Kevin Colbert's investment in Steelers trench players pays dividends

[stillers4me]

The past few seasons have seen a lot of criticism leveled against Pittsburgh's General Manager Kevin Colbert and his draft-day decisions as the Steelers (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/pittsburgh-steelers)' report card declined from making the Super Bowl (http://www.sbnation.com/super-bowl) twice in three years to back-to-back 8-8 seasons. Certain players have been labeled busts and many questions have mounted that targeted the competence of Colbert despite his long list of successful drafts as the team's GM.


While critics have screamed for the Steelers to make more investments in their secondary to adjust the pass-happy NFL, Colbert's focus has never strayed from the objective of making the Steelers a team that can win battles at the line of scrimmage. This focus showed up in the remarkable performance that Pittsburgh had Sunday............

read more @ http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2015/9/22/9365355/kevin-colbert-nfl-draft-picks-pittsburgh-steelers-success-linemen-linebackers-mike-tomlin

[Count Steeler]

Decent article, but no way you can talk about this O Line and not bring up Munchak's name. He transformed this unit and taught them how to play together. Bicknell and Kruger are just way out classed by Munchak.

[tube517]

Decent article, but no way you can talk about this O Line and not bring up Munchak's name. He transformed this unit and taught them how to play together. Bicknell and Kruger are just way out classed by Munchak.


This.

[Dissolv]

Good article. Honestly it was more about how the steelers draft and how it shows their underlying football philosophy more than anything else. Which is why I liked it. There is a reason that a bad year for us is 8-8, and a good year is deep playoff run.


Dissolv

[fansince'76]

Decent article, but no way you can talk about this O Line and not bring up Munchak's name. He transformed this unit and taught them how to play together. Bicknell and Kruger are just way out classed by Munchak.

Agreed. They've become one of the better OLs in the league under Munchak's tutelage.

[cold-hard-steel]

Yep,the MACH V rising .

[fansince'76]

Yep,the MACH V rising .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auszi9bUr3o

:chuckle:

[steelreserve]

Until we brought in Munchak, all that investment in the offensive line was a big old waste of time. The difference that guy has made is incredible.

For that matter, look at all the good he's been able to do with guys who were lower draft picks or UDFAs. You can make the argument that he's saving us a first or second-round draft pick every year, because he can make serviceable players out of those guys, whereas before the only ones who succeeded were the players who were good enough to begin with that they didn't really need coaching.

[Edman]

Agreed. They've become one of the better OLs in the league under Munchak's tutelage.

It also helps to not start traffic cones like Chris Kemoeatu, Sean Mahan, Jon Scott, and Doug Legursky.


Until we brought in Munchak, all that investment in the offensive line was a big old waste of time. The difference that guy has made is incredible.

What investment? Before Pouncey and Decastro, the Steelers rarely took the O-Line seriously.

[steelreserve]

What investment? Before Pouncey and Decastro, the Steelers rarely took the O-Line seriously.


We drafted four offensive linemen in three years with top-2 picks (Pouncey, Gilbert, DeCastro, Adams). Until Munchak arrived, Pouncey alone out of that group was playing up to his potential; DeCastro was getting by on raw ability but not developing into the player we'd hoped he'd be; Gilbert was struggling and Adams downright sucked. Now Pouncey and DeCastro are excellent and Gilbert is serviceable.

Not to mention, he's helped a seventh-round pick (Beachum) become a solid LT and gotten acceptable starting play out of a fourth-rounder (Wallace) and an UDFA (Foster). Under the previous OL coaches, a top-2 pick succeeding was about 50-50 and anything below that was a write-off.

Our OL was actually pretty damn good until we lost four of our starters in a very short time around 2006-07. There was a year or two gap where we didn't do anything about it, and then several years where paid an exorbitant price trying to do something about it, but kept failing because our player development sucked ass.

[fansince'76]

It also helps to not start traffic cones like Chris Kemoeatu, Sean Mahan, Jon Scott, and Doug Legursky.

It also helps when your stud G doesn't accidentally take out your stud C for the year on the first offensive series of the season thanks largely to a worthless OL coach's "teaching" of zone blocking techniques...

[tube517]

It also helps when your stud G doesn't accidentally take out your stud C for the year on the first offensive series of the season thanks largely to a worthless OL coach's "teaching" of zone blocking techniques...

Also when your NON stud RT learns proper footwork from a STUD OL Coach and doesn't fall down and take out the entire team.

[TeeTee]

Good article. Honestly it was more about how the steelers draft and how it shows their underlying football philosophy more than anything else. Which is why I liked it. There is a reason that a bad year for us is 8-8, and a good year is deep playoff run.


Dissolv

Meeee, in the old days they built their DL and LBs without needing to use super high picks. Forgive me if I don't fawn all over Kevvy baby. We have used some higher picks at NT, but our DEs and LBs were over 3rd round or later. Sure, the obligatory mention of more teams using the 3-4, cue here. But we did use first rounders on Pouncey and DD and 2nd rounders on Adams and Gilbert. And we used first rounders on Heyward and a 2nd on Tuitt; they damn well better be decent. And in case anyone missed it, the failure to use higher picks on DBs has our backfield situation as the weakest unit on the entire team. As the Mr. Wolf said in "Pulp Fiction," "Let's not start to suck each other's ............just yet."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojTKkfgvwvU

[steelreserve]

Meeee, in the old days they built their DL and LBs without needing to use super high picks. Forgive me if I don't fawn all over Kevvy baby. We have used some higher picks at NT, but our DEs and LBs were over 3rd round or later. Sure, the obligatory mention of more teams using the 3-4, cue here. But we did use first rounders on Pouncey and DD and 2nd rounders on Adams and Gilbert. And we used first rounders on Heyward and a 2nd on Tuitt; they damn well better be decent. And in case anyone missed it, the failure to use higher picks on DBs has our backfield situation as the weakest unit on the entire team. As the Mr. Wolf said in "Pulp Fiction," "Let's not start to suck each other's ............just yet."


I hear you on that.

We did use a substantial number of high draft picks on the last good OL we had (Faneca - 1, Simmons - 1, M. Smith - 2, Starks - 3, Hartings - 1/FA). So by that standard it's not a whole lot different. Except that we were not getting high-level play out of those high picks this time around until Munchak came along.

As for the defensive side of the ball, I couldn't agree more. Yes, finding talent is harder in the latter half of the draft, but our track record beyond the first and second has been atrocious. In the past 10 drafts, the only defenders from rounds 3-7 who have contributed anything worth a damn are Vince Williams and William Gay, and you can almost count on one hand the number who have even been in a game. That's beyond pathetic, and all the "game-has-changed" and "draft-is-a-crapshoot" in the world is no excuse. It really forced us into a hard place, and made it even more painful when we whiffed on top picks like Hood and possibly J. Jones. You HAVE to do better than that.

[86WARD]

Decent article, but no way you can talk about this O Line and not bring up Munchak's name. He transformed this unit and taught them how to play together. Bicknell and Kruger are just way out classed by Munchak.

Exactly this!!!

[ALLD]

Our STs has gone from atrocious to very good other than the current K problem. The punting unit was fixed with one player, the P. The Williams FA signing was a good deal. We need to do something like that with the secondary or make another trade for depth at S and CB. If the offense picks up the pace, the D is going to be on the field a lot longer and by Week 14 they will be tired.

[polamalubeast]

Our STs has gone from atrocious to very good other than the current K problem. The punting unit was fixed with one player, the P. The Williams FA signing was a good deal. We need to do something like that with the secondary or make another trade for depth at S and CB. If the offense picks up the pace, the D is going to be on the field a lot longer and by Week 14 they will be tired.

The defense will not be on the field 82 plays each game.

The two 17-play drive was the reason why the 49ers had the ball for 37 minutes, but the TOP mean nothing when your strength is your offense.

[Edman]

The "Time Of Possession" game doesn't work if

1) Your Offense doesn't score or you're held to a field goal.

2) Your Defense can't stop the opposing Offense. It doesn't matter how good your TOP is if your Defense is getting burnt.

That's what killed the Steelers all of these years when they played high-octane offenses, like the Patriots. Yeah, run the ball and keep Brady on the sideline...that didn't work because the Defense got torched by Brady anyway, and the Offense just wasn't good enough to match touchdowns.

Its funny how Week 1 wasn't your typical Pats-Steelers matchup, because we actually had the offense to match theirs for once.

[Dissolv]

Meeee, in the old days they built their DL and LBs without needing to use super high picks. Forgive me if I don't fawn all over Kevvy baby. We have used some higher picks at NT, but our DEs and LBs were over 3rd round or later. Sure, the obligatory mention of more teams using the 3-4, cue here. But we did use first rounders on Pouncey and DD and 2nd rounders on Adams and Gilbert. And we used first rounders on Heyward and a 2nd on Tuitt; they damn well better be decent. And in case anyone missed it, the failure to use higher picks on DBs has our backfield situation as the weakest unit on the entire team. As the Mr. Wolf said in "Pulp Fiction," "Let's not start to suck each other's ............just yet."


Soooooooooo, you are saying that I shouldn't have liked the article?



Dissolv

[Mojouw]

Meeee, in the old days they built their DL and LBs without needing to use super high picks. Forgive me if I don't fawn all over Kevvy baby. We have used some higher picks at NT, but our DEs and LBs were over 3rd round or later. Sure, the obligatory mention of more teams using the 3-4, cue here. But we did use first rounders on Pouncey and DD and 2nd rounders on Adams and Gilbert. And we used first rounders on Heyward and a 2nd on Tuitt; they damn well better be decent. And in case anyone missed it, the failure to use higher picks on DBs has our backfield situation as the weakest unit on the entire team. As the Mr. Wolf said in "Pulp Fiction," "Let's not start to suck each other's ............just yet."

But most of that is not true or even realistic. Take a look at what is actually happening. Here are all the DE's. OLB's, and Lb's drafted between 2005 and 2015 for the entire league - http://pfref.com/tiny/fRRmS.

Only 16 of the top 75 players were drafted after round 3 of the draft (21% or around 1 in 5). So this isn't some weird Steelers/Colbert phenomena - it is a dedicated league wide trend towards highly valuing edge rushers on draft day.

Here is every defensive player drafted from 1995-2015 by the Steelers - http://pfref.com/tiny/f9O4s

It is sorted by round. From the 4th round on, useful defensive guys come in at around 7 players. And that doesn't count McCullers, Chickillio, Vince Williams, Shamarko Thomas, and Cortez Allen (alright, the last two aren't "useful"!).

But, but, what about all those later round defensive heros? Do you mean Joey Porter - 3rd Round. Jason Gildon - 3rd Round. Greg Lloyd - finally got one - 6th round. Okay so I guess it wasn't really at OLB that there was all this later round value oozing out of previous drafts. Must have been along the defensive line. Must have been.

Well, actually, not really. Again, looking at the 4th round or later since 1990 - this is the list of guys the Steelers drafted - http://pfref.com/tiny/a6rH7

So that gives us Kiesel, Rodney Bailey, Orpheus Roye, Kevin Henry and Aaron Smith. Two absolute home-runs and a couple of doubles to the gap. In 25 years.

Smith, Kiesel, and Lloyd started the mythology that the Steelers did not invest big early round picks in their front 7. Then the media ran with it because it was neat to talk about. But almost every truly impactful player of the last 10-20 years in the front 7 was either drafted higher than the 4th round or signed from outside the organization.

Finally to quickly look at the Steelers DBs from 1995-2015 - http://pfref.com/tiny/1dKL1

Well, all that can be said about that list is that it stinks. 12 picks before the 4th round in 25 years and only about 2 of them were not awful. Seriously - that list is atrocious. You have to reach back to Carnell Lake and Rod Woodson to even begin to salvage it.

So all in all we can pinpoint the trend it the article as correct and something the Steelers have held to as a draft philosophy for about the last 10-25 years. They will build the front 7 on defense with high picks over the secondary. Every time all the time. They only reach higher in the draft when the secondary becomes a significant drag on the defense, or they feel they do not have any openings along that front 7.

The whole "we used to never use high draft picks on guys" is mostly bunk. Except for the fact that I forget this originally - James Harrison, as always, ruins the curve. So add Harrison in to the totals above. I'm an idiot.

[Dissolv]

I think he just wanted to hit somebody with the Samuel L. Jackson clip.


Dissolv

[ALLD]

LC Greenwood was a 10th round pick in 1969. Definitely had the best shoes of any Steeler draft pick.

[teegre]

James Harrison was riding the pine, until Tomlin had the balls to let Joey Porter go and start Harrison.

I remember everyone calling Tomlin an idiot.

Carry on.

[tube517]

James Harrison was riding the pine, until Tomlin had the balls to let Joey Porter go and start Harrison.

I remember everyone calling Tomlin an idiot.

Carry on.

LOL what message board was that?

I am in the (very old school style message board) Yahoo Steelers list group and most there were fine w/Harrison and not really shocked because of Porter's contract.

[teegre]

LOL what message board was that?

I am in the (very old school style message board) Yahoo Steelers list group and most there were fine w/Harrison and not really shocked because of Porter's contract.

I was on the (dying) About.com message board... as well as a certain board** known for obsessing about "dong" sacks.

**(I don't mention that site by name, because I was banned from it, for celebrating XLIII.)

[TeeTee]

The whole "we used to never use high draft picks on guys" is mostly bunk. Except for the fact that I forget this originally - James Harrison, as always, ruins the curve. So add Harrison in to the totals above. I'm an idiot.

Off the top of my head, great defenders in the front 7 who a high pick was not needed: Porter, Harrison, Lloyd, A. Smith, Keisel, Vrabel (I know, we were too stupid to know how to use him but he was outstanding as a Pat), Earl Homes, Orpheus Roy, Gildon, Kevin Henry, Joel Steed, Hardy Nickerson....................

- - - Updated - - -


James Harrison was riding the pine, until Tomlin had the balls to let Joey Porter go and start Harrison.

I remember everyone calling Tomlin an idiot.

Carry on.

Joey had slipped by then (even though he did have 1 more good season 2 years after he left in Miami).

[steelreserve]

James Harrison was riding the pine, until Tomlin had the balls to let Joey Porter go and start Harrison.

I remember everyone calling Tomlin an idiot.

Carry on.


IIRC, Porter was cut as a salary cap casualty and no one was surprised; and Harrison had been talked up by coaches of all levels in the organization for a year or two. I've called Tomlin an idiot for a lot of things, but not that.

[Mojouw]

Off the top of my head, great defenders in the front 7 who a high pick was not needed: Porter, Harrison, Lloyd, A. Smith, Keisel, Vrabel (I know, we were too stupid to know how to use him but he was outstanding as a Pat), Earl Homes, Orpheus Roy, Gildon, Kevin Henry, Joel Steed, Hardy Nickerson....................

- - - Updated - - -



Joey had slipped by then (even though he did have 1 more good season 2 years after he left in Miami).

I realize it was a long post and written above a grade school level, but I said all that already AND still disproved your overall point. Also Joel Steed was drafted in the 3rd round. Hardly a low-ball pick. So was Gildon. Every other guy I accounted for in my original response.

But, hey, reading is hard. I get it.