No more rings as long as Tomlin is HC

[TeeTee]

Let's face it: It took a perfect storm for him to win one to begin with. He had veteran leadership and the team basically could lead itself.

Now, without that perfect storm, we are doomed to never win another rings as long as Tomlin is head coach. Can it be any more obvious?

Not that Rooneys will make a switch any time soon, but that is the reality, regardless.

Just get used to it, and you will be less disappointed.

Nothing we can do about it.

[steelreserve]

I agree that he's a pretty average coach, but there's enough talent around Ben to give us a dark-horse chance for a few years. If we do win one though, I don't think it'll be BECAUSE of Tomlin, and no, all the people criticizing Tomlin won't need to shut up.

[zulater]

I guess I just hallucinated that the Steelers made the SB in 10?

Yeah I know that's not winning, but your OP doesn;'t even bother to mention that he got the team to two SB's. I think that has quite a bit of relevance. Because imo if the Steelers have a good offseason and have some luck with health the 2016 team could be far more talented than the 10 team ever was. Better right across the board offensively. Obviously defense wont be as good as that team's but the offense could be so damn good that they wont need a great defense next year. Just a good one. And I think that can happen.

Anyway if you're so convinced there's no hope to win another Super Bowl as long as Tomlin's coach why not take a break from the team until he retires or is fired? Don't worry we'll manage to get by without you until that day comes. :wave:

:chuckle:

[Hawkman]

Anyway if you're so convinced there's no hope to win another Super Bowl as long as Tomlin's coach why not take a break from the team until he retires or is fired? Don't worry we'll manage to get by without you until that day comes. :wave:

:chuckle:


:heh::chuckle::rofl2:

[hawaiiansteeler]

I guess I just hallucinated that the Steelers made the SB in 10?

Yeah I know that's not winning, but your OP doesn;'t even bother to mention that he got the team to two SB's. I think that has quite a bit of relevance.

Tomlin was only able to win because of Cowher's players...:stirthepot:

[teegre]

If we do win one though, I don't think it'll be BECAUSE of Tomlin.

Here's what I find interesting. The same exact words were said about Cowher after SuperBowl XL.

(I apologize for turning this into yet another Cowher-Tomlin discussion.)

I vividly remember KillCowher stating that Cowher almost lost XL, because Cowher had gotten into BB's head so badly that BB had a horrible game. Likewise, many said that the team won in spite of Cowher trying to turtle the game away.

I defended Cowher back then, much like how I defend Tomlin now.



What got stuck in my craw was when people mentioned how Cowher had only won because he had superior talent. Uh... what? Isn't the head coach responsible for the talent??? Yes, the in-game coaching is a portion of his responsibility, but the pre-game preparation is huge. Sure, during the games, Cowher liked to turtle... okay. But, he also taught his players how to tackle & such.

Which brings bed me to Tomlin. First, he specifically coached his team on INT returns the week prior to SuperBowl XLIII. No matter whose players they were, Tomlin coached James Harrison's 100-yard return.

More importantly, if you say that the team might win in spite of Tomlin, because he has such good talent (AB, Bell)... just like Cowher, isn't Tomlin responsible for drafting & coaching those players? Shouldn't he get some credit* for another SuperBowl victory???


*(At least as much credit as Cowher got from Ih8Cowher. LOL)

[Edman]

Welp, since we already know the future with Tomlin as head coach, we may as well quit watching.

[Count Steeler]

Tomlin is managing to rebuild a team and not have a losing year. In the salary cap era. Not many others in that group, now is there?

[polamalubeast]

Tomlin is managing to rebuild a team and not have a losing year. In the salary cap era. Not many others in that group, now is there?

Tomlin has had two 8-8 season.....I mean, 8-8 or have a losing season this is the same thing since this is not a winning season!

[zulater]

Tomlin has had two 8-8 season.....I mean, 8-8 or have a losing season this is the same thing since this is not a winning season!

Tell it to a Browns fan.

[polamalubeast]

Tell it to a Browns fan.


The standard of the Steelers are bigger than those of the Browns right now ....

[Hawkman]

Tomlin has had two 8-8 season.....I mean, 8-8 or have a losing season this is the same thing since this is not a winning season!
Tell that to the Browns.

[st33lersguy]

I can't envision Tomlin winning another Super Bowl because 1. He allows too much lethargy on this team, and too many times this has translated to slow starts in games that lead to large deficits that cannot be overcome and 2. He is too stubborn to bench/let go of crappy players that he inexplicably develops an infatuation over, players whose mistakes can cost this team big time.

[tube517]

Here's what I find interesting. The same exact words were said about Cowher after SuperBowl XL.

(I apologize for turning this into yet another Cowher-Tomlin discussion.)

I vividly remember KillCowher stating that Cowher almost lost XL, because Cowher had gotten into BB's head so badly that BB had a horrible game. Likewise, many said that the team won in spite of Cowher trying to turtle the game away.

I defended Cowher back then, much like how I defend Tomlin now.



What got stuck in my craw was when people mentioned how Cowher had only won because he had superior talent. Uh... what? Isn't the head coach responsible for the talent??? Yes, the in-game coaching is a portion of his responsibility, but the pre-game preparation is huge. Sure, during the games, Cowher liked to turtle... okay. But, he also taught his players how to tackle & such.

Which brings bed me to Tomlin. First, he specifically coached his team on INT returns the week prior to SuperBowl XLIII. No matter whose players they were, Tomlin coached James Harrison's 100-yard return.

More importantly, if you say that the team might win in spite of Tomlin, because he has such good talent (AB, Bell)... just like Cowher, isn't Tomlin responsible for drafting & coaching those players? Shouldn't he get some credit* for another SuperBowl victory???


*(At least as much credit as Cowher got from Ih8Cowher. LOL)


I was in a different forum before SF and then SU. Talk about deja vu and all the criticism of Cowher was about the same level. 2003 season was just ballistic.

[fansince'76]

I was in a different forum before SF and then SU. Talk about deja vu and all the criticism of Cowher was about the same level. 2003 season was just ballistic.

I was on the "official" Steelers message board up until 2006 and that's when I went to SF. Where were you at?

[teegre]

I was in a different forum before SF and then SU. Talk about deja vu and all the criticism of Cowher was about the same level. 2003 season was just ballistic.

Were there "dong sacks" on that site? :wink02:


I could at least understand the angst towards Cowher in 2003. What baffled my mind was the nay-saying and derision of the 2004 season; I swear that some Steelers fans were actually happy that the Steelers lost the AFCCG... just so that they could say: "See. I told you that Cowher will never win the big one."

[hawaiiansteeler]

I was on the "official" Steelers message board up until 2006 and that's when I went to SF.

are you referring to the old Trib board?

[fansince'76]

are you referring to the old Trib board?

No, actually, back in the day, steelers.com used to have a forum.

[Hawkman]

No, actually, back in the day, steelers.com used to have a forum.

Ah yes...the OSMB!:chuckle:Fun times on that board.

- - - Updated - - -

Some of us drifted off, because the Mods were killing any thread that "went astray". DrunkHillbilly was my favorite poster.

[steelreserve]

What got stuck in my craw was when people mentioned how Cowher had only won because he had superior talent. Uh... what? Isn't the head coach responsible for the talent??? Yes, the in-game coaching is a portion of his responsibility, but the pre-game preparation is huge. Sure, during the games, Cowher liked to turtle... okay. But, he also taught his players how to tackle & such.

Which brings bed me to Tomlin. First, he specifically coached his team on INT returns the week prior to SuperBowl XLIII. No matter whose players they were, Tomlin coached James Harrison's 100-yard return.

More importantly, if you say that the team might win in spite of Tomlin, because he has such good talent (AB, Bell)... just like Cowher, isn't Tomlin responsible for drafting & coaching those players? Shouldn't he get some credit* for another SuperBowl victory???


*(At least as much credit as Cowher got from Ih8Cowher. LOL)


The way I see it is ... the roster that Cowher built was, with the glaring exception of a star QB, way more solid top-to-bottom, and I had a lot less doubts about the way decisions were being made and the franchise was being run overall.

A huge, HUGE part of that is player development. Fine, we can assume for the sake of argument that Cowher and Tomlin were equally lucky/skilled in hitting it big with the occasional diamond in the rough like AB or Greg Lloyd. You can't just coach those kinds of players into existence. But, your middle-of-the-roster players all tended to be decent, and more importantly, they got better with time.

You look at the kinds of players that improve on today's team, they're Munchak's linemen, and the players who already had high football smarts and a ridiculous work ethic on their own. We keep drafting guys with "a ton of raw talent but needs some coaching," and guess what? They never develop. That turns into Jarvis Jones, and would've been Gilbert too if not for Munchak. Gilbert is a perfect example of the difference that good coaching can make.

Then the guys you get in the fourth round and lower - not many superstars, but some of them can be contributors if they get some direction (think Shamarko Thomas, T. Gibson, C. Allen, A. Shipley) ... how many of those have we lost in the meantime? That's why we have such a problem with depth. There was a time when "next man up" meant you had an average or better player waiting behind the starter most of the time. Now it's probably a street free agent, or at best a journeyman with one or more fatal flaws. Good rafting, bad drafting, whatever; the player development - the ability to turn average players into solid ones and make some of your low-round guys into at least contributors - is just killing us. I don't want to compare Cowher with Tomlin anymore either, but that's a thing that Tomlin does not do well, and Cowher just happens to be the best example at hand of ... the opposite of that.

As for rebuilding the roster and not having a losing record ... ok, glass half full. We're also rebuilding a roster without really having a winning record, glass half empty. Our QB has probably been making a minimum 4-game difference per season singlehandedly. You have a top-5 QB, you SHOULD be at least making the wild card more often than not, no matter what else is going on with your roster. Roethlisberger is not Jay Cutler. Anyway. Sure, we could probably do worse than Tomlin, but what is there to be excited about with average? I'm not buying it.

[teegre]

The way I see it is ... the roster that Cowher built was, with the glaring exception of a star QB, way more solid top-to-bottom, and I had a lot less doubts about the way decisions were being made and the franchise was being run overall.

A huge, HUGE part of that is player development. Fine, we can assume for the sake of argument that Cowher and Tomlin were equally lucky/skilled in hitting it big with the occasional diamond in the rough like AB or Greg Lloyd. You can't just coach those kinds of players into existence. But, your middle-of-the-roster players all tended to be decent, and more importantly, they got better with time.

You look at the kinds of players that improve on today's team, they're Munchak's linemen, and the players who already had high football smarts and a ridiculous work ethic on their own. We keep drafting guys with "a ton of raw talent but needs some coaching," and guess what? They never develop. That turns into Jarvis Jones, and would've been Gilbert too if not for Munchak. Gilbert is a perfect example of the difference that good coaching can make.

Then the guys you get in the fourth round and lower - not many superstars, but some of them can be contributors if they get some direction (think Shamarko Thomas, T. Gibson, C. Allen, A. Shipley) ... how many of those have we lost in the meantime? That's why we have such a problem with depth. There was a time when "next man up" meant you had an average or better player waiting behind the starter most of the time. Now it's probably a street free agent, or at best a journeyman with one or more fatal flaws. Good rafting, bad drafting, whatever; the player development - the ability to turn average players into solid ones and make some of your low-round guys into at least contributors - is just killing us. I don't want to compare Cowher with Tomlin anymore either, but that's a thing that Tomlin does not do well, and Cowher just happens to be the best example at hand of ... the opposite of that.

As for rebuilding the roster and not having a losing record ... ok, glass half full. We're also rebuilding a roster without really having a winning record, glass half empty. Our QB has probably been making a minimum 4-game difference per season singlehandedly. You have a top-5 QB, you SHOULD be at least making the wild card more often than not, no matter what else is going on with your roster. Roethlisberger is not Jay Cutler. Anyway. Sure, we could probably do worse than Tomlin, but what is there to be excited about with average? I'm not buying it.

Speaking of Greg Lloyd, Cowher inherited a plethora of talent: Dermontti Dawson (HOF), Rod Woodson (HOF), Greg Lloyd, Carnell Lake, Eric Green, Hardy Nickerson, Gerald Williams, Jerol Williams, Thomas Everett, Merril Hoge, Barry Foster... After about six years, as those players retired/moved on, the Steelers started to rebuild. Similarly, after Troy, Hines, et al. retired/moved on, another rebuilding process began. IMO 1998-2000 were far rougher than the past three seasons.

As far as depth goes, in the late 90s/early 2000s, there was one team running a 3-4 defense: the Steelers. Ergo, it was a lot easier to draft OLBs in the later rounds (because no one else was targeting "tweeners"). Joey Porter would not have lasted until the end of R3; he would have been a top 20 pick in the 2015 draft.

Look at the Cowher drafts carefully. For every Shamarko Thomas, there is a Scott Shields. For every Thad Gibson, there is a Steven Conley. For every AQ Shipley, there is a Jamain Stephens. Et cetera.

Regardless of of drafting luck an/or dynamics, was the depth really that good? People moan about Jarvis Jones "starting only because he was a first round pick", but Chad Scott started for far too long, because they couldn't draft a CB to save their lives. Speaking of CBs, Deshea Townsend is the best example of the "grass being greener". From 2002-2005, he was picked on by fans so much, it makes it seem like the harassment that William Gay has undergone is child's play. My point is: I think that some of us are looking back at those rosters through rose colored glasses, because I remember the lambasting that was occurring about the "lack of depth at CB" during the Cowher years.

In other words, if I replace the name "Tomlin" with the name "Cowher" in many of the recent posts, they would be 100% identical to posts made a dozen years ago.

[Count Steeler]

Tomlin has had two 8-8 season.....I mean, 8-8 or have a losing season this is the same thing since this is not a winning season!

I did not say winning season. I said he has not had a losing season. 8-8, though not great, is not a losing season.

There are more that 2 options, winning, losing, .500. .500 is neither winning nor losing.

[plenewken]

I did not say winning season. I said he has not had a losing season. 8-8, though not great, is not a losing season.

There are more that 2 options, winning, losing, .500. .500 is neither winning nor losing.

8-8 with Cleveland in our Division (and not so long ago with Cincy in it too) IS de-facto a losing season.

[LLT]

8-8 with Cleveland in our Division (and not so long ago with Cincy in it too) IS de-facto a losing season.

8-8 is not a losing season no matter how you paint it. Its a SUCKY season for a fan base that is used to winning...but its not a losing season.

[86WARD]

Id take DeShea, Chad Scott, Dewayne Washington over this secondary every day. Through Colcoughly in there as well.

[tube517]

Were there "dong sacks" on that site? :wink02:


I could at least understand the angst towards Cowher in 2003. What baffled my mind was the nay-saying and derision of the 2004 season; I swear that some Steelers fans were actually happy that the Steelers lost the AFCCG... just so that they could say: "See. I told you that Cowher will never win the big one."

No dong sacks. Although Gildon was pretty much criticized about the same.

Yeah, I kept saying on that board to take the wins (in 2004) however we get them. People just wanted to (over) criticize how we won vs being happy that we won

[teegre]

8-8 with Cleveland in our Division (and not so long ago with Cincy in it too) IS de-facto a losing season.

Cincinnati has made the playoffs 5 of the last 6 years.


(They didn't in 2010, which was a Pittsburgh SuperBowl year... which was a pretty good season.)

[teegre]

Yeah, I kept saying on that board to take the wins (in 2004) however we get them. People just wanted to (over) criticize how we won vs being happy that we won

Exactly!!!

"We only beat Dallas, because Farrior got a lucky fumble."

[Count Steeler]

8-8 with Cleveland in our Division (and not so long ago with Cincy in it too) IS de-facto a losing season.

Win, lose or tie. These are the THREE viable outcomes of any sporting event, (without going into overtime) or sporting season. A tie is neither a win, nor a loss.

An 81-81 record in baseball is a .500 season. Neither a winning nor a losing.
An 8-8 record in football is a .500 season. Neither a winning nor a losing.

You may not be happy with an 8-8 season, but in any context it is not a losing season. You may refer to it as an under-achieving season, a season below expectations, but not a losing season.

[teegre]

Id take DeShea, Chad Scott, Dewayne Washington over this secondary every day. Through Colcoughly in there as well.

This is sort of what I'm talking about. If this was 2003, everyone would be lambasting those guys.

Instead, a dozen years later, they seem great (or, at least, the seem better than they actually were).

[86WARD]

This is sort of what I'm talking about. If this was 2003, everyone would be lambasting those guys.

Instead, a dozen years later, they seem great (or, at least, the seem better than they actually were).

Great.

I never really bashed those guys. Colcoughly...I bashed him a bit but I thought the other guys were decent CBs. Serviceable 2s or 3s.

[fansince'76]

Ah yes...the OSMB!:chuckle:Fun times on that board.

- - - Updated - - -

Some of us drifted off, because the Mods were killing any thread that "went astray". DrunkHillbilly was my favorite poster.

Yep, I remember "HillbillyBiker" as well as "Wyoming Cowgirl Barbie" (who was supposedly Brett Keisel's aunt), RayD and a few others. Were you there for the epic "Pimply Dan" thread? :chuckle:

[tube517]

Great.

I never really bashed those guys. Colcoughly...I bashed him a bit but I thought the other guys were decent CBs. Serviceable 2s or 3s.


Yeah, they were bashed hard in my other board,including me. I thought that was the worse DB backfield until now. They started off pretty good but by 2001-02, they went downhill. Chad Scott was starter way too long though. Eventually replaced by an aging Willie Williams (by injury but could never get his job back) and then let go in free agency.

[fansince'76]

Yeah, they were bashed hard in my other board,including me. I thought that was the worse DB backfield until now. They started off pretty good but by 2001-02, they went downhill. Chad Scott was starter way too long though. Eventually replaced by an aging Willie Williams (by injury but could never get his job back) and then let go in free agency.

"Charred" Scott.

Well, one consolation is that none of the current stiffs in the secondary had a first round pick wasted on them...

[teegre]

Great.

I never really bashed those guys. Colcoughly...I bashed him a bit but I thought the other guys were decent CBs. Serviceable 2s or 3s.

I'm with you. I defended Deshea Townsend for years, because I felt he was a serviceable #2, and a very good #3. But, you would have thought that he was DJ Johnson bad (if you only went by message board posts).

- - - Updated - - -


"Charred" Scott.

Well, one consolation is that none of the current stiffs in the secondary had a first round pick wasted on them...

How did I never think of that??? Brilliant!!!

We called him Toast... but, Charred is 100 times better.

- - - Updated - - -


Yeah, they were bashed hard in my other board,including me. I thought that was the worse DB backfield until now. They started off pretty good but by 2001-02, they went downhill. Chad Scott was starter way too long though. Eventually replaced by an aging Willie Williams (by injury but could never get his job back) and then let go in free agency.

In their defense, they were drafted for their ability to run-support. No one in the AFC North/Central was passing as much as they do now; it was a run-first division: Eddie George, Fred Taylor, Jamaal Lewis, Corey Dillon.

It wasn't until the opening game of the 2002 season that teams realized that they could go four-wide, and pass on the Steelers.

[tube517]

I'm with you. I defended Deshea Townsend for years, because I felt he was a serviceable #2, and a very good #3. But, you would have thought that he was DJ Johnson bad (if you only went by message board posts).

- - - Updated - - -



How did I never think of that??? Brilliant!!!

We called him Toast... but, Charred is 100 times better.

- - - Updated - - -



In their defense, they were drafted for their ability to run-support. No one in the AFC North/Central was passing as much as they do now; it was a run-first division: Eddie George, Fred Taylor, Jamaal Lewis, Corey Dillon.

It wasn't until the opening game of the 2002 season that teams realized that they could go four-wide, and pass on the Steelers.

Yeah, in looking at their stats now, they weren't too bad. (Each had 5 picks in 2000)...... I guess 2002 and esp 2003 lingers in my head. :chuckle:

[86WARD]

Lol. DJ Johnson. He was a creepy looking dude.

[tube517]

Lol. DJ Johnson. He was a creepy looking dude.

http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/Cards/Football/33659/33659-3445127Bk.jpg

[steel striker]

I remember Hank I Just Got Beat Poteat!

[steelreserve]

Speaking of Greg Lloyd, Cowher inherited a plethora of talent: Dermontti Dawson (HOF), Rod Woodson (HOF), Greg Lloyd, Carnell Lake, Eric Green, Hardy Nickerson, Gerald Williams, Jerol Williams, Thomas Everett, Merril Hoge, Barry Foster... After about six years, as those players retired/moved on, the Steelers started to rebuild. Similarly, after Troy, Hines, et al. retired/moved on, another rebuilding process began. IMO 1998-2000 were far rougher than the past three seasons.

As far as depth goes, in the late 90s/early 2000s, there was one team running a 3-4 defense: the Steelers. Ergo, it was a lot easier to draft OLBs in the later rounds (because no one else was targeting "tweeners"). Joey Porter would not have lasted until the end of R3; he would have been a top 20 pick in the 2015 draft.

Look at the Cowher drafts carefully. For every Shamarko Thomas, there is a Scott Shields. For every Thad Gibson, there is a Steven Conley. For every AQ Shipley, there is a Jamain Stephens. Et cetera.

Regardless of of drafting luck an/or dynamics, was the depth really that good? People moan about Jarvis Jones "starting only because he was a first round pick", but Chad Scott started for far too long, because they couldn't draft a CB to save their lives. Speaking of CBs, Deshea Townsend is the best example of the "grass being greener". From 2002-2005, he was picked on by fans so much, it makes it seem like the harassment that William Gay has undergone is child's play. My point is: I think that some of us are looking back at those rosters through rose colored glasses, because I remember the lambasting that was occurring about the "lack of depth at CB" during the Cowher years.

In other words, if I replace the name "Tomlin" with the name "Cowher" in many of the recent posts, they would be 100% identical to posts made a dozen years ago.


Listen, this could go on for days about who we drafted or didn't draft, or which player was better than we remember or worse then we remember, etc. All I know is that I was there to witness both Cowher and Tomlin, and at the time it felt a lot more like the team just overall had its shit together back then than it does now. Of course there were problems, but there was not the sense of stagnation that I get today. Above all, when we had the big stars, we weren't going .500 year after year.

Of course it is all a matter of opinion and one that's unlikely to be resolved any time soon. We have all been hit with the grass-is-greener admonishment about 500 times by now, so believe me, I'm not just somehow forgetting that the past was not all undefeated seasons and 10 Super Bowls, because omg anyone but Tomlin. I was watching the same shit as you, and I didn't somehow forget it while only the people who like Tomlin remembered it. Dude just seems like an average coach who's somewhat adrift in certain areas that happen to be very important, and who did what or didn't do what 15 years ago doesn't really affect that, it's just an easy example to try and illustrate that.

[Mojouw]

Cowher's team were famous for coming out "flat" the first two weeks or so and tended to drop winnable games against lesser competition early in the season. Used to be argued that he worked the team to hard in camp. Sound familiar? Only Tomlin doesn't work the guys hard enough.

Cowher's teams used to draft some head scratchers. He picked 'Zo Jackson about 2 round early because he liked the look in his eye. Tomlin's teams have drafted some head scratchers as well.

Cowher's teams often had a seemingly stubborn refusal to make adjustments and tended to run their gameplan regardless of situation. When this worked, it was called "having an identity" or "imposing their will" when it did not, they got beat. Sound familiar?

Cowher was critiqued as not an "x's and o's guy" and that he needed good coordinators to devise gameplans. Sound familiar?

Finally, Cowher had crappy seasons, in a row even! http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/CowhBi0.htm

Now, it has

[TeeTee]

I guess I just hallucinated that the Steelers made the SB in 10?

Yeah I know that's not winning, but your OP doesn;'t even bother to mention that he got the team to two SB's. I think that has quite a bit of relevance. Because imo if the Steelers have a good offseason and have some luck with health the 2016 team could be far more talented than the 10 team ever was. Better right across the board offensively. Obviously defense wont be as good as that team's but the offense could be so damn good that they wont need a great defense next year. Just a good one. And I think that can happen.

Anyway if you're so convinced there's no hope to win another Super Bowl as long as Tomlin's coach why not take a break from the team until he retires or is fired? Don't worry we'll manage to get by without you until that day comes. :wave:

:chuckle:

First of all 2010 was a team still packed with veteran leaders, that virtually managed itself. That happens with a core of solid leaders/players - the 1995 Cowboys won a ring while being "coached" by Wicky Wack Barry Switzer. Were ANY teams clamoring to hire him after he blew out of Dallas? A virtually worthless coach can win under the perfect storm of a collection of solid, veteran players.

Secondly, you have no right to wish my disappearance over my opinion of Tomlin, any more so than I have the right to tell you to beat it while you foolishly believe the guy is a good coach. Until you realize he is dimwitted, you should leave here and not come back until you can see Tomlin for what he is: a slow-witted, over-his-head coach who constantly makes poor decisions, and even after making blunders, doesn't learn from his mistakes, which is the worst possible scenario.

[st33lersguy]

8-8 is not a losing season no matter how you paint it. Its a SUCKY season for a fan base that is used to winning...but its not a losing season.

8-8 doesn't get you to the playoffs (except on occasions where the rest of the division stinks). 8-8 simply isn't good enough especially with an elite NFL QB in today's pass happy offense. It's a waste of Ben's best years

[TeeTee]

No team, no GM, no coach, has sterling draft classes every pick, every year. So there is that. Cowher actually inherited a lot of talent himself, and his "player's coach" style woke up that talent, which was a needed change from Noll's stoic, no-nonsense approach. Cowher took a team coming off a losing season to the playoffs in his 1st year. But he did so with players such as:

Rod Woodson
Greg Lloyd
Nickerson
Lake
Barry Foster
Eric Green
Thomas Everette
Dirt Dawson
Haselrig
Hoge
Tunch
John Jackson
Lou Lipps
O'Donnell
Strzelczyk
Keith Willis
Ernie Mills
Kenny Davidson
David Little

That is not exactly chopped liver. True, Cowher made it all come together, but let's not act like he didn't inherit some good players.

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8-8 doesn't get you to the playoffs (except on occasions where the rest of the division stinks). 8-8 simply isn't good enough especially with an elite NFL QB in today's pass happy offense. It's a waste of Ben's best years

When you have a franchise QB, and a lot of play makers for him to use, 8-8 is a failed campaign. With a QB like Ben, any season you don't win 10 games is major FAIL.

Show me how many 8-8 seasons the likes of Brady, Rogers, Elway, Marino, Montana, et al have laid out there. Not many. And yet we are staring at 3 out of four 8-8 seasons. Not acceptable. Coaching is failing at this point. Tomlin makes so many errors in so many areas, it's becoming impossible to overcome. A legit coach would have won 3 more games this season. You give Belichick this team and tell me what their record would be.

[TeeTee]

Were there "dong sacks" on that site? :wink02:


I could at least understand the angst towards Cowher in 2003. What baffled my mind was the nay-saying and derision of the 2004 season; I swear that some Steelers fans were actually happy that the Steelers lost the AFCCG... just so that they could say: "See. I told you that Cowher will never win the big one."

There were discussions on "titty fighting." Chest Bump

[Mojouw]

When you have a franchise QB, and a lot of play makers for him to use, 8-8 is a failed campaign. With a QB like Ben, any season you don't win 10 games is major FAIL.

Show me how many 8-8 seasons the likes of Brady, Rogers, Elway, Marino, Montana, et al have laid out there. Not many. And yet we are staring at 3 out of four 8-8 seasons. Not acceptable. Coaching is failing at this point. Tomlin makes so many errors in so many areas, it's becoming impossible to overcome. A legit coach would have won 3 more games this season. You give Belichick this team and tell me what their record would be.

Once again you are an uninformed jackass. It is so common, I do not know why I let it both surprise me and piss me off. It isn't that I don't agree with you (in this case I might even) it is just that anything useful you have to say is lost in fog of nonsense, conjecture, flat out untruths, and a general lack of knowledge and facts.

Marino had 10 seasons where he went 9-7 or less. In fact from 1986 through 1991, Marion only won more than 8 games ONCE.
Elway had 7 seasons where he went 9-7 or less.
Montana and Young had zero, same with Brady. Amazing. Almost unbelievable.
Favre had 5 seasons with the Packers that were 9-7 or worse.
Jim Kelly had 4 seasons at 9-7 or worse, that is 40% of his career by the way and he made the HOF.
Rodgers has had 2 losing seasons in his 7 year career. Pack looks on the verge of collapse this year as well.
Peyton had 2 losing seasons with the Colts.
Eli has had 6 seasons at 9-7 or worse and the Giants are well on their way to a 7th.
Brees has had 4 8-8 or worse seasons with the Saints and is well on the way to a 5th.
Rivers has had 7 (counting this year) seasons of 9-7 or worse.

So tell me again about your 10 win theory? Once again you have staked out a position that is grounded in nonsense, not the actual facts, and use it to advance your two favorite points - namely that Tomlin is a bad coach and needs to go and that Belicheck is a superior coach.

[Rotorhead]

This is quite possibly the most ridiculous argument I have seen in a long time. First off, Belicheat has had pretty much 6 gimme games each season he has been the coach. The Jets, Bills and Dophins have been stuck in Browns mode for at least 10 years. This is the first year any of those teams have even fielded a competitive team not to mention perennial playoff contenders like the North has. Get some perspective. Also, half the teams in the league wish they could have an 8-8 (while basically rebuilding the team) season or better every year. We are rebuilding after a very large loss of talented veterans in the last few years. Our offense is one of the top in the league which has been plagued by injuries this season (or we might have 2 losses at most). Our defense is better than most expected and we are in the driver seat for a playoff appearance with the ability to make some noise in the playoffs if we can get a few kinks worked out. We are a legitimate SB contender next year barring injuries and 1 solid CB. We all know you hate Tomlin and Love Belicheat, I am just unsure why you are even on these boards right now, why don't you just become a Cheats fan already, come on out of the closet.

[tube517]

http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/files/2014/01/StrawMan2.jpg :chuckle:

[TeeTee]

Once again you are an uninformed jackass.

A flat out, ad hominem attack, which is explicitly against board rules, but perhaps, the allowance of double standards apply here.




It is so common, I do not know why I let it both surprise me and piss me off. It isn't that I don't agree with you (in this case I might even) it is just that anything useful you have to say is lost in fog of nonsense, conjecture, flat out untruths, and a general lack of knowledge and facts.

Marino had 10 seasons where he went 9-7 or less. In fact from 1986 through 1991, Marion only won more than 8 games ONCE.
Elway had 7 seasons where he went 9-7 or less.
Montana and Young had zero, same with Brady. Amazing. Almost unbelievable.
Favre had 5 seasons with the Packers that were 9-7 or worse.
Jim Kelly had 4 seasons at 9-7 or worse, that is 40% of his career by the way and he made the HOF.
Rodgers has had 2 losing seasons in his 7 year career. Pack looks on the verge of collapse this year as well.
Peyton had 2 losing seasons with the Colts.
Eli has had 6 seasons at 9-7 or worse and the Giants are well on their way to a 7th.
Brees has had 4 8-8 or worse seasons with the Saints and is well on the way to a 5th.
Rivers has had 7 (counting this year) seasons of 9-7 or worse.

Ah, we have moved the goalposts! Very effective way to win argument. 9-7 is a WINNING record, but you casually and conveniently (and not too subtly) treat 9-7 as the same as 8-8, while it is clearly not one in the same.


So tell me again about your 10 win theory? Once again you have staked out a position that is grounded in nonsense, not the actual facts, and use it to advance your two favorite points - namely that Tomlin is a bad coach and needs to go and that Belicheck is a superior coach.

In your race towards gnashing of teeth and howling at the moon, you tried to move the goalposts to 9-7 being equal to 8-8, which - if you were thinking rationally - would agree, while only being a one win/loss difference, are not the same animal. 9-7 is a winning season. 8-8 is not. 9-7 often (not always) gets you into the postseason, 8-8 never does, unless you are in a horrid division (i.e. AFC South, NFC East).

But let's not quibble over semantics. The big picture, thrust of the topic, is that a head coach, with having a QB like Ben, should contend almost every year, and contending means postseason. Cowher had his down seasons, but he was working with the likes of Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, Mike Tomczak, etc. as his QBs in those down years. Once he had Ben, he ripped off record-setting seasons, such as 15-1 with Ben in there. Tomlin provides us with non-winning seasons, even with far more weapons on offense than Cowher ever had. Ever. Oh, and yes, he had a poor 2006 season, but that was because he - and his players - knew he was a lame duck coach, and the drive and effort just were't there.

If you want to disagree with me, fine. That is what message boards are for. But please refrain from the personal attacks, as this place does not want that kind of content.

- - - Updated - - -


This is quite possibly the most ridiculous argument I have seen in a long time. First off, Belicheat has had pretty much 6 gimme games each season he has been the coach. The Jets, Bills and Dophins have been stuck in Browns mode for at least 10 years.

"Gimme games?" Are you serious? With Tomlin, that would mean we would lose over half those games vs. teams with below .200% winning percentages. We would be cooked if we had to play all those games vs. bad teams with our head coach.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014/11/13/7216363/are-the-steelers-actually-bad-against-lousy-teams

[polamalubeast]

A flat out, ad hominem attack, which is explicitly against board rules, but perhaps, the allowance of double standards apply here.





Ah, we have moved the goalposts! Very effective way to win argument. 9-7 is a WINNING record, but you casually and conveniently (and not too subtly) treat 9-7 as the same as 8-8, while it is clearly not one in the same.



In your race towards gnashing of teeth and howling at the moon, you tried to move the goalposts to 9-7 being equal to 8-8, which - if you were thinking rationally - would agree, while only being a one win/loss difference, are not the same animal. 9-7 is a winning season. 8-8 is not. 9-7 often (not always) gets you into the postseason, 8-8 never does, unless you are in a horrid division (i.e. AFC South, NFC East).

But let's not quibble over semantics. The big picture, thrust of the topic, is that a head coach, with having a QB like Ben, should contend almost every year, and contending means postseason. Cowher had his down seasons, but he was working with the likes of Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, Mike Tomczak, etc. as his QBs in those down years. Once he had Ben, he ripped off record-setting seasons, such as 15-1 with Ben in there. Tomlin provides us with non-winning seasons, even with far more weapons on offense than Cowher ever had. Ever. Oh, and yes, he had a poor 2006 season, but that was because he - and his players - knew he was a lame duck coach, and the drive and effort just were't there.

If you want to disagree with me, fine. That is what message boards are for. But please refrain from the personal attacks, as this place does not want that kind of content.

- - - Updated - - -



"Gimme games?" Are you serious? With Tomlin, that would mean we would lose over half those games vs. teams with below .200% winning percentages. We would be cooked if we had to play all those games vs. bad teams with our head coach.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014/11/13/7216363/are-the-steelers-actually-bad-against-lousy-teams



You said.....
When you have a franchise QB, and a lot of play makers for him to use, 8-8 is a failed campaign. With a QB like Ben, any season you don't win 10 games is major FAIL.

[Mojouw]

Dude, you said anything less than a 10 win season was a "major" failure. So I took a look at a range of comparable "franchise" Qbs that are "like Ben" and looked for ANY season with less than 10 wins. I can go back and do it with any standard you want to set. The point is you whip statements out of your ass or off the top of your head (which I suspect are basically the same place, since your head is so far up your ass all you can see is a faded picture of Belicheck) that are NOT backed by facts. So you want to hold the Steelers to which of the following standards - seriously tell us and I will do the Googling and prove you wrong.

1. Less than 10 wins
2. Losing Seasons
3. .500 seasons (that's 8-8 in case you can't follow) or less
4. Non play off seasons
5. Non Super Bowl winning seasons

I could go on, but that should be a good start. What is your standard for comparison? As for the personal attacks, I will continue to call you or anyone else out who makes essentially the same argument in every thread, refuses to provide facts or any actual information to back up their statements and is consistently rude, dismissive, or in general, a jackass, to anyone who points out these simple realities to them. Bottom line, this board has become much less enjoyable since you started posting the same tired and lame nonsense here day in and day out.

[Rotorhead]

Yes, Gimme games, the Patriots have 6 "Gimme Games" each year for over 10 years . . . you can make up what you want about if the Steelers would have won or not, but the simple FACT is the Patriots have basically started each of their past 10+ season 6-0, it makes it pretty easy to get to 10 wins that way. Hell, when Marsha Brady was injured for the ENTIRE season, they still won 10 games with a QB who has proven to be less than bad ever since. That alone should give you an idea of how bad their conference has been. If we lost Ben for a season, we lose 4-5 div games in each of the last 10 years. Get it? You are comparing half truths and moronic ideas in an attempt to show everyone how bad Ben, Tomlin and the Steelers are. Again, why are you even on this board, there are a lot of Pats boards that will welcome you with open arms.

[zulater]

First of all 2010 was a team still packed with veteran leaders, that virtually managed itself. That happens with a core of solid leaders/players - the 1995 Cowboys won a ring while being "coached" by Wicky Wack Barry Switzer. Were ANY teams clamoring to hire him after he blew out of Dallas? A virtually worthless coach can win under the perfect storm of a collection of solid, veteran players.

Secondly, you have no right to wish my disappearance over my opinion of Tomlin, any more so than I have the right to tell you to beat it while you foolishly believe the guy is a good coach. Until you realize he is dimwitted, you should leave here and not come back until you can see Tomlin for what he is: a slow-witted, over-his-head coach who constantly makes poor decisions, and even after making blunders, doesn't learn from his mistakes, which is the worst possible scenario.

2010 Cowher was a full four seasons gone, five from his last winning season. To anoint any credit to Cowher for that team is beyond absurd. Noll was just as close to Cowher's 95 SB entrant as Cowher was to that team. Just a pathetic argument on your part. Based solely on your dislike of Tomlin who you refuse to give any credit to at any point.

Now as far as my feelings towards Tomlin the coach. Yeah I have problems with him too. But I also realize that if you gave the fans of the other 31 teams the chance to trade their current coach for Tomlin I would wager somewhere around 25( give or take a couple spots either way) of those fan bases would be all over it. You see while we see every perceived error our coaching staff makes they do the same with their own team's coach. This ain't exactly the golden age of coaching. :lol:

As far as your advice in response to my advice of suspending your fandom (is this a word? :heh: ) of the Steelers. Again your reply makes little sense. Because whether or not Tomlin is in fact a dope as you assert ( he's not) the fact is short of tragedy or tremendous scandal he's not going anywhere anytime soon. And you know it as well as I do, it's the Steelers way. So seeing as I can easily stomach the duration of Tomlin's tenure why on earth would I need to take leave of Steelers nation? You on the other hand are not only seemingly tortured by Tomlin's every day in the Burgh, but you also seem intent on making the rest of our lives equally miserable as well. So that's why I suggested you take a break until "Cool Shades" leaves our fair team. My advice still stands.

[ALLD]

A lot of people would agree he is not worth the $5 million paycheck. How many wins is he worth compared to losses?

[TeeTee]

Dude, you said anything less than a 10 win season was a "major" failure. So I took a look at a range of comparable "franchise" Qbs that are "like Ben" and looked for ANY season with less than 10 wins. I can go back and do it with any standard you want to set. The point is you whip statements out of your ass or off the top of your head (which I suspect are basically the same place, since your head is so far up your ass all you can see is a faded picture of Belicheck) that are NOT backed by facts. So you want to hold the Steelers to which of the following standards - seriously tell us and I will do the Googling and prove you wrong.

1. Less than 10 wins
2. Losing Seasons
3. .500 seasons (that's 8-8 in case you can't follow) or less
4. Non play off seasons
5. Non Super Bowl winning seasons

I could go on, but that should be a good start. What is your standard for comparison? As for the personal attacks, I will continue to call you or anyone else out who makes essentially the same argument in every thread, refuses to provide facts or any actual information to back up their statements and is consistently rude, dismissive, or in general, a jackass, to anyone who points out these simple realities to them. Bottom line, this board has become much less enjoyable since you started posting the same tired and lame nonsense here day in and day out.

I can see where that one line about anything but 10 wins is a fail, and why you took off with that, but I did also make mention of the 8-8 campaigns and that was the thing I was thinking of. Splitting hairs. As far as me "posting the same thing day in and day out," well, the frequency of the instances of Tomlin failing has increased, so, I guess that is why posts of that nature have also increased. With each passing game of him losing games due to coaching errors, it makes me increase my frequency of bringing it up. Had he been doing a decent job as head coach, of course I wouldn't be posting about it. I am fed up with his inferior, illogical and inexcusable gags as head coach. I am convinced we will never win another ring as long as Tomlin is in Pgh. You can disagree, that is fine. But I don't tell you what to believe, so why do you think you have the right to use ad hominem attacks at me, just because you don't agree. I do not believe there are any provisions in board rules that allow for one to levy personal attacks just because you don't agree with an opinion. And, opinions are not "based in fact" or they wouldn't be called "opinions." And don't worry: If the mods continue to apply double standards, I will be gone sooner rather than later. I have never, once, levied personal attacks over someone's opinion on this board. I may push back a little, but that is only after being attacked in the first place.

In example after example, Tomlin falls short of being wise enough to win the games that are there to be won. If you only want facts, then read up on these facts.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014/11/13/7216363/are-the-steelers-actually-bad-against-lousy-teams

[TeeTee]

2010 Cowher was a full four seasons gone, five from his last winning season. To anoint any credit to Cowher for that team is beyond absurd. Noll was just as close to Cowher's 95 SB entrant as Cowher was to that team. Just a pathetic argument on your part. Based solely on your dislike of Tomlin who you refuse to give any credit to at any point.

Now as far as my feelings towards Tomlin the coach. Yeah I have problems with him too. But I also realize that if you gave the fans of the other 31 teams the chance to trade their current coach for Tomlin I would wager somewhere around 25( give or take a couple spots either way) of those fan bases would be all over it. You see while we see every perceived error our coaching staff makes they do the same with their own team's coach. This ain't exactly the golden age of coaching. :lol:

As far as your advice in response to my advice of suspending your fandom (is this a word? :heh: ) of the Steelers. Again your reply makes little sense. Because whether or not Tomlin is in fact a dope as you assert ( he's not) the fact is short of tragedy or tremendous scandal he's not going anywhere anytime soon. And you know it as well as I do, it's the Steelers way. So seeing as I can easily stomach the duration of Tomlin's tenure why on earth would I need to take leave of Steelers nation? You on the other hand are not only seemingly tortured by Tomlin's every day in the Burgh, but you also seem intent on making the rest of our lives equally miserable as well. So that's why I suggested you take a break until "Cool Shades" leaves our fair team. My advice still stands.

Well, how many of these veteran leaders from 2010 were Cowher players?

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/roster/2010

Troy, Ben, Hampton, Farrior, Keisel, Ike, Heath Miller, McFadden, Starks, Woodley, Aaron Smith, Ward, etc. That's still a boatload of veteran leaders.

[polamalubeast]

I admit that I prefer Cowher than Tomlin and Tomlin can be very frustrating sometimes, but this post is ridiculous.

I agree that a 8-8 season with Roethlisberger is a big fail, but Tomlin is far from being one of the worst coach in the NFL.

[Mojouw]

I can see where that one line about anything but 10 wins is a fail, and why you took off with that, but I did also make mention of the 8-8 campaigns and that was the thing I was thinking of. Splitting hairs. As far as me "posting the same thing day in and day out," well, the frequency of the instances of Tomlin failing has increased, so, I guess that is why posts of that nature have also increased. With each passing game of him losing games due to coaching errors, it makes me increase my frequency of bringing it up. Had he been doing a decent job as head coach, of course I wouldn't be posting about it. I am fed up with his inferior, illogical and inexcusable gags as head coach. I am convinced we will never win another ring as long as Tomlin is in Pgh. You can disagree, that is fine. But I don't tell you what to believe, so why do you think you have the right to use ad hominem attacks at me, just because you don't agree. I do not believe there are any provisions in board rules that allow for one to levy personal attacks just because you don't agree with an opinion. And, opinions are not "based in fact" or they wouldn't be called "opinions." And don't worry: If the mods continue to apply double standards, I will be gone sooner rather than later. I have never, once, levied personal attacks over someone's opinion on this board. I may push back a little, but that is only after being attacked in the first place.

In example after example, Tomlin falls short of being wise enough to win the games that are there to be won. If you only want facts, then read up on these facts.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014/11/13/7216363/are-the-steelers-actually-bad-against-lousy-teams

What? The article you linked to concludes the EXACT opposite of what you claim it does. And I quote "But what we can't do is claim that the Tomlin-era Steelers tend to roll over against bad teams. It's just simply not true. It might feel true, but that's not the same as being true. And if you disagree with that, I welcome you to show me the numbers. Here are mine."

So what are we talking about again? Oh, yeah, you have an opinion that has NO basis in facts. You, are of course, allowed to your opinion. But, when you continue to shout it from the rooftops and proclaim it is a valid opinion and that it needs to be not only acknowledged but listened to by other reasonable people; then you open yourself up to criticism and evaluation of that opinion by others. If you continue to twist the facts, or make blanket statements that overstep the bounds of truth and logic - then you are going to get called for it. If you take the time to look you will find that I do not only do this to you but other posters as well. Doesn't make me right. Doesn't make me a great guy. It just means that if I am going to argue about something, I'm going to do it with actual facts and informed logically derived opinions. Not knee-jerk reactionary emotional rants.

Now, I can see your point on the direct attacks, and if I offended you, then that was a poor decision on my part. If, however, it gets you to realize how frustrating and infuriating your repeated twisting of every thread into an anti-Tomlin rant, then I'll stand by it.

Long story short, You clearly lay almost all of the Steelers problems at Tomlin's feet. That's fine. Others, myself included, would like to expand the discussion beyond just "Tomlin is dumb, he should get fired." to include things like, is the roster really as good as we all thought? What was and remains a realistic expectation for the defense? Are the proper players on the roster? In the line-up? Is the situation in Pittsburgh better, worse, or the same as that in other comparable NFL situations?

[Hawkman]

Yep, I remember "HillbillyBiker" as well as "Wyoming Cowgirl Barbie" (who was supposedly Brett Keisel's aunt), RayD and a few others. Were you there for the epic "Pimply Dan" thread? :chuckle:

Damn! How long ago was the "Pimply Dan" thread?:rofl2:

[teegre]

There were discussions on "titty fighting." Chest Bump

As well as tirades about Taunto the Winged-God of linebackimg. :lol:

[teegre]

Of course it is all a matter of opinion and one that's unlikely to be resolved any time soon.

Bingo!!!

[hawaiiansteeler]

Tomlin will win two more rings before he retires and goes on the WSOP Tour...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0a/1b/8b/0a1b8b73ffb133bcaaba167d632898a5.jpg

[86WARD]

Tomlin will win two more rings before he retires and goes on the WSOP Tour...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0a/1b/8b/0a1b8b73ffb133bcaaba167d632898a5.jpg

Troof!!!

[Hawkman]

Tomlin will win two more rings before he retires and goes on the WSOP Tour...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0a/1b/8b/0a1b8b73ffb133bcaaba167d632898a5.jpg


I don't care what people think of Tomlin, that's a great photograph!

[BigBen2004]

He wins one more ring.

I say this because, with the offense staying healthy, they have too much talent. He's bound to have a year where the team is fairly healthy. Every team has that kind of year.
When that year comes, Ben will take full advantage of his weapons.

I think Ben is guaranteed one more ring. His first two are always discredited because we had a "great team, great defense", yada yada. So, I think Ben is bound to light it up and carry this team to one more Lombardi.
They won't need Tomlin's help. All they need is for him to watch.

But once Ben goes, not long after, Tomlin will follow suit. I don't see him as the HC in 7 years. Maybe not even 6.

Ben is #7. I feel like he's just destined to get #7 for the organization. Which will put him in some of the most elite company in NFL history.
Then they can try to discredit that.

[teegre]

They won't need Tomlin's help.

As I mentioned earlier, if Tomlin amassed the talent on offense and was their coach, how does he not get any credit for the Lombardi???


This is just like after XL, when KillCowher avered that: Cowher "only" won because he had the superior talent on defense. Uh... exactly!!!

[steel striker]

I'm not going to say another super bowl won't happen with Cool Shades at the helm but, he has to make better in game coaching decisions then he has the last couple of years. With Ben and the offense they always will have a good shot at winning but, Ben won't be here forever. We need safety help and, better play at the CB spot as well.

[fansince'76]

...we are doomed to never win another rings as long as Tomlin is head coach...

...Just get used to it, and you will be less disappointed.

I don't see anyone else here squawking about Tomlin in every other thread and derailing completely unrelated threads by attempting to turn them into Tomlin bitchfests.

Irony, anyone?

[Rotorhead]

I don't see anyone else here squawking about Tomlin in every other thread and derailing completely unrelated threads by attempting to turn them into Tomlin bitchfests.

Irony, anyone?

lol

[tube517]

I don't see anyone else here squawking about Tomlin in every other thread and derailing completely unrelated threads by attempting to turn them into Tomlin bitchfests.

Irony, anyone?

Or creating hippofart strawman threads that create Twitter and Facebook posts. I am on Twitter alot and cringe when I see an SU tweet with one of those posts. Also, on Tapatalk, it posts a picture that was posted in each thread so my Taptalk "feed" on my phone is full of Hippo fart videos!

[Moose]

I can't envision Tomlin winning another Super Bowl because 1. He allows too much lethargy on this team, and too many times this has translated to slow starts in games that lead to large deficits that cannot be overcome and 2. He is too stubborn to bench/let go of crappy players that he inexplicably develops an infatuation over, players whose mistakes can cost this team big time.

Like Landry !

[Mojouw]

People act like there are all these unemployed high quality NFL players just laying around waiting for Tomlin to give them a call. I don't necessarily think that it is that the Steelers hang on to players for too long, it is more of who else are they going to play?

When guys are cut by an NFL franchise and STARTING at CB for your team the next day - you have some holes on your roster. When you bring back Will Allen with the hope that he rounds out the position group in camp and the young guy you put in front of him is too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time - who else are you going to start? So Boykin is one guy. Let's assume that he is a Pro-Bowler. Teams will just throw away from him and beat Cockrell, Gay, and Allen like a drum. We have all seen it been done before against the Steelers. Avoid Ike and throw on everyone else.

At LB'er the only other option is Chick-filet who is likely only on the active roster to keep him from getting signed off the PS by another team.

This offseason the Steelers scoured the earth trying to find depth players for their main areas of weakness - DB, interior OL, and DL. None of them were deemed good enough to play in the NFL or they got hurt. Since I have not seen the names of any of the lottery tickets they bought pop up elsewhere, then all the other NFL teams also agree those guys stunk.

We need to face facts. On the defensive side of the ball, aside from Heyward and Tuitt for sure and MAYBE Dupree and Shazier, the roster is filled with players that are basically at the "just a guy" level. Despite that low level of competency, there are not exactly oodles of folks hanging around that would be any better. I mean you can't just pull up to a Home Depot parking lot and hire a free safety.