Thoughts on Oakland Game

[ETL]

1. Antonio Brown deserves all the money he get and probably more. He basically won this game for us with his long catch and run at the end of the game. Oh yea, he was pretty good before that play as well.

2. I'm glad Boswell missed a kick. That won't be hanging over him. He's still pretty good

3. I am disappointed in Shazier. I thought he would light up the league after the 49ers game but he has been average since then. He makes a play here and there but gives up plays too - as noted during the Oakland TE touchdown. He has the physical ability like no one else but he still doesn't have it between the ears yet.

4. Mike Mitchell - like him or hate him but the man can hit and he plays like a lot of the old Steelers players I remember: Ryan Clark, Carnell Lake and Donnie Shell

5. DeAngelo is a god send. We could have gone far if he was our Backup RB last year.

6. Keeping Nix may have been all worth it with that one forced fumble he caused. I could see him cutting through the crowd to rocket his helmet into the ball.

7. Ben Ben Ben. Ben gets injured FREQUENTLY because of the way he plays. He holds the ball waiting for a play to develop. Brady doesn't do this. He releases the ball very quickly but Ben hold the ball and gets hit and have players land on him. I personally think Ben needs to change this. Because he won't last and if he's not on the field he's not good to us. It's the same when they told RG3 to stop running with the ball - he was getting hit to much and getting injured. RG3 was a very dynamic QB that led his team to the playoffs as a rookie but that style of play however successful to him would eventually hurt him. I know there's a lot of Steelers fans out there who love seeing Ben do what he does - but he can't continue doing it because he will get hurt. Both his leg injuries this year were due to him trying to extend the play. He may succeed now and then but the overall risk now outweigh the benefits.

[Steelman]

7. Ben Ben Ben. Ben gets injured FREQUENTLY because of the way he plays. He holds the ball waiting for a play to develop. Brady doesn't do this. He releases the ball very quickly but Ben hold the ball and gets hit and have players land on him. I personally think Ben needs to change this. Because he won't last and if he's not on the field he's not good to us. It's the same when they told RG3 to stop running with the ball - he was getting hit to much and getting injured. RG3 was a very dynamic QB that led his team to the playoffs as a rookie but that style of play however successful to him would eventually hurt him. I know there's a lot of Steelers fans out there who love seeing Ben do what he does - but he can't continue doing it because he will get hurt. Both his leg injuries this year were due to him trying to extend the play. He may succeed now and then but the overall risk now outweigh the benefits.

Sorry ETL, I couldn't disagree more about this analysis. Comparing Ben Roethlisberger to RG3 is just ludicrous, particularly with the circumstances involved in both injuries. The knee injury was the result of an illegal low-blow that was borderline dirty on a play that forced him to step up into the pocket like every quarterback in the league would do. The foot/ankle injury came after Ben had been in a clean pocket most of the game and hadn't been sacked yet if I recall. He tries to spin out of it like every QB in the league would do (literally saw the same play by at least 6 quarterbacks just today) and in a freak play his ankle got crushed by the defender.

[Shoes]

Sorry ETL, I couldn't disagree more about this analysis. Comparing Ben Roethlisberger to RG3 is just ludicrous, particularly with the circumstances involved in both injuries. The knee injury was the result of an illegal low-blow that was borderline dirty on a play that forced him to step up into the pocket like every quarterback in the league would do. The foot/ankle injury came after Ben had been in a clean pocket most of the game and hadn't been sacked yet if I recall. He tries to spin out of it like every QB in the league would do (literally saw the same play by at least 6 quarterbacks just today) and in a freak play his ankle got crushed by the defender.


Agreed, it's impossible to hinder these kind of injuries. As for Ben changing his game, he has and demonstrated that a few time today by throwing the ball clearly out of bounds. Up until Ben's knee injury, he didn't miss a game since 2012

[86WARD]

Yeah...Bens actually been very durable...

[Mojouw]

Do some of you even watch the games? Nothing about Bens playing style contributed to his injuries. On both plays the defender just beat the blocking scheme and got in the pocket early in the play.

As to Brady, I seem to remember him getting a knee shredded on a similar play a few years back. Guess he better change his playing style.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[86WARD]

Do some of you even watch the games? Nothing about Bens playing style contributed to his injuries. On both plays the defender just beat the blocking scheme and got in the pocket early in the play.

As to Brady, I seem to remember him getting a knee shredded on a similar play a few years back. Guess he better change his playing style.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That hit on Brady against the Chiefs is what spawned that penalty rule if I remember correctly...no?

[salamander]

I agree with most of the OP's points except for the one on Ben. I'm sick of this team and it's players being compared to the Cheats in any way.

[Steeldude]

I would like to see some consistent football on offense rather than trying to force splash plays. Wouldn't it be better if the Steelers' offense could just impose their will on others rather than hoping for splash plays?

It was nice to see them use Williams the way they used Bell. In the future I think some runs need to go to Todman to keep Williams healthy and fresh.

What is up with Wheaton?

[teegre]

That hit on Brady against the Chiefs is what spawned that penalty rule if I remember correctly...no?

Yes... the Marcus Pollard rule.

[ETL]

Yeah...Bens actually been very durable...

He was injury free only the past two years. Year and year before then he was injured and missed games. And during those two injury free years he bought into Haleys system with quicker throws and less sacks.

If Ben's injury are a "fluke" then you are saying it's just a matter of statistics - that other QBs will be injured too and it's a matter of time. Well how many times has Brady been injured and missed games?
Just once.

Brady knows - throw the ball and you don't get sacked or hit.

I guarantee 100% - if Ben doesn't adapt - he will get injured again.

[ETL]

Sorry ETL, I couldn't disagree more about this analysis. Comparing Ben Roethlisberger to RG3 is just ludicrous, particularly with the circumstances involved in both injuries. The knee injury was the result of an illegal low-blow that was borderline dirty on a play that forced him to step up into the pocket like every quarterback in the league would do. The foot/ankle injury came after Ben had been in a clean pocket most of the game and hadn't been sacked yet if I recall. He tries to spin out of it like every QB in the league would do (literally saw the same play by at least 6 quarterbacks just today) and in a freak play his ankle got crushed by the defender.

So Shazier is a "borderline dirty" player? If Carr suffered a serious knee injury because of Shazier's boneheaded play -then according to what you see - he's a dirty player.

I see this all the time. When Steeler players do questionable things - they are being "aggressive" or just not thinking but when other players do it to a Steeler - they are "dirty"

also, I stand by my original comment - Ben's style of play places him at greater risk of injury. It's not fluke or just bad luck. There are other QBs who do not get injured as much as Ben and if Ben wasn't as tough as he is - he would be out much more.

[ETL]

I agree with most of the OP's points except for the one on Ben. I'm sick of this team and it's players being compared to the Cheats in any way.

Brady being smart about throwing it early is not cheating. I'm just saying there is a reason why he's playing game after game year after year and it's not because of a fluke. There is actually something definitive that he's doing to prevent injuries.

Just because your worst enemy is doing something well doesn't negate the value of the act. I know you hate seeing anything that may smell like a complement for a patriot - I understand. But I say it just because I really want Ben to be the QB of the steelers for a long time and at this time - I am not feeling that way about him.

[Mojouw]

It is also his style of play that brought 2 Lombardi trophies and a 3rd SB appearance behind some of the worst offensive lines I've ever seen.

This argument is just nonsensical.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fansince'76]

It is also his style of play that brought 2 Lombardi trophies and a 3rd SB appearance behind some of the worst offensive lines I've ever seen.

This argument is just nonsensical.

Agreed. And his "injury history" is so overblown it's laughable. Before missing 4 games this season (so far), the only other time he missed as many was back in 2005 when he missed 4 games after Jeremiah Castillo nailed him in the knee. He missed 4 games in 2010, but that was only because Goodell had to make an example of him to "prove" he wasn't a racist when it comes to disciplining players. :coffee:

[StillCurtains]

1. Antonio Brown deserves all the money he get and probably more. He basically won this game for us with his long catch and run at the end of the game. Oh yea, he was pretty good before that play as well.

2. I'm glad Boswell missed a kick. That won't be hanging over him. He's still pretty good

3. I am disappointed in Shazier. I thought he would light up the league after the 49ers game but he has been average since then. He makes a play here and there but gives up plays too - as noted during the Oakland TE touchdown. He has the physical ability like no one else but he still doesn't have it between the ears yet.

4. Mike Mitchell - like him or hate him but the man can hit and he plays like a lot of the old Steelers players I remember: Ryan Clark, Carnell Lake and Donnie Shell

5. DeAngelo is a god send. We could have gone far if he was our Backup RB last year.

6. Keeping Nix may have been all worth it with that one forced fumble he caused. I could see him cutting through the crowd to rocket his helmet into the ball.

7. Ben Ben Ben. Ben gets injured FREQUENTLY because of the way he plays. He holds the ball waiting for a play to develop. Brady doesn't do this. He releases the ball very quickly but Ben hold the ball and gets hit and have players land on him. I personally think Ben needs to change this. Because he won't last and if he's not on the field he's not good to us. It's the same when they told RG3 to stop running with the ball - he was getting hit to much and getting injured. RG3 was a very dynamic QB that led his team to the playoffs as a rookie but that style of play however successful to him would eventually hurt him. I know there's a lot of Steelers fans out there who love seeing Ben do what he does - but he can't continue doing it because he will get hurt. Both his leg injuries this year were due to him trying to extend the play. He may succeed now and then but the overall risk now outweigh the benefits.


I don't think Ben should change his game. It's what he is. He makes plays when things break down more times than not. Think about it, if you face a 4th down at a point in the game where you absolutely have to get a first to have a chance to win or tie, if the pass rush is in pursuit, the play is over if it's Brady or Manning. Ben gives you a chance as he's statisticaly the best in the league against the rush.

[StillCurtains]

A few things... What happened to the defense? Very sloppy today. There are a few constant things that this team does that I wish they would stop.

1. Stop giving offenses these fast starts with quick touchdowns. It really stymies the opportunity to build momentum on the opposing team. Even when we score a touchdown first, we tend to let the opposing team to come right back and get a touchdown of their own.

2. We have got to stop letting the opposing team's best receiving threat uncovered.

3. I wish we would please stop having Timmons covering TE's and WR's deep downfield. The results are always the same. Why in the world do we keep doing this?

4. I wish we would stop throwing deep on 3rd and manageable. I know that we had a good amount of success going downfield today, but it's a low percentage play that is very hard to make. They need to run high percentage plays on 3rd and manageable to get the first down, then you can take your shots downfield.
When you miss on those plays on manageable 3rd downs, they're absolutely frustrating drive killers.

[Steelman]

So Shazier is a "borderline dirty" player? If Carr suffered a serious knee injury because of Shazier's boneheaded play -then according to what you see - he's a dirty player.

I see this all the time. When Steeler players do questionable things - they are being "aggressive" or just not thinking but when other players do it to a Steeler - they are "dirty"

also, I stand by my original comment - Ben's style of play places him at greater risk of injury. It's not fluke or just bad luck. There are other QBs who do not get injured as much as Ben and if Ben wasn't as tough as he is - he would be out much more.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but I think your premise is flawed. You wouldn't have said these things after the SF game. You're basing your premise on prior history from a different era in Ben's play style and what I believe are two fluke injuries.

Watch this again http://thebiglead.com/2015/09/27/ben-roethlisberger-suffered-ugly-leg-injury-vs-rams/ and tell me that's something unusual that only Ben does, or that it differs greatly from something any quarterback in the league would do?

Watch this again http://thebiglead.com/2015/11/08/ben-roethlisberger-leaves-stadium-for-evaluation-on-leg-injury/ and tell me that's not just a fluke thing?

Regarding Shazer-- Firstly I said the play was borderline dirty, not the player. I can't find a replay, but what I saw with the Shazier hit was a questionable hold by the offensive lineman who pushed him downward and caused Shazier's forward momentum to hit him low. He technically hit him in the lower thigh which according to the rules should be legal but I can see why they would call it. Mark Barron was already on the ground and appeared to lunge into Ben's lower leg. Different plays. I do think Shazier probably should have tried to avoid a low-ish hit but momentum at that point is hard to redirect.

[MrPgh]

He was injury free only the past two years. Year and year before then he was injured and missed games. And during those two injury free years he bought into Haleys system with quicker throws and less sacks.

If Ben's injury are a "fluke" then you are saying it's just a matter of statistics - that other QBs will be injured too and it's a matter of time. Well how many times has Brady been injured and missed games?
Just once.

Brady knows - throw the ball and you don't get sacked or hit.

I guarantee 100% - if Ben doesn't adapt - he will get injured again.

From your posts on this thread, it's pretty easy to tell you didn't watch the play Ben got hurt on. There was ONE sack in the entire game, and that was it. If there's anyone to blame for it, it's the left tackle who allowed Aldon Smith to manhandle him out of the way to get to Ben.

[Steelman]

1. Antonio Brown deserves all the money he get and probably more. He basically won this game for us with his long catch and run at the end of the game. Oh yea, he was pretty good before that play as well.

2. I'm glad Boswell missed a kick. That won't be hanging over him. He's still pretty good

3. I am disappointed in Shazier. I thought he would light up the league after the 49ers game but he has been average since then. He makes a play here and there but gives up plays too - as noted during the Oakland TE touchdown. He has the physical ability like no one else but he still doesn't have it between the ears yet.

4. Mike Mitchell - like him or hate him but the man can hit and he plays like a lot of the old Steelers players I remember: Ryan Clark, Carnell Lake and Donnie Shell

5. DeAngelo is a god send. We could have gone far if he was our Backup RB last year.

6. Keeping Nix may have been all worth it with that one forced fumble he caused. I could see him cutting through the crowd to rocket his helmet into the ball.

Didn't want to only harp on one of your points, because I liked most of your other thoughts here.

2. I can't ever feel glad that somebody missed a kick. I'm sure Boz wishes he had that one back to try again. But he did come through in the clutch with a high-pressure kick in what was kind of an odd situation there at the end with the timeouts and such. I think that will be the takeaway from this game for him. I really like what he's been able to do. We all love Sushi but Boz just might be a better kicker in the long run.

3. I'm not too worried about Shazier. That shoulder stinger that lingered for almost a month. I think that got lost with Ben and Bell and all the other injuries, but I imagine it's hard to just recreate that magic like against SF. Yeah he gave up a bad one, but to be fair to him, Carr was lighting up the whole defense most of the game. I think he'll settle back in possibly as soon as next week against Cleveland put up some more monster performances. This defense has shown an ability to bounce back.

4. I am very glad that Mitchell is making some splash plays this year. I can appreciate a hard hitter. I still don't like him though. He's a knucklehead and needs to cut his bullshit antics. It gets embarrassing at times. People are more intimidated if you knock somebody out and walk away. Plus half the time he's celebrating plays that the results don't even favor us. It's just dumb. That's the difference between Mitchell and Ryan Clark, IMO.

5. Very much agreed. Hands down one of the best FA signings in the last few years, maybe more. Having DW might be what saves our season.

[86WARD]

Agreed. And his "injury history" is so overblown it's laughable. Before missing 4 games this season (so far), the only other time he missed as many was back in 2005 when he missed 4 games after Jeremiah Castillo nailed him in the knee. He missed 4 games in 2010, but that was only because Goodell had to make an example of him to "prove" he wasn't a racist when it comes to disciplining players. :coffee:

Thanks...saved me time looking it up myself. Ben takes a lot of hits...it's his style of play and every time he gets a ding on him, this topic arises. Let's be honest...it's not like he's Maurkice Pouncey or Le'Veon Bell here...

:stirpot:

[TeeTee]

Do some of you even watch the games? Nothing about Bens playing style contributed to his injuries. On both plays the defender just beat the blocking scheme and got in the pocket early in the play.

As to Brady, I seem to remember him getting a knee shredded on a similar play a few years back. Guess he better change his playing style.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, have to disagree. Brady did miss a year from an ACL, but other than that, he is there to play every game. Ben isn't.. Ben's style of play absolutely makes him get injured far more often than other franchise QBs. It is a fact.

- - - Updated - - -



4. I am very glad that Mitchell is making some splash plays this year. I can appreciate a hard hitter. I still don't like him though. He's a knucklehead and needs to cut his bullshit antics. It gets embarrassing at times. People are more intimidated if you knock somebody out and walk away. Plus half the time he's celebrating plays that the results don't even favor us. It's just dumb. That's the difference between Mitchell and Ryan Clark, IMO.



THIS. He keeps making more plays every game. But when he celebrates a hit, after giving up a 1st down, he looks like a total ass clown. Even high school kids should know better than to do this. You can just TELL he's the kind of guy who would be an asshole all the time. He's dumber than a bag of hammers.

[MrPgh]

Maybe had the Steelers put out some better offensive lines Ben would not have gotten hurt as often. Besides, his injury history is something yinzers overblow anyways. Bell has gotten hurt in each of his three seasons. Should he change his playing style too?

I have an idea! When the Steelers have the ball on offense they should just kneel down every play. That way no one gets hurt.

[Mojouw]

Sorry, have to disagree. Brady did miss a year from an ACL, but other than that, he is there to play every game. Ben isn't.. Ben's style of play absolutely makes him get injured far more often than other franchise QBs. It is a fact.

No. It isn't. Except for his second year - all of Ben's major injuries, which are basically restricted to this year, have been due to plays that would have injured any starting QB. He has gotten a ton of minor injuries that could be attributed to playing style - but those account for 6 games missed over 11 years.

Balance that against 3 SB appearances and 2 Lombardi trophies.

I know what side of the scales I want to be on. Do you?

[TeeTee]

My observations.

1.) We got what we thought we'd be getting all season: A game where we had to score deep in the 30's in order to win. Most of us were noting how we didn't have to score in the 30's every game to win; that our D was much better than that. Well, this is the game where our D was shredded and scoring lots of points was the only way to win. Will this be the trend? Hope not. But it sure was this game.

2.) How badly does Brown want Ben to play? He went from best in the world, to a no one, statistically, until this game. I remember watching Flipper Anderson getting 300 yards receiving in one game, and I thought it was pure insanity and likely to never happen again, and then AB nearly dropped 300 on us.

3.) You Blake haters are something else. Once again, he made key plays. We are lucky to have him, being that Tomlin has mad hate for Boink.

4.) I actually thought the Raider WRs hurt their team in a lot of situations. Why was Crabtree always too close to the sidelines, just barely going out of bounds? It happened all day. And, is it just me, or did Cooper not look like the "upcoming super star" we kept hearing about. He looked overweight to me. I thought he was gonna be a handful but that never materialized. I expected a beast. He did grab 7 for 88, but eh? Compared to AB he was a tadpool.

5.) Thank God we picked up D Williams, but I'd like to see them mix in some touches from other backs or DW ain't gonna last very long. He is solid. But got to cut back his touches some. Cool Shades has a history of piling on too many carries to one back. He needs to F----g wake up and knock that shit off.

6.) My wife asked why Cool Shades doesn't apply logic in his decisions to go for 2. I said, "He is proud to not think." I mean, saying "I coach from my gut" is kind of another way of saying he doesn't use logic and clear thought to make decisions, and he's proud of it. <shaking head>

7.) We are lucking Murray went down. He might have been the difference between us winning. Got to credit Mitchell for that one. That hit didn't look like much, but it must have been well-placed. Dude was dinged for sure.

Can we beat a weak Browns' team with Landry Jones? We should be able to, but I am certainly not taking it for granted. This will be the Browns' Super Bowl this year.

- - - Updated - - -


No. It isn't. Except for his second year - all of Ben's major injuries, which are basically restricted to this year, have been due to plays that would have injured any starting QB. He has gotten a ton of minor injuries that could be attributed to playing style - but those account for 6 games missed over 11 years.

Balance that against 3 SB appearances and 2 Lombardi trophies.

I know what side of the scales I want to be on. Do you?

http://sportsinjurypredictor.com/injury-predictor/player/6770

This doesn't even account for 20-13 - 2015.

[Mojouw]

http://sportsinjurypredictor.com/injury-predictor/player/6770

This doesn't even account for 20-13 - 2015.

Fine - you really want to go into this game by game? Actually take the time then. As usual your analysis and logic is lazy and sloppy. So here we go, I'll subject everyone to this non-sense.

2004 - Starts and finishes every game except Weeks 1-2 (maddox) and Week 17 - rested for playoffs.

2005 - 4 games to a variety of knee injuries (Weeks 5, 8, 9, 10). Team won the SB that year - so I guess it worked out.

2006 - Missed the opener because his appendix burst. The one game your website mentions that Roethlisberger had to leave, it was according to the play by play ONE drive (Batch threw 11 passes) in the last 2 minutes of the fourth quarter when the Steelers were down by 24 points. So, yup, that one hurt.

2007 - Played every game except Week 17 where he was listed as "probable" with a shoulder injury. Did not play that game as the team had clinched home-field for the WC game already.

2008 - Played every game. Won SB.

2009 - The game logs show that Ben played every snap against the Bengals in each game - so I think this website got it wrong here. He did miss one game against the Ravens with a concussion suffered from a knee to the head taken in OT against the Raiders.

2010 - Weeks 1-4 suspended. Played every other game that season. All the way to the SB. So I guess, again, your BS website is just wrong. In fact, Pro Football Reference said he played against the Jets and threw 44 passes. Weird.

2011 - Injured against the Browns in Week 14. Returns to the game and finishes it. Plays Week 15 against the 49'ers and looks like a crippled gimp. Sits in Week 16 against the Ram - Batch guides team to the win. Starts Week 17 with a chance to win the Division. Plays shockingly well in WC game considering his foot/ankle injury.

2012 - Misses Weeks 10, 11, 12 from a sprained shoulder/rib injury suffered in Week 9 when Justin Houston laid him out.

2013 - Played All games

2014 - Played All games

2015 - Takes hit on blown block and injures knee. Takes hit on blown block and injures foot.

So, those are the actual facts. Took me 15 minutes to look up the information. Another 5 to type it up. What are we left with? Roethlisberger has appeared on the injury report a great deal. Most of the time he starts anyways and the Steelers win anyways. 16 (I was wrong when I said 15 in another post) total games prior to this year. 4 from a bullshit suspension, 4 from ONE knee injury, 1 from an appendix, 1 game from a concussion, 1 game from a high ankle sprain, 3 from a sprained/dislocated shoulder/rib injury, and 2 from being rested for the playoffs.

For those of you playing at home, that is ONLY 8 games in 11 years for football related injuries. Now this year we are talking about 5-6 games. That is actually an aberration and both hits had ZERO to do with playing style.

Can we move on and stop wasting time discussing things that don't actually exist?

[TeeTee]

Fine - you really want to go into this game by game? Actually take the time then. As usual your analysis and logic is lazy and sloppy. So here we go, I'll subject everyone to this non-sense.

Talk about lazy and sloppy.

2004 - Starts and finishes every game except Weeks 1-2 (maddox) and Week 17 - rested for playoffs.


2005 - 4 games to a variety of knee injuries (Weeks 5, 8, 9, 10). Team won the SB that year - so I guess it worked out.

So, because they won a ring, we can ignore the games Ben missed from injury? Nice logic there. You might want to attend a "logic 101" class. I don't have time to point out the rest of the illogic.

[Rotorhead]

Another thought on this game, maybe M Bryant wasn't completely recovered from whatever sickness he had last week, he just seemed to be off most of the game.

We left 14 on the field with drops and just plain unlucky crap (fumble recovery), we could have easily dropped a 50 burger on the Raiders.

Our Def did get gashed, they were due for a bad outing, every def had their bad days (see the Broncos def yesterday) and they still made some big plays. Glad our def bad day resulted in a W. One thing we need to figure out is how to stop the run in our nickel defense. That is the only time we were gashed by the run really. Timmons and Shazier need to figure out that part of their game. Spence played well when he was in, I would like to keep him for the long term. Maybe we can package up V Williams in a draft day trade, he is plenty good to get something for (I like him too, but we have 4 starters on the roster at ILB, we could stand to lose one for something).

[Mojouw]

Talk about lazy and sloppy.

2004 - Starts and finishes every game except Weeks 1-2 (maddox) and Week 17 - rested for playoffs.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/except

(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/except)Reading is FUNdamental. In case you don't remember, Maddox was named the starter out of camp over a certain rookie QB. It is also common practice to sit starters when you already have home field locked up through the playoffs. So EXCEPT for the weeks he wasn't ASKED to start by the team, Ben played every single game.



So, because they won a ring, we can ignore the games Ben missed from injury? Nice logic there. You might want to attend a "logic 101" class. I don't have time to point out the rest of the illogic.

Fine, I guess we aren't using SB championships as the measurement for a good season anymore. Not a problem. Want to use playing style then? Okay. Let's do that. Ben gets his knee hit in Week 5 against the Chargers. Misses Week 6 against Jacksonville. Plays Weeks 7 and 8. Sits Week 9, the Packers game - also known as that one time Duce Staley was awesome. Sits the next two (Weeks 10 and 11). Just wanted to lay that out, I was off in the original post because I didn't count the Week 4 bye properly. So he takes 1-3 hits on his knee in a season and has to move in and out of the line-up as he and the team try and manage the injury. What is the issue?

No matter how you want to dodge the issue, your original hypothesis that Ben Roethlisberger has a playing style that puts him out an unreasonable # of games for a franchise QB does not hold up.

1. He has not really missed that many games prior to this season. He played injured a ton - but so does everyone else.
2. He has played behind some of the worst lines that any franchise QB has ever had to.
3. The majority of his injuries - including this season - were not on plays where he was extending the play by holding the ball or running around. They were on plays where the pocket collapsed, usually in under 3 seconds, and unblocked players got free shots. That's gonna get your QB hurt no matter who you have back there.

[ETL]

Look guys - I'm on the same page as you in that I like Ben and I want him to be the QB for the Steelers for a long time. For some of you - STOP BEING SO INSECURE about what I am saying. I am not saying Ben is fragile and I am not saying that Brady is necessarily better than Ben.

What at I am saying is that Ben's style of play is increasing his risk of getting hurt. This exact sentiment was just echoed by Rodney Harrison and Mike Florio (cue the subject changers who now want to change the conversation to how Florio and Harrison are idiots).

I know Ben has won 2 SBs because I was there in person to see it. But I don't see how that is relevant to my point unless you are getting all INSECURE. For god sakes, lets preserve Ben so we can have him around a long time. If you think all this was just bad luck and he's gonna last in this league for years - I think you're wrong.

[silver & black]

I expected a beast. He did grab 7 for 88, but eh? Compared to AB he was a tadpool.

I didn't watch the game so, I can't comment on what he did in said game. I can tell you that he has absolutely been a beast from day one. The hype is real.... and deserved. As far as being a tadpole compared to Brown, well.............. he's a rookie! I'll take a rookie that performs like that every day! No disrespect meant with this post. I'm just sayin'. :wink02:

[86WARD]

How often was Tom Brady on the injury report? Three years straight?

[MrPgh]

Look guys - I'm on the same page as you in that I like Ben and I want him to be the QB for the Steelers for a long time. For some of you - STOP BEING SO INSECURE about what I am saying. I am not saying Ben is fragile and I am not saying that Brady is necessarily better than Ben.

What at I am saying is that Ben's style of play is increasing his risk of getting hurt. This exact sentiment was just echoed by Rodney Harrison and Mike Florio (cue the subject changers who now want to change the conversation to how Florio and Harrison are idiots).

I know Ben has won 2 SBs because I was there in person to see it. But I don't see how that is relevant to my point unless you are getting all INSECURE. For god sakes, lets preserve Ben so we can have him around a long time. If you think all this was just bad luck and he's gonna last in this league for years - I think you're wrong.

Except his style of play has nothing to do with his injuries this year. You're just complaining for the sake of complaining and quite frankly, you're acting like the worst kind of yinzer on the subject.

Bell has been hurt in each of his three seasons. Why aren't you bitching about his style of play too?

[fansince'76]

How often was Tom Brady on the injury report? Three years straight?

More like six. But that was absolutely bogus.

[hawaiiansteeler]

More like six. But that was absolutely bogus.

that was just Bill Belicheat being a genius...:wink02:

[ETL]

Except his style of play has nothing to do with his injuries this year. You're just complaining for the sake of complaining and quite frankly, you're acting like the worst kind of yinzer on the subject.

Bell has been hurt in each of his three seasons. Why aren't you bitching about his style of play too?

"complaining?" - how am I complaining? Who am I complaining to? And why do you think I'm "bitching" about it? I resent what you are saying. I am expressing my thoughts on how I think a great Steeler can last longer as a Steeler and you think it's complaining?

I have no idea why you would get upset about me trying to suggest that we preserve Ben and accuse me of complaining or bitching. To put it simply, I find your accusation simply idiotic

[ETL]

Honestly, why is what I suggest so threatening?

Lets say NONE of Ben's injuries in the past was due to his style of play. But doesn't my observation still hold? Doesn't quicker passes = less hits = less chance of injury? Isn't this logical?

Now let's say I disagree with you a little and think that some of his injuries are due to his style of play. So selfishly, I want Ben to play longer and suggest quicker passes = less hits = lower chance of injury. That's all.

I know some of you have disagreed with my original contention that his injuries were not due to his style of play. Fine - you and I disagree but no matter what caused it - we have an injured starting QB who is 33 years old and when he comes back if he throws quicker passes that equals less hits and that to me equals less risk of injury. I don't see what is so wrong with wanting to preserve Ben.

[MrPgh]

"complaining?" - how am I complaining? Who am I complaining to? And why do you think I'm "bitching" about it? I resent what you are saying. I am expressing my thoughts on how I think a great Steeler can last longer as a Steeler and you think it's complaining?

I have no idea why you would get upset about me trying to suggest that we preserve Ben and accuse me of complaining or bitching. To put it simply, I find your accusation simply idiotic

Because multiple posters on this thread have tried explaining to you that Ben's style of play has had nothing to do with his last two injuries and you don't seem capable of understanding that.

Also, I'll ask this again: should Bell change his style of play too? Injured in each of his three seasons.

[MrPgh]

Honestly, why is what I suggest so threatening?

Lets say NONE of Ben's injuries in the past was due to his style of play. But doesn't my observation still hold? Doesn't quicker passes = less hits = less chance of injury? Isn't this logical?

Now let's say I disagree with you a little and think that some of his injuries are due to his style of play. So selfishly, I want Ben to play longer and suggest quicker passes = less hits = lower chance of injury. That's all.

I know some of you have disagreed with my original contention that his injuries were not due to his style of play. Fine - you and I disagree but no matter what caused it - we have an injured starting QB who is 33 years old and when he comes back if he throws quicker passes that equals less hits and that to me equals less risk of injury. I don't see what is so wrong with wanting to preserve Ben.

Again, everything you speak of that could "preserve" Ben would not have done anything to avoid the last two injuries. Hence why you are complaining just for the sake of complaining.

[Count Steeler]

Honestly, why is what I suggest so threatening?

Lets say NONE of Ben's injuries in the past was due to his style of play. But doesn't my observation still hold? Doesn't quicker passes = less hits = less chance of injury? Isn't this logical?

Now let's say I disagree with you a little and think that some of his injuries are due to his style of play. So selfishly, I want Ben to play longer and suggest quicker passes = less hits = lower chance of injury. That's all.

I know some of you have disagreed with my original contention that his injuries were not due to his style of play. Fine - you and I disagree but no matter what caused it - we have an injured starting QB who is 33 years old and when he comes back if he throws quicker passes that equals less hits and that to me equals less risk of injury. I don't see what is so wrong with wanting to preserve Ben.

1 question. Is it possible to have a QB with 0 sacks for the year?

My answer is no. Unfortunately, Ben is a monster and he has a reputation because he has made a lot of rushers miss and make some amazing plays. Ben is more than just a QB to sack. Ben is THE QB that everyone wants to sack because of his size and mobility. Because he takes a licking and still gets up and wants to go again.

That is not a system, that is Ben's character. He wants to win and he will let others punish him for the good of the team. Thankfully, the O line is respectable and is giving him better protection, but nothing is perfect. If Ben only gets sacked once per game, that would be an amazing stat. But even that 1 time could go wrong, as we witnessed last Sunday. 1 sack and he is injured. In fact, before his injury, Ben actually threw the ball away twice, something I rarely see Ben do.

It is football, shit happens. If I were a defensive lineman/linebacker, I would want a Ben sack on my stat sheet, and I would realize that I would have to do something extra special to get this monster on his ass.

[86WARD]

I agree with all the positive Ben arguments. I'd take him and his style of play almost any day. An argument could be made that Aaron Rodgers is sacked a similar number of times and he hasn't been as injured. So that shows what? To me it shows that the number of hits doesn't matter as much as the type of hit.

However, the Jets, Redskins, Giants and Raiders are the least sacked QBs...and I wouldn't say that any of those guys are necessarily "quick release" guys...

Where Pittsburgh and Green Bay has been sacked 2.4 times a game, the Patriots QBs (with their quick release) have been sacked 2.2 times a game. The Jets with Geno Smith and Ryan Fitzpatrick, lead the league at 1.1 per game.

[tube517]

I agree with all the positive Ben arguments. I'd take him and his style of play almost any day. An argument could be made that Aaron Rodgers is sacked a similar number of times and he hasn't been as injured. So that shows what? To me it shows that the number of hits doesn't matter as much as the type of hit.

However, the Jets, Redskins, Giants and Raiders are the least sacked QBs...and I wouldn't say that any of those guys are necessarily "quick release" guys...

Where Pittsburgh and Green Bay has been sacked 2.4 times a game, the Patriots QBs (with their quick release) have been sacked 2.2 times a game. The Jets with Geno Smith and Ryan Fitzpatrick, lead the league at 1.1 per game.

And those numbers would probably be better if not for Vick becoming a statue-like rookie. He was sacked 10 times. Ben/Landry 11 combined.

[86WARD]

I thought that as I was writing it...lol.

[Count Steeler]

SEASON
WEEK
INJURY
STATUS


2014
CC
calf
Probable


2014
DC
calf
Probable


2014
17
calf
Probable


2014
10
hamstring
Probable


2013
17
collarbone
Probable


2013
16
collarbone
Out


2013
15
collarbone
Out


2013
14
collarbone
Out


2013
13
collarbone
Out


2013
12
collarbone
Out


2013
11
collarbone
Out


2013
10
collarbone
Out




Aaron Rodgers for the last 2 years. Guess he is a moron as well.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Aaron Rodgers for the last 2 years. Guess he is a moron as well.

what a pussy...

[SCSTILLER]

4. Mike Mitchell - like him or hate him but the man can hit and he plays like a lot of the old Steelers players I remember: Ryan Clark, Carnell Lake and Donnie Shell

Glad you brought up Mike Mitchell. He is a classless asshat that makes more boneheaded plays then he does good ones. Wow, he made a great hit that knocked the ball loose, but instead of finishing the play he had to celebrate the hit while a live ball rolled around his feet. Yes, he is responsible for knocking the ball loose and causing the turnover, but he could have been just as responsible for the Steelers not recovering the football. Hit the person, play till the end of the whistle, and go back to the huddle. He is no Ryan Clarke, he is no Donnie Shell, and he sure as all that comes out of my butt no Carnell Lake.

[Mojouw]

I agree with all the positive Ben arguments. I'd take him and his style of play almost any day. An argument could be made that Aaron Rodgers is sacked a similar number of times and he hasn't been as injured. So that shows what? To me it shows that the number of hits doesn't matter as much as the type of hit.

However, the Jets, Redskins, Giants and Raiders are the least sacked QBs...and I wouldn't say that any of those guys are necessarily "quick release" guys...

Where Pittsburgh and Green Bay has been sacked 2.4 times a game, the Patriots QBs (with their quick release) have been sacked 2.2 times a game. The Jets with Geno Smith and Ryan Fitzpatrick, lead the league at 1.1 per game.

Its almost like teams that go empty set alot and multiple WRs take a bigger risk of a sack. And teams that pass out of running and max protect formations expose their dirtball QBs to less hits. Huh. Imagine that? Tradeoffs in the NFL?

In all seriousness - good post!

[ETL]

I just want to say that I am sorry for suggesting that quicker throws may help Ben last longer. It was totally preposterous of me to suggest that. I will always from now on seek the wise word of multiple posters on this thread who said that we should just let Ben play his game because it has no factor in his injuries. The idea of making him throw quick passes to avoid hits is just plain stupid and only someone that does not watch the games would think this.

http://triblive.com/mobile/9452358-96/roethlisberger-steelers-game


Steelers film session: Decisive Ben stays out of harm's way
By Chris Adamski (cadamski@tribweb.com?subject=RE:%20Steelers%20fil m%20session:%20Decisive%20Ben%20stays%20out%20of%2 0harm's%20way%20story%20on%20TribLIVE.com%20Mobile )
Monday, Nov. 16, 2015, 10:48 p.m.
Updated 2 hours ago



Seven days after a mid-foot sprain and six days after it was widely reported he'd miss “a few weeks,” Ben Roethlisberger got a standing ovation from the Heinz Field crowd at the 8-minute, 6-second mark of the first quarter Sunday.
All he'd done at that point was walk onto the field and into the huddle.
He wouldn't be doing much of that — walking (or running) — between the whistles. That was by design.
And it worked by way of a 123.3 rating and a big victory.
Roethlisberger immediately stood in the shotgun, 6 yards deep. His drop-back barely was two steps. And after a quick pump-fake, the ball was gone in roughly 2 seconds flat.
That, short drops and quick throws, would be a common theme the rest of the game for Roethlisberger. The game plan was an apparent effort to spare wear and tear on his feet, and avoid inviting opportunities to be hit or sacked at all costs.
Roethlisberger stayed in the shotgun almost exclusively and went back with two- or three-step drops, set and threw.
There were no waggles, rollouts or slow-developing routes.
And no indecision.
Even on those rare occasions when he took the snap under center, the ball was out quickly; typically, a handoff or a quick slant or bubble screen.
(The lone exception? A play-action deep pass to Antonio Brown. It drew a flag).
When he held onto it longer, he was hit (by Jamie Meder and Craig Robertson in the second and third quarters, respectively). One of the few times he scrambled (it was third down inside the Browns 10, so instinct likely took over), it was the only time he was sacked.
Notably, Roethlisberger's interception came on an atypical occasion he had happy feet in the pocket.
Roethlisberger sometimes made nice plays by stepping up in the pocket and showing mobility. During a mid-third quarter possession, he did so twice in a three-snap span, completing passes to Brown and Heath Miller.
However, other than that, he was getting rid of the ball quickly. Surprisingly, many times that still allowed him to go deep downfield to the sideline, too.
With Roethlisberger dealing with knee and foot injuries this season, the Steelers likely need to be cognizant of the need to avoid undue stress on his legs over the remaining six games.
Roethlisberger was kept clean — and healthy — on Sunday against the Browns.
Figure that will continue to be a top priority the rest of the way.

Snap counts

[MrPgh]

Except for the fact you've been barking up the wrong tree the entire time. His playing style didn't get him hurt.

By the way, I find it interesting you still haven't answered my questions about Bell. Does he need to change his style too?

[StillCurtains]

Brady being smart about throwing it early is not cheating. I'm just saying there is a reason why he's playing game after game year after year and it's not because of a fluke. There is actually something definitive that he's doing to prevent injuries.

Just because your worst enemy is doing something well doesn't negate the value of the act. I know you hate seeing anything that may smell like a complement for a patriot - I understand. But I say it just because I really want Ben to be the QB of the steelers for a long time and at this time - I am not feeling that way about him.


If Ben was Brady releasing the ball quickly would probably be his style too! Brady is slow footed and doesn't possess the ability to extend the play when it breaks down.

Ben releases the ball quickly as well when at times the game plan or play call calls for it, so that's something he can do that Brady does. However with Brady, if the score is 24-20 on the opponent's 20 yard line with 4th and 10 with 30 seconds left in the game, if the pass rush comes up the middle on him the game is over.

With Ben and his ability to feel and elude pressure and break tackles, the play is not over giving them a chance for the win. Not to mention that Ben's statistics show he is the best in the league against the blitz and is deadly accurate while on the run. Who would you pick? I'll take Ben all day!