Pass Defense.

[polamalubeast]

I do not want to be negative, but the pass defense is 31th in yards allowed

Manziel has had 375 yards against us,yesterday Mccarron has had 282 yards and when the Steelers played against a very good QB (Wilson) the Steelers have given 39 points.

At least the red zone defense is great for the most part but I fear that this pass defense cost us another game, especially if Blake continues to play.

[86WARD]

They will. I feel like they will beat the Broncos and lay an egg against the Ravens or Browns.

[fansince'76]

...when the Steelers played against a very good QB (Wilson) the Steelers have given 39 points.

They got 19 points off turnovers. And we still had a chance to win that game late.

[polamalubeast]

They got 19 points off turnovers. And we still had a chance to win that game late.


Wilson had 345 yards on only 30 pass attempts in this game but yes the steelers had still had the chance to win this game.With a healthy Ben and a average pass defense,the Steelers would be at least 11-2.

[Edman]

Manziel has had 375 yards against us,yesterday Mccarron has had 282 yards and when the Steelers played against a very good QB (Wilson) the Steelers have given 39 points.

The points given up by the Steelers the past four weeks.

9, 39*, 10, 20.

*-19 Points off of Pittsburgh Turnovers (4).

Is the Defense great? No. It could be better, but with this offense, it's more than good enough to help this team win. Because the Offense has been so good in games, teams have been forced to pass to catch up, or salvage, which blows up the passing statistics against the Defense.

Now if you were talking about Antwon Blake, then yes. The dude sucks.

[Craic]

I do not want to be negative, but the pass defense is 31th in yards allowed

Manziel has had 375 yards against us,yesterday Mccarron has had 282 yards and when the Steelers played against a very good QB (Wilson) the Steelers have given 39 points.

At least the red zone defense is great for the most part but I fear that this pass defense cost us another game, especially if Blake continues to play.

Yards allowed is the worst stat for gauging a defense, because it means absolutely nothing in the final scheme. I already posted in another thread how many places this defense is in the top 10 or top 15, places that legitimately affect the outcome of the game. For instance (before yesterday)

Average points scored per drive - Steelers are 12th best with 1.74

Turnovers ending opposing drives - Steelers are 5th best with 14.6 percent

Drives ending with opposition scoring - Steelers are 13th best at 32.5 percent

total points per game allowed - Steelers are 11th with 20.

Interceptions - Steelers are tied for 6th best with 14

Interceptions returned for TDs - Steelers tied at 8th best with 2


I'll take this defense over any defense of the last few years with the exception of 2008. Starting from that SB and working forward, the D would inevitably give up a bad TD at the end of the game to lose it. This year, it feels more like the defense is going to intercept the ball or cause a fumble or tighten up in the redzone and then get a couple sacks to march the team backwards to secure a victory.

[Mojouw]

The pass yards against is going to be bit skewed upwards because in every game Ben has played in, the other team has been in "shootout" mode.

My take aways from that are the following:
1. The run defense likely isn't as good as it looks on paper, no one has time to run since they are trying to score points.
2. The pass defense, while bad, likely isn't as bad as it looks on paper, since everyone is trying to go explosive play for explosive play.

3. This defense is still bad enough to break your heart in a playoff game.

[Craic]

3. This defense is still bad enough to break your heart in a playoff game.

Maybe, but it's also good enough to pull a victory from defeat with a turnover, or stopping late drives, or at least keeping them to field goals and allowing the offense to put up more points.

I do get what you're saying, however. If we end up laying a very talented team through the air, we could be in trouble. Of course, that's true for any team.

[steelreserve]

Basically, without Blake, the secondary could be better, but meets the minimum requirements. With Blake, it is a constant liability, and and halfway decent offense will exploit that matchup all day. Allen is also struggling and IMO playing no better than mid-low backup level.

What's baffling to me is that there are readily available replacements for both, who have done well when called upon.

I'll tell you a story that sums up my thoughts well. When I was at a kid, one time I was at a baseball game and the batter got hit by a pitch that probably had some "intent" to it. There was a lot of yelling and finger-pointing at the pitcher, but eventually the guy went to first base without fighting. Then on the next pitch, he stole second base. Then just before the next pitch, the batter charged the pitcher from second base, so he was coming from directly behind. EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE WHOLE STADIUM COULD SEE THE PITCHER WAS ABOUT TO GET HIS SHIT RUINED, EXCEPT FOR THE PITCHER HIMSELF. The fans, the new batter, outfielders, the infielders, the catcher, the coaches and umpires, the mascot, the guy in the on-deck circle - everyone. Tomlin is the pitcher.

[lipps83]

You can't count the Browns game though, they only gave up 9 points to the most anemic offense in the NFL. The prevent defense against the Browns worked to perfection according to some.....it wasn't because it was the Browns though.

9 points in a career day passing for Manziel, defense is great. 39 points and a career day passing for Wilson, defense is atrocious. One of these offenses is not like the other...

People want their cake and to eat it as well.

[steelreserve]

You can't count the Browns game though, they only gave up 9 points to the most anemic offense in the NFL. The prevent defense against the Browns worked to perfection according to some.....it wasn't because it was the Browns though.

9 points in a career day passing for Manziel, defense is great. 39 points and a career day passing for Wilson, defense is atrocious. One of these offenses is not like the other...

People want their cake and to eat it as well.


In the Browns game, we still played shitty pass defense and the Browns bailed us out by shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly. Three trips inside the 10 and three total points to show for it. Good teams turn those into touchdowns more often than not, which is what happened in the Seattle game and the New England game. The one thing that was consistent was that we did not play good pass defense.

[lipps83]

In the Browns game, we still played shitty pass defense and the Browns bailed us out by shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly. Three trips inside the 10 and three total points to show for it. Good teams turn those into touchdowns more often than not, which is what happened in the Seattle game and the New England game. The one thing that was consistent was that we did not play good pass defense.

Yeah, but some around here gave the defense kudos for the Browns stopping themselves.

The Browns defense has trouble finding the endzone even with a military escort.

[fansince'76]

Yeah, but some around here gave the defense kudos for the Browns stopping themselves.

And some people give the overrated Seahawks way too much credit after we basically gifted them almost half their points off of turnovers.

Speaking of which, maybe Blake wouldn't be so bad if he was allowed to knock the guy he's covering down about 20 yards downfield and then pick the pass that was intended for him off. But the unfortunate reality is that if he pulled half the shit Sherman did there'd be flags all over the field. :coffee:

[polamalubeast]

Yards allowed is the worst stat for gauging a defense, because it means absolutely nothing in the final scheme. I already posted in another thread how many places this defense is in the top 10 or top 15, places that legitimately affect the outcome of the game. For instance (before yesterday)

Average points scored per drive - Steelers are 12th best with 1.74

Turnovers ending opposing drives - Steelers are 5th best with 14.6 percent

Drives ending with opposition scoring - Steelers are 13th best at 32.5 percent

total points per game allowed - Steelers are 11th with 20.

Interceptions - Steelers are tied for 6th best with 14

Interceptions returned for TDs - Steelers tied at 8th best with 2


I'll take this defense over any defense of the last few years with the exception of 2008. Starting from that SB and working forward, the D would inevitably give up a bad TD at the end of the game to lose it. This year, it feels more like the defense is going to intercept the ball or cause a fumble or tighten up in the redzone and then get a couple sacks to march the team backwards to secure a victory.



You are right than yards are overrated...Maybe than it was a overreaction of my part when I see this stats(31th against the pass) this morning.


But they were awful in 3rd down and long in Seattle.....

[lipps83]

And some people give the overrated Seahawks way too much credit after we basically gifted them almost half their points off of turnovers.

Speaking of which, maybe Blake wouldn't be so bad if he was allowed to knock the guy he's covering down about 20 yards downfield and then pick the pass that was intended for him off. But the unfortunate reality is that if he pulled half the shit Sherman did there'd be flags all over the field. :coffee:

Oh, you are absolutely right they are overrated.

They have only averaged 34.7 ppg over their last 5 games. The Steelers make them look pathetic in comparison averaging an out-of-this-world 35.4 ppg over the last 5 games.

Who are the Seahawks trying to fool scoring all those point?

[steelreserve]

Yeah, but some around here gave the defense kudos for the Browns stopping themselves.

The Browns defense has trouble finding the endzone even with a military escort.


Well, not me, anyway.

I mean, there are times when the defense has legitimately made a big play in the red zone to stop a drive, or stopped an opponent when it really needed to - but that has been so up-and-down that it looks a lot like the normal distribution of lucky breaks vs. unlucky breaks. That's basically the way they are this season. No, we're not going to fix it overnight, but we can probably improve it about 20% and eliminate some of the erratic play if we were to utilize Boykin and Golden more often.

One guy I have heard next to nothing about is Doran Grant. We put him on the active roster and he was promising in preseason, but I don't think I've seen him in a real game even once. Again, I don't think he's going to cure all our issues overnight, but if the question is "If not Blake, then who?" and they're still afraid of using Boykin 100% of the time ... well, Grant is another guy who couldn't possibly be worse than Blake.

[fansince'76]

Oh, you are absolutely right they are overrated.

They have only averaged 34.7 ppg over their last 5 games. The Steelers make them look pathetic in comparison averaging an out-of-this-world 35.4 ppg over the last 5 games.

Who are the Seahawks trying to fool scoring all those point?

Their own fans were calling Wilson an overrated game manager a month ago. Just saying...

[polamalubeast]

The steelers were the second best in the Red Zone on defense(Pts/RZ) before the game of Yesterday!

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsdef

[lipps83]

Well, not me, anyway.

I mean, there are times when the defense has legitimately made a big play in the red zone to stop a drive, or stopped an opponent when it really needed to - but that has been so up-and-down that it looks a lot like the normal distribution of lucky breaks vs. unlucky breaks. That's basically the way they are this season. No, we're not going to fix it overnight, but we can probably improve it about 20% and eliminate some of the erratic play if we were to utilize Boykin and Golden more often.

One guy I have heard next to nothing about is Doran Grant. We put him on the active roster and he was promising in preseason, but I don't think I've seen him in a real game even once. Again, I don't think he's going to cure all our issues overnight, but if the question is "If not Blake, then who?" and they're still afraid of using Boykin 100% of the time ... well, Grant is another guy who couldn't possibly be worse than Blake.

They are light years ahead of where they were with Lebeau around. Butler has brought the aggressiveness back that has been sorely lacking for a long time.

The aggressiveness of the front 7 masks a lot of the issues with the pass defense. The pass defense is complete garbage through and through. Carnell Lake should be given his walking papers. He has not improved a thing in his tenure. Should have been a great coach as he did know all of the backfield positions having played all of them in his career. Great players don't always make great coaches though.

[fansince'76]

They are light years ahead of where they were with Lebeau around. Butler has brought the aggressiveness back that has been sorely lacking for a long time.

The aggressiveness of the front 7 masks a lot of the issues with the pass defense. The pass defense is complete garbage through and through. Carnell Lake should be given his walking papers. He has not improved a thing in his tenure. Should have been a great coach as he did know all of the backfield positions having played all of them in his career. Great players don't always make great coaches though.

Agreed.

[lipps83]

Their own fans were calling Wilson an overrated game manager a month ago. Just saying...

Because they are fans that want to win ball games and the QB is usually first scapegoat? It's a good thing fans don't run teams.

Ben was called the same thing for quite a few years by Pittsburgh fans. How soon people forget....

[fansince'76]

Because they are fans that want to win ball games and the QB is usually first scapegoat? It's a good thing fans don't run teams.

Ben was called the same thing for quite a few years by Pittsburgh fans. How soon people forget....

Trust me, I haven't forgotten any of it. Hell, Ben STILL gets criticized.

[lipps83]

Trust me, I haven't forgotten any of it. Hell, Ben STILL gets criticized.

When things go great he is the best QB in the world. When he throws a pick he is a big dummy that never should have thrown that ball. No credit goes to great defensive plays to intercept the pass. The opposing defense always sucks and it is the ineptitude of the offense that causes turnovers.

I would not want to be a QB.

[steelreserve]

They are light years ahead of where they were with Lebeau around. Butler has brought the aggressiveness back that has been sorely lacking for a long time.

The aggressiveness of the front 7 masks a lot of the issues with the pass defense. The pass defense is complete garbage through and through. Carnell Lake should be given his walking papers. He has not improved a thing in his tenure. Should have been a great coach as he did know all of the backfield positions having played all of them in his career. Great players don't always make great coaches though.


You hit that right on the head.

Well, 5 or 6 out of the front 7 mask some of the issues with the secondary. We still need a nose tackle, then the aggressiveness would be better than just a cover-up job; we'd be REALLY fucking up the offense.

And yeah, better DBs is kind of the key to the whole thing. I'm a big believer in player development being the key to success, and there's been precious little of that under Lake. Look at the night-and-day difference Munchak made with the offensive line. If you had a DB coach like that, a lot of these guys we draft, mid-round guys like C. Allen or S. Thomas, would turn out to at least be average players, and others would become serviceable backups. A good coach knows how to eliminate your one or two fatal flaws and get rid of the wild inconsistency. Most of our guys are the same as they were 3 or 4 years ago, if not worse.

It's easy to say "well, we just have a lack of talent in the defensive backfield," but at this level, most players have enough talent for you to do something with. If EVERY player you bring in just can't cut it at all, then you know what, maybe it's time to start pointing the finger at yourself.

Unfortunately, that's nothing we can address this season, but god damn, we'd better be looking in the offseason. I realize there are a limited number of position gurus like Munchak out there, but there are varying degrees of it. Joey Porter seems to be having somewhat of a positive effect on the linebackers - even that would be an improvement.

[cold-hard-steel]

I actually think i have witnessed our pass defense improving as the season meanders along.The best pass defense in my book comes from sacking the QB. We ain't there yet,but if you all think we aren't improving,what team are you watching? I have said so many times i can't remember now , how the pressure on the QB has a direct impact on your defensive backs position to break down. Are they top tier ? Not yet anyway.Are they improving along with their new defensive co-ordinator? I think yes.and maybe some of you all are watching a different team than i. Just me i guess.

[cold-hard-steel]

Just to follow up most forget we are dealing with injuries in our secondary. I think Senquez could be on the field right now.But he is , oh,thats right he is out for the year. Doran is well , i guess he ain't here just yet. Art , i remember Art saying we need to start bringing our young players along more quickly. Chance always has it's way.

[86WARD]

The young players aren't going to fix this anytime soon in the next couple seasons. This back end of the defense has to be fixed through free agency or it will stay the sieve that it is...

[polamalubeast]

676552272936083457

[katmandu]

Now if you were talking about Antwon Blake, then yes. The dude sucks.Steelers really need to find away to get him off playing Corner! He'd be a much better Safety.

[ALLD]

It's offensive.