Bye Week Look at the Steelers Free Agents for 2016

[tube517]

UFAs:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/11/bye-week-look-at-the-steelers-soon-to-be-unrestricted-free-agents/



RFAs/ERFAs:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/11/bye-week-look-at-the-steelers-soon-to-be-restricted-and-exclusive-rights-free-agents/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[steelreserve]

They mostly got that right. The ones I feel strongly about:

Gay - should re-sign and he will probably not cost us top CB money, so no reason not to.

Golden - Re-sign this guy even if it costs more than the minimum. He may be our most consistent DB of all and rarely misses a tackle.

Beachum - Maybe, but if he's going to cost us top LT money, I'd just as soon move on. The $5M neighborhood is my max. Yes, I realize that's low, but I think we'd be fools to commit to a 5-year $40M contract for a guy coming off a major injury. Maybe for an All-Pro like Bell or Pouncey, but let's remember - Beachum was merely good, not dominant. I think we suffer from a lot of left-tackle anxiety because we had a few bad ones, kind of like how nobody thought we could ever replace Jeff Reed. Once again, the situation probably is not as dire as all that. Worst case, a big contract has Willie Colon written all over it.

Nix - No-brainer since he is exclusive-rights; Johnson can go.

Heyward-Bey - I'd actually like to see him back. He did well early in the season when called upon. I'd rather let him battle Coates for the #3/#4 WR spots and forget about Wheaton, who looks like he is just going to be a disappointment.

Cam Thomas - Can't get rid of him soon enough.

McLendon - Enough of this guy, please. Re-signing him is just accepting more mediocrity, and a mediocre NT is not something you want in this defense. We really need to upgrade this position badly. McCullers is looking more like a guy who plays OK in spot duty, not the long-term answer.

Foster - Sure, why not

Warren - I still cannot understand why teams don't teach a couple of their backup offensive linemen or special teams guys to do long snapping instead of using a roster spot just for that. It is not rocket science.

Spence - As good a backup as you'll find if he comes at the right price.


The rest, fuck 'em, I don't care if we keep them or let them walk. A few will be back obviously, just to fill out the roster

[Psycho Ward 86]

I think we need to give serious consideration into cutting Timmons and letting Spence/Williams take his place. Timmons has been so inconsistent the last couple of years and he's about to get way more expensive than he's worth. This is a classic case of having the depth to mitigate the loss. Were about to unload on contract extensions: Decastro, Bell, Bryant, Beachum and id rather not have a good, not All-pro player making it harder to get it done when we have 2 pretty good linebackers behind him

[steelreserve]

I think we need to give serious consideration into cutting Timmons and letting Spence/Williams take his place. Timmons has been so inconsistent the last couple of years and he's about to get way more expensive than he's worth. This is a classic case of having the depth to mitigate the loss. Were about to unload on contract extensions: Decastro, Bell, Bryant, Beachum and id rather not have a good, not All-pro player making it harder to get it done when we have 2 pretty good linebackers behind him

I probably agree with that. We can't keep them all, and I'd rather keep the young guys on the rise than the guy entering the tail end of his career.

All the restructures really killed us with his contract; even if we cut him we'll still be paying him about $7M not to be on the roster.

[Psycho Ward 86]

i forgot to add Antonio Brown getting another extension. Yes, i know he has 2 years left, but if theres one guy to make an exception for, its him. Then again that might set a bad precedent for future players but im not so sure one exception will spoil Colbert's rule of not handing out extension unless theres only a year left (sans QB)

[Mojouw]

I would keep McClendon. I suspect he won't cost that much. Worse case he continues as part of the solution at a NT committee, that by the #'s is doing an acceptable job. Best case he becomes the sorely needed DL depth and plays across the line with Tomlin's beloved "position flexibility".

[steelreserve]

I would keep McClendon. I suspect he won't cost that much. Worse case he continues as part of the solution at a NT committee, that by the #'s is doing an acceptable job. Best case he becomes the sorely needed DL depth and plays across the line with Tomlin's beloved "position flexibility".


The NT by committee is not doing an acceptable job. It is a huge part of the problem.

There's always some stat like "McLendon is one of the top defensive tackles against the run, when the offense runs a counter play out of a two-receiver set with the tight end in motion, on odd-numbered downs, on Tuesdays and Fridays between 4 and 5 p.m."

But let's face it: he sucks. He's barely able to hold his own against one-on-one blocking, and what you need is not a guy who can hold his own, but a guy who can consistently beat the shit out of one-on-one blocking. And either disrupt the play or force the guard to help. Right now we don't have a guy like that on our roster. It's the key to the pass rush, arguably the main key to the 3-4 defense.

McLendon is a stopgap guy who became the starter by default because someone doesn't understand the importance of that and refuses to do anything about it. Every year he remains the starter, or that we stick with the "nose tackle by committee" bullshit, is another admission that we are oblivious. A good comparison is the DB situation. We were oblivious there too; how's that working out for us?

[Mojouw]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/11/steelers-defense-grounds-running-game-during-season-of-improvement/

The stats say different. Rush yards per attempt are down. Sacks are up. Turnovers are up.

We clearly disagree on McLendon as a player and have for some time. I see a role player who fits his role fairly well. Is he the best? Of course not.

You see a player who isn't Casey Hampton 2.0. Fair enough. But it comes down to a simple allocation of resources. Does anyone want to see the Steelers spend a 1st round pick (and potentially need to trade up to get their man)on a player, who, at best, will see 40% of the defensive snaps?

If anyone does, then that is an easy to defend argument. There is a lot of sense behind it. But I see it as a total misapplication of resources.

[steelreserve]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/11/steelers-defense-grounds-running-game-during-season-of-improvement/

The stats say different. Rush yards per attempt are down. Sacks are up. Turnovers are up.

We clearly disagree on McLendon as a player and have for some time. I see a role player who fits his role fairly well. Is he the best? Of course not.

You see a player who isn't Casey Hampton 2.0. Fair enough. But it comes down to a simple allocation of resources. Does anyone want to see the Steelers spend a 1st round pick (and potentially need to trade up to get their man)on a player, who, at best, will see 40% of the defensive snaps?

If anyone does, then that is an easy to defend argument. There is a lot of sense behind it. But I see it as a total misapplication of resources.


We could've signed a guy like Terrance Knighton in the offseason for $4M (or, $2M more than we're paying Cam Thomas to be useless). Before that, we could've signed a guy like Pat Sims ... basically, there's usually someone better than McLendon available who is a true nose tackle (also something that McLendon is not), and you don't have to have a huge allocation of resources to get them.

This idea that we MUST spend a first-round pick is pretty weak as well. Not every quality starter on defense has to be a first-rounder, although that certainly seems to be our trend lately (and over an 8-year period, that speaks more to the skill of the coaches/FO than anything). You just have to try harder than using a what-the-hell pick on some project guy every four or five years on the last day of the draft. There are usually one or two decent NT prospects still available by the time we pick in the second and even the third rounds. This year Carl Davis from Iowa was there in the third; we probably could've gone after Eddie Goldman or Jordan Phillips in the second with minimal trouble. The problem is that we don't even try.

Is it worth spending a first-round pick? I'd go so far as to say that it is, for the simple reason that a good NT would save us two or three high draft picks that we currently use to constantly replace pass-rushing linebackers who never seem to live up to their potential.

Why are rushing yards down, and sacks and turnovers up this year? It's not because of McLendon. Mostly because Heyward and Tuitt have come into their own and are creating opportunities for the others. Imagine how that would be with a third guy helping them, instead of a mediocre guy they have to make up for.

No, it's not that we disagree on McLendon, it's that we disagree on the importance of having a nose tackle at all. The number-of-snaps thing is probably the #1 example of the statmongers overthinking things until they've got it completely backwards. Turn it around - do you think it's a good idea to put a player who sucks on the field for 40% of the snaps? How would that work out for us at CB? Hell, how would it work out for us with a kicker - he's only on the field for about 5% of the snaps. Maybe the reason nose tackles seem to command a bit higher price is because while we've been standing around with our dicks in our hands for a full decade, the other teams playing the 3-4 have figured out that despite "only" playing half the snaps, it's worth it.

You don't even need to allocate crazy amounts of resources to it in order to get a good player, but we won't even try at all.

[Mojouw]

We could've signed a guy like Terrance Knighton in the offseason for $4M (or, $2M more than we're paying Cam Thomas to be useless). Before that, we could've signed a guy like Pat Sims ... basically, there's usually someone better than McLendon available who is a true nose tackle (also something that McLendon is not), and you don't have to have a huge allocation of resources to get them.

This idea that we MUST spend a first-round pick is pretty weak as well. Not every quality starter on defense has to be a first-rounder, although that certainly seems to be our trend lately (and over an 8-year period, that speaks more to the skill of the coaches/FO than anything). You just have to try harder than using a what-the-hell pick on some project guy every four or five years on the last day of the draft. There are usually one or two decent NT prospects still available by the time we pick in the second and even the third rounds. This year Carl Davis from Iowa was there in the third; we probably could've gone after Eddie Goldman or Jordan Phillips in the second with minimal trouble. The problem is that we don't even try.

Is it worth spending a first-round pick? I'd go so far as to say that it is, for the simple reason that a good NT would save us two or three high draft picks that we currently use to constantly replace pass-rushing linebackers who never seem to live up to their potential.

Why are rushing yards down, and sacks and turnovers up this year? It's not because of McLendon. Mostly because Heyward and Tuitt have come into their own and are creating opportunities for the others. Imagine how that would be with a third guy helping them, instead of a mediocre guy they have to make up for.

No, it's not that we disagree on McLendon, it's that we disagree on the importance of having a nose tackle at all. The number-of-snaps thing is probably the #1 example of the statmongers overthinking things until they've got it completely backwards. Turn it around - do you think it's a good idea to put a player who sucks on the field for 40% of the snaps? How would that work out for us at CB? Hell, how would it work out for us with a kicker - he's only on the field for about 5% of the snaps. Maybe the reason nose tackles seem to command a bit higher price is because while we've been standing around with our dicks in our hands for a full decade, the other teams playing the 3-4 have figured out that despite "only" playing half the snaps, it's worth it.

You don't even need to allocate crazy amounts of resources to it in order to get a good player, but we won't even try at all.

Knighton is fat and terrible now that he got paid. Passing on him is not a decision I think many would regret.

If you look at all the starting nose tackles around the league - they fall in to two categories.
1. Guys who really dominate the line of scrimmage and impact how an offense wants to do things.
2. Guys who don't get you beat and can help against the run a bit.

Where you find those guys can be further divided in to three groups.
A. The first round of the draft is the only place you find true NTs that can really impact and influence an offensive game plan.
B. Rounds 4-6 of the draft is where you can find guys like McLendon and McCullers. They can help in running downs and they don't really dominate and have basically no role on passing downs.
C. Convert a DE. You see a great # of former 4-3 DEs bulking up and playing 3-4 nose. Seems to happen after their first contract when their 4-3 pass rush #'s just aren't working out.

Some of the players from Group C are better than Group B; some are not. And vice versa. But Group A is where you find the dominant NT's you are wishing for. Seriously, I can't find the post now, but I took a look at this (how all the starting 3-4 NTs for each team were obtained) and it generally breaks down along the lines outline above.

Bottom line - If you want to significantly upgrade from McLendon (for sure - not just role the dice on a prospect) you need to invest a 1st or 2nd round pick. Not worth it in my opinion. Doesn't mean I'm right. Just means I will yell about it on the internet a bunch.

[steelreserve]

Bottom line - If you want to significantly upgrade from McLendon (for sure - not just role the dice on a prospect) you need to invest a 1st or 2nd round pick. Not worth it in my opinion. Doesn't mean I'm right. Just means I will yell about it on the internet a bunch.


Well, even if so, I think it's worth it; the position is a lot more important than it gets credit for, and impacts all those other positions we spend high picks on.

People have tried to analyze it out of existence with snap counts, or get cute and try to invent around it with schemes that value different traits in defensive linemen. But it is still inescapable that if you choose to run a 3-4 defense like ours, there is no substitute for a big 330-pound fat guy who is built like a bowling ball and has roughly the same effect. If that takes a first or second-round pick once every 10 years, it's absolutely worth it. For us to do otherwise is like saying it's not even the 10th-most important position on the team, and nothing could be farther from the truth.

I know we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this, but well .. you've got some good points, but I still think it's needed despite the cost.

[Mojouw]

Well, even if so, I think it's worth it; the position is a lot more important than it gets credit for, and impacts all those other positions we spend high picks on.

People have tried to analyze it out of existence with snap counts, or get cute and try to invent around it with schemes that value different traits in defensive linemen. But it is still inescapable that if you choose to run a 3-4 defense like ours, there is no substitute for a big 330-pound fat guy who is built like a bowling ball and has roughly the same effect. If that takes a first or second-round pick once every 10 years, it's absolutely worth it. For us to do otherwise is like saying it's not even the 10th-most important position on the team, and nothing could be farther from the truth.

I know we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this, but well .. you've got some good points, but I still think it's needed despite the cost.

You have some solid points as well. And history is on your side. It would be really interesting to have a beer with Mitchell (or at least I think that is the DL coach's name) and see what he thinks. Clearly the team is going all in on the DEs strategy and just going to wall-paper over the NT spot. Wonder what a guy who has been coaching 3-4 lineman for a long time really thinks about that?

Enjoyable discussion nonetheless.

[steelreserve]

You have some solid points as well. And history is on your side. It would be really interesting to have a beer with Mitchell (or at least I think that is the DL coach's name) and see what he thinks. Clearly the team is going all in on the DEs strategy and just going to wall-paper over the NT spot. Wonder what a guy who has been coaching 3-4 lineman for a long time really thinks about that?

Enjoyable discussion nonetheless.


Tuitt and Heyward are good enough that they can start to compensate for a mediocre NT, but no matter how good they are, I don't think they can do it all the way.


Who knows - maybe it was a LeBeau thing where he didn't place importance on it (both Hampton and Hoke predated him) and it changes next year. Maybe not. One can always hope.

[Rotorhead]

Both good arguments. My take is I think the team is going to attempt to bring McCullers into that role. He has shown some very dominant flashes in games. I think they will use McClendon and McCullers for next year and they are hoping after that McCullers will be the next NT for this team. I would like to keep McClendon though, he could fill in all 3 spots and we certainly need the depth.

I also think we should keep Spence, when he filled in for Shazier, you saw his number a lot around the ball. He is very instinctive and I think he is finally rounding out to be a very good ILB (after his injuries). If they teams doesn't want to keep him, they should see if there are trade partners for him (I think we could get at least a 3rd rounder) or use him to trade up in the draft.

[steelreserve]

Both good arguments. My take is I think the team is going to attempt to bring McCullers into that role. He has shown some very dominant flashes in games. I think they will use McClendon and McCullers for next year and they are hoping after that McCullers will be the next NT for this team. I would like to keep McClendon though, he could fill in all 3 spots and we certainly need the depth.

I also think we should keep Spence, when he filled in for Shazier, you saw his number a lot around the ball. He is very instinctive and I think he is finally rounding out to be a very good ILB (after his injuries). If they teams doesn't want to keep him, they should see if there are trade partners for him (I think we could get at least a 3rd rounder) or use him to trade up in the draft.


I wouldn't mind having McLendon around for depth, but I fear there is no way they would use him that way. One of those players who for some reason, if he's on the roster, they are always going to make him the starter, even if it's to the detriment of everyone else. I for one would like to see them throw McCullers in there and see what they really have, good or bad. Unfortunately, while he's shown flashes, his development strikes me as more that of a situational guy, not a guy who's going to be the big disruptor day in and day out. I think we still need someone better if we want to make NT a position of strength.

Absolutely agree with you about Spence, except that I would take it a step further and say he should get a shot as Timmons' replacement if the contract mess forces a move this offseason.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I wouldn't mind having McLendon around for depth, but I fear there is no way they would use him that way. One of those players who for some reason, if he's on the roster, they are always going to make him the starter, even if it's to the detriment of everyone else. I for one would like to see them throw McCullers in there and see what they really have, good or bad. Unfortunately, while he's shown flashes, his development strikes me as more that of a situational guy, not a guy who's going to be the big disruptor day in and day out. I think we still need someone better if we want to make NT a position of strength.

Absolutely agree with you about Spence, except that I would take it a step further and say he should get a shot as Timmons' replacement if the contract mess forces a move this offseason.

i want to keep Mclendon but i agree not to keep him around for this very reason. What is he being paid, $2 million a year right now? I assume he'll ask for that and probably even more. Hopefully McCullers takes a big leap forward next season and we pick up a position flexible veteran and rookie in the offseason

[tube517]

McClendon played DE when Tuitt was out. He wasn't Tuitt but he wasn't useless like Dirty Dick. If he continues to be flexible position-wise, I'm sure Butler/Mitchell/Tomlin will try and keep him.

The only thing I don't like about McClendon is he seems to be hurt or have some nagging injury. He hasn't played a whole season healthy, until this year....so far.


I thought he was a DE anyways, but they just pushed him to NT and made him eat alot of burgers and hot dogs.

[Count Steeler]

I think McLendon is a good player for depth and rotation. Steelers need another 1 or 2 solid DL for depth.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I think McLendon is a good player for depth and rotation. Steelers need another 1 or 2 solid DL for depth.

Hopefully Clifton Geathers can be one of those guys. I remember John Mitchell or someone saying he put on like 90lb in a season to prepare for his role for the team, whatever that may be. They seem to be riding on him pretty hard to be a contributor for this team, and it seems like Geathers is buying in if he put that kind of effort to do something for us

[MULLDOG24]

McClendon played DE when Tuitt was out. He wasn't Tuitt but he wasn't useless like Dirty Dick. If he continues to be flexible position-wise, I'm sure Butler/Mitchell/Tomlin will try and keep him.

The only thing I don't like about McClendon is he seems to be hurt or have some nagging injury. He hasn't played a whole season healthy, until this year....so far.


I thought he was a DE anyways, but they just pushed him to NT and made him eat alot of burgers and hot dogs.

This!! I think you hit the nail on the head because he used to be around the 290lb-300lb range and had a high motor. When he started putting on weight and got to be 320 plus he got slower and more injury-prone. I always thought he would've been better had they left him at DE and at the lower weight as it seems to me he played better at that weight JMO.

[steelreserve]

Honestly, McLendon would probably make a lot better DT in a 4-3 scheme than anything he can do here. Not quite a nose tackle, not quite a 3-4 DE. But if his role was to stop the run, and try to collapse the middle and not be the only one doing it, I can see him having a lot of success.