Stop over-using D Will

[TeeTee]

Tomlin is infamous for "running the wheels" off his main back. That is horse shit and it must end. D Will is a good back, but if you force him to have too many carries he will get hurt.

If we make the playoffs, but end up without an effective back like last year, due to Tomlin not sharing some of the carries and wearing down D Will, Tomlin should he fired.

He should take at least 5-10 touches away from D Will to keep him fresh. We are gonna need him come playoff, or we will limp into the playoffs with no decent back like last year.

Cool Shades must reduce his stupid decisions for us to have a chance.

[polamalubeast]

If we look at the last game against the browns, Williams has not had many carries in this games, but yes I agree, it can be a concern.But even if Williams gets injured because he was overly used, Tomlin will kept his job!

[TeeTee]

I just don't understand the logic of running a back into the ground, and he brags about it like it's something to be proud of. It just pisses me off.

[st33lersguy]

It's not like we have a lot of effective backs that can share carries with him. Also, he hasn't been used that much this season. He has only had more than 20 carrries three times this year including once in the last 8 games. In the 6 game span from St. Louis to Cinci, he had a combined 22 carries and 5 catches. If you add up rush attempts and catches he has 120 on the year, an average of 12 per game. The idea that they have been overusing him especially since last week he ran the ball 17 times, I am not seeing it

[86WARD]

I tend to agree, but who is going to take he carries?

[hawaiiansteeler]

It's not like we have a lot of effective backs that can share carries with him.

TeeTee is absolutely right, we have a tendency to run the wheels off of our feature back and not use our 2nd RB to lighten the load no matter who he is.

take Le'Veon Bell's first game back from suspension this season against the Rams as an example. D-Will had done an outstanding job filling in for Bell the first two games but as soon as Bell returned we gave him 19 carries to only one for D-Will. the next game versus the Ravens, Bell gets 22 carries and D-Will only gets two...

[st33lersguy]

TeeTee is absolutely right, we have a tendency to run the wheels off of our feature back and not use our 2nd RB to lighten the load no matter who he is.

take Le'Veon Bell's first game back from suspension this season against the Rams as an example. D-Will had done an outstanding job filling in for Bell the first two games but as soon as Bell returned we gave him 19 carries to only one for D-Will. the next game versus the Ravens, Bell gets 22 carries and D-Will only gets two...

I get that, but why complain about it now when D-Will hasn't gotten a lot of carries this season, coming off a week where he had 17 carries, and when there is no viable option at no. 2. The time to make this post was when Bell was healthy and D-Will was rotting the bench, not now

[steelreserve]

We have six games to go; at this point it is all down to luck. Williams could get 150 more carries and come out fine. Or, he could get one carry next week and pull his hamstring. Complete roll of the dice. He basically sat out five and a half games already, so there's your reduced workload. And he was only getting about 20 carries a game as a starter, except for the Raiders game. I think it will be fine.

The point is that we had a good backup for Bell to begin with - now that it's his turn, you use him. The Haley Turtle is bad enough with backup QBs; the last thing we need is to extend it to running backs as well.

[ALLD]

I tend to agree, but who is going to take he carries?

Brandon Boykin...

[86WARD]

Brandon Boykin...

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-06/10/16/enhanced/webdr06/anigif_enhanced-buzz-15270-1433966651-5.gif

[lipps83]

Dri Archer is available. That kid is pretty fast.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Brandon Boykin...

yeah, he's still fresh. we can run him until his wheels fall off and at least feel we got something for that 5th round pick we gave up...:thumbsup:

[Mojouw]

Remember when 30 carries was normal use for a RB? The studies show that as long as you don't put your back on pace for 350-400 touches per season you're not really going to "break" the player.

I hardly think that 20-25 touches per game for Deangelo is really crossing in to over-use territory.

Be really interesting to see what Todmann's role is now that the team has had the bye week to get him some serious practice reps. What about Pead? Anything more than an emergency contingency?

[TeeTee]

I get that, but why complain about it now when D-Will hasn't gotten a lot of carries this season, coming off a week where he had 17 carries, and when there is no viable option at no. 2. The time to make this post was when Bell was healthy and D-Will was rotting the bench, not now

The only reason they haven't run D Will ragged yet is game situations didn't allow it. It was even more true when Bell was around and I could have posted the trend then. WTF is in Tomlin's brain that tells him it's better to run your main back into tethers than give another back more touches? It's moronic. As far as options, we bothered to pick up Todman, so why not use him some?

[ALLD]

Sometimes the RB doesn't get warmed up and a game feel until he gets a few carries in a row over several series. But that is still no reason not to give the other guys a few carries unless they are no good or are fumblers which in that case they should not be on the team.

[st33lersguy]

The only reason they haven't run D Will ragged yet is game situations didn't allow it. It was even more true when Bell was around and I could have posted the trend then. WTF is in Tomlin's brain that tells him it's better to run your main back into tethers than give another back more touches? It's moronic. As far as options, we bothered to pick up Todman, so why not use him some?

So why post a title that says "stop" over-using D-Will when you just admitted they haven't done so yet

[GBMelBlount]

Remember when 30 carries was normal use for a RB? The studies show that as long as you don't put your back on pace for 350-400 touches per season you're not really going to "break" the player.

I hardly think that 20-25 touches per game for Deangelo is really crossing in to over-use territory.

Be really interesting to see what Todmann's role is now that the team has had the bye week to get him some serious practice reps. What about Pead? Anything more than an emergency contingency?

At his age it may not take as many carries to wear him out.

[86WARD]

But...Williams is "injury prone"!

[Mojouw]

You play your best players. Take a look at Bell's touches per game (carries + receptions) and he is right in line with other 3 down running backs that are the focal point of their team's offense (Forte, Charles, AP, Murray, Lacy (before he got fat), etc). Bell is better than Williams, so you feed your guy.

This whole running back by committee approach all came about because teams did not want to spend high draft picks on backs and most teams could not find a single player that could be an adequate rusher, a pass blocker, and a receiving threat. So they cobbled together a backfield out of guys that specialized in one or more of those roles. Bell is excellent at ALL of those things. Why take him off the field?

Along a similar line of thought, WIlliams is better than Todman. Why shouldn't he get all 20-25 touches? That is hardly "running the wheels off". I mean, if we are just making up concerns now, then I think we really need to talk about how the Steelers are overusing AB and run the risk of dramatically shortening his career.

[Craic]

I think something else people don't realize is that running the ball has a cumulative affect on both the Running Back and the Defense. I can't tell you how many games I've watched Bettis look like he's getting shut down almost in the first couple quarters, and then he simply railroads people in the third and fourth. Why? Because RBs want to get the touches. They get warmed up and start chugging away like a Diesel engine - the more they work, the more powerful they are. On the opposite end is the defense. All those 1 yard and 2 yard runs in the first and second quarter wears out a defense. It's a whole lot harder to play when you're taking on blockers and RBs, rather than driving into blockers and rushing the QB.

So, giving DW 20-22 runs a game makes complete sense. If it goes much over twenty-five, then if we're up by two scores, I before Todman to come in and finish it out - especially when coming in with fresh legs. But RB by committee throughout the game? No, absolutely not.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I think something else people don't realize is that running the ball has a cumulative affect on both the Running Back and the Defense. I can't tell you how many games I've watched Bettis look like he's getting shut down almost in the first couple quarters, and then he simply railroads people in the third and fourth. Why? Because RBs want to get the touches. They get warmed up and start chugging away like a Diesel engine - the more they work, the more powerful they are. On the opposite end is the defense. All those 1 yard and 2 yard runs in the first and second quarter wears out a defense.

I have the perfect solution:

use all the other RBs for those 1 and 2 yard runs and only use D-Will for runs of 3 yards and longer...:thumbsup:

[fansince'76]

You play your best players.

It really is that simple. The injuries that Bell has suffered (and the broken leg that Willie Parker suffered in 2007 that started the whole "Tomlin is an idiot who doesn't know how to use RBs" meme to begin with) could have happened on their first carry of the season or their 250th carry of the season. They had nothing to do with them being overused.

[TeeTee]

So why post a title that says "stop" over-using D-Will when you just admitted they haven't done so yet

I should have worded it more accurately. I am anticipating his over-use because Tomlin takes some kind of perverse pride in over-using his main back. I am not in favor of total back by committee, I just don't want the #1 back overburdened. It's more than fine to have one back get most of the touches, but it's not OK to give one, single touch to another back all game long. That is a plan of FAIL.

[j-d-s]

We should not let someone else take carries instead of D-Will, because I do not think that any of the other guys will produce more than 2 or 3 yards per carry. Those are just wasted downs. Then it's probably the better option to let Ben throw it downfield (especially since you can get first downs by penalty very easy on those plays) or some weird trick play.

[LLT]

I should have worded it more accurately. I am anticipating his over-use because Tomlin takes some kind of perverse pride in over-using his main back. I am not in favor of total back by committee, I just don't want the #1 back overburdened. It's more than fine to have one back get most of the touches, but it's not OK to give one, single touch to another back all game long. That is a plan of FAIL.

Well...to be accurate...you think EVERY plan Tomlin has is one of failure...so I guess we should take this thread with a grain of salt.

[Mojouw]

How it is a plan of fail? What is the failure? What is the evidence of failure?

None of Bell's injuries are or have been associated with overuse. None occurred in games where he should have been on the bench because the team was winning by multiple scores late.

Last year the failure was not having a capable back-up on the roster. This has been redressed in depth with Williams, Todman, and Pead.

Is playing AP all the snaps a fail? What about Lynch? What about Gurley? This is another joke of a thread with no context or basis.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Bye Week Rethink: DeAngelo Williams and Lightening Load

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/11/bye-week-rethink-deangelo-williams-and-lightening-load/

[Rotorhead]

He has barely been used this year, he will be fresh for the stretch run which is what we need. You play your best players, period. Our passing game is our strength, so I don't see us over using him anyway. This is a terrible argument . . . what would you have Tomiln do, not run at all for the rest of the season so we can lose just enough games to not make the playoffs?

[Mojouw]

Bye Week Rethink: DeAngelo Williams and Lightening Load

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/11/bye-week-rethink-deangelo-williams-and-lightening-load/

And that article is sloppy and plays more than a bit fast and loose with the #'s. For most of Williams career, he split time in the Carolina backfield. So even if he was the starter - others got a decent # of carries. Stewart, Tolbert, etc.

Lazy article. And here I have to go to an actual job to make my house payment. What did that article take, 9 minutes to write? No actual context, no real research into the impact specific #'s of carries have on RB performance and health - despite the fact that there is a TON of just that kind of research available only a short Google search away.

I really like Steelers Depot - I really do. I could not and can not do a ton of what they do. Their film breakdowns and cap stuff is really great. Their draft and training camp articles are top notch. But then they just crap out posts like these. It doesn't even really say anything. Maybe Williams hasn't gone over 275 or so carries ever because since 2008 he has been sharing a backfield with either Jonathan Stewart or Leveon Bell. Weird. Whatever. Is 20-25 carries a game out of line with usage rates across the NFL for other backs Williams age, size, style, etc. Is it historically off for older backs? Does Williams even qualify as old because he had multiple years of lighter use due to time shares? All questions that impact how one might feel about Williams current usage.

[Steel Peon]

Tomlin is infamous for "running the wheels" off his main back.

Agree, especially in DW's case who isn't a young buck at 32 yrs old.

[TeeTee]

Well...to be accurate...you think EVERY plan Tomlin has is one of failure...so I guess we should take this thread with a grain of salt.

Using straw man arguments makes one look depthless.

[Steel Peon]

To comment on the whole Willie Parker running until "The Wheels Come Off" thing, I was always critical of Tomlin making this statement for a few reasons, but not because it meant he overused his RBs. I didn't like that he uttered those words because of how shitty Bruce "Vanilla" Arians' running attack was, which lacked any semblance of design at all. The line blocked like shit the whole time Airhead was OC, and 2007 was no exception with Willie running into one brick wall after another, having to earn every single damn yard himself. What I wanted was for Tomlin to corner Arians in his office and explain politely to him: "Your running plays look like dogshit on toast, so if you waste any more of my man-power trying to pound a square peg into a round hole, I'm going to personally pound a block of salt up your ass.....after I fire you."

[TeeTee]

Agree, especially in DW's case who isn't a young buck at 32 yrs old.

What's worse yet, DW is _already_ our #2 back, he is 32-years-old and if we lose him, it will be akin to last year in the postseason. And yet, Tomlin arrogantly just gives all but 1 touch to DW. Just not too bright of a move.

- - - Updated - - -


He has barely been used this year, he will be fresh for the stretch run which is what we need. You play your best players, period. Our passing game is our strength, so I don't see us over using him anyway. This is a terrible argument . . . what would you have Tomiln do, not run at all for the rest of the season so we can lose just enough games to not make the playoffs?

Why the purposeful confusion? It has already been stated that what many of us would have him do, is not give nearly 100% of all RB touches to one player. NO ONE ever said not to run or never use our best back available. Those are straw man arguments YOU created; no one else did.

[TeeTee]

How it is a plan of fail? What is the failure? What is the evidence of failure?

None of Bell's injuries are or have been associated with overuse. None occurred in games where he should have been on the bench because the team was winning by multiple scores late.

Last year the failure was not having a capable back-up on the roster. This has been redressed in depth with Williams, Todman, and Pead.

Is playing AP all the snaps a fail? What about Lynch? What about Gurley? This is another joke of a thread with no context or basis.

Funny you brought those cases up.

Lynch and Rawis have nearly the same # of touches. What was your point again?

http://www.seahawks.com/team/statistics

[teegre]

Back to the main table at the WSOP...

The Boy Who Cried Wolf has pocket aces, and Strawman has pocket kings. Tomlin has a 2-7 off suit... and he raises. Wow!!!

The flop: ace, king, 2.

TBWCW raises, Strawman re-raises, and Tomlin calls. What is Tomlin doing!?!

The turn is a 7.

Hold on a second here... Tomlin is all in. TBWCW and Strawman call. Talk about excitement!!!

The river is another 2.

Tomlin in wins the hand, the game, and the match!!!

[LLT]

Using straw man arguments makes one look depthless.

I don't think you quite understand the definition of straw man argument....and if you understood the meaning of "depthless" you wouldn't start half of these useless posts that are the equivalent of a pillowcase full of shredded wheat.

Definition of Depthless: When you START a post that specifically states we need to stop "over-using" DeAngelo Williams...then...in the course of the thread...state that we have NOT over used him.

[tube517]

Oakleys are 1/2 off at the 2016 WSOP! Come see our table.

[JKLTO]

Tomlin is infamous for "running the wheels" off his main back. That is horse shit and it must end. D Will is a good back, but if you force him to have too many carries he will get hurt.

If we make the playoffs, but end up without an effective back like last year, due to Tomlin not sharing some of the carries and wearing down D Will, Tomlin should he fired.

He should take at least 5-10 touches away from D Will to keep him fresh. We are gonna need him come playoff, or we will limp into the playoffs with no decent back like last year.

Cool Shades must reduce his stupid decisions for us to have a chance.

TeeTee Translation: Hey look at me pathologically post something about how much I hate Cool Shades!!!

[Mojouw]

Funny you brought those cases up.

Lynch and Rawis have nearly the same # of touches. What was your point again?

http://www.seahawks.com/team/statistics

Context. Man, context. The only reason that Rawls and Lynch have a similar amount of touches this year is that Lynch has suffered through a litany of injuries. In every other season that Lynch was in Seattle he has gotten almost every single last snap at running back.

My point is that almost every NFL team that has a dynamic and supremely talented back that can excel on ALL 3 downs rarely, if ever, takes that back of the field. I threw out some example names that backed up that assertion - barring injury. McCoy is another. Demarco Murray with the Cowboys is yet another. How the Chargers want use Gordon and how the Jags are beginning to use Yeldon are some others.

Clearly, the Steelers believe that Bell belongs in that category. They seem to think that Williams can function in that role as well. It will, as I mentioned earlier, be interesting to see if the extra prep time with the bye causes any shift in how the roles are parceled out between Williams, Todman, and Pead.

In case you are missing it, again, the point is that the Steelers usage patterns with their RBs are completely in line with how other teams are using their "elite" 3 down backs. The problem that the Steelers have traditionally had with their RBs has been the lack of depth behind the main guy, at least since Bettis rode off into the sunset. I also figured that was more where Tomlin's Parker comment was coming from than anything else. This season, they have corrected that problem to an incredible degree with the signings of Williams, Todman, and Pead.

What I am waiting for is your point. We have the following information:

1. The Steelers use of their RBs is not totally OUT of line with other teams. It is on the high side with Bell and they need to seriously consider that. But Williams hasn't been out of control. Yet.
2. It is something worth noticing, but not arguing is a problem. Because right now it isn't. Could it become a problem? Sure. And a plague of locusts could invade Heinz Field. Anything can happen.

You seemed to state that the Steelers and Tomlin (of course - like he rolls in to Haley's office and demands he burn through RBs. COOLSHADES!) need to stop overusing Williams. You then state that it hasn't actually happened yet. Well, which is it? Gross negligence and mismanagement by the team or you just popping off with an unsupported, non-factual, random musing on the internet? Doesn't matter. It can be a very interesting and cool discussion either way - just need to be clear.

Are you worried about something that could happen (and very reasonably so) or are you claiming that something actually has/is happening? They are very different places to start a discussion from.

[JKLTO]

Besides, D-Will was barely played after his first starts and only came back into the fold after Bell's unfortunate injury (which could have happened at ANY time in the season, or even pre-season). I don't see ANY evidence of D-Will being overused and given that he's not been used consistently all season, he should be much less worn out than your typical back. Even more importantly, the Steelers need to win every game that they can from here on out if they want to get the playoffs, and playing their best players will give the Steelers the greatest chance of winning. It isn't rocket science, man!

And for the record, I think Tomlin has been doing a hell of job coaching this team through so much adversity this year. They have a winning record, in spite of all of the suspensions and injuries on key players.

Wouldn't you agree?

[TeeTee]

I don't think you quite understand the definition of straw man argument....and if you understood the meaning of "depthless" you wouldn't start half of these useless posts that are the equivalent of a pillowcase full of shredded wheat.

Definition of Depthless: When you START a post that specifically states we need to stop "over-using" DeAngelo Williams...then...in the course of the thread...state that we have NOT over used him.

Already been thoroughly explained in the context of logic and reason. Your purposeful obtuseness is not a valid reason for me to repeat what has already been explained.

[Count Steeler]

So, in the interest of preventing injuries, Bell should never carry the ball again against the Bengals.

[TeeTee]

I don't think you quite understand the definition of straw man argument....and if you understood the meaning of "depthless" you wouldn't start half of these useless posts that are the equivalent of a pillowcase full of shredded wheat.

Definition of Depthless: When you START a post that specifically states we need to stop "over-using" DeAngelo Williams...then...in the course of the thread...state that we have NOT over used him.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Learning is good.

[JKLTO]

LOL at posting a link to wikipedia, followed by "Learning is good."

[86WARD]

Matt Forte.

[TeeTee]

TeeTee Translation: Hey look at me pathologically post something about how much I hate Cool Shades!!!

Wow, you and your 17 posts possess so much experience in this board. Hilary called; she wants her pant suits back!

[Count Steeler]

Wow, you and your 17 posts possess so much experience in this board. Hilary called; she wants her pant suits back!

Interesting, you want the protection of the COC for new users, yet you have disdain for someone with only 17 posts.

Not to be confused with a straw man argument, just an observation.

[86WARD]

What is COC? Did you forget the K?

[tube517]

What is COC? Did you forget the K?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03039/Friends-joey2_3039017c.jpg :lol:

[Count Steeler]

What is COC? Did you forget the K?

LOL. TeeTee = 2 ts = to tease

[TeeTee]

Context. Man, context. The only reason that Rawls and Lynch have a similar amount of touches this year is that Lynch has suffered through a litany of injuries. In every other season that Lynch was in Seattle he has gotten almost every single last snap at running back.

Has he? Just last year, RBs Michaels and Turbin had 130 touches between them. Basing th touches of other backs other than DW from last game, those total # of touches of other backs for Pgh would annualize to a total of 16 touches.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/2014.htm


My point is that almost every NFL team that has a dynamic and supremely talented back that can excel on ALL 3 downs rarely, if ever, takes that back of the field. I threw out some example names that backed up that assertion - barring injury. McCoy is another. Demarco Murray with the Cowboys is yet another. How the Chargers want use Gordon and how the Jags are beginning to use Yeldon are some others.

I sincerely hope you are joking. Dallas was universally criticized for over-using Murray last year; some commentators have had actually concluded that Jones knew he wasn't going to re-sign him which is why they ran him into the ground. Look, I NEVER asserted that the best back shouldn't get the majority of the touches, but what I DID SAY was giving every single touch to the starting RB other than __________ONE___________ carry, it's a case of Tomlin being a fool. Let's not forget he has gone on record as saying "I will run his legs off" when referring to touches of the starting RB.

[TeeTee]

Interesting, you want the protection of the COC for new users, yet you have disdain for someone with only 17 posts.

Not to be confused with a straw man argument, just an observation.

I am sure you have a point somewhere in there, but, even with my best efforts, I can't tell what it is. And I am not sure where this evidence of "disdain" comes from; I merely pointed out that he sure is acting like he knows the "lay of the land" in here within a period of a total of 17 posts. That's all. Anyhow, I am not informed of what the "protection of the COC" is, but maybe you can clarify.

[Count Steeler]

I am sure you have a point somewhere in there, but, even with my best efforts, I can't tell what it is. And I am not sure where this evidence of "disdain" comes from; I merely pointed out that he sure is acting like he knows the "lay of the land" in here within a period of a total of 17 posts. That's all. Anyhow, I am not informed of what the "protection of the COC" is, but maybe you can clarify.

Go look at your posting history and see the last time you quoted the COC.

Disdain: the feeling that someone or something is unworthy of one's consideration or respect; contempt.

Whether he has 1 post or 20,000 posts he deserves your respect. You don't dismiss his comments just because of his post count.

[TeeTee]

LOL at posting a link to wikipedia, followed by "Learning is good."

OK, cool. Now point out what is specifically inaccurate or erroneous from the site I posted, instead of making mere little cracks lacking substance or evidence. Go ahead and point out the inaccuracies, specifically.

Making blanket statements with no specifics is considered sophomoric. What is erroneous about the definition provided for "straw man argument" from that site? Include specifics. This is all part of the process of gaining knowledge.

[Mojouw]

Wait. What are we arguing about again?

[teegre]

Wait. What are we arguing about again?

We were discussing whether a full house beats a four of a kind...

[stillers4me]

I'm so done with these stupid threads.

Here's some Wikipedia for you.........


Internet troll

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Trolling" redirects here. For other uses, see Troll (disambiguation) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28disambiguation%29).
"Please do not feed the troll" redirects here. For the Wikipedia advice, see Wikipedia:Deny recognition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deny_recognition).









In Internet slang (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_slang), a troll (/ˈtroʊl/ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English), /ˈtrɒl/ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English)) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll#cite_note-1) extraneous (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/extraneous#Adjective), or off-topic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-topic) messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsgroup), forum, chat room (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chat_room), or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion) response[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll#cite_note-PCMAG_def-2) or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll#cite_note-IUKB_def-3) often for their own amusement.



http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/allergicpagan/files/2015/11/jzlzgn5.jpg

[JKLTO]

Making blanket statements with no specifics is considered sophomoric.

Says the big guy who thinks that just because someone has less than 20 posts, that he MUST NOT HAVE BEEN a dedicated follower of this forum, as well as before it, at Steelers Fever (when it was still around) for many, many years now. A low-post count OBVIOUSLY means that I am disqualified from calling a spade a spade...yeah? I just think you're a troll, my friend. I mean...wow, TeeTee. You have 1,203 posts, but hardly anyone likes what you have to say. Not because they are being disrespectful, but because you come across as being an Internet Diva.

As for your link to the straw-man article on wikipedia - as someone who enjoys both philosophy and debate, I've already read it. Amazingly, someone with 18 posts knows what a straw-man argument actually means! It's just kind of ironic that someone with over 1,200 posts is using it more as a means of deflecting while sounding "smart", instead of, you know, intelligently debating. I could copy and paste the definition of it from any number of sources, but what would be the point? You're the one who loves using/abusing the term - the burden of proof is on YOU to tell us if you know what you're talking about.

As for the people here who have defended me, even though I'm not highly active (for now) - thank you, kindly. But, enough about that...

As I stated earlier - D-Will hasn't been overused. He hasn't been used excessively at all. He's a solid backup that will hopefully remain healthy down the stretch - if he does, then we will be fortunate. If he does get injured, that is simply the reality of playing football. Tomlin doesn't want D-Will to get injured (...come on, now...) - but, that shouldn't stop Coach from playing him through the majority of any given game, since his presence can definitely help the team to succeed in their ultimate pursuit of winning.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Wait. What are we arguing about again?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZlNNSjsELs

[fansince'76]

https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/2/005/091/0fb/3e92033.jpg

[LLT]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Learning is good.

Not being abrasive is better,

It is not a "straw man" fallacy to point out that this thread has the depth of a mud puddle when you have had to contradict yourself from the original point. Take a step back and think..."Is everyone else on this board wrong"? "Could I POSSIBLY be coming across as condescending"? "Do I have an unhealthy NEED to "prove" something by creating thread after thread of unsubstantiated pseudo-intellectual conspiracy-laden football-babble"?

We have to spend WAY to much time cleaning up this board because of your pointless "cool shades" posts claiming you are apparently "enlightened" to the inner workings of the Steelers mindset..and that the rest of us just don't get it. These posts go to our twitter and facebook pages and it would be GREATLY appreciated if you would cool the rhetoric and post with a little more discretion.

I can't be any clearer than that.

[Craic]

Anyone else remember when Pats* fans trolled with somewhat intelligent material? What a sad state of affairs when a thread can actually cause someone to miss LITP. Don't worry, TeeTee, you don't have a high enough post count to remember those days.

[st33lersguy]

Not being abrasive is better,

It is not a "straw man" fallacy to point out that this thread has the depth of a mud puddle when you have had to contradict yourself from the original point. Take a step back and think..."Is everyone else on this board wrong"? "Could I POSSIBLY be coming across as condescending"? "Do I have an unhealthy NEED to "prove" something by creating thread after thread of unsubstantiated pseudo-intellectual conspiracy-laden football-babble"?

We have to spend WAY to much time cleaning up this board because of your pointless "cool shades" posts claiming you are apparently "enlightened" to the inner workings of the Steelers mindset..and that the rest of us just don't get it. These posts go to our twitter and facebook pages and it would be GREATLY appreciated if you would cool the rhetoric and post with a little more discretion.

I can't be any clearer than that.

Well said

[Rotorhead]

Why the purposeful confusion? It has already been stated that what many of us would have him do, is not give nearly 100% of all RB touches to one player. NO ONE ever said not to run or never use our best back available. Those are straw man arguments YOU created; no one else did.

Look TeeTee, it is obvious you recently took a class on logic, so you love to use the basic terms you learned in that class, but if you INSINUATE things online, you are going to get called out on them (which happens so much on this board to you it is ridiculous). It is a FACT that DW has been used little this season is it not? Just because he got used for all of one game doesn't change that fact. He has also had an extra week to rest. If we play afraid to injure our players, then why would be even play the game with Ben, Brown, etc. It is simple logic to play your best players throughout the game if you want to win. It is simple logic to play your best players throughout the game if you are playing to get into the playoffs. If you want to win, it is logical to play your best players, period. Was that clear enough so as not to confuse you? Furthermore, mine was not a strawman argument, I did in fact further my argument when I stated that we are a passing oriented team, therefore would not really be using DW too much anyway. This is a direct contradiction to your terrible argument that we are overusing DW. However since it confused you so, let me restate:
1. We have barely used DW this year, not even half the games (this means less than 50%)
2. Our Offense is pass oriented, therefore we will not use DW as much as a run oriented team. This means he won't be over-used
3. We just got off our bye, DW was used for 1 full game, then had a bye. How can this possible be seen as overuse?
4. If we want to make it into the playoffs, we will need to use ALL our best players.

Was that clear enough?

[polamalubeast]

669206427483803648

[teegre]

Look TeeTee, it is obvious you recently took a class on logic, so you love to use the basic terms you learned in that class

Jackpot!!!

Speaking of Logic 101, he screams about straw man fallacies, while simultaneously using false cause. "A) Bell got injured, because B) the Steelers ran him too often." A was a freak accident, and not caused by B.

What's truly funny is that Tee Tee doesn't realize that he set up one of the biggest false causes with his iteration of the phrase "running the wheels off." The Steelers WON the fucking Lombardi in the year that Tomlin uttered those words. Tomlin ran Willie Parker's wheels off, and Mewelde Moore had to start in the SuperBowl. Using false cause, Tomlin overusing Bell (and now overusing DW) will actually cause the Steelers to win the Lombardi this season.

[smokin3000gt]

How much more of this troll do we have to endure?

[TeeTee]

How much more of this troll do we have to endure?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/23/article-0-1AF399FF000005DC-879_306x423.jpg

[smokin3000gt]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/23/article-0-1AF399FF000005DC-879_306x423.jpg

That should be your avatar.

[fansince'76]

Jackpot!!!

Speaking of Logic 101, he screams about straw man fallacies, while simultaneously using false cause. "A) Bell got injured, because B) the Steelers ran him too often." A was a freak accident, and not caused by B.

What's truly funny is that Tee Tee doesn't realize that he set up one of the biggest false causes with his iteration of the phrase "running the wheels off." The Steelers WON the fucking Lombardi in the year that Tomlin uttered those words. Tomlin ran Willie Parker's wheels off, and Mewelde Moore had to start in the SuperBowl. Using false cause, Tomlin overusing Bell (and now overusing DW) will actually cause the Steelers to win the Lombardi this season.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ROOi5xagxg

:chuckle:

[smokin3000gt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ROOi5xagxg

:chuckle:

lmao... nailed it.

[TeeTee]

Jackpot!!!

Speaking of Logic 101, he screams about straw man fallacies, while simultaneously using false cause. "A) Bell got injured, because B) the Steelers ran him too often." A was a freak accident, and not caused by B.



Another straw man argument! Way to go!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn3c1ko1OYw

[hawaiiansteeler]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/995/415/b30.jpg

[TeeTee]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/995/415/b30.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5vzCmURh7o

[teegre]

Another straw man argument! Way to go!

Wrong. Here's what you said:


if you force him to have too many carries he will get hurt.

A does not cause B.
It's a coincidence.
Ergo... false cause.

[Hawkman]

Just can't let this thread die?!!?

[st33lersguy]

This shit's still going on???

[86WARD]

"If you force him to have too many carries he will get hurt." Not a true statement. Here's a better way to phrase that statement: "The more carries Williams gets, the better the chances are that he gets injured." Even that's not necessarily true...

[Count Steeler]

I think steeldawg moved north in Florida, took a logic course (or read about it on Wikipedia), learned how to capitalize and punctuate, e viola: TeeTee.

The constant deflection, the lack of admitting a mistake, the condescending attitude.

TeeTee, you are the poster formerly known as steeldawg, reincarnated!

[teegre]

"If you force him to have too many carries he will get hurt." Not a true statement. Here's a better way to phrase that statement: "The more carries Williams gets, the better the chances are that he gets injured." Even that's not necessarily true...

Straw man!!!

It is also ad hoc, ad hominem, and ad vertising.

[Mojouw]

"If you force him to have too many carries he will get hurt." Not a true statement. Here's a better way to phrase that statement: "The more carries Williams gets, the better the chances are that he gets injured." Even that's not necessarily true...

Exactly. The "probability" of injury is the same on every running play for the back. It doesn't go up with more carries - despite what we may think. The only explanation is really that if there is a 10% chance you will get injured each time you do something and you do it 12 times - maybe it works out well for you. If you do it 26 times, well you give those dice 14 more times to bit you in the ass.

Also, I don't think our resident logic professor really understands what in the blue hell a straw man really is,

[smokin3000gt]

What TT says is football law.

You guys and your logical arguments... pffttt.....

[JKLTO]

http://groundedparents.com/files/2014/10/cognitive-dissonance-vik-religion-1383952180.jpg

[86WARD]

http://coffeetablecongress.com/Straw-Man_500.gif

[Mojouw]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_fallacy

[tube517]

http://i.imgur.com/YxE1OcT.jpg :chuckle:

[teegre]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_fallacy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjOqaD5tWB0&app=desktop

[TeeTee]

Straw man!!!

It is also ad hoc, ad hominem, and ad vertising.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3YaMi_truk

- - - Updated - - -


What TT says is football law.

You guys and your logical arguments... pffttt.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3YaMi_truk

[st33lersguy]

TeeTee, you are the poster formerly known as steeldawg, reincarnated!

Wide receivers shouldn't have to jump. LOLOL

[Mojouw]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjOqaD5tWB0&app=desktop

Just a great, great, great movie.

Also topical and appropriate!

[fansince'76]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/coldboyblue/misc/0wned/diethreaddie.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/coldboyblue/media/misc/0wned/diethreaddie.jpg.html)

:chuckle:

[steelerdude15]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/coldboyblue/misc/0wned/diethreaddie.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/coldboyblue/media/misc/0wned/diethreaddie.jpg.html)

:chuckle:

http://t.qkme.me/3tr2tl.jpg

:chuckle:

[Mojouw]

http://img.memecdn.com/dont-want-this-thread-to-end_o_2558077.jpg

[hawaiiansteeler]

http://www.garbett.org/image/2011/1/10/threadwouldntdie.jpeg%28445x%29%28crop%29%281D9ABF 561F2C6EC18315D1871A30A056%29.jpg

[tube517]

http://randomthoughtsandphotos.com/images/ThreadsThatWillNotDie.jpg

[Hawkman]

I just want to know......was 8 rushes for 29 yards, and 7 rec for 88 yards over use? I just gotta know!!:rofl2:

[Count Steeler]

I just want to know......was 8 rushes for 29 yards, and 7 rec for 88 yards over use? I just gotta know!!:rofl2:

That is a straw man argument. I believe his point was that Williams should not get all the touches for the RB position in a game. So by his logic, 30 carries is not overuse, if another RB handles the ball 10 times.

Now I am sure I have also made a straw man argument, because any point made by other than the great and mighty Belicheat Knob Slobber (sTeeTeeldawg) is just a ridiculous and illogical argument.

So Ben and Martavis combined for 6 carries and Nix and Johnson had 3 catches, so in this game I would conclude that Williams was NOT overused.

However, Ben and Martavis are not RBs, and Johnson and Nix are technically FBs, so, YES Williams was overused, hence he must be injured as we speak, or he is very near being injured, so he should sit the next game, just in case.

[86WARD]

Those guys aren't RBs. Williams was the only RB used. Therefore, he was over used...again!

[Count Steeler]

Those guys aren't RBs. Williams was the only RB used. Therefore, he was over used...again!

Guess you didn't read my second conclusion.

[86WARD]

I'm just too furious that Williams was overused...again!!!!

[LLT]

21 teams had RB's that had more carries than Williams. Its an epidemic.....STOP THE INSANITY!!!!!!

[tube517]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/12/rb-deangelo-williams-continues-to-be-an-all-around-asset-to-the-steelers/

And using him as a blocker!!! SMH

[86WARD]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/12/rb-deangelo-williams-continues-to-be-an-all-around-asset-to-the-steelers/

And using him as a blocker!!! SMH

Don't even go there...

[st33lersguy]

Waiting for Mr. Strawman to make a post on this thread complaining about how Tomin will in the future run the wheels off of DWil.

[Hawkman]

Waiting for Mr. Strawman to make a post on this thread complaining about how Tomin will in the future run the wheels off of DWil.

You just had to keep this going?:wink02:

[Devilsdancefloor]

http://i65.tinypic.com/kafmhc.jpg

[st33lersguy]

This thread summarized in one clip


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX7Yo0tWDgk

[86WARD]

We still doing this?!?

[Hawkman]

Should we call this "the worst thread to carry on"........or at least one of the worst?

[86WARD]

Pretty much worst thread ever.

[Hawkman]

Pretty much worst thread ever.

Well then......since it was started by TT.......we should,..carry on.:lol:

[86WARD]

:frusty:

[Hawkman]

:frusty:

I thought you'd like that!

[st33lersguy]

The year is 2025, people on this forum will be posting on this thread saying "When will this thread die?"

[BigBen2004]

Bump

[stillers4me]

Nothing to see here,folks.

Movin' on............ http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/sueincinci/9c22586af0cd2a7f33bc145ab20fbeeea5a.gif

[teegre]

Speaking of Tee Tee... I see that he was banned.

Let me guess:
In no way was he condescending towards another poster, but instead the mods were simply picking on him because they are jealous of his superior intellect.



(Really though, what happened?)

[smokin3000gt]

:hatsoff: to the mods for getting rid of that bozo.

[stillers4me]

In no way was he condescending towards another poster, but instead the mods were simply picking on him because they are jealous of his superior intellect.


http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/196/956/448306935_on5nZnDb_c.jpg

[st33lersguy]

My favorite TeeTee moment was complaining about Tomlin's "silly poker play" after Ben's performance against Cleveland

[smokin3000gt]

I have to admit it was fun kicking the troll around and you guys made me lawl.


Strawman formally known as TeeTee in a nutshell:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTkedIUX8U

[hawaiiansteeler]

Waiting for Mr. Strawman to make a post on this thread complaining about how Tomin will in the future run the wheels off of DWil.

he has been banned.

does anyone know if it's a permanent ban or just a temporary vacation?

[st33lersguy]

he has been banned.

does anyone know if it's a permanent ban or just a temporary vacation?

I found out after making the post. Makes sense why he never came back and accused everyone on here of strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks

[86WARD]

he has been banned.

does anyone know if it's a permanent ban or just a temporary vacation?

Who got banned? Lol...

[katmandu]

This website's owner and/or Moderator need to DELETE this train wreck from existence.

http://i.imgur.com/dHoshAJ.gif

[hawaiiansteeler]

This website's owner and/or Moderator need to DELETE this train wreck from existence.

http://i.imgur.com/dHoshAJ.gif

I disagree.

like Pearl Harbor, this thread needs to live on in infamy...

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/1297093/pearl-harbor-o.gif

[86WARD]

http://members.iinet.net.au/~jez/junk/Yoda%20bump.jpg