Tomlin On Jarvis Jones: “He’s Been Solid”

[polamalubeast]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/10/tomlin-on-jarvis-jones-hes-been-solid/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[ALLD]

The check is in the mail.

[teegre]

Solid... as opposed to runny & loose.

:wink02:

[Steeldude]

Tomlin probably thinks Jones is the best LB on the team. During the next draft could they exclude Tomlin from making any suggestions or decisions?

[Count Steeler]

I got to start wearing some Cool Shades cause, man, I must be football blind or something. I fully expect the next story to talk about how Jarvis is playing hurt.

I just don't get some of the personnel decisions Tomlin makes.

[TeeTee]

I got to start wearing some Cool Shades cause, man, I must be football blind or something. I fully expect the next story to talk about how Jarvis is playing hurt.

I just don't get some of the personnel decisions Tomlin makes.

Oh, I get them....he makes his personnel decisions "from the gut" just how he says he makes game time decisions...only problem is that his "from the gut" decisions are often stupid and illogical. Could you ever see Noll, Landy or Parcells operating in such a loose manner? Sure, some of their decisions were based on feel, but not as much as Cool Shades. Jones has been solid?

http://www.doynews.com/sites/default/files/field/image/LAUGHMAZZTAZZ.jpg

[Steelman]

Tomlin must have been the one to collect Bell and Marty's leftover weed. :doh:

[TeeTee]

Tomlin says he's been "solid in the run game."

Then he would have a decent # of tackles, I would think.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/15799/jarvis-jones

He is averaging less than 2 tackles a game. That's really solid.

If it weren't for this message board, I wouldn't even know what Cool Shades says, because it's all nonsense and not worth listening to/reading.

http://firstandmonday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/mike-tomlin1.jpg

[polamalubeast]

Oh, I get them....he makes his personnel decisions "from the gut" just how he says he makes game time decisions...only problem is that his "from the gut" decisions are often stupid and illogical. Could you ever see Noll, Landy or Parcells operating in such a loose manner? Sure, some of their decisions were based on feel, but not as much as Cool Shades. Jones has been solid?

http://www.doynews.com/sites/default/files/field/image/LAUGHMAZZTAZZ.jpg


Cowher was a much better "personal guy " that Tomlin, especially for the defense.

[steel striker]

Wow Tomlin must be watching a different Jarvis Jones then we are seeing? I'm losing faith in Tomlin.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Wow Tomlin must be watching a different Jarvis Jones then we are seeing? I'm losing faith in Tomlin.

I guess there must be a new lower standard...:confused:

[TeeTee]

Cowher was a much better "personal guy " that Tomlin, especially for the defense.

He definitely put together better talent on D than Cool Shades has, at this point. And the SB Cool Shades won was almost all Cowher players. I know, :deadhorse:


But compare what Cool Shades has put together compared to............K. Greene, Lloyd, Kirkland, Hampton, Aaron Smith, Woodson, Lake, Chad Brown, Porter, Ray Seals, Buckner.

[polamalubeast]

He definitely put together better talent on D than Cool Shades has, at this point. And the SB Cool Shades won was almost all Cowher players. I know, :deadhorse:


But compare what Cool Shades has put together compared to............K. Greene, Lloyd, Kirkland, Hampton, Aaron Smith, Woodson, Lake, Chad Brown, Porter, Ray Seals, Buckner.


Not forget his trade up in 2003 for Troy Polamalu!

[fansince'76]

If "solid" has now become synonymous with "invisible," I agree...

[fansince'76]

Lloyd, Woodson and Lake were all Noll draftees. And if it were left entirely up to Cowher, Ben would've never been drafted by the Steelers. :coffee:

[Mojouw]

So once again a benign statement by a coach about a player is taken as evidence of criminal wrongdoing. C'mon, what was he going to say:"Wow. Jarvis sucks. We really blew the call on that one. Thankful James Harrison is willing to drag his old ass around the field and Moats is decent. Because....whoo---booooy Jones is terrible."

Until they day they cut the player the team has to stand by them and attempt to salvage some production. I mean you don't need Tomlin destroying guys the way Jordan did to Kwame Brown. I figure the coaches still will publicly claim that Shamarko, Cortez, Dri, Landry, Cam, Mike Adams, etc have positive attributes and the potential to make a contribution.

Privately, who knows. But playing time is the best measure of what a team really thinks of a guy. Bottom line - all those players listed above and Jarvis are hardly getting any. If James Harrison wasn't 100 years old, Jones would be nailed to the bench between Shamarko and Cortez.

If Chillio gets a run of play in the next week or so, then you can bet that what the team really thinks and what they publicly say on Jones are basically the opposite.

[ALLD]

I think Tomlin heard, how good is Deacon Jones.

[TeeTee]

So once again a benign statement by a coach about a player is taken as evidence of criminal wrongdoing. C'mon, what was he going to say:"Wow. Jarvis sucks. We really blew the call on that one. Thankful James Harrison is willing to drag his old ass around the field and Moats is decent. Because....whoo---booooy Jones is terrible."



No, he doesn't have to come out and flatly say he sucks, but how about not just lying through his teeth? Would that be too much too ask? How about, instead of saying he is offering "solid play" say something more along the lines of, "He isn't providing us with enough production that we need from that position up to now. Almost everyone has room for improvement on our defense and Jones is no exception."

I just can't respect a man who claims JJ has "been solid." He is either a moron or a liar, and I am not a fan of either.

[polamalubeast]

Former first-round pick Jarvis Jones has yet to have a sack in four games, but Steelers coach Mike Tomlin isn't concerned. Tomlin said that game plans against the 49ers and Rams limited Jones' rush opportunities.

“We would bring the left outside linebackers probably three to four times more often than the right outside linebackers. Such is life,” Tomlin said. “We are going to do things that give us a chance to win.”

According to Pro Football Focus, Jones has rushed the passer more than any of his fellow outside linebackers. Jones has rushed 47 percent of the time, followed by Arthur Moats (46 percent) Bud Dupree (42 percent) and James Harrison (41 percent).

Tomlin said he's pleased with how Jones is playing. “I think he's been solid,” Tomlin said.


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/9219126-74/tomlin-jones-steelers#ixzz3npKgRx2m
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

[Edman]

Lloyd, Woodson and Lake were all Noll draftees. And if it were left entirely up to Cowher, Ben would've never been drafted by the Steelers. :coffee:

The Kordell Era, three straight years of no playoffs, and posting the last losing season (2003) in Steelers History proves that Cowher was no genius either.

Revisionist History is funny, and I pretty sure the next guy who comes along to coach the Steelers we'll all reminisce about the "Good Old Days" with Mike Tomlin.

[86WARD]

This is the type of garbage that makes Tomlin a questionable coach. He doesn't have to say he sucks...but "solid"? Jones has clearly been far, far, far from "solid." He could easily say something to the effect that "Jones has been improving and we like the direction he's going however we feel like he hasn't reached his potential yet but is on his way and we're excited to see him get there. The standard is the standard." Not that he's been solid...lol. That's just freaking stupid. Jones was pretty much nailed to the bench at the end of the Ravens game...that's not what you do to a guy who's "solid."

[teegre]

So once again a benign statement by a coach about a player is taken as evidence of criminal wrongdoing. C'mon, what was he going to say:"Wow. Jarvis sucks. We really blew the call on that one. Thankful James Harrison is willing to drag his old ass around the field and Moats is decent. Because....whoo---booooy Jones is terrible."

Until they day they cut the player the team has to stand by them and attempt to salvage some production. I mean you don't need Tomlin destroying guys the way Jordan did to Kwame Brown. I figure the coaches still will publicly claim that Shamarko, Cortez, Dri, Landry, Cam, Mike Adams, etc have positive attributes and the potential to make a contribution.

Privately, who knows. But playing time is the best measure of what a team really thinks of a guy. Bottom line - all those players listed above and Jarvis are hardly getting any. If James Harrison wasn't 100 years old, Jones would be nailed to the bench between Shamarko and Cortez.

If Chillio gets a run of play in the next week or so, then you can bet that what the team really thinks and what they publicly say on Jones are basically the opposite.

Exactly. We're arguing over semantics.

- - - Updated - - -


I just can't respect a man who claims JJ has "been solid." He is either a moron or a liar, and I am not a fan of either.

Your hero, Bill Belichick, has praised a player at a presser, and then cut him right afterwards.

So...

[teegre]

Lloyd, Woodson and Lake were all Noll draftees. And if it were left entirely up to Cowher, Ben would've never been drafted by the Steelers. :coffee:

The trajectory for Cowher's and Tomlin's careers are eerily similar.

Cowher inherited two Hall of Famers (Woodson & Dawson), as well as quite a few other extremely good players: Carnell Lake, Greg Lloyd, Jerold Williams, Geraold Williams, Hardy Nickerson, Carlton Haselrig, John Jackson, Thomas Everett, Meril Hoge, Barry Foster, Eric Green...

When those players moved on (free agency, retirement), there was a dip in production as Cowher rebuilt the team (1998-2000).

But, you know... distance makes the grass is greener.

[Shoes]

Tackling is "solid" too, just like last year and the year before that. I mean what do you expect from professional football players?

[teegre]

Tackling is "solid" too, just like last year and the year before that. I mean what do you expect from professional football players?

I see poor tackling a lot more since 2010... as a result of trying to keep concussions down. Guys are are timid when hitting. They hesitate before they tackle.

That does NOT excuse not wrapping up, but it is a small factor.

[Shoes]

Not wrapping up is the problem on all the film I've seen.

[Mojouw]

I see poor tackling a lot more since 2010... as a result of trying to keep concussions down. Guys are are timid when hitting. They hesitate before they tackle.

That does NOT excuse not wrapping up, but it is a small factor.

New CBA cuts practice times down as well. The first thing to go by all accounts from coaches to former players is work on the fundamentals, as teams use every available minute to install the game plan.

That being said, the Steelers tackling is still well below the line.

[teegre]

New CBA cuts practice times down as well. The first thing to go by all accounts from coaches to former players is work on the fundamentals, as teams use every available minute to install the game plan.

That being said, the Steelers tackling is still well below the line.

Very true.

Indeed.

[86WARD]

New CBA cuts practice times down as well. The first thing to go by all accounts from coaches to former players is work on the fundamentals, as teams use every available minute to install the game plan.

That being said, the Steelers tackling is still well below the "standard".

Put that in Tomlin-speak for you.

[Shoes]

I don't buy concussions or the CBA cutting into practice time as any factor in the piss poor example of tackling we see weekly. Most of these guys have been playing football since they were six years old. Tackling is basic part of the game, its impossible to forget when one has been doing it for so long. Laziness and not being held accountable is more of the cause imo. A professional football player forgetting how to tackle is like Tommy Emmanuel forgetting where the C cord is on his guitar.

I just ran across this article..

Steelers Tackling Deficiencies Exceed League-Wide Trends.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/10/steelers-tackling-deficiencies-exceed-league-wide-trends/

[NCSteeler]

So once again a benign statement by a coach about a player is taken as evidence of criminal wrongdoing. C'mon, what was he going to say:"Wow. Jarvis sucks. We really blew the call on that one. Thankful James Harrison is willing to drag his old ass around the field and Moats is decent. Because....whoo---booooy Jones is terrible."

Until they day they cut the player the team has to stand by them and attempt to salvage some production. I mean you don't need Tomlin destroying guys the way Jordan did to Kwame Brown. I figure the coaches still will publicly claim that Shamarko, Cortez, Dri, Landry, Cam, Mike Adams, etc have positive attributes and the potential to make a contribution.

Privately, who knows. But playing time is the best measure of what a team really thinks of a guy. Bottom line - all those players listed above and Jarvis are hardly getting any. If James Harrison wasn't 100 years old, Jones would be nailed to the bench between Shamarko and Cortez.

If Chillio gets a run of play in the next week or so, then you can bet that what the team really thinks and what they publicly say on Jones are basically the opposite.

That's not true he publicly said Shark has problems above the shoulders, he could have said similar veiled statement about Jarvis too, all this means is he doesn't see it. Just like Cowher kept putting Kordell in and saying things ere good.

[86WARD]

Cowher was in love with Kordell's athleticism, just like we all were, the difference was a lot of us could see he lacked everyday QB skills...Cowher never got that. I still say if Slash remained Slash, he would've been an all-time Steelers great.

[Count Steeler]

Cowher was in love with Kordell's athleticism, just like we all were, the difference was a lot of us could see he lacked everyday QB skills...Cowher never got that. I still say if Slash remained Slash, he would've been an all-time Steelers great.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

I agree. Slash was Slash, not a QB.

[tube517]

Cowher was in love with Kordell's athleticism, just like we all were, the difference was a lot of us could see he lacked everyday QB skills...Cowher never got that. I still say if Slash remained Slash, he would've been an all-time Steelers great.

http://www.wtae.com/image/view/-/7958702/medRes/3/-/maxh/220/maxw/220/-/10i78gy/-/cowher-stewart---10654402.jpg

[86WARD]

I always forget that there was a time where the name plates were only in black lettering...that looks terrible compared to the yellow/black. That was not "Jarvis Jones" solid.

[katmandu]

Tackling is "solid" too, just like last year and the year before that. I mean what do you expect from professional football players?
Rollin could be using the word solid in literal sense. Meaning his solid like a rock.....just like Jarvis plays..... Like rock...has no moves. Basically just rolls around.... Just like a solid rock.

Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk

[katmandu]

Rollin could be using the word solid in literal sense. Meaning his solid like a rock.....just like Jarvis plays..... Like rock...has no moves. Basically just rolls around.... Just like a solid rock.

Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk
Tomlin...not Rollin....I hate this word chooser,

Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk

[cali_fan]

I was tweeting Dale Lolley and Alex Kozora about JJ and they both said the same thing.
Harrison is in during passing plays and JJ is in during run plays both writers have said Jones has been solid for what he's asked to do.

And no they don't have to "lie" like some of you believe Tomlin is doing.

[86WARD]

Rollin could be using the word solid in literal sense. Meaning his solid like a rock.....just like Jarvis plays..... Like rock...has no moves. Basically just rolls around.... Just like a solid rock.

Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk

Good point...at first I thought you were possibly going to say he was solid like because he worked out...but we know that's a lie. But this is a good perspective on Tomlin's comments.

[86WARD]

I was tweeting Dale Lolley and Alex Kozora about JJ and they both said the same thing.
Harrison is in during passing plays and JJ is in during run plays both writers have said Jones has been solid for what he's asked to do.

And no they don't have to "lie" like some of you believe Tomlin is doing.

Solid how? Like just taking filling a helmet on game day?

[Steelman]

I was tweeting Dale Lolley and Alex Kozora about JJ and they both said the same thing.
Harrison is in during passing plays and JJ is in during run plays both writers have said Jones has been solid for what he's asked to do.

And no they don't have to "lie" like some of you believe Tomlin is doing.

So basically we have Steve McLendon Lite moved to outside linebacker on early downs. Then we bring in an 80 year old man to rush the passer on passing downs. Sounds like a solid plan.

[katmandu]

Good point...at first I thought you were possibly going to say he was solid like because he worked out...but we know that's a lie. But this is a good perspective on Tomlin's comments.
Or......Solid like a speed bump! LMAO !!

Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk

[SteelerFanInStl]

I was tweeting Dale Lolley and Alex Kozora about JJ and they both said the same thing.
Harrison is in during passing plays and JJ is in during run plays both writers have said Jones has been solid for what he's asked to do.

And no they don't have to "lie" like some of you believe Tomlin is doing.
That would excuse him for not getting sacks but he's not getting tackles either. You're not playing `solid` against the run if you're not getting any tackles.

[TeeTee]

I was tweeting Dale Lolley and Alex Kozora about JJ and they both said the same thing.
Harrison is in during passing plays and JJ is in during run plays both writers have said Jones has been solid for what he's asked to do.

And no they don't have to "lie" like some of you believe Tomlin is doing.

So, in your world, playing on "rushing downs" and only posting less than 2 tackles a game is solid? At OLB in a 3-4? You consider that solid?

OK, there. JJ's play is about as solid as this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSKQ3ZNQ_O8

[teegre]

Is JJ worthy of his #15 overall selection? No

Is JJ a starter? Eh... not really

Is JJ a viable backup? Yes

SUMMATION:
He's not getting cut, he's starting so that it keeps James Harrison fresh, and a true starter is needed for next season (hopefully, that is Chickillo).

IMO: That is the definition of "solid." He's certainly not good, nor great, nor a Pro Bowler. He's merely solid.

[tube517]

Is JJ worthy of his #15 overall selection? No

Is JJ a starter? Eh... not really

Is JJ a viable backup? Yes

SUMMATION:
He's not getting cut, he's starting so that it keeps James Harrison fresh, and a true starter is needed for next season (hopefully, that is Chickillo).

IMO: That is the definition of "solid." He's certainly not good, nor great, nor a Pro Bowler. He's merely solid.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQMx-_Y0YfnVdyklWAJs2NrlVAOPbPoTHwVqaJv_OxqQyN3Pen01g

[TeeTee]

Is JJ worthy of his #15 overall selection? No

Is JJ a starter? Eh... not really

Is JJ a viable backup? Yes

SUMMATION:
He's not getting cut, he's starting so that it keeps James Harrison fresh, and a true starter is needed for next season (hopefully, that is Chickillo).

IMO: That is the definition of "solid." He's certainly not good, nor great, nor a Pro Bowler. He's merely solid.

I still think in order to establish the description of "solid" it should mean that you at least make tackles, if not some splash plays. I cannot endorse an OLB as "solid" when they average less than 2 tackles a game. That simply isn't solid.

He basically doesn't do anything. He is just out there, titty fighting, not making any difference whatsoever. I can almost live with no sacks (even though an OLB in a 3-4 MUST deliver some or your D is shit) only because #92 is better on those downs, but to just do virtually nothing, all game, I am sorry, that is not "solid" in my book.

[teegre]

I still think in order to establish the description of "solid" it should mean that you at least make tackles, if not some splash plays. I cannot endorse an OLB as "solid" when they average less than 2 tackles a game. That simply isn't solid.

He basically doesn't do anything. He is just out there, titty fighting, not making any difference whatsoever. I can almost live with no sacks (even though an OLB in a 3-4 MUST deliver some or your D is shit) only because #92 is better on those downs, but to just do virtually nothing, all game, I am sorry, that is not "solid" in my book.

I hear you... and I think that we are arguing over semantics and/or we have different expectations.

On the topic of expectations, since JJ was a first rounder, I understand why only being "solid" would be frustrating. I prefer to think of that draft as getting four players that helped the team:
R1: Le'Veon Bell
R2: Markus Wheaton
R3: Vince Williams
R4: JJ

Trust me, I get it: we could have had a plethora of other players at #15 (Alec Ogletree), but we also could have had a complete & utter dud (such as Dee Milliner or Dion Jordan).

[hawaiiansteeler]

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/48/4869845d7641a3cad1ad246bd41b0b70e7566f8daa0e51980c ffa0feef399bb4.jpg

[TeeTee]

I hear you... and I think that we are arguing over semantics and/or we have different expectations.

On the topic of expectations, since JJ was a first rounder, I understand why only being "solid" would be frustrating. I prefer to think of that draft as getting four players that helped the team:
R1: Le'Veon Bell
R2: Markus Wheaton
R3: Vince Williams
R4: JJ

Trust me, I get it: we could have had a plethora of other players at #15 (Alec Ogletree), but we also could have had a complete & utter dud (such as Dee Milliner or Dion Jordan).

True. But if we change the discussion to the over all draft not being bad, that is a totally different discussion,. Let's call it semantics, but I just, at this point, would not call JJ's production "solid."

[katmandu]

That would excuse him for not getting sacks but he's not getting tackles either. You're not playing `solid` against the run if you're not getting any tackles.
Perhaps JJ is so intimidating that ball carriers are too afraid to run his way!

Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk

[teegre]

True. But if we change the discussion to the over all draft not being bad, that is a totally different discussion,. Let's call it semantics, but I just, at this point, would not call JJ's production "solid."

I think I figured out the difference...

I see the word "solid" as not being a positive adjective; it's a step away from sucking. If someone said that I was merely "solid" at my job, I'd be pissed.

Troy Polamalu was phenomenal.
James Farrior was outstanding.
Lawrence Timmons is great.
Larry Foote was good.
Vince Williams is pretty good.
Jarvis Jones is solid.
Cam Thomas sucks.
Sean Mahan was blood-infused diarrhea.

[fansince'76]

Perhaps JJ is so intimidating that ball carriers are too afraid to run his way
He's steering all the RBs coming his way into one of his teammates!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyp9fh-u4w8

:chuckle:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Perhaps JJ is so intimidating that ball carriers are too afraid to run his way!



opposing OCs game plan to run away away from JJ.

obviously...

[Mojouw]

I think I figured out the difference...

I see the word "solid" as not being a positive adjective; it's a step away from sucking. If someone said that I was merely "solid" at my job, I'd be pissed.

Troy Polamalu was phenomenal.
James Farrior was outstanding.
Lawrence Timmons is great.
Larry Foote was good.
Vince Williams is pretty good.
Jarvis Jones is solid.
Cam Thomas sucks.
Sean Mahan was blood-infused diarrhea.

I think I can get on board with all of that. The thing that has always bothered me about Jarvis is that I fail to see what he does really well or what "Special" attribute he has. Leaving aside the stats for a second - let me explain my thinking. Recent Steelers draft successes, especially under Tomlin/Colbert, have been predicated on drafting players with a "special/elite" skill or attribute and then honing them in to football players.

Shazier - unparalleled speed and reaction time at the LB level
Tuitt - look how he moves for a man his size
McCullers - simply his size alone
AB and Sanders - route running, vision, and short area quickness
Wallace and Bryant - elite speed
Coates - Size speed ratio
Pouncey and Decastro - Mobility
Gilbert and Adams - sheer size
Jesse James - size at the TE position
Spence - quickness (at least pre-injury)
Bell - vision and pass catching
Archer - flat out speed
Dupree - goodness that first step
Holliman - quickness to the ball
Golson - quickness to the ball

I realize that this is kind of cherry picking and not all these players are successful. But the point is all of them, despite flaws, possessed at least one physical trait that could be projected to on-field production that was damn near off the charts. I kind of feel that Tomlin and Colbert basically swing from their heels, especially late in the draft. They draft on the potential of developing high-upside "toolsy" players.

What they hell were Jarvis Jones' tools? That is my problem with the pick and the player. Jones can likely start and be mediocre for a decent 2 contract NFL career, but he appears to lack any projectable traits that could develop and tip the scales to "really good" or "great".

[86WARD]

I'm sorry, but "flat out speed" does not translate to the NFL. I'd take Hines Ward every day, who was slower than molasses in the middle of a Siberian winter over Dri Archer and his "flat out speed." Just based on Wards college game tapes compared to The same from Archer. You could probably name more draft busts that had "flat out speed" than any other group of players with a specific "draft trait."

[86WARD]

Jones was supposed to be a great edge rusher who had super speed off the edge with great pursuit, instincts, always in the backfield...blah, blah, blah. The one trait he has that translated from college to the pros is he's not a hard worker. He didn't work hard in college and he doesn't in the NFL.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I'm sorry, but "flat out speed" does not translate to the NFL. I'd take Hines Ward every day, who was slower than molasses in the middle of a Siberian winter over Dri Archer and his "flat out speed." Just based on Wards college game tapes compared to The same from Archer. You could probably name more draft busts that had "flat out speed" than any other group of players with a specific "draft trait."

the Oakland Raiders are living proof of that...

[Steeldude]

Jones was supposed to be a great edge rusher who had super speed off the edge with great pursuit, instincts, always in the backfield when he isn't blocked. The one trait he has that translated from college to the pros is he's not a hard worker. He didn't work hard in college and he doesn't in the NFL.

Fixed it for you

[Steelman]

Jones was supposed to be a great edge rusher who had super speed off the edge with great pursuit, instincts, always in the backfield...blah, blah, blah. The one trait he has that translated from college to the pros is he's not a hard worker. He didn't work hard in college and he doesn't in the NFL.

Was this really a thing people were saying? Jones ran like a 4.8 or 4.9 at his pro day...not fast at all. I think that's his problem. He's not athletic enough to glide on athleticism, and he seemingly doesn't have that drive to work hard to compensate for it.

[tube517]

Sean Mahan was blood-infused diarrhea.


:horror: :lol:

[86WARD]

Was this really a thing people were saying? Jones ran like a 4.8 or 4.9 at his pro day...not fast at all. I think that's his problem. He's not athletic enough to glide on athleticism, and he seemingly doesn't have that drive to work hard to compensate for it.

Maybe not super speed...maybe that was me exaggerating, but I did read somewhere they definitely said "fast".

- - - Updated - - -

Here is one from Walterfootball.com...lol.

http://i.imgur.com/z4nzr1D.png

[teegre]

I think I can get on board with all of that. The thing that has always bothered me about Jarvis is that I fail to see what he does really well or what "Special" attribute he has. Leaving aside the stats for a second - let me explain my thinking. Recent Steelers draft successes, especially under Tomlin/Colbert, have been predicated on drafting players with a "special/elite" skill or attribute and then honing them in to football players.

Shazier - unparalleled speed and reaction time at the LB level
Tuitt - look how he moves for a man his size
McCullers - simply his size alone
AB and Sanders - route running, vision, and short area quickness
Wallace and Bryant - elite speed
Coates - Size speed ratio
Pouncey and Decastro - Mobility
Gilbert and Adams - sheer size
Jesse James - size at the TE position
Spence - quickness (at least pre-injury)
Bell - vision and pass catching
Archer - flat out speed
Dupree - goodness that first step
Holliman - quickness to the ball
Golson - quickness to the ball

I realize that this is kind of cherry picking and not all these players are successful. But the point is all of them, despite flaws, possessed at least one physical trait that could be projected to on-field production that was damn near off the charts. I kind of feel that Tomlin and Colbert basically swing from their heels, especially late in the draft. They draft on the potential of developing high-upside "toolsy" players.

What they hell were Jarvis Jones' tools? That is my problem with the pick and the player. Jones can likely start and be mediocre for a decent 2 contract NFL career, but he appears to lack any projectable traits that could develop and tip the scales to "really good" or "great".

Great point. Even missing on Mike Adams can be justified, because he was a size-speed anomaly who showed moments of complete domination, and thus, the coaching staff thought that they could get production from on every down.

The Jones pick was odd.
OLB: yes
Jones: odd

But, what do I know... I wanted Matt Elam (he has sucked in Baltimore). :lol: :doh:

[Mojouw]

I'm sorry, but "flat out speed" does not translate to the NFL. I'd take Hines Ward every day, who was slower than molasses in the middle of a Siberian winter over Dri Archer and his "flat out speed." Just based on Wards college game tapes compared to The same from Archer. You could probably name more draft busts that had "flat out speed" than any other group of players with a specific "draft trait."

oh. I totally agree. I was not attempting to defend any of those players listed or where they were drafted. I was only trying to make the point that if you look at it from a certain perspective, you can see a theme running through Tomlin/Colbert's drafts. It is players with at least one measurable that is ridiculous. Does that measurable always or ever translate to NFL success? That is another discussion.

The relevant point here, is what the hell does Jarvis do well?

- - - Updated - - -

As to Jones - this is the most accurate scouting report I have ever seen on him:



Jarvis Jones OLB/RLB Georgia

TALENT BOARD ROUND 3




STRENGTHS
Jarvis Jones has solid athletic talent. He shows a good burst and explosion off the line of scrimmage and the cover skills to be used in man-to-man coverage against most tight ends and some slot receivers. He has long arms that allow him to play bigger than his size when rushing the passer and long strides off the line that make it hard for offensive tackles to stay on balance and block him before he can run around them. He has solid football instincts in identifying screens to his side of the field. He is stout against sweeps to his side and able to string out plays even when he is double teamed. Jarvis has the size and athletic ability to play more than one linebacker position in any style of defense but his impact position is as a rush linebacker in a 3-4 defense as his college team used him. Jarvis has convinced most people that he is an impact player for his college team and for the next level. His stats are very impressive and although they don't seem to match his play on the field, most everyone you talk to feels that Jarvis is one of the top picks in this draft. That is, everyone but the BS Detector.

CONCERNS
I see a player on the field who has talent, but won't impact because he doesn't play with fire in the belly. This kid never makes a sack when he is blocked. Most, if not all, of his sacks come from not being blocked at all. Many of his sacks come against right tackles one-on-one that he beats by running around them and not engaging. He is stout against the run, but never fights through a double team. Does he have the explosion to come off the line and make a sack? Yes, unless he gets blocked. Does he have the speed to run plays down from behind? Yes, when he feels like it. Can he cover tight ends one-on-one and have the recovery speed when he gets beat? Yes, but most of the time he doesn't bother. Jarvis does what he is supposed to do and does it very well. The problem is, he has the ability to do more than he is supposed to do and doesn't. That is, unless he is unblocked. I don't see the effort on every play at the college level to suggest he will be an impact player at the NFL level.

BOTTOM LINE
I'm a profiler -- not a scout, not a GM. I don't profile players on what others say about those players or care what an agent sends to me about his client. My profiles have no agenda except to communicate to you, to the best of my ability, what I see on film. If you want to argue that Jarvis has the athletic talent to impact at the next level, I would have to agree with you. If you want to argue that he could be an excellent pass rusher, I would agree with that also. But if you want to argue with me that Jarvis will be an impact player because of his talent, that's where we are going to disagree because it takes more than talent to play in the NFL. Unless someone takes a cattle prod to this kid while he is playing, I doubt he plays consistently at the next level. I'm not like others who evaluate talent for the draft. I look at the draft through the eyes of an owner and I don't think that cattle prod I talked about will be in the form of drafting Jarvis in the top ten and handing him $20 million dollars. In fact, I think it will have the opposite affect. The best thing that could happen to Jarvis is for him not to be drafted until the 2nd or 3rd round and then he just might play with a chip on his shoulder until his first contract is up. I don't trust the kid to show up for every year of his contract and, by that I mean effort on every play and not stats. I'm not sure how Jarvis made as many sacks and tackles that that are credited to him, but I can tell you this: he is easy to block one-on-one by a running back who will not sniff the NFL. Most right tackles with the talent for the NFL had a very easy time blocking him also. He was moved around his college defense, which is a credit to his coaches. He also played on a defense that has more than one potential NFL player which made it easy for Jarvis to impact. As I said, his talent does not match up with what he does on the field and his stats do not match up with the way he has played on the field THIS YEAR. Maybe last year he was outstanding. Maybe he did everything on the field that everyone is talking about. All I can tell is that this year, he was inconsistent and disappointing for the overall talent he possesses. This year there was no fire in the belly to be the best player on the field for his college team. That, to me, is not a top ten talent. In fact, for me, if your effort is excellent one year and not the next, that sends up a big red flag no matter how talented you may be.

Drew "The B.S. Detector" Boylhart
Jan/2013

[SteelerFanInStl]

That seems to be spot on. I like how he used the word "solid" twice in the Strengths section. :D

[Steeldude]

Jones was good in college when he wasn't blocked.

In the NFL it has been pretty much remained the same.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Jarvis Jones had five tackles, a sack, and a forced fumble that Shamarko Thomas recovered.

very "solid" :thumbsup:

[Count Steeler]

I find he is very light on his feet, very easily taken off his feet and moved.

He has to build lower body strength, learn some leverage techniques. Just seems rag dollish.

[Steelermania]

Jarvis Jones had five tackles, a sack, and a forced fumble that Shamarko Thomas recovered.

very "solid" :thumbsup:

Probably his best game as a Steeler.

[Count Steeler]

Probably his best game as a Steeler.

Not bad, considering he was playing against a shlub 3rd string LT. Against a front line LT, he disappears again.

[86WARD]

Not bad, considering he was playing against a shlub 3rd string LT. Against a front line LT, he disappears again.

You're just mad that Tomlin knows Jones is solid.

[tube517]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/10/steelers-dc-keith-butler-not-ready-to-say-lb-jarvis-jones-has-turned-the-corner/

Solid = Not turning the corner