Roethlisberger's final act Saturday night among his greatest

[stillers4me]

It didn’t top the final drive in Super Bowl XLIII. For Ben Roethlisberger, nothing probably will surpass the eight-play, 78-yard drive and his 6-yard touchdown pass to Santonio Holmes to beat the Arizona Cardinals in the final minute. But what Roethlisberger did Saturday night in Cincinnati might be the most remarkable achievement in a career that has him bound for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. In an act of desperation, Mike Tomlin put Roethlisberger back in an AFC wild-card game against the Bengals in the final two minutes with the Steelers trailing, 16-15. Tomlin believed Roethlisberger, playing with one arm because of a right shoulder injury from a sack on the final play of the third quarter, was a better option than ineffective backup Landry Jones. Roethlisberger justified that faith by leading the Steelers to an 18-16 win with a nine-play, 74-yard drive for the deciding field goal.


“He’s our guy. I wouldn’t trade him for anyone else,” Tomlin said.


Roethlisberger described his pain as intense and said he couldn’t throw the ball more than 5 or 10 yards, yet he somehow managed to complete 5 of 7 passes for 40 yards. He converted a third-and-2 with a 7-yard pass to Fitzgerald Toussaint and a fourth-and-3 with a 12-yard pass to Antonio Brown.


“When he makes miracles happen, I’m not surprised,” teammate Ryan Shazier said.


“Ben is an amazing quarterback. He’s an amazing leader. We just have to do what we can to follow him.”............

read more @ http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron-cook/2016/01/11/Ron-Cook-Steelers-Ben-Roethlisberger-s-final-act-Saturday-night-among-his-greatest/stories/201601110038

[ALLD]

I saw Bradshaw get taken off the field on a stretcher in the first half only to come back to win it in the 4th quarter. Ben is only the second QB I ever saw do it and win.

[86WARD]

I still don't think people will think it was a clutch performance because of the penalties at the end, but when you watch the tape, it's pretty clutch...

[Pittsburgher]

I saw Bradshaw get taken off the field on a stretcher in the first half only to come back to win it in the 4th quarter. Ben is only the second QB I ever saw do it and win.
Sunday, December 3rd, 2000. I went to the Steelers vs Raiders game that day with my dad. It was the last time either of us would be in Three Rivers Stadium before her implosion in a couple of months.

Don't cringe now, but the QB was Kordell Stewart. He may not have been 'carted' off the field, but he went out injured in the first half of the game and we were told he was out for the game. In came Kent Graham. His nickname was the 'Grimm Reaper' for some of us, and in this game it applied. I saw Kordell come back in after Graham got us behind and win it for us, even with the Raiders wanting 5 downs at the end of game. For the last game I attended at TRS, this was a classic! My dad and I were slow to leave the stands, knowing it was our last time, and reminisced over all the games of the Pirates we had seen there as well. We lingered so long they got after us to leave. TRS is gone, and now so is my dad. Sigh.

Here are the details of the game if you're interested: http://old.post-gazette.com/steelers/20001204steelers1.asp

[lipps83]

He is the reason (partly) they fell behind and the reason (partly) they won.

I give him a pass for the game, but would not put it anywhere near the top of any of his performances. He seemed a bit off even before the injury.

[zulater]

He is the reason (partly) they fell behind and the reason (partly) they won.

I give him a pass for the game, but would not put it anywhere near the top of any of his performances. He seemed a bit off even before the injury.

They were up 15-0 when he went off the field. How is he the reason "they fell behind"? :doh:

Oh because he ran the play the OC called on 3rd and 18, and Marcus Gilbert for only the second time all year got beat for a sack? Yeah big dummy, all on him! :sarcasm:

[lipps83]

You must be one of those "Ben is blameless" guys.

Haley called the play, sure. Ben had plenty of time to change it before snapping it. After the snap, he had many other options than what he did. When Burfict comes free he runs almost backwards to his own endzone. It wasn't smart play at all, but let's blame Haley first and then Gilbert. Let's thrown Brown, Bryant, Miller and everyone else under the bus too because none of them got open in time. We can also blame the Bengals fans for being so loud. The rain. Burfict. Let's throw Tomlin in there too.

Let's get really crazy now, we can blame the Jets also for losing to the Bills and putting Ben in that position. If they had never lost Ben would have never been in the unfortunate position everyone else put him in except for Ben Roethlisberger.

Okay.

[SteelMember]

I knew it going in, nothing against Landry Jones, but there was no way we get the FG chance without Ben on the Field. Ben is one tough MFer!

[fansince'76]

I still don't think people will think it was a clutch performance because of the penalties at the end...

Not to mention the QB involved - if it had been Brady/Rodgers/Manning, we'd NEVER hear the end of it...

[SteelMember]

You must be one of those "Ben is blameless" guys.

Haley called the play, sure. Ben had plenty of time to change it before snapping it. After the snap, he had many other options than what he did. When Burfict comes free he runs almost backwards to his own endzone. It wasn't smart play at all, but let's blame Haley first and then Gilbert. Let's thrown Brown, Bryant, Miller and everyone else under the bus too because none of them got open in time. We can also blame the Bengals fans for being so loud. The rain. Burfict. Let's throw Tomlin in there too.

Let's get really crazy now, we can blame the Jets also for losing to the Bills and putting Ben in that position. If they had never lost Ben would have never been in the unfortunate position everyone else put him in except for Ben Roethlisberger.

Okay.

He should have throw it away, but HELLO, we've been living and dying by that guy "holding the ball too long" his entire career... did Ben give up the 3 and longs all day? How 'bout that 30+ yarder to AJ Greene for the score? What was Mitchell covering... the upright? lol

[zulater]

You must be one of those "Ben is blameless" guys.

Haley called the play, sure. Ben had plenty of time to change it before snapping it. After the snap, he had many other options than what he did. When Burfict comes free he runs almost backwards to his own endzone. It wasn't smart play at all, but let's blame Haley first and then Gilbert. Let's thrown Brown, Bryant, Miller and everyone else under the bus too because none of them got open in time. We can also blame the Bengals fans for being so loud. The rain. Burfict. Let's throw Tomlin in there too.

Let's get really crazy now, we can blame the Jets also for losing to the Bills and putting Ben in that position. If they had never lost Ben would have never been in the unfortunate position everyone else put him in except for Ben Roethlisberger.

Okay.

No, I'm just not a moron. I recognize a good qb when I see one, and am happy to have him on my team. No he's not flawless. But on that play he did nothing wrong. I saw your blather on the game day thread. You're the guy who will blame Ben every time the Steelers fall short.

[Hawkman]

He is the reason (partly) they fell behind and the reason (partly) they won.

I give him a pass for the game, but would not put it anywhere near the top of any of his performances. He seemed a bit off even before the injury.ass hat

[lipps83]

He should have throw it away, but HELLO, we've been living and dying by that guy "holding the ball too long" his entire career... did Ben give up the 3 and longs all day? How 'bout that 30+ yarder to AJ Greene for the score? What was Mitchell covering... the upright? lol

Okay, I was referring to one play in particular but you want to bring up the game. Do you understand what words mean?

Tell me again how Big Ben forced that last fumble from Hill?

[Psycho Ward 86]

I still don't think people will think it was a clutch performance because of the penalties at the end, but when you watch the tape, it's pretty clutch...

yup, i see 0 attention paid to Ben actually driving us down the field. Seems like 99% of the buzz is literally on the 2 penalties. if anything, it looked like Ben was going to put us in reasonable field goal range anyways even without the penalties

[86WARD]

You must be one of those "Ben is blameless" guys.

Haley called the play, sure. Ben had plenty of time to change it before snapping it. After the snap, he had many other options than what he did. When Burfict comes free he runs almost backwards to his own endzone. It wasn't smart play at all, but let's blame Haley first and then Gilbert. Let's thrown Brown, Bryant, Miller and everyone else under the bus too because none of them got open in time. We can also blame the Bengals fans for being so loud. The rain. Burfict. Let's throw Tomlin in there too.

Let's get really crazy now, we can blame the Jets also for losing to the Bills and putting Ben in that position. If they had never lost Ben would have never been in the unfortunate position everyone else put him in except for Ben Roethlisberger.

Okay.

The coverage could have dictated that play, Ben may have gone audible into that play, again, Tomlin looking to put a team away when he has the chance. Gilbert's lack of block there is what did Ben in...and the Bengals coverage. Don't act like you know all the details sitting in front of a TV.

[zulater]

He should have throw it away, but HELLO, we've been living and dying by that guy "holding the ball too long" his entire career... did Ben give up the 3 and longs all day? How 'bout that 30+ yarder to AJ Greene for the score? What was Mitchell covering... the upright? lol

He really didn't hold the ball excessively long that play. His initial read wasn't open and he spun around to the right, which bought him additional time all season long being as our right tackle played at an extremely high level all year. Well on this particular play Gilbert got beat. It happens to the best of them. And give credit to Burfic. I hate the bastard but the guy's a player, and he was particularly fired up at that point of the game because of Shazier's fumble inducing borderline hit, and he made an excellent spin move off Gilbert's initial block. From snap to sack was right around the 3 second mark. The notion that Ben had all kinds of options or was holding the ball too long is just the nonsense spouted by the uniformed.

[86WARD]

yup, i see 0 attention paid to Ben actually driving us down the field. Seems like 99% of the buzz is literally on the 2 penalties. if anything, it looked like Ben was going to put us in reasonable field goal range anyways even without the penalties

There's no reason to think he couldn't have picked up another 15 yards with :22 left on the clock or whatever it was.

[lipps83]

No, I'm just not a moron. I recognize a good qb when I see one, and am happy to have him on my team. No he's not flawless. But on that play he did nothing wrong. I saw your blather on the game day thread. You're the guy who will blame Ben every time the Steelers fall short.

He is a good QB. Show me where I said he wasn't. He is a great QB. You mention he is not flawless, but refuse to engage in discussing these flaws, as most are, because he is a fan favorite. Players who are not a favorite are ripped with criticism on these boards.

Try to be an objectionable fan.

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ass hat

That is a message board dagger if I have ever seen one before. Very well thought out and engaging.

[SteelMember]

Okay, I was referring to one play in particular but you want to bring up the game. Do you understand what words mean?

Tell me again how Big Ben forced that last fumble from Hill?

Words mean things when they are assembled in coherent phrases or sentences. You brought up one play... I gave my take on it. Best we probably do in that down and distance is punt it away. The fact that he came back in was the "great" part, imho. No way Landry gets us there.

[SteelMember]

yup, i see 0 attention paid to Ben actually driving us down the field. Seems like 99% of the buzz is literally on the 2 penalties. if anything, it looked like Ben was going to put us in reasonable field goal range anyways even without the penalties

If he dosn't make the 4th down conversion... the penalties don't matter... 'cause they never happen.

[lipps83]

Words mean things when they are assembled in coherent phrases or sentences. You brought up one play... I gave my take on it. Best we probably do in that down and distance is punt it away. The fact that he came back in was the "great" part, imho. No way Landry gets us there.

Absolutely, there is no way that game finishes the way it does without Ben (or Burfict or Jones). Ben pulled that off for sure, but there is no way I can give him all or even most of the credit when he was also partly responsible for the hole in the first place.

Now, don't read into that and think I am saying Ben sucks, this or that. Not even close to what I have said in the past or am saying now.

Ben sees Burfict coming and proceeds to run right into him after looking over his back. That's my issue, you see him coming, go the other way. He doesn't, he looks right at him, looks back, and proceeds to run right into him. In 2nd part of this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJLzVx7Dgio

[zulater]

He is a good QB. Show me where I said he wasn't. He is a great QB. You mention he is not flawless, but refuse to engage in discussing these flaws, as most are, because he is a fan favorite. Players who are not a favorite are ripped with criticism on these boards.

Try to be an objectionable fan.

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That is a message board dagger if I have ever seen one before. Very well thought out and engaging.

I am being objective. You blamed Ben for getting sacked. You've indicated he had more time than he actually had. You've indicated he could have audible'd out of the play. Why should he have? The play call came from the sideline, he put his trust in his OC, and of course Ben is aggressive by nature. You act as f Ben misread a blitz. He didn't. It was just a 3 man rush, 8 in coverage. That's why no one was open early. So when the pocket starts to get compromised Ben rolls right. As he should have done. With a 3 man rush why would he give up on the play at that point? He didn't anticipate Burfic beating Gilbert so quickly. Nor should he have. As previously mentioned Gilbert only gave up one sack all year. So Ben is supposed to think he would get beat cleanly on this play?

Now we get back to the play call. Here's a little quiz for you. What's the percentage of 3rd and 15+ plays getting converted from inside your own 25?
What's the Bengals % of giving up 3rd and 15+ conversions from an opponent pinned inside their own 25? Answers, dismal and worse. That's why it was stupid of Haley to put Ben in that position. The game situation wasn't that you were desperate and trailing. A conservative play call more than likely avoids all the drama that follows.

Haley is a good OC. Perhaps even elite. But he had a major brain fart with that call. And it's seriously compromised our playoff chances as a result.

[SteelMember]

Absolutely, there is no way that game finishes the way it does without Ben (or Burfict or Jones). Ben pulled that off for sure, but there is no way I can give him all or even most of the credit when he was also partly responsible for the hole in the first place.

Now, don't read into that and think I am saying Ben sucks, this or that. Not even close to what I have said in the past or am saying now.

Ben sees Burfict coming and proceeds to run right into him after looking over his back. That's my issue, you see him coming, go the other way. He doesn't, he looks right at him, looks back, and proceeds to run right into him. In 2nd part of this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJLzVx7Dgio

I think that's because he was thinking Gilbert already gave up the inside move. He flushes out, and Burfict spins back outside. Basically, Gilbert got beat twice on the play.

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He really didn't hold the ball excessively long that play. His initial read wasn't open and he spun around to the right, which bought him additional time all season long being as our right tackle played at an extremely high level all year. Well on this particular play Gilbert got beat. It happens to the best of them. And give credit to Burfic. I hate the bastard but the guy's a player, and he was particularly fired up at that point of the game because of Shazier's fumble inducing borderline hit, and he made an excellent spin move off Gilbert's initial block. From snap to sack was right around the 3 second mark. The notion that Ben had all kinds of options or was holding the ball too long is just the nonsense spouted by the uniformed.

He could have throw it away...

[zulater]

I think that's because he was thinking Gilbert already gave up the inside move. He flushes out, and Burfict spins back outside. Basically, Gilbert got beat twice on the play.

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He could have throw it away...

Maybe. And he also could have fumbled in the process. In real time from the moment he indentifies Burfic as a threat until he's taken down is less than 1.5 seconds. All under duress. And remember the ball and field are wet ( oh damn that's right, it was only wet on the Bengals half of the field! :doh: lol )

Seriously, it was a bad playcall. Followed by a poor block by Gilbert. Or maybe just a great play by Burfic? Either way, Ben was in between a rock and a hard place. Could he have managed the situation better? Sure. But it could have been worse. And the way it broke down I think Ben should be held minimally responsible.

And if we simply hand off. Get your anticipated 3-8 yards it's a totally different game from that point on and we most likely never come close to losing the lead.

[lipps83]

I am being objective. You blamed Ben for getting sacked. You've indicated he had more time than he actually had. You've indicated he could have audible'd out of the play. Why should he have? The play call came from the sideline, he put his trust in his OC, and of course Ben is aggressive by nature. You act as f Ben misread a blitz. He didn't. It was just a 3 man rush, 8 in coverage. That's why no one was open early. So when the pocket starts to get compromised Ben rolls right. As he should have done. With a 3 man rush why would he give up on the play at that point? He didn't anticipate Burfic beating Gilbert so quickly. Nor should he have. As previously mentioned Gilbert only gave up one sack all year. So Ben is supposed to think he would get beat cleanly on this play?

Now we get back to the play call. Here's a little quiz for you. What's the percentage of 3rd and 15+ plays getting converted from inside your own 25?
What's the Bengals % of giving up 3rd and 15+ conversions from an opponent pinned inside their own 25? Answers, dismal and worse. That's why it was stupid of Haley to put Ben in that position. The game situation wasn't that you were desperate and trailing. A conservative play call more than likely avoids all the drama that follows.

Haley is a good OC. Perhaps even elite. But he had a major brain fart with that call. And it's seriously compromised our playoff chances as a result.

It was a 3rd and 18 in the rain. Chances of making that are next to nil so the expectation should be to punt especially being up 15-0. Ben, being a long time vet now, should know this. A draw play would have worked perfectly and is what I expected them to run, especially since the Bengals ran one earlier in the game on a 3rd and long and picked up I think 14 yards and almost a 1st down. They were up 15-0 with a little more than 1 minute left in the quarter, there is no reason to take any sort of 'big play' risk and the Bengals hadn't stopped the run all game.

The call is on Haley, but Ben had the chance to audible and didn't take it.

Anyway you look at it, and there are many ways to do so, it was a perfect shit storm that has completely changed the picture as far as how healthy this team is going to now be in its play off run.

[zulater]

It was a 3rd and 18 in the rain. Chances of making that are next to nil so the expectation should be to punt especially being up 15-0. Ben, being a long time vet now, should know this. A draw play would have worked perfectly and is what I expected them to run, especially since the Bengals ran one earlier in the game on a 3rd and long and picked up I think 14 yards and almost a 1st down. They were up 15-0 with a little more than 1 minute left in the quarter, there is no reason to take any sort of 'big play' risk and the Bengals hadn't stopped the run all game.

The call is on Haley, but Ben had the chance to audible and didn't take it.

Anyway you look at it, and there are many ways to do so, it was a perfect shit storm that has completely changed the picture as far as how healthy this team is going to now be in its play off run.

I'm with you up until you place it on Ben for not audibiling. Simple, call it right from up above to begin with! First off as far as an audible. Did the play call come in late? If so can you get out of the play call without risking the penalty? And you can't take the penalty there. LOS was the 17. Five yards from there is damaging from the perspective of your punt. Of course you could take the time out. But while a 15 point lead is nice the hay's not in the barn yet.

Anyway from Ben's perspective it comes down to this (imo) He probably thought he could hit an underneath route and if someone breaks a tackle maybe you get the first? So he's all in. That's who is. Anyway it's just a 3 man rush, so when the play start to break down I'm sure he wasn't too worried rolling right with Gilbert occupying Burfic. The way this season played out, the season Gilbert had why should he be worried? But as we know Burfic beat Gilbert and the rest as they say is history.
If Gilbert doesn't get beat Ben either throws the ball away or checks down to a very short pass.
Now getting back to the original play call. 3rd and 18 from the 17, run the draw and there's probably about a 95% chance your punting from your 20-ish to start the fourth quarter with a healthy qb. As opposed to punting from your own 5 with your qb going to the locker room on a cart looking unlikely to return.

As you say that play changed everything that happened thereafter.

Our difference is I say that's almost exclusively on Haley. The chances of something awful happening from your own 17 on 3rd and 18 when you decide to pass were just too great to risk when the game situation asked nothing of the kind.

[zulater]

If I were to make a blame pie for the end result of that particular 3rd and 18 play it would be 85% Haley, 12% Gilbert, 3% Ben.

[Mojouw]

As much as a dirtball as he is, Burfict was viewed as game changing first rounder in terms of NFL ability, just that he was a too much of problem child to waste that kinda pick on.

Let's not forget on that play a highly physically gifted player executed a well timed blitz on an obvious passing down. The shocking end result of which was a sack on the QB in less than 3.5 seconds.

Teams can have the right play call, the right checks at the LOS, but if the other team has something that counters that dialed up and their athletes out-execute your athletes - what are you going to do?

People act like if the Steelers don't suceed on every play, then there was a mistake somewhere in the chain between play call and play result. Not always the case. This is one of the most galling fallacies of the NFL. Some times, you just get boned no matter what.

[86WARD]

Let's not act as if Berry is Ray Guy....there is no given that the punt goes the way you would think it would go.

[zulater]

As much as a dirtball as he is, Burfict was viewed as game changing first rounder in terms of NFL ability, just that he was a too much of problem child to waste that kinda pick on.

Let's not forget on that play a highly physically gifted player executed a well timed blitz on an obvious passing down. The shocking end result of which was a sack on the QB in less than 3.5 seconds.

Teams can have the right play call, the right checks at the LOS, but if the other team has something that counters that dialed up and their athletes out-execute your athletes - what are you going to do?

People act like if the Steelers don't suceed on every play, then there was a mistake somewhere in the chain between play call and play result. Not always the case. This is one of the most galling fallacies of the NFL. Some times, you just get boned no matter what.


Burfict made a great play no doubt. The play call put him in a position to make it though. Again 3rd and 18 from your own 17. 15-0 lead. 39 seconds left in the 3rd quarter. Burfict and the Bengals buzzing like mad hornets because of the uncalled fumble inducing helmet to helmet hit by Shazier.


Risk / reward analysis Mojo, is dropping your qb back to pass a smart idea? Careful now, down- distance- field position, scoreboard, and time left in game, tell me why I'm passing here? :noidea:

[GoSlash27]

For real... All Ben did was step in in a dire situation, throw a few footballs in pain that most people on this forum have no frame of reference to describe, and engineer the most improbable comeback drive in recent NFL memory. And oh, yeah... *might* have destroyed his remaining career in the process. What's the big deal??

[zulater]

Let's not act as if Berry is Ray Guy....there is no given that the punt goes the way you would think it would go.The chances of it going where you wanted it to go would have been a lot greater had you punted from the 20 as opposed to punting from the 5 as we did after the sack.

[lipps83]

I'm with you up until you place it on Ben for not audibiling.

And that's okay.

I am here to have a discussion with those that have a shared interest (steelers), not triumph over a discussion. I don't need to be right, nor do I care if I am or not.

It is all a matter of perspective. No individual perspective is the correct one. We all are hoping for the same thing in the end (success) and we all have our own idea of how to get there. There is no need to belittle others because their point of view may differ from yours (not saying you did, just putting that out there as a generality).

[86WARD]

The chances of it going where you wanted it to go would have been a lot greater had you punted from the 20 as opposed to punting from the 5 as we did after the sack.

Maybe. With Berry you don't know...

[zulater]

And that's okay.

I am here to have a discussion with those that have a shared interest (steelers), not triumph over a discussion. I don't need to be right, nor do I care if I am or not.

It is all a matter of perspective. No individual perspective is the correct one. We all are hoping for the same thing in the end (success) and we all have our own idea of how to get there. There is no need to belittle others because their point of view may differ from yours (not saying you did, just putting that out there as a generality).

Fair enough. :drink:

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Maybe. With Berry you don't know...

Yeah, that's true.

Boy I wish Sepulveda could have stayed healthy. We haven't had a good punter since that I can remember.

[Psycho Ward 86]

The chances of it going where you wanted it to go would have been a lot greater had you punted from the 20 as opposed to punting from the 5 as we did after the sack.

i saw on a steelersdepot article a while back that our punter has been one of the best at pinning opponents inside the 20 when were in range to do so, but one of the worst in the league from anywhere else

[86WARD]

Fair enough. :drink:

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Yeah, that's true.

Boy I wish Sepulveda could have stayed healthy. We haven't had a good punter since that I can remember.

I don't think the Steelers have ever had a good punter...Sepulveda was probably the best...

[zulater]

I don't think the Steelers have ever had a good punter...Sepulveda was probably the best...

Josh Miller was pretty good for a few years in the 90's. Of course Bobby Walden was and remains the best punter in Steelers history.

[tube517]

I don't think the Steelers have ever had a good punter...Sepulveda was probably the best...

These Aussie guys are inconsistent. They can boom one 70 yards but it flies out of the end zone.

Or if we are pinned inside our end zone, they always shank it and the opposing team starts on the 40 yard line.

I agree with 86, we've never had that punter that can flip field position to our favor. Sepulveda was close but he didn't last.

[86WARD]

Besides Walden, Sepulveda was probably the best they've ever had at the Punter position. Look at the names on the list...it's pretty bad...

[86WARD]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160112/ab6ee286b10fcbd64f09b915a0eb6575.jpg

[tube517]

Besides Walden, Sepulveda was probably the best they've ever had at the Punter position. Look at the names on the list...it's pretty bad...



Leave Paul Ernster and Mitch Berger alone! :chuckle:

Just turrible. Even Walden looked 80 years old by the time the team became dominant. Didn't matter who punted the defense was that damn good :chuckle:

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TCz0lhu4lA

[fansince'76]

Gardocki never had one blocked! :chuckle:

[zulater]

Oh well at least they know how to find fg kickers.

[polamalubeast]

686948468007419904

[Mojouw]

Burfict made a great play no doubt. The play call put him in a position to make it though. Again 3rd and 18 from your own 17. 15-0 lead. 39 seconds left in the 3rd quarter. Burfict and the Bengals buzzing like mad hornets because of the uncalled fumble inducing helmet to helmet hit by Shazier.


Risk / reward analysis Mojo, is dropping your qb back to pass a smart idea? Careful now, down- distance- field position, scoreboard, and time left in game, tell me why I'm passing here? :noidea:

No doubt it is a low percentage play. But here are some things to consider:
1. Everyone knew the Steelers defense was going to bend/break at some point. It has all season.
2. The rain had let up to its largest extent so far at that point in the game (I may be not remembering correctly, but I feel like it was less rainy at the end of the 3rd than previously in the game)
3. The Bengals and the crowd are jacked. The emotions are running at warp speed after the Bernard hit and fumble.

Taking all that in to account, and I knew Tomlin was going to try for the first down. IF (giant IF) the Steelers convert there - they would likely have ripped the heart out of the Bengals and their fans. Stadium goes silent, Bengals D may have totally deflated. That's without even scoring any points. Now, imagine IF that 3rd down conversion leads to points - ball game.

I am not saying that it was the "best" decision, but I knew Tomlin, Haley, and Ben were going to try for it, because it fits their season long pattern of trying to put teams down as soon as they can. My point with my previous post, is that I think Burfict simply beat Gilbert off the line, then Ben thought Gilbert was going to recover to push him past inside so he rolled out. Burfict has an incredible reaction to spin away from Gilbert and resume his pursuit of the QB.

It sucks that the play resulted in an injury to Ben. We will never know how this postseason would have turned out without that play. But I do know that I will always prefer the coach who attempts to put in the dagger - no matter how improbable it may seem - then the coach who would have simply ran 3 straight draw plays and called it good.

[SteelMember]

Josh Miller was pretty good for a few years in the 90's. Of course Bobby Walden was and remains the best punter in Steelers history.

Josh is on sports talk radio in the AM. (93.7 the Fan) Always an interesting story.

[86WARD]

No doubt it is a low percentage play. But here are some things to consider:
1. Everyone knew the Steelers defense was going to bend/break at some point. It has all season.
2. The rain had let up to its largest extent so far at that point in the game (I may be not remembering correctly, but I feel like it was less rainy at the end of the 3rd than previously in the game)
3. The Bengals and the crowd are jacked. The emotions are running at warp speed after the Bernard hit and fumble.

Taking all that in to account, and I knew Tomlin was going to try for the first down. IF (giant IF) the Steelers convert there - they would likely have ripped the heart out of the Bengals and their fans. Stadium goes silent, Bengals D may have totally deflated. That's without even scoring any points. Now, imagine IF that 3rd down conversion leads to points - ball game.

I am not saying that it was the "best" decision, but I knew Tomlin, Haley, and Ben were going to try for it, because it fits their season long pattern of trying to put teams down as soon as they can. My point with my previous post, is that I think Burfict simply beat Gilbert off the line, then Ben thought Gilbert was going to recover to push him past inside so he rolled out. Burfict has an incredible reaction to spin away from Gilbert and resume his pursuit of the QB.

It sucks that the play resulted in an injury to Ben. We will never know how this postseason would have turned out without that play. But I do know that I will always prefer the coach who attempts to put in the dagger - no matter how improbable it may seem - then the coach who would have simply ran 3 straight draw plays and called it good.

I didn't have a problem going for it there.

[zulater]

No doubt it is a low percentage play. But here are some things to consider:
1. Everyone knew the Steelers defense was going to bend/break at some point. It has all season.
2. The rain had let up to its largest extent so far at that point in the game (I may be not remembering correctly, but I feel like it was less rainy at the end of the 3rd than previously in the game)
3. The Bengals and the crowd are jacked. The emotions are running at warp speed after the Bernard hit and fumble.

Taking all that in to account, and I knew Tomlin was going to try for the first down. IF (giant IF) the Steelers convert there - they would likely have ripped the heart out of the Bengals and their fans. Stadium goes silent, Bengals D may have totally deflated. That's without even scoring any points. Now, imagine IF that 3rd down conversion leads to points - ball game.

I am not saying that it was the "best" decision, but I knew Tomlin, Haley, and Ben were going to try for it, because it fits their season long pattern of trying to put teams down as soon as they can. My point with my previous post, is that I think Burfict simply beat Gilbert off the line, then Ben thought Gilbert was going to recover to push him past inside so he rolled out. Burfict has an incredible reaction to spin away from Gilbert and resume his pursuit of the QB.

It sucks that the play resulted in an injury to Ben. We will never know how this postseason would have turned out without that play. But I do know that I will always prefer the coach who attempts to put in the dagger - no matter how improbable it may seem - then the coach who would have simply ran 3 straight draw plays and called it good.

I don't buy it for a second. I think Haley got cocky. I don;t think he thought the situation through.

I get their offense was getting some traction. But the defense was bending not breaking. And say they did punt from the 20 something and they score the td anyway and close the gap to 15-7. You still got a healthy Ben. You still are in a position that you can mix things up on offense to your desire not theirs. Our running game was going well. Ben was starting to find his rhythm. The most dangerous plays in football are 3rd and longs inside your own 20. Sacks, fumbles, interceptions, those negative plays are 10x more likely on bad down and distance situations. Since the game circumstances were so in our favor at that point throwing caution to the wind in a miserable weather game against a tough defense made little to no sense.

Anyway our season ends this Sunday because of everything that happened following that play. I'm glad you got Haley's back. Me I think he blew it big times and he damn well knows it. Might as well drive down the wrong side of the highway 40 mph over the speed limit with your headlights and seatbelts off. To me that's how much you were asking for trouble with that play call. Cowher never would have done it. Guess that's why he never lost when he took a double digit lead to the 4th quarter.

[ALLD]

Josh Miller was pretty good for a few years in the 90's. Of course Bobby Walden was and remains the best punter in Steelers history.

Bobby Walden was as effective as a peg-leg pirate. Coach Noll knew he was so bad that he let the offense run the ball on 4th down instead of punting in Walden's last Super Bowl. Roy Gerela was not much better as a K, but at least he had his "Gorillas". Walden, no way- he just had longevity because of the Steel Curtain.

[Mojouw]

I don't buy it for a second. I think Haley got cocky. I don;t think he thought the situation through.

I get their offense was getting some traction. But the defense was bending not breaking. And say they did punt from the 20 something and they score the td anyway and close the gap to 15-7. You still got a healthy Ben. You still are in a position that you can mix things up on offense to your desire not theirs. Our running game was going well. Ben was starting to find his rhythm. The most dangerous plays in football are 3rd and longs inside your own 20. Sacks, fumbles, interceptions, those negative plays are 10x more likely on bad down and distance situations. Since the game circumstances were so in our favor at that point throwing caution to the wind in a miserable weather game against a tough defense made little to no sense.

Anyway our season ends this Sunday because of everything that happened following that play. I'm glad you got Haley's back. Me I think he blew it big times and he damn well knows it. Might as well drive down the wrong side of the highway 40 mph over the speed limit with your headlights and seatbelts off. To me that's how much you were asking for trouble with that play call. Cowher never would have done it. Guess that's why he never lost when he took a double digit lead to the 4th quarter.

And Cowher's version of "martyball" infuriated many and lost a couple of play-off games as well. If Roethlisberger doesn't get hurt on that play, likely no one remembers it except to restart the "Gilbert sucks" discussions.

I don't buy for a second that just because they were inside their own 20 things were 10x's more likely to have a negative outcome. Anyway, I'm getting backed in to defending the play-call - which really isn't what I set out to do.

I am really arguing that I get a bit frustrated with the following:
1. Negative outcome on "Play X" for the Steelers.
2. Endless debate about how if the coaches had just done "B" instead of "A" on "Play X" then the negative outcome would have been avoided.

The problem with that is it assumes that on every single play there is a strategy, tactic, and/or play call that generates a positive or at least neutral outcome. And that is ridiculous. It gives the opposing team almost no credit and it does not take in to account randomness at all. That is the reality of the NFL - high quality opposition and random acts of football weirdness.

My point is, we will never know what was going on with that play because a supreme individual effort by Burfict and a bit of randomness (Roethlisberger attempting to roll out and the subsequent spin move that landed the blitzer in his lap) conspired to blow the play up before it got started. For all we know it was a brilliant double move down the sideline by Bryant and he was going to be wide open at 4 seconds and the Steelers only got 3.2 seconds.

Considering the Bengals pass rush had been non-existent to that point in the second half, their secondary was missing multiple key components, and the weather was the clearest it had been to that point, how is turning your QB and fleet of gazelle WRs loose in that situation "cocky"? Just because it was 3rd and long on the Steelers end of the field? If the snap had been from midfield and Ben gets just as sacked and just as hurt - does the evaluation of the play call change?

[zulater]

3rd and 18 with those game circumstances I'm playing close to the vest anywhere on my side of the 50. Some risks aren't worth taking. Anyway find where I've questioned play calling in the past? I'm not saying I never do, but very very rarely. Look on these threads find me every questioning a bubble screen. The only time I've questioned play calling in the recent past is when a questionable formation is employed. For example I wasn't a big fan of an empty back set on 1st and goal from the 1 against the Ravens and never will be even when it works. Just as I'm not a fan of a 3 tight end packed in offense in a short yardage situation. ( unless its less than a foot)Run, pass, I don't care, I wont criticsize the result after the fact. I just don't like tipping your hand unnecessarily. Anyway here you have a qb who;s been throwing too many interceptions in recent weeks. Why do you set him up for failure when you don't have to? When you have a double digit lead any possession that ends with a kick is usually good. That is unless you just got your qb killed and force your crappy punter to punt from inside the end zone.

[Mojouw]

3rd and 18 with those game circumstances I'm playing close to the vest anywhere on my side of the 50. Some risks aren't worth taking. Anyway find where I've questioned play calling in the past? I'm not saying I never do, but very very rarely. Look on these threads find me every questioning a bubble screen. The only time I've questioned play calling in the recent past is when a questionable formation is employed. For example I wasn't a big fan of an empty back set on 1st and goal from the 1 against the Ravens and never will be even when it works. Just as I'm not a fan of a 3 tight end packed in offense in a short yardage situation. ( unless its less than a foot)Run, pass, I don't care, I wont criticsize the result after the fact. I just don't like tipping your hand unnecessarily. Anyway here you have a qb who;s been throwing too many interceptions in recent weeks. Why do you set him up for failure when you don't have to? When you have a double digit lead any possession that ends with a kick is usually good. That is unless you just got your qb killed and force your crappy punter to punt from inside the end zone.

Sorry, Zu. My rant wasn't aimed at you at all. And I should have been specific about that from the start. I do see your point(s) and they are good ones. I guess I am just unusually grumpy with the internet this week.

Just get frustrated sometimes on the topic of coaches and play calling. Again, not with anyone specific or an individual posting. Just a general grumpiness.