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hawaiiansteeler
11-29-2015, 08:08 PM
Decisions backfire in Steelers' loss in Seattle

By Mark Kaboly
Sunday, Nov. 29, 2015

SEATTLE — Mike Tomlin's decisions to go for it — or not — have left the AFC wild-card race all jumbled up.

Russell Wilson's 80-yard touchdown pass to Doug Baldwin three plays after Tomlin decided against going for it from the 3 on fourth down in five-point game sealed the outcome as the Seahawks held on to a rare fourth-quarter lead in beating the Steelers, 39-30, in front of a record crowd of 69,055 at CenturyLink Field.

Seattle (6-5) came into the game losing five times when leading in the fourth quarter.

There wasn't a sixth.

Wilson threw for 345 yards and five touchdowns, three to Baldwin, including the game-clinching one with three minutes left.

Ben Roethlisberger, who left late in the game and was said to be going through the concussion protocol, threw for 456 yards, a touchdown and two costly interceptions as the Steelers (6-5) put up 538 total yards. Markus Wheaton caught nine passes for 201 yards, and Antonio Brown was held to six catches and 51 yards with Richard Sherman watching him.

The Steelers' loss tightened the AFC wild-card race. Four teams are at 6-5 and fighting for the two spots. The Chiefs are currently the fifth seed and the Texans the sixth. The Jets are the first team out, with the Steelers falling from fifth to eighth based on their division record.

The Steelers host the Colts on Sunday night before traveling to Cincinnati in two weeks.

Tomlin's curious decisions proved costly.

First, he called for a fake field goal early in the second quarter, when Landry Jones threw the ball toward left tackle Alejandro Villanueva. The pass was intercepted.

The second came when he decided against going for the win late in the game, with the Steelers trailing 32-27 and facing fourth down at the Seattle 3...

to read rest of article:

http://triblive.com/sports/-topstories/9514205-74/steelers-yards-game#ixzz3sw7ZFKYl

86WARD
11-29-2015, 08:16 PM
The game was filled with questionable decisions from this coaching staff.

Fake FG.
Deciding against going for the win.
Two point conversion attempt when up by two.
Playing Blake and Cockring all game.
The constant deep ball downfield.

steelerdude15
11-29-2015, 08:20 PM
The game was filled with questionable decisions from this coaching staff.

Fake FG.
Deciding against going for the win.
Two point conversion attempt when up by two.
Playing Blake and Cockring all game.
The constant deep ball downfield.

At this point in the season, there really isn't anything else the Steelers could do other than play Brandon. The next time any help could arrive is via free agency or the draft when it comes to personnel.

SteelerFanInStl
11-29-2015, 08:21 PM
I'm completely tired of Tomlin.

fansince'76
11-29-2015, 08:21 PM
Can't really argue that this was a pretty poorly coached game.

Shoes
11-29-2015, 08:26 PM
The game was filled with questionable decisions from this coaching staff.

Fake FG.
Deciding against going for the win.
Two point conversion attempt when up by two.
Playing Blake and Cockring all game.
The constant deep ball downfield.


It's never the coaching...just ask Tomlin.

st33lersguy
11-29-2015, 08:26 PM
The "fake fg" (where the steelers changed formations then allowed Seattle to change formations themselves) was so mind-numbingly stupid.

zoneblitzerII
11-29-2015, 08:27 PM
I'm completely tired of Tomlin.

I can't stand him. I see right through the guy. He just doesn't have the right collection of marbles upstairs.

steelerdude15
11-29-2015, 08:28 PM
Here is another complaint I have about Tomlin, especially when it comes to the secondary. Tomlin played defensive back in college and was the defensive backs coach in Tampa Bay when they won their Super Bowl against the Raiders. With so many years of experience in playing the position and coaching the position, why is it that he and Tom Colbert have such a problem eyeing prospective talent at the position and picking up players who aren't good at the position?

Butch
11-29-2015, 08:28 PM
Why do you go for a fake early then not go for the win???

zoneblitzerII
11-29-2015, 08:30 PM
The "fake fg" (where the steelers changed formations then allowed Seattle to change formations themselves) was so mind-numbingly stupid.

I think that play took a half an hour to develop.

Steeldude
11-29-2015, 08:31 PM
But Blake is doing ok. Haha. The guy has to be reminded each week on how to tackle.

The fake FG was bad because of how it was set up.

salamander
11-29-2015, 08:33 PM
I'm officially out of patience for Tomlin. He can take his sweet talking metaphors and his stupid decision making and SHOVE IT.

Shoes
11-29-2015, 08:35 PM
But Blake is doing ok. Haha. The guy has to be reminded each week on how to tackle.

The fake FG was bad because of how it was set up.


Yes but two "slash plays" out of 16 games matters......to Tomlin. Maybe Boykin will get to play in the last game of the year.

Mojouw
11-29-2015, 08:50 PM
Fire Everyone! Bench them All! Ben isn't clutch!

So if the coaching staff is terrible and stupid - who gets the credit for putting the most yards on the Seahawks ever? At home? Against a still (or at least what passes for it these days) stout defense?
Who gets the credit for containing Rawls? Who gets the credit for stonewalling Seattle's pass rush with a makeshift o-line? Who gets the credit for switching the underneath stuff from Miller to Wheaton once Miller got hurt?

Aren't these all coaching decisions also?

Remember all the deep shots that did work? It might be because this team has demonstrated that they will throw deep on any down and distance, from any field position, and in any game situation. If they only threw deep in "conservative" situations - it wouldn't work as well.

Look, all I am saying is that every time the Steelers lose, the same knee-jerk cliches get trotted out. This loss is about one thing and one thing only - there is zero real talent in the secondary after Mitchell. Butler and company did a lot with smoke and mirrors for the first 9 weeks or so, but teams have enough film on what the Steelers are doing to implement schemes specifically designed to expose their weaknesses - namely Blake and Allen. Now the coaching staff will be challenged to come up with a counter move.

I've been on the "Boykin must be doing something wrong" team for some time. I'm off. At this point, what the hell could possibly go wrong? I say play Boykin and Shamarko and hope athleticism makes up for the fact that they are both stupid.

86WARD
11-29-2015, 08:55 PM
The "fake fg" (where the steelers changed formations then allowed Seattle to change formations themselves) was so mind-numbingly stupid.

Not only that but they came out with the personnel after the break. Any good coordinator or coach could see that Landry Jones was on the field...where he normally is not. It was a poorly timed decision. Not only that but the execution was horrible. Villenueva wasn't close to open...at a brief moment he was, but Jones would've had to throw the ball and it would've hit AV in the back. By the time AV turned around, he was covered. Only way that play works is if Jones leads him towards e end zone with the pass and I'm willing to bet if that happens AV doesn't make that catch.

Why go for the win against Baltimore but not have the balls to do it here. He went for 2 when he shouldn't have today...keep your balls on and go for the win. Worst case you don't get it and Seattle is pinned on their own three.

86WARD
11-29-2015, 08:56 PM
Fire Everyone! Bench them All! Ben isn't clutch!

So if the coaching staff is terrible and stupid - who gets the credit for putting the most yards on the Seahawks ever? At home? Against a still (or at least what passes for it these days) stout defense?
Who gets the credit for containing Rawls? Who gets the credit for stonewalling Seattle's pass rush with a makeshift o-line? Who gets the credit for switching the underneath stuff from Miller to Wheaton once Miller got hurt?

Aren't these all coaching decisions also?

Remember all the deep shots that did work? It might be because this team has demonstrated that they will throw deep on any down and distance, from any field position, and in any game situation. If they only threw deep in "conservative" situations - it wouldn't work as well.

Look, all I am saying is that every time the Steelers lose, the same knee-jerk cliches get trotted out. This loss is about one thing and one thing only - there is zero real talent in the secondary after Mitchell. Butler and company did a lot with smoke and mirrors for the first 9 weeks or so, but teams have enough film on what the Steelers are doing to implement schemes specifically designed to expose their weaknesses - namely Blake and Allen. Now the coaching staff will be challenged to come up with a counter move.

I've been on the "Boykin must be doing something wrong" team for some time. I'm off. At this point, what the hell could possibly go wrong? I say play Boykin and Shamarko and hope athleticism makes up for the fact that they are both stupid.

I'd rather go with Boykin and Golden instead of Boykin and Thomas. Thomas just doesn't have it upstairs...as can be seen by his efforts on special teams.

steelerdude15
11-29-2015, 08:59 PM
Fire Everyone! Bench them All! Ben isn't clutch!

So if the coaching staff is terrible and stupid - who gets the credit for putting the most yards on the Seahawks ever? At home? Against a still (or at least what passes for it these days) stout defense?
Who gets the credit for containing Rawls? Who gets the credit for stonewalling Seattle's pass rush with a makeshift o-line? Who gets the credit for switching the underneath stuff from Miller to Wheaton once Miller got hurt?

Aren't these all coaching decisions also?

Remember all the deep shots that did work? It might be because this team has demonstrated that they will throw deep on any down and distance, from any field position, and in any game situation. If they only threw deep in "conservative" situations - it wouldn't work as well.

Look, all I am saying is that every time the Steelers lose, the same knee-jerk cliches get trotted out. This loss is about one thing and one thing only - there is zero real talent in the secondary after Mitchell. Butler and company did a lot with smoke and mirrors for the first 9 weeks or so, but teams have enough film on what the Steelers are doing to implement schemes specifically designed to expose their weaknesses - namely Blake and Allen. Now the coaching staff will be challenged to come up with a counter move.

I've been on the "Boykin must be doing something wrong" team for some time. I'm off. At this point, what the hell could possibly go wrong? I say play Boykin and Shamarko and hope athleticism makes up for the fact that they are both stupid.

I'm with you, give Boykin a shot. Could he be any worse than Blake? There is only one way to find out.

Psycho Ward 86
11-29-2015, 09:04 PM
Fire Everyone! Bench them All! Ben isn't clutch!

So if the coaching staff is terrible and stupid - who gets the credit for putting the most yards on the Seahawks ever? At home? Against a still (or at least what passes for it these days) stout defense?
Who gets the credit for containing Rawls? Who gets the credit for stonewalling Seattle's pass rush with a makeshift o-line? Who gets the credit for switching the underneath stuff from Miller to Wheaton once Miller got hurt?

Aren't these all coaching decisions also?

Remember all the deep shots that did work? It might be because this team has demonstrated that they will throw deep on any down and distance, from any field position, and in any game situation. If they only threw deep in "conservative" situations - it wouldn't work as well.

Look, all I am saying is that every time the Steelers lose, the same knee-jerk cliches get trotted out. This loss is about one thing and one thing only - there is zero real talent in the secondary after Mitchell. Butler and company did a lot with smoke and mirrors for the first 9 weeks or so, but teams have enough film on what the Steelers are doing to implement schemes specifically designed to expose their weaknesses - namely Blake and Allen. Now the coaching staff will be challenged to come up with a counter move.

I've been on the "Boykin must be doing something wrong" team for some time. I'm off. At this point, what the hell could possibly go wrong? I say play Boykin and Shamarko and hope athleticism makes up for the fact that they are both stupid.

Amen!

zoneblitzerII
11-29-2015, 09:13 PM
Fire Everyone! Bench them All! Ben isn't clutch!

So if the coaching staff is terrible and stupid - who gets the credit for putting the most yards on the Seahawks ever? At home? Against a still (or at least what passes for it these days) stout defense?
Who gets the credit for containing Rawls? Who gets the credit for stonewalling Seattle's pass rush with a makeshift o-line? Who gets the credit for switching the underneath stuff from Miller to Wheaton once Miller got hurt?

Aren't these all coaching decisions also?

Remember all the deep shots that did work? It might be because this team has demonstrated that they will throw deep on any down and distance, from any field position, and in any game situation. If they only threw deep in "conservative" situations - it wouldn't work as well.

Look, all I am saying is that every time the Steelers lose, the same knee-jerk cliches get trotted out. This loss is about one thing and one thing only - there is zero real talent in the secondary after Mitchell. Butler and company did a lot with smoke and mirrors for the first 9 weeks or so, but teams have enough film on what the Steelers are doing to implement schemes specifically designed to expose their weaknesses - namely Blake and Allen. Now the coaching staff will be challenged to come up with a counter move.

I've been on the "Boykin must be doing something wrong" team for some time. I'm off. At this point, what the hell could possibly go wrong? I say play Boykin and Shamarko and hope athleticism makes up for the fact that they are both stupid.

Fuck your stupid stats. The only ones that matter are: A. POINTS. and B. Wins and Losses.

Mojouw
11-29-2015, 09:15 PM
Fuck your stupid stats. The only ones that matter are: A. POINTS. and B. Wins and Losses.

Huh? I realize thinking can be hard, but it is generally a useful activity.

oh. wait. FIRE MIKE TOMLIN! HE IS AN IDIOT AND LOOSES ALL THE GAMES!! IF I COACHED THE STEELERS THEY WOULD BE UNDEFEATABLE AND WIN ALL THE POINTS!!! ARRRGGGGHHHH!

Did I get it right that time?

SteelMayhem72
11-29-2015, 09:22 PM
Ive been tired of tomlins boneheaded calls for a long time...if his gut is the only brains he has then its time for a new head coach

Sent from my K013 using Tapatalk

zoneblitzerII
11-29-2015, 09:28 PM
Huh? I realize thinking can be hard, but it is generally a useful activity.

oh. wait. FIRE MIKE TOMLIN! HE IS AN IDIOT AND LOOSES ALL THE GAMES!! IF I COACHED THE STEELERS THEY WOULD BE UNDEFEATABLE AND WIN ALL THE POINTS!!! ARRRGGGGHHHH!

Did I get it right that time?

sick of people enamoured with 459 yards passing and ignoring everything wrong with Ben's game. A lot of plays went missing. Too many turnovers and not enough points. Stats like that mean jack if you can't cash in with TDs to get the win. Ben knows that he blew it several times on the long ball. He had great protection and absolutely blew it with his weak long ball. They can't hit that throw anymore. Time to give him the intermediate throws instead.

fansince'76
11-29-2015, 09:34 PM
sick of people enamoured with 459 yards passing and ignoring everything wrong with Ben's game. A lot of plays went missing. Too many turnovers and not enough points. Stats like that mean jack if you can't cash in with TDs to get the win. Ben knows that he blew it several times on the long ball. He had great protection and absolutely blew it with his weak long ball. They can't hit that throw anymore. Time to give him the intermediate throws instead.

You DO realize those are low percentage passes, right? :coffee:

Mojouw
11-29-2015, 09:34 PM
sick of people enamoured with 459 yards passing and ignoring everything wrong with Ben's game. A lot of plays went missing. Too many turnovers and not enough points. Stats like that mean jack if you can't cash in with TDs to get the win. Ben knows that he blew it several times on the long ball. He had great protection and absolutely blew it with his weak long ball. They can't hit that throw anymore. Time to give him the intermediate throws instead.

We must be watching different games, played by a different team, with a different QB. I'm not going to even argue. It just isn't worth it. You have a preconceived idea and will never be swayed from it.

SteelMayhem72
11-29-2015, 09:34 PM
sick of people enamoured with 459 yards passing and ignoring everything wrong with Ben's game. A lot of plays went missing. Too many turnovers and not enough points. Stats like that mean jack if you can't cash in with TDs to get the win. Ben knows that he blew it several times on the long ball. He had great protection and absolutely blew it with his weak long ball. They can't hit that throw anymore. Time to give him the intermediate throws instead.
I agree for the most part...they just force the deep ball too much. We used to dink and dunk and that was our strength that would open up the long ball. Ever since bell went out they dont seem to have as much faith in williams and imo williams has been more than adequate back up. Why they dont involve him more is beyond me. Tomlin shouldnt live in his fears with williams. Im all for using him more

Sent from my K013 using Tapatalk

teegre
11-29-2015, 10:21 PM
Ever since bell went out they dont seem to have as much faith in williams and imo williams has been more than adequate back up. Why they dont involve him more is beyond me. Tomlin shouldnt live in his fears with williams. Im all for using him more

Serious question:
Did you watch the game?

MrPgh
11-29-2015, 10:23 PM
If you want to complain about Ben, don't hold the 2nd INT against him. Completely blown non-call by the refs.

Shoes
11-29-2015, 10:25 PM
Column: Mike Tomlin Chose To Live In His Fears Sunday With His “Calculated Risk”

BY DAVE BRYAN (http://www.steelersdepot.com/author/davebryan/) NOVEMBER 29, 2015 AT 09:40 PM

For a head coach who claims he never lives in his fears, Pittsburgh Steelers sideline boss Mike Tomlin sure seemed to do just that late in Sunday’s loss to the Seattle Seahawks.
With the Steelers trailing the Seahawks 32-27 with 3:02 left in the game, Tomlin chose to kick a field goal instead of letting his offense attempt to take the lead on 4th down from the 3-yard-line.
Had the Steelers defense showed during the Seahawks previous two offensive possessions that they could prevent quarterback Russell Wilson from ripping them apart through the air, perhaps I could then understand Tomlin’s decision to kick a field goal that late in the game.
Remember, this is a head coach who always seems to like to go for two after touchdowns and one who has also allowed his offense to stay on the field on fourth downs a total of 9 times so far this season entering Sunday’s game. This wasn’t fourth and goal from 6 or 7 yard-line mind you, it was from the 3, which is only one yard more than a two-point conversion.
Additionally, this is a head coach who chose to run a fake field goal earlier in the game that resulted in Landry Jones being intercepted by Seahawks cornerback Jeremy Lane on a pass intended for all people, tackle Alejandro Villanueva.
“I called a fake field goal that was unsuccessful. I own that,” said Tomlin after the game.
Tomlin went on to say that his decision to kick the late field goal had nothing to do with the health of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who may have suffered a concussion due to a hit from Seahawks defensive end Michael Bennett earlier in that drive.
“We just need to get a stop,” Tomlin said when continuing to explain his decision to kick the field goal. “I felt comfortable with our ability to do it. Obviously we didn’t, but it was a calculated risk you take during football games. It was a five-point game at that point and just wanted to give the guys an opportunity to take the points and maybe win it.”
Actually, a calculated risk in that situation would have been to let his offense go for it on fourth down instead of kicking a field goal. Had they failed to score on that play, at least the Seahawks offense would’ve been pinned deep in their own end with Tomlin still having two timeouts at his disposal. His trust would’ve still been in his defense at that point and had the unit responded with a three and out, his offense likely would’ve had one last shot to win the game with a touchdown with more than enough time left on the clock.


http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/11/steelers-seahawks-mike-tomlin-live-in-his-fears/

teegre
11-29-2015, 10:49 PM
The game was filled with questionable decisions from this coaching staff.

Fake FG.
Deciding against going for the win.
Two point conversion attempt when up by two.
Playing Blake and Cockring all game.
The constant deep ball downfield.

FAKE FG:
If Jones throws it immediately after he rolls right, Villanueva is open. Jones hesitates and waits for Villanueva to come open... and then he throws the ball. It was a timing route, and Jones hesitated, which allowed Seattle to react.

FG AT THE END:
Mathematically, you kick the FG, and you have 3:00 left. You use your time outs, and if your defense holds them, you have 2:00 left to drive 50 yards to kick the game-winning FG. Alas, they allowed Seattle to convert that 3rd down (for an 80-yard TD).

GOING FOR 2:
I like being up by 4, that way we're always either tied or up by 1 (as opposed to being down by 1).

DEEP BALLS:
Ben underthrew Bryant for a TD on one. Sherman was allowed to mug AB on another. People are afraid to challenge Seattle's secondary. Pittsburgh hit three deep passes (40+ yards) on them... and no other team has had two deep passes this season. Summation: it worked pretty well.



BLAKE/BOYKIN:
I agree 100%.

MrPgh
11-29-2015, 11:03 PM
The Blake/Boykin thing moving forward is going to say a lot about the Steelers the remainder of the regular season. If Blake continues to play, then we know there is no accountability in the organization.

steelreserve
11-29-2015, 11:14 PM
Tomlin went on to say that his decision to kick the late field goal had nothing to do with the health of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who may have suffered a concussion due to a hit from Seahawks defensive end Michael Bennett earlier in that drive.

“We just need to get a stop,” Tomlin said when continuing to explain his decision to kick the field goal. “I felt comfortable with our ability to do it. Obviously we didn’t, but it was a calculated risk you take during football games. It was a five-point game at that point and just wanted to give the guys an opportunity to take the points and maybe win it.”


Hey, guess what, rocket scientist, if you go for the touchdown and fail, YOU'RE STILL IN THE EXACT SAME SITUATION. You need a three-and-out and then the offense needs to score again. Only if you go for it and fail, they're backed up inside their own 5, which limits their play calling a lot.

Either way, getting a TD from the 5 is basically a two-point conversion, a 50-50 proposition or maybe a little better. Relying on the defense to get a three-and-out and then the offense to score is MUCH lower than 50-50. Way more moving parts, and weaker ones. A bonehead decision, and as soon as the FG unit came out I knew we had virtually no chance of winning the game.

Another honorable mention bonehead decision: Jacoby Jones running out the kickoff from five yards deep with 2:01 showing on the clock. Just don't touch it. Way to cost us a timeout, dickhead.

Craic
11-29-2015, 11:15 PM
Fuck your stupid stats. The only ones that matter are: A. POINTS. and B. Wins and Losses.

Your post beer-bong trailer-dwelling level of analysis makes me glad you didn't decide to be a doctor:


"He has a pulse and he's breathing! He's okay!"

"But doctor, he was wheeled in carrying his leg!"

"Screw your stupid stats! I told you the only two that matter!"


And, thank the Lord above you're not a TSA agent.


"Go ahead and step on through, sir."

"Wait!" says the supervisor. "He's carrying a five foot machete!"

"No, no, see . . . according to the stats, the only thing that matters is if he's carrying a gun or a bomb!"

"Oh, you're right. Please, step on through sir!"

I shudder to ponder a job as an electrician


"Alright, we're done here."

"Done?" yells the customer. "I can't bring metal within five feet of the outlet or the damn things arcs and kills the person."

"Well, you see this voltmeter, sir? It says everything's fine, and that's the only stat that matters.

Please, this isn't playground football. Statistics like total yards, yards after catch, yards per down, yards per carry, targets vs. catch, targets per game, catch per game, etc. etc. are the underlying stats that tell us how sick the patient is, it's the vital signs that help coaches and fans alike assess what and how much needs to be done to fix a problem, it's the warning signs that trouble may be coming even if we don't normally look for them, it's the total picture that tells us there may be good electricity, but something's still broken.

(and note - I did not infer you lived in a trailer, but your level of analysis equaled the caricature.)

SteelMayhem72
11-29-2015, 11:22 PM
Serious question:
Did you watch the game?
Serious question...did we run the ball enough???

teegre
11-29-2015, 11:25 PM
Serious question...did we run the ball enough???

Your point was that the Steelers don't involve DW enough.

DW had 117 total yards from scrimmage, and a TD. :huh:

SteelMayhem72
11-29-2015, 11:30 PM
Your point was that the Steelers don't untilize DW enough.

DW had 117 total yards from scrimmage, and a TD. :huh:
Ok smart guy...how many times did ben drop back and pass? Williams was not used enough no matter what you say...they should be doing more screens with him as well instead of wr screens...ben is something like 12-30 in his career when he attempts to throw as many times as he did today...remember BALANCE

teegre
11-29-2015, 11:37 PM
Ok smart guy...how many times did ben drop back and pass? Williams was not used enough no matter what you say...they should be doing more screens with him as well instead of wr screens...ben is something like 12-30 in his career when he attempts to throw as many times as he did today...remember BALANCE

Smart guy... :rofl2: okay.

117 yards from your RB is basically what Bell was averaging (125 ypg). :huh:

If you truly think that this game was lost because of that 8-yard differential (and not because of the secondary), then I'm not sure what to tell you...

Craic
11-29-2015, 11:38 PM
Smart guy... :rofl2: okay.

117 yards from your RB is basically what Bell was averaging (125 ypg). :huh:

If you truly think that this game was lost because of that 8-yard differential (and not because of the secondary), then I'm not sure what to tell you...

he may be saying we didn't run it enough, meaning we didn't use the clock right. I was wondering that as well, but don't think it's why we lost.

Mojouw
11-29-2015, 11:40 PM
Ok smart guy...how many times did ben drop back and pass? Williams was not used enough no matter what you say...they should be doing more screens with him as well instead of wr screens...ben is something like 12-30 in his career when he attempts to throw as many times as he did today...remember BALANCE

Balance for the sake of balance is not really anything worth shooting for either.

Steelers sustained multiple long drives and actually "won" the time of possession issue. If you are just carving up another team's secondary and their pass rush can't touch you, why in the heck should you stop?

Not like Mike Tyson really had a ton of different punches and boxing styles to beat you with. But if caught you with that right hook and then uppercut combo - you were done.

The Steelers used their deep and intermediate passing game today as a blunt instrument to repeatedly batter and beat Seattle with. They almost knocked them out with it. How would using the running game really mattered?

SteelMayhem72
11-29-2015, 11:41 PM
he may be saying we didn't run it enough, meaning we didn't use the clock right. I was wondering that as well, but don't think it's why we lost.
Passed way too much...didnt run it enough...should have slowed the game down cause our D was shitting the bed

teegre
11-29-2015, 11:42 PM
he may be saying we didn't run it enough, meaning we didn't use the clock right. I was wondering that as well, but don't think it's why we lost.

Sometimes, a checkdown to the RB is just as good as a run. Bell has shown us that.

IMO they used DW perfectly.

SteelMayhem72
11-29-2015, 11:44 PM
Charlie batch said the exact same thing earlier...thats where i got the record 12-30 in bens career when he has that many attempts

Mojouw
11-29-2015, 11:44 PM
Passed way too much...didnt run it enough...should have slowed the game down cause our D was shitting the bed

they had the ball for 32 minutes and ran 16 more plays. They were in control of the pace of this game.

It was the defense that couldn't generate a stop or a turnover. Nothing the offense would have done, aside from scoring about 45-60 points would have made a difference.

SteelMayhem72
11-29-2015, 11:45 PM
Sometimes, a checkdown to the RB is just as good as a run. Bell has shown us that.

IMO they used DW perfectly.
Thats why i also said they need to do more rb screens instead of wr screens

MrPgh
11-29-2015, 11:47 PM
Charlie batch said the exact same thing earlier...thats where i got the record 12-30 in bens career when he has that many attempts

That's very subjective. Usually when the defense stinks the offense is forced to do more.

This isn't 1973 anymore. Run-pass ratio has become a useless stat in the NFL. The rules and officiating favor passing to a very high degree.

SteelMayhem72
11-29-2015, 11:49 PM
they had the ball for 32 minutes and ran 16 more plays. They were in control of the pace of this game.

It was the defense that couldn't generate a stop or a turnover. Nothing the offense would have done, aside from scoring about 45-60 points would have made a difference.
Still when you control the clock more and slow the pace of the game down it does alter their play calling to a degree

teegre
11-29-2015, 11:50 PM
Four deep passes that changed the game:

AB mugged. No PI called.
Bryant mugged. No PI called.
Bryant beats Shead by 7 yards. Pass is underthrown.
AB mugged. No PI called... and, an INT.

Those aren't bad play calls. Those are three non-calls and one poorly executed play.

fansince'76
11-29-2015, 11:52 PM
Four deep passes that changed the game:

AB mugged. No PI called.
Bryant mugged. No PI called.
Bryant beats Shead by 7 yards. Pass is underthrown.
AB mugged. No PI called... and, an INT.

Those aren't bad play calls. Those are three non-calls and one poorly executed play.

This was by far the worst one. He KNOCKED BROWN DOWN, for Christ's sake, and well past the 5-yard bump zone.

SteelMayhem72
11-29-2015, 11:54 PM
That's very subjective. Usually when the defense stinks the offense is forced to do more.

This isn't 1973 anymore. Run-pass ratio has become a useless stat in the NFL. The rules and officiating favor passing to a very high degree.
Well in the steelers case when we are more balanced we are more victorious...lot of teams that way...you have to have somewhat of a running game...run/pass ratio is still VERY relevant

teegre
11-29-2015, 11:54 PM
This was by far the worst one. He KNOCKED BROWN DOWN, for Christ's sake, and well past the 5-yard bump zone.

Amen.

The talking heads of NFL Network was praising Sherman for being so physical with AB. As they are saying this, they are showing Sherman knocking into AB a full 17 yards downfield.

MrPgh
11-29-2015, 11:57 PM
Well in the steelers case when we are more balanced we are more victorious...lot of teams that way...you have to have somewhat of a running game...run/pass ratio is still VERY relevant

Maybe that's how you want the NFL to be, but it isn't anymore.

Mojouw
11-30-2015, 12:01 AM
Well in the steelers case when we are more balanced we are more victorious...lot of teams that way...you have to have somewhat of a running game...run/pass ratio is still VERY relevant

Correlation is not causation. The Steelers are more balanced in victories because they have used the pass game to get a lead and then rack up run plays at the end of the game. The balance is not the cause of the victory, but a reflection of the passing game that got them a big lead.

Salary cap football. You don't pay your "franchise QB" 20+ million per year to turn around and hand off 25-30 times per game.

katmandu
11-30-2015, 12:08 AM
Four deep passes that changed the game:

AB mugged. No PI called.
Bryant mugged. No PI called.
Bryant beats Shead by 7 yards. Pass is underthrown.
AB mugged. No PI called... and, an INT.

Those aren't bad play calls. Those are three non-calls and one poorly executed play.Don't you know that Sherman is the Golden Boy Defense version of Tom Brady ?

The Refs are Star-struck by them and refuse to call anything on them.

SteelMayhem72
11-30-2015, 12:11 AM
Correlation is not causation. The Steelers are more balanced in victories because they have used the pass game to get a lead and then rack up run plays at the end of the game. The balance is not the cause of the victory, but a reflection of the passing game that got them a big lead.

Salary cap football. You don't pay your "franchise QB" 20+ million per year to turn around and hand off 25-30 times per game.
Ok...agree to disagree...i agree with charlie batch on this one...he talked about in pretty great detail earlier...convinced me

fansince'76
11-30-2015, 12:15 AM
I think they need to begin to exercise more patience on offense, rein in the long low percentage passes a bit and start taking what the defense gives them a bit more.

Steelman
11-30-2015, 12:22 AM
I think they need to begin to exercise more patience on offense, rein in the long low percentage passes a bit and start taking what the defense gives them a bit more.

This. It seems like Haley's completely enamored with the deep pass since Ben returned. We have some of the fastest receivers in the NFL, there are better ways to get the ball in their hands in space.

fansince'76
11-30-2015, 12:24 AM
This. It seems like Haley's completely enamored with the deep pass since Ben returned. We have some of the fastest receivers in the NFL, there are better ways to get the ball in their hands in space.

I gotta say I do love the deep ball, but they take long shots way too often at this point. They were doing quite a bit of damage underneath with Heath until he went out and then it seemed like it was bombs away.

teegre
11-30-2015, 12:33 AM
I think they need to begin to exercise more patience on offense, rein in the long low percentage passes a bit and start taking what the defense gives them a bit more.

Allow me to convince you...

1. Those long throws forced the CBs to play back. Then, BB three short.

2. BB hit three passes of 40+ yards. No other team has two long passes against Seattle.

3. See post #47.

SUMMATION:
When BB goes deep, it works better than any other team. And, it softens up the underneath routes.

steelreserve
11-30-2015, 12:36 AM
There was nothing wrong with the long passes except that Bryant let a couple of them clang off his hands. If he catches them like last season, the offense just might have put up 45 or 50 points and won in spite of all the shitty defense.

teegre
11-30-2015, 12:39 AM
There was nothing wrong with the long passes except that Bryant let a couple of them clang off his hands. If he catches them like last season, the offense just might have put up 45 or 50 points and won in spite of all the shitty defense.

Spot on.

Plus, as I mentioned in post #47, three of the long passes should have drawn PIs (first downs) and another was absolutely a missed opportunity for a TD.

steelreserve
11-30-2015, 12:53 AM
Spot on.

Plus, as I mentioned in post #47, three of the long passes should have drawn PIs (first downs) and another was absolutely a missed opportunity for a TD.


Yeah, I don't feel good about long PI calls even when they go our way, but fuck the Seahawks; I'd take them.

Either way, I don't think there's much room for criticizing the offense. They scored 30 points and not because of lucky field position or anything; they earned that shit. The long passes weren't forced or badly thrown.

If people want to talk about questionable decisions, there were others that cost us up to a 10-point swing and possibly the game, and the same could be said for unlucky breaks. However, the main reason we lost was because our defensive backfield is the equivalent of a Wesley Willis song. Scott, Flowers and Washington have got some serious competition.

BigBen2004
11-30-2015, 12:54 AM
At this point, where do you all see this team going? They're at a crossroads.

You own this loss, dig your feet in and play your best ball
Or
You allow it to demoralize you, eat at you, and ruin your confidence.

Which way do you see them heading?
I personally believe they'll beat Indianapolis Sunday night.
However, will it matter if they can't string wins together?

steelreserve
11-30-2015, 01:09 AM
At this point, where do you all see this team going? They're at a crossroads.

You own this loss, dig your feet in and play your best ball
Or
You allow it to demoralize you, eat at you, and ruin your confidence.

Which way do you see them heading?
I personally believe they'll beat Indianapolis Sunday night.
However, will it matter if they can't string wins together?


I don't think it was a demoralizing loss, just incredibly frustrating.

At this point in the season, we know what we have: With Ben healthy, we know the offense is going to score around 30 points and give them a chance at winning any game. The defense is completely at the mercy of whether the opponent's offense decides to show up or not.

That's good enough to win more often than not. We're probably carrying about two more losses than we ought to right now because of a combination of bad breaks and dubious choices. Whether we beat Indy depends a lot on both of those things. Will Ben be healthy? If not, do we run a regular offense, or the Haley Turtle? Do we play a regular semi-aggressive defense, or the sit-back where we telegraph the four rushers and forget to cover the tight end?

Of course, the above has been about three-quarters of our games this season. Really only three games where we've entered the week in something resembling a normal state of affairs, and for that matter we were without Bell for those games too. Have to give the players credit for hanging in there, but man, has it been frustrating as a fan.

Mojouw
11-30-2015, 01:51 AM
I think they are playing their best ball. That is the whole problem. This roster is still being rebuilt on defense and it isn't all the way there yet. They have about 1/4 or 1/3 of a decent secondary. And 3/4 to 2/3 of one of the worst in football.

But, hey, it could be the Saints. Have extremely talented football players eating up TONS of cap space and STILL have the worst secondary in football. Now - that is a problem.

86WARD
11-30-2015, 05:43 AM
FAKE FG:
If Jones throws it immediately after he rolls right, Villanueva is open. Jones hesitates and waits for Villanueva to come open... and then he throws the ball. It was a timing route, and Jones hesitated, which allowed Seattle to react.

FG AT THE END:
Mathematically, you kick the FG, and you have 3:00 left. You use your time outs, and if your defense holds them, you have 2:00 left to drive 50 yards to kick the game-winning FG. Alas, they allowed Seattle to convert that 3rd down (for an 80-yard TD).

GOING FOR 2:
I like being up by 4, that way we're always either tied or up by 1 (as opposed to being down by 1).

DEEP BALLS:
Ben underthrew Bryant for a TD on one. Sherman was allowed to mug AB on another. People are afraid to challenge Seattle's secondary. Pittsburgh hit three deep passes (40+ yards) on them... and no other team has had two deep passes this season. Summation: it worked pretty well.



BLAKE/BOYKIN:
I agree 100%.

AV was open, wasn't looking. He's not catching a "timing route." That was a terribly placed call. Seattle totally figured it out with Jones on the field and we're obviously prepared for it.

stillers4me
11-30-2015, 07:43 AM
I avoided this place all last night............:heh: Fire Tomlin! :alcohol:

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Safe+yet+i+figured+a+cat+picture+was+the+best_ef37 c8_5471416.jpg

TD's & Beer
11-30-2015, 08:08 AM
Steelers botch game late

Two all-too-common occurrences this season for the Pittsburgh Steelers: Ben Roethlisberger injuries and Mike Tomlin coaching decisions.

On Sunday, the two things intertwined.

The Steelers and Seattle Seahawks, two teams once noted for their vaunted defenses, were embroiled in an offensive shootout Sunday with the Steelers down 32-27 with under four minutes remaining and facing a third-and-goal situation at the Seattle 10-yard line.

Roethlisberger — who threw for 456 yards, the most the Seahawks ever have allowed — scrambled after not being able to find an open receiver. He took it down to the 3-yard line, making it fouth-and-goal with two timeouts left, but taking a big hit from Seahawks linebacker K.J. Wright.

Tomlin opted to kick the field goal to make it a 32-30 Seahawks lead with 3:02 left. This is the same coach, mind you, who goes for two-point conversions just for the heck of it. Who attempted one of the more ridiculous fake field goals in this game you might ever see. Who went for it twice on fourth down in a loss to the Baltimore Ravens this season with Mike Vick at quaterback.

But with Roethlisberger shredding up the Seahawks, Tomlin opted for the three points. We soon found out part of the reason why he might have balked at going for it on fourth. Roethlisberger would be taken to the locker room under the concussion protocol soon after the Seahawks sealed the game a minute later with an 80-yard TD pass to Doug Baldwin.

Landry Jones replaced Roethlisberger on the Steelers' final possession and was picked to cap off the Seahawks' victory.

You can understand a coach feeling iffy about his backup quarterback coming off the bench cold to attempt a fourth-down conversion with the game on the line. But did Tomlin have another choice? It's not as if he legitimately trusted his defense, which allowed 7.4 yards per play and created zero turnovers in the game, even with no Marshawn Lynch or Jimmy Graham (who suffered a bad-looking knee injury) on the field.

Tomlin is a riverboat gambler who trusts his gut over any coaching cheat sheet. He flies in the face of convention, and it sometimes pays off. The Steelers are a gutsy, dangerous team, reflective of their coach's personality.

But sometimes he turns meek unexpectedly. it has to be maddening for a team to see its coach change on the fly like this, even with mitigating circumstances dictating the game flow. That's a situation where kicking the field goal is tantamount to playing to lose, passing up a two-point-conversion-length play to kick a rather meaningless field goal. It makes little coaching sense.

The Steelers lost a game and — again — lost their quarterback to injury. This will be tough for the Steelers to swallow.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/ben-roethlisberger-in-concussion-protocol-as-steelers-botch-game-late-011123901.html

---------------------

The riverboat gambler be up the creek without a paddle

zulater
11-30-2015, 08:51 AM
On second thought I think the fake fg was more costly than settling for the fg late in the game. That interception on the fake fg was a 10 point swing. That's the game right there folks. Don't get me wrong, we could have missed the kick, they could have returned the resulting kickoff for a td etc.. But most likely we go up 6-0 with all the momentum on our side.

Now getting to the end of the game. I still wish they would have gone for it, but I can see the argument against. And funny enough probably not getting the TD (if Ben would have been able to return) might have been better than getting the TD. Here's why. Say they get the TD. So now it's 33-32. Obviously you go for the 2 point conversion (this is tricky, would Ben still have self reported concussion symptoms if we get the TD?) If you get the 2 you're up by 3, with the Seahawks getting the ball back only having to score a fg to send the game into OT. Of course if you miss the 2 pointer the fg gets them a regulation win. So does anyone believe the way our defense played yesterday that if we get the TD with the Seahawks getting the ball back with time outs, and the two minute warning in their pocket that at best we end up in OT? ( dependent on the success or failure of the 2 point conversion.

Now lets say they fail on 4th down. The Seahawks get the ball most likely at the 3 yard line or close to it ( a sack for example) That's tough sledding down there,even against our defense. Chances are good we force the punt and take the ball back close to midfield, probably with more than 2 minutes left.or there around, needing a td for the win. In other words score and leave no time for retaliation.

So getting back to what we did. All we had to do was get off the field on 3rd down and we get the ball back in good field position with a chance to score a game winning fg to end the game. With Tomlin's scenario he correctly guessed the Seahawks would play the first downs conservative. Playing with the lead that's what you do. So he put his defense in a position that they only had to make one effing play! Stop a 3rd and long, and you've got an excellent chance to be in position to take the game.

So in conclusion what I'm saying is given the now known fact that Ben was concussed we probably aren't winning this game no matter how Tomlin played it. But had Ben continued to play (as Tomlin would have then suspected) the odds for what he did actually might have been better than scoring the TD with that much clock left, particularly if you miss the 2 point conversion attempt. Nothing is worse than losing a game where you see a team playing off the last 45 seconds of the clock to set up a winning fg attempt. I wonder if somewhere in the back of Tomlin's mind that's why he chose the path that he did? Again the way he did it he put the defense in position where they likely could force a 3 and out and only have to defend one pass attempt. The difference how a team plays on offense defending a small lead as opposed to playing aggresivley with a small deficit with time and time outs where chances were good they could have delivered a knock out blow with your best unit (offense) stuck helplessly on the sidelines.

Hope I didn't confuse you there,because I think I may have confused myself a few times. :lol:

Anyway given that Ben did get concussed we were probably going to lose that game no matter what Tomlin decided on that play.

Steeldude
11-30-2015, 09:16 AM
I gotta say I do love the deep ball, but they take long shots way too often at this point. They were doing quite a bit of damage underneath with Heath until he went out and then it seemed like it was bombs away.

Reminds me of Al Davis ball.

I said awhile back it seems to me Tomlin likes to force a splash play to happen.

hawaiiansteeler
11-30-2015, 12:43 PM
On second thought I think the fake fg was more costly than settling for the fg late in the game. That interception on the fake fg was a 10 point swing. That's the game right there folks.

I agree.

30 + 3 = 33 points
39 - 7 = 32 points

teegre
11-30-2015, 02:38 PM
Down by 2 points.

They had Seattle in third-&-nine.

If they make that stop, they have 2:20 left to drive down (50 yards) for the game-winning FG.

SUMMATION:
It is as simple as that.

86WARD
11-30-2015, 02:46 PM
Down by 2 points.

They had Seattle in third-&-nine.

If they make that stop, they have 2:20 left to drive down (50 yards) for the game-winning FG.

SUMMATION:
It is as simple as that.

It really is that simple. Cut through all the bull shit, the bad coaching, the interceptions, the shit the NFL calls officials and its that simple...

zulater
11-30-2015, 03:01 PM
Down by 2 points.

They had Seattle in third-&-nine.

If they make that stop, they have 2:20 left to drive down (50 yards) for the game-winning FG.

SUMMATION:
It is as simple as that.

You can make an argument either way. The argument against is the defense wasn't able to make a stop the previous two possessions so why do you expect them to there? Also with our offense one play from the 3 yard line should be at worst a 50/50 proposition. And of course if you fail pinning the Seahawks inside their own 5 to start the ensuing possession isn't a bad thing either. In fact that might have been the Steelers best chance to win. Because if we score the td on 4th down is anyone surprised if the defense gives up a score right back to the Seahags?

I wont condemn Tomlin's decision. It almost worked.But I can see where people question it.

ALLD
11-30-2015, 03:46 PM
If we go 8-8 or worse I would dump Tomlin. The guy is more concerned about his position in football history rather than making it.

smokin3000gt
11-30-2015, 04:22 PM
Fuck your stupid stats. The only ones that matter are: A. POINTS. and B. Wins and Losses.


You seem like a very intelligent and classy individual. I hope your future posts are as thought out as the above post.

steelreserve
11-30-2015, 05:20 PM
Down by 2 points.

They had Seattle in third-&-nine.

If they make that stop, they have 2:20 left to drive down (50 yards) for the game-winning FG.

SUMMATION:
It is as simple as that.


I'd say stopping them on 3rd-and-9 was about a 50-50 chance based on giving up 7.4 yards per play - probably worse than that considering we'd just allowed three touchdowns in the last four drives, encompassing a total of 12 plays.

Then driving 50 yards was exactly a 50-50 chance based on our previous 12 drives in the game, so a 25% chance overall if we're being generous to our defense.

Then kicking the field goal itself, which would be anywhere from 50-90% depending on how close we got. So somewhere between a 12% and 22% chance of winning.

Trying for a touchdown from inside the 5 was a 50-50 chance.

Of course, we didn't get past the first one because our defense was giving the shit-tastic performance of their lives and used that opportunity to put the exclamation point on it.

I know, I know, we could've scored a TD and the defense could've blown it anyway, or we could've tried and failed (and been in more or less the same situation as kicking the FG), but the fact is the coach bet it all on a unit that was getting its ass handed to it because of an obvious weak spot. And what happened? The opponent said "Thank you very much" and went right at the weak spot again, and won the game.

hawaiiansteeler
11-30-2015, 05:25 PM
You seem like a very intelligent and classy individual. I hope your future posts are as thought out as the above post.

he'll need time to recover from the brain muscle he pulled from thinking so hard...

j-d-s
11-30-2015, 06:40 PM
Not only that but they came out with the personnel after the break. Any good coordinator or coach could see that Landry Jones was on the field...where he normally is not. It was a poorly timed decision. Not only that but the execution was horrible. Villenueva wasn't close to open...at a brief moment he was, but Jones would've had to throw the ball and it would've hit AV in the back. By the time AV turned around, he was covered. Only way that play works is if Jones leads him towards e end zone with the pass and I'm willing to bet if that happens AV doesn't make that catch.

Why go for the win against Baltimore but not have the balls to do it here. He went for 2 when he shouldn't have today...keep your balls on and go for the win. Worst case you don't get it and Seattle is pinned on their own three.

I think this is the real problem. Going for a fake FG on the first play of the quarter is just stupid. If it is during a normal play, they might not be able to substitute, but that fake probably was never designed for use after a break. I would like though to have Landry as our regular holder, because that way he is on the field for normal field goals.

But what I don't get is why Landry threw it to Villanueva of all people. He is a Lineman. There was Heath in there and he was open, he certainly would've converted there.

tube517
11-30-2015, 06:45 PM
I think this is the real problem. Going for a fake FG on the first play of the quarter is just stupid. If it is during a normal play, they might not be able to substitute, but that fake probably was never designed for use after a break. I would like though to have Landry as our regular holder, because that way he is on the field for normal field goals.

But what I don't get is why Landry threw it to Villanueva of all people. He is a Lineman. There was Heath in there and he was open, he certainly would've converted there.

Villanueva was a TE in college. He threw it too late. But, a terrible call at that point in time. The play developed way too slow as Landry went back for the snap. He threw it late. They knew something was up when he came into hold. Just a disaster.

teegre
11-30-2015, 07:37 PM
Good points about going for it on fourth down. Lots of logic.


I guess my point was: whether or not they went for it on fourth down, or whether Sherman mugged AB, or whether Bryant dropped too many passes, or whether BB underthrew Bryant on a TD, or this, that, or the litany other things that transpired...

...the game still hinged on one play: 3rd-&-9.


[NOTE: I was certain that the defense would nut up, and force a punt. Alas... ]

TD's & Beer
11-30-2015, 07:43 PM
If we go 8-8 or worse I would dump Tomlin.

Hire Les Miles!

He would take it in a heartbeat

st33lersguy
11-30-2015, 08:01 PM
The main problem with Tomlin is the lack of focus that he allows to persist. Of course the terrible personnel decisions that he has made (Cam Thomas still being allowed on the team, trading a 5th round pick for Boykin then sitting him behind possibly the worst CB in the NFL in Antwon Blake who is somehow still allowed to start)

hawaiiansteeler
11-30-2015, 08:14 PM
If we go 8-8 or worse I would dump Tomlin.

do you realize that if the Steelers were to go 8-8 that would mean Tomlin still would not have had a losing season?

the Rooneys would never fire Tomlin if that were the case, they just don't operate that way...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3c/84/36/3c84360c294f5db1f1f7681868b9f55d.jpg

NCSteeler
11-30-2015, 08:18 PM
Just saw a nice stat on the amazing Jeff Fischer, 21 seasons, only 6 winning records. Wow! Tomlin is a total bonehead sometimes, but it could be much worse. Someone needs to force changes in the secondary though, worst in the league , can't argue that the bench is worse


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

hawaiiansteeler
11-30-2015, 10:57 PM
Someone needs to force changes in the secondary though, worst in the league , can't argue that the bench is worse

against the Seahawks Golden played zero snaps on defense while Will Allen played all 64 of them.

Allen had arguably his worst game of the season against Seattle, why not give Golden a try? when Allen was injured I thought Golden filled in very well and to me looked to be an upgrade over the aging Will Allen.

I highly doubt that Will Allen starts for any other NFL team..

86WARD
12-01-2015, 01:31 AM
against the Seahawks Golden played zero snaps on defense while Will Allen played all 64 of them.

Allen had arguably his worst game of the season against Seattle, why not give Golden a try? when Allen was injured I thought Golden filled in very well and to me looked to be an upgrade over the aging Will Allen.

I highly doubt that Will Allen starts for any other NFL team..

You'd be hard pressed to see any other Steelers DB not named Mitchell,start for another NFL team...including Gay.

j-d-s
12-01-2015, 04:42 AM
Firing Tomlin won't solve any problems because it is unlikely that his successor would do better than him... there are not many really good coaches in the league who are free and then it also has to work out with the organization. Jim Harbaugh for example is certainly a good coach, but he would be no fit for us and make things only worse here.

The only real option probably would be to promote Todd Haley to HC... but then we need a new OC and that does not seem smart at this point in Ben's career.

hawaiiansteeler
12-01-2015, 05:01 PM
http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-we-don-t-live-in-our-fears-we-live-in-our-hopes-mike-tomlin-53-36-13.jpg

tube517
12-01-2015, 06:36 PM
You'd be hard pressed to see any other Steelers DB not named Mitchell,start for another NFL team...including Gay.

LeBeau would probably take Gay at Tennessee. But, yeah, other than that, I agree.

hawaiiansteeler
12-01-2015, 06:48 PM
Trying for a touchdown from inside the 5 was a 50-50 chance.


something else to consider:

the Steelers are 6 for 9 on 2-point conversions so far this season, which is a conversion rate of 66.7%...

ALLD
12-01-2015, 07:06 PM
I mentioned the trick play using AV at the goal line on a tackle eligible, but never inferred that L Jones should throw him the ball on a fake FG. They just had to force it.

hawaiiansteeler
12-02-2015, 09:51 PM
Gerry Dulac's Steelers chat transcript: 12.2.15

TX_Steeler: The best analogy I heard about Tomlin is he's the guy at the blackjack table who doesn't know basic strategy and hits on 18, splits 10s, etc. Sure, that guy wins a few hands, but ultimately, in the long run, he ends up broke.

Gerry Dulac: Haha. Good analogy

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2015/12/02/Gerry-Dulac-s-Steelers-chat-transcript-12-2-15/stories/201512020179

86WARD
12-03-2015, 02:28 AM
Lol. That's a perfect analogy.

Mojouw
12-03-2015, 08:31 AM
Oddly enough, there is a whole bunch of theory and math research that contends that NEVER kicking is actually the best strategy in football. So that could mean that Tomlin's aggressive fourth down, field goal, and extra point tendencies are ahead of the curve.

Not saying I buy it, but there is a fairly interesting argument to be made.

teegre
12-03-2015, 02:49 PM
I prefer the poker analogy (to blackjack).

Tomlin in plays the game like how I play poker. I've won pots with 2-7 off-suit, because most people won't bet unless they have a pair of jacks or higher. That leaves 2/3 of the possible straights, three of a kinds, and such that aren't being taken advantage of. [NOTE: I almost always come in at least second when my friends & I play... and I've done well in small tournaments, as well as.]

For example, the following has happened to me more times than I can count.

I have a 2-7. I see the flop. I get a 7... and I call the person who raises. Then, I get a 2 on the turn, and another 7 on the river. Boom!!! I have a full house... and best of all, it is a full house that no one would expect me to have, because EVERYONE else in their right mind would fold a 2-7.

I've won with 3-10 off suit... 2-5 suited... 6-8 off suit... et cetera.

Like I said, if I can get to the flop, my percentages of winning go up. That said, obviously, pocket aces has done me in... so has a straight or two. It's not a perfect system, but I'm telling you: going for it when no one expects you to... it works more often than not.

Steel Peon
12-03-2015, 10:32 PM
Tomlin plays the game like how I play poker. I've won pots with 2-7 off-suit, because most people won't bet unless they have a pair of jacks or higher.....best of all, it is a full house that no one would expect me to have, because EVERYONE else in their right mind would fold a 2-7.

Arrgghhh, this is why I hate Texas Hold'em :mad2: At one party in particular I had a full house on the flop, after starting with a pair of ladies in my hand, and I ended up losing to a better full house owned by a guy who bet big on King + 8, unsuited. The flop was 8 + 8 + Q, the turn was K, and the river was K......boy did that make my piss boil.

So......should I hate Tomlin for this? I'm so confused.

Craic
12-04-2015, 12:51 AM
something else to consider:

the Steelers are 6 for 9 on 2-point conversions so far this season, which is a conversion rate of 66.7%...

Yep.

I did find that a curious decision.

teegre
12-04-2015, 06:54 AM
Arrgghhh, this is why I hate Texas Hold'em :mad2: At one party in particular I had a full house on the flop, after starting with a pair of ladies in my hand, and I ended up losing to a better full house owned by a guy who bet big on King + 8, unsuited. The flop was 8 + 8 + Q, the turn was K, and the river was K......boy did that make my piss boil.

So......should I hate Tomlin for this? I'm so confused.

Thats a tough situation. You want to slow play it, to lure him in... when you probably should have bet big to scare him off. That's why it's called "gambling". :lol:

That reminds me of a story...

I'm in a 100 person tournament in Las Vegas. The people at my table are great. As we are waiting for the first deal/waiting for everyone to show up, we all meet & greet, specifically discussing the story behind our poker weights. It's a good vibe.

The first hand is dealt, and I have a jack-queen. The flop comes: jack, jack, queen. Full house!!! I slow play, and the turn comes, and the guy across from me puts in a sizable bet; so, I go all in. He calls. Fast-forward... he had two queens!!!

Me: jack, jack, jack, queen, queen
Him: jack, jack, queen, queen, queen

The guy drops his head, and says: "Oh crap... tough beat." He offers to give me enough for a few antes... as does everyone else at the table. They ask the dealer if it's alright to give me a few chips, so that I can keep playing. (Like I said: a good table.)

Before the dealer can answer, I thank everyone for their kindness... and, point to a table across the room where some idiot is covering both of his eyes and yelling some gibberish. "See that guy, that's my honorary brother. I've spent the past 48 hours in Las Vegas dealing with him. We've gotten kicked off of two cramps tables so far. Do you know how LOUD you have to be to get kicked off of a craps table??? Anyway, I'm going to use this time as a break from him."

Toughest loss of of my life... but, the next hour was great. :rofl2:

ALLD
12-05-2015, 07:15 AM
Tomlin will shortly have his own highlight reel on YouTube of all of his dumb decisions. I can see a fade out as he is standing by the sideline and slightly puts himself into the field of play on that run back.