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StillCurtains
10-02-2015, 01:54 AM
This was a tough loss for the Steelers today. Defense played lights out and our offense, though not as explosive did not turn it over. Those things right there should have gotten us the win.

However, the finger pointing at Vick for this loss is absolutely absurd. I know there are a goid number of people that didn't like this signing, but you can't possibly try to convince yourselves or anyone else that he lost this game. Just come straight out and say you don't like him!

Training Camp is setup for players who are competing to make the team, and learn the offensive, defensive and special teams playbook. Vick came in during the tail end, not having enough of an opportunity to grasp the offense.

Vick is also our BACKUP quarterback. Your BACKUP is just that for a reason. He's not supposed to be as good as Ben our STARTER! Is Garropolo as good as Brady? Go ahead and lie and say he is. Also how much time did Vick have to prepare for our arch rival? 3 DAYS!!!

Under those circumstances I thought he did better than expected. If anyone would have told me that he would not have turned the ball over for this game, I would have taken it, and so would everyone else. Was he spectacular? No... Do I wish he were better? Absolutely, but the fact is that he DIDN'T lose it for us and he did ENOUGH to win.

If he makes game changing fumbles and picks that lose the game for us next week and thereafter then fine, go ahead and attack him but to try to place blame on him tonight is absolutely and ridiculously unfair and untrue.

If anyone feels otherwise, you're simply not being true to yourselves. The TRUE GOAT tonight was Scobee. Make to fieldgoals.... Game Over, Steelers win. If you still want to blame Vick, then just start an HONEST thread that says....

I JUST SIMPLY HATE VICK... WIN OR LOSE!!!

steelreserve
10-02-2015, 01:58 AM
Vick was not the reason we lost. It was the idiot kicker. That dude needs to be manning a radar tower in Alaska by the end of the week. I don't care if we're not the military. If he's on the roster, we can tell him what to do, so I'd keep him on the roster, send him to Alaska, cut Archer, and get a real kicker. Screw that guy.

Butch
10-02-2015, 04:36 AM
Excellent post and was exactly what I was going to say.

This loss was completely on the Kicker.

zulater
10-02-2015, 05:27 AM
This was a tough loss for the Steelers today. Defense played lights out and our offense, though not as explosive did not turn it over. Those things right there should have gotten us the win.

However, the finger pointing at Vick for this loss is absolutely absurd. I know there are a goid number of people that didn't like this signing, but you can't possibly try to convince yourselves or anyone else that he lost this game. Just come straight out and say you don't like him!

Training Camp is setup for players who are competing to make the team, and learn the offensive, defensive and special teams playbook. Vick came in during the tail end, not having enough of an opportunity to grasp the offense.

Vick is also our BACKUP quarterback. Your BACKUP is just that for a reason. He's not supposed to be as good as Ben our STARTER! Is Garropolo as good as Brady? Go ahead and lie and say he is. Also how much time did Vick have to prepare for our arch rival? 3 DAYS!!!

Under those circumstances I thought he did better than expected. If anyone would have told me that he would not have turned the ball over for this game, I would have taken it, and so would everyone else. Was he spectacular? No... Do I wish he were better? Absolutely, but the fact is that he DIDN'T lose it for us and he did ENOUGH to win.

If he makes game changing fumbles and picks that lose the game for us next week and thereafter then fine, go ahead and attack him but to try to place blame on him tonight is absolutely and ridiculously unfair and untrue.

If anyone feels otherwise, you're simply not being true to yourselves. The TRUE GOAT tonight was Scobee. Make to fieldgoals.... Game Over, Steelers win. If you still want to blame Vick, then just start an HONEST thread that says....

I JUST SIMPLY HATE VICK... WIN OR LOSE!!!

Did Vick lose the game last night? No. But to anyone with a brain he pretty much revealed he's really a below average qb. He's a below average back up. Trust me the turnovers are coming. But even in a clean game he revealed who he is. 2-15 on third and 4th down conversion attempts. Less than 5 yards per attempted pass.

And no I don;t hate Vick. He did his time, he has a right to pursue a living. I just think he's a lousy qb. I think there were probably several somewhat less lousy qb's on the scrap heap that probably would have been a better fit for this team. To me watching this high flying potent offense in the hands of Vick is akin to putting a housewife behind the wheel of a souped up dragster at Bonneville.

86WARD
10-02-2015, 06:05 AM
Vick wasn't the worst QB on the field last night.

fansince'76
10-02-2015, 06:24 AM
Thank you, Mark Barron...

zulater
10-02-2015, 09:30 AM
Vick wasn't the worst QB on the field last night.

Flacco didn't have the weapons at his disposal that Vick did. And when the game was on the line he overcame his prior poor play and made enough plays to score the games final 17 points. So by what definition did Vick outplay him? Yeah I know Vick didn't turn the ball over. But with the scaled back game plan we employed it was more a case of Haley playing hide the qb than Vick making solid on field decisions.

Rotorhead
10-02-2015, 09:58 AM
4 Plays lost the game last night, and none were Vicks fault.

The obvious 2 were Scobee, there will be enough discussion about him I am sure, no need to talk about it here

The next bad play was Brown's TD drop. In order for us to win any games with ANY backup QB, our star players needed to step up and make the plays they can, plain and simple. That ball hits Brown in the hands and he didn't make the catch. If you are the top offensive performer on the team, best WR in the game, you HAVE to make those plays when your star QB is out. Those are the plays that win these games.

The last one is the 4th and 2 QB run. I didnt like the call, but it wasnt the worst call, after all Vick had out run the def a couple times already for more than 2 but those were to the long side not the short side. Simply if they would have run the other direction we get the first and game is over. To the edge on the short side of the field is moronic at best. Vick never had a chance, nobody would have as there was not enough room. Running to the long side gives him several chances to cut up the field or simply out run the def to the boundry line for a 1st. For his part though, he did duck his head and dove into the tackles trying to get the first.

I would have put Williams and Bell in and run it up the middle with Williams, but that just makes too much sense.

Vick did exactly what we needed him to do. He took care of the ball (no turnovers). He was efficient in passing. Hell, he even had a nice TD pass that was dropped. The problem is 2 fold for this game. The people that needed to step it up didnt. You can't put the game on the shoulders of our backup and expect to win, that is what your stars are for. Would I like him to be better, of course, but he is a backup for a reason. He is there to NOT lose games he has to play, and he didnt.

86WARD
10-02-2015, 11:26 AM
Flacco didn't have the weapons at his disposal that Vick did. And when the game was on the line he overcame his prior poor play and made enough plays to score the games final 17 points. So by what definition did Vick outplay him? Yeah I know Vick didn't turn the ball over. But with the scaled back game plan we employed it was more a case of Haley playing hide the qb than Vick making solid on field decisions.

You couldn't be more wrong. He's a back up QB. He had one day to run the plays...lol. He didn't turn the ball over, his numbers were decent for a BACK UP QB. He's played with those "weapons" in game situations for how long? When was the last time he started? And the coaches played hide the QB? The COACHES. Not Vick. We get the hate for Vick. It's getting a little old now. But if you want to blame Vick for playing a decent game when there's a lot more out there to blame. Have at it. :coffee:

BTW - Where's the hate for AB? That dropped pass was probably Vick's fault right? :coffee:

zulater
10-02-2015, 11:37 AM
You couldn't be more wrong. He's a back up QB. He had one day to run the plays...lol. He didn't turn the ball over, his numbers were decent for a BACK UP QB. He's played with those "weapons" in game situations for how long? When was the last time he started? And the coaches played hide the QB? The COACHES. Not Vick. We get the hate for Vick. It's getting a little old now. But if you want to blame Vick for playing a decent game when there's a lot more out there to blame. Have at it. :coffee:

BTW - Where's the hate for AB? That dropped pass was probably Vick's fault right? :coffee:

Yeah you're right. AB sucks and Vick's a future HOF'er. The fact that Vick that passed for a whopping 33 yards from the start of the 3rd quarter on was an amazing feat. Not sure how the team didn't manage to score more points based on that kind of production?

86WARD
10-02-2015, 12:13 PM
Because that's what I said...:rofl2: I've said many times, many times that Vick didn't play great. He also wasn't terrible. He's just not the one to blame for the loss...and if you want to blame him, there's about 5-6 more people you could blame in front of him.

zulater
10-02-2015, 12:18 PM
He needs to play better period. Hopefully he can. Otherwise there might not be a winnable game on the schedule until Ben comes back. the Ravens were low hanging fruit. I'm not sure if the short week had them out of sorts or if they're just that bad? But I don't think there's many teams that will be as accommodating as the Ravens were last night.

ALLD
10-02-2015, 01:02 PM
Vick was better than expected. He still has rust to knock off, but he should get better as the games continue. Scobee on the other hand, his career is over.

TeeTee
10-02-2015, 01:38 PM
4 Plays lost the game last night, and none were Vicks fault.

The obvious 2 were Scobee, there will be enough discussion about him I am sure, no need to talk about it here

The next bad play was Brown's TD drop. In order for us to win any games with ANY backup QB, our star players needed to step up and make the plays they can, plain and simple. That ball hits Brown in the hands and he didn't make the catch. If you are the top offensive performer on the team, best WR in the game, you HAVE to make those plays when your star QB is out. Those are the plays that win these games.

The last one is the 4th and 2 QB run. I didnt like the call, but it wasnt the worst call, after all Vick had out run the def a couple times already for more than 2 but those were to the long side not the short side. Simply if they would have run the other direction we get the first and game is over. To the edge on the short side of the field is moronic at best. Vick never had a chance, nobody would have as there was not enough room. Running to the long side gives him several chances to cut up the field or simply out run the def to the boundry line for a 1st. For his part though, he did duck his head and dove into the tackles trying to get the first.

I would have put Williams and Bell in and run it up the middle with Williams, but that just makes too much sense.

Vick did exactly what we needed him to do. He took care of the ball (no turnovers). He was efficient in passing. Hell, he even had a nice TD pass that was dropped. The problem is 2 fold for this game. The people that needed to step it up didnt. You can't put the game on the shoulders of our backup and expect to win, that is what your stars are for. Would I like him to be better, of course, but he is a backup for a reason. He is there to NOT lose games he has to play, and he didnt.

Of course you left out the 4th down play where Vick missed an easy pass to AB on 4th down that would have moved the chains. Vick's foot position was terrible and the pass sailed.

steelerdude15
10-02-2015, 01:51 PM
He needs to play better period. Hopefully he can. Otherwise there might not be a winnable game on the schedule until Ben comes back. the Ravens were low hanging fruit. I'm not sure if the short week had them out of sorts or if they're just that bad? But I don't think there's many teams that will be as accommodating as the Ravens were last night.

I'm thinking with 11 days and five full practices before the October 12th match up with the Chargers, he should be able to play better in that game.

- - - Updated - - -


Of course you left out the 4th down play where Vick missed an easy pass to AB on 4th down that would have moved the chains. Vick's foot position was terrible and the pass sailed.

Yeah, a quarterback setting his feet when making a throw is very important fundamentally.

86WARD
10-02-2015, 02:10 PM
He needs to play better period. Hopefully he can. Otherwise there might not be a winnable game on the schedule until Ben comes back. the Ravens were low hanging fruit. I'm not sure if the short week had them out of sorts or if they're just that bad? But I don't think there's many teams that will be as accommodating as the Ravens were last night.

Can't argue that. The Chargers game will be a better gauge IMO of how bad Vick really is. I think we will see a minimum of one to two turnovers out of him...but I also expect to see AB more involved.

StillCurtains
10-02-2015, 02:17 PM
Yeah you're right. AB sucks and Vick's a future HOF'er. The fact that Vick that passed for a whopping 33 yards from the start of the 3rd quarter on was an amazing feat. Not sure how the team didn't manage to score more points based on that kind of production?

WOW man!!!

You seem to refuse to see the forrest for the trees!
What part of Mike Vick is a BACKUP quarterback that had NO TIME to learn the offense in camp with JUST 3 DAYS to prepare for this game don't you understand?

I apologize that under them circumstances that Vick didn't go 31/38 for 381 yards with 4TD's and 0 INT's.
But Vick missed a 4th down throw to AB!!! Yeah he did, but how do you know that if he did make that throw, that AB doesn't drop it?

Did AB not drop a potential TD pass from VICK? Does AB suck? By no means. Do I blame AB for this loss? No I do not. AB can't always make EVERY play and for me that is being realistic. What I CAN so though, is that Vick is our BACKUP quarterback who has been with this team for just close to 2 months.

AB is our starting WR who has been with this team for 6 years now. Like I said he's not the blame for the loss, but he should be MORE INCLINED to make that TD catch for his BACKUP quarterback than a BACKUP QB to be able to make plays for a LONGTIME STARTER!

I haven't heard you mention Scobee, which if he makes 2 FG's, we win. I haven't heard you not question Haley, who just as he removed Williams on goal line vs New England when they couldn't stop him, he also did the same with Bell, while having 129 yards rushing and needing 1 yard on both occassions, he doesn't get a touch, with one call an EMPTY backfield with Vick!

Why don't you look at Tomlin's refusal to intervene with Haley on giving Bell the ball or at least the ILLUSION that he WOULD get it. The truth is though, the coaches don't have to make such risky decisions if Scobee hits 2 FG's.
In reality, I go for it on both occassions as well. Being the head coach, I would have NO CONFIDENCE that Scobee makes the kick.

If Tomlin decided to go for the FG, I'm sure Scobee would have missed and everyone would be talking about what an idiot Tomlin is seeing Scobee missed the previous two.
So the moral of the story is, Scobee put the whole team in a rough spot in that game from Tomlin on down.

Count Steeler
10-02-2015, 02:26 PM
How the game plan and coaching gets a pass is beyond me. This is not on any players. Even Scobee.

We were up 20-7 early in the 3rd. Defense didn't stay aggressive on the next series. Cam Thomas played nose and Forrest had a field day.

If someone can please defend the play calling in the second half! I don't think Vick was allowed much lee way. Looks like the sidelines were trying to control the game. They locked down the offense and bam! We lose.

zulater
10-02-2015, 02:33 PM
WOW man!!!

You seem to refuse to see the forrest for the trees!
What part of Mike Vick is a BACKUP quarterback that had NO TIME to learn the offense in camp with JUST 3 DAYS to prepare for this game don't you understand?

I apologize that under them circumstances that Vick didn't go 31/38 for 381 yards with 4TD's and 0 INT's.
But Vick missed a 4th down throw to AB!!! Yeah he did, but how do you know that if he did make that throw, that AB doesn't drop it?

Did AB not drop a potential TD pass from VICK? Does AB suck? By no means. Do I blame AB for this loss? No I do not. AB can't always make EVERY play and for me that is being realistic. What I CAN so though, is that Vick is our BACKUP quarterback who has been with this team for just close to 2 months.

AB is our starting WR who has been with this team for 6 years now. Like I said he's not the blame for the loss, but he should be MORE INCLINED to make that TD catch for his BACKUP quarterback than a BACKUP QB to be able to make plays for a LONGTIME STARTER!

I haven't heard you mention Scobee, which if he makes 2 FG's, we win. I haven't heard you not question Haley, who just as he removed Williams on goal line vs New England when they couldn't stop him, he also did the same with Bell, while having 129 yards rushing and needing 1 yard on both occassions, he doesn't get a touch, with one call an EMPTY backfield with Vick!

Why don't you look at Tomlin's refusal to intervene with Haley on giving Bell the ball or at least the ILLUSION that he WOULD get it. The truth is though, the coaches don't have to make such risky decisions if Scobee hits 2 FG's.
In reality, I go for it on both occassions as well. Being the head coach, I would have NO CONFIDENCE that Scobee makes the kick.

If Tomlin decided to go for the FG, I'm sure Scobee would have missed and everyone would be talking about what an idiot Tomlin is seeing Scobee missed the previous two.
So the moral of the story is, Scobee put the whole team in a rough spot in that game from Tomlin on down.

Wow man. :yawn:

The forest I see through the trees is this. I can accept a good payer making a bad play... i.e. AB dropping a potential td pass. I can accept a sound coach making a poor play call or even mishandling a given situation. I can even accept a worthless kicker having a putrid day ( and yes among everyone he was far and away most culpable). But the most evident thing I saw through the thicket of trees was that Vick just isn't any damn good. ( as a player, I couldn't give a shit if he's a shitty human being if he can deliver the goods) I saw a player who just looked like he was slogging through quicksand most of the night. He looked like a washed up prize fighter half punch drunk already. Everything he did looked pained and deliberate. Perhaps you see a guy who just needed more practice? Perhaps you're right. I really hope so. But I'm seeing a guy who lost his fast ball who never developed a second pitch and now can't miss a bat. Last night he was lucky enough because no one quite teed of on him. but you come back with that same shit a week Monday and it's going to be lights out against the Chargers. Instead of giving up a steady diet of line drives like the washed up fastballer I see Vick reverting to the turnover machine he's prone to be.

Yeah the results last night could have been worse. But in the end that's really not what drove my opinion. I just don't like what I see from the guy. It's painful to watch him attempt to run our offense.

86WARD
10-02-2015, 02:46 PM
How the game plan and coaching gets a pass is beyond me. This is not on any players. Even Scobee.

We were up 20-7 early in the 3rd. Defense didn't stay aggressive on the next series. Cam Thomas played nose and Forrest had a field day.

If someone can please defend the play calling in the second half! I don't think Vick was allowed much lee way. Looks like the sidelines were trying to control the game. They locked down the offense and bam! We lose.

I don't give it a pass. Not at all. I don't give Scobee a pass either...but even if he makes both FGs, there's no guarantee that the Steelers win.

StillCurtains
10-02-2015, 03:07 PM
Wow man. :yawn:

The forest I see through the trees is this. I can accept a good payer making a bad play... i.e. AB dropping a potential td pass. I can accept a sound coach making a poor play call or even mishandling a given situation. I can even accept a worthless kicker having a putrid day ( and yes among everyone he was far and away most culpable). But the most evident thing I saw through the thicket of trees was that Vick just isn't any damn good. ( as a player, I couldn't give a shit if he's a shitty human being if he can deliver the goods) I saw a player who just looked like he was slogging through quicksand most of the night. He looked like a washed up prize fighter half punch drunk already. Everything he did looked pained and deliberate. Perhaps you see a guy who just needed more practice? Perhaps you're right. I really hope so. But I'm seeing a guy who lost his fast ball who never developed a second pitch and now can't miss a bat. Last night he was lucky enough because no one quite teed of on him. but you come back with that same shit a week Monday and it's going to be lights out against the Chargers. Instead of giving up a steady diet of line drives like the washed up fastballer I see Vick reverting to the turnover machine he's prone to be.

Yeah the results last night could have been worse. But in the end that's really not what drove my opinion. I just don't like what I see from the guy. It's painful to watch him attempt to run our offense.

Ok, so you DO have a Vendetta against Vick! When you just posted that you can accept and just DISREGARD all of the other elements that I've mentioned, but scrutinize a player that hasn't been with the team for 2 months and DID NOT lose the game, you make it obvious. I sure hope you're not approached with a manual in how to repair the engine of a 2016 Volvo with 3 days to prepare.

I'm sure there will be some things that you will be capable of doing after studying for those 3 days, but I'm pretty sure you WOULD NOT have it mastered in that time frame. Knowing the offense is essential to performance. It's more than JUST making throws. When you don't have a full grasp of it, there is TOO MUCH thinking involved as opposed to just reacting when you have a full grasp of it.

Look at Shazier, Tuitt and Bell. None of those players were playing at the highest level in their first year. Bell has a grasp of the offense, and Shazier and Tuitt have a grasp of the defense now compared to last year and are both playing lights out! Why is this? Because when they were trying to LEARN what they had to do, they were thinking through their struggles. Now they all are playing FULL SPEED and REACTING instead of being slowed by THINKING!

Put things in their proper perspective.

zulater
10-02-2015, 03:09 PM
Ok, so you DO have a Vendetta against Vick! When you just posted that you can accept and just DISREGARD all of the other elements that I've mentioned, but scrutinize a player that hasn't been with the team for 2 months and DID NOT lose the game, you make it obvious. I sure hope you're not approached with a manual in how to repair the engine of a 2016 Volvo with 3 days to prepare.

I'm sure there will be some things that you will be capable of doing after studying for those 3 days, but I'm pretty sure you WOULD NOT have it mastered in that time frame. Knowing the offense is essential to performance. It's more than JUST making throws. When you don't have a full grasp of it, there is TOO MUCH thinking involved as opposed to just reacting when you have a full grasp of it.

Look at Shazier, Tuitt and Bell. None of those players were playing at the highest level in their first year. Bell has a grasp of the offense, and Shazier and Tuitt have a grasp of the defense now compared to last year and are both playing lights out! Why is this? Because when they were trying to LEARN what they had to do, they were thinking through their struggles. Now they all are playing FULL SPEED and REACTING instead of being slowed by THINKING!

Put things in their proper perspective.

I have a vendetta against washed up players trying to play qb for my favorite team.

The guys been in the league 15 years. He's been on the team over a month. Offenses aren't that much different from team to team. Vick plays the game slow from the neck up. That wont change next week or the week after or the week after that.

Vendetta my ass. . Get real dude.

StillCurtains
10-02-2015, 03:29 PM
I have a vendetta against washed up players trying to play qb.

The guys been in the league 15 years. He's been on the team over a month. Offenses aren't that much different from team to team. Vick plays the game slow from the neck up. That wont change next week or the wekk after or the week after that.

Vendetta my ass. . Get real dude.

I think YOU should get real. Criticize him next week and thereafter if losses are due to his play, but not last night because it was TRULY not on him. So why don't you just save the rest of us some time and just state the obvious?!

You also STILL did not take into account the evidence that I've stated about some of our STAR players that our now playing at a higher level due to the fact of now knowing the system. You also ignore the fact of you yourself being in a similar situation with limited time to prepare. So now I know that you're just outright irrational.

So continue to whip and lash Vick. Nothing will change your mindset anyway so why should anyone continue to bother. Have fun!

Shoes
10-02-2015, 03:30 PM
All one can hope for is Ben to get well soon and Vick will improve. Vick will be the QB until then or until he gets hurt, then we'll have Landry Jones.

Rotorhead
10-02-2015, 03:51 PM
I didnt forget the bad Vick pass, it was bad, but actually that should have been a roll out to the same side as AB, with Bell in the back field to chip a rusher and be another outlet pass. Then Vick has the option (not to mention better body position) to hit Brown, hit Bell or run for 2 yards. I promise that would have been a 1st down. But what happened is Vick saw AB open, and quickly (to quickly it turns out) tried to hit an open AB. Bad decision for sure, but put Vick in the correct play as stated above and the game is over. They asked him to put the game on his shoulders, throw a pass across his body quickly to an open AB with little practice (remember he was signed at the end of the preseason, doubt he got any 1st team reps before this week) and zero timing and comfort with our top WR. I would bet money he plays better next week just from a practice standpoint, but also because he seemed to be comfortably with MB in his limited preseason play already.

Count Steeler
10-02-2015, 04:09 PM
I don't give it a pass. Not at all. I don't give Scobee a pass either...but even if he makes both FGs, there's no guarantee that the Steelers win.

I didn't think they would. I think the Ravens would have played for the TD and the Steelers wouldn't have stopped them.