Steeler fans protest Vick, not going to games

[TeeTee]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13519067/protesters-speak-pittsburgh-steelers-signing-michael-vick

Watch the video. She has a point.

[TD's & Beer]

If anybody wants to give away their Steelers gear and game tickets...PM me...I'll be discreet

[Count Steeler]

I was going to respond, but I am choosing not to engage in this debate any longer.

I will discuss his on field capabilities and lack thereof, but his life is his life, at this point.

[fansince'76]

"I bought season tix, but my seats will remain empty!"

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/throwing-money-down-toilet-8119693.jpg

If it were my season tix, you can bet your ass that I'd be at least trying to resell them and make a profit.

Funny enough, I also noticed she didn't utter a peep about surrendering her PSL. I mean, if she's so committed to the cause, why not go all the way, not to mention let someone else who has been sitting for years on the waiting list have a crack at them? Yeah, that's what I thought. :coffee:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Mark Kaboly ‏@MarkKaboly_Trib

I think this is classy -- Art Rooney stops and talks to the Vick protesters when leaving facility.

All 9 of them.

https://twitter.com/MarkKaboly_Trib

[steelreserve]

13,000 Facebook likes. 4 protesters who actually showed up. Yeah, that's a cause worth taking seriously.


http://i.imgur.com/XkSd0Va.png

[TeeTee]

"I bought season tix, but my seats will remain empty!"

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/throwing-money-down-toilet-8119693.jpg

If it were my season tix, you can bet your ass that I'd be at least trying to resell them and make a profit.

Funny enough, I also noticed she didn't utter a peep about surrendering her PSL. I mean, if she's so committed to the cause, why not go all the way, not to mention let someone else who has been sitting for years on the waiting list have a crack at them? Yeah, that's what I thought. :coffee:

It's pretty doubtful Vick will be on the roster next season. She will be back after he isn't on the team.

[JoeyPorter55]

Any so-called "fan" who decides to completely turn their back on all of the players, coaches, and memories that they admittedly "love" is no fan through my eyes and I won't miss them a bit

I've seen how many fans we sport during ROAD GAMES let alone when we're at home. I think we'll be just fine

[SteelerFanInStl]

Let them stay home. It won't bother me a bit.

I'm tired of these "holier than thou" people who think that it's their job to judge others.

This is football, not a church.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Let them stay home. It won't bother me a bit.

I'm tired of these "holier than thou" people who think that it's their job to judge others.

This is football, not a church.

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at Michael Vick....

[salamander]

If anybody wants to give away their Steelers gear and game tickets...PM me...I'll be discreet

I'm with TD's. If anyone wants to give up their tickets, just let me know. :chuckle:

[cold-hard-steel]

All those people who like or are involved in dog fighting will become Steeler fans now more than likely.We will probably gain more than enough fans to replace the ones that are leaving. LOL!!!!!!!

[Edman]

This needed a thread because...

[hawaiiansteeler]

This needed a thread because...

http://i.imgur.com/s3ZFQ2I.gif

[TeeTee]

Let them stay home. It won't bother me a bit.

I'm tired of these "holier than thou" people who think that it's their job to judge others.

This is football, not a church.

Well, I don't think being against murdering and torturing dogs means you're "holier than thou."

[GoSlash27]

I've been a Steelers fan since I was a little kid and I haven't missed a game in so long that I can't even remember anymore. I had Franco sign my first towel at his house.
I've been there through the hard times, through the preseason games, and done the "road warrior" thing throughout the midwest, but...
Sorry folks, but even I have my limits. I won't be watching Steeler games, showing the colors, or buying any gear until Vick is gone.

I just plain can't do it. If that means I'm not a "real" Steelers fan, then I guess I must not be. I will happily rejoin the bandwagon once he's gone.

[fansince'76]

I won't be watching Steeler games, showing the colors, or buying any gear until Vick is gone.

See ya in '16, then. :hatsoff:

[GBMelBlount]

See ya in '16, then. :hatsoff:

Take care slash. :wave:

[Count Steeler]

I've been a Steelers fan since I was a little kid and I haven't missed a game in so long that I can't even remember anymore. I had Franco sign my first towel at his house.
I've been there through the hard times, through the preseason games, and done the "road warrior" thing throughout the midwest, but...
Sorry folks, but even I have my limits. I won't be watching Steeler games, showing the colors, or buying any gear until Vick is gone.

I just plain can't do it. If that means I'm not a "real" Steelers fan, then I guess I must not be. I will happily rejoin the bandwagon once he's gone.

To each his own. If, I may, with all due respect, ask if you watched the NY Jets game last year? Just wondering where and why you draw the line at the Steelers. If Vick is that detestable to you, why would you not draw the line at the NFL in general?

[B&GFever]

if only people would take such strong stances against abortion , or planned parenthood selling baby parts .

animals should never supersede Humans as humans where made in Gods image not monkeys , cats , dogs or mice for good reason we are the planets supreme rulers yet so many are bleeding hearts over them instead of US

[Butch]

Please add me to the list of those who would like to have tickets...would love to see the Steelers vs rats this year if possible. Just sayin'.

[lipps83]

Well, I don't think being against murdering and torturing dogs means you're "holier than thou."

No, but choosing against forgiveness and second chances based on behaviors from 10 years ago does.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Well, I don't think being against murdering and torturing dogs means you're "holier than thou."

The man paid dearly for his crimes and by all accounts, has turned his life around. Hate him all you want but to protest against a professional sports team just because they signed him is ridiculous.

Most of these people probably have hidden sins of their own. As the old saying goes, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

This happened 8 years ago. It's time for people to get over it.

[86WARD]

She'll be selling her tickets online...no doubt.

[fansince'76]

She'll be selling her tickets online...no doubt.

She'd be foolish not to. She could easily get 3-5 times face value (or more).

[GoSlash27]

To each his own. If, I may, with all due respect, ask if you watched the NY Jets game last year? Just wondering where and why you draw the line at the Steelers. If Vick is that detestable to you, why would you not draw the line at the NFL in general?

Count,
I suppose it's because I'm not a fan of the NFL in general. I do not identify with the NFL. I identify with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Maybe that's just a thing that applies to my generation and it sounds weird to folks who aren't in my generation.
I watched all the games we played against Dallas when they were the "work release" franchise. I watched all the games against shady teams and rooted for our team because I always believed that we were the "good guys".
If NFL football is merely just various groups of scumbags duking it out for supremacy, then there's no reason for me to differentiate one uniform or team from another. I don't particularly care who wins or why.
TL;DR:
I can back the Steelers when they are the "Rooney Class" team. I can't support them when they're just another random gang of thugs and miscreants who "win at all costs" and just happen to wear the black and gold. It would be easier if I could, but I can't.
It pains me, because I don't know how to not be a Steeler fan. I've never been anything else. But I can't bring myself to support this. I will take a stand and let them know that (as Tomlin would say) this is below the line. I would rather go 0-16 this season than have Vick soiling my beloved black 'n' gold.

That's just me, though. You folks do what you like. ;)

Best,
-Slashy

[vindrow]

I like pie.

[B&GFever]

The era of " the Rooney way " passed long ago when Free Agency came into play

The game was no longer about drafting your Lunch Pal mentality hard working , humble but hungry young men who was brought up with morals and a value system that was as American as Apple pie .

the game became more of a Business then and with any good Business model you have to have the best possible employees (players) to utilize your business plan with .

Anything less than the very best available talent was going to hurt your business model and consequently your chances to succeed ..

Hiring Vick was just that , getting the best possible backup QB at the time on the open market to complete your business plan so you have a chance over the long haul .

It was not about securing a choir boy , a lunch pal guy or even someone who remotely held the same value system as the next guy , it was to get the best possible backup option available from a business perspective ..

It is not a daycare where you have to screen applicants and they have to pass clearances as the team is full of nothing but grown men who many are ruthless , brutal and hard nosed as you may find in any sector of life .

Lets face it football can be a brutal game played by brutal men , not many choir boys are in attendance .

Do I wish we had 100% good citizens on the team , absolutely but in today's society and today's that is just not possible however I doubt the sample of men wearing black n gold are no different than the average sector of men working at the local construction site , some good some bad in all of them , not everyone is a model citizen on that site nor are they on the football team it is just how life works , like it or not.

Sure we fantasize about days gone by about how our Steelers where a cut above the rest on and off the field but you know what it is just that a fantasy none of them had hallows or wings ( even though at times it sure seemed like it ) . We employed some men back in the day that you certainly would not want as house guests but you may over look it because of their fame we just did not have a media like we do today where every little thing they do is under the microscope ( not that dog fighting is a little thing ) ..

It is not like they signed Donte Stallworth fresh out of jail for DUI homicide but for me human vs human crime is a lot worse than human vs animal .

I often wonder how is Mike Vick any worse than a trophy hunter who hunts purely for the mount he puts on the wall instead of the meat he puts on the table ?

for me not a whole lot of difference .

maybe your take is quite different I don't know but I will not lose any sleep over this , nor will I miss any games

either way best of luck awaiting 2016

[Edman]

Well, I don't think being against murdering and torturing dogs means you're "holier than thou."

Being against that is one thing.

Being against forgiveness is another thing. Especially against one who has already paid the price for his crime.

Should I remind you of a certain #7 whom has embarrassed the Steelers franchise not once but twice in two seperate offseasons due to his own stupidity, but we still cheer for to this day?

[salamander]

I like pie.

Fan of blueberry myself. :heh:

[tube517]

http://i.imgur.com/s3ZFQ2I.gif
:rofl2:

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2

[CapLovesTroyP43]

if only people would take such strong stances against abortion , gay marriage or planned parenthood selling baby parts .

animals should never supersede Humans as humans where made in Gods image not monkeys , cats , dogs or mice for good reason we are the planets supreme rulers yet so many are bleeding hearts over them instead of US

There fixed that one for you but I sure do agree to a point about the abortion, gay marriage and planned parenthood. I bet you Ovomit is LOVING every minute of it.

[GoSlash27]

The era of " the Rooney way " passed long ago when Free Agency came into play

The game was no longer about drafting your Lunch Pal mentality hard working , humble but hungry young men who was brought up with morals and a value system that was as American as Apple pie .

the game became more of a Business then and with any good Business model you have to have the best possible employees (players) to utilize your business plan with .


Evidently. The problem is that while I can root for "the Rooney way", I cannot work up enough 'give a damn' to root for a "business model". Perhaps the league has passed me by and I'm just a relic from a bygone era, but I can't imagine why anyone would care about the fortunes of a "business" that doesn't benefit them.

Anywho, thanks for the kind words.

Best,
-Slashy

[86WARD]

Count,
I suppose it's because I'm not a fan of the NFL in general. I do not identify with the NFL. I identify with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Maybe that's just a thing that applies to my generation and it sounds weird to folks who aren't in my generation.
I watched all the games we played against Dallas when they were the "work release" franchise. I watched all the games against shady teams and rooted for our team because I always believed that we were the "good guys".
If NFL football is merely just various groups of scumbags duking it out for supremacy, then there's no reason for me to differentiate one uniform or team from another. I don't particularly care who wins or why.
TL;DR:
I can back the Steelers when they are the "Rooney Class" team. I can't support them when they're just another random gang of thugs and miscreants who "win at all costs" and just happen to wear the black and gold. It would be easier if I could, but I can't.
It pains me, because I don't know how to not be a Steeler fan. I've never been anything else. But I can't bring myself to support this. I will take a stand and let them know that (as Tomlin would say) this is below the line. I would rather go 0-16 this season than have Vick soiling my beloved black 'n' gold.

That's just me, though. You folks do what you like. ;)

Best,
-Slashy

That Rooney holier than thou shit went out the door loooooooong ago.

You got Ben and his numerous troubles. Harrison and his troubles. leVeon Bell, Maurkice Pouncey and his thug life, Martavis Bryant, LeGarrette Blount, Santonio Holmes...the list goes on and on...

It's the way of the NFL now. They all smoke weed...if they don't, there's something wrong with them...or they're lying...lol.

[GoSlash27]

That Rooney holier than thou shit went out the door loooooooong ago.

You got Ben and his numerous troubles. Harrison and his troubles. leVeon Bell, Maurkice Pouncey and his thug life, Martavis Bryant, LeGarrette Blount, Santonio Holmes...the list goes on and on...

It's the way of the NFL now. They all smoke weed...if they don't, there's something wrong with them...or they're lying...lol.

So why not just be Patriots fans instead? That holier- than- thou "we don't cheat" shit went out the window long ago. Why not? Belichick wins games and that's ultimately what's important, right? Why not just put the Patriots in black 'n' gold and pretend that they're the Steelers? For that matter, why even bother changing the colors? Why not just go ahead and root for the red white and blue? What significance does the color make?

[smokin3000gt]

"My husband bought season tix, but my seats will remain empty!"




Fixed it for ya. Also is it just me or does she look a little methy?

[Devilsdancefloor]

the man made a mistake paid his due to society has proven to have reformed himself. I love dogs have 3 bothers me a bit, but im sure the rooneys did there homework and i trust them

[Butch]

I have always stuck by Ben and I will do the same now for Vic. The organization may not be as pure as the 1st fallen snow, but tell me what other team has cut a Super Bowl MVP for smoking dope??? for a 5th round pick at that???

I'll say this much for Vic, he stood up and admitted he did wrong. He was not there when the bust went down and could have easily put the blame on his brother and everyone else who was in the house. He took the blame and he did his time that speaks volumes when you compare him to Shady brady and the sleezy deflatriots, yet he is the one that so many protest and despise. If nothing else at least he took it like a man.

I remember when Vic 1st came out of college he held a press conference in the boys club in Newport news and would not leak the story ahead of time because he wanted to give back to his community. I thought that was a pretty classy move on his part.

It's to bad that some here are losing their faith in the team and the organization, hopefully they will reconsider. I feel this team and the city will weather the storm and it will be a good year to be a fan.

[katmandu]

Mark Kaboly ‏@MarkKaboly_Trib

I think this is classy -- Art Rooney stops and talks to the Vick protesters when leaving facility.

All 9 of them.

https://twitter.com/MarkKaboly_TribNo. 8.

Actually 6 adults and 2 children.

- - - Updated - - -


the man made a mistake paid his due to society has proven to have reformed himself. I love dogs have 3 bothers me a bit, but im sure the rooneys did there homework and i trust themx2.

Haters don't know how to do anything but hate. Without hate, they have nothing. Sorry souls they are.

- - - Updated - - -


I'll say this much for Vic, he stood up and admitted he did wrong. He was not there when the bust went down and could have easily put the blame on his brother and everyone else who was in the house.

He took the blame and he did his time that speaks volumes when you compare him to Shady brady and the sleezy deflatriots, yet he is the one that so many protest and despise. If nothing else at least he took it like a man.Too bad Cris Carter wasn't around for his Rookie emporium to tell how about having a "FALL GUY".

According to Cris Carter, all Vick's troubles never would have happened had he had a FALL GUY.

[steelreserve]

Too bad Cris Carter wasn't around for his Rookie emporium to tell how about having a "FALL GUY".

According to Cris Carter, all Vick's troubles never would have happened had he had a FALL GUY.


Funny thing, I remember at the time reading that Vick had a guy who he paid to be the one carrying the weed through airport security and that guy (maybe more than one different guy) got busted for it a few times. And at first his friends were going to take the complete fall for the dog thing too. But if you get yourself in shit THAT deep, I guess even that doesn't help.

[Godfather]

So why not just be Patriots fans instead? That holier- than- thou "we don't cheat" shit went out the window long ago. Why not? Belichick wins games and that's ultimately what's important, right? Why not just put the Patriots in black 'n' gold and pretend that they're the Steelers? For that matter, why even bother changing the colors? Why not just go ahead and root for the red white and blue? What significance does the color make?

I don't think you're any less of a fan. Being a Steeler is supposed to mean something. Why not go out and sign Ray Rice since we need depth at running back, or bring in Leonard Little since we need some help on the defensive line. At some point, we're just rooting for laundry.

[86WARD]

So why not just be Patriots fans instead? That holier- than- thou "we don't cheat" shit went out the window long ago. Why not? Belichick wins games and that's ultimately what's important, right? Why not just put the Patriots in black 'n' gold and pretend that they're the Steelers? For that matter, why even bother changing the colors? Why not just go ahead and root for the red white and blue? What significance does the color make?

I'd trade Tomlin for Belicheat every day...lol.

[86WARD]

I don't think you're any less of a fan. Being a Steeler is supposed to mean something. Why not go out and sign Ray Rice since we need depth at running back, or bring in Leonard Little since we need some help on the defensive line. At some point, we're just rooting for laundry.

Jerry Seinfeld.

[SteelerFanInStl]

So why not just be Patriots fans instead? That holier- than- thou "we don't cheat" shit went out the window long ago. Why not? Belichick wins games and that's ultimately what's important, right? Why not just put the Patriots in black 'n' gold and pretend that they're the Steelers? For that matter, why even bother changing the colors? Why not just go ahead and root for the red white and blue? What significance does the color make?
All of those `issues` are off the field. What the Pats are doing is on the field. Big difference there.

[86WARD]

Not if you ask patriots fans.

[GoSlash27]

All of those `issues` are off the field. What the Pats are doing is on the field. Big difference there.

It's not a big difference to me. I'm pretty sure there is *some* point for every member on this board where they say "Yeah... no. I can't go along with this". Maybe it's a convicted child molester or serial killer in your case, but it's something.
This happens to be my cutoff point. A Pimp Named Slickback can't cosign on this.

[Count Steeler]

It's not a big difference to me. I'm pretty sure there is *some* point for every member on this board where they say "Yeah... no. I can't go along with this". Maybe it's a convicted child molester or serial killer in your case, but it's something.
This happens to be my cutoff point. A Pimp Named Slickback can't cosign on this.

I don't think it is fair to lump all the dissenting fans in one category.

I don't think this is a knee jerk reaction by you and I respect your stand. I have a differing view, but I am in no means going to try and convince you to see it my way.

I also understand the meaning of your logo.

[TeeTee]

I have always stuck by Ben and I will do the same now for Vic. The organization may not be as pure as the 1st fallen snow, but tell me what other team has cut a Super Bowl MVP for smoking dope??? for a 5th round pick at that???

I'll say this much for Vic, he stood up and admitted he did wrong. He was not there when the bust went down and could have easily put the blame on his brother and everyone else who was in the house. He took the blame and he did his time that speaks volumes when you compare him to Shady brady and the sleezy deflatriots, yet he is the one that so many protest and despise. If nothing else at least he took it like a man.

I remember when Vic 1st came out of college he held a press conference in the boys club in Newport news and would not leak the story ahead of time because he wanted to give back to his community. I thought that was a pretty classy move on his part.

It's to bad that some here are losing their faith in the team and the organization, hopefully they will reconsider. I feel this team and the city will weather the storm and it will be a good year to be a fan.

Revisionist's history. Vick did NOT admit blame and take accountability. He pleaded innocent. Gave all kinds of excuses and tried to lie his way out of it. Now you are changing the story to Vick manning up and coming clean for this? Not until he was found guilty in court and served 18 months in prison. And like this lady said, anyone who could EVER do such heinous acts to dogs doesn't have the ability to actually, truly become sincerely enlightened. He just says the right stuff now and obviously won't go back to killing dogs at this point. He was coached up on what to do and how to act.

All that being said, I don't have a problem with the signing, personally. I am pretty sure he isn't going to start another dog fighting ring. But I respect the right of others to not forgive him. My bigger concern is that if he does play, he seems to get a concussion if someone breathes on him, and drops the ball if he is touched. But he is better than Jones..........but everyone is. Every back up I have seen play this preseason looks better than Jones. Even rookies. That is really bad.

[GoSlash27]

I don't think it is fair to lump all the dissenting fans in one category.

I don't think this is a knee jerk reaction by you and I respect your stand. I have a differing view, but I am in no means going to try and convince you to see it my way.

I also understand the meaning of your logo.

Thanks Count! You're awesome as always! :drink:
Likewise, I understand completely that not everybody's going to feel as strongly about this or take the same view. I'm not going to try to convince anybody else to join me.

Best,
-Slashy

[dduc996]

A lot of women kill there own babies and yet we still love our women. Why are Vicks dogs valued higher ?

PLAY BALL !!!

[zulater]

It's not a big difference to me. I'm pretty sure there is *some* point for every member on this board where they say "Yeah... no. I can't go along with this". Maybe it's a convicted child molester or serial killer in your case, but it's something.
This happens to be my cutoff point. A Pimp Named Slickback can't cosign on this.

I respect your stance Slash. And I wont try to talk you out of it. But I will tell you why I'm not with you on this. Because while what Vick did was reprehensible he did in fact pay his debt to society. He didn't try to pull a shady -Brady and out-maneuver or manipulate the system. He lost a lot. He probably paid a steeper price than anyone ever has for that particular crime. And afterwards he paid off all of his creditors in full. Unlike many who declare bankruptcy who end up paying as little as 10 cents on a dollar Vick paid his debts in full.


Joseph Luzinski, a senior vice president at Development Specialists Inc., a management consultancy firm and the liquidating trustee in Vick’s case, told ESPN that Vick has paid off more than $15 million of the $17.8 million he owed.
“What Michael did was the exception, not the rule,” Luzinski said. “He didn’t have to do this. The law allows you to skate by and pay your creditors 10 or 20 cents on the dollar, but he thought this was the right thing to do.”
Vick told ESPN he could have filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy, which would have forgiven most of his debt. Instead, he wanted to pay people back.
“I didn’t want to stiff people who never stiffed me,” Vick told ESPN


http://nypost.com/2014/12/17/michael-vick-close-to-paying-off-full-18m-debt-report/

Everything this man has done since getting out of jail speaks of someone who not only paid their debt to society but came out the other end a better person. I have no problem with the Steelers signing this man.

But again I respect your right to see it differently.

[SteelFever]

the man made a mistake paid his due to society has proven to have reformed himself. I love dogs have 3 bothers me a bit, but im sure the rooneys did there homework and i trust them

Apparently the Animal Rescue League as well as the NFL itself does not agree with Rooney"s decision, and they are taking action.

Animal Rescue league was supposed to have a fund raiser at Heinz Field but have now moved it to the Consol Energy Center, because of the signing.


Not only that but the NFL has now taken action as well, because of his being in the league again reflects on the entire NFL.


They have announced that they will no longer accept any Steelers merchandise or memorabilia in their auctions at this or any other function.


This is the explanation given by the NFL:


The league said it is "disheartened" by the Steelers' decision to sign Vick, who served time in federal prison for his involvement in an interstate dogfighting ring and decided to move the venue after internal discussions.


"While we understand that Mr. Vick has made an effort to atone for his past mistakes and has worked to help strengthen animal abuse laws, we do not believe that it is appropriate for him to continue a high-profile and influential public career," the release states.


"Our hope is that the very public discourse taking place across Steeler Nation this week raises awareness of the brutality and inhumanity of dog fighting. With increased community knowledge of the issue, we can all play a role in helping to end dog fighting once and for all."


You can read about it on the Post Gazette:
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2015/08/27/Animal-Rescue-League-moves-fundraiser-from-Heinz-Field-in-response-to-Vick-signing/stories/201508270232

[zulater]

Apparently the Animal Rescue League as well as the NFL itself does not agree with Rooney"s decision, and they are taking action.

Animal Rescue league was supposed to have a fund raiser at Heinz Field but have now moved it to the Consol Energy Center, because of the signing.


Not only that but the NFL has now taken action as well, because of his being in the league again reflects on the entire NFL.


They have announced that they will no longer accept any Steelers merchandise or memorabilia in their auctions at this or any other function.


This is the explanation given by the NFL:


The league said it is "disheartened" by the Steelers' decision to sign Vick, who served time in federal prison for his involvement in an interstate dogfighting ring and decided to move the venue after internal discussions.


"While we understand that Mr. Vick has made an effort to atone for his past mistakes and has worked to help strengthen animal abuse laws, we do not believe that it is appropriate for him to continue a high-profile and influential public career," the release states.


"Our hope is that the very public discourse taking place across Steeler Nation this week raises awareness of the brutality and inhumanity of dog fighting. With increased community knowledge of the issue, we can all play a role in helping to end dog fighting once and for all."


You can read about it on the Post Gazette:
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2015/08/27/Animal-Rescue-League-moves-fundraiser-from-Heinz-Field-in-response-to-Vick-signing/stories/201508270232

The NFL made no such statement. The league quoted was the Animal Rescue league. The NFL is fully supportive of Mike Vick. Roger Goodell is on record saying as much.

[steelreserve]

Apparently the Animal Rescue League as well as the NFL itself does not agree with Rooney"s decision, and they are taking action.

Animal Rescue league was supposed to have a fund raiser at Heinz Field but have now moved it to the Consol Energy Center, because of the signing.


Not only that but the NFL has now taken action as well, because of his being in the league again reflects on the entire NFL.


They have announced that they will no longer accept any Steelers merchandise or memorabilia in their auctions at this or any other function.


This is the explanation given by the NFL:


The league said it is "disheartened" by the Steelers' decision to sign Vick, who served time in federal prison for his involvement in an interstate dogfighting ring and decided to move the venue after internal discussions.


"While we understand that Mr. Vick has made an effort to atone for his past mistakes and has worked to help strengthen animal abuse laws, we do not believe that it is appropriate for him to continue a high-profile and influential public career," the release states.


"Our hope is that the very public discourse taking place across Steeler Nation this week raises awareness of the brutality and inhumanity of dog fighting. With increased community knowledge of the issue, we can all play a role in helping to end dog fighting once and for all."


You can read about it on the Post Gazette:
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2015/08/27/Animal-Rescue-League-moves-fundraiser-from-Heinz-Field-in-response-to-Vick-signing/stories/201508270232


It's not the NFL that said that. When they say "The league" halfway through the story, they're still referring to the Animal Rescue League, not the NFL.

If the NFL came out and said something like that over the signing of a player, the lawsuits and union grievances would be flying a millisecond after they hit the send key.

I also have more than a little problem where they say "we do not believe that it is appropriate for him to continue a high-profile and influential public career." Like - who the fuck are you to tell people they're not allowed to make a living? I've got more respect for Vick than for people who get their kicks out of trolling someone for a decade.

[zulater]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/26/roger-goodell-says-he-admires-michael-vick/
I’ll be happy to talk about the general views toward Michael,” Goodell said. “I think Michael is a young man who made a tragic mistake. He paid a very heavy price for it. But I’ve seen him, in everything he’s done, exceed expectations. He has worked very hard to be a positive force in a lot of different areas. And I think that’s something I admire about him. When we went through the process of reviewing whether he would enter back into the league, he demonstrated he’s somebody who’s committed to saying, ‘I’m going to do this the right way. I’m going to be a positive force.’ And he has. I’m proud of the work he’s done.”

[SteelFever]

The NFL made no such statement. The league quoted was the Animal Rescue league. The NFL is fully supportive of Mike Vick. Roger Goodell is on record saying as much.

Okay, I miss-understood what they meant by "The League", however I am sure the NFL cannot be happy about reopening this hornets nest of bad publicity for the NFL, with all the other things going on at this time.

[zulater]

Okay, I miss-understood what they meant by "The League", however I am sure the NFL cannot be happy about reopening this hornets nest of bad publicity for the NFL, with all the other things going on at this time.

The league is fine with Vick. And 20,000 attention seeking- agenda driven mostly non Steeler and or football "fans" don't concern them in the slightest. Of the 20,000 I would wager you 19,990 couldn't tell you who Ramon Foster is. :coffee:

[steel striker]

Just about every team has players that have had or is having off the field issues and, that is a fact. At the end of the day teams sign players they think that will help the team. This is not the all choir boy league and, sure there plenty of players that I don't care for as well. I'm a animal lover and, no I don't like what Vick did. Again at some point you have move on but, I respect anyone who just can't get past of having him on the Steelers. I still think he has changed and, look what he lost? Just about everything.. If you want to root for a good person root for Tebow. My wife loves that guy sorry for going off topic.

[TeeTee]

It's not the NFL that said that. When they say "The league" halfway through the story, they're still referring to the Animal Rescue League, not the NFL.

If the NFL came out and said something like that over the signing of a player, the lawsuits and union grievances would be flying a millisecond after they hit the send key.

I also have more than a little problem where they say "we do not believe that it is appropriate for him to continue a high-profile and influential public career." Like - who the fuck are you to tell people they're not allowed to make a living? I've got more respect for Vick than for people who get their kicks out of trolling someone for a decade.

I didn't think so. Why would the NFL allow him back in the league only to back track like that? Made no sense.

[Mamaduck43]

I am pro-Vick signing... I don't like what he did - - but, he has already paid a huge price and faces consequences every day - - his earning power was destroyed, his reputation was shot, he served time, he has done an abundance of community service projects, and he ran the gauntlet to get back to playing ball - - a game he loves, and has an amount of skill playing... Granted, he probably would have problems finding a job just about anywhere else... The fact that he persevered, shows that he has a lot of qualities that we should accept gladly because they are Steelers qualities....

Steelers fans are unique - - when we have a bad game or a bad day, I absolutely hate coming in here because we are beating each other over the head and are asking for the heads of the coaches, the players and whoever doesn't meet the standard of the day.... We talk about fan bases from other teams getting down on us.... Hell, they are usually kinder and more well-mannered that we are to each other..... We have dealt with bad boys here and there, but the Powers that be, have a pretty good track record - - and I think that they have used the 'straighten up and fly right' solution several times in the last few years to either say bye-bye, or to welcome some back with open arms.... I just wish our people weren't so damn vocal and so visible - - I don't remember this uproar with the Eagles, nor the Jets.... I am wearing my colors proudly, but I think that the past couple of days has dropped the Steelers a few notches in the amount of respect we have always had... And this is not because we signed Vick - - it is because a bunch of people are acting like jerks....

If you don't want to be a Steelers fan, then bye-bye... No need to call attention to your actions by broadcasting them to the world.... Burn your shirts - - and don't expect to be welcomed back with open arms when we are heading to a February game this season and all the wagons are filled with band members who have been here through the whole season and through alot of the bad years..... In my 72 years, I do remember wearing Steelers colors when we had a few 0-12 seasons.... Not fun, but they are my team....

[GoSlash27]

I respect your stance Slash. And I wont try to talk you out of it. But I will tell you why I'm not with you on this. Because while what Vick did was reprehensible he did in fact pay his debt to society. He didn't try to pull a shady -Brady and out-maneuver or manipulate the system. He lost a lot. He probably paid a steeper price than anyone ever has for that particular crime. And afterwards he paid off all of his creditors in full. Unlike many who declare bankruptcy who end up paying as little as 10 cents on a dollar Vick paid his debts in full.

http://nypost.com/2014/12/17/michael-vick-close-to-paying-off-full-18m-debt-report/

Everything this man has done since getting out of jail speaks of someone who not only paid their debt to society but came out the other end a better person. I have no problem with the Steelers signing this man.

But again I respect your right to see it differently.

Zu,
Thanks. I appreciate that.
I totally get the attitude about him having paid his debt and worked to remake himself into a positive force, and I don't look down on anybody for having that sort of forgiveness in their heart.
But for me, it doesn't work that way. I wish him well and don't begrudge him making a living playing pro ball.... but no matter what he does or how hard he works, he will *never* be worthy to wear the Steelers uniform.
It's not just the nature of the crime itself (although it's pretty darn horrific), it's the fact that he's a convicted felon. I don't want the Steelers to be the sort of team that accepts those under any circumstance. AFAIC there are no second chances to be on this team. If you act like a knucklehead and go to prison, there are some things you just plain don't get to do after that. Being a Pittsburgh Steeler is one of them.

Sorry and thanks for the kind words!
-Slashy

[fansince'76]

Okay, I miss-understood what they meant by "The League", however I am sure the NFL cannot be happy about reopening this hornets nest of bad publicity for the NFL, with all the other things going on at this time.

The NFL has a much bigger mess on its hands at the moment. And if Brady gets his case thrown out, they may as well open the floodgates, because EVERYONE who gets suspended/fined by the NFL from there on out will wind up on appeal in federal court.

Besides, Vick is Goodell's "fair-haired boy":


"I do believe we need more success stories,'' Goodell said of Vick. "Too much of our society looks for people to fail. I'm not doing this because I felt sorry for Michael. I felt that because he'd been accountable, he had taken responsibility, and he wanted to make a positive difference. But he needed help getting there. That's why we did sort of a 'stage' return ... But Michael said to me, he said my number one goal is to make you proud and ... win that Super Bowl and be that MVP. We talk about that every once in a while. And it could happen. It would be a pretty cool moment.''

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2011/01/31/super-bowl-week

It also bears noting that Goodell said that right after completely trashing Roethlisberger during Super Bowl week back in 2011.

If the negative pub Vick (still) generates didn't matter to Goodell almost 5 years ago, it shouldn't matter now...

[zulater]

Zu,
Thanks. I appreciate that.
I totally get the attitude about him having paid his debt and worked to remake himself into a positive force, and I don't look down on anybody for having that sort of forgiveness in their heart.
But for me, it doesn't work that way. I wish him well and don't begrudge him making a living playing pro ball.... but no matter what he does or how hard he works, he will *never* be worthy to wear the Steelers uniform.
It's not just the nature of the crime itself (although it's pretty darn horrific), it's the fact that he's a convicted felon. I don't want the Steelers to be the sort of team that accepts those under any circumstance. AFAIC there are no second chances to be on this team. If you act like a knucklehead and go to prison, there are some things you just plain don't get to do after that. Being a Pittsburgh Steeler is one of them.

Sorry and thanks for the kind words!
-Slashy

Well when you put it that way I almost want to join you. But I wont. I'm weak. :lol: I'd be Jonesing for the Steelers within 5 days if I tried to make such a principled stand.

Seriously, what you laid out there I cant argue against. I admire your stand. :applaudit:

Sort of like Notre Dame, Stanford or the Military Academies in college you hold the Steelers to a higher standard than the rest of the pack. I like to as well. And while I can see where this violates your standards he slips in under mine because I think redemption is a valuable human commodity.
Anyway thank you for clarifying your stance. I do think there's a lot of opportunist's jumping on to the anti - Vick bandwagon. Just using him and the situation to draw attention to themselves or publicize their cause. But it's clear that you're not of that ilk. Your ideals are to be admired.

[ETL]

Yep - no way the Steelers should ever deal with convicted felons. Hell if Martha Stewart wanted to associated herself with this team - I would be totally against it and sell my season tickets because I would rather die than have a CONVICTED FELON - any Convicted Felon be associated with the Steelers.

Don't you know? My self worth is totally tied to the Steelers. If they have a blemish then I have a blemish. I just can't have that. I am suffering because people are looking down on me because my team is associated with a CONVICTED FELON.

I can't even stand it when one of the Steelers gets a finger injury that forms a ball of pus at the tip because those things are called FELONS also and it just comes too close to someone thinking there are felons on the Steelers.

Yep. No felons for me. Whatsoever. They might as well just crawl and die. Michael Vick and Martha Stewart - just do me a favor and kill yourselves because in my ideal world - you would be ostracized and made a pariah and excluded and discriminated against for the rest of your lives!!!

[hawaiiansteeler]

Yep - no way the Steelers should ever deal with convicted felons. Hell if Martha Stewart wanted to associated herself with this team - I would be totally against it and sell my season tickets because I would rather die than have a CONVICTED FELON - any Convicted Felon be associated with the Steelers.

Don't you know? My self worth is totally tied to the Steelers. If they have a blemish then I have a blemish. I just can't have that. I am suffering because people are looking down on me because my team is associated with a CONVICTED FELON.

I can't even stand it when one of the Steelers gets a finger injury that forms a ball of pus at the tip because those things are called FELONS also and it just comes too close to someone thinking there are felons on the Steelers.

Yep. No felons for me. Whatsoever. They might as well just crawl and die. Michael Vick and Martha Stewart - just do me a favor and kill yourselves because in my ideal world - you would be ostracized and made a pariah and excluded and discriminated against for the rest of your lives!!!

if Martha Stewart played for us our new team colors could be black and a lovely yellow saffron...

[86WARD]

if Martha Stewart played for us our new team colors could be black and a lovely yellow saffron...

I'd protest it.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I'd protest it.

maybe we'll just make Martha Stewart our equipment manager then.

she could show us how to get those nasty dirt stains out of our uniforms using only seltzer water and lemon juice....

[Butch]

Revisionist's history. Vick did NOT admit blame and take accountability. He pleaded innocent. Gave all kinds of excuses and tried to lie his way out of it. Now you are changing the story to Vick manning up and coming clean for this? Not until he was found guilty in court and served 18 months in prison. And like this lady said, anyone who could EVER do such heinous acts to dogs doesn't have the ability to actually, truly become sincerely enlightened. He just says the right stuff now and obviously won't go back to killing dogs at this point. He was coached up on what to do and how to act.

All that being said, I don't have a problem with the signing, personally. I am pretty sure he isn't going to start another dog fighting ring. But I respect the right of others to not forgive him. My bigger concern is that if he does play, he seems to get a concussion if someone breathes on him, and drops the ball if he is touched. But he is better than Jones..........but everyone is. Every back up I have seen play this preseason looks better than Jones. Even rookies. That is really bad.

I went back and checked and you are right about him not admitting guilt, so on that I stand corrected. He did however pay his debt, and as pointed out by others has, since being convicted, took ownership of his actions. As for the lady's accusations of him never being able to be completely enlightened that is an opinion and one that I personally don't share. It is easy for her to pass judgement, but again is she without sin and are her sins forgiven? If he was simply coached up and saying the "right" things then why did he pay back so much more of his debt than most or what was realistically expected? I like to think he was educated on the errors of his ways and chose to change his ways. At what point in time does he prove that he is a changed man and not simply a guy who was coached up?

As for your opinion of him as a backup QB that is something I can understand. It's not like the other choices were much better. Batch wasn't exactly lighting it up in Detroit, but when he came to us he held his own when we needed him to start. Yes he had injuries, but he did win a few games for us here and there. Hopefully the same will be said of Vic down the line, but we will see.

FWIW- Our last Super Bowl MVP who shined brightly when he was with us, faded into obscurity when he left us. The only reason I bring this up is because sometimes a player can play better or worse in a different environment/organization. I am hoping that Vic plays better with us.

[Butch]

I am pro-Vick signing... I don't like what he did - - but, he has already paid a huge price and faces consequences every day - - his earning power was destroyed, his reputation was shot, he served time, he has done an abundance of community service projects, and he ran the gauntlet to get back to playing ball - - a game he loves, and has an amount of skill playing... Granted, he probably would have problems finding a job just about anywhere else... The fact that he persevered, shows that he has a lot of qualities that we should accept gladly because they are Steelers qualities....

Steelers fans are unique - - when we have a bad game or a bad day, I absolutely hate coming in here because we are beating each other over the head and are asking for the heads of the coaches, the players and whoever doesn't meet the standard of the day.... We talk about fan bases from other teams getting down on us.... Hell, they are usually kinder and more well-mannered that we are to each other..... We have dealt with bad boys here and there, but the Powers that be, have a pretty good track record - - and I think that they have used the 'straighten up and fly right' solution several times in the last few years to either say bye-bye, or to welcome some back with open arms.... I just wish our people weren't so damn vocal and so visible - - I don't remember this uproar with the Eagles, nor the Jets.... I am wearing my colors proudly, but I think that the past couple of days has dropped the Steelers a few notches in the amount of respect we have always had... And this is not because we signed Vick - - it is because a bunch of people are acting like jerks....

If you don't want to be a Steelers fan, then bye-bye... No need to call attention to your actions by broadcasting them to the world.... Burn your shirts - - and don't expect to be welcomed back with open arms when we are heading to a February game this season and all the wagons are filled with band members who have been here through the whole season and through alot of the bad years..... In my 72 years, I do remember wearing Steelers colors when we had a few 0-12 seasons.... Not fun, but they are my team....

EXACTLY THIS!!! While I was not there before the 70's and they were the perennial losers, I agree with everything you wrote. I have been a loyal fan since. Excellent post.

[GBMelBlount]

I am pro-Vick signing... I don't like what he did - - but, he has already paid a huge price and faces consequences every day - - his earning power was destroyed, his reputation was shot, he served time, he has done an abundance of community service projects, and he ran the gauntlet to get back to playing ball - - a game he loves, and has an amount of skill playing... Granted, he probably would have problems finding a job just about anywhere else... The fact that he persevered, shows that he has a lot of qualities that we should accept gladly because they are Steelers qualities....

Steelers fans are unique - - when we have a bad game or a bad day, I absolutely hate coming in here because we are beating each other over the head and are asking for the heads of the coaches, the players and whoever doesn't meet the standard of the day.... We talk about fan bases from other teams getting down on us.... Hell, they are usually kinder and more well-mannered that we are to each other..... We have dealt with bad boys here and there, but the Powers that be, have a pretty good track record - - and I think that they have used the 'straighten up and fly right' solution several times in the last few years to either say bye-bye, or to welcome some back with open arms.... I just wish our people weren't so damn vocal and so visible - - I don't remember this uproar with the Eagles, nor the Jets.... I am wearing my colors proudly, but I think that the past couple of days has dropped the Steelers a few notches in the amount of respect we have always had... And this is not because we signed Vick - - it is because a bunch of people are acting like jerks....

If you don't want to be a Steelers fan, then bye-bye... No need to call attention to your actions by broadcasting them to the world.... Burn your shirts - - and don't expect to be welcomed back with open arms when we are heading to a February game this season and all the wagons are filled with band members who have been here through the whole season and through alot of the bad years..... In my 72 years, I do remember wearing Steelers colors when we had a few 0-12 seasons.... Not fun, but they are my team....

:applaudit:

[86WARD]

maybe we'll just make Martha Stewart our equipment manager then.

she could show us how to get those nasty dirt stains out of our uniforms using only seltzer water and lemon juice....

"Neat."

[86WARD]

FWIW- Our last Super Bowl MVP who shined brightly when he was with us, faded into obscurity when he left us. The only reason I bring this up is because sometimes a player can play better or worse in a different environment/organization. I am hoping that Vic plays better with us.

I'm kinda more hoping that Vick doesn't play with us....maybe in a 2-point package?

[CaSteel]

The Steelers are my team, I will watch the games,cheer like a lunatic and wear my Steeler gear but I will NOT accept Micheal Vicks "Apology". He is sorry he got caught not sorry he did those unspeakable things to a helpless animal. A person that does what he did to a living,breathing creature does not simply change the way they feel inside instead they find out what they need to do or say to get the pressure off of themselves.

[Count Steeler]

The Steelers are my team, I will watch the games,cheer like a lunatic and wear my Steeler gear but I will NOT accept Micheal Vicks "Apology". He is sorry he got caught not sorry he did those unspeakable things to a helpless animal. A person that does what he did to a living,breathing creature does not simply change the way they feel inside instead they find out what they need to do or say to get the pressure off of themselves.

I'm glad you have a truth detector and can figure out a person from a far. While he did not fess up right away, his actions since being in prison do not reflect an individual that is not truly contrite. He has almost paid off all his creditors, instead of choosing the easier, more common path of bankruptcy. He continues to this day helping out at humane societies and animal shelters.

And he can still toss the football.

[Pittsburgher]

Should I remind you of a certain #7 whom has embarrassed the Steelers franchise not once but twice in two seperate offseasons due to his own stupidity, but we still cheer for to this day?
Oh for the love of pete! This is trucks and you're talking sports car. Vick was charged, convicted, paid fines and did time and community service. #7, despite a ravenous NC prosecutor looking to find ANYTHING against him, could NOT even find enough to officially charge him! But go ahead and keep crucifying him for NOT COMMITTING a crime. :thumbdown:

[ALLD]

Vick looks like an excellent pick up at this point.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Vick looks like an excellent pick up at this point.

I think all Pittsburgh Steelers fans can at least agree on one thing:

we'll all feel better about Michael Vick coming into the game if something happens to Ben than if Landry Jones trotted out there...

[TD's & Beer]

Vick looks like an excellent pick up at this point.

He has a helluva arm, that's for sure - the way he flicks a 60 yarder like it's nothing

[Craic]

Zu,
Thanks. I appreciate that.
I totally get the attitude about him having paid his debt and worked to remake himself into a positive force, and I don't look down on anybody for having that sort of forgiveness in their heart.
But for me, it doesn't work that way. I wish him well and don't begrudge him making a living playing pro ball.... but no matter what he does or how hard he works, he will *never* be worthy to wear the Steelers uniform.
It's not just the nature of the crime itself (although it's pretty darn horrific), it's the fact that he's a convicted felon. I don't want the Steelers to be the sort of team that accepts those under any circumstance. AFAIC there are no second chances to be on this team. If you act like a knucklehead and go to prison, there are some things you just plain don't get to do after that. Being a Pittsburgh Steeler is one of them.

Sorry and thanks for the kind words!
-Slashy

I can respect your stand, especially since it isn't about Vick but rather, about what it means to be a Steeler (and in that sense, you show a sincerity in allowing a man to redeem himself).

I do disagree with you, however. I think part of being a great team with great character is taking a player who had a bad past but paid his debts and has stayed clean, and showing grace to him. Note how we stayed away from him for years until we knew he could stay clean. I think that's a vitally important point. I also believe it important to note the Steelers' position is not "You cannot be a felon and play on this team" but rather, "You cannot have a bad reputation for stupidity, or do stupid things and stay on this team." Vick no longer has a bad reputation (the current Vick—everyone agrees he's staying clean of trouble), that's why I'm okay with the signing.


Oh for the love of pete! This is trucks and you're talking sports car. Vick was charged, convicted, paid fines and did time and community service. #7, despite a ravenous NC prosecutor looking to find ANYTHING against him, could NOT even find enough to officially charge him! But go ahead and keep crucifying him for NOT COMMITTING a crime. :thumbdown:

Oh for the Love of Pete. You misread his post and reacted. @Edman said "Embarrassed" the team twice, that Ben put himself in those situations. No one can argue that putting yourself in a situation, twice, where you can be accused of rape is a good thing. The discussion is about what it takes to be a Steelers player, and that is based, at least here, on what we perceive as reputation. The comparison is very fair on that front, as they both drew a ton of negative press and perceptions for whatever actions they committed.

[HollywoodSteel]

Slash, I also respect that you have a moral code and stand by it. I won't try to talk you out of your decision, I just want to point out something you might not have thought about much, and it has nothing to do with Vick and is horrific crimes. It's more about nostalgia clouding reality:

A player from the golden age of Art's angelic Steelers (Ernie Holmes) shot at a police helicopter. Think about that for a second. He was actually trying to hit it with absolutely NO REGARD FOR INNOCENT HUMAN LIFE. What if he'd hit it? What if that helicopter crashed on more people?

Is that not the type of thing that crosses your line? And how did Art respond? Did he cut the player that day and work hard to see that he goes to prison? No. Holmes got five years probation, rather than the years in prison you or I would have gotten for the same act. Could it be because Art, and the NFL, had a hand in it? Could it be that NFL franchises protected their own interests over some silly moral line like attempted murder. Could it be that Art was a better man than most, but also served his own interests, sometimes on the bad side of your own moral line, that if crossed would morally compel you to walk away from your fandom?

That's just one example that you know happened. I've heard stories about other things that would most definitely cross your line of tolerance (and I'd be crossing my own moral line to discuss anything I've ever been told in confidence). But if your conscious is troubled by doubt, you should go drinking with Terry Bradshaw or any other of the untarnished by sin Steelers of that golden age and see how much they'll tell you. If your moral code doesn't compel you to work too hard at investigating that, then watch the movie North Dallas 40. It was more or less about the Cowboys of the 70s, and it was a pretty tame window into the general depravity and 'get away with anything' attitude of players on EVERY NFL TEAM of that era. That includes the players on a certain team that partied HARD in New Orleans right before the Super Bowl (that they won anyway).

I'm not trying to mess with your memories, and if you NEED to believe that the Steelers were the one pure team in an era where the public had almost no knowledge of what really went on with players' personal lives, then by all means, hold tight to those memories and belief that "Art would never tolerate..." But the Steelers of that era were not great because of moral fiber. They were great because of great (and probably some lucky) drafting combined with great coaching. The Steelers practiced harder and better than most of their rivals, and that was all Chuck Noll.

The real difference between the glorious bygone era and today is that every nugget of information about a player's personal life wasn't all over the internet back then. You were told what the franchise wanted you to know and no more. Reporters back then wouldn't print half the things they really knew about because they were part of that understood code of silence. So if you think about it, chances are that the Steelers players back then, who knew they could get away with almost anything, were, on net, a much worse bunch of moral line crossers than the players today who can't keep anything secret.

Like I said, I'm not trying to win an argument or call you a hypocrite. Personally, I try to mostly to separate the entertainment provided by the entertainers that enrich my life with their personal deeds or politics. I'm sure there could be exceptions. I can't promise to commit to that stance, but I figure why should I have to give up any kind enjoyment because of entertainers that are moral scum. That would just add me as another victim of their scumminess. I did nothing wrong, so why should I have to give anything up because of them?

I too hold on to some hate for Michael Vick as a person when I think about what he did, even though I probably should allow for redemption and reward that when it seems to happen. I'm not sure. But I have no problem rooting for a Steelers QB while he's in the uniform, hopefully helping all the Steelers I don't hate win games (but I hope it never comes to Vick actually having to play QB for us except in certain packages and at the end of a blowout).

I understand that it is kind of arbitrary to root for a uniform basically (as Jerry Seinfeld says), but it's fun to root for the same team every year, rather than the most moral team at the time. I am sad to see you go and be another of Michael Vick's victims by having to walk away from your fandom, but I understand it. I'm only trying to present a different point of view: that the past isn't as shiny and pure as it is in your fond memories. I still respect any decision you make after considering everything.

[dduc996]

Oh the things revealed if OUR lives were on displayed for all the world to see.


Matthew 6:14-15 (KJV)
14. For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Oh the things revealed if OUR lives were on displayed for all the world to see.


Matthew 6:14-15 (KJV)
14. For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

A very fitting scripture.

[GoSlash27]

I understand that it is kind of arbitrary to root for a uniform basically (as Jerry Seinfeld says), but it's fun to root for the same team every year, rather than the most moral team at the time. I am sad to see you go and be another of Michael Vick's victims by having to walk away from your fandom, but I understand it. I'm only trying to present a different point of view: that the past isn't as shiny and pure as it is in your fond memories. I still respect any decision you make after considering everything.

Hollywood,
Thanks for the kind words. Just to be clear, I'm not "going" anywhere. I'm still a die- hard Steelers fan and always will be. I just won't be watching/ attending the games or buying/ displaying swag until Vick is gone. I won't be following or rooting for opposing teams in the meantime. You don't have to worry about losing me to the Ravens or anything silly like that. I'll just find other ways to occupy myself on Sundays until Vick is no longer in a Steelers uniform. Next Sunday after that I'm back with a vengeance.

Best,
-Slashy

[TeeTee]

Yep - no way the Steelers should ever deal with convicted felons. Hell if Martha Stewart wanted to associated herself with this team - I would be totally against it and sell my season tickets because I would rather die than have a CONVICTED FELON - any Convicted Felon be associated with the Steelers.

Don't you know? My self worth is totally tied to the Steelers. If they have a blemish then I have a blemish. I just can't have that. I am suffering because people are looking down on me because my team is associated with a CONVICTED FELON.

I can't even stand it when one of the Steelers gets a finger injury that forms a ball of pus at the tip because those things are called FELONS also and it just comes too close to someone thinking there are felons on the Steelers.

Yep. No felons for me. Whatsoever. They might as well just crawl and die. Michael Vick and Martha Stewart - just do me a favor and kill yourselves because in my ideal world - you would be ostracized and made a pariah and excluded and discriminated against for the rest of your lives!!!

I am pretty sure sarcasm has been applied here. Genius avatar ETL.

[TeeTee]

Oh the things revealed if OUR lives were on displayed for all the world to see.


Matthew 6:14-15 (KJV)
14. For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

If we are going to start defending this with bible quotes...well....let's try these.



She lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. Ezekiel 23:20 NIV



Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19
​
When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

[dduc996]

Romans 5:8 (KJV)
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

[dduc996]

If we are going to start defending this with bible quotes...well....let's try these.



She lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. Ezekiel 23:20 NIV



Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19
​
When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

Haters always refer to the Old Testament to justify there hate. [emoji813]
Learn it before you use it. Lol [emoji813]

[dduc996]

Back on subject....or better yet....how many years ago was Vick convicted ? And he's still paying for it outside the judicial system...?
Examine our hearts.

[teegre]

Ezekiel 25:17

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

[fansince'76]

Ezekiel 25:17

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

Now I been sayin' that shit for years...and if you heard it, that meant your ass... :chuckle:

[teegre]

Now I been sayin' that shit for years...and if you heard it, that meant your ass... :chuckle:

It could mean you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish.

I'd like that... but, that shit ain't the truth.

The truth is, you're the weak, and I am the tyranny of evil men.

[Pittsburgher]

Oh for the Love of Pete. You misread his post and reacted. @Edman said "Embarrassed" the team twice, that Ben put himself in those situations. No one can argue that putting yourself in a situation, twice, where you can be accused of rape is a good thing. The discussion is about what it takes to be a Steelers player, and that is based, at least here, on what we perceive as reputation. The comparison is very fair on that front, as they both drew a ton of negative press and perceptions for whatever actions they committed.
I respectfully disagree that the comparison is NOT the same. As far as players "embarrassing" their teams, there's too many to count out there, even the Steelers. (latest: http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/23818-NFL-has-upheld-the-four-game-suspension-for-Martavis-Bryant-Four-games-without-pay)

Vick just didn't embarrass his team, Vick was charged and sentenced and did time. Trucks and cars, trucks and cars my friend, and if you don't agree with that, start the litany of names of Steelers who have embarrassed our team along with #7 and compare them to Vick as well.

As for me, he paid his dues and we need Vick. Its a year. Hopefully we won't need him and Ben will stay healthy.

[HollywoodSteel]

It could mean you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish.

I'd like that... but, that shit ain't the truth.

The truth is, you're the weak, and I am the tyranny of evil men.

But I'm trying, Ringo...

[HollywoodSteel]

I respectfully disagree that the comparison is NOT the same. As far as players "embarrassing" their teams, there's too many to count out there, even the Steelers. (latest: http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/23818-NFL-has-upheld-the-four-game-suspension-for-Martavis-Bryant-Four-games-without-pay)

Vick just didn't embarrass his team, Vick was charged and sentenced and did time. Trucks and cars, trucks and cars my friend, and if you don't agree with that, start the litany of names of Steelers who have embarrassed our team along with #7 and compare them to Vick as well.

As for me, he paid his dues and we need Vick. Its a year. Hopefully we won't need him and Ben will stay healthy.

I'm pretty sure Craic was simply addressing the poster who misinterpreted the EDMAN post. And I share Craic's interpretation. And you're not wrong either about the differences between Ben's actions and Vick's, Pittsburgher. I don't think Craic was denying those differences. He said that the comparison is apt in a very specific context (negative press, perception by the public as being near the top of the list as "most hated players in sports" and that kind of thing).

Now that I clarified the context of Craic's comments, maybe someone else will be nice enough to clarify mine. :)

[hawaiiansteeler]

Now that I clarified the context of Craic's comments, maybe someone else will be nice enough to clarify mine. :)

having re-read your post a couple of times, I think you said the following:

1) Landry Jones clearly should start over Ben.
2) Jarvis Jones will get double-digit sacks this year.
3) we're going to shut out the Patriots* in the season opener.
4) Tomlin is an overpaid janitor who only was hired because of the Rooney Rule.
5) Haley's an ex-golf coach who only got the job because of who his Daddy is.
6) FIRE Butler!
7) Cam Thomas is our best defensive lineman.
8) Heath Miller is obviously the only who supplies Martavis Bryant with his weed.
9) you like the job Roger Goodell has been doing.
10) and finally, you challenged James Harrison to a fistfight.

that pretty much summarizes it, don't you think? :wink02:

[Cyphon25]

I guess I should get my full thoughts on paper about this whole thing:


About boycotting/protesting

I don't really understand this in almost any form because it rarely ever accomplishes anything but I especially don't understand it in regards to the Steelers. We have had players do dumb shit in our past and people like to act like we are the golden team of the NFL (when really we are the black and golden team of the NFL :) ). Anyway, he is a backup qb that is likely to never see the field so why should that interfere with anyones joy of the game? Would Vick make it any less fun to watch Antonio Brown kick a punter in the face? Would Vick make it any less fun to watch Ben lead a game winning drive? Hell no. So there is no point to this. I will never really get it.

About dog fighting/past

I own a German Shepherd and love the dog more than most people I know. If anyone harmed him I would hunt them down and shoot them. That isn't a boast, just a fact. I own guns and would do everything in my power to destroy them. That being said, I think what Vick did has to come from a very dark and degraded place in a human being. It isn't an accident or mistake. It is a thing of psychos and serial killers. I believe it is pretty common knowledge that serial killers often have a past of torturing animals and what not. So while in some ways I can forgive what Vick has done and accept that he is trying to be a better person, I am not really sure there is any true forgiveness for doing something so despicable. Especially considering he did it as a fully functioning adult in society. He isn't insane, mentally retarded, fallen on hard times etc...There is more or less not a single more loyal thing around than a dog is to it's owner. So to take that trust and destroy it is essentially as bad as crimes against children.

Anyway I am rambling a bit. Point is, I am not sure I can fully buy that he is truly a better person because it doesn't seem like a trait you simply move past. However, that is kind of irrelevant since actions speak louder than thoughts or words. So long as he isn't fighting dogs and is at least on the outside doing everything right who does it hurt?

About him as a player

I think I said it already but he is basically the best option of a bad group. I have never considered Vick more than an average QB. He has one of the best arms in the NFL and is still one of the most athletic QB's but he is injury prone and turnover prone and you don't want that at QB. Especially when they are your last hope before Landry Jones sees the field. So even if he is the best option talent wise, I would almost rather someone a little less talented but maybe a little safer with the ball. Not sure if there is someone on the available list but there you have it.

[tube517]

having re-read your post a couple of times, I think you said the following:

1) Landry Jones clearly should start over Ben Tate.
2) Jarvis Jones will get double-digit hurries this year.
3) we're going to shut out the Patriots* in the season opener.
4) Tomlin is an overpaid sidelinestepping janitor who only was hired because of the HocusPocus Rule.
5) Haley's an ex-golf coach/furniture vandalizer and only got the job because of who his Daddy is.
6) FIRE Butler!
7) Cam Thomas is our best defensive lineman with a dirty winkie.
8) Heath Miller is obviously the only who supplies Martavis Bryant with his weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.
9) you like the job Roger Goodell has been doing.
10) and finally, you challenged James Harrison to a fistfight for a participation medal.

that pretty much summarizes it, don't you think? :wink02:

Fixed.

[GBMelBlount]

Vick looks like an excellent pick up at this point.

Absolutely.

Love the pick.

I'll let God and the self righteous, vindictive, hyper opinionated and hateful know it alls sort out the rest.

[TD's & Beer]

yes - good Lord, get over it

He's our back-up QB. Period.

Go Steelers...may we never have to use him


Can I get an Amen?

[hawaiiansteeler]

yes - good Lord, get over it

He's our back-up QB. Period.

Go Steelers...may we never have to use him


Can I get an Amen?

https://media.giphy.com/media/J5jmQF8IwNS6Y/giphy.gif

[teegre]

But I'm trying, Ringo...

Yo, Mista Carter, we should, you know, we should like go.

That's a good idea... and, why do you keep calling me that!?!

[HollywoodSteel]

having re-read your post a couple of times, I think you said the following:

1) Landry Jones clearly should start over Ben.
2) Jarvis Jones will get double-digit sacks this year.
3) we're going to shut out the Patriots* in the season opener.
4) Tomlin is an overpaid janitor who only was hired because of the Rooney Rule.
5) Haley's an ex-golf coach who only got the job because of who his Daddy is.
6) FIRE Butler!
7) Cam Thomas is our best defensive lineman.
8) Heath Miller is obviously the only who supplies Martavis Bryant with his weed.
9) you like the job Roger Goodell has been doing.
10) and finally, you challenged James Harrison to a fistfight.

that pretty much summarizes it, don't you think? :wink02:

You're way off. I challenged James Harrison to a squat-press contest AND THEN the fist fight. How was that not clear in my last post? Spot on with the rest of your list though. You should work at the U.N. as an interpreter. Then after you cause WW III, we could go get a couple beers that weren't too radioactive and discuss it all. :)

- - - Updated - - -


It could mean you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish.

I'd like that... but, that shit ain't the truth.

The truth is, you're the weak, and I am the tyranny of evil men.


If you give him your wallet, I'm shooting them on general principle.

Vince, shut the %$#@ up!

[ALLD]

Vick protesters need to get over themselves. I got dogs next door that bark like wild banshees on Sunday mornings. If I could get away with it they would disappear.

[TeeTee]

Haters always refer to the Old Testament to justify there hate. [emoji813]
Learn it before you use it. Lol [emoji813]

You either believe in the bible or you don't. You can't pick and choose what you think are truths and disregard the rest. If the bible is the "word of God" then it must all be. You can't be all "Oh, that's the Old Testament, that doesn't count." That is intellectually dishonest and what you would call cheating.

- - - Updated - - -


Vick protesters need to get over themselves. I got dogs next door that bark like wild banshees on Sunday mornings. If I could get away with it they would disappear.

So which Vick method would you use? Would you electrocute them, hang them or drown them?

[ALLD]

You forgot about going full jihad and chopping their heads off.

[vader29]

Vick protesters need to get over themselves. I got dogs next door that bark like wild banshees on Sunday mornings. If I could get away with it they would disappear.

You could always call a guy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrKaioiM1jE

:chuckle:

[teegre]

If you give him your wallet, I'm shooting them on general principle.

Vince, shut the %$#@ up!

You're the one that I want; you are the one girl... woo-woo-woo!!!

Oh wait... wrong movie.

[hawaiiansteeler]

You forgot about going full jihad and chopping their heads off.

then afterwards call Winston the Wolf...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDtmf10aBL8

[tube517]

then afterwards call Winston the Wolf...



Or Viktor the "Cleaner" :lol: (I know it's a Pulp Fiction theme in this thread but same actor, same type of cleanup guy and Bridget Fonda was in Jackie Brown!) :lol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf-Amvro2SY

[86WARD]

I think some fans should start a protest that the Steelers are keeping Landry Jones on the roster. It's just as legit...

[vindrow]

I think some fans should start a protest that the Steelers are keeping Landry Jones on the roster. It's just as legit...

I would be on the front lines with this one.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I think some fans should start a protest that the Steelers are keeping Landry Jones on the roster. It's just as legit...

Landry Jones may play like a dog, but he hasn't killed any...

[fansince'76]

You could always call a guy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrKaioiM1jE

:chuckle:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMi7zrrvqEw

:chuckle:

[86WARD]

Landry Jones may play like a dog, but he hasn't killed any...

Have you watched his play? It's debatable...lol.

[HollywoodSteel]

Have you watched his play? It's debatable...lol.

I'm not sure if killing a dog on the practice field sideline, when he's actually trying to hit a wide open AB, tells us much about him that we didn't already know.

I'm pretty sure Vick mostly killed dogs on purpose. But given how he used to throw when he was on the Falcons, I wouldn't be too shocked if Vick killed a couple by accident too. He did have a really strong throwing arm with inconsistent aim. That might have made it reckless endangerment or something.

[HollywoodSteel]

I think some fans should start a protest that the Steelers are keeping Landry Jones on the roster. It's just as legit...

I think that poses an interesting question. Aside from our one fan here who has moral principles, like for real, would any of you guys take Jones over Vick as our #2? At this point I think I'd take Charles Manson over Landry Jones.

- - - Updated - - -

There are also some mass shooters in custody who have proven that they have better aim than Landry Jones. (I know, bad taste. But I can't resist the low hanging fruit even if it's rotten fruit)

[hawaiiansteeler]

At this point I think I'd take Charles Manson over Landry Jones.



if Charles Manson played for the Steelers, in order to get the crowd pumped up we could play "Helter Skelter" instead of "Renegade"...

[GoSlash27]

There are also some mass shooters in custody who have proven that they have better aim than Landry Jones. (I know, bad taste. But I can't resist the low hanging fruit even if it's rotten fruit)

Bad taste, hell! That's funny :D

-Slashy

[fansince'76]

if Charles Manson played for the Steelers, in order to get the crowd pumped up we could play "Helter Skelter" instead of "Renegade"...

Speaking of which, am I the only one who sees the irony of people getting all wrapped up in whatever a degenerate like Snoop Dogg has to say about the Steelers, just because he's a celebrity?

If I never have to see another news article about that clown pontificating about Haley or anything else related to the Steelers, or someone creaming themselves because they spotted him somewhere wearing a Steelers jacket or whatever, it will be too soon.

[SteelFever]

I think that poses an interesting question. Aside from our one fan here who has moral principles, like for real, would any of you guys take Jones over Vick as our #2? At this point I think I'd take Charles Manson over Landry Jones.

- - - Updated - - -

There are also some mass shooters in custody who have proven that they have better aim than Landry Jones. (I know, bad taste. But I can't resist the low hanging fruit even if it's rotten fruit)

Did you watch the Carolina debacle? Vick and Landry each played a half, Vick through for 24 yards, Landry for 147 and went 9/11. I wanted Landry gone also but he has been improving and so far has outplayed the dog torturer. The only points scored were when Landry Jones was playing. I would take Landry Jones over Vick any day, if we end up needing to use our back up quarterback because of injury to Ben, the season would be a total loss anyway.

[Cyphon25]

Bills cut Matt Cassel. We should cut Vick and try and get him in.

[86WARD]

Vick >>> Cassel.

[Cyphon25]

Vick >>> Cassel.


Cassel > Vick. Especially with our roster. The thing is Vick is just as likely to lose the game for you as he is to win it. Cassel is a safe game manager which would fit perfect with our weapons. Get them ball to them and let them win it. Vick is injury prone and mistake prone. I would take Cassel in a heartbeat over Vick even if it cost a little more.

That being said, hopefully we don't ever see any of them take a snap for us.

[Mojouw]

In what world is Cassel better than Vick? He couldn't make a roster over Tyrod Taylor and EJ Manuel.

Vick has enormous flaws in his game, but Cassel basically has no game.

[Cyphon25]

In what world is Cassel better than Vick?

Read my post. I thought it was explained well enough. He is better for our purposes. You don't want to risk Vick costing you a game with the tools we have. That is assuming he even stays healthy.


Vick has enormous flaws in his game, but Cassel basically has no game.

Cassels game is safety which is what you want in a backup QB. You want someone who can manage and won't cost you. It is what we had with Batch and it worked out well enough. It would be even better now given the guys we have for a "manager" to get the ball to.

[Mojouw]

Read my post. I thought it was explained well enough. He is better for our purposes. You don't want to risk Vick costing you a game with the tools we have. That is assuming he even stays healthy.



Cassels game is safety which is what you want in a backup QB. You want someone who can manage and won't cost you. It is what we had with Batch and it worked out well enough. It would be even better now given the guys we have for a "manager" to get the ball to.

Cassel can't get the ball down the field anymore. Remember at the end when Batch couldn't even throw past 3-4 yards? It was awful. The current Steelers offense has its strength in multiple receiver threats and getting the ball down the field. Vick makes mistakes. Vick will turn the ball over. But Vick can and will get the ball down the field.

Can Cassel win you a game? Maybe. Can he win you two? No way. Can Vick win you more than one game? Yes. Can he lose you a game as well? Of course.

Personally, I would still be bringing in QBs. Josh Freeman is cut loose - can he still play? I would want to find out. There are some other younger guys out there that may be worth a look see - but Matt Cassel is not among them.

[polamalubeast]

Vick >>> Cassel.

Agree!

[Cyphon25]

Can Cassel win you a game? Maybe. Can he win you two? No way. Can Vick win you more than one game? Yes. Can he lose you a game as well? Of course.

I guess it is just a philosophy difference. With our skill positions I want a guy who isn't going to cost you. You throw it 3 yards to AB or Bell and they run for 40 so why does Cassel need to get the ball downfield? That is what I am getting at. When you are limited on weapons you need a guy like Vick to try to make something happen. When you have our weapons you don't want a guy like Vick blowing it for you.

Cassel won't be doing anything to win games but the point is he wouldn't need to.

Doesn't matter anyway, Steelers would never make the move. Just think it is an interesting discussion.

[polamalubeast]

Cassel won't be doing anything to win games but the point is he wouldn't need to.


With this defense,you need a QB who try to win the games....

[Cyphon25]

With this defense,you need a QB who try to win the games....

True in some cases. But you can still win playing the TOP game as well.

I still think that is how we should play the Patriots this week.

[86WARD]

I'd definitely sign Cassel but he would be behind Vick and he probably wouldn't accept the salary I would offer. I'd also do the same with Matt Flynn and a bunch of others over Jones. If Ben and/or Vick got injured, then I would consider going hard after a guy like Cassel just based on his starting experience. I just don't want to go into a game with Landry Jones as a QB. But Cassel who had a 5.5 pass average in the preseason wouldn't be my guy over Vick. Vick can still get the ball down field to Bryant and Wheaton. Cassel can't do that, so you're pretty much eliminating Bryant from the offense with Cassel's "arm."

[Mojouw]

I guess it is just a philosophy difference. With our skill positions I want a guy who isn't going to cost you. You throw it 3 yards to AB or Bell and they run for 40 so why does Cassel need to get the ball downfield? That is what I am getting at. When you are limited on weapons you need a guy like Vick to try to make something happen. When you have our weapons you don't want a guy like Vick blowing it for you.

Cassel won't be doing anything to win games but the point is he wouldn't need to.

Doesn't matter anyway, Steelers would never make the move. Just think it is an interesting discussion.

I can see that. It is likely my own personal bias coloring my opinion. I will always favor the QB with the big arm and the mentality to hit the deep ball. Guess that doesn't always mean that is actually the better QB.

Cassel just seems like he is done to me though.

[polamalubeast]

Cassell was lucky to not have a pick 6 in the preseason against the steelers.....

[SteelerFanInStl]

Cassel sucks. He's had zero success outside of the Pats. I'll take Vick any day over him.

[GoSlash27]

Bills cut Matt Cassel. We should cut Vick and try and get him in.

I would be down with that for purely selfish reasons; I can end my boycott and watch my Steelers again :D
Best,
-Slashy

[TeeTee]

It's all moot at this point. Vick is in, had reps, played in some games. The Steelers are not going to make herky jerky move at this point.

[Godfather]

Cassel had a better completion percentage last year (57.7-52.9) and a better average (6.0 yards to 5.0) than Vick.

[touchdownward]

At the risk of sounding cliché, Vick did the crime, did his time but has kept his nose clean since then. I have no problem with him being on my favorite team. But to each his or her own, I have no hard feelings towards any fan that choses to not follow the Steelers due to Vick.

[Cyphon25]

Not gonna lie, if Ben goes down the season is lost anyway and Vick is WAY more fun to watch than Matt Cassel. So it isn't like I feel strongly about what I was saying. But if I really thought we could keep winning I would go with Cassel for the reasons I listed.

[Craic]

Not gonna lie, if Ben goes down the season is lost anyway and Vick is WAY more fun to watch than Matt Cassel. So it isn't like I feel strongly about what I was saying. But if I really thought we could keep winning I would go with Cassel for the reasons I listed.

I don't agree with this.

We have enough tools on offense that if Ben goes down, we can still get it done offensively. Vick is the better choice in this sense because he is more like Ben than Cassel. What do I mean? This offense has been, and is built on the premise that our QB can extend the play at any time, and that he's a gambler when he does. Vick fits that mold. Sure, he doesn't have the legs he used to, but he still has the instincts and the arm to extend plays and then get the ball downfield. It won't be as jaw-dropping as Ben's plays, and it'll open us up to more INTs, but coming in with a game manager handcuffs this offense too much, making it almost impossible to win with one. The tools do not fit a game manager.

[Cyphon25]

I don't agree with this.

We have enough tools on offense that if Ben goes down, we can still get it done offensively. Vick is the better choice in this sense because he is more like Ben than Cassel. What do I mean? This offense has been, and is built on the premise that our QB can extend the play at any time, and that he's a gambler when he does. Vick fits that mold. Sure, he doesn't have the legs he used to, but he still has the instincts and the arm to extend plays and then get the ball downfield. It won't be as jaw-dropping as Ben's plays, and it'll open us up to more INTs, but coming in with a game manager handcuffs this offense too much, making it almost impossible to win with one. The tools do not fit a game manager.

Again, I see it is as the exact opposite. With the tools we have we don't need a QB risking mistakes. With Ben it isn't much of a risk because he is great at it and accurate with the ball. Ben moves well but moves slow and thoughtful. Vick is too skittish on the move and doesn't have the accuracy Ben does which risks more INT's. On top of that he has never been great at protecting the ball from fumbles so the more he moves the bigger chance of that as well.

Our tools are perfect for a game manager because they can do things with the ball in their hands. So all we need from a QB is to get the ball to them and let them make shit happen. I don't know how you can really argue otherwise. We see them do it lol. The difference with Ben is that he takes those tools and can elevate them further so the argument doesn't really hold with him. Vick can't elevate them so it is better to have less risk and go with someone like Cassel.

And on top of it all like I said, injury is big worry with Vick as well.

[HollywoodSteel]

Again, I see it is as the exact opposite. With the tools we have we don't need a QB risking mistakes. With Ben it isn't much of a risk because he is great at it and accurate with the ball. Ben moves well but moves slow and thoughtful. Vick is too skittish on the move and doesn't have the accuracy Ben does which risks more INT's. On top of that he has never been great at protecting the ball from fumbles so the more he moves the bigger chance of that as well.

Our tools are perfect for a game manager because they can do things with the ball in their hands. So all we need from a QB is to get the ball to them and let them make shit happen. I don't know how you can really argue otherwise. We see them do it lol. The difference with Ben is that he takes those tools and can elevate them further so the argument doesn't really hold with him. Vick can't elevate them so it is better to have less risk and go with someone like Cassel.

And on top of it all like I said, injury is big worry with Vick as well.

Cyphon, here is the thing you might be overlooking: We have the offensive tools to score a lot of points BECAUSE we have a QB who can utilize any tool, in any way, at any time. If a QB like Cassel is in there, doing exactly what you want, then chances are the opposing D will figure that out and will expect more runs and more dump offs. If they don't have to worry about getting beat deep at the same time, a D can manage that offense. Cassel will not score 30 plus points a game with that strategy, which is what we'll need in most games to win. Even if Vick isn't as good as he used to be (and is nowhere near as good as Big Ben) his diversity of POTENTIAL assets needs to be taken into account by the D, so they can't just key on the runs and quick dump offs. They still need to account for the receiver (or two) going deep, because even if Vick isn't as accurate as Ben, he'll at least try to make the throw once in a while, and the D will not want be embarrassed when he does. Thus they have to spread thin, making our running and dump off game WAY more effective. Plus Vick just needs to make one decent run (hopefully into a slide or to the sidelines) for the D to be forced to account for that too. Vick can win a game without ever making a deep risky throw because the D can't ignore the possibility. And if he does get Bryant one on one, let him throw it deep and see who comes down with it. I'll take my chances on Bryant, one on one with the rest of the defense worried about the short game. It's either a TD or the equivalent of a punt (given the distance Vick will throw it).

I'd be fine with a game manager if we had a great defense and could win low scoring games, but we can't do that anymore. We need a QB who can spread a defense out, allowing him to potentially use any of our weapons.

[HollywoodSteel]

Plus, I don't think Vick will be as injury prone with an O line that can give him a few seconds to find someone open or throw it away. He doesn't need to run very much to win games. If he can do what he is told (and I believe he's mature enough now to do that) he can greatly reduce the chances of injury.

One thing I noticed in the preseason was that he was at least smart enough to realize it was the preseason. He ran and slid about a yard or two short of the first down when he probably could have gone all out and picked up the first down (risking injury doing so). I know it isn't some great accomplishment to understand that no first down is worth the risk in preseason, but at least it shows some self awareness rather than his blind instinct automatically taking over when the adrenaline is pumping. It might be a sign that he can keep specific instructions about playing it safe in his head while running a play.

[steelreserve]

Cassel > Vick. Especially with our roster. The thing is Vick is just as likely to lose the game for you as he is to win it. Cassel is a safe game manager which would fit perfect with our weapons. Get them ball to them and let them win it. Vick is injury prone and mistake prone. I would take Cassel in a heartbeat over Vick even if it cost a little more.


Yeah no. Cassel will sure as hell lose a game for you. Unlike Vick, he can't win one for you. He's just as mistake-prone as Vick; just different mistakes that have more to do with his overall shortcomings as a quarterback. Cassel sucks.



I would be down with that for purely selfish reasons; I can end my boycott and watch my Steelers again :D
Best,
-Slashy


You can really do that any time, you know. You made your point; it's not going to affect what the team does and it's already established that there aren't enough other people joining you to make that happen; and the hell of it is, the guy probably isn't even going to be on the field. So really, it comes down to whether YOU would like to watch the team or not, and it sounds like you do, so at this point all you are doing is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Quit hurting yourself.

[Butch]

Cassel was so over rated when he played for n.e. and was exposed by the Steelers that year. I still remember all the media types falling over themselves to praise him. He hasn't done a damn thing to show he's even above average, I'll take Vick over Cassel all day long.

[HollywoodSteel]

Cassel was so over rated when he played for n.e. and was exposed by the Steelers that year. I still remember all the media types falling over themselves to praise him. He hasn't done a damn thing to show he's even above average, I'll take Vick over Cassel all day long.

Too bad we couldn't "expose him" in an outdoor game in London when he was playing for a worse team than the Patriots he had supporting him back then. But just because he can beat us doesn't mean he's any good.

[HollywoodSteel]

By the way, I'm in the Vick > than Cassel camp, but I'm pretty sure that if Cassel had been available before Vick, we would have taken Cassel and NOT cut him to grab Vick at this point. It probably would not have seemed worth the headache if we already had a #2 practicing with the team.

But at this point, Vick is better for us than Cassel. He's ready to suit up in game one for us and step in if necessary, even for a series, if Ben gets dinged up or something.

[Butch]

Too bad we couldn't "expose him" in an outdoor game in London when he was playing for a worse team than the Patriots he had supporting him back then. But just because he can beat us doesn't mean he's any good.

Yes it is too bad but that was not my point, we have made a lot of subpar QBs look good including those who play in Oakland. My point is that Cassel is over rated and I will take Vick any day over him.

[steelreserve]

Too bad we couldn't "expose him" in an outdoor game in London when he was playing for a worse team than the Patriots he had supporting him back then. But just because he can beat us doesn't mean he's any good.


JaMarcus Russell backing up Ryan Leaf would've carved up our defense in that game. That was the most unprepared I've seen us look to start a season since ... well, since at LEAST the season before.

[polamalubeast]

Too bad we couldn't "expose him" in an outdoor game in London when he was playing for a worse team than the Patriots he had supporting him back then. But just because he can beat us doesn't mean he's any good.

The steelers was a awful team at this time(The steelers had start a 0-4 start in 2013 and they had finish the 2012 season with a 2-5 record....)

[HollywoodSteel]

I agree with all who have responded to my comment about "not exposing Cassel" in that Vikings game in London. That game speaks more to our own failings and not to Cassel's abilities. I agree that Cassel has always been overrated due to his success with New England that one season. He should be a #2 somewhere, but that's about all he'll ever be from now on in my opinion.

I still think (personal feelings and bad PR aside) we are much better off with Vick than Cassel. Vick doesn't have to be a world beater to spread out a defense with the tools on this offense, he just needs defenses to believe he is capable of burning them deep if they stack the box. Vick can do that. Cassel can't.

I'm also counting on Vick's maturity and acceptance of his role now. Plus, I think Ben respects Vick, and it always helps if the #1 and #2 QBs establish a good working relationship and ease at communicating. If Vick sees something from the sidelines and points it out to Ben, I believe Ben will hear it better from a QB he respects. Ben's relationship with Batch was always a plus, and he likes having a #2 that he can speak to.

[HollywoodSteel]

The steelers was a awful team at this time(The steelers had start a 0-4 start in 2013 and they had finish the 2012 season with a 2-5 record....)


The Steelers definitely deserved to lose that game, but really that season was when I really questioned Tomlin's coaching ability. We started 0-4 for more than one reason, but the most glaring part to me was that all of us dumb fans knew that he was going into the season without a capable LT. How did Tomlin not know? He had an entire offseason and preseason to prepare for that.

By the time we face the Vikings, we actually looked like a football team capable of playing well, and we had every advantage in that game. It was a "home" game for the Vikings, but outdoors in England should have been an advantage for us. Cassel was stepping in from the bench, so that also should have been an advantage for us. Tomlin refused to bring the team to England early enough to adjust...

That game should have been the turning point to establish that we were a playoff capable team. And the Vikings were NOT an above average team. The memory of Tomlin's failures in that season really make me ill. I know it's not all on him, and I never wanted him fired, but I do believe that he could have put us in better positions to win a lot more than he did.

When it comes to real strategy and game planning, I think Tomlin is at the mercy of his coordinators. I think he'll be in good hands (I hope) with Haley, now that he and Ben seem to be in sync, but Butler is the big question mark. He has a very athletic defense with raw talent that needs a great deal of coaching and game planning to translate into quality football play. I guess it's not fair to put it all on Butler without a Troy (in his prime) or a Farrior and Smith and Hampton to bring it all together for him, but this is his chance to take raw clay and do something with it. I think a great defensive coach could take this bunch of athletes and mold them into a quality defense. I really have no idea what Butler can do with them. I can't put too much on the preseason, but it was not a reassuring sign. If Butler can't get them to play as a gelled unit fairly soon, then I don't think we can make the playoffs with our tough schedule. The offense will win us between 5 and 7 games on their own, but to expect them to win 10 to 12 without a cable defense is unrealistic. Ben always has a bad game or half here and there, and that means a loss without a defense helping you out. Also, a defense that spends too much time on the field is vulnerable to injuries (and we are not deep defensively) plus that time spent takes away drives from the offense, who need every scoring opportunity possible.

[Edman]

Steelers just set a home attendance record Sunday, and Vick played in the game no less.

So much for that.