We should probably start worrying about this

[Mojouw]

Despite all of the talking about who is or is not "clutch" and play calling and clock management; we are avoiding the real issue. It is an old and familiar one - the offensive line. I see two main issues:

1. Cody Wallace is simply not very good. He isn't going to get any better any time soon either. Against any type of above average DT, Wallace ends up in the backfield on roller skates. Steelers need to hope that Pouncey can come back and come back well.

2. Villenueva is not a terrible LT. It is amazing he is playing as good as he is, but his inexperience and technical flaws are starting to wear through. He got Ben just absolutely leveled once on Sunday when Aldon Smith just rocked him back on his heels with a punch to the chest and then cut underneath Villenueva before he could recover. I am by no means saying that Ben is hurt because Villenueva was the LT, but watch the play again. Then watch it another time - Smith just abuses AV on that play and sacks Roethlisberger. Villeneuva also looked awkard and a beat slow in some run blocking as well. Is it a terrible situation? Of course not. I mean the dude hasn't really even played LT before. It is an incredible achievement that he is playing as well as he is and isn't just a Jonathan Scott turnstile out there. A further testament to his abilities is that the Steelers are only rarely giving him help. They simply left him alone on Aldon Smith's drunk ass all day and said - "good luck". For the most part that faith was rewarded and Villenueva stymied one of the better pass rushers in the league - when he is sober. But as Villeneuva puts more plays on film, I think pass rushers are going to identify and develop more ways of attacking and defeating him in the pass rush. Something to monitor. Beachum may be making money as we speak!

Am I just being negative here, or does anyone else see this as a problem?

[fansince'76]

Am I just being negative here, or does anyone else see this as a problem?
Yes, but I think it's mitigated to a great degree by Munchak. I shudder to think being down 2 OL and how bad it would be if Bicknell were still there. :horror:

With Bicknell, the OL was a complete cluster even when they were all completely healthy, which lasted for all of one series on opening day in 2013, thanks in no small part to his shitty coaching. Kinda telling that the more his responsibilities were removed during that season, the better the OL got.

The Steelers need to do whatever it takes to keep Munchak. Give him a huge raise, name him co-head coach, whatever.

[tube517]

Well, I think we are all concerned about the OL depth but with Ben down all the "attention" is on him.

We have nobody else behind Big Al . Mike Adams is now a ghost and will probably be sizing a Cardinal or Titans uniform soon. I know they signed an ex Titan that Munchak knows but who else do we have??

At least Munch is here, as FS stated above.

[86WARD]

I think for what Villeneuva is and given the situation that he has played well. Not great but good enough for a back up. There's still a lot for him to learn, but I think he's far from the turnstile days that we used to witness. Wallace on the other hand is pretty bad. But not "Sean Mahan bad". Lol.

[Mojouw]

I think you all are talking me a off the ledge a bit here. I actually think AV is a great 3rd tackle and may have the ability to be molded into a starter - just worries me about how large the bumps in the road will be getting there.

Wallace is bad. Like they need to get a better back-up this off-season bad. But 86 is right, no one is worse than Mahan.

[TeeTee]

I don't see it. Maybe we are forgetting how terrible this OL was between 2011 and 2013. It was dog crap.

Wallace is bad. But as a whole, this unit is at least decent. Even when Jones came in, he had enough time to find the open man and deliver the ball. We had a decent running game, which means the OL did its job. Vill is decent, Gilbert is some how not that bad. DD is solid.

[Edman]

Cody Wallace is simply not very good. He isn't going to get any better any time soon either. Against any type of above average DT, Wallace ends up in the backfield on roller skates. Steelers need to hope that Pouncey can come back and come back well.

Pittsburgh: The Only place where we crucify backups for not playing like starters.

A backup Center is struggling against upper-tier D-Linemen? Yeah, that's why they're Upper-Tier D-Linemen. Pouncey got his lunch eaten by Haloti Ngata nearly every time they played. Guess that means Pouncey is waste of money.

Cody Wallace is no Pro-Bowler, but to say he is "bad" is stretching it.

I've seen bad Steeler O-Linemen these past couple years. Wallace is nowhere near bad.

[Mojouw]

Pittsburgh: The Only place where we crucify backups for not playing like starters.

A backup Center is struggling against upper-tier D-Linemen? Yeah, that's why they're Upper-Tier D-Linemen. Pouncey got his lunch eaten by Haloti Ngata nearly every time they played. Guess that means Pouncey is waste of money.

Cody Wallace is no Pro-Bowler, but to say he is "bad" is stretching it.

I've seen bad Steeler O-Linemen these past couple years. Wallace is nowhere near bad.

I get what you are saying. I really do. I just feel that Wallace is closer to Mahan than league average or so. It is a position that the Steelers tried to improve over the off-season. Didn't work out.

But Wallace is not really even a good back-up. He gets caved in even against non upper tier D linemen.

I acknowledge that I may be biased in my evaluation - but I think Walllace is priority to improve over this off-season.

[Rotorhead]

AV is playing great considering his past, this is basically his 2nd year ever playing OL, and his first at T. As for Wallace, I recall a few times Ben seemed to have minutes in the pocket this season. Plus we just rushed for almost 200yds on one of the top rushing D's this season. Wallace may get overwhelmed at times by elite DT's, but he is by no means terrible. Remember he is replacing an All-Pro. Our OL is definitely not a liability considering we lost our starting C and LT for the season.

[lipps83]

Watch a game from 2011 or 2012. That is a bad offensive line. This line has been playing great down an all pro center and you also are down to your 3rd string left tackle, arguably the most important piece of the line since he protects the QB's blindside.

I will not complain with the way they have been playing. At all.

[Mojouw]

Tons of great points here. I guess I should clarify, I do not currently see the line play as a big problem or even something to actively complain about. I was just thinking about the game the other night and couldn't get Wallace's penalties and lack of push out of my head. Combine that with a raw LT and I was wondering if there was something to be concerned about.

Raiders are not known for their overall pass rush. But Denver is. Seattle is. Denver's pass rush has totally destroyed multiple team's offensive timing this season already.

I am likely getting ahead of myself, but I'm more thinking for down the road later in the season.

Likley should just stop worrying about it and enjoy the win!

[steelreserve]

Much ado about nothing. Sacks are down from two and three years ago, and our rushing game kicks ass. Most importantly, even though they don't keep official stats on this, it's rare to see the opponents getting pressure consistently enough to affect the game.

No, it's not perfect, but we're missing the starters at two of the most important positions, duh. They have still been more than adequate. Sacks and heavy pressure are still a once-in-a-while thing. Compare that to any time from roughly 2007-12 and it is night and day. You always wish the backups came in and played as well as the starters, but if they did, they'd be starters. Villanueva vs. Jonathan Scott. Wallace vs. Mahan. Yeah, it could be a hell of a lot worse.

[Count Steeler]

Injuries suck. They should start considering putting in Legursky over Wallace.

Next year, if they can work out the contracts, Vill at LT, Beachum at LG, Pouncey at C, DeCastro at RG and Gilbert at RT. Yeah, pretty solid. And who knows what will be available in the draft, because we know we are not drafting secondary help until the 3rd round.

[teegre]

Next year, if they can work out the contracts, Vill at LT, Beachum at LG, Pouncey at C, DeCastro at RG and Gilbert at RT.

Yes!!!

I've averred that Beachum would be an amazing LG (even better than he is at LT). Imagine him pulling to the right, just as adults as DD pulls to the left... and, him, DD, & Pouncey pulling all in one direction. :chills:

Money. I always hear that he won't be affordable, because he'll want LT money. I'd sign him and DD for LT money (lower tier LT money) in order to have the best O-line in football.

[Steelman]

Yeah Wallace isn't great but if this was the pre-Pouncey era we'd ready to hand him a pretty fat contract after the Sean Mahan days. (Just mentioning that name gives me the heebie jeebies...) Wallace reminds me more of Hartwig anyway, which isn't much of an upgrade, but still. :chuckle:

I think AV is playing very well given the situation. Ben had a clean pocket all day until that freak injury. Can't ask for much more than that from a guy who basically has no real experience.

[Craic]

Yeah Wallace isn't great but if this was the pre-Pouncey era we'd ready to hand him a pretty fat contract after the Sean Mahan days. (Just mentioning that name gives me the heebie jeebies...) Wallace reminds me more of Hartwig anyway, which isn't much of an upgrade, but still.
No way . . . Wallace is a whole lot better than Hartwig, who, IMO, was a downgrade from Mahan. It was like removing a bald tire a bit low on air pressure and sticking on the balloon spare - still low on air pressure. Wallace is a ton better than either of them.

[Hawkman]

Yeah Wallace isn't great but if this was the pre-Pouncey era we'd ready to hand him a pretty fat contract after the Sean Mahan days. (Just mentioning that name gives me the heebie jeebies...) Wallace reminds me more of Hartwig anyway, which isn't much of an upgrade, but still. :chuckle:

I think AV is playing very well given the situation. Ben had a clean pocket all day until that freak injury. Can't ask for much more than that from a guy who basically has no real experience.

Didn't we win a Super Bowl with Hartwig?

[fansince'76]

No way . . . Wallace is a whole lot better than Hartwig, who, IMO, was a downgrade from Mahan. It was like removing a bald tire a bit low on air pressure and sticking on the balloon spare - still low on air pressure. Wallace is a ton better than either of them.

:iagree:

Hartwig the Human Speed Bump...

[fansince'76]

Didn't we win a Super Bowl with Hartwig?

He almost cost us a SB...

[teegre]

Re: Wallace
Mike Webster > Dermontti Dawson > Maurkice Pouncey > Jeff Hartings > Fernando Valesco > Justin Hartwig > Cody Wallace > a three-year old > a chair > Sean Mahan

Re: Villanueva:
Khalil Mack's stat-line: 0-0-0-0

[MrPgh]

Re: Villanueva:
Khalil Mack's stat-line: 0-0-0-0

Too bad he didn't stop Aldon Smith when he needed to.

[Steelman]

No way . . . Wallace is a whole lot better than Hartwig, who, IMO, was a downgrade from Mahan. It was like removing a bald tire a bit low on air pressure and sticking on the balloon spare - still low on air pressure. Wallace is a ton better than either of them.

Sorry, I didn't mean that to say I thought Hartwig was better than Wallace, only that Hartwig sucked less ass than Mahan.

I meant his skillset reminds me more of Hartwig, but I agree that Wallace is significantly better than both of them.

- - - Updated - - -


Didn't we win a Super Bowl with Hartwig?

I think we won a Super Bowl in spite of Hartwig.

Hard to believe that Ben was remotely effective, let alone won Super Bowls, with that O-Line back then. Kinda puts all of the "Ben's always hurt" line into perspective doesn't it? Ask David Carr his opinion on that.

[86WARD]

Re: Wallace
Mike Webster > Dermontti Dawson > Maurkice Pouncey > Jeff Hartings > Fernando Valesco > Justin Hartwig > Cody Wallace > a three-year old > a chair > Sean Mahan

Re: Villanueva:
Khalil Mack's stat-line: 0-0-0-0

I would say this is an extremely accurate statement!!

[86WARD]

Re: Villanueva:
Khalil Mack's stat-line: 0-0-0-0

Mack was on the other side. That credit goes to Gilbert...who by the way is quietly having a really, really, really good season. Kept Mack off the stat sheet this past week. Handled Justin Houston holding him to one solo tackle.

[teegre]

Mack was on the other side. That credit goes to Gilbert...who by the way is quietly having a really, really, really good season. Kept Mack off the stat sheet this past week. Handled Justin Houston holding him to one solo tackle.

You're right.

I've always liked Gilbert. Way back in 2010, I wished for a right side of the O-line of Pouncey-DD-Gilbert. It came to fruition, and I haven't been disappointed.

- - - Updated - - -


Too bad he didn't stop Aldon Smith when he needed to.

Alas, that is true... it only takes once.

[Craic]

Re: Wallace
Mike Webster > Dermontti Dawson > Maurkice Pouncey > Jeff Hartings > Fernando Valesco > Justin Hartwig > Cody Wallace > a three-year old > a chair > Sean Mahan


I usually agree with you, but thinking Hartwig was better than Wallace, a three-year old, or a chair is pretty off, IMO. As I said, moving from Mahan to Hartwig was a downgrade (push me hard enough, I might accept a cross-grade, but in no way was he ever an upgrade over Mahan - and that's not meant to speak good of Mahan, but rather, speak as bad about Hartwig).

[teegre]

I usually agree with you, but thinking Hartwig was better than Wallace, a three-year old, or a chair is pretty off, IMO. As I said, moving from Mahan to Hartwig was a downgrade (push me hard enough, I might accept a cross-grade, but in no way was he ever an upgrade over Mahan - and that's not meant to speak good of Mahan, but rather, speak as bad about Hartwig).

Interesting.

I could be convinced that Hartiwg is below Wallace. My memory of Hartwig is foggy, but I do know he wasn't great (much like how the play at center is currently).

But, I do indeed believe that both of them are far better than Mahan. Hmmm... consider this: Mahan played next to Faneca, which probably masked a lot of his shortcomings. Whereas, Hartwig played next to Chris Kemoholdingpenalty and Darnell Stapleton; so, in turn, his imperfections were made blatantly obvious.

[86WARD]

Given the choice, I'm taking Hartwig 100 out of 100 times versus Mahan for exactly the reason teegre stated above. Mahan had better talent around him and he was still beyond terrible...