In Defense of The Steelers Tactics

[Mojouw]

So, I won't attempt to defend the line-up decisions at either Safety or Cornerback - since I have already stated that I am fully behind replacing Blake and Allen in the line-up with almost anyone else, even hotdog vendors. I also acknowledge that this is a reversal of my earlier position. So now that that is out of the way...Let's talk about other more interesting and less frustrating things.

1. I support the Steelers use rates of their outside linebackers. I agree with the decision to put Dupree on the field as much as possible. His athleticism always gives him a chance of making a play and balances out his inexperience and "rookie mistakes". Like Alex has mentioned on Steelers Depot, if he doesn't start to bend around the edge, he will always get run up and past the QB - but he has the ability to make the adjustment. I hate to say it, but Harrison is no longer a pass rusher to be consistently feared. He can still hold the edge better than most, he can rush, but is a beat slower and his sack #'s are down from even last season. Jarvis Jones needs to play. I do not agree with the assertion that he is not even back-up good. Jones is certainly an adequate back-up talent. He may be more than that. Many contend that his pass rush #'s would be better with more opportunities as he is being asked to go into coverage often (likely due to repeated absences by Shazier since we all know Williams can't cover much combined with Dupree inexperience). Now, I think my stance on Jarvis has been clear and consistent - I think he was a wasted first round pick. That being said, I think the Steelers should and could continue to employ him as part of an improving defense for a season or two, provided than can sign him for about 2-3 million per. Gives them time to develop Chick-filet and find another prospect.

2. The deep ball. Oh, goodness, does this cause controversy and much hand wringing among the faithful. Here is an ESPN piece that is basically my viewpoint as well - http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/190296/steelers-ultimate-equalizer-launching-deep-balls-without-a-care. Basically, the deep ball works because the Steelers are willing to put it up from any spot on the field and in any game situation. I get that chucking it down the field on 3-5 and missing can be frustrating, but that helps to set up the success of all those other deep throws that do succeed. One can not happen without the other. I, personally, like and support the notion that the Steelers are now the "mad bombers" of the league. If you have a fleet of WRs whose best skillset is going deep, a QB that throws the deep ball extremely well - don't sit on that. I kinda want to see a Cards-Steelers shoot-out where each team just winds it up every offensive series.

3. I like the Steelers aggressive approach to game flow in general. Hear me out. I think it actually protects their suspect defense. Think about the Cleveland game. They get up multiple scores early thanks to deep passes and aggressive use of the 2 point conversion. This forces Cleveland to be a one dimensional offense. The Steelers still allowed plenty of yards, but stiffened in the red zone and won going away. In most of their wins, that is what they have been able to do. Floor it on offense and get up early. Play the pass on defense and hope for a mistake that you can convert in to a turnover. Score on the extra possession. Rinse. Repeat. I know that many come down hard on Tomlin and company for their in game decisions or seeming lack thereof, but whatever brain trust came up with the aggressive 2 point strategy is a genius. Why more teams are not doing it, I will never know. Coupled with that, I like all the 4th down attempts and wacky fakes. The recent fake FG didn't work, but a fake PAT worked earlier in the year. I think that any aggressive calls you can make to get points early, helps protect the defense from itself later in the game. It is a slightly counter-intuitive strategy and goes well against traditional conservative NFL philosophies, but is the best (in my opinion) strategy to employ with a flawed team like the Steelers. Finally, I applaud the coaching staff for having the stones to attempt to coach to win and not the traditional coach not to lose that we so often see around the league (punts in odd situations, never going for it except in "acceptable" situations, etc).

4. This one is not quite solely Steelers related, but something I will never understand. Why doe teams punt in that "no mans land" between their opponents 40 and 30 yard line? Think about it for a second. Almost always that punt is rolling into the endzone. So you are taking away a chance for your offense to convert on 4th down to gain 10-20 yards in field position? Ridiculous. IF I was in charge, my team would never punt inside 45 yards. I suspect it would totally change offensive play calling as well. 3rd and 8, you have two plays to make it instead of one.

Anyways, tired of arguing about scarecrows, hippofarts, and the turnstiles that currently play CB for the Steelers.

[Rotorhead]

I think once JJ can set the edge like JH, he will get the majority of reps, I also think not playing Dupree earlier this year had more to do with Tuitt being injured and Cam Thomas playing as well as Shazier being out. Moats was better at setting the edge and knowing the assignments and with the Cam in there not doing anything, they needed the extra knowledge to help in the run game (remember we were gashed by the run those game which resulted in 1 or 2 losses). Once Tuitt returned, our run def was much improved and it allowed us to get Dupree in there for more reps and increase his learning curve. Our front 7 are solid to great even with the rotations (JJ - JH, Spence - Williams - Shazier, Moats - Dupree). I honestly feel we are one top tier corner away from a top 10 defense, if we can shore that up for next year, we will be the team to beat.

[Mojouw]

I think once JJ can set the edge like JH, he will get the majority of reps, I also think not playing Dupree earlier this year had more to do with Tuitt being injured and Cam Thomas playing as well as Shazier being out. Moats was better at setting the edge and knowing the assignments and with the Cam in there not doing anything, they needed the extra knowledge to help in the run game (remember we were gashed by the run those game which resulted in 1 or 2 losses). Once Tuitt returned, our run def was much improved and it allowed us to get Dupree in there for more reps and increase his learning curve. Our front 7 are solid to great even with the rotations (JJ - JH, Spence - Williams - Shazier, Moats - Dupree). I honestly feel we are one top tier corner away from a top 10 defense, if we can shore that up for next year, we will be the team to beat.

Yup. It doesn't even have to be a Revis or Sherman level CB, just Ike Taylor 2.0 and the defense is good to go.

Also, remember how the coaching staff made the team mentally weak? Least penalized team in the league - http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/nfl-pittsburgh-steelers-news/2015/12/4/9846848/the-pittsburgh-steelers-are-the-least-penalized-team-in-nfl

[zoneblitzerII]

The Steelers don't have a QB that throws the deep ball extremely well. Nothing could be further from the truth. As a matter of fact, the deep ball has ALWAYS been on of Ben's least reliable throws. The problem? He throws it late and often puts way too much air under it forcing the receiver to stop and wait for it.

[Mojouw]

The Steelers don't have a QB that throws the deep ball extremely well. Nothing could be further from the truth. As a matter of fact, the deep ball has ALWAYS been on of Ben's least reliable throws. The problem? He throws it late and often puts way too much air under it forcing the receiver to stop and wait for it.

Well, that is your opinion. But any objective analysis done by anyone ever using numbers and game stats and stuff says that Ben is one of the best deep passers in the league.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Well, that is your opinion. But any objective analysis done by anyone ever using numbers and game stats and stuff says that Ben is one of the best deep passers in the league.

if only Ben were a better leader and studied more film like Peyton...:stirthepot:

[slippy]

i like youre glass half full take, but im not taking the ball out of ben's hands unless he's hurt. please stop the trick plays, theyre for teams that dont have a legit QB.

and for whatever reason, many of his deep balls are underthrown. including his first one in miami in 2004.

[zulater]

Well, that is your opinion. But any objective analysis done by anyone ever using numbers and game stats and stuff says that Ben is one of the best deep passers in the league.

His is an uniformed opinion hardened by a personal animosity towards Ben. Or I could just say he's an effing idiot! :doh: Please stop quoting the moron, it ruins the effect of having him on ignore. :lol:

[zulater]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/12/02/pro-top-10-nfl-quarterbacks-entering-week-13/On top of their games, few weaknesses
1. Carson Palmer, Arizona Cardinals, 98.6

Even with the Cardinals just sneaking past an overmatched 49ers team, Palmer continued his excellent stretch of play with a number of impressive throws, many of which should have been touchdowns. A fade thrown right on the hands of Larry Fitzgerald was dropped; another perfectly tossed ball on a double-move saw John Brown accidentally step out of bounds. Regardless of missed opportunities, Palmer capped the day with a pinpoint, over-the-shoulder throw to J.J. Nelson that set up his game-winning touchdown scramble. Looking beyond the boxscore, it was another strong display from the 35-year-old.

2. Tom Brady, New England Patriots, 98.3

With nearly all of their top playmakers injured, the New England passing game had a different look on the road against Denver. Brady took many more low-percentage downfield throws than he’s used to, and only hit on one of his seven deep attempts—though the completion went for a 63-yard touchdown on a wheel-route to running back Brandon Bolden. With documented issues hurting the offensive line, Brady has been pressured on 47.1 percent of his dropbacks the last two weeks, a huge increase from the 31 percent he faced in the first nine games of the season. Both the deep passing attack and pressure from opposing defensive fronts will be something to monitor in December for Brady and the Patriots.

3. Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers, 96.9

In one of the best games of the weekend, Roethlisberger was firing accurate passes all over the field against the Seahawks, and he continues to rival Palmer as perhaps the best downfield thrower of the 2015 season. He graded at +6.2 on passes thrown at least 10 yards in the air, on his way to throwing for 456 yards on 55 attempts. When Roethlisberger is healthy, and when wide receivers Antonio Brown, Martavis Bryant, and Markus Wheaton are getting open, Pittsburgh’s passing game is perhaps the most dynamic in the league.

[Hawkman]

The Steelers don't have a QB that throws the deep ball extremely well. Nothing could be further from the truth. As a matter of fact, the deep ball has ALWAYS been on of Ben's least reliable throws. The problem? He throws it late and often puts way too much air under it forcing the receiver to stop and wait for it.

WHAT???:noidea:

[zoneblitzerII]

Well, that is your opinion. But any objective analysis done by anyone ever using numbers and game stats and stuff says that Ben is one of the best deep passers in the league.
No it's based on analytical observation of his passes. And on the real long bombs, he struggles. He has consistently thrown late and short for nearly all his career. And he would be the first to admit it. Stats don't tell the story. Tape does. I'd like to see Ben hit routes more in the 20 to 30 yard range. The real long ones are too hard to hit. I'd rather have them play the percentages to move the sticks to protect the defense and keep drives alive.

[Mojouw]

No it's based on analytical observation of his passes. And on the real long bombs, he struggles. He has consistently thrown late and short for nearly all his career. And he would be the first to admit it. Stats don't tell the story. Tape does. I'd like to see Ben hit routes more in the 20 to 30 yard range. The real long ones are too hard to hit. I'd rather have them play the percentages to move the sticks to protect the defense and keep drives alive.

DOesn't 20-30 yards count as "deep"? I mean I'm not certain that anyone was talking about 50+ yard heaves. Usually 0-10 yards is short passing; 10-20 is intermediate, and 20+ is "deep" - or am I off base? Wouldn't be the first time.

As to the late and short, I quibble with that a bit anyways. I think Wallace and Bryant would have to slow up and wait for almost anyone in the NFL after about 30 yards.

[slippy]

i was thinking of ben's deep heaves as being underthrown about half the time.

between twenty and thirty yards he's money.

- - - Updated - - -

also, i've never heard a theory why the coffin corner kick disappeared, just announcers lamenting that it had.

[katmandu]

The Steelers don't have a QB that throws the deep ball extremely well. Nothing could be further from the truth. As a matter of fact, the deep ball has ALWAYS been on of Ben's least reliable throws. The problem? He throws it late and often puts way too much air under it forcing the receiver to stop and wait for it.Surely you jest !

[Dissolv]

"Is the deep ball working?"
Stats answer: "Yes, one of the best results in the NFL"
Some guy's opinion "But he's doing it all wrong!"


Yeah....what are you going to go with?


Dissolv

[zoneblitzerII]

DOesn't 20-30 yards count as "deep"? I mean I'm not certain that anyone was talking about 50+ yard heaves. Usually 0-10 yards is short passing; 10-20 is intermediate, and 20+ is "deep" - or am I off base? Wouldn't be the first time.

As to the late and short, I quibble with that a bit anyways. I think Wallace and Bryant would have to slow up and wait for almost anyone in the NFL after about 30 yards.

I've seen far too many 45 yard plus heaves from this offense. That to me is the deep ball. Ben does well in what I would consider the intermediate range of 20-30 yards. In fact, his receivers have let him down far too many times this season with drops on very catchable balls. When we're talking heaves, as they're prone to do on third and short, he struggles and always has. He missed on a couple last week. But they are bloody hard throws to make. They require perfect timing, trajectory and arm strength. Few can make them, perfectly. Ben has in the past but it's not his strength as a QB. I'd be curious to see an NFL top ten on this. Bradshaw would be right up there as one of the all-time greats. He always had enough arm to lead the receiver so that they would catch it in stride.

[Mojouw]

No matter how you slice it, every analysis that I can get my hands on, concludes that deep passes are one of Roethlisberger's better skills as a passer.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2491902-aaron-rodgers-big-ben-orjay-cutler-ranking-the-nfls-best-deep-passers

I think classifying 40+ yards as "Deep" and everything else as less than that is a bit too extreme. There were only 351 passes of 40 yards or longer attempted by ALL teams in ALL of the 2014 season!

I will let the articles conclusions speak for themselves:

"1. Aaron Rodgers: Rodgers blew the field away. 2. Ben Roethlisberger: Big Ben has more attempts in the past two seasons than any other quarterback, and his rate stats may suffer as a result. He tries to fire more deep passes into tight windows than others because he can. That shouldn't be held against him."

As to the Blonde Bomber and Big Ben; I think you got it right.

Bradshaw's (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTe00.htm) Yards per Attempt and Yards per completion say that he was throwing deeper per pass than Ben is (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm#stats::none). Scrolling through the two pages, the advanced passing stats chart (tries to adjust for era and a few other things) has the two pretty even - maybe a slight edge to Roethlisberger. The funniest part, is that Bradshaw and Roethlisberger are two of the highest similarity scores for one another.

Bottom line - they both threw deep, alot. Bradshaw seems to complete a little bit less passes, but turned a higher percentage of his passes into touchdowns. Also, no one Bradshaw ever threw to was as fast as the deep threats Ben has been and is throwing to.

[fansince'76]

"Can't throw the deep ball." LOL

[Shoes]

"Can't throw the deep ball." LOL

:chuckle:

[Craic]

The problem's called irrational primacy effect.

Early in Ben's career, and probably up to 2008 or so, he didn't have a very good long ball. It was always too flat so the receiver didn't have a chance to make a play on the ball. Ben changed that after his 4-game suspension when he worked with a QB coach on his mechanics. Since then, he's ranged anywhere from average to amazing, while probably averaging out at very good.

The problem is people remember the first truth they learned about Ben, and don't want to give it up . . . irrational primacy effect.

[fansince'76]

The problem's called irrational primacy effect.

Early in Ben's career, and probably up to 2008 or so, he didn't have a very good long ball. It was always too flat so the receiver didn't have a chance to make a play on the ball. Ben changed that after his 4-game suspension when he worked with a QB coach on his mechanics. Since then, he's ranged anywhere from average to amazing, while probably averaging out at very good.

The problem is people remember the first truth they learned about Ben, and don't want to give it up . . . irrational primacy effect.

http://p7.storage.canalblog.com/70/70/466416/90192530_o.jpg

:chuckle:

[Psycho Ward 86]

im a little on the fence on this one. Ben definitely throws some gems downfield, but he definitely throws some deep balls that kind of make you shake your head that other elite QB's never would. Deep balls that led to easy interceptions and virtually no chance of the receiver coming down with it against the patriots, rams, and bengals come to mind. Ben's deep ball accuracy could be BETTER. We can all agree on that no?

[Mojouw]

Ben is Favre 2.0 on the deep ball. Trusts his arm and instincts so much that he makes multiple throws that he never should have even thought about, let alone actually thrown. However, there are several of those throws that work out amazing. Live by the sword; die by the sword.

Favre - 508 TDs and 336 INTS.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Ben is Favre 2.0 on the deep ball. Trusts his arm and instincts so much that he makes multiple throws that he never should have even thought about, let alone actually thrown. However, there are several of those throws that work out amazing. Live by the sword; die by the sword.

Favre - 508 TDs and 336 INTS.

the game has changed since the peak Favre years. id rather that Ben plays a cleaned up efficient game like last season where there was a stronger mixture of short intermediate and deep passes. although i gotta say, is it just me, or would it be nice to see martavis actually lay out for some of the overthrows Ben launches here and there? ive seen him jog it out before the ball arrives a few too many times for my liking

[86WARD]

To address the long ball...the coverage on TE first one on third and short yesterday warranted the shot. Ben would've been stupid not to take it. One guy over the top and the CBs rolled down...he should take that shot every time. I can't fault him for that.

Last night Ben was about as accurate on his throws as I have ever seen him. He was ridiculous. If not for those silly running plays, Ben would've easily thrown for 500...again.

For every "bad" play, Ben makes 5 good ones. I'll take that every day. You just have to hope that all the bad plays don't come in a bunch...which *knock on wood* they usually don't.

[Mojouw]

A bit off topic, but thought I would leave this here: http://deadspin.com/what-was-bill-belichick-thinking-1746609199

Just a reminder that if we all paid as much attention to other teams as we did to the Steelers, I suspect that the Steelers staff would start to look a bit "smarter".

And while I can see the point that the constant long balls are not the highest percentage strategy on offense, I only have on thing to say "Just Throw Deep, Baby!"

[zulater]

To address the long ball...the coverage on TE first one on third and short yesterday warranted the shot. Ben would've been stupid not to take it. One guy over the top and the CBs rolled down...he should take that shot every time. I can't fault him for that.

Last night Ben was about as accurate on his throws as I have ever seen him. He was ridiculous. If not for those silly running plays, Ben would've easily thrown for 500...again.

For every "bad" play, Ben makes 5 good ones. I'll take that every day. You just have to hope that all the bad plays don't come in a bunch...which *knock on wood* they usually don't.

Ben was every bit as sharp on deep balls the week before against Seattle. Just because they lost and there were a few drops doesn't mean he wasn't throwing the ball on the dime. A few years ago you could make the argument that Ben wasn't among the league's better deep throwers. But for the past 3 seasons he's been as good as anyone in the league throwing the deep ball. The assertion he's below the line on these plays is ill informed, and observationally absurd.

[Drazo85]

A bit off topic, but thought I would leave this here: http://deadspin.com/what-was-bill-belichick-thinking-1746609199

Just a reminder that if we all paid as much attention to other teams as we did to the Steelers, I suspect that the Steelers staff would start to look a bit "smarter".

And while I can see the point that the constant long balls are not the highest percentage strategy on offense, I only have on thing to say "Just Throw Deep, Baby!"

Forgive me Lord for what i am going to post, but im actually sorry TeeTee is banned right now. I would love to read what he has to say in Bellicheat defense for this blunder.

[86WARD]

Ben was every bit as sharp on deep balls the week before against Seattle. Just because they lost and there were a few drops doesn't mean he wasn't throwing the ball on the dime. A few years ago you could make the argument that Ben wasn't among the league's better deep throwers. But for the past 3 seasons he's been as good as anyone in the league throwing the deep ball. The assertion he's below the line on these plays is ill informed, and observationally absurd.

I can't really understand anyone criticizing Ben to the extent that they do. Like I said, sure he makes a bad play or "holds the ball too long" or takes an unnecessary hit. But for ever bad play, there's many more good ones, for every sack he "takes" or holds the ball too long, he makes a play escaping the pocket more times than not. It's silly. To those criticizing him, what should the Steelers do to replace him? It's silly...

[polamalubeast]

The Steelers are better when they are aggressive, so I like the steelers throw deep more often instead of playing the time of possession.

The Steelers scored 143 points in the last four games and they have had at least 450 yards in each of his games.

[st33lersguy]

Forgive me Lord for what i am going to post, but im actually sorry TeeTee is banned right now. I would love to read what he has to say in Bellicheat defense for this blunder.

All while finding something stupid to complaining about in regards to the Steelers, like why isn't Jordan Todman and Toussaint getting more carries or even why did Tomlin risk injuring AB being on punt returns last night?