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TeeTee
10-13-2015, 04:19 PM
Winning makes everything OK, that old saying is true.

But was it really prudent to not take the FG and go for it, knowing if Bell didn't make it in, we lose?

I would like to give Tomlin credit, sensing that if we got to OT, we probably lose, because SD had a more legit offense and we looked like clowns getting out of the clown car for most of the night.

Maybe MT knew if we merely go into OT, we lose any ways, so might as well go for the TD.

I'd like to think that, but I know it's probably not true.

It is more likely that MT made the decision "from the gut" as he often says, even when it is mathematically clear he made the wrong game-time decision.

Even the play itself may have been unwise. Why would you take the ball back 6 yards when you are on the 1" line to begin with? Why not go for a QB sneak there?

It worked. We won, so there won't be too much discussion on this. But had we lost, many of us would be freaking out.

The best news of all is that the D is much improved. Other than that first drive (where they looked horrid) they really tightened things up for most of the game, until the end.

Bring back Ben and what will be a wicked O again, and this team is a legit contender. I believe that.

Count Steeler
10-13-2015, 04:22 PM
I agreed with Tomlin going for it. Win or lose. Got to get rid of the "play not to lose" mentality.

teegre
10-13-2015, 04:37 PM
It worked. We won, so there won't be too much discussion on this. But had we lost, many of us would be freaking out.


It did work... and, fans are still complaining out about the decision (e.g. this thread).

So, Yes, if Bell hadn't scored a TD, most people would have been bitching about giving the ball to Bell. Probably the same people who wanted Bell to get the ball last week. :huh:

polamalubeast
10-13-2015, 04:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5-iJUuPWis

hawaiiansteeler
10-13-2015, 04:40 PM
"we don't live in our fears"...

tube517
10-13-2015, 04:41 PM
Defense was tired. I don't think they could have stopped Rivers again. Not underestimating them but they were gassed. They had to punt 8 times.

Plus, having to rely on Vick to lead them down the field again was just to much to ask.

As far as a QB sneak, Ben would have a better chance to get the TD. Mike Vick is a shrimp compared to Ben.

HollywoodSteel
10-13-2015, 04:55 PM
TeeTee, I like going for it there for the reason you pointed out: I don't like our chances in OT. Plus after 6paying an entire game of football, tacking on that extra playing time increases the chances of injuries.

But I also hated that call. Wildcat? Isn't that to possibly make the D think he might run or pass? Everyone in the stadium knew he was gonna run so it's pointless in that sense. And even if they've practiced it a few times, a RB is more likely to fumble, or even just bobble for a few precious seconds, a direct snap out of the shotgun. It's being cutesy at the worst time to be cutesy. Not the best percentage play when you only need half a yard. It's also incredibly stupid with 5 seconds on the clock with time outs left. You know that play will take more than five seconds if it fails. But a quick QB sneak, or even maybe a quick handoff to Bell (not a draw out of the shotgun) will leave you with a second to call TO if it doesn't work.

And the truth is THE PLAY FAILED. The cutesy play did not create a hole where Bell was supposed to run so he hit a wall of humanity short of the goal line. It's only because Bell is so good, and determined, that his second effort got him to an entirely different spot where he BARELY got the ball over the line. That's just raw individual effort to save a FAILED PLAY CALL.

HollywoodSteel
10-13-2015, 05:05 PM
It did work... and, fans are still complaining out about the decision (e.g. this thread).

So, Yes, if Bell hadn't scored a TD, most people would have been bitching about giving the ball to Bell. Probably the same people who wanted Bell to get the ball last week. :huh:


Well, yeah. This is a forum where people discuss the game and give their opinions, which are sometimes persuasive when they make a good case for what they think. We're all thrilled about the outcome, but it's still fun and interesting to analyze and critique anything and everything. Even the things that turned out wonderful. I don't think I'd come to this board if it was just a cheering section when we win and sadness when we lose. I can feel those things on my own. I come here for analysis and interesting opinions. Win or lose. I happen to love that we went for it there, but I think it's interesting to analyze the exact play call with others who might agree or disagree with me while telling me why the arrived at that conclusion.

And Tegre, your thoughts on this (or about fans' takes on this) are interesting as well so I'm not trying to put down your statement. But from what I've read so far on this thread, nobody's bitching about the decision to go for it there. The OP is just raising the question to see what people think, but he seems to be giving more reasons to go for it than not, while also questioning if Tomlin reached that decision for the right reasons. I happen to think Tomlin took all that into consideration and made the right decision, but with a questionable play call... in my opinion. I'm glad he did it because it worked. It's still fun to analyze and critique it.

TeeTee
10-13-2015, 05:14 PM
TeeTee, I like going for it there for the reason you pointed out: I don't like our chances in OT. Plus after 6paying an entire game of football, tacking on that extra playing time increases the chances of injuries.

But I also hated that call. Wildcat? Isn't that to possibly make the D think he might run or pass? Everyone in the stadium knew he was gonna run so it's pointless in that sense. And even if they've practiced it a few times, a RB is more likely to fumble, or even just bobble for a few precious seconds, a direct snap out of the shotgun. It's being cutesy at the worst time to be cutesy. Not the best percentage play when you only need half a yard. It's also incredibly stupid with 5 seconds on the clock with time outs left. You know that play will take more than five seconds if it fails. But a quick QB sneak, or even maybe a quick handoff to Bell (not a draw out of the shotgun) will leave you with a second to call TO if it doesn't work.

And the truth is THE PLAY FAILED. The cutesy play did not create a hole where Bell was supposed to run so he hit a wall of humanity short of the goal line. It's only because Bell is so good, and determined, that his second effort got him to an entirely different spot where he BARELY got the ball over the line. That's just raw individual effort to save a FAILED PLAY CALL.

Good insights, Hollywood. The D was gassed; I was shocked they still stopped Rivers as much they did down the stretch. They really played pretty inspired if you think about it.

And yea, good call on the actual play; it did fail. Bell saved it. He is extra skilled in so many ways. He has a knack for contorting and then powering to finish runs. That play was a microcosm of what makes Bell great.

MT got lucky. I really don't understand why you would run that play in that situation. Vick is small, but a sneak still might have been the wiser play. But, it's irrelevant because we got the W.

teegre
10-13-2015, 05:21 PM
Well, yeah. This is a forum where people discuss the game and give their opinions, which are sometimes persuasive when they make a good case for what they think. We're all thrilled about the outcome, but it's still fun and interesting to analyze and critique anything and everything. Even the things that turned out wonderful. I don't think I'd come to this board if it was just a cheering section when we win and sadness when we lose. I can feel those things on my own. I come here for analysis and interesting opinions. Win or lose. I happen to love that we went for it there, but I think it's interesting to analyze the exact play call with others who might agree or disagree with me while telling me why the arrived at that conclusion.

And from what I've read so far on this thread, nobody disagrees with the decision to go for it there.

I agree 100%.
But, there are those who will come on here an complain no matter what.



They put the game in Vick's hands.
They should have put the game in Bell's hands.

They put the game in Bell's hands.
They should have put the game in Vick's hands.

...or...

They put the game in Vick's hands.
They should have put the game in Bell's hands.

They put the game in Bell's hands.
They should have run this other play.

They run that other play.
They should have run this third play.

They run that third play.
They were ignoring AB!!!



Make sense?

HollywoodSteel
10-13-2015, 05:33 PM
I agree 100%.
But, there are those who will come on here an complain no matter what.



They put the game in Vick's hands.
They should have put the game in Bell's hands.

They put the game in Bell's hands.
They should have put the game in Vick's hands.

...or...

They put the game in Vick's hands.
They should have put the game in Bell's hands.

They put the game in Bell's hands.
They should have run this other play.

They run that other play.
They should have run this third play.

They run that third play.
They were ignoring AB!!!



Make sense?

Yeah, that does make sense to me. And you're right that some fans will pick at everything just for the sake of picking at it, and always be a contrarian without a good argument to go with it. I just know what I was screaming at the TV and why I was screaming it at the time - "Go for it! I hate our chances in overtime!" followed but "But not with that f*****g play!" followed by some statements about Bell being a God among men - so personally, I don't see the purpose of me being dishonest about my thoughts on it just because it worked. But I agree that some fans probably do that too.

steelreserve
10-13-2015, 05:37 PM
I like the decision to go for it, but I didn't think they had time for anything other than a QB sneak. That's the only thing that gives you a chance to score with no chance of running out the clock without time for a FG attempt.

The play they called was clearly designed to get the ball to their best runner in the shortest amount of time possible. But if even a little thing went wrong, like bouncing off the linemen's asses instead of scoring or going down immediately, there was a real chance of losing the game. And that's exactly what did go wrong.

I don't think a quick handoff would've been any better in that respect; you still run the exact same risk. A QB sneak was the ONLY safe play time-wise. Maybe an immediate throw toward the sideline - although the DBs would've been waiting to jump that in a heartbeat. So really, it comes down to a QB sneak being the only truly safe call, and anything else was gambling. Thank goodness we have a guy who is quite possibly the best running back in the league to bail us out.

lipps83
10-13-2015, 05:44 PM
I like the call to go for it. There was no way OT was going to work in our favor at all. The defense was tired and the offense did nothing all day (besides Bell) outside of the last drive and the lucky long TD pass. Win or lose right there. If they had lost, I still would have been okay with the call to go for it but would be complaining up and down about the play that was actually called.

+1 to Jarvis Jones. He played well last night for the first time EVER.

ALLD
10-13-2015, 05:48 PM
I like the decision to go for it too, but I would not have called the Wildcat. Definitely get the ball to Bell which wasn't done twice on 4th down last week. I guess a direct snap to him leaves little room for error, but I would have spread them out a bit more and brought in Williams too without going into the jumbo package.

Mojouw
10-13-2015, 05:49 PM
Bottom line is that is was a ballsy call. All risk and reward - no middle ground.

I like the coaching decisions (for the most part) all night. Butler, even when they were gassed, never called off the dogs. Tomlin and Haley had the decision to go with the big pass play designed by the injured starting Qb and then to authorize that wildcat at the end even after the Chargers took a timeout to think about it - just flat out gutsy play calling all around.

teegre
10-13-2015, 06:37 PM
Yeah, that does make sense to me. And you're right that some fans will pick at everything just for the sake of picking at it, and always be a contrarian without a good argument to go with it. I just know what I was screaming at the TV and why I was screaming it at the time - "Go for it! I hate our chances in overtime!" followed but "But not with that f*****g play!" followed by some statements about Bell being a God among men - so personally, I don't see the purpose of me being dishonest about my thoughts on it just because it worked. But I agree that some fans probably do that too.

Interesting.

Here's the discussion that I had before that play.

STEELERSFAN1: Sneak.

TEEGRE: Bell... only Bell.

STEELERSFAN2: Run it up the middle. If you don't get it, call a time out & try again.

TEEGRE: Time will run out regardless. Give it to Bell, and let him find the hole... it's what he excels at. Even if he's stopped at first, he WILL find a hole.

HollywoodSteel
10-13-2015, 06:56 PM
Interesting.

Here's the discussion that I had before that play.

STEELERSFAN1: Sneak.

TEEGRE: Bell... only Bell.

STEELERSFAN2: Run it up the middle. If you don't get it, call a time out & try again.

TEEGRE: Time will run out regardless. Give it to Bell, and let him find the hole... it's what he excels at. Even if he's stopped at first, he WILL find a hole.

STEELERSFAN4: Run a wildcat play! Direct snap to Bell in shotgun formation. Maybe the Chargers get fooled into thinking he'll throw it, and since we only have a half yard to go, better to put Bell way back from the line of scrimmage because the Chargers would never expect us to do something like that. And make sure its a play that will definitely eat up the five seconds because the Chargers won't expect that either.

TEEGRE: ?

teegre
10-13-2015, 07:16 PM
STEELERSFAN4: Run a wildcat play! Direct snap to Bell in shotgun formation. Maybe the Chargers get fooled into thinking he'll throw it, and since we only have a half yard to go, better to put Bell way back from the line of scrimmage because the Chargers would never expect us to do something like that. And make sure its a play that will definitely eat up the five seconds because the Chargers won't expect that either.

TEEGRE: ?

TEEGRE: That gives Bell space to choose the best hole... especially since San Diego was in a 2-4-5 defense, instead of a goal line defense, and thus, there WILL be a mismatch that creates a hole... most likely, to the left side.

HollywoodSteel
10-19-2015, 12:50 PM
If we want to go ahead and say that it isn't worth it to take the five seconds into account then I don't mind the shotgun, but it should be to Vick so the defense actually doesn't know if he'll throw, run, or hand off. I'm sure they practiced it once or twice during the week, I just don't like a direct snap to the RB for a number of reasons. But theory aside, in practice I suppose Bell has the surer hands than Vick in any situation, even if he isn't used to a shotgun snap from center. So all in all, I'm ready to concede that it wasn't the worst call ever. :)

GBMelBlount
10-19-2015, 02:06 PM
I like the decision to go for it, but I didn't think they had time for anything other than a QB sneak. That's the only thing that gives you a chance to score with no chance of running out the clock without time for a FG attempt.

The play they called was clearly designed to get the ball to their best runner in the shortest amount of time possible. But if even a little thing went wrong, like bouncing off the linemen's asses instead of scoring or going down immediately, there was a real chance of losing the game. And that's exactly what did go wrong.

I don't think a quick handoff would've been any better in that respect; you still run the exact same risk. A QB sneak was the ONLY safe play time-wise. Maybe an immediate throw toward the sideline - although the DBs would've been waiting to jump that in a heartbeat. So really, it comes down to a QB sneak being the only truly safe call, and anything else was gambling. Thank goodness we have a guy who is quite possibly the best running back in the league to bail us out.

My thoughts exactly.

Godfather
10-19-2015, 06:59 PM
it should be to Vick so the defense actually doesn't know if he'll throw, run, or hand off.

If you're the defense you want Dogkiller to throw. Basically guarantees an incompletion or a pick.

86WARD
10-19-2015, 07:30 PM
If we want to go ahead and say that it isn't worth it to take the five seconds into account then I don't mind the shotgun, but it should be to Vick so the defense actually doesn't know if he'll throw, run, or hand off. I'm sure they practiced it once or twice during the week, I just don't like a direct snap to the RB for a number of reasons. But theory aside, in practice I suppose Bell has the surer hands than Vick in any situation, even if he isn't used to a shotgun snap from center. So all in all, I'm ready to concede that it wasn't the worst call ever. :)

Did you see the Colts fake punt attempt last night? Perhaps the worst play ever...I'm glad that didn't come out of Tomlin's "playbook".