6-4 at the bye week.

[Edman]

It may be the Browns, but today was a huge win. Steelers pick up a division win.

Some ups, some downs, but can't complain, considering how this stressful and unlucky season has transpired. Six games to go.

[86WARD]

Manziel tearing up the defense was a downer. But Ben and the offense looked great. 2 weeks to prepare for Seattle at their place.

[lipps83]

I hate to say it, but the offense seems to run so much better without Bell. If they could run this offense the way they do without Bell, with Bell, they would be unstoppable. Instead they try to force it more than they probably should towards Bell when he is in there. With Williams there, the pass game is the pass game and the run game is the run game. With Bell, it was a clusterf**k this year.

33 ppg without Bell. 19 ppg with Bell. 4 of those games were without Ben, but the 2 games with Ben they barely cracked 10 ppg.

I love Bell and think he is probably the best back in the league, but the team can survive without him.

[86WARD]

I hate to say it, but the offense seems to run so much better without Bell. If they could run this offense the way they do without Bell, with Bell, they would be unstoppable. Instead they try to force it more than they probably should towards Bell when he is in there. With Williams there, the pass game is the pass game and the run game is the run game. With Bell, it was a clusterf**k this year.

33 ppg without Bell. 19 ppg with Bell. 4 of those games were without Ben, but the 2 games with Ben they barely cracked 10 ppg.

I love Bell and think he is probably the best back in the league, but the team can survive without him.

I don't think Bell is necessarily the best back in the league. I think he's good. I think he's great in Haley's system...sometimes I think he's more a product of the system than the best back in the league.

[Edman]

Manziel tearing up the defense was a downer. But Ben and the offense looked great. 2 weeks to prepare for Seattle at their place.

9 points given up all day. The Defense bent but never broke.

[86WARD]

9 points given up all day. The Defense bent but never broke.

True...but the Browns more hurt themselves with penalties and dropped passes more so than the Steelers Defense stopping them on a few occasions. Against a better team, that showing wouldn't have been nearly as good IMO.

[lipps83]

Yeah, Manziel almost finished the day at 80% completion rate if it had not been for the last drive. It has been a problem all season and preseason. Heck, the Bills backups had over 95% completion percentage in the preseason against the defense.

They can't ignore the secondary any longer. Each position needs to be addressed in the offseason, and that is both starting corners too.

- - - Updated - - -


I don't think Bell is necessarily the best back in the league. I think he's good. I think he's great in Haley's system...sometimes I think he's more a product of the system than the best back in the league.

Certainly a bit of both. I think the passing game is much smoother without Bell. With Bell it seems they try to force him in.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Yeah, Manziel almost finished the day at 80% completion rate if it had not been for the last drive. It has been a problem all season and preseason. Heck, the Bills backups had over 95% completion percentage in the preseason against the defense.

They can't ignore the secondary any longer. Each position needs to be addressed in the offseason, and that is both starting corners too.

- - - Updated - - -



Certainly a bit of both. I think the passing game is much smoother without Bell. With Bell it seems they try to force him in.
We have a better coverage CB but he sits on the bench every game.

[fansince'76]

I hate to say it, but the offense seems to run so much better without Bell. If they could run this offense the way they do without Bell, with Bell, they would be unstoppable. Instead they try to force it more than they probably should towards Bell when he is in there. With Williams there, the pass game is the pass game and the run game is the run game. With Bell, it was a clusterf**k this year.

33 ppg without Bell. 19 ppg with Bell. 4 of those games were without Ben, but the 2 games with Ben they barely cracked 10 ppg.

I love Bell and think he is probably the best back in the league, but the team can survive without him.

That's not Bell's fault - that is squarely on the OC. Personally, I hope the rumor of the Dolphins hiring Haley to be their next HC turns out to be true, because I feel we could do a lot better.

Oh, and he can feel free to take Danny Smith with him as well.

[ALLD]

It seems Hayley also interferes in Ben's passing game. Just let Ben call most of the plays and see what happens.

[steelreserve]

I hate to say it, but the offense seems to run so much better without Bell. If they could run this offense the way they do without Bell, with Bell, they would be unstoppable. Instead they try to force it more than they probably should towards Bell when he is in there. With Williams there, the pass game is the pass game and the run game is the run game. With Bell, it was a clusterf**k this year.

33 ppg without Bell. 19 ppg with Bell. 4 of those games were without Ben, but the 2 games with Ben they barely cracked 10 ppg.

I love Bell and think he is probably the best back in the league, but the team can survive without him.


I think that's about the most far off it's possible to be with a comment. We got to see exactly one quarter of Bell-kun with the full-strength offense. Three quarters total with Ben in the lineup. Things were fine.

The problem is that with anyone other than a 100% Ben at QB, the only offense we run is the Haley Turtle. And since the entire premise of that offense is telegraphed running plays and telegraphed bubble screens, then yeah, almost every time Bell touched the ball we were forcing it. Brown too, but you didn't see anyone complaining about him messing the offense.

It wasn't Bell, it was the turtle. Frankly I'm amazed he did as well as he did while Ben was out. If we tried that shit during the Willie Parker days, it would've been 19 carries for 21 yards every game, and we would've lost all four of them and been out of the playoff race. Bell was just as good as ever, and the #1 most important thing we did was get a competent backup who's not a piece of shit.

[st33lersguy]

Currently have the no. 5 seed. Let's hope we keep this up and most of all avoid injuries

[86WARD]

Currently have the no. 5 seed. Let's hope we keep this up and most of all avoid injuries

5 seed is where you want to be. Traveling to Indianapolis...ill take that everyday...

[steelreserve]

We have a better coverage CB but he sits on the bench every game.


Well, he's not going to be here next season after the pseudo-doghouse bullshit, so that puts us right back to square one. Hopefully Golson is actually worthwhile, though I certainly wouldn't mind us bringing in more help. The only CB I can say for certain I'd want to keep is Gay, and even that only in a limited role.

[Craic]

I don't think Bell is necessarily the best back in the league. I think he's good. I think he's great in Haley's system...sometimes I think he's more a product of the system than the best back in the league.

There's always the question of how one's production is helped by those surrounding them. However, things like Bell's vision, his ability to cut, his ability to make people miss, and his route running has little or nothing to do with those who surround him. If he went to the Browns, let's say, I don't think he remains the best back in the league, but I do believe he remains one of the top 5-7.

- - - Updated - - -


I don't think Bell is necessarily the best back in the league. I think he's good. I think he's great in Haley's system...sometimes I think he's more a product of the system than the best back in the league.

There's always the question of how one's production is helped by those surrounding them. However, things like Bell's vision, his ability to cut, his ability to make people miss, and his route running has little or nothing to do with those who surround him. If he went to the Browns, let's say, I don't think he remains one of the best 2-3 backs in the league, but I do believe he remains one of the top 5-7.

[Rotorhead]

The way Denvers off is looking I am certainly not worried about that game. They may not win another game.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Well, he's not going to be here next season after the pseudo-doghouse bullshit, so that puts us right back to square one. Hopefully Golson is actually worthwhile, though I certainly wouldn't mind us bringing in more help. The only CB I can say for certain I'd want to keep is Gay, and even that only in a limited role.

You're right, he won't be here next year. I'm sure that Blake will remain the starter no matter what and we'll be destined to continue to give up huge amounts of yardage to crappy QBs like Manziel.

[fansince'76]

The way Denvers off is looking I am certainly not worried about that game. They may not win another game.

Manning's done.

[Rotorhead]

Yeah, terrible call by Elway to switch coaches IMHO

[86WARD]

The schedule is looking easier than it was...

[polamalubeast]

5 seed is where you want to be. Traveling to Indianapolis...ill take that everyday...

Indianapolis or Denver,I will be happy with it

[polamalubeast]

But it is a very frustrating season....Injury after injury after injury


It's ridiculous

[Edman]

Yeah, Manziel almost finished the day at 80% completion rate if it had not been for the last drive.

9 points.


It has been a problem all season and preseason.


Only one team was able to hang 30+ on the Steelers this year. If it were so easy to put points on this Steelers defense, teams would be doing it week after week.


Heck, the Bills backups had over 95% completion percentage in the preseason against the defense.

This isn't preseason.


They can't ignore the secondary any longer. Each position needs to be addressed in the offseason, and that is both starting corners too.

Fair enough, there's always room to improve, but the Defense is more than good enough to help this team win.

[polamalubeast]

Johnny Foosball can throw for 500 yards and I still wouldn't care.

9 points.

But the Steelers were lucky in defense today.

The pass defense has been horrible.

[Steelman]

Johnny Foosball can throw for 500 yards and I still wouldn't care.

9 points.

Exactly.

Butler's magic number is 17 points. The defense let him down in that regard last week against Oakland, but they certainly made up for it today.

[Edman]

True...but the Browns more hurt themselves with penalties and dropped passes more so than the Steelers Defense stopping them on a few occasions. Against a better team, that showing wouldn't have been nearly as good IMO.

If Cleveland put up 30 effortlessly today, then you could have a point. The Defense didn't have a good game.

But they only got 9. I don't care how, why or what. The Defense surrendered a ton of yards, but always stopped Cleveland when they had to.

Like I said, Manziel can throw for 500 and I wouldn't care. He was held off the scoreboard.

You don't win/lose games by who puts up the most yardage, who wins the game is who scores the most points. Cleveland got 9.


But the Steelers were lucky in defense today. The pass defense has been horrible.

So lucky and so horrible they gave up 9 points. 6 off of a very short field after a Ben INT.

[Godfather]

I think a wild card is pretty much in the bag. The Steelers have the head to head on the other contenders and there are a lot of bad teams who won't even come close.

[hawaiiansteeler]

the defense allowed the Brownies just 15 rushing yards today! :thumbsup:

[lipps83]

If Cleveland put up 30 effortlessly today, then you could have a point. The Defense didn't have a good game.

But they only got 9. I don't care how, why or what. The Defense surrendered a ton of yards, but always stopped Cleveland when they had to.

Like I said, Manziel can throw for 500 and I wouldn't care. He was held off the scoreboard.

You don't win/lose games by who puts up the most yardage, who wins the game is who scores the most points. Cleveland got 9.



So lucky and so horrible they gave up 9 points. 6 off of a very short field after a Ben INT.

The Browns are a 2-8 team. They probably couldn't have scored 20 points if we only put 10 defenders on the field the entire game. This complacency is why the defense is in the shape that it is in. It was ignored for years because, Dick Lebeau. Lebeau would fix it every one kept saying. Guess what, he didn't. Butler has done an awesome job with the mess that was left for him though, I give him that.

The defense got chewed up by Johnny Manziel. Johnny Manziel.

A semi decent QB can, and do have field days against this defense.

They held the Browns to 9 points though, so why bother? Let's just keep doing the same thing that hasn't been working, that's how you fix it I guess because they held the Browns (of all teams) to 9 points?

Like the Browns are an offensive juggernaut.

Record setting offensive juggernaut Browns are in town, look out. 28th overall ppg offense is coming to play, better watch out. If you hold them to 9 points, it's a good day.

[teegre]

Wait...

Bell sucks??? :huh:

Only giving up 9 points is a "bad" game????? :doh:

[Count Steeler]

Wait...

Bell sucks??? :huh:

Only giving up 9 points is a "bad" game????? :doh:

People should not stop their medication without a doctor's advisement.

[Hawkman]

Almost sorry we don't have a game next week. This group got rolling when BB came in, and didn't stop. Hope they can..."fire up" against the "Chickens"!!

[teegre]

People should not stop their medication without a doctor's advisement.

But, the voices in my head said that I'm all better now...

[st33lersguy]

I think 6-4 is pretty good considering all the injuries that were incurred and the fact that the Steelers were without a kicker for 4 games

[Edman]

The Browns are a 2-8 team. They probably couldn't have scored 20 points if we only put 10 defenders on the field the entire game. This complacency is why the defense is in the shape that it is in. It was ignored for years because, Dick Lebeau. Lebeau would fix it every one kept saying. Guess what, he didn't. Butler has done an awesome job with the mess that was left for him though, I give him that.

The defense got chewed up by Johnny Manziel. Johnny Manziel.

A semi decent QB can, and do have field days against this defense.

They held the Browns to 9 points though, so why bother? Let's just keep doing the same thing that hasn't been working, that's how you fix it I guess because they held the Browns (of all teams) to 9 points?

Like the Browns are an offensive juggernaut.

Record setting offensive juggernaut Browns are in town, look out. 28th overall ppg offense is coming to play, better watch out. If you hold them to 9 points, it's a good day.

Okay, since you put it that way....

The Steelers held the Patriots to one of their lowest point totals of the season (28) in a very winnable game.

They also held the Cardinals and Bengals to 13 points and 16 points respectively. Two of the hottest offenses in the league.

Only one opposing offense eclipsed 30+ on the Steelers this year. The Raiders.

But hey, what we're doing isn't working because Johnny Manziel racked up a ton of yardage today. If Manziel was chewing all over the Steelers Defense and our D is so terrible, Manziel would've done better than nine points.

Oh, and did I mention today's game was a blowout? You sound like one of those stat jokers who bashed on the D in the San Francisco game because Crappernick threw for 300+, even though much of it came after the game was well-decided? Manziel had pretty stats today, but who cares?

Where was Manziel's "chewing up the defense" when the Browns actually needed him to?

[Edman]

People should not stop their medication without a doctor's advisement.

What are you talking about? Everyone knows yardage wins games. /sarcasm

The Steelers can surrender 38 points on Defense, but if they hold an offense to 300 yards, they're a good D, according to some of these people.

[st33lersguy]

Yeah, I would like the defense to give up fewer yards, everyone would, but with the lack of talent in the secondary, I think Butler is getting a lot out of the defense to be giving up a lot of yards but not a lot of points. Also let's not ignore the fact that both the turnovers and the sacks are up this year after being down the past few years. And they are better without Bell because they scored 33 ppg without him and 19 ppg with him? I'm that has everything to do with the fact that in almost the entirety of the 5 and 1 quarter games he has played, he has been saddled with the rotting corpse of Michael Vick and the green Landry Jones.

[BigBen2004]

I was pleased with the performance today.
This defense isn't a shutdown unit, it's an opportunistic one.

They're great in the red zone, they pressure the QB, and they force turnovers. That type of defense is the reason we're 6-4. Sure, our record could be better with a shutdown unit. But we don't have that.

With all the talk in the offseason and preseason about how horrible this defense would be, I'm pleasantly surprised AND very happy that this unit is a formidable one.

Throw for 300 yards. Who cares when you're fumbling the ball and throwing interceptions?
Splash plays are more important to me. You can get lost in so many numbers and statistics. But the most important statistic is this; 6-4. With allllllllllll the injuries we've had. We can thank the defense for keeping us in contention

[SteelMayhem72]

Browns beat themselves on offense. Manziel shredded our D and im really worried about our pass D...i think our D has regressed in many ways. Luckily it was the browns and all their penalties

[SteelMayhem72]

Im cautiously optimistic

[hawaiiansteeler]

Browns beat themselves on offense. Manziel shredded our D and im really worried about our pass D...i think our D has regressed in many ways. Luckily it was the browns and all their penalties

I agree.

when you let Johnny Eightball go 33/45 for 372 yards against you it would be naive to think all is okay...

[Craic]

I was pleased with the performance today.
This defense isn't a shutdown unit, it's an opportunistic one.

They're great in the red zone, they pressure the QB, and they force turnovers. That type of defense is the reason we're 6-4. Sure, our record could be better with a shutdown unit. But we don't have that.

With all the talk in the offseason and preseason about how horrible this defense would be, I'm pleasantly surprised AND very happy that this unit is a formidable one.

Throw for 300 yards. Who cares when you're fumbling the ball and throwing interceptions?
Splash plays are more important to me. You can get lost in so many numbers and statistics. But the most important statistic is this; 6-4. With allllllllllll the injuries we've had. We can thank the defense for keeping us in contention

This, for the most part, is a very good post.

The one thing I do not like about a shutdown defense is that they'll let one leak through every now and then at just the wrong time. Go back and check the 2008 defense starting in the playoffs, and follow them through 2009-10. I'd rather have a defense that could care less about teams gaining 300-400 yards on them through the air if they only give up a TD or two per game. In this day an age, you're not going to get a defense that holds every team out of the endzone all game, every game.

[steelreserve]

I was pleased with the performance today.
This defense isn't a shutdown unit, it's an opportunistic one.

They're great in the red zone, they pressure the QB, and they force turnovers. That type of defense is the reason we're 6-4. Sure, our record could be better with a shutdown unit. But we don't have that.

With all the talk in the offseason and preseason about how horrible this defense would be, I'm pleasantly surprised AND very happy that this unit is a formidable one.

Throw for 300 yards. Who cares when you're fumbling the ball and throwing interceptions?
Splash plays are more important to me. You can get lost in so many numbers and statistics. But the most important statistic is this; 6-4. With allllllllllll the injuries we've had. We can thank the defense for keeping us in contention


That's a pretty good assessment. We've got obvious holes in the defense, but they're not going away at this point in the season and we're compensating for our shortcomings as best we can.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that Butler's way of making up for those shortcomings is to be aggressive and try to apply pressure, whereas under LeBeau for the past 2-3 years we had the same shortcomings and the answer was to shift more and more toward conservative vanilla defense.

Sure, when you're aggressive, sometimes you roll the dice and lose, but you also get big plays that can tilt the game in your favor. I think it's pretty obvious this year that it's more than made up for the risk.

If you play conservative D with the lineup that we have, a good team just grinds you down 100% of the time, no doubt about it. Worse, after a few series, those teams start to get a feel for what's going to work against you and then they can exploit it mercilessly. Being aggressive and mixing things up takes away those go-to plays at least some of the time.

Now, the aggression isn't going to work if your talent level is complete shit, so at least that speaks something to the fact that we've got some positives going on. I think Butler deserves some credit for realizing that no, this isn't the Steel Curtain, but there are still ways to make the most of what you've got.

[Mojouw]

I couldn't agree more with the posts about the defense. Butler is making chicken salad out of chicken shit in that secondary. Robert Golden is playing kinda maybe sorta well. What's next Shamarko plays well in a injury mandated start?

Don't forget the defense SHOULD look even better IF BR can stay healthy. It's pretty easy to terrorize an opposing offense when you put the other team down 3 scores by halftime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[steelreserve]

Golden is the surprise bright spot of the defense this year if you ask me. No huge spectacular plays, but I haven't seen him get caught with his pants down or miss a tackle even once. Guy ought to get a good look for a starting job next season, and hell, even this season he's done at least as well as Allen IMO.

[BigBen2004]

Mike Mitchell has been great this year.

This is the player we thought we were signing a year ago. I figured once he grasped the system, got comfortable, and healthy, he'd be a very nice addition.

Mitchell and D'Lo are paying HUGE dividends. Kudos to the front office.
Without them, we may not even be in contention.

[Count Steeler]

Golden is the surprise bright spot of the defense this year if you ask me. No huge spectacular plays, but I haven't seen him get caught with his pants down or miss a tackle even once. Guy ought to get a good look for a starting job next season, and hell, even this season he's done at least as well as Allen IMO.

1 problem, no splash plays. For some reason, Tomlin loves splash over consistency.

[Steelman]

Butler is making chicken salad out of chicken shit in that secondary.

:applaudit:

Best line I've seen in awhile.

[polamalubeast]

That's a pretty good assessment. We've got obvious holes in the defense, but they're not going away at this point in the season and we're compensating for our shortcomings as best we can.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that Butler's way of making up for those shortcomings is to be aggressive and try to apply pressure, whereas under LeBeau for the past 2-3 years we had the same shortcomings and the answer was to shift more and more toward conservative vanilla defense.

Sure, when you're aggressive, sometimes you roll the dice and lose, but you also get big plays that can tilt the game in your favor. I think it's pretty obvious this year that it's more than made up for the risk.

If you play conservative D with the lineup that we have, a good team just grinds you down 100% of the time, no doubt about it. Worse, after a few series, those teams start to get a feel for what's going to work against you and then they can exploit it mercilessly. Being aggressive and mixing things up takes away those go-to plays at least some of the time.

Now, the aggression isn't going to work if your talent level is complete shit, so at least that speaks something to the fact that we've got some positives going on. I think Butler deserves some credit for realizing that no, this isn't the Steel Curtain, but there are still ways to make the most of what you've got.


Agree with you!

[zulater]

That's not Bell's fault - that is squarely on the OC. Personally, I hope the rumor of the Dolphins hiring Haley to be their next HC turns out to be true, because I feel we could do a lot better.

Oh, and he can feel free to take Danny Smith with him as well.

How can one even make a statement on this? Ben and Bell played together all of about 20 snaps this year. And Ben was half hobbled for most of them. I fully believe we beat the Bengals if Bell doesn't get hurt. When he went out he had supplied over 60% of the offensive yards. If he stays in that game Ben doesn't wear down at the end. And even if he did Bell would have been there to carry the load.

Last year they played great together. This year it just wasn't meant to be. That's not to say I give up on the season, just the dynamic we could achieve with all the pieces in place, what could have been, that we have to wait until 16 to see.

[86WARD]

With all the injuries and all the mess that has been this season, I'm very happy to be 6-4 and honestly, 12-4, 11-5 isn't out of the realm of possibility with what is on the schedule. I think they lose in Seattle, but the rest of the games are very much winnable.

With that, the defense has been good. Good at bending and good at not breaking. Butler is probably one of the better offseason "acquisitions" for 2015.

If the team makes the playoffs or goes 12-4, 11-5, Tomlin deserves to be in the conversation around or near the top for Coach of the Year.

[tube517]

With all the injuries and all the mess that has been this season, I'm very happy to be 6-4 and honestly, 12-4, 11-5 isn't out of the realm of possibility with what is on the schedule. I think they lose in Seattle, but the rest of the games are very much winnable.

With that, the defense has been good. Good at bending and good at not breaking. Butler is probably one of the better offseason "acquisitions" for 2015.

If the team makes the playoffs or goes 12-4, 11-5, Tomlin deserves to be in the conversation around or near the top for Coach of the Year.


Naw. He'll probably get Ray-Ban's top honor, which entitles him to a free ticket to the WSOP.

[Rotorhead]

Well, lets look at the rest of our schedule:

Seahawks - above avg team, keep Wilson in the pocket and our Def will be fine. Our offense is simply better than their Def, but we will have to take what they give us. If they try to double Brown we have too many weapons for them, if they don't, well we have seen what happens there. Winnable, but will have to play well on both sides of the ball. The only things that worry me are it is a west coast game and they are in full playoff mode now.

Colts - Lost Luck, enough said, we win this game

Bengals - We should have won the first game, we will win the second

Broncos - They have ZERO offense AND their OL is terrible. They have the best Def I have seen in a long time, but it seems like this season is taking it toll on them, Winnable

Ravens and Browns - Don't need 2 lines for them, if we lost to either of these team (barring any more injuries that is) we don't deserve to be in the playoffs

We should at worst go 4-2 down the stretch, but could easily go 6-0 if we have no more injuries and play like we want to make the playoffs. Def has to continue to be solid and Off has to make up for our early season losses.

My prediction is 6th seed (due to our loss against KC) at 11-5 (tied with Bills who get the 5th seed) where we will see the Bengals for a 3rd time and beat them again in the playoffs.

[lipps83]

Okay, since you put it that way....

The Steelers held the Patriots to one of their lowest point totals of the season (28) in a very winnable game.

They also held the Cardinals and Bengals to 13 points and 16 points respectively. Two of the hottest offenses in the league.

Only one opposing offense eclipsed 30+ on the Steelers this year. The Raiders.

But hey, what we're doing isn't working because Johnny Manziel racked up a ton of yardage today. If Manziel was chewing all over the Steelers Defense and our D is so terrible, Manziel would've done better than nine points.

Oh, and did I mention today's game was a blowout? You sound like one of those stat jokers who bashed on the D in the San Francisco game because Crappernick threw for 300+, even though much of it came after the game was well-decided? Manziel had pretty stats today, but who cares?

Where was Manziel's "chewing up the defense" when the Browns actually needed him to?

Woah, slow down. I never said this wasn't a good defense. I said this defense has an obviously glaring weakness. The secondary. You can hide the weakness of the secondary with a pass rush, which they do. Obviously you didn't notice that when they weren't rushing more than 4, the Browns could pretty much do whatever they wanted no matter how many they dropped back in coverage.

So obviously, the strength of the defense is the aggressiveness of it. Why sit back and relax, let an offense move 80 yards and THEN decide to be aggressive because the immediate threat of scoring is now there?

Lebeau sat back and waited for an offense to make a mistake instead of forcing one for the last 3 or 4 years. Yesterday they sat back and waited for the offense to make a mistake, and when they didn't they got aggressive in the red zone and forced them.

Do you see the difference? Probably not.

[Edman]

So obviously, the strength of the defense is the aggressiveness of it. Why sit back and relax, let an offense move 80 yards and THEN decide to be aggressive because the immediate threat of scoring is now there?

Well, let's see.

The Steelers were up 24-3 at one point. All it takes is one big play by Cleveland and they have life. Butler let Cleveland grab yardage, but also forced them to take time off the clock on their drive.


Lebeau sat back and waited for an offense to make a mistake instead of forcing one for the last 3 or 4 years. Yesterday they sat back and waited for the offense to make a mistake, and when they didn't they got aggressive in the red zone and forced them.

The problem with Lebeau in his last days in Pittsburgh is that he sat back and got passive when the Steelers couldn't afford it, and the game was yet to be decided. He was passive from the word go with his ten yard cushions. In a game where you have a 21-point deficit, sure you can play off a little, But in a game where all it takes is a couple plays for the opponent to get within striking distance of you, No.

If yesterday's game was close, I bet Butler would've dialed up the aggressiveness, but he was comfortably sitting on a 21 point lead.

[lipps83]

Well, let's see.

The Steelers were up 24-3 at one point. All it takes is one big play by Cleveland and they have life. Butler let Cleveland grab yardage, but also forced them to take time off the clock on their drive.



The problem with Lebeau in his last days in Pittsburgh is that he sat back and got passive when the Steelers couldn't afford it, and the game was yet to be decided. He was passive from the word go with his ten yard cushions. In a game where you have a 21-point deficit, sure you can play off a little, But in a game where all it takes is a couple plays for the opponent to get within striking distance of you, No.

If yesterday's game was close, I bet Butler would've dialed up the aggressiveness, but he was comfortably sitting on a 21 point lead.

I see your point, but I just think that is sort of counter productive. I would rather see them force the 3 and outs as quickly as possible and get the ball back to the offense. The offense can chew clock.

[86WARD]

Seattle scares me because it's at their place. Although the Cardinals did some nice work last night. The Bengals also because it's at their place...that could wind up being a night game...which will hurt Ginger.

[teegre]

Well, let's see.

The Steelers were up 24-3 at one point. All it takes is one big play by Cleveland and they have life. Butler let Cleveland grab yardage, but also forced them to take time off the clock on their drive.



The problem with Lebeau in his last days in Pittsburgh is that he sat back and got passive when the Steelers couldn't afford it, and the game was yet to be decided. He was passive from the word go with his ten yard cushions. In a game where you have a 21-point deficit, sure you can play off a little, But in a game where all it takes is a couple plays for the opponent to get within striking distance of you, No.

If yesterday's game was close, I bet Butler would've dialed up the aggressiveness, but he was comfortably sitting on a 21 point lead.

Yep.

Butler's defense executed the prevent to perfection.

[MrPgh]

Seattle scares me because it's at their place. Although the Cardinals did some nice work last night. The Bengals also because it's at their place...that could wind up being a night game...which will hurt Ginger.

Nope, CBS has that game protected. Can't be flexed to prime time.

[fansince'76]

The problem with Lebeau in his last days in Pittsburgh is that he sat back and got passive when the Steelers couldn't afford it, and the game was yet to be decided. He was passive from the word go with his ten yard cushions.

And the same predictable crossing blitz over and over which EVERYONE had figured out...

[hawaiiansteeler]

AFC North Standings:

Bengals: 8-1
Steelers: 6-4
Ravens: 2-7
Browns: 2-8

[Psycho Ward 86]

AFC North Standings:

Bengals: 8-1
Steelers: 6-4
Ravens: 2-7
Browns: 2-8

Geez. Ginger Spice is seriously awful in primetime WITHOUT FAIL no matter who its against.

I think we can all be in agreement that its beyond dumb to think we can still take the division but it looks very likely the bengals are going to drop quite a few more games. 3 more primetime games for Dalton to go (2 of them against the broncos and cardinals), and we still get a rematch when Ben should finally be healthy

[steelreserve]

I don't think it's beyond hope to win the division. The Bengals tend to finish off every year with some form of stunning late-season collapse. I wouldn't be shocked if they ended up with 5 or 6 losses.

Is it a longshot that we'll win the division? Sure. Out of the question? Not at all.

[Craic]

Geez. Ginger Spice is seriously awful in primetime WITHOUT FAIL no matter who its against.

I think we can all be in agreement that its beyond dumb to think we can still take the division but it looks very likely the bengals are going to drop quite a few more games. 3 more primetime games for Dalton to go (2 of them against the broncos and cardinals), and we still get a rematch when Ben should finally be healthy

Not at all. They're playing the Cards, the Broncos, and both Browns and Ravens. Don't think the Browns and Ravens don't want to play spoiler. So, we need them to lose two games, one of which against the Browns or Ravens, and then we need to win ours. If that happens, we go to tie breakers - and every team they play, we've played and beat except for the Ravens. So . . . if they do lose two games (one against the Browns or Ravens), and we get hot, we can win the tiebreaker for common games.

So, beyond dumb? Absolutely not. Unlikely? Sure. Very unlikely? I'm not sure I'd go quite that far.

[Steeldude]

The difficult part of the schedule is here. I still predict 8-8.

Seahawks, Colts, Bengals, Broncos, Ravens and the Browns are left.

[86WARD]

If they stay healthy from here on out, I can see them winning all of those games except for the Seattle game and possibly a letdown in Denver?

[86WARD]

If they can stay healthy...

[zulater]

If the Steelers win out I think at worst they tie the Bengals for the division. Not sure how the tiebreakers would play out, but I see it this way. I think the Bengals lose at the Cardinals next week. So we come out of the bye only two down in the loss column. Now going by the premise of this post ( not a prediction of the Steelers final record mind you) we would win in Cincy. No huge stretch, if we bring our A game and go in there relatively healthy very likely to happen. Anyway that puts us within one loss of the Bengals .If the Steelers are breathing down their neck the Bengals will stumble at least one more time. So it's simple, win your remaining games and you've got a real chance to win the division. Or at least make the Bengals squirm through the tie breaker process.

All this said I don't see the Steelers going unbeaten the rest of the way. But of course last year when they lost at home to the Saints and stood at 7-5 who among us predicted the Steelers would run the schedule and win the division?

I'll end with this. The Steelers are capable of winning every game on their schedule. If they play their best football I think they go at worst 4-2 the rest of the way. For whatever reason though put a gun to my head I see us ending up at 11-5 with another maddening loss coming at Baltimore. 2

[86WARD]

Where does Seattle play this week? I can't see them dropping two in a row at home...

[tube517]

Where does Seattle play this week? I can't see them dropping two in a row at home...

They play the Niners at Seattle

[Rotorhead]

The difficult part of the schedule is here. I still predict 8-8.

Seahawks, Colts, Bengals, Broncos, Ravens and the Browns are left.

Where do you see 4 losses? Colts lost their QB, Broncos have the worst offense in the league and were lucky to win the games they won. So even if we lost to Seattle and Bengals (the only 2 difficult games on our schedule) who are the other 2 losses from?

[Craic]

Where do you see 4 losses? Colts lost their QB, Broncos have the worst offense in the league and were lucky to win the games they won. So even if we lost to Seattle and Bengals (the only 2 difficult games on our schedule) who are the other 2 losses from?

Through pessimism disguised as "realist"

[86WARD]

They play the Niners at Seattle

That makes me feel better about Seattle "losing at home" if they win against the Niners.

[tube517]

That makes me feel better about Seattle "losing at home" if they win against the Niners.

Since their secondary is blowing leads like the 09 Steelers, maybe they have a 5 game losing streak like we did :chuckle:

[86WARD]

Since their secondary is blowing leads like the 09 Steelers, maybe they have a 5 game losing streak like we did :chuckle:

I'd rather just see a loss, win, loss to the steelers.

[teegre]

Here's how I see it ending up...

1. Taperiots : 14-2
2. Bengals: 13-3
5. Steelers: 12-4

The 3 & 4 seeds BOTH lose in the wild card round. The AFC South is already a joke, and the ARC West is about to become one.

The Tapes lose to the #6 seed. The Steelers beat the Bengals.

The #6 travels to Pittsburgh for the AFCCG... where the Steelers annihilate them.

Th SuperBowl pits the Steelers versus the undefeated Panthers... one of the greatest games ever played comes down to a BB 76-yard game-clinching drive that kills the clock.

Panthers 24
Steelers 25

[Rotorhead]

I can live with that, but can we beat the Cheats in their home instead? That would be best.

I can actually see the Bengals losing to Arizona, so if they can drop one more along with us . . . Denver's Def could definitely shut them down, but it is a big ask for the Denver off to do anything now . . . maybe Manning heals up enough to come out for one last game win to get that record . . .

[Steeldude]

Where do you see 4 losses? Colts lost their QB, Broncos have the worst offense in the league and were lucky to win the games they won. So even if we lost to Seattle and Bengals (the only 2 difficult games on our schedule) who are the other 2 losses from?

Since when does a team need a QB to beat the Steelers? ; )

Ravens on the road is always tough. Broncos on the road is tough too. I forgot about the Colts losing their QB, but then again their backup QB shouldn't have a problem moving the ball down field. Seahawks are tough as are the Bengals. I wouldn't call the Browns' game a gimme. That's. division rival.

[tube517]

Since when does a team need a QB to beat the Steelers? ; )

Ravens on the road is always tough. Broncos on the road is tough too. I forgot about the Colts losing their QB, but then again their backup QB shouldn't have a problem moving the ball down field. Seahawks are tough as are the Bengals. I wouldn't call the Browns' game a gimme. That's. division rival.

Broncos is a home game for us.

[Steeldude]

Through pessimism disguised as "realist"

Do you feel it is unrealistic to see the Steelers losing to 4 quality opponents? It's true that I have little confidence in the Steelers defense.

I stay with my original prediction of 8-8. Hopefully the Steelers show me to be wrong.

[Rotorhead]

I think the Broncos as a team are done, I can honestly see them losing out, that is how bad it is getting (I live in Denver so I have seen all their games). Their defense is falling apart in frustration (eye poking, punch players on tackles, etc). They are getting gashed by the run. I think they are getting so frustrated because they were so good before and their offense has not shown up yet. I am hoping Cincy starts their regular end of season flop and Seattle is not looking good either, the Cards just killed them in their house. Our end of season schedule is not as bad as it looked earlier this year.

[Steeldude]

Broncos is a home game for us.

Ok. Well that's a good sign. Let's hope they can contain Manning.

I didn't think Goodell would allow the Steelers to host the Bronocos.

[86WARD]

Since when does a team need a QB to beat the Steelers? ; )

Ravens on the road is always tough. Broncos on the road is tough too. I forgot about the Colts losing their QB, but then again their backup QB shouldn't have a problem moving the ball down field. Seahawks are tough as are the Bengals. I wouldn't call the Browns' game a gimme. That's. division rival.

Their back up is Matt Hasselbeck...which isn't a slouch...

[tube517]

Ok. Well that's a good sign. Let's hope they can contain Manning.

I didn't think Goodell would allow the Steelers to host the Bronocos.

I can't even remember the last time Denver played at Pittsburgh.


EDIT: Looked it up. Only once (2006) since the AFCC game vs Elway in 97.

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/denver-broncos/teamvsteam?opp=25

[polamalubeast]

I can't even remember the last time Denver played at Pittsburgh.

It was in 2006.

[SteelGhost]

Ok. Well that's a good sign. Let's hope they can contain Manning.

I didn't think Goodell would allow the Steelers to host the Bronocos.

IF he plays :noidea:

[clemdawg]

Im focusing on Seattle for now. I will worry about the Broncos when we get to them. Think if the Steelers were healthier we'd be better.

Sent from my SPH-L710T using Tapatalk

[teegre]

It's true that I have little confidence in the Steelers defense.

Pittsburgh is 5th in points allowed per game.

That's not too shabby...

[polamalubeast]

Pittsburgh is 5th in points allowed per game.

That's not too shabby...

Butler made an incredible job this year because the defense is far from being the most talented!

Of the 10 games, the defense only had 3 bad/average game(Chiefs,Raiders and Pats).

[teegre]

Butler made an incredible job this year because the defense is far from being the most talented!

Of the 10 games, the defense only had 3 bad/average game(Chiefs,Raiders and Pats).

Exactly.

In fact, one could argue that the Chiefs game was more about Landry Jones giving the Chiefs three turnovers.


Regardless, I'm a believer in Butler.

[st33lersguy]

AFC North Standings:

Bengals: 8-1
Steelers: 6-4
Ravens: lol
Browns: lol

Fixed it

[hawaiiansteeler]

I don't think it's beyond hope to win the division. The Bengals tend to finish off every year with some form of stunning late-season collapse. I wouldn't be shocked if they ended up with 5 or 6 losses.

Is it a longshot that we'll win the division? Sure. Out of the question? Not at all.

the Steelers currently have a 58% probability of making the playoffs and a 9% probability of winning the division...

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2015-nfl-predictions/

[zulater]

The Steelers can't win a 12-4 tiebreaker with the Bengals. Even if they lose another division game a 12-4 Bengal team would have a better conference record. Hard to see them losing 4 more, but that's what it will take to win the division even if we win out. Damn you Josh Scobee! :frusty:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Edman]

the Steelers currently have a 58% probability of making the playoffs and a 9% probability of winning the division...

Obligatory:

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/fc/fc2fca5cc8833d35c92822a6af386914480a4e7c2411a6329d 9742eb6bc89110.jpg

[hawaiiansteeler]

Flacco is out for the season with a torn acl...

[Craic]

The Steelers can't win a 12-4 tiebreaker with the Bengals. Even if they lose another division game a 12-4 Bengal team would have a better conference record. Hard to see them losing 4 more, but that's what it will take to win the division even if we win out. Damn you Josh Scobee! :frusty:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, they can. Steelers have to win out, and Bengals have to lose to us, and also to another AFCN team. Division record comes before conference record.


Two teams
1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the teams).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.

[Rotorhead]

Well I see them losing 5 before losing to the Browns or Flaccoless Ravens

[Craic]

Let's see . . .

Rams - a win, but possible taking out Bengal's QB for the rest of the year.

Cleveland - win

Steelers - Loss

San Fran - Win

Denver - Loss, depending on what Denver team shows up

Baltimore - oh, how this team would love to play spoiler.
-------------

That's two or three losses. We need them to lose against the Browns or Baltimore, however. Any-given-Sunday . . . but I'm not sure I see it happening after the Raven's injuries today.

[zulater]

Yes, they can. Steelers have to win out, and Bengals have to lose to us, and also to another AFCN team. Division record comes before conference record.

We have two division losses. They have none to date. Under the premise we beat them in Cincy, if they lost to either the Browns or Ravens all we would be is tied with them in division games. I thought conference record was the next tie breaker, but assuming you're right I'm not sure how common opponent tie breaker would play out between them? :noidea:

[86WARD]

Just a quick look at common opponents:

Steelers are 5-1 with Seattle and Denver left. Wins against Oakland, SD, AZ, STL, SF. Loss against the Chiefs.

Bengals are 4-1 with SF, STL, Denver remaining. Wins against Oakland, SD, KC, Seattle. Loss coming last night against Arizona.

So Bengals have the edge in one and the Steelers have the edge in one. Makes that Seattle game a little bigger than it would've been.

[polamalubeast]

Let's see . . .

Rams - a win, but possible taking out Bengal's QB for the rest of the year.

Cleveland - win

Steelers - Loss

San Fran - Win

Denver - Loss, depending on what Denver team shows up

Baltimore - oh, how this team would love to play spoiler.
-------------

That's two or three losses. We need them to lose against the Browns or Baltimore, however. Any-given-Sunday . . . but I'm not sure I see it happening after the Raven's injuries today.

I do not think the ravens will want to help the Steelers in the last game of the year

[Rotorhead]

Well I can see it really hinging on the STL game, if they drop that one then we have a chance, otherwise we can hope for the 5th seed and beat them in the playoffs.

[86WARD]

I don't think that Denver game is a gimme. They are better with Osweiler than Manning at this stage.

[Craic]

We have two division losses. They have none to date. Under the premise we beat them in Cincy, if they lost to either the Browns or Ravens all we would be is tied with them in division games. I thought conference record was the next tie breaker, but assuming you're right I'm not sure how common opponent tie breaker would play out between them? :noidea:

Last I checked, if we won out, we'd win that one. I could be wrong, however. I'm married, so I'm used to being wrong every day.

- - - Updated - - -


I do not think the ravens will want to help the Steelers in the last game of the year

Help the Steelers, no. Defeat the Bengals and knock them out of first, prolonging their agony of being defined as a team that fails in clutch time? ABSOLUTELY.

[zulater]

I don't think that Denver game is a gimme. They are better with Osweiler than Manning at this stage.

As Steeler fans we should know by now that there's no thing as a "gimme". This team is capable of winning any remaining game on their schedule and they could just as well lose any of them if they aren't focused or play a mistake laden game. And of course there's always the old injury bug that can jump up and bite you at any moment.

I hate to feed into the cliche machine but it's a week to week season. The only thing that matters right now is that they go into Seattle and put their best foot forward and hopefully that's good enough for a win. If not at least take away some momentum and come out healthy and win the next one.

[Mojouw]

Unfortunately, the Steelers get Seattle right after they pull their heads out of their asses and realize that Rawls is better than an injured Lynch. What's next, they remember that Jimmy Graham is on their roster and has caught 53 touchdowns in his career?

[teegre]

I could be wrong, however. I'm married, so I'm used to being wrong every day.

I clarified with my wife; she said that we are both wrong.

Then... she asked me what the question was.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I could be wrong, however. I'm married, so I'm used to being wrong every day.

Marriage Rule #1: Your wife is always right.

Marriage Rule #2: If your wife is wrong, see Rule #1...

[Craic]

I clarified with my wife; she said that we are both wrong.

Then... she asked me what the question was.

Sound about right!

[Born2Steel]

The last 6 weeks doesn't look as bad as it did at season opener. If we can manage just 4-2 we are most likely in a wildcard spot. Everyone should know by now it's just make the playoffs. Forget the record or seed. Once in, anything can happen.

[zulater]

The last 6 weeks doesn't look as bad as it did at season opener. If we can manage just 4-2 we are most likely in a wildcard spot. Everyone should know by now it's just make the playoffs. Forget the record or seed. Once in, anything can happen.

Since we go into week 12 with a full game lead over our closest wild card competition, and being as there are two wild card berths available, I would say 10-6 is virtually a lock to get us in.

But I think we need to go 5-1 in order to insure the 5 seed, which would put us at the AFC South winner ( most likely) for Wild Card weekend.

[Craic]

snip

Last I checked, if we won out, we'd win that one. I could be wrong, however. I'm married, so I'm used to being wrong every day.

Hey, Zu, turns out I was wrong and you were right according to the ESPN playoff machine, we need the Bungles to lose three more games, rather than two.