Mike Mitchell Fined For Tyler Eifert Hit

[polamalubeast]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/12/report-mike-mitchell-fined-for-eifert-hit/

[Drazo85]

Come on. Steelers are least penalized team in NFL, but somehow every player on this roster is fined. I expect go hell to fine Ben in coming weeks.

[salamander]

Just keep piling it on, Goodell. :ranger:

[Steelman]

Most expensive game fine-wise in history? Geez. This is nuts.

[Craic]

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e29fade8702e3af9a7222bdbea10199919931549/c=721-0-4148-2577&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2015/12/13/Cincinnati/Cincinnati/635856332170642515-Eifert-Concussion.jpeg

Yep, that's definitely a fine. I have no problem with it. In game time, I was pretty confused and upset over the penalty, but seeing like this . . . it makes complete sense.

[SteelerFanInStl]

That's Mitchell's fault for always trying to make the big hit instead of just wrapping up and making the tackle.

[hawaiiansteeler]

That's Mitchell's fault for always trying to make the big hit instead of just wrapping up and making the tackle.

Huddle Up: A conversation with Steelers safety Mike Mitchell

First thing you’d change in the NFL if you were commissioner?

MM: That’s easy, it would be this helmet-to-helmet stuff. I totally get it with CTE and player safety. Obviously I don’t want to have CTE when I’m older or depression or any kind of brain trauma. But if you look at the play Sunday I got flagged for, that was a perfectly targeted shot to that guy’s stomach. When I see the ball thrown, my eyes now go to the receiver. I don’t know that the ball is thrown low. I don’t know that he’s going to dive and go low to catch the ball.

When the ref explained it to me, it wasn’t a subjective thing, It’s ‘Did he hit in the head or didn’t he?’ What do you want me to do in that situation, NFL, let him catch the ball?

Yes - they want you to let the ball be caught if it means you hit the receiver in the head otherwise...

to read rest of interview:

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/12/18/mike-mitchell-pittsburgh-steelers-huddle-up

[zulater]

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e29fade8702e3af9a7222bdbea10199919931549/c=721-0-4148-2577&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2015/12/13/Cincinnati/Cincinnati/635856332170642515-Eifert-Concussion.jpeg

Yep, that's definitely a fine. I have no problem with it. In game time, I was pretty confused and upset over the penalty, but seeing like this . . . it makes complete sense.

I get it. But when you watch that play in real time you see that Eifert changed his "pad level" as Mitchell came across the field. I think the penalty was perfectly in order. But here's my problem. If that's a fine why wasn't it a fine when Ben got hit in the face mask by a Seahawk? And if I'm not mistaken I think that Seahawk player has a history of questionable hits (as does Mitchell). What I'm saying is this. If the defense for the Seahawk defender was that Ben slightly altered his head level therefore a fine wasn't justified. Then why did Mitchell get fined? Again in real time I think it's pretty obvious Mitchell came across to make the tackle. If Eifert doesn't duck down it's not a helmet to helmet hit.

[ALLD]

First thing I would do if I was NFL Commissioner would be to send Goodell to Syria and get ride of the grounding rule. Why not also have a Scrub Bowl of the two worst teams instead of the Pro Bowl which nobody watches?

[Craic]

That's Mitchell's fault for always trying to make the big hit instead of just wrapping up and making the tackle.

Yep.


I get it. But when you watch that play in real time you see that Eifert changed his "pad level" as Mitchell came across the field. I think the penalty was perfectly in order. But here's my problem. If that's a fine why wasn't it a fine when Ben got hit in the face mask by a Seahawk? And if I'm not mistaken I think that Seahawk player has a history of questionable hits (as does Mitchell). What I'm saying is this. If the defense for the Seahawk defender was that Ben slightly altered his head level therefore a fine wasn't justified. Then why did Mitchell get fined? Again in real time I think it's pretty obvious Mitchell came across to make the tackle. If Eifert doesn't duck down it's not a helmet to helmet hit.

I don't remember the actual hit on Ben (I'd have to see it again), but wasn't he also pushed into Ben? (Legitimately, rather than what Burfict claimed?) Either way, I agree, there needs to be more consistency. I go back to my position a few years ago. Take off the helmets and the monster shoulder pads, and then let them play. It'd cut down on head injuries REAL fast.

[steelreserve]

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e29fade8702e3af9a7222bdbea10199919931549/c=721-0-4148-2577&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2015/12/13/Cincinnati/Cincinnati/635856332170642515-Eifert-Concussion.jpeg

Yep, that's definitely a fine. I have no problem with it. In game time, I was pretty confused and upset over the penalty, but seeing like this . . . it makes complete sense.


I've got a problem with it. The hit was not aimed at head level. That's straight in the middle of the torso, but the receiver moved into it. Non-penalty and non-fine in my book.

I know, I know, but the exact wording of the rule says ...

well, then it's a stupid rule and it shouldn't be a rule.

If you aim at someone's head, fine, we get it, you're not supposed to do that. If you aim somewhere else and the receiver ducks into it, falls into it, gets blocked into it, turns into it, spins into it, flies into it, boogies into it, Macarenas into it - that's just called bonking heads by accident. You did what the rule intended because you didn't aim at the head. I don't know what else they want.

If this was just an occasional thing that happened, then maybe it'd be ok, but it has become the great majority of flags and the great majority of fines. When that's the case, you're not doing anything, repeat ANYTHING to improve player safety. You're just handing out fines at random and influencing the outcome of the game at random. Stupid rule interpreted stupidly - but what else would you expect from a stupid commissioner.

[86WARD]

Again, how is the defense supposed to stop momentum? Should be Eifert's fault for going to the ground...lol.

[Craic]

I've got a problem with it. The hit was not aimed at head level. That's straight in the middle of the torso, but the receiver moved into it. Non-penalty and non-fine in my book.

I know, I know, but the exact wording of the rule says ...

well, then it's a stupid rule and it shouldn't be a rule.

If you aim at someone's head, fine, we get it, you're not supposed to do that. If you aim somewhere else and the receiver ducks into it, falls into it, gets blocked into it, turns into it, spins into it, flies into it, boogies into it, Macarenas into it - that's just called bonking heads by accident. You did what the rule intended because you didn't aim at the head. I don't know what else they want.

If this was just an occasional thing that happened, then maybe it'd be ok, but it has become the great majority of flags and the great majority of fines. When that's the case, you're not doing anything, repeat ANYTHING to improve player safety. You're just handing out fines at random and influencing the outcome of the game at random. Stupid rule interpreted stupidly - but what else would you expect from a stupid commissioner.


Again, how is the defense supposed to stop momentum? Should be Eifert's fault for going to the ground...lol.

The answer to both of these is very easy.

You keep your head up. I don't buy the "momentum" argument because in other sports, such as hockey, there's a much greater amount of momentum, and yet, they've had rules for years concerning certain types of checks. Rules that stick and players know them (such as checking from behind, which is very similar since a player can turn his back at any moment as a defender is skating into him). The problem isn't ability, it's lack of proper tackling due to a desire to make it onto ESPN or the NFL channel or Youtube or wherever else for "Teh grEATezT hIT EverZ!"

[86WARD]

If Mitchell's head is "up" he hits with his facemask...still with the helmet. Hockey there is momentum, but they also have both feet on the ice and can stop very easily with skates on.

[salamander]

Eifert is going down, what is Mitchell supposed to do? I get that he shouldn't be leading with his head like that, but with Eifert going down like that it's iffy.

[Craic]

If Mitchell's head is "up" he hits with his facemask...still with the helmet. Hockey there is momentum, but they also have both feet on the ice and can stop very easily with skates on.

Actually, no. If his head's up, he can make the slight adjustment to hit the torso, rather than the head. And, in football, both feet are on the ground, or it's a penalty, since you can't launch into a player. Moreover, trust me, it's harder to stop on a dime on ice than it is on grass, since you literally have to turn your whole body sideways so the edges of the blade can cut across the ice. It takes a whole lot more body control and balance, and that's my point. These are professionals whose entire life is about honing their body and reflexes for their sport. Beyond that, the argument that they can't stop it would hold a lot more water if there wasn't another sport with virtually the same angles and speeds and collisions, but its players avoid what in football would be illegal hits all the time.

[86WARD]

Actually, no. If his head's up, he can make the slight adjustment to hit the torso, rather than the head. And, in football, both feet are on the ground, or it's a penalty, since you can't launch into a player. Moreover, trust me, it's harder to stop on a dime on ice than it is on grass, since you literally have to turn your whole body sideways so the edges of the blade can cut across the ice. It takes a whole lot more body control and balance, and that's my point. These are professionals whose entire life is about honing their body and reflexes for their sport. Beyond that, the argument that they can't stop it would hold a lot more water if there wasn't another sport with virtually the same angles and speeds and collisions, but its players avoid what in football would be illegal hits all the time.

If Eifert stays up, that hit is perfectly across the center of the body. You're not making adjustments at that speed head up , head down, whatever. Most people that say you can make the adjustments that easy havent played a sport. That stuff when it happens at high speed is instinctual. It's not as easy as just making an adjustment. There's too many variables to avoid that totally. I still think he hits helmet to helmet with head up or head down.

I've played both and to be honest on skates, you can stop on a dime pretty easily if you know how to ride the inside edge of your skate and to be honest, the more momentum you have going forward, the easier it is to stop, if you don't you just go in circles. It's a lot easier to stop on ice than one would think if you know how to skate.

- - - Updated - - -

In this video it happens so fast that it doesn't even look like helmets hit.

iZ91dHZKpjh

[Count Steeler]

Mitchell should have been fined for his stupid celebration after that hit. Eifert got the first down, WTF is Mitchell celebrating? I remember that play now, and I remember thinking, "How dumb is this guy?". Wow, he tackled a TE, AFTER making a first down. Who the F was he peacocking to? And WHY?!

[Craic]

If Eifert stays up, that hit is perfectly across the center of the body. You're not making adjustments at that speed head up , head down, whatever. Most people that say you can make the adjustments that easy havent played a sport. That stuff when it happens at high speed is instinctual. It's not as easy as just making an adjustment. There's too many variables to avoid that totally. I still think he hits helmet to helmet with head up or head down.

I've played both and to be honest on skates, you can stop on a dime pretty easily if you know how to ride the inside edge of your skate and to be honest, the more momentum you have going forward, the easier it is to stop, if you don't you just go in circles. It's a lot easier to stop on ice than one would think if you know how to skate.

- - - Updated - - -

In this video it happens so fast that it doesn't even look like helmets hit.

iZ91dHZKpjh

The problem, however, is he (1) leads with his head, (2) has his arms tucked into his side (see other pics), and (3) is making a horrible tackle no matter how the guy is situated. Again, it's big hit ESPN style, rather than actually tackling the player. The guy is falling, so he ends up with a penalty. His fault for not simply tackling the guy instead of trying to make a highlight reel.

As for momentum and ice . . . yeah, I played for years as well. The point is, hockey is even faster than football with even more momentum, yet players have been responsible for controlling themselves from the beginning (checking from behind, charging, intent to injure, etc). In a sport that's faster and just as physical when it comes to hitting, they have control. The problem isn't the rules, its the knuckleheads who fail to adapt to the change. Look at Harrison. When was the last time he drew a penalty? Why? Because he's adapted. Think back to Ryan Clark, who, in his last two or three years, adapted his style of hitting and tremendously cut down on penalties.

Besides, if it's so inevitable, then why are there only 4 fines for helmet-to-helmet hits this season, or 5 last season? That doesn't come across as inevitable. It paints a picture of most players having control over their tackling, and every once in a while, someone screws up.

[steelreserve]

Actually, no. If his head's up, he can make the slight adjustment to hit the torso, rather than the head. And, in football, both feet are on the ground, or it's a penalty, since you can't launch into a player. Moreover, trust me, it's harder to stop on a dime on ice than it is on grass, since you literally have to turn your whole body sideways so the edges of the blade can cut across the ice. It takes a whole lot more body control and balance, and that's my point. These are professionals whose entire life is about honing their body and reflexes for their sport. Beyond that, the argument that they can't stop it would hold a lot more water if there wasn't another sport with virtually the same angles and speeds and collisions, but its players avoid what in football would be illegal hits all the time.


1) Hockey players aren't trying to make tackles - they're basically doing the equivalent of blocking;

2) There IS a legitimate reason in football to go for the big hit, which is to make your opponent drop the ball. A form tackle does not do that;

3) People bonk heads in football all the time, and by now it is almost universally by accident because the players aren't idiots;

4) This utopia of form tackles and rugby-like plays is just not going to happen. It isn't.


Considering all of the above, I would just rather not have the penalties and fines because they don't do anything. The time for more rules and this kind of argument to make any difference was back around like 2007, when they were just figuring out about concussions and people still thought nailing a receiver in the head was a good play. They know; they don't anymore; the time for this to make any difference is OVER. 95% of it is just horseshit penalties now.

[ALLD]

Looks like a lot of different intentions based on changing circumstances. I think they were looking to fine Mitchell for anything and this is the best they could come up with. There's nothing definitive about it. Even the picture is taken out of context. The WR made at least 2 changes and Mitchell tried to adjust.

If Mitchell stops leading with his head he will not receive so much attention.

[silver & black]

I'm glad he's your headache now. He's a good player. He always wanted/wants to be Jack Tatum. It's why he is no longer a Raider. He cares more about laying the wood than he does about actually making the play/tackle. It's too bad.... I loved his attitude and motor when he was a Raider. He just needs to settle down and play smart but, I don't think he ever will. Good luck with him.

[86WARD]

Mitchell should have been fined for his stupid celebration after that hit. Eifert got the first down, WTF is Mitchell celebrating? I remember that play now, and I remember thinking, "How dumb is this guy?". Wow, he tackled a TE, AFTER making a first down. Who the F was he peacocking to? And WHY?!

I thought that too and during the game, I thought he was celebrating and had barely made contact. I thought I missed something...lol. He's a decent player...but the celebrating he does...it's just terrible.

[steelreserve]

I'm glad he's your headache now. He's a good player. He always wanted/wants to be Jack Tatum. It's why he is no longer a Raider. He cares more about laying the wood than he does about actually making the play/tackle. It's too bad.... I loved his attitude and motor when he was a Raider. He just needs to settle down and play smart but, I don't think he ever will. Good luck with him.

Well, yeah, he plays stupid and goes for the big hits, but at least he usually makes the tackle. We also have guys who are the same way but without making the tackle.

[Craic]

1) Hockey players aren't trying to make tackles - they're basically doing the equivalent of blocking;

The point wasn't tackling vs. blocking, it was having control of your body. Nevertheless, that hit Mitchell put on him? yeah, that's closer to a check than a tackle, anyway.


2) There IS a legitimate reason in football to go for the big hit, which is to make your opponent drop the ball. A form tackle does not do that;

Every single play? While risking not wrapping and watching the guy run forty more yards down the field and score, like we've seen how many times this year? Sorry, but I'd prefer them to, oh, I don't know, actually tackle the guy once in a while rather than bounce off him and let him gain another 3 dozen yards.


3) People bonk heads in football all the time, and by now it is almost universally by accident because the players aren't idiots;

And the minute they stop penalizing and fining for it, it'll go back to what it was.


4) This utopia of form tackles and rugby-like plays is just not going to happen. It isn't.
Um, actually, yes it is. (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/25356375/how-pete-carrolls-rugby-style-tackle-is-changing-college-football) And, the second best team in the NFL against the run is using that very method (https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/27/seahawks-coach-pete-carroll-tells-his-players-tackle-like-rugby-player/OQy6KCmN7zfSPgKDCzthhM/story.html). Considering there's on average 3 times as many tackles in any given Rugby game as Football, their coaches have literally honed the art of tackling in the same way NFL coaches have honed the Tampa-2 or Fire-zone blitz or West-coast offense. Moreover, considering Rugby tackling is now being taught at the youth levels, it's going to become the method of tackling in the NFL in 15-20 or so years when these kids are in their mid-twenties and playing in the NFL.

[steelreserve]

The point wasn't tackling vs. blocking, it was having control of your body. Nevertheless, that hit Mitchell put on him? yeah, that's closer to a check than a tackle, anyway.



Every single play? While risking not wrapping and watching the guy run forty more yards down the field and score, like we've seen how many times this year? Sorry, but I'd prefer them to, oh, I don't know, actually tackle the guy once in a while rather than bounce off him and let him gain another 3 dozen yards.



And the minute they stop penalizing and fining for it, it'll go back to what it was.


Um, actually, yes it is. (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/25356375/how-pete-carrolls-rugby-style-tackle-is-changing-college-football) And, the second best team in the NFL against the run is using that very method (https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/27/seahawks-coach-pete-carroll-tells-his-players-tackle-like-rugby-player/OQy6KCmN7zfSPgKDCzthhM/story.html). Considering there's on average 3 times as many tackles in any given Rugby game as Football, their coaches have literally honed the art of tackling in the same way NFL coaches have honed the Tampa-2 or Fire-zone blitz or West-coast offense. Moreover, considering Rugby tackling is now being taught at the youth levels, it's going to become the method of tackling in the NFL in 15-20 or so years when these kids are in their mid-twenties and playing in the NFL.


I'm sorry, but I just don't see any of that happening. Form tackling is and always has been taught. It's not as if you can go through the various levels of football from grade school through college, and all of your probably 100+ coaches and assistant coaches who played the game 20 years ago will tell you "Fuck it! Don't do what I did and learn how to bring a guy down! Just do a flying shoulder block all the time and see what happens!"

So then all the good players are the ones who suck at fundamentals and gamble all-or-nothing on every play going for big hits, and the college scouts are too stupid to see this and give those guys D1 scholarships despite the fact that they're fucking up and missing tackles all the time - no, the scouts are all blinded by the two or three highlight-reel hits and don't even write down anything else - and the guys who know how to tackle are all left sucking it at the end of the bench.

Then the highlight-reel shoulder tacklers with poor fundamentals are somehow the same ones who make it to the NFL, because all THOSE scouts and coaches all suck too, and they can't tell the difference between playing good defense and making a couple big plays in the middle of 20 missed tackles either. At this point, at least 50,000 coaches and scouts are fucking up, and obviously none have the right idea, because if only one of them picked the guys who knew form tackling, they'd be kicking everyone's ass up and down the field all day.

I mean, shit - these are professional coaches, so I'll trust that they know what they're doing, thank you, because they have The Knowledge and I am but a mere fan. Or wait, I guess I shouldn't trust that any of them know what the hell they're doing, because they don't even know the basics of the game, and so all the players at the highest level of the game just throw themselves around like idiots despite the fact that it's the opposite of what you should do to win, and nobody has figured that out.

Or maybe there's a simpler explanation, which is that there actually IS value to the big hit, and over time the players who are good enough to do both that and regular tackling, and who know when you can take a chance for a big hit, are the ones who get the game-changing plays and come out winners. And the coaches who have those players are winners. And it's part of the game. And that the players who hesitate are the ones who give up the catch and another 10 yards, and play at Monmouth State and don't get invited to the combine, and end up marrying fat Dolores from fat Milwaukee, and telling everyone about how they were sure they would've got an invite to training camp from the Rams if they hadn't hurt their shoulder during their job installing carpets, which isn't really what they do. And all the horseshit penalties don't make those guys into winners or the big hitters into losers, and doesn't make anyone any safer at any level of the game - it just adds random penalties.

That, and it's easy to call out Mike Mitchell because we all know he acts like a fucking idiot.