Anyone rethinking this day ?

[B&GFever]

Jan.10 2015

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2015/01/10/LeBeau-resigning-as-Steelers-defensive-coordinator/stories/201501100138

[lipps83]

Nope. It wouldn't be any different than it is right now. They probably should have gotten rid of Butler as well. If you are going to rebuild a defense I don't think you do it with a disciple of the one you just got rid of and is partly responsible for the mess you are in.

Needed some fresh blood and that was the chance.

[Count Steeler]

The LeBeau Era is over. Give Butler the same kind of starters then we can compare.

Let's not forget how porous the defense was last year WITH LeBeau.

[fansince'76]

Give Butler the same kind of starters then we can compare.

This. The defense had been getting exposed fairly regularly ever since 2009 when it surrendered five 4th quarter leads to mediocre-to-downright bad competition (Raiders game with Gradkowski hitting Louis Murphy for multiple TDs including the game winner in the final seconds was a particularly low point).

Fact is, whenever the defense didn't have Polamalu performing at a superhuman level (which became a more frequent occurrence in the last couple of years especially), it got gashed more often than not.

[st33lersguy]

We needed to move on. We need to get the young guys playing and LeBeau would only be looking to play the old declining guys over giving the young guys a chance.

[polamalubeast]

I just hope that the performence of today was a fluke, otherwise it'll be a long year for the defense....It is not impossible to see the defense given more than 400 points this year.


I not ask at the defense to be one of the besr in the NFL, but I do not want the defense be historically bad.

[86WARD]

After viewing this preseason, I feel the need to take at least one win off the predicted total of 10-6...

[TD's & Beer]

Nope. It wouldn't be any different than it is right now.


Same players - same result - I agree

maybe if they took that $60M they gave Cam Heyward and bought a secondary it would have made a difference

[steelreserve]

The only difference is we probably still wouldn't have drafted any cornerbacks.

Lebeau did well when we had eight Pro Bowlers on defense including 6 of the front 7. The hardest thing he had to worry about was who had the other CB position opposite Taylor.

I will always appreciate that he took the great players he had and made them into a championship defense, but let's face it - he could not adapt when the personnel situation changed. What's more, we made some bad mistakes and draft reaches trying to force things to fit his scheme when the players just were not there. He was great for the situation we used to have, but it was time to move on.

[GBMelBlount]

I think it will probably be 4-8 games before we know if this young defense will gel this year..

If the front 7 can create pressure it will alleviate a lot of the problems with the porous secondary and I think we have the personnel to do this.

[86WARD]

4 games may be too late with the teams on the Steelers schedule this season.

[GBMelBlount]

4 games may be too late with the teams on the Steelers schedule this season.

We REALLY need to win our divisional games.

[lipps83]

The only difference is we probably still wouldn't have drafted any cornerbacks.

Lebeau did well when we had eight Pro Bowlers on defense including 6 of the front 7. The hardest thing he had to worry about was who had the other CB position opposite Taylor.

I will always appreciate that he took the great players he had and made them into a championship defense, but let's face it - he could not adapt when the personnel situation changed. What's more, we made some bad mistakes and draft reaches trying to force things to fit his scheme when the players just were not there. He was great for the situation we used to have, but it was time to move on.

A lot of people don't understand this. Lebeau walked into a great Steeler defense twice. He did not build them, they were already there. First time in the early 90's and then in 2004. Cowher built those defenses and Lebeau got the best out of them.

In all of his years with the Bengals they were top 10 only twice. He actually took over the leagues top defense in 1984 and dropped them from #1 down to #13. It was his first year of coaching but never had them anywhere near the top. They were usually below average.

Cowher built those defenses. It was Cowher. After Lebeau left the first time the defense was still awesome. The Pittsburgh Steelers defense was two years removed from being #1 when Lebeau came back and was still top ten before the return. Lebeau just capitalized on the talent that was already here.

People forget that he was tasked with rebuilding the Bengal defense in 97 and couldn't do it. He couldn't rebuild the Steeler defense and it just fell apart under his stewardship.

Butler was a mistake. Granted he doesn't have the players either, but he also doesn't appear yet to bring anything new. Same type of defense that the rest of the league has been tearing up for 6 years now. Backs 10 yards off the receivers, receivers wide open. Not forcing mistakes, just hoping mistakes kind of happen.

They need to be put into the position to succeed. They are just in the position to try to get in the way.

I hope Butler makes me eat my words.

[BigNastyDefense]

LeBeau wasn't getting it done. He had become too reliant on Polamalu making big plays, and he didn't want to give any of the younger players a chance to make an impact. I love him for all he did, but it was time for the Steelers to move on from him.

I am not buying this shtick that Butler was a LeBeau disciple. Butler was our LB coach in 2003, LeBeau returned to the Steelers in 2004. Is he running a version of the 3-4? Yeah, but that's what our personnel fits. That's what the team has been running since before LeBeau made his first stop in Pittsburgh. LeBeau ran a two-gap scheme where linemen were responsible for holding up linemen and allowing linebackers to make plays without having to shed blocks. Butler seems to be installing a one-gap scheme where gap coverage is shared by both linemen and linebackers, and the linemen are going to be doing more penetrating instead of just holding up blockers.

I am not going to sit here and say that Butler is a bust of a DC when all we have seen are three PRESEASON games. I haven't had a chance to really watch any of them, but from what I have seen and what I have gathered...it's preseason. Starters mixed in with backups. Guys playing that will be busting tables at Applebees after next week. A lot of rather vanilla defense. I still don't think they're quite sure who's going to start at OLB between Jarvis Jones, James Harrison, Bud Dupree, and Arthur Moats.

I don't think Shamarko Thomas is going to be the answer at strong safety. I know the coaches hope he will, but if he can't stay on the field then he isn't. That isn't Butler's fault. The roster on defense isn't Butler's fault. He can only do his best with the players that he is given. The fact that our corners are substandard for starters is why they are trying to implement some cover-two into the defense, to help them. The Steelers failed to lock up Keenan Lewis and then gave a decent contract to Cortez Allen to try not making the same mistake twice, and Allen may never live up to that contract. Once again, not Butler's fault.

I'll let the season happen and then make my judgement on Butler afterwards. But what I do know is that if LeBeau had been kept, the defense likely wouldn't be any better.

[Butch]

We aint the clowns give the man a chance to prove himself, and that takes more than one year and definitely more than a portion of one pre-season. I aint sayin he will be a success, but let's take a deep breath and give him a chance. Give him time to build his D and work with the players he is dealt before we look for his replacement.

[tube517]

A lot of people don't understand this. Lebeau walked into a great Steeler defense twice. He did not build them, they were already there. First time in the early 90's and then in 2004. Cowher built those defenses and Lebeau got the best out of them.

In all of his years with the Bengals they were top 10 only twice. He actually took over the leagues top defense in 1984 and dropped them from #1 down to #13. It was his first year of coaching but never had them anywhere near the top. They were usually below average.

Cowher built those defenses. It was Cowher. After Lebeau left the first time the defense was still awesome. The Pittsburgh Steelers defense was two years removed from being #1 when Lebeau came back and was still top ten before the return. Lebeau just capitalized on the talent that was already here.

People forget that he was tasked with rebuilding the Bengal defense in 97 and couldn't do it. He couldn't rebuild the Steeler defense and it just fell apart under his stewardship.

Butler was a mistake. Granted he doesn't have the players either, but he also doesn't appear yet to bring anything new. Same type of defense that the rest of the league has been tearing up for 6 years now. Backs 10 yards off the receivers, receivers wide open. Not forcing mistakes, just hoping mistakes kind of happen.

They need to be put into the position to succeed. They are just in the position to try to get in the way.

I hope Butler makes me eat my words.

Cowher had a lot of help when he first came to Pittsburgh. For the defense, he had Dom Capers, Dick LeBeau and Marvin Lewis. They instituted LeBeau's scheme. Capers let LeBeau have a lot of input. So, yes, he did "inherit" a great defense and great players. But, he had a big part in the "reinvention" of the Steeler defensive philosophy for the past 23 years.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2015/01/23/Dick-LeBeau-left-indelible-imprint-on-Steelers-NFL-as-coach-innovator-and-Coach-Dad/stories/201501230096


“Coach LeBeau was an innovator and coach Capers was really smart,” Donahoe said. “And they had a great relationship. Dom gave Dick a lot of input. I can remember the first time we would put something on tape there was an element of surprise for opposing coaches. It was always something they had never seen before.


As far as the 2004 team he took over, the previous 2 years, the pass defense was horrible. (Chad Scott and DeWayne Washington! LOL) The Cheats** and Raiders shredded the pass defense in the first 2 games of 2002. They used the same philosophy that the Bengals used in the previous year. He did luck out as they already had a young Troy and Farrior became better. Aaron Smith, Big Snack and Kimo anchored that line.

With that said, I think it was time for LeBeau to move on. Teams have figured out his scheme. You can even go back to 2001 when the Bungles just kept passing and won the game. LeBeau wasn't the coach but his scheme was still being used.

For Butler, way too early to tell. Not even one regular season game played. Am I worried? Yes. I don't trust the secondary or the OLBs (except Deebo and Moats but that's scary if nobody else steps up)

[polamalubeast]

Only the titans have a worst passing defense(QB rating) than the steelers in the preseason


http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2015&seasonType=PRE&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING

[lipps83]

Only the titans have a worst passing defense(QB rating) than the steelers in the preseason


http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2015&seasonType=PRE&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING

Where did Lebeau go to after the Steelers?

[cold-hard-steel]

I have not had the pleasure of seeing our starting defensive unit on the field. I know the keys to a good defense never changes.Don't think it ever will.Just like personell will always change.You have to be adept,and consistant at stopping the run.No matter how you acheive it you have got to constantly pressure or get the sacks in obvious passing situations.Without the quarterback harrassment it will more than likely crumble from there.
I don't care who your corners or safeties are,unless you have 4 or 5 Troys on the field no pressure or sacks on the QB equals loss after loss.Even a supercharged offense isn't gonna bail you out all the time. This of course is only my take on this defense i have yet to see take the field .

[lipps83]

As far as the 2004 team he took over, the previous 2 years, the pass defense was horrible. (Chad Scott and DeWayne Washington! LOL) The Cheats** and Raiders shredded the pass defense in the first 2 games of 2002. They used the same philosophy that the Bengals used in the previous year. He did luck out as they already had a young Troy and Farrior became better. Aaron Smith, Big Snack and Kimo anchored that line.

In 2001 Chad Scott and Dewayne Washington were starters in the backfield for the leagues 4th best pass defense. They certainly had their difficulties, but they were not horrible all the time or maybe even as bad as we remember.

Not saying they were great by any means, they were adequate.


http://i58.tinypic.com/2lux460.jpg

[tube517]

In 2001 Chad Scott and Dewayne Washington were starters in the backfield for the leagues 4th best pass defense. They certainly had their difficulties, but they were not horrible all the time or maybe even as bad as we remember.

Not saying they were great by any means, they were adequate.


http://i58.tinypic.com/2lux460.jpg

Re-read my post. I'm talking 2002-03. This was after that late season 2001 game vs Cincy. Yes, they had a decent year in 2001 but the weaknesses showed in 2002-03. They certainly were not "adequate" as they were both eventually replaced by the end of 2004.


Also, they re-signed Willie Williams in 2004. On the surface, just a depth sigining but he played decent and had to play because Chad Scott got hurt. Deshea Townsend replaced Washington in 2004. Williams was no all-pro but he held his own that year. Ike took over in 2005. That was a great defense in 2004.

[86WARD]

I never understood the hate on Scott and Washington. They weren't terrible and I'd take that kind of play today over what the Steelers will potentially be fielding this season...