the thinking outlined on this thread that it doesn't really matter what position a DL plays, it matters how that player can impact the fronts and alignments that the Steelers can run. Impact enough of those and a first round pick is justified, be unable to do that and a player later in the draft becomes more likely.

Also interesting that the author indicates that Smith and Cravens could provide a similar amount of flexible impact at the LB level.

hawaiiansteeler
02-16-2016, 12:02 PM
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2016/2/16/10937390/a-detailed-study-of-the-steelers-defensive-line-and-how-it-may-impact

Could really be its own thread - but has a tremendous impact on much of the discussions here. Seems to align with the thinking outlined on this thread that it doesn't really matter what position a DL plays, it matters how that player can impact the fronts and alignments that the Steelers can run. Impact enough of those and a first round pick is justified, be unable to do that and a player later in the draft becomes more likely.

Also interesting that the author indicates that Smith and Cravens could provide a similar amount of flexible impact at the LB level.

good article and an interesting read.

thanks for posting...:drink:

steelreserve
02-16-2016, 12:21 PM
We can,but It's very hard to win a Super Bowl with an average defense, especially than the steelers have been bad against the pass in the last few year.Very few team have won a Super Bowl with an average defense.

The Giants in 2011 and the Ravens in 2012 are maybe the only exceptions, but the Giants have playing better in defense late in the season and for the Ravens, Flacco was historically hot in the playoffs (11 TD, 0 INT in the playoffs in 2012).

It's very hard to score 30 points in the playoffs, so the Steelers must improve on defense(free agent and Draft) and not drafted an offensive player in the first few rounds.


Seriously - fuck drafting a left tackle. We have one, possibly two guys with NFL experience coming back who can be the starter; another guy (Gilbert) who can be the backup, and a fourth guy (Adams) who has played there in the past - although not terribly well, we still actually have a fourth-string guy at the position. So why in the actual donkey fuck would we say "Welp, screw it, let's hand the job to a rookie and also toss out our first-round draft pick while we're at it!"

Same for a tight end; we have a good one with a year or two left, a promising rookie who could take over both a blocking and receiving role in some form, and a blocking TE that typically equates to about a fourth-round draft pick. There is one guy who is getting all the hype this year and is going to be horribly overdrafted, so that's a definite stay-away. If the guy from Stanford is around in Round 3, I'd take him, but he probably won't be and beyond that I'd say wait until next year.

Defense is what we need and this is the year to do it.

steelreserve
02-16-2016, 12:54 PM
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2016/2/16/10937390/a-detailed-study-of-the-steelers-defensive-line-and-how-it-may-impact

Could really be its own thread - but has a tremendous impact on much of the discussions here. Seems to align with the thinking outlined on this thread that it doesn't really matter what position a DL plays, it matters how that player can impact the fronts and alignments that the Steelers can run. Impact enough of those and a first round pick is justified, be unable to do that and a player later in the draft becomes more likely.

Also interesting that the author indicates that Smith and Cravens could provide a similar amount of flexible impact at the LB level.


That's very interesting, although partly confirms what we already know: 1) Occupying two gaps, or in other words, occupying two 300-pound men, is a difficult task; guys like Casey Hampton who can have their way with two 300-pound men are exceptionally, exceptionally rare; 2) Adding anyone talented along the defensive line is going to be a plus.

Butler's schemes have obviously done a lot to compensate for the shortcomings in our defense, which is good because it's rare that you're going to have all 11 solid starters. I still think it would be ideal if we had a bowling ball/Hampton type guy in the middle, and that such a player would not just be on the field 40-50% of the time, because as the author states, players that talented are a help to your defense in their own right, in multiple situations.

I most certainly DO think it would be a mistake to spend a high draft pick on the archetypical 350-pound "anchor" nose tackle who is just a fat person that serves the single purpose of stopping the run. By the same token, a 305-pound DE who can sort of play the nose - which you can find about 10x more of in the draft than Casey Hamptons - would still be a help to us. Heyward and Tuitt both have the size and athleticism to sort of play NT also, so having three guys like that would be formidable. Going back over the past two decades, Kiesel, A. Smith, and von Oelhoeffen all were capable of lining up at DT and did so often enough (and well enough) to be worth mentioning. Basically all of our good defensive linemen have been that way. What will not help much is a 285-pound DE that has to bulk up another 20 pounds to maybe play end in a 3-4. There is a subtle but hugely important difference between having that McLendon/Ziggy Hood type of frame that suits you for a 4-3, and a Heyward/Tuitt/A. Smith type of frame that suits you for a 3-4.

So - get Hampton 2.0 if he's there, if he's not then get Kiesel 2.0, and don't waste your time with the "anchor" DT, because yes, that actually is outdated and of limited use. If people think that's what I've been talking about this whole time, I can understand why they didn't want that. But it's not what I meant at all.

teegre
02-16-2016, 01:27 PM
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2016/2/16/10937390/a-detailed-study-of-the-steelers-defensive-line-and-how-it-may-impact

Could really be its own thread - but has a tremendous impact on much of the discussions here. Seems to align with the thinking outlined on this thread that it doesn't really matter what position a DL plays, it matters how that player can impact the fronts and alignments that the Steelers can run. Impact enough of those and a first round pick is justified, be unable to do that and a player later in the draft becomes more likely.

Also interesting that the author indicates that Smith and Cravens could provide a similar amount of flexible impact at the LB level.

Fantastic read.

The three tell-tale points:

--finding D-line depth and/or a rotation guy and/or a guy to play on sub-packages is a priority for the Steelers.

--a guy who can fill all four wants (five really) isn't going to happen after R2.

--if said D-lineman is not acquired, an injury to Heyward or Tuitt coukd affect Pittsburgh's SuperBowl chances.

SUMMATION:
Jarran Reed at 25



SMITH & CRAVENS:
Cravens was my #1 guy, until D-line became such a glaring need. So, adding him to my "want" list is easy.

If Smith can indeed play OLB, that would fill a need, as well as give the Steelers the flexibility to use him like the Chiefs did with Derrick Thomas: line up anywhere. You have convinced me to add him to my list.

1. Jarran Reed
2. Kenny Clark
3. Su'a Cravens
4. Vernon Butler
5. Jaylon Smith

polamalubeast
02-16-2016, 01:43 PM
699679022398181376

- - - Updated - - -

699679072373178368

Mojouw
02-16-2016, 02:32 PM
699679022398181376

- - - Updated - - -

699679072373178368

Which according to my "Colbert to English" dictionary means they don't plan on drafting anyone until the 6th round.

hawaiiansteeler
02-16-2016, 02:44 PM
Which according to my "Colbert to English" dictionary means they don't plan on drafting anyone until the 6th round.

we don't have a 6th round pick this year so thus we may be forced to draft a DB as high as the 4th round this year...:rolleyes:

steelreserve
02-16-2016, 02:47 PM
Colbert: "We have never neglected drafting in the secondary. It's just how it broke."
— Jason Mackey (@Mackey_PGH) February 16, 2016


No, that just means you didn't MEAN to neglect it, but it still happened.

Count Steeler
02-16-2016, 02:56 PM
Same thing happened to the O Line 6-7 years ago. Then the 1st and 2nd round picks were used on Pouncey, Gilbert, Adams and DeCastro. Beachum was a gift from the 7th round.

hawaiiansteeler
02-16-2016, 03:16 PM
Same thing happened to the O Line 6-7 years ago. Then the 1st and 2nd round picks were used on Pouncey, Gilbert, Adams and DeCastro. Beachum was a gift from the 7th round.

last year we used a 2nd on Golson, maybe this will be the year we use a 1st...

Dwinsgames
02-16-2016, 03:27 PM
sorry I call BS on Colbert's statement of not neglect just how it broke

so Byron Jones, Landon Collins ,Jalen Collins ,Jaquiski Tartt ,Eric Rowe, Ronald Darby where not options last year ? every one of these guys would have been a big upgrade at S or CB for us .

and that is just last year Colbert has been here how long exactly ? how many drafts ? how many 1st and second round corners combined has he selected ?

just how it broke my ass

hawaiiansteeler
02-16-2016, 03:34 PM
SUMMATION:
Jarran Reed at 25


why would we draft Jarran Reed at 1(25) when there is a good chance that he'll still be available at 2(58)? :rolleyes:

Mojouw
02-16-2016, 03:38 PM
It isn't true neglect (defined as NOT using ANY draft picks) but sort of a benign neglect lite.

Just like they did with the oline for years (as mentioned up thread) the Steelers selected a lineman or two almost every class. They just kept being guys like Tony Hills.

They have been taking players in the secondary for years now. They just stink. If Cortez Allen was playing like Ike Taylor (which the Steelers thought he would) and Shamarko was playing like almost anyone in the NFL but who he is - none of this would look so bad.

Not defending the team, they have a glaring issue here. But to level "neglect" - a bit too far.

hawaiiansteeler
02-16-2016, 04:11 PM
It isn't true neglect (defined as NOT using ANY draft picks) but sort of a benign neglect lite.

Just like they did with the oline for years (as mentioned up thread) the Steelers selected a lineman or two almost every class. They just kept being guys like Tony Hills.

They have been taking players in the secondary for years now. They just stink. If Cortez Allen was playing like Ike Taylor (which the Steelers thought he would) and Shamarko was playing like almost anyone in the NFL but who he is - none of this would look so bad.

Not defending the team, they have a glaring issue here. But to level "neglect" - a bit too far.

I wouldn't label it as "neglect", but addressing our defensive secondary hasn't been a high enough of a priority lately and it shows...

polamalubeast
02-16-2016, 04:15 PM
Steelers didn't mean to neglect secondary -- they won't this year


Choosing the best-player-available method over fulfilling a need, the Steelers have chosen linebackers in three straight first rounds of the NFL draft. While loading the front seven with talent, the Steelers won games in 2015 with a defensive backfield rotation that included no young draft picks of any kind. The only impact defensive back who was drafted by the Steelers, William Gay, was a fifth-rounder in 2007.

And so Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert approaches this year's draft with the proverbial "need" staring him in the face.

The Steelers didn't mean to neglect the secondary in the past.

"It's just how it broke," Colbert said.

The Steelers don't have to apologize for picking whom they thought were the best available in first rounds -- in recent years, that's meant Jarvis Jones, Ryan Shazier and Bud Dupree.

But they do need to upgrade a unit that, despite a few bright spots, ranked 30th in pass defense with 4,350 yards allowed. This much is obvious.

The Steelers pick 25th overall this year, meaning at least the top two corners will be off the board as the team selects.

The Steelers' approach is simple -- the five free agent defensive backs are still under consideration for re-signing and there's motivation to add more pieces.


read more


http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/17772/steelers-didnt-mean-to-neglect-secondary-it-wont-this-year

Dwinsgames
02-16-2016, 04:26 PM
since defense is the general consensus as to what should be looked at with our first round selection by most people here is a breakdown of the last 15 years first round picks on Defense

54 DT have been drafted in the first round since the 2000 draft through last year , that is about 3.6 per year on average

65 DE have been drafted in the first round during that same span or 4.33 per year on average

49 LBers during the span or 3.2 per year

90 DBs have been drafted round one over that same span or 6 per year on average

what does all this mean , I guess it depends on how you look at it .

it could tell you a lot of things , if you are drafting late and the player your have your eye on is ranked beyond the league average of that player pool for round one he will likely be there ( provided your big board is aligned the same as everyone else or reasonably close )

it could persuade you to try and trade back and still get your guy

or it could tell you just how many players in that specific area do not live up to their draft billing DB's are a pretty good example of such .

granted that is lumping in CB's and S the like into one player pool but we have not seen anywhere close to 90 star DBs in the last 15 years even with combining them all into one category and mind you this is just first round talent we are looking at here .

seems the percentage of hit /miss on DBs is rather highly slanted toward miss so odds of drafting a good one even when selecting them with a first round pick is touch and go to say the least .

anyways thought that may make this conversation a little more enlightened

steelreserve
02-16-2016, 04:53 PM
90 DBs have been drafted round one over that same span or 6 per year on average

what does all this mean , I guess it depends on how you look at it .

...

seems the percentage of hit /miss on DBs is rather highly slanted toward miss so odds of drafting a good one even when selecting them with a first round pick is touch and go to say the least .

anyways thought that may make this conversation a little more enlightened


Basically, DB, and cornerback in particular, is a coveted position, so every year the position is overdrafted and the Round 1 talent is taken in the top 15, and the guys with Round 2 talent go at the end of Round 1.

Puts us in an awkward spot, since that's usually where we end up picking. Unfortunately, I don't see a way to get ANY respectable talent at CB through the draft except by playing the same game as everybody else. Sit on the sidelines because the price is too high (like we do every year) and you're left to pick from the Round 6 talent that's available in Round 4, or UDFA talent in Round 5 or 6.

So while picking CBs early is a risky move, precisely THE ONLY way you can make your odds even worse is to not do it at all.

I do agree that CB is definitely a "boom or bust" position - similar to QB, once you reach the NFL you either get it or you don't. That compounds the risk even further but - as I mentioned, there's no way to get around doing it sooner or later, unless you always want your DBs to suck.

Dwinsgames
02-16-2016, 05:14 PM
good post @steelreserve , hard to disagree with it really its kind of like the lottery , you know your chances of winning are nearly nil but you still have to play to win

Count Steeler
02-16-2016, 05:21 PM
last year we used a 2nd on Golson, maybe this will be the year we use a 1st...

Of course, that 3rd round gem of Dri Archer was a great draft choice. Not like we could have used a warm body in the secondary.

hawaiiansteeler
02-16-2016, 06:13 PM
Of course, that 3rd round gem of Dri Archer was a great draft choice. Not like we could have used a warm body in the secondary.

I just pretend we used that draft choice on Ross Cockrell and I feel much better immediately...:chuckle:

Shoes
02-16-2016, 08:47 PM
It will be interesting to see when Munch will get his pick or two in the draft.

teegre
02-16-2016, 08:50 PM
since defense is the general consensus as to what should be looked at with our first round selection by most people here is a breakdown of the last 15 years first round picks on Defense

54 DT have been drafted in the first round since the 2000 draft through last year , that is about 3.6 per year on average

65 DE have been drafted in the first round during that same span or 4.33 per year on average

49 LBers during the span or 3.2 per year

90 DBs have been drafted round one over that same span or 6 per year on average

what does all this mean , I guess it depends on how you look at it .

it could tell you a lot of things , if you are drafting late and the player your have your eye on is ranked beyond the league average of that player pool for round one he will likely be there ( provided your big board is aligned the same as everyone else or reasonably close )

it could persuade you to try and trade back and still get your guy

or it could tell you just how many players in that specific area do not live up to their draft billing DB's are a pretty good example of such .

granted that is lumping in CB's and S the like into one player pool but we have not seen anywhere close to 90 star DBs in the last 15 years even with combining them all into one category and mind you this is just first round talent we are looking at here .

seems the percentage of hit /miss on DBs is rather highly slanted toward miss so odds of drafting a good one even when selecting them with a first round pick is touch and go to say the least .

anyways thought that may make this conversation a little more enlightened


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9d7oG4WTyY


Joking aside, thank you for crunching the numbers.

hawaiiansteeler
02-16-2016, 09:14 PM
It will be interesting to see when Munch will get his pick or two in the draft.

that probably depends on whether or not Ramon Foster and/or Kelvin Beachum re-sign...

teegre
02-16-2016, 09:23 PM
sorry I call BS on Colbert's statement of not neglect just how it broke

so Byron Jones, Landon Collins ,Jalen Collins ,Jaquiski Tartt ,Eric Rowe, Ronald Darby where not options last year ? every one of these guys would have been a big upgrade at S or CB for us .

and that is just last year Colbert has been here how long exactly ? how many drafts ? how many 1st and second round corners combined has he selected ?

just how it broke my ass

I'm assuming that you mean in R1, because those guys were all gone by the time that Pittsburgh drafted in R2.

I was fine with them taking an OLB, because the pass rush definitely needed an upgrade, as well. That said, personally, I was hoping for CB (Peters) then OLB (Hunter). As it was, the Steelers went OLB (Dupree) then CB (Golson)... and, Golson should be an upgrade over Blake.

In Colbert's defense, he actively tried to trade up for Landon Collins. The NYGiants decided that if the Steelers wanted Collins so badly, they might as well draft the kid for themselves.

Shoes
02-16-2016, 09:28 PM
that probably depends on whether or not Ramon Foster and/or Kelvin Beachum re-sign...

The suspense is killing me! Back to the draft sim. :chuckle:

BigNastyDefense
02-17-2016, 11:38 AM
I'm assuming that you mean in R1, because those guys were all gone by the time that Pittsburgh drafted in R2.

I was fine with them taking an OLB, because the pass rush definitely needed an upgrade, as well. That said, personally, I was hoping for CB (Peters) then OLB (Hunter). As it was, the Steelers went OLB (Dupree) then CB (Golson)... and, Golson should be an upgrade over Blake.

In Colbert's defense, he actively tried to trade up for Landon Collins. The NYGiants decided that if the Steelers wanted Collins so badly, they might as well draft the kid for themselves.


Exactly. All those players listen before weren't with picking where the Steelers picked in the first round. They also felt that they weren't worth whatever ammo was being asked for to trade up for in the second round.

It's not like they didn't select a DB at all in that draft, they took two.

Can't do anything if the CB you wanted on round one is gone before you pick. If Peters was there when their pick was up, I think they would have taken him instead of Dupree.

polamalubeast
02-19-2016, 04:27 PM
Zierlein 2016 Mock Draft 2.0: Steelers Select Arkansas TE Hunter Henry 25th Overall

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/02/zierlein-2016-mock-draft-2-0-steelers-select-arkansas-te-hunter-henry-25th-overall/

SteelerFanInStl
02-19-2016, 04:45 PM
Despite Heath's retirement, we don't need to draft a TE in the first round. Our offense is plenty good enough without Heath to still win the SB.

It would be nice to see us sign someone like Dwayne Allen though.

GBMelBlount
02-19-2016, 08:11 PM
Despite Heath's retirement, we don't need to draft a TE in the first round. Our offense is plenty good enough without Heath to still win the SB.

It would be nice to see us sign someone like Dwayne Allen though.

What if AB gets his leg snapped in game 1 and is out for the season.

Ben is what is getting us to the super bowl.

Load'em up.

Polamalu Princess
02-19-2016, 08:24 PM
Okay - here I go - I would love for us to pick up Hackenberg for a QB back up. I know that he has a lot to learn and a lot to to prove, but he could be great.