Do we win another title with Tomlin?

[BigBen2004]

I want to know what you guys think.

This is the first thread I've created, and I thought I'd ask a question that burns inside a lot of us.

Mike Tomlin is known for a lot of things. The media considers him a top tier head coach.
But, is he?
Year after year, Pittsburgh drops games to teams they should absolutely dismantle. Then, they go and beat teams that they shouldn't. In the losses, they look weak, uninterested, and just downright awful. This leads many to believe that it's due to a lack of discipline.
Does Tomlin lack leadership?
Does he make sure his players are 100% ready for every game?

With losses like these, Pittsburgh has been unable to secure a coveted first round bye in it's last two (likely now three) postseason appearances.
These losses come back to haunt the team, by putting them in less than ideal situations, such as winning multiple road playoff games.

Much more could be said on this topic, and I'm not saying how I feel.
I'm simply asking you, my fellow Yinzers;
Does Mike Tomlin have what it takes to get this team to the promised land again?

[86WARD]

No and unfortunately, I don't think the sniff one with Ben just because of the Tomlin situation. If they keep him, I don't think they win another championship. If they let him go, the amount of change will lead to too much of a "learning curve" and the window will close.

I'd like to believe otherwise, but it's hard too...

[fansince'76]

Hard to say. I think there are more than enough pieces in place (particularly on offense) to do so, but this season looks like it's going to be derailed by injuries, much like 2011 and 2012 were. There's a lot of luck involved in that department. Super Bowls are hard enough to win as it is.

After all, for as much as the media likes to blow Belicheat and the Patriots, it took them a decade to "win" another one. I didn't watch that game personally, but from what I've heard, the primary reason they won that one is because of a monumentally stupid play call by Pete Carroll and company.

BTW, how many injuries to key players have the remaining unbeaten teams in the league sustained thus far? Not many, from what I've seen. And before you bring up the Packers in 2010, the one constant on that team was Rodgers and he wasn't injured. Ben's gone down twice this season already. And in a QB-driven league, you need to seriously temper your expectations when you're forced to start guys like Vick and Jones under center for multiple games.

And of the last 10 SB winners, 5 were wild card teams. So there goes that theory. Now more than ever getting hot at the right time of the season is crucial (even more so than playoff seeding), and, once again, part of that stems from luck to a certain extent.

I do think the window will close (and quite possibly for a good while) when Ben retires, regardless of who the HC is.

[teegre]

Yes... 4 more.

BB will threepeat, and then retire. It'll take another 7 years for Tomlin to win his fifth, and like BB, he'll retire right afterwards.

[tube517]

Just get hot at the right time and get healthy. Look at 2005 Steelers, 2007 and 2011 Giants, 2010 Packers, 2012 Ratbirds. Even the 2006 Colts had a shitty defense.


Cool shades the poker playin' coach is just a mouthpiece for the Rooneys anyways :stirthepot: :chuckle:

[86WARD]

Yes... 4 more.

BB will threepeat, and then retire. It'll take another 7 years for Tomlin to win his fifth, and like BB, he'll retire right afterwards.

I really wish you could see
The future and were 100% correct!

[hawaiiansteeler]

I really wish you could see
The future and were 100% correct!

the future is so bright,
Tomlin gotta wear shades...

http://www.steelers.com/assets/images/imported/PIT/photos/article/2009_Mike_Tomlin_CLE1_0273.jpg

[Mojouw]

Yes.

[steelreserve]

We may win one more in spite of him. It won't be because we're a dominant team, but because we get on a roll at the right time. The offense as currently constituted gives us a puncher's chance to win a title as long as everyone stays healthy. Not sure whether that was by design or just a happy accident - seems more likely the latter given the circumstances - but that probably gives us about a 15-20% chance of winning the AFC in any given year, and then it's one game. I don't particularly think he's got the vision or the special something that you see with great coaches who create championships themselves.

[ALLD]

No. It looks like the buddy system and big playbook filled with trick plays called at the wrong time with the wrong personnel will take a team only so far. Then factor in midget-love and dart throwing to select FA and call plays.

[Count Steeler]

Yes... 4 more.

BB will threepeat, and then retire. It'll take another 7 years for Tomlin to win his fifth, and like BB, he'll retire right afterwards.

I need some of what you are smoking. I was thinking 1, maybe 2 if all goes well.

But then again, we should be scoring TDs on every play.

[teegre]

I need some of what you are smoking. I was thinking 1, maybe 2 if all goes well.

But then again, we should be scoring TDs on every play.

I'm the eternal optimist.

That said, there's a helluva lot of truth to my reasoning.

1. The AFC is weak. Brady and Peyton are aging. The Colts refuse to protect Luck. And, outside of the Bengals and Raidahs, the rest are a bunch of "flash in the pans" (Tyrod Taylor is the greatest... for a season).

If the Steelers can make the playoffs, the odds of them getting to the Super Bowl are very good. And, once in that game, pretty much anything can happen... and I'm willing to bet on BB in a "one-&-done" situation.

2. BB finally has weapons. AB might not just be the best WR that BB has thrown to, AB might be the best WR to ever play for the Steelers. Bryant is a phenom. Bell is freakin' great. Plus, the O-line is the best it has been in years (and, BB has won a Lombardi with a tackling dummy at OC).

3. This defense is on the cusp. Heyward and Tuitt are going to be household names in the near future. Shazier and Dupree are going to be the splash play generators. If the Steelers can get a decent secondary, this defense will be "Blitzburgh" good. That is not an embellishment; that is not Homerism; that is a logical prediction.

Add it all up... and BB leads the best defense that the Steelers have ever had, with a juggernaut of a defense thrown in for good measure.


Jump on the bandwagon... you can ride shotgun, brother.

[TeeTee]

With Tomlin's 1st and 2nd Super Bowl runs, he had a team chock-full of veterans who provided the leadership, as they had been doing before Cool Shades ever got here.

As the Aaron Smith's, Keisel's, Farrior's went away, I believe a fissure appeared on the leadership front, and we witnessed the manifestation of such: lack of focus (especially against the weakest teams), lack of discipline in general, and all the things that veteran leadership would not allow to happen. Cool Shades would rather be "raw, raw" and act like a buddy than he would kick some ass when needed. Well, it appears that he doesn't know when kicking ass is in order. That is my observation. Can you imagine a Belichick-coached team have such a horrid record vs. team of 20% or less winning %? Isn't he like 1-6 vs. teams of such terrible winning %s?

The difference between top coaches and Cool Shades is the top coaches anticipate problems around the corner, while Cool Shades doesn't see them until they are already a problem. For instance, the super lax attitude in the locker room with ping pong tables and air hockey didn't seem to loose but Tomlin didn't react until it was too late. Most feel that you should almost never have a non-winning season with a legit franchise QB, which is what Ben is. Granted, Ben hasn't been playing for much of this season, but he was for the other recent non-winning campaigns.

Can we win another ring with Cool Shades? Yes, I believe it is possible, considering even Caldwell won the conference title with Manning, and I believe he is far worse than Cool Shades. So, it is possible. (Although Caldwell did get blown out in the SB and he hasn't done anything since.)


Caldwell joined Tony Dungy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Dungy)'s staff with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers) in 2001 as quarterbacks coach. He followed Dungy to Indianapolis in 2002 and remained with him for his entire tenure, helping lead the Colts to a win in Super Bowl XLI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XLI).On January 13, 2008, Caldwell was formally announced as Dungy's successor-in-waiting. On January 12, 2009, Dungy announced his retirement, putting Caldwell in the head coaching position.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Caldwell_(American_football)#cite_note-1) He was formally introduced at a press conference the following day.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Caldwell_(American_football)#cite_note-2)
Caldwell had one of the best debut seasons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Indianapolis_Colts_season) for a head coach in NFL history, finishing with a 14–2 record. The Colts rushed out to a 14–0 start. With the AFC South (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_South) title and the top seed in the AFC playoffs secured, Caldwell opted (on orders from then GM, Bill Polian) to sit out his starting players the last two games of the season (both losses), drawing controversy to him and the team.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Caldwell_(American_football)#cite_note-3) He later won his first playoff game against the Baltimore Ravens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Ravens) on January 16, 2010. On January 24, 2010, Caldwell became the 5th rookie head coach to lead his team to the Super Bowl with a 31–17 loss to the New Orleans Saints (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_Saints). Caldwell holds the NFL record for the best start by a rookie head coach, starting his career with 14 wins. The 14 wins also tied a franchise record. As of Super Bowl XLVIII (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XLVIII), Caldwell is the last rookie head coach to reach the Super Bowl.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Caldwell_(American_football)#cite_note-4)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Caldwell_(American_football)

[teegre]

Belichick

:deadhorse:

[TeeTee]

:deadhorse:




"The truth should be repeated ad nauseam, as you can be reassured that the propaganda surely will, so without the repetition of the truth, the lies will be considered true. The truth must be repeated as much as possible."

yup, yup.

[teegre]

yup, yup.

Indeed... you announce your love for Belichick ad nauseum.

[86WARD]

Tomlin said something in an interview that I thought was very "Lombardi-Like"...I was actually somewhat impressed by it.

"Injuries are as much a part of the game of football as blocking and tackling."

When injuries occur, the media act as if these teams don't prepare at all and don't expect injuries. I think Tomlin put it into a nice perspective there.

[BigBen2004]

Sure, Wild Card teams can win the big game. So, a top seed isn't a necessity. However, the losses to horrible teams can not only mess with seeding, but earning a playoff berth in general. So, if they miss the playoffs because of losses like that, then there's no shot at a title in the first place.

Whether people acknowledge it or not, losing those games are absolutely devastating to a season in the long run.
And it all starts with the coaching.

If if we lose to Cleveland on Sunday, we won't make the playoffs. You can blame injuries, but even a one-legged Mike Vick should be able to beat this current Browns team. No reason Landry can't.

[fansince'76]

Sure, Wild Card teams can win the big game. So, a top seed isn't a necessity. However, the losses to horrible teams can not only mess with seeding, but earning a playoff berth in general. So, if they miss the playoffs because of losses like that, then there's no shot at a title in the first place.

Whether people acknowledge it or not, losing those games are absolutely devastating to a season in the long run.
And it all starts with the coaching.

If if we lose to Cleveland on Sunday, we won't make the playoffs. You can blame injuries, but even a one-legged Mike Vick should be able to beat this current Browns team. No reason Landry can't.

A couple of points:

The NFL isn't the NCAA. There are no "Ohio State vs. South Podunk Valley U." matchups at the NFL level. There are no "cupcakes" in the NFL. EVERYONE has at least some talent in the NFL, even the "lowly" Browns. And the margin between winning and losing is usually razor-thin and comes down to 2 or 3 plays in a given game more often than not. ESPECIALLY in division games between teams that play each other at least twice a season.

For example, if Landry Jones starts, I'm looking for a dogfight Sunday against the Browns, especially since they have WAY better DBs than we have. I don't think AB will be so wide open he'll be in his own ZIP code too often (which so often happens against our secondary), and I don't have a whole hell of a lot of faith in Jones being able to repeatedly put the ball in tight windows without getting picked. So I fully expect the exact same game plan against us that KC rolled out - stack 8 or 9 in the box to stop the run (especially with Bell now out to boot) and dare Landry Jones to throw.

So yes, injuries, particularly injuries to a franchise QB (of which only a handful of teams are lucky enough to have to begin with), can potentially derail a season, like it or not.

EVERYONE in the NFL drops games that they "shouldn't" from time to time, even the mighty Belichick. (See: two Super Bowls against the Giants - one as an 18-0 team looking to make NFL history against a fairly nondescript 10-6 NFC 5th seed and the other as a 13-3 AFC 1st seed against a 9-7 NFC 4th seed that was left for dead at 7-7 and a game behind the Cowboys earlier in the same season).

But since it sounds like all you want to hear is "no, we won't win another title with Tomlin as coach, no way in hell," then fine, we won't.

Happy now?

[BigBen2004]

A couple of points:

The NFL isn't the NCAA. There are no "Ohio State vs. South Podunk Valley U." matchups at the NFL level. There are no "cupcakes" in the NFL. EVERYONE has at least some talent in the NFL, even the "lowly" Browns. And the margin between winning and losing is usually razor-thin and comes down to 2 or 3 plays in a given game more often than not. ESPECIALLY in division games between teams that play each other at least twice a season.

For example, if Landry Jones starts, I'm looking for a dogfight Sunday against the Browns, especially since they have WAY better DBs than we have. I don't think AB will be so wide open he'll be in his own ZIP code too often (which so often happens against our secondary), and I don't have a whole hell of a lot of faith in Jones being able to repeatedly put the ball in tight windows without getting picked. So I fully expect the exact same game plan against us that KC rolled out - stack 8 or 9 in the box to stop the run (especially with Bell now out to boot) and dare Landry Jones to throw.

So yes, injuries, particularly injuries to a franchise QB (of which only a handful of teams are lucky enough to have to begin with), can potentially derail a season, like it or not.

EVERYONE in the NFL drops games that they "shouldn't" from time to time, even the mighty Belichick. (See: two Super Bowls against the Giants - one as an 18-0 team looking to make NFL history against a fairly nondescript 10-6 NFC 5th seed and the other as a 13-3 AFC 1st seed against a 9-7 NFC 4th seed that was left for dead at 7-7 and a game behind the Cowboys earlier in the same season).

But since it sounds like all you want to hear is "no, we won't win another title with Tomlin as coach, no way in hell," then fine, we won't.

Happy now?

That's not what I want to hear at all. I just think you're way too adamant in defending Tomlin. Why should you? The points I made ARE true. Based off of his history.

Personally, I don't know which way I lean towards here. I think Ben can carry this team to another title, without Tomlin's help.
But the window is closing. He only has 4-5 years left.

No need to be a bhole to me.

[fansince'76]

That's not what I want to hear at all. I just think you're way too adamant in defending Tomlin. Why should you? The points I made ARE true. Based off of his history.

Personally, I don't know which way I lean towards here. I think Ben can carry this team to another title, without Tomlin's help.
But the window is closing. He only has 4-5 years left.

No need to be a bhole to me.

I'm not defending anybody. I clearly stated in my first post in this thread that it's hard to say if Tomlin will win another one or not, which is hardly a ringing endorsement. I was simply stating a fact that the margin between winning and losing in the NFL is razor-thin and the injury bug can very quickly wreck an otherwise promising season.

And I apologize if I somehow pigeonholed you, but I have noticed your comments in the game threads after losses about Tomlin "needing to go," and I based my conclusions on that.

[st33lersguy]

This season is showing that Ben is starting to break down. Ben might be calling it quits soon and after that the championship window in the Tomlin era has closed

[hawaiiansteeler]

Indeed... you announce your love for Belichick ad nauseum.

I personally don't understand how anyone can love or respect Belicheat.

he's a cheater, which will forever be his legacy...

[steelerdude15]

I have a feeling the Steelers will win one more Super Bowl with Ben as quarterback and Mike as head coach.

- - - Updated - - -


This season is showing that Ben is starting to break down. Ben might be calling it quits soon and after that the championship window in the Tomlin era has closed

How? Both of his injuries weren't his fault. It's not like he was running and he pulled a muscle.

[Mojouw]

Break down? Seriously? Drop a refrigerator on your foot. See what happens. Are you breaking down? Have your best friend, spouse, drinking buddy, whatever-hit you in the knee with a bat. Are you breaking down.

Also, Fan76 just broke down all types of common sense and he got ignored.

It needs to stop that anytime the Pittsburg Steelers lose a game that it was due to "lack of preparation", "game planning", "heart", or some other sports cliche. NFL games are not played on paper. As Herm Edwards said "that's why we play the games".

Logic, reason, and any given Sunday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TeeTee]

I personally don't understand how anyone can love or respect Belicheat.

he's a cheater, which will forever be his legacy...

I'm pretty sure four rings will be his legacy, if not 5 after this season.

[tube517]

*

Sent from my SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

[Drazo85]

I personally don't understand how anyone can love or respect Belicheat.

he's a cheater, which will forever be his legacy...


Fuck that cheating piece of shit. I would rather die stabing myself with spoon than give that cheater credit for any of his regular season wins, let alone superbowl rings. Cheating motherfucker.

[86WARD]

Break down? Seriously? Drop a refrigerator on your foot. See what happens. Are you breaking down? Have your best friend, spouse, drinking buddy, whatever-hit you in the knee with a bat. Are you breaking down.

Also, Fan76 just broke down all types of common sense and he got ignored.

It needs to stop that anytime the Pittsburg Steelers lose a game that it was due to "lack of preparation", "game planning", "heart", or some other sports cliche. NFL games are not played on paper. As Herm Edwards said "that's why we play the games".

Logic, reason, and any given Sunday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

76 had a great post.

It's the way the Steelers play and lose at times and how it's repeated time and time again that, I think, most people get upset and turn to those "cliches" that you mentioned. When there's a "pattern" to the losses, that's where it becomes a "problem" for fans...just a thought...could be off base.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Fuck that cheating piece of shit. I would rather die stabing myself with spoon than give that cheater credit for any of his regular season wins, let alone superbowl rings. Cheating motherfucker.

well put, that pretty much sums up how I feel about Belicheat**** and the Cheatriots**** also...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kZqEqt5TQQw/VL_c7ngjNAI/AAAAAAAAAVY/E9z2nxZ4mQU/w506-h469/new-england-patriots-cheatriots.png

[zoneblitzerII]

No. Too sloppy and undisciplined. When he first burst on the scene he gave this team life, then complacency has set in regards to discipline. They have gotten progressively sloppy over the years and it showed in their last Super Bowl against the Pack when they were a turnover machine entering the contest.

[teegre]

I really wish you could see
The future and were 100% correct!

I can... and, I am.

Want proof? When Hines Ward is inducted into the HOF, you will cheer wildly.



BOOM!!! I just blew your mind, didn't I???

[Craic]

I'm pretty sure four rings will be his legacy, if not 5 after this season.

No, 4 rings with an asterisk indicating the Pats* have been suspected by the league of cheating every time they won a SB will be his legacy.

[fansince'76]

I can... and, I am.

Want proof? When Hines Ward is inducted into the HOF, you will cheer wildly.



BOOM!!! I just blew your mind, didn't I???


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGYQh0eZkRo

:chuckle:

[86WARD]

:rofl2: