I don't know the key to winning, but we sure know the key to losing.

[Edman]

I'm watching the KC-Pats game, and the Chiefs basically went into a hole and never came out until they were way behind.

It isn't the Broncos D that worries me tomorrow. The X-factor is wether or not Todd Haley will have a decent gameplan drawn up.

If the Steelers go turtle because "protect Ben's Arm", they will lose.

[polamalubeast]

Ben must Throw Some deep pass in this game if he is able to do it.

[SteelMayhem72]

The pats game just showed a lot of lopsided calls favoring the pats...shocker huh? Just showed the NFL is wanting a brady manning championship game no doubt in my mind. I hope we can overcome the broncos and officials to go to New England and take down Marsha and company. Gotta believe my fellow steeler fans!!

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I also think Ben WILL be able to throw down field farther than we think. They will have his shoulder shot full of meds he will not feel anything.

[Craic]

The problem with everyone screaming "Turtle offense" is it assumes the offensive plan hasn't taken into account the ability and proclivity of a QB or defense, not to mention health. I get we want the offense to be more aggressive. But, if that means hanging Ben out to get seriously injured, then no way.

I do think it ironic that asking for the aggressive offense is basically calling for a Bruce Arians offense that never turtled, not even in 40 mile an hour winds in Dec. in Cleveland.

[Edman]

The problem with everyone screaming "Turtle offense" is it assumes the offensive plan hasn't taken into account the ability and proclivity of a QB or defense, not to mention health. I get we want the offense to be more aggressive. But, if that means hanging Ben out to get seriously injured, then no way.

I do think it ironic that asking for the aggressive offense is basically calling for a Bruce Arians offense that never turtled, not even in 40 mile an hour winds in Dec. in Cleveland.

Not even remotely comparable.

The problem with the Airhead Offense is that it was great between the 20's, but it was bad everywhere else. It has nothing to do with aggressiveness.

A Captain Checkdown Offense is no better.

[Psycho Ward 86]

The problem with everyone screaming "Turtle offense" is it assumes the offensive plan hasn't taken into account the ability and proclivity of a QB or defense, not to mention health. I get we want the offense to be more aggressive. But, if that means hanging Ben out to get seriously injured, then no way.

I do think it ironic that asking for the aggressive offense is basically calling for a Bruce Arians offense that never turtled, not even in 40 mile an hour winds in Dec. in Cleveland.

so many people need to read this line

[polamalubeast]

so many people need to read this line

It was just one game on a thursday night.....

[Psycho Ward 86]

Not even remotely comparable.

The problem with the Airhead Offense is that it was great between the 20's, but it was bad everywhere else. It has nothing to do with aggressiveness.

A Captain Checkdown Offense is no better.

dont understand this board's obsession with polarity. Easing up an aggressive offense doesnt have to mean a checkdown offense at all. It literally happened 1 year in Ben's entire career and everyone seems to lose their mind about it. And that was only because our O-line was shitty to start with, and that shitty O-line was more injured than any unit in the NFL. So duh, probably not the best idea to Big Ben like David Carr.

How about...adapting to what you have and who you're against?

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It was just one game on a thursday night.....

severe underuse of RB's and tight ends (regardless of talent) as receiving weapons? horrible short yardage offense (save for about 2 seasons when Redman was healthy)? shitty in the red zone? vertical offense with an awful O-line against jailbreak blitzes?

I seem to remember these being thematic reocurrences during Arians' entire tenure here

[polamalubeast]

The problem under Arians was the Offensive line....Not Bruce Arians.....Just look at his success in Arizona with Carson Palmer.

[Psycho Ward 86]

The problem under Arians was the Offensive line....Not Bruce Arians.....Just look at his success in Arizona with Carson Palmer.

an offensive coordinator should be expected to adjust to the quality of his offensive line. What about his success in Arizona? Arians is free to do as he pleases since the cardinals currently have a stacked O-line and a billion weapons...no need to back down from throwing way past the sticks anymore for him

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Ben must Throw Some deep pass in this game if he is able to do it.

What constitutes a deep pass? Because throwing a couple 15-20 downfield once in a while did just fine last time. And Ben still got picked off twice, both were dumb interceptions. Remember that our average ball distance traveled on throws of 20+ yards was 37 yards, easily leading the league. How many of those are people expecting?

Do people also realize the Broncos are getting Demarcus Ware, TJ Ward, and another effective backup safety that they didnt have last time?

[polamalubeast]

What constitutes a deep pass? Because throwing a couple 15-20 downfield once in a while did just fine last time. And Ben still got picked off twice, both were dumb interceptions. Remember that our average ball distance traveled on throws of 20+ yards was 37 yards, easily leading the league. How many of those are people expecting?

Do people also realize the Broncos are getting Demarcus Ware, TJ Ward, and another effective backup safety that they didnt have last time?

I mean, if the Broncos do not respect the deep pass (15 yards or more),because of the arm of Ben, Roethlisberger must attempts a few if he is able to do it.

[ALLD]

Carson Palmer > Alex Smith.

[Craic]

Not even remotely comparable.

The problem with the Airhead Offense is that it was great between the 20's, but it was bad everywhere else. It has nothing to do with aggressiveness.

A Captain Checkdown Offense is no better.

Nope, comparable in every way. One of the biggest complaints heard about Arians was how he always sent guys on long routes, always had Ben looking upfield rather than short throws, always trying to take the top off the defense. That is pretty much exactly what I see people clamoring for, even though we had QBs who weren't able to play that kind of offense, and now may have a QB that physically is unable to throw the ball that far for a whole game.

What's more, the Monday Morning Quarterbacking fails to take into account that in virtually every one of those "turtle" games while Ben was out, we were in the game and conceivably could win it in the fourth quarter. And, mind you, that was without our starting QB, not to mention a few other starters on offense. In fact, Tomlin and Haley put the team in a position to win the game in the fourth quarter almost every game this year, let alone without Ben. Personally, I'll trust them to figure out a gameplan, even if it includes a "turtle" offense.

[zoneblitzerII]

I'd like to nominate this as the best titled thread of all time.

As to keys to winning...I know one, situational football. Eg. Chiefs got a great kick return into Pats territory. Instead of bearing down, moving the ball and getting points, they preceded to do jack shit and went backwards. I knew then and there that the game was over. You MUST take advantage of those situations. It is critical to winning football.

[steelreserve]

The Haley Turtle means running a dumbed-down offense that plays to mediocrity rather than our strengths. It's that simple.

Got the best running quarterback in the history of the game? Think we should maybe dial up some plays that take advantage of his mobility? Nah, fuck it - throw a bunch of quick wide receiver screens and outs. Wait, they figured that out after the first two, and now they lock in on Brown and gang-tackle him at the line of scrimmage? Just keep doing it more!

Got a backup QB who just showed himself effective throwing 10- and 15-yard passes over the middle against one of the league's best defenses? Think maybe we should try that again? Nah, fuck it - run, run, pass. Is he less accurate on quick throws than Ben? Fuck it - let's have him throw a bunch of quick passes short of the first down, and then the receiver drops the ball or gets tackled immediately because the throw was behind him.

THAT'S why people complain about it. Not because they're all idiots who don't know what they're talking about and the coaches can do no wrong. Haley's done well under ordinary circumstances, but throw him a curveball and half the time his plan is stupid as hell.

[fansince'76]

Haley's done well under ordinary circumstances, but throw him a curveball and half the time his plan is stupid as hell.

And my argument against Haley is that under ordinary circumstances, we have so much firepower on offense that it could make ANYBODY look competent. IMO, he doesn't really do anything special to maximize this offense's potential even when it's at full strength - he still calls plays that half the time have me screaming "WTF ARE YOU DOING?" at the TV. That's why I think we could still do a lot better in the OC department. After Arians moved on, this offense didn't improve one whit until about midway through Haley's 3rd season on the job after Munchak joined the staff and the stars aligned and Bell and Bryant broke out. Proof's in the pudding.

[steelerkitty]

\h - he still calls plays that half the time have me screaming "WTF ARE YOU DOING?" at the TV. \.



In all honesty sir...me too. However I also think that Tomlin overall is a bigger concern then even Haley is....just my opinion.

[Hawkman]

Amazing that this can turn into a Haley and Tomlin bashing thread, when we've made it to the second round of the playoffs with a very suspect defense and an offense that has been extremely "personnel" challenged throughout the season, against some of the best defenses in the NFL. Not sure what more people want. There is talk about what a tremendously talented offense we have, but they have rarely all been on the field at the same time, with injuries and suspensions. I for one am really proud of this team AND the coaching staff.

[steelerkitty]

Amazing that this can turn into a Haley and Tomlin bashing thread, when we've made it to the second round of the playoffs with a very suspect defense and an offense that has been extremely "personnel" challenged throughout the season, against some of the best defenses in the NFL. Not sure what more people want. There is talk about what a tremendously talented offense we have, but they have rarely all been on the field at the same time, with injuries and suspensions. I for one am really proud of this team AND the coaching staff.





My concerns with Tomlin are not as much on the coaching end, but more on his wanting to be one of the Boys, and not clamping down on behavior that has grown in Ignorance over his tenure here. Yes, what Cincy has done has been bad/criminal. But Tomlin's crew has been almost as bad. Even Tomlin himself has been involved with this craziness. Stuff that Knoll and Cowher would never have allowed to happen. All these constant celebration penalties, and basic acting like a fool. Then of course there has been Tomlin's constant inability to get his team ready for teams that are bad teams.


But I am sorry sir, I don't want to make this thread into a bashing anyone. As for any sort of Keys to winning or losing ?....well to me it is simple. Protect your QB with quick-hitters, and motion plays. Keep Denver's offense on as long of a a field as you can, and get up at the LOS and play their WR and RB's tight...cause you know Manning is gonna want to throw short quick patterns himself. Not only to move the ball, but to avoid pressure.



Those are the keys to me.

[Count Steeler]

The whole key with this year's team is the defense, bend and don't break philosophy. If they are able to keep the Broncos to field goals and get turnovers we have a very good chance. If they allow TDs and do not get turnovers, we lose. This defense is not strong until it gets to its own red zone.

[ALLD]

Don't fumble the ball in the 4th quarter.