I Love the Steelers but.... [Archive]

StillCurtains

11-30-2015, 05:56 PM

Hey guys!

I'm a die hard Steeler fan just as I'm sure all of you are, but I have to admit for me, this was the worst loss of the season. I commend the coaches for having this team in position for the post season with all the suspensions and multiple injuries. However, there are some decisions by Tomlin and the staff could have done for us to be in better position.

The in game decisions have been bad. Against the Pats, we run a trick pass play wit AB that didn't work while having momentum,we refuse to spread them out on the goal line using Jumbo, and continue to run Will Johnson there instead of Williams.

Against Baltimore, we try a fake punt and didn't give Bell the ball in the final minutes.

Against Seattle, the ill advised fake FG attempt, the decision not to go for it on 4th and goal when the defense couldn't stop them, and the constant drive killing deep balls on third and short all season.

Add to the fact that Blake has been killing us all season, and Tomlin continues to start him even while hurt. This last game is the most furious I have ever been with Tomlin and the team had 2 weeks to prepare.

I am truly a die hard fan, but the way that Tomlin is mismanaging this season is making it very challenging. Blake absolutely needs benched right now for Boykin. It also wouldn't hurt for Grant to start getting playing time as well as Golden replacing Allen.

What I can say is, if Tomlin trots Blake back out there again this week, it's going to be very difficult for me to support him any further. His stubborness and arrogance has truly taken it's toll on this team, and we no longer have any margin for error.

86WARD

11-30-2015, 06:08 PM

I'm beginning to think this team is winning despite Tomlin and that Tomlin isn't the one keeping this team competitive through the injuries...

polamalubeast

11-30-2015, 06:12 PM

I'm beginning to think this team is winning despite Tomlin and that Tomlin isn't the one keeping this team competitive through the injuries...

agree

This team is disappointing in recent years and this is painful to say

steelreserve

11-30-2015, 06:18 PM

I'm beginning to think this team is winning despite Tomlin and that Tomlin isn't the one keeping this team competitive through the injuries...

The Cowher defense stayed around and mostly effective until about 2010 or 2011.

Since then we've been a .500 team, interrupted by an 11-5 season when we had the softest schedule in NFL history since the 1980s. So basically three wins better than .500 in four years, all courtesy of that one historically weak schedule. It took the prime years of a HOF quarterback and the best receiver in the game in order to do that.

So yeah - not really a hasty or unfair characterization IMO. We're underachieving like hell.

st33lersguy

11-30-2015, 06:24 PM

The Cowher defense stayed around and mostly effective until about 2010 or 2011.

Since then we've been a .500 team, interrupted by an 11-5 season when we had the softest schedule in NFL history since the 1980s. So basically three wins better than .500 in four years, all courtesy of that one historically weak schedule. It took the prime years of a HOF quarterback and the best receiver in the game in order to do that.

So yeah - not really a hasty or unfair characterization IMO. We're underachieving like hell.

Not to mention we could have been 13-3 and had the no. 1 seed had Tomlin's lethargy against crappy teams not led them to losses against the 2-14 Bucs (at HOME) and the 4-12 Jets

- - - Updated - - -

It is fair to say that Tomlin has not been getting the job done overall over the last 4 years. Stupid personnel decisions, careless decision making during games, total lethargy leading to inexcusable losses against some of the worst NFL teams.

polamalubeast

11-30-2015, 06:28 PM

fansince'76

11-30-2015, 06:31 PM

Several criticism Cowher for his defeats in the AFC title game at home, but I prefer to lose at home in the AFC title game that finish the season without a playoff win or missed the playoffs at 8-8!

How about his losing seasons in 1998, 1999 and 2003? Or the 4 non-playoff seasons over 6 seasons (1998-2003)?

Be careful what you wish for folks, you just might get it...

polamalubeast

11-30-2015, 06:35 PM

How about his losing seasons in 1998, 1999 and 2003? Or the 4 non-playoff seasons over 6 seasons (1998-2003)?

Be careful what you wish for folks, you just might get it...

I take the bad Cowher over the Bad Tomlin.Not have a losing season is not an achievement when you have Roethlisberger as QB and Brown as WR.

fansince'76

11-30-2015, 06:38 PM

I take the bad Cowher over the Bad Tomlin.Not have a losing season is not an achievement when you have Roethlisberger as QB and Brown as WR.

Yeah, maybe we can start over with a brand new HC and wait 14 years for another Super Bowl...

B&GFever

11-30-2015, 06:40 PM

be careful you might be accused of Tomlin hating and being a knee jerk reactor who isnt a real fan and does not recall some of Cowhers down years etc etc etc

but continue by all means I prefer real talk , these are valid points 2 SB appearances aside we have not been very good over all ...

One of the best QBs in all of football

we have 2 of the best RBs in the game under contract

a WR corp perhaps second to none in the league

a pretty solid O-Line

a pair of bookends at DE and a group of high round draft picks at linebacker

a pricey FA S

and will be LUCKY to make the playoffs when only one team ( other than us ) has a winning record in the division ( browns and ravens combined 5-15 at this point ) and we are 1-1 vs them

fansince'76

11-30-2015, 06:42 PM

be careful you might be accused of Tomlin hating and being a knee jerk reactor who isnt a real fan and does not recall some of Cowhers down years etc etc etc

Not at all, maybe we can luck out and get another Chip Kelly!

polamalubeast

11-30-2015, 06:43 PM

Yeah, maybe we can start over with a brand new HC and wait 14 years for another Super Bowl...

I am not in the mentality of Super Bowl or bust, but I hate it when the steelers underachieving.

B&GFever

11-30-2015, 06:46 PM

for the record I would rather be beaten solidly by a good team than to lose games via bad decisions that we otherwise could have won

I would also prefer to win all the games we should win and lose the ones we have no business winning

at least then I would feel like the coach was doing a decent enough job with the players dealt him

I am tired of having superior talent on paper and losing games that we should be killing the opponent in and playing good teams close to only have victory stolen from us by bad decisions

fansince'76

11-30-2015, 06:47 PM

I am not in the mentality of Super Bowl or bust, but I hate it when the steelers underachieving.

Sorry, I remember all too clearly the EXACT same criticisms being leveled at Cowher for YEARS on end.

B&GFever

11-30-2015, 06:50 PM

Not at all, maybe we can luck out and get another Chip Kelly!

those who stand still instead of making attempts at improvement are doomed to be left behind ( something to ponder )

saying we can not do better is like Starting and injured Blake over Boykin because we know what we have in Blake ... in cases like that I roll the dice on the unknown ( only Boykin isnt truly and unknown then again unless its a lowly assistant neither would the coach )

fansince'76

11-30-2015, 06:53 PM

The Cowher defense stayed around and mostly effective until about 2010 or 2011.

Since then we've been a .500 team, interrupted by an 11-5 season when we had the softest schedule in NFL history since the 1980s. So basically three wins better than .500 in four years, all courtesy of that one historically weak schedule. It took the prime years of a HOF quarterback and the best receiver in the game in order to do that.

So yeah - not really a hasty or unfair characterization IMO. We're underachieving like hell.

2012 went into the toilet as soon as Ben went down against KC. 6-3 before, 2-5 after. And anybody who thinks he was anywhere near 100% at any point during the rest of that season needs to back away from the crack pipe.

2013 - yeah, that was a WTF season if I ever saw one.

And as far as cupcake schedules, what the hell do you guys think the Patriots have been feasting on for years?

polamalubeast

11-30-2015, 06:54 PM

Sorry, I remember all too clearly the EXACT same criticisms being leveled at Cowher for YEARS on end.

The only year that the Steelers have underachieving under Cowher was in 2006.

6 AFC title game with a young Ben,O'Donnell and Kordell is not underachieving.

Cowher won five playoff win in 3 years with Roethlisberger.Tomlin currently has five playoff win with Roethlisberger in 8 years!

st33lersguy

11-30-2015, 06:58 PM

Several criticism Cowher for his defeats in the AFC title game at home, but I prefer to lose at home in the AFC title game that finish the season without a playoff win or missed the playoffs at 8-8!

If steelers not win a playoff game this year, it'll be the greatest drought of the steelers without playoff win since 1972!

Losing at home in the AFC Championship game (especially with a revolving door of mediocre at best QBs) still better than losing in the wildcard to David Garrard led Jaguars and Tim F-ING Tebow with a franchise QB. Keep in mind, Cowher in 10 playoff appearances had 2 one-and-done appearances (one of them on the road against Joe Montana), Tomlin in only 5 playoff appearances has 3.

- - - Updated - - -

The only year that the Steelers have underachieving under Cowher was in 2006.

A season undoubtedly derailed by Ben's motorcycle accident, emergency appendectomy, and in-season concussion

fansince'76

11-30-2015, 06:59 PM

The only year that the Steelers have underachieving under Cowher was in 2006.

6 AFC title game with a young Ben,O'Donnell and Kordell is not underachieving.

Cowher won five playoff win in 3 years with Roethlisberger.Tomlin currently has five playoff win with Roethlisberger in 8 years!

It was largely COWHER's fault that he had crap QBs to begin with.

I'm not saying Tomlin's any great shakes, but I am beyond sick and tired of people treating Cowher's tenure like it was some "golden age" of Steelers football. It wasn't.

B&GFever

11-30-2015, 07:03 PM

Tomlin is the best , what other coach would allow 24% of the opponents completions go for TDs and not make a change ( or two ) in the secondary to try and improve his chances..

Wilson 21 completions ...... 5 touchdowns .....

Tomlins answer status quo ( no changes )

- - - Updated - - -

It was largely COWHER's fault that he had crap QBs to begin with.

Cowher ( all head coaches ) have to rely on the GM and the scouting department to make up the draft board as when the college season is going on so is the NFL , your time as a HC is devoted ( or should be ) to getting your team ready you do not have time to scout players at the college ranks ...

sure they have some say but make no mistake most of that is on the GM and his scouting department as 16 hours a day is devoted to film of your opponent and your own team

they can play some catch up after the season is over but not nearly enough time to scout everyone worthy of scouting

fansince'76

11-30-2015, 07:03 PM

A season undoubtedly derailed by Ben's motorcycle accident, emergency appendectomy, and in-season concussion

Please. Cowher spent that entire season on the sideline with a look on his face like he would have rather been anywhere else. He mailed the 2006 season in.

fansince'76

11-30-2015, 07:04 PM

Tomlin is the best , what other coach would allow 24% of the opponents completions go for TDs and not make a change ( or two ) in the secondary to try and improve his chances..

Wilson 21 completions ...... 5 touchdowns .....

Tomlins answer status quo ( no changes )

- - - Updated - - -

Cowher ( all head coaches ) have to rely on the GM and the scouting department to make up the draft board as when the college season is going on so is the NFL , your time as a HC is devoted ( or should be ) to getting your team ready you do not have time to scout players at the college ranks ...

sure they have some say but make no mistake most of that is on the GM and his scouting department as 16 hours a day is devoted to film of your opponent and your own team

Seems to me the only reason we drafted Roethlisberger was because Rooney pulled rank and insisted we do so...

teegre

11-30-2015, 07:05 PM

Déjà vu all over again. I remember similar comments from Ih8Cowher, Cowhersux, and KillCowher.

Distance sure does make the heart grow greener.

fansince'76

11-30-2015, 07:07 PM

Déjà vu all over again. I remember similar comments from Ih8Cowher, Cowhersux, and KillCowher.

Distance sure does make the heart grow greener.

Thank you. My point exactly.

B&GFever

11-30-2015, 07:08 PM

Seems to me the only reason we drafted Roethlisberger was because Rooney pulled rank and insisted we do so...

that's the media and some we have in the burgh is the absolute worst so we do not know for sure , hell they get stuff wrong on a consistent basis

fansince'76

11-30-2015, 07:09 PM

B&GFever

11-30-2015, 07:11 PM

haven't won a playoff game since 1/23/11.

fansince'76

11-30-2015, 07:13 PM

that's the media and some we have in the burgh is the absolute worst so we do not know for sure , hell they get stuff wrong on a consistent basis

No, actually it was Dan Rooney himself:

"I couldn't bear the thought of passing on another great quarterback prospect," Rooney wrote in his book "Dan Rooney: My 75 Years With The Pittsburgh Steelers and The NFL."

"So I steered the conversation around to Roethlisberger. After some more talk, we came to a consensus and picked Roethlisberger."

Translation: "We're taking Roethlisberger - forget this Shawn Andrews kid."

polamalubeast

11-30-2015, 07:14 PM

haven't won a playoff game since 1/23/11.

The biggest drought without playoffs win(and AFC title games) for Cowher was only 3 years!

teegre

11-30-2015, 07:22 PM

Cowher once tamed a wild boar by looking directly onto its soul.

st33lersguy

11-30-2015, 07:29 PM

haven't won a playoff game since 1/23/11.

A game in which the Steelers almost blew a 24 point lead at home to a team featuring loud-mouth foot-fetish as head coach and QB butt-fumble

steelreserve

12-01-2015, 12:26 AM

I guess this turned into another Cowher-vs.-Tomlin debate, but that wasn't really my point ... we all know Cowher had his faults, specifically the QB thing, but I think he's a great example of a guy who did a lot of the miscellaneous things that a good coach does - things I think have totally flown past Tomlin.

Certain kinds of talent evaluation. Player development, which is pretty much nonexistent right now except for the guys under Munchak and a handful of All-Pro caliber players who are good enough to figure things out on their own. Balance and depth - the way we've completely blown off multiple positions for so long is downright reckless and we are paying for it.

For that matter, overall involvement in the operations. Does anyone think Tomlin woke up one day and said "Shit! The offensive line's been a problem for years! We need to go out and hire Mike Munchak!" Or did management pull the fire alarm and make it happen? Let me put it this way, I'd be surprised if it was Tomlin's doing. I don't know how much control he really even has over his own assistants, or whether he just takes whatever someone else is handing him. If it's the latter, that's not a very good way to run a football team. Do you think THAT kind of thing was going on under Cowher, or goes on today under the top coaches in the league? I don't think so.

Point is not whether Cowher coming in to coach the Steelers today would be a good idea. It's that Tomlin just strikes me as a very average head coach, who leaves out a lot of the things that the best coaches do. Certain things that Cowher did and Tomlin does not are excellent examples of why. An average coach who, once he came into his own, has produced results about as average as you can get, despite having a HUGE leg up on most other teams because of his quarterback.

NCSteeler

12-01-2015, 01:13 AM

We can't seem to have a conversation about Tomlin without re hashing Cowher. Listen I don't want Cowher back, his time was done, BUT it is very reasonable at this point to grade Tomlin and he grades very poorly. Could we get a worse coach sure why not, but I TRUST the Rooneys and their levelheadedness not to hire Chip Kelly or anyone named Ryan. When will it be OK? After how many seasons of just finishing good enough? I'm not saying fire the guy but some serious soul searching needs to be done. I'm not sure what would change things but right now this is a mediocre team with high levels of talent at most positions.

86WARD

12-01-2015, 01:26 AM

Tomlin preaches about "all the details" but time and time again, on game day, it seems like all the details from a coaching perspective...they're not always all covered...

zulater

12-01-2015, 09:46 AM

I love the Steelers but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0X0ZYbnHxA

This be their approach on draft day when it comes to picking a defensive back. :chuckle:

steelreserve

12-01-2015, 11:18 AM

This be their approach on draft day when it comes to picking a defensive back. :chuckle:

More like this ...

http://i.giphy.com/LPmco4pGaupwI.gif

TeeTee

12-01-2015, 02:10 PM

Cowher once tamed a wild boar by looking directly onto its soul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBBO4TuP2Ew

hawaiiansteeler

12-01-2015, 02:15 PM

More like this ...

http://i.giphy.com/LPmco4pGaupwI.gif

:rofl2:

teegre

12-01-2015, 02:50 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBBO4TuP2Ew

Are you really going to follow me around and troll me in every thread?

(This makes three times that I've asked...)

steelreserve

12-01-2015, 04:00 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBBO4TuP2Ew

what is this, amateur hour?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b_zEg6dSyw

hawaiiansteeler

12-01-2015, 04:41 PM

http://i.imgur.com/a0xJKJR.png

TeeTee

12-01-2015, 04:43 PM

Are you really going to follow me around and troll me in every thread?

(This makes three times that I've asked...)

Oh, you FINALLY got it. I was going to ask you the same thing (you were doing this to me long ago).

steelreserve

12-01-2015, 04:44 PM

Oh, you FINALLY got it. I was going to ask you the same thing (you were doing this to me long ago).

psst ... it's a conspiracy.

TeeTee

12-01-2015, 05:07 PM

psst ... it's a conspiracy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VON6DiP-Dc

teegre

12-01-2015, 05:33 PM

Oh, you FINALLY got it. I was going to ask you the same thing (you were doing this to me long ago).

No.

What I did was: reply to your posts. You not liking my replies is not the same as trolling.

steelreserve

12-01-2015, 05:40 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VON6DiP-Dc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I11a661Drpc

Your move.

Hawkman

12-01-2015, 05:47 PM

polamalubeast

12-01-2015, 05:56 PM

The thing that gets me about threads like this is, everyone says "fire Tomlin"!! OK, so who is out there that everyone would just love to have replace him?? Ken Whisenhunt? Rob Ryan? Marty? (just kidding). Gruden is done with coaching....so who? An untested college coach...a re-tread?

Some of the same people here who want him fired, are also the people who were complimenting him for aggressive decisions, just a few weeks ago.

Soooo.....Give me some names and justify it!!!

I'm sure he has good candidates who have never been HC.

Sean Payton could be available too, but Payton will need someone to built a good defense.

But this is certain that it will not happen, since Tomlin will not be fired.......

fansince'76

12-01-2015, 06:04 PM

The thing that gets me about threads like this is, everyone says "fire Tomlin"!! OK, so who is out there that everyone would just love to have replace him?? Ken Whisenhunt? Rob Ryan? Marty? (just kidding). Gruden is done with coaching....so who? An untested college coach...a re-tread?

Some of the same people here who want him fired, are also the people who were complimenting him for aggressive decisions, just a few weeks ago.

Soooo.....Give me some names and justify it!!!

And then we get to wait 2-3 years until the new "system" is fully implemented while Ben just gets older in the meantime. That's my issue with changing at this point. I could see blowing things up and starting over if we were going 2-14/3-13, but we haven't been.

Hawkman

12-01-2015, 06:16 PM

I'm sure he has good candidates who have never been HC.

Sean Payton could be available too, but Payton will need someone to built a good defense.

But this is certain that it will not happen, since Tomlin will not be fired.......

Good candidates don't grow on trees. Whisenhunt was a good candidate. He had one good season, and that's because he had Kurt Warner. Where is he now?? Fired in mid season. (do you want Tomlin to be fired right now...and say Haley take over?) Lebeau is a defensive mastermind, but sucked as a HC. Arians seems to be a better HC than an OC, maybe because he has total control. (never liked him as the OC for the Steelers).

Don't get me wrong, I can bitch about Tomlin with the best of you, and he makes some boneheaded decisions, but I'm far from throwing him to the curb. In fact, my biggest complaint about Tomlin is how unmotivated he seems to have the players for the first game of the season. It's like we need a Steelers Pep rally the night before.