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View Full Version : Steelers Need to Find a Reliable Kick/Punt Returner



katmandu
01-18-2016, 10:03 AM
Love Wheaton, but he's clearly not the answer based on yesterday's performance.

Watching AB back there receiving gives me PANIC ATTACKS ! It's like watching someone getting ready to take your prized Maserati straight into a Demolition Derby !

Jacoby Jones was "supposed" to be the answer but couldn't catch a ball if his life depended on it.

I would rather see someone with 1/2 AB's return skills that can CATCH the damn ball !

tube517
01-18-2016, 10:35 AM
Todman is capable of KR's.

Rotorhead
01-18-2016, 10:53 AM
I agree about this, we certainly need to find someone who can replace AB, hell, just someone who can field punts would be nice.

Mojouw
01-18-2016, 11:07 AM
Seriously. What is it with this franchise and return guys? The last decent one (non-AB category) they had was, what? Stefan Logan? How hard can it be to root through the mass of rookies every year that flow in to the league and find one guy to stick on the roster to return kicks?

Based on the Steelers, damned near impossible I guess.

fansince'76
01-18-2016, 11:22 AM
Seriously. What is it with this franchise and return guys? The last decent one (non-AB category) they had was, what? Stefan Logan? How hard can it be to root through the mass of rookies every year that flow in to the league and find one guy to stick on the roster to return kicks?

Based on the Steelers, damned near impossible I guess.

IMO, the ST coaching needs to be upgraded like the OL coaching was 2 years ago, for starters.

Did Wheaton even practice fielding punts this week, when it was evident we wouldn't have Brown? Didn't look like it. He looked completely lost out there. That's one thing from yesterday that I will pin on the coaching. I'm not going to blame Wheaton for that.

tube517
01-18-2016, 11:22 AM
After Logan

2010 Sanders/AB (KR) and AB/ARE (PRs)

2011 AB/Sanders (KR and PRs)

2012 Rainey (KR)/ AB (PR)

2013 Felix Jones/Sanders (KR)/AB (PR)

2014 Super runt/Suckerpunch/Wheaton (KR)/AB (PR)

2015 Super runt/Jacoby Raven/Wheaton(KR)/ AB (PR)

86WARD
01-18-2016, 11:28 AM
Wheaton can return kicks. Punts he can not. Todman and Wheaton should have been back there from whenever it was first possible.

steelreserve
01-18-2016, 11:47 AM
AB is our best punt returner by far, and should therefore be the one returning punts.

I've been over this many, many times: The injury rate (per play) for the return man himself is about half the injury rate (per play) of wide receivers. They have done studies on this. It's the other special-teamers doing the blocking and tackling that get hurt a lot. If anything, you should be having a heart attack when Brown is playing receiver. Every time he fields a punt is a chance for a big play, and it's actually SAFER than his normal position. I'll gladly take that.

We do need to find a better backup plan for when AB isn't in the game, though. Wheaton nearly cost us the ball twice inside our own 10-yard line. That's flat-out not going to work. I heard Boykin is a former punt returner, but if he's on the roster next year, it'll be a minor miracle.

ALLD
01-18-2016, 03:43 PM
If they draft another 5'6" jitterbug I am going to scream. The guy on the Broncos must have dropped 5 passes yesterday.

Count Steeler
01-18-2016, 04:06 PM
Jordan Todman.

Dodt
01-18-2016, 05:30 PM
How bout jesse james?

steelerdude15
01-18-2016, 05:33 PM
How bout jesse james?

Too slow.

tube517
01-18-2016, 06:52 PM
Lol

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

86WARD
01-18-2016, 07:35 PM
Boykin should be returning kicks. Boykin also had experience in college returning punts. However, Tomlin has something against letting defensive players return kicks and punts. It's a HUGE flaw in Tomlin's "game". He goes with Wheaton, because he's on offense...yet he returned less than 5 punts in his career...college or pro. He's really not a kick returner either.

TOdman and Boykin should've been back there returning kicks from the start.

katmandu
01-18-2016, 07:50 PM
IMO, the ST coaching needs to be upgraded like the OL coaching was 2 years ago, for starters.

Did Wheaton even practice fielding punts this week, when it was evident we wouldn't have Brown? Didn't look like it. He looked completely lost out there. That's one thing from yesterday that I will pin on the coaching. I'm not going to blame Wheaton for that.There was the kick where he failed to call for a fair catch and a Bronco player "almost" downed it at the 1 yard line. Luckily, the ball went into the endzone for a touchback. Wheaton just stood there clueless.

- - - Updated - - -


The injury rate (per play) for the return man himself is about half the injury rate (per play) of wide receivers. They have done studies on this. It's the other special-teamers doing the blocking and tackling that get hurt a lot. If anything, you should be having a heart attack when Brown is playing receiver. Every time he fields a punt is a chance for a big play, and it's actually SAFER than his normal position. I'll gladly take that.That's good to know. Thanks.

86WARD
01-18-2016, 07:50 PM
Danny Smith blows...how long must we go with the same terrible return game? Coverage improved over time, but the return game has been pretty terrible.

tube517
01-19-2016, 10:17 AM
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/01/steelers-finish-season-ranked-6th-in-special-teams/


I'm still not a fan of Danny Smith.

I'd like to see how many penalties were assessed after the kickoffs making Ben start behind the 20 or even closer to the goal line?

Average starting field position? According to this chart #26 in Avg Starting Line of Scrimmage after a Kickoff. Avg starting LOS = 20.93 yd line.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff

86WARD
01-19-2016, 12:18 PM
Without looking, I'm guessing Korza wrote that on SteelersDepot? He's got a hard on for Smith.

tube517
01-19-2016, 12:51 PM
Without looking, I'm guessing Korza wrote that on SteelersDepot? He's got a hard on for Smith.

You are correct, sir.

86WARD
01-19-2016, 08:46 PM
He'll defend Smith to the bitter end...lol.

salamander
01-19-2016, 09:05 PM
He'll defend Smith to the bitter end...lol.

He finally stopped defending Goodell so I guess he needed someone else. :chuckle:

(Sorry, Alex - I'm only busting ya. It's all in good fun. :drink: )

teegre
01-19-2016, 09:32 PM
AB is our best punt returner by far, and should therefore be the one returning punts.

I've been over this many, many times: The injury rate (per play) for the return man himself is about half the injury rate (per play) of wide receivers. They have done studies on this. It's the other special-teamers doing the blocking and tackling that get hurt a lot. If anything, you should be having a heart attack when Brown is playing receiver. Every time he fields a punt is a chance for a big play, and it's actually SAFER than his normal position. I'll gladly take that.

This is 100% true.

The last two paragraphs highlight this:
http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/the-unstoppable-steelers-offense-and-the-juggernaut-antonio-brown/

zulater
01-21-2016, 07:10 PM
It's amazing that once AB went down we didn't have one solid option as a punt returner. Perhaps just as amazing is that it took AB missing a playoff game to get to the point that it came up, in other words how can you get through a 16 game season plus a playoff game and not have a second option as a punt returner? What if AB had twisted his ankle slightly or had to miss a series over an equipment problem? The way Wheaton looked back there you would have been better to just run 11 guys at the punter.

I think Tomlin did a good job this year. But when he says he will keep the coaching staff intact I'm not sure how or why Danny Smith's job is secure?

86WARD
01-21-2016, 07:23 PM
Boykin could have done it...or at least was more experienced than anyone on the roster...

Craic
01-21-2016, 11:04 PM
It's amazing that once AB went down we didn't have one solid option as a punt returner. Perhaps just as amazing is that it took AB missing a playoff game to get to the point that it came up, in other words how can you get through a 16 game season plus a playoff game and not have a second option as a punt returner? What if AB had twisted his ankle slightly or had to miss a series over an equipment problem? The way Wheaton looked back there you would have been better to just run 11 guys at the punter.

I think Tomlin did a good job this year. But when he says he will keep the coaching staff intact I'm not sure how or why Danny Smith's job is secure?

We didn't. My guess is we had a 2nd option in Dri Archer and then Jacoby Jones. (Actually, Jacoby was the first option until he muffed a few punts). By the time that was over, we had enough injuries we had to fill the roster with other players.

zulater
01-22-2016, 07:13 AM
We didn't. My guess is we had a 2nd option in Dri Archer and then Jacoby Jones. (Actually, Jacoby was the first option until he muffed a few punts). By the time that was over, we had enough injuries we had to fill the roster with other players.

If they had any confidence in Dri as a punt returner they would have tried to ease him into it at least in certain situations over the course of last season and early this season. Remember when they cut Steph Logan, they cited his inability to contribute as a position player on either side of the ball, which made him a luxury they couldn't afford to use up a valuable roster spot on. So fast forward to Dri. Here's a guy who proved to have no value on offense, and he's on our roster at a time when kickoffs have been devalued significantly compared to Logan's time due to moving the ball up 5 yards on kickoffs. If he had any ability to return punts he would have been doing it. I think the degree in difficulty in returning punts is much harder and more cerebral than returning kickoffs. There's so many more variable's involved. So essentially I think if Archer had shown any real ability as a punt returner he probably would have been doing it, and quite likely never would have been cut. I think it was pretty evident they tried everything they could to salvage Archer due to the draft pick they spent on him. I'm guessing he would have looked pretty much the same as Wheaton back there had he remained on the roster.

86WARD
01-22-2016, 07:18 AM
Tomlin has his issues with using defensive players to return kicks...

Boykin, once again, was the answer and Tomlin refused to use him.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160122/7a4abe0a5df9f311627475f6a0d04cb0.jpg

That is 3 positions that Tomlin refused to use Boykin's talents.

Mojouw
01-22-2016, 02:00 PM
Looks like the Steelers are going all in early in the offseason to find a returner or returners. Both Eli Rodgers and Norwood have demonstrated return skills.

86WARD
01-22-2016, 03:19 PM
Looks like the Steelers are going all in early in the offseason to find a returner or returners. Both Eli Rodgers and Norwood have demonstrated return skills.

Did they re-sign Rogers?

Mojouw
01-22-2016, 03:32 PM
Did they re-sign Rogers?

Not sure. Steelers Depot lists him as a WR in the offseason preview - http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/01/steelers-2016-draft-needs-offense-overview/

That is all I was basing it on. I could be off.

86WARD
01-22-2016, 06:35 PM
I thought they released him. Maybe they signed him back.

tube517
02-02-2016, 02:29 PM
Looks like the Steelers are going all in early in the offseason to find a returner or returners. Both Eli Rodgers and Norwood have demonstrated return skills.

http://www.steelers.com/news/transactions/article-1/Steelers-sign-Levi-Norwood/f18195c6-1580-4d4b-98a0-79d43550936a




At Baylor, Norwood earned All-Big 12 honorable mention honors as a return specialist in back-to-back seasons (2013-14)

Is Norwood 4'11" and runs a 3.8 40? :chuckle:

ALLD
02-03-2016, 03:25 PM
Just as long as Norwood returns instead of kicks FGs he will be fine.

Devilsdancefloor
02-03-2016, 06:59 PM
Boykin should be returning kicks. Boykin also had experience in college returning punts. However, Tomlin has something against letting defensive players return kicks and punts. It's a HUGE flaw in Tomlin's "game". He goes with Wheaton, because he's on offense...yet he returned less than 5 punts in his career...college or pro. He's really not a kick returner either.

TOdman and Boykin should've been back there returning kicks from the start.

i said this since he was signed

hawaiiansteeler
05-01-2016, 02:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApfkWAtH9qs

Psycho Ward 86
05-01-2016, 03:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApfkWAtH9qs

i dont care how good of a returner he is if thats all he'll end up doing for us. I want Canaan Severin to make it over him for the moment and its not even close

hawaiiansteeler
05-02-2016, 10:09 PM
Alex Kozora ‏@Alex_Kozora

Demarcus Ayers stat line vs Tulane: 8 punt returns, 175 yards (21.9 avg) 1 TD. Had another TD called back. 8/108/1 as a receiver. Dominance.

https://twitter.com/Alex_Kozora?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp %7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Mojouw
05-02-2016, 10:48 PM
What about Rogers and Norwood? Figure 1 WR spot is open due to Bryant's situation. But do they carry a returner as well?

I figure they carry 10 lbers. 8 in the secondary. You all get the idea. Where do they go light? Maybe dump Landry Jones? Only carry 3 RBS. those both would be out of character.

This, to me, will be the most interesting part of the run up to the regular season. If most players perform up to their expectations, some really tough cuts will be made in the name of roster composition. I see a situation where to the fan it looks like they don't break camp with the most talented 53, but the Steelers will view it as the most effective 53.


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BlackAndGold
05-03-2016, 07:59 PM
727655246797754368

Cyphon25
05-04-2016, 05:04 AM
What about Rogers and Norwood? Figure 1 WR spot is open due to Bryant's situation. But do they carry a returner as well?

I figure they carry 10 lbers. 8 in the secondary. You all get the idea. Where do they go light? Maybe dump Landry Jones? Only carry 3 RBS. those both would be out of character.

This, to me, will be the most interesting part of the run up to the regular season. If most players perform up to their expectations, some really tough cuts will be made in the name of roster composition. I see a situation where to the fan it looks like they don't break camp with the most talented 53, but the Steelers will view it as the most effective 53.

I hope they don't go light anywhere just to carry a specialist. In my opinion the player should have at least a little value somewhere else. So unless the Steelers think he has potential as a 5th WR he shouldn't have even been drafted.

I don't know if the blame should fall on Danny Smith or Mike Tomlin but they had a potentially good return man in Todman on the roster who also looked pretty damn good as an RB and they never gave him a chance. They let Archer and Jones shit the bed while keeping Todman benched and then at RB let Fitzgerald run before Todman did. I can just never figure these things out when they let good players rot.

Archer was a terrible pick and Ayers may end up being one as well but at least he was 7th round.

hawaiiansteeler
05-04-2016, 01:23 PM
I hope they don't go light anywhere just to carry a specialist. In my opinion the player should have at least a little value somewhere else. So unless the Steelers think he has potential as a 5th WR he shouldn't have even been drafted.

I don't know if the blame should fall on Danny Smith or Mike Tomlin but they had a potentially good return man in Todman on the roster who also looked pretty damn good as an RB and they never gave him a chance. They let Archer and Jones shit the bed while keeping Todman benched and then at RB let Fitzgerald run before Todman did. I can just never figure these things out when they let good players rot.

Archer was a terrible pick and Ayers may end up being one as well but at least he was 7th round.

from what I've read the Steelers never felt comfortable with Todman at RB because he wasn't very good at picking up blitzes.

as for Ayers, he did have 97 receptions for 1221 yards and 6 TDs last season so he definitely has potential as a slot WR...

katmandu
05-04-2016, 01:52 PM
I hope they don't go light anywhere just to carry a specialist. In my opinion the player should have at least a little value somewhere else.

So unless the Steelers think he has potential as a 5th WR he shouldn't have even been drafted.
I just listened to Tomlin/Colbert's post-draft interview.

Colbert stated (towards the end) that Ayers was the BEST return man in the draft and they intend on using him there. He also said Ayers would be a good slot receiver in our system.


http://www.steelers.com/videos/videos/Colbert_and_Tomlin_on_2016_Draft/153f443f-3817-41d3-99d5-437155352dc0