Pittsburgh, We Have A Pass Rushing Problem

[Shoes]

BY ALEX KOZORA (http://www.steelersdepot.com/author/alex-kozora/) DECEMBER 28, 2015 AT 09:00 AM
14 sacks. That’s all.
14 sacks.
What you’re looking at is the number of sacks from the Pittsburgh Steelers’ outside linebackers in 2015. Remember when that was the goal by a single player? Joey Porter’s 10.5 in 2005. LaMarr Woodley’s 13.5 in 2009? James Harrison’s 16 in 2008,
Good times, good times.
Too bad they feel like a lifetime ago.
Harrison “leads” this current year of outside linebackers with five. Three of those came in the final quarter of an already blown-out win over the Colts. He’s still shown the ability to take over games, and to have even one sack at 37 is no small feat, but that performance aside, he’s been quiet.
Bud Dupree raced out to a fast start, three sacks in his first five games. But he’s not only encountered the rookie wall, he’s slammed into it. His last sack came in November 1st and on tape, it actually looks like he’s regressing.
Jarvis Jones can’t be expected to get many sacks because he is asked to drop into coverage so often, and his impact as an edge rusher is minimal with two takedowns. If he can’t get one in Week 17, those two will tie his career high which tells you all you need to know.
And Arthur Moats has only three, half of those coming in the first three weeks.
Over the last three games, this group has failed to record a single sack. Not one. Nada. Zero. Zilch. 123 opposing pass attempts from the last, Moats’ sack on the next-to-last play in the Colts’ win.
Let me preface by saying sacks aren’t the say-all, end-all. Pressure can be just as important. But if you’ve been watching, and I know you have, you know that has been just as faint. Sacks just allow you to frame the issue with a number.
It’s not for a lack of trying. Jarvis Jones and Bud Dupree are both first round picks. SEC kids with high pedigrees.
It might be time to reinvest in the position. I know, I know. Already.
Dupree will get better. He’s a rookie struggling with rookie-like things. I’m not dogging him. But what can you expect from anyone else on this roster? Moats is at his ceiling, Harrison is in his twilight, and Jones isn’t being projected by anyone as a premier pass rusher.
Compounding the problem, they all are likely to come back. Jones, Moats, and Dupree are locks while it’s looking like Deebo has plans to return. If he does, there’s four spots locked up. Throw in Anthony Chickillo and it’s hard to envision the Steelers adding in a high-profile addition. Are the Steelers stuck to deal with the same issues in 2016, handicapping this defense yet again?
The formula to success isn’t hidden. This isn’t Coca-Cola. When the Steelers have great edge rushers, they win games. They make the playoffs. They win Super Bowls. In the six playoff seasons since 2005, the Steelers’ sack leader averages 10.3 per season. In the four non-playoff years, that number dips to 8.6. If the Steelers want to be a success, they’re going to need to find a way to improve.
If only it was the lone defensive area to address. You can make a case the Steelers need to add at cornerback, safety, and depth along the defensive line just as badly. Pick your poison. Help one area, be forced to neglect another.
So what’s the answer? Bite the bullet, draft an OLB within the first two rounds? Hope you can figure the rest of the defense out? Or do you hope you get a little lucky in 2016 and have someone like Dupree develop into a ten sack type of guy? Is that worth being content with Jones and Harrison combining for seven sacks, max?
It’s a difficult, complex problem. And one that count haunt the Steelers again a year from now.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/12/pittsburgh-we-have-a-pass-rushing-problem/

[Count Steeler]

So they must be dropping off into pass coverage more often?

[katmandu]

So they must be dropping off into pass coverage more often?Something BIG is missing from yesteryear when all those sacks where happening...... The something BIG is Big Snack.

Big Snack used to clog up the middle taking on 2 O-lineman. That obviously freed up the linebackers to cause havoc.

This team is in serious need of a real NT ASAP.

[steelreserve]

Something BIG is missing from yesteryear when all those sacks where happening...... The something BIG is Big Snack.

Big Snack used to clog up the middle taking on 2 O-lineman. That obviously freed up the linebackers to cause havoc.

This team is in serious need of a real NT ASAP.


Am I hallucinating? People actually coming around to the idea that you can't play a 3-4 defense with no nose tackle? The key to success isn't the edge rushers; it's a big 330-pound fat guy.

It really helps when you have Harrison or Porter abusing a running back or a pass-catching tight end, instead of going straight-up against an offensive tackle. Hell, if we had a guy like Hampton, I bet Harrison wouldn't even look like he "lost a step;" he'd be setting records for most sacks by an old guy.

We need another good NT as soon as possible, and really should've made that move years ago. People bitch about spending draft picks on them because of their snap count, but they're just fooling themselves with sabermetric bullshit. Get a nose tackle now and save two or three blown draft picks later on pass rushers who mysteriously don't develop.

For all that's made of Pittsburgh fans appreciating a good quarterback because we didn't have one for 20 years, you could say the opposite is true about nose tackles because we DID have good ones for 20 years in a row. People take it for granted and think a good pass rush is just going to materialize, because Steelers.

[pepsyman1]

Something BIG is missing from yesteryear when all those sacks where happening...... The something BIG is Big Snack.

Big Snack used to clog up the middle taking on 2 O-lineman. That obviously freed up the linebackers to cause havoc.

This team is in serious need of a real NT ASAP.

I'd love to know what's happening with big Dan McCullers. We don't see him play except an occasional play. If he hasn't gotten a handle on the position and the work necessary for the NFL why is he still taking a roster spot. The kid had some huge potential if you ask any of the coaches

[steelreserve]

I'd love to know what's happening with big Dan McCullers. We don't see him play except an occasional play. If he hasn't gotten a handle on the position and the work necessary for the NFL why is he still taking a roster spot. The kid had some huge potential if you ask any of the coaches

He was a late-round project guy and he's still a project, is my guess. Not necessarily a bad player, but unfortunately at this point if he was going to be a dominant force in the middle, we probably would've seen some signs of that by now.

I'd still far prefer having him on the roster over, say, Cam Thomas. But if we're looking for the next Casey Hampton, the search has to go on.

(Spoiler: We aren't, and it probably won't.)

[Steeldude]

Something BIG is missing from yesteryear when all those sacks where happening...... The something BIG is Big Snack.

Big Snack used to clog up the middle taking on 2 O-lineman. That obviously freed up the linebackers to cause havoc.

This team is in serious need of a real NT ASAP.

A young Hampton isn't going to turn the OLBs into pass rushers. They will still be blocked by someone. The huge problem is, outside of a fading Harrison, none of the OLBs can get to the QB via their own abilities.

The game has changed. The spread formations used today forces defenses to use 5 DBs. Guess who gets benched?

[Shoes]

A young Hampton isn't going to turn the OLBs into pass rushers. They will still be blocked by someone. The huge problem is, outside of a fading Harrison, none of the OLBs can get to the QB via their own abilities.

The game has changed. The spread formations used today forces defenses to use 5 DBs. Guess who gets benched?

I think this is even more so with J.Jones, the sad thing is Jones is putting in the effort, he just can't get there. I agree 100 % with Alex on Bud.

[86WARD]

There is a lack of NT and lack of pass rushing OLB. It's that simple.

[86WARD]

Dupree's sacks weren't "real" pass rushing sacks either...they were more or less "gimmes".

[43Hitman]

Dupree dong sacks..lol

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[TD's & Beer]

Pittsburgh, we have a choking problem. We learned the Steelers have become one with the Pirates and Pens.

[steelreserve]

A young Hampton isn't going to turn the OLBs into pass rushers. They will still be blocked by someone. The huge problem is, outside of a fading Harrison, none of the OLBs can get to the QB via their own abilities.

The game has changed. The spread formations used today forces defenses to use 5 DBs. Guess who gets benched?


Why are good nose tackles drafted so highly for their snap count, then? Why do all the other teams want them? Do we know something they don't?

[Rotorhead]

I think Dupree will be fine, he flashed some skill, he is quick, but has to learn still. If we could get a starting CB sometime, we could help cover up the lack of pass rush quite a bit. Hell, look at the Bronco/Bengal game, the first half AJ was getting the ball out too fast for their pass rush to get to him (and I would say they have the best pass rush in the game). Once the Broncos moved to a zone coverage, making AJ have to go through his reads, creating more time for the rush to get there, it was better. We have a 2 fold problem, our pass rush isnt that good and our DB are terrible. Pass rushers, not matter how good still need some time to get to the QB and our DBs are not good enough to give them the time. We need to fix our DB problem before we need to address our OLB problem. We need a DB to take the 1st target out of the game and make the QB's go through there progressions. Honestly, I think Gay would be a great #2, Boykin and Cockrell would be fine on #3 and slot WR's. We get Ike 2.0 (hopefully who can catch the INT's) and our defense improves a huge amount.

[Shoes]

My 2nd round pick would be one of the following:

Jarran Reed

Austin Johnson

Kenny Clark

[steelreserve]

My 2nd round pick would be one of the following:

Jarran Reed

Austin Johnson

Kenny Clark


Sad thing is, at least one of those guys will almost certainly be available with our second pick, and either one of them or someone similar will be there in the third.

Will we take them? Nope - OLB, WR. Or something along those lines.

[hawaiiansteeler]

A young Hampton isn't going to turn the OLBs into pass rushers. They will still be blocked by someone. The huge problem is, outside of a fading Harrison, none of the OLBs can get to the QB via their own abilities.

The game has changed. The spread formations used today forces defenses to use 5 DBs. Guess who gets benched?

you're absolutely right, a dominant NT isn't going to occupy blockers and free up our LBers to rush the QB when the other team spreads us out because our NT will then be sitting on the bench...

[Shoes]

We need both OLB & DT. Big Dan isn't the answer im afraid.

[steelreserve]

The spread formations used today forces defenses to use 5 DBs. Guess who gets benched?

Not Blake, that's for sure!



you're absolutely right, a dominant NT isn't going to occupy blockers and free up our LBers to rush the QB when the other team spreads us out because our NT will then be sitting on the bench...

By snap count, one of McCullers, McLendon and Cam Thomas has been on the field about 65% of the time. Tuitt has been 76% and Heyward 87% (which is almost superhuman and probably not typical). So basically the argument is that because a nose tackle is in the game for 10% fewer snaps than other defensive linemen - fuck it, let's just run whoever out there and have a shitty player on the field two-thirds of the time.

Not to mention that when you have a GOOD nose tackle, those two-thirds of snaps take on even more importance because he tends to swing them in your favor. Definitely something that's been missing. Tuitt and Heyward are good enough that we can kind of fake it, but not enough to fully make up for it.

[tube517]

By snap count, one of McCullers, McLendon and Cam Thomas has been on the field about 65% of the time

That's the number I've been curious about. It just seems less but I'm too busy sometimes looking where the hell Blake is.

[hawaiiansteeler]

By snap count, one of McCullers, McLendon and Cam Thomas has been on the field about 65% of the time. Tuitt has been 76% and Heyward 87% (which is almost superhuman and probably not typical). So basically the argument is that because a nose tackle is in the game for 10% fewer snaps than other defensive linemen - fuck it, let's just run whoever out there and have a shitty player on the field two-thirds of the time.

Not to mention that when you have a GOOD nose tackle, those two-thirds of snaps take on even more importance because he tends to swing them in your favor. Definitely something that's been missing. Tuitt and Heyward are good enough that we can kind of fake it, but not enough to fully make up for it.

those numbers are skewed because both McLendon and especially Cam Thomas have also played at DE to give Heyward and Tuitt their occasional rest.

[hawaiiansteeler]

That's the number I've been curious about. It just seems less but I'm too busy sometimes looking where the hell Blake is.

it is less, the Steelers have a true NT on the field only about half of all defensive snaps...

[steelreserve]

those numbers are skewed because both McLendon and especially Cam Thomas have also played at DE to give Heyward and Tuitt their occasional rest.


it is less, the Steelers have a true NT on the field only about half of all defensive snaps...


By the same token, having a shitty player on the field for half of all defensive snaps isn't much better than having a shitty player on the field for 60% or 65%. Not at a key position like that. It's not as if nose tackle is like tight end or fullback, where you can get by with a shitty one or do without. It's a fuckin' important part of the defense.

When we had Dwyer and Redman as our only running backs, how did that work out? We only run the ball 40% of the time, so it shouldn't matter who the hell we throw back there, right? Bell was a wasted pick!

The other thing missing is that it depends on what kind of player you have at NT. If you have one that can actually help pressure the quarterback in obvious passing situations, you can leave him out there sometimes. There are all kinds of nickel defenses: 2-4-5 formation, 3-3-5 formation, and any number of variations, hybrids, twists, whatever. I have a feeling that if we were talking about 2005 Casey Hampton doing more good on third-and-8 than, say, Jarvis Jones ... that's a completely different argument than if your nose tackle is Steve McLendon or Cam Thomas.

[hawaiiansteeler]

By the same token, having a shitty player on the field for half of all defensive snaps isn't much better than having a shitty player on the field for 60% or 65%. Not at a key position like that. It's not as if nose tackle is like tight end or fullback, where you can get by with a shitty one or do without. It's a fuckin' important part of the defense.

When we had Dwyer and Redman as our only running backs, how did that work out? We only run the ball 40% of the time, so it shouldn't matter who the hell we throw back there, right? Bell was a wasted pick!

The other thing missing is that it depends on what kind of player you have at NT. If you have one that can actually help pressure the quarterback in obvious passing situations, you can leave him out there sometimes. There are all kinds of nickel defenses: 2-4-5 formation, 3-3-5 formation, and any number of variations, hybrids, twists, whatever. I have a feeling that if we were talking about 2005 Casey Hampton doing more good on third-and-8 than, say, Jarvis Jones ... that's a completely different argument than if your nose tackle is Steve McLendon or Cam Thomas.

I happen to agree with you, was just playing devil's advocate. every time it is suggested that you can't run a 3-4 defense properly without a good NT the argument is brought up that the NT position has become antiquated and obsolete because of the NFL now being such a pass happy league.

if you get the chance watch Baylor's Andrew Billings in the bowl game today, he would look great in the center of our defense. we would have to use our first round pick on him but he would be well worth it. I would rather we did that instead of selecting yet another LB...

[fansince'76]

if you get the chance watch Baylor's Andrew Billings in the bowl game today, he would look great in the center of our defense. we would have to use our first round pick on him but he would be well worth it. I would rather we did that instead of selecting yet another LB...

Nope. OLBs in the first 2 rounds, just to make SR's head asplode... :chuckle:

[zulater]

Outside of Tuitt and Heyward and Mike Mitchell there are no givens on this defense going into 16. Shazier has shown flashes. Perhaps once Timmons is out of the picture he'll step out from the shadows? Speaking of Timmons, his cap hit is huge next year, good chance they release him in the offseason because of it. His play has dropped off considerably this year, he's not worth the money they're paying him. And next year he only figures to get worse. The sad fact is the defense could be just as bad or worse next year. I think the Steelers need to reconsider how they built their roster next year. You see teams like the Jets and Broncos reach out last offseason and sign Talib and Reavis. The Steelers need to bring in some top tier veteran defensive talent to plug in some gaps. You have an offense that is among if not the best in the league. You can't waste another year of Ben's career. They have to address this defense with more than draft picks and C type free agents.

[tube517]

Nope. OLBs in the first 2 rounds, just to make SR's head asplode... :chuckle:

and the DB in the 5th... only to be cut during camp

[43Hitman]

Outside of Tuitt and Heyward and Mike Mitchell there are no givens on this defense going into 16. Shazier has shown flashes. Perhaps once Timmons is out of the picture he'll step out from the shadows? Speaking of Timmons, his cap hit is huge next year, good chance they release him in the offseason because of it. His play has dropped off considerably this year, he's not worth the money they're paying him. And next year he only figures to get worse. The sad fact is the defense could be just as bad or worse next year. I think the Steelers need to reconsider how they built their roster next year. You see teams like the Jets and Broncos reach out last offseason and sign Talib and Reavis. The Steelers need to bring in some top tier veteran defensive talent to plug in some gaps. You have an offense that is among if not the best in the league. You can't waste another year of Ben's career. They have to address this defense with more than draft picks and C type free agents.
I agree completely. I really hope that one of the young corners we drafted this year can step up next year. Sanquez (sp?) was really coming along till his injury happened. Grant could help in the depth department too. Maybe if you add a free agent veteran to help continue the development of these young guys, that could be the difference.

Butler having a full year under his belt calling plays on defense can only be a good thing. We are so close, it just kills me to see them floundering out there.

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[hawaiiansteeler]

Nope. OLBs in the first 2 rounds, just to make SR's head asplode... :chuckle:

Round 1: Leonard Floyd OLB Georgia

Round 2: Jordan Jenkins OLB Georgia

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and the DB in the 5th... only to be cut during camp

we won't have a 5th round pick this year as we have to send it to the Eagles for Brandon Boykin.

as a result, we're gonna have to select one in the 4th...

[steelreserve]

I happen to agree with you, was just playing devil's advocate. every time it is suggested that you can't run a 3-4 defense properly without a good NT the argument is brought up that the NT position has become antiquated and obsolete because of the NFL now being such a pass happy league.

if you get the chance watch Baylor's Andrew Billings in the bowl game today, he would look great in the center of our defense. we would have to use our first round pick on him but he would be well worth it. I would rather we did that instead of selecting yet another LB...


Yeah, as I said somewhere else (perhaps it was this thread), better to use a first-round pick now and save two wasted ones later. By my count, we're at one first and a second wasted (Jones and Worilds), and are in danger of a third if we don't do anything. And guess what, the misses will keep on coming as long as we don't address it.

You know that "rookie wall" that Dupree hit? It's not a wall, it's that other teams figured out they have to account for him ... and when you know you have the advantage in numbers because you can block the nose tackle 1-on-1, it's just a matter of reallocating your resources to make sure you put an offensive tackle on him, or chip him with the TE and still have a running back ready to block. It's not that Dupree is a bad player at all; just nobody can be expected to succeed very often against that. It's a cascading failure, just like the one Blake causes because the other DBs all have to adjust to compensate for him.

It's a real shame, because we really are just TWO players away from being a truly dominant team. But those holes are big ones and they give other teams a bull's-eye the size of the sun to shoot for. I don't care how they fix it. Drafting nothing but DTs and DBs this offseason, bucking our trend and signing that $8 million free agent this one time, firing Carnell Lake and paying $50 million to get the best DB coach in the world, bringing in a 400-pound sumo wrestler for the defensive line - just do something. If they fix those two problems, I guarantee you they will win the Super Bowl within the next two years.

[tube517]

Round 1: Leonard Floyd OLB Georgia

Round 2: Jordan Jenkins OLB Georgia

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we won't have a 5th round pick this year as we have to send it to the Eagles for Brandon Boykin.

as a result, we're gonna have to select one in the 4th...

You are correct. He will still get cut in camp/pre-season. :chuckle:

[katmandu]

A young Hampton isn't going to turn the OLBs into pass rushers. They will still be blocked by someone. The "key" to the formula is to have a NT that DEMANDS a double team of OLs to block him.

That obviously frees up the defensive to cause havoc.

McClendon and Big Dan do not demand being double teamed.

Hopefully someone will piss in Big Dan's Wheaties and he starts to play with a pissed off attitude!

[katmandu]

Yeah, as I said somewhere else (perhaps it was this thread), better to use a first-round pick now and save two wasted ones later. By my count, we're at one first and a second wasted (Jones and Worilds), and are in danger of a third if we don't do anything. And guess what, the misses will keep on coming as long as we don't address it.The misses have a huge accumulative effect on the total quality of our defense. It's going to be much more difficult to rebound from those shittty decisions. We can't afford all this swing and a miss drafting anymore.