Why is finding TEs like pulling teeth?

[TeeTee]

Yea know, I sit here and watch these preseason games, and it appears every team has an abundance of TEs who can run and catch.

And these guys are mostly low draft picks.

Why is it that the Steelers can never seem to find ANY decent TEs unless they use a first round pick. It's not like they don't try.

It's seems like every year we try to find a decent TE in the draft, but we keep coming up empty.

We have Miller, who won't be around much longer, and then nothing. Oh wait, Spaeth is super tall so that makes him good. Oh wait, no it doesn't. He has the hands of Ike Taylor.

And then we have a collection of slow white guys who everyone always thinks is going to be a player, but they never turn out to be anything.

The latest to over-value is Jesse James. Yes, and made one nice grab so far, but he's screwed up royally like 5-6 times, dropping TD passes, fumbling, blowing it in ST coverage.

We may be the masters of finding WRs later but we sure don't know what we are doing when evaluating TE talent.

Does Haley even like using TEs? I see Miller on a lot of rush blocking plays.

I know Ben loves Miller as a security blanket.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Spaeth is super tall so that makes him good. Oh wait, no it doesn't. He has the hands of Ike Taylor.


he's a waste of Spaeth...

[Psycho Ward 86]

1. Yea know, I sit here and watch these preseason games, and it appears every team has an abundance of TEs who can run and catch.

And these guys are mostly low draft picks.

Why is it that the Steelers can never seem to find ANY decent TEs unless they use a first round pick. It's not like they don't try.

2.It's seems like every year we try to find a decent TE in the draft, but we keep coming up empty.

We have Miller, who won't be around much longer, and then nothing. 3.Oh wait, Spaeth is super tall so that makes him good. Oh wait, no it doesn't. He has the hands of Ike Taylor.

And then we have a collection of slow white guys who everyone always thinks is going to be a player, but they never turn out to be anything.

4.The latest to over-value is Jesse James. Yes, and made one nice grab so far, but he's screwed up royally like 5-6 times, dropping TD passes, fumbling, blowing it in ST coverage.

We may be the masters of finding WRs later but we sure don't know what we are doing when evaluating TE talent.

5.Does Haley even like using TEs? I see Miller on a lot of rush blocking plays.

I know Ben loves Miller as a security blanket.

1. are you going to at least drop some facts on this or are we supposed to assume you're correct on a very questionable statement

2. in the past 10 drafts, we have drafted a total of 8 tight ends. 1 in the 1st round, 1 in the 3rd round, 2 in the 5th round, 1 in the 6th round, 3 in the 7th round.
As it stands:
-Heath Miller (1st) is a home run,
-Matt Spaeth (3rd) is a shit receiver but one of the very best blocking TE's in the league alongside Heath
-Charles Davis (5th) did nothing and Jesse James (5th) is TBD
-Matt Kranchick (6th) did nothing
-David Paulson (7th) did nothing, David Johnson (7th) was a very good H-back for us, Rob Blanchflower (7th) is still TBD

Sounds like a fair job of drafting to me...And if H-backs count, then Will Johnson has been a great H-back for us, and he's undrafted

3. He's one of the highest rated blocking tight ends in the league. Not ideal for a 3rd round pick, but decent.

4. Ah yes. Let's make a knee jerk reaction about a tight end in a thread about knee jerk reactions about our ability to find tight ends. He's a 5th round pick with 3 preseason games under his belt. Seriously?

5. Lol, you must not have been here for, let's just say "the guy who is infamous for underutilizing tight ends and running backs as receivers." Also, this may come as a shock to you but Heath is still, oh i dont know, one of the very best in the league at blocking and we happen to have one of the best RB's on the team

[steelreserve]

I just don't think we've been trying very hard since we have Miller.

Plus there are not too many high picks to go around since we use every last one of them on linebackers and linemen (14 of 18 #1-2 picks since Tomlin took over). That doesn't leave a lot of room for everything else.

So we follow the same tried-and-true strategy that worked so well with DBs and NTs - don't do anything to address the position for a decade, and hope you get a lucky break with the occasional what-the-hell pick in the low rounds. Then don't get any lucky breaks and be screwed. Then keep drafting linebackers.

[SteelerFanInStl]

As was said, most of these guys were late round picks so I'm not surprised that they haven't worked out.

The difference between the Steelers and most of the rest of the NFL is that we need our TEs to block. These other TEs can run and catch but can't block worth shit.

[GBMelBlount]

he's a waste of Spaeth...

Spoken like someone is missing Teef!!!!!

LOL!

[hawaiiansteeler]

Spoken like someone is missing Teef!!!!!

LOL!

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0810/intimidating.athletes/images/lambert.jpg

[TeeTee]

1. are you going to at least drop some facts on this or are we supposed to assume you're correct on a very questionable statement

It looks like you are about to make my case for me.


2. in the past 10 drafts, we have drafted a total of 8 tight ends. 1 in the 1st round, 1 in the 3rd round, 2 in the 5th round, 1 in the 6th round, 3 in the 7th round.
As it stands:
-Heath Miller (1st) is a home run,
-Matt Spaeth (3rd) is a shit receiver but one of the very best blocking TE's in the league alongside Heath
-Charles Davis (5th) did nothing and Jesse James (5th) is TBD
-Matt Kranchick (6th) did nothing
-David Paulson (7th) did nothing, David Johnson (7th) was a very good H-back for us, Rob Blanchflower (7th) is still TBD


Yup, a TE pick in almost every draft, and all that has panned out is the 1st rounder. The above proves my case. Only 1 player is any good, and we had to use a 1st round on him.


Sounds like a fair job of drafting to me...And if H-backs count, then Will Johnson has been a great H-back for us, and he's undrafted

Too bad he is clearly a FB. This discussion in on TEs, not FBs.


3. He's one of the highest rated blocking tight ends in the league. Not ideal for a 3rd round pick, but decent.

You need more out of a TE than blocking, if not, just use an OT.


4. Ah yes. Let's make a knee jerk reaction about a tight end in a thread about knee jerk reactions about our ability to find tight ends. He's a 5th round pick with 3 preseason games under his belt. Seriously?

Look at the track record. You want to bet me $ on how well JJ works out? Want to put $ on Branchflower ever becoming a big contributor? Look at the history. It clearly paints a picture of FAIL on virtually every TE pick not from the first round.


5. Lol, you must not have been here for, let's just say "the guy who is infamous for underutilizing tight ends and running backs as receivers." Also, this may come as a shock to you but Heath is still, oh i dont know, one of the very best in the league at blocking and we happen to have one of the best RB's on the team

Having TEs primarily as only blockers is antiquated and defunct. In today's NFL you better have at least one TE who can catch the ball, if not 2 or 3. We have one, who will only be around for a few more seasons, top. In all your combative rhetoric, all you seemed to do is prove my point for me. Thank you. I appreciate the help. You definitely get an "assist" for the data you provided. I repeat my assertion: Other than for our first round pick at TE, we find no one worth a damn with our TE picks. The evidence is clear. From the looks of our results, maybe they should not even draft TE and just pour over undrafted free agents instead.

[polamalubeast]

The best offense in the NFL last year(GB) had not very good TE

[TeeTee]

As was said, most of these guys were late round picks so I'm not surprised that they haven't worked out.

The difference between the Steelers and most of the rest of the NFL is that we need our TEs to block. These other TEs can run and catch but can't block worth shit.

I know we assume the above, but does that make it true. You mean Gronk never puts a block on someone? Kyle Rudolph? Fasano? Pitta? Bennett?

[teegre]

he's a waste of Spaeth...

:applaudit:

[TeeTee]

The best offense in the NFL last year(GB) had not very good TE

Of course there is always more than 1 way to skin a cat. but most teams have 2 TEs who can catch these days. We have one.

[Mojouw]

Of course there is always more than 1 way to skin a cat. but most teams have 2 TEs who can catch these days. We have one.

Really? Take a look http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchartpos/TE

I count the Colts, Ravens, Jags, Titans, Chargers, Eagles, Vikings, and Rams as having more than one established "pass catching" TE on the roster. I have no idea what their base offensive personnel packages are - so we can't really discuss starters, formations, etc. So 8 out of how many again? Oh yeah. 32. So a quarter of the league.

Just because the Pats popularized the personnel package a few years back and then everyone compulsively tried to copy it - doesn't mean it actually happened. Most teams failed at finding 2 TE's and despite the media's obsession with it - have mostly moved on.

[hawaiiansteeler]

The difference between the Steelers and most of the rest of the NFL is that we need our TEs to block. These other TEs can run and catch but can't block worth shit.

that's why we gotta have Spaeth :wink02:

[TeeTee]

Really? Take a look http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchartpos/TE

I count the Colts, Ravens, Jags, Titans, Chargers, Eagles, Vikings, and Rams as having more than one established "pass catching" TE on the roster. I have no idea what their base offensive personnel packages are - so we can't really discuss starters, formations, etc. So 8 out of how many again? Oh yeah. 32. So a quarter of the league.

Just because the Pats popularized the personnel package a few years back and then everyone compulsively tried to copy it - doesn't mean it actually happened. Most teams failed at finding 2 TE's and despite the media's obsession with it - have mostly moved on.

Ok, not "most" but it certainly was trending. I think Cinci had two for a bit, too. My point isn't really to sell having two pass catching TEs; it was merely to illustrate that other than Miller, we miss on every TE we draft.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I know we assume the above, but does that make it true. You mean Gronk never puts a block on someone? Kyle Rudolph? Fasano? Pitta? Bennett?

Were those guys late round picks? No, they weren't.

We've had other, more urgent needs lately in the draft to invest a high pick in a TE. I can see us using a 3rd or later pick next year to try to find Heath's eventual replacement.

[TeeTee]

Were those guys late round picks? No, they weren't.

We've had other, more urgent needs lately in the draft to invest a high pick in a TE. I can see us using a 3rd or later pick next year to try to find Heath's eventual replacement.

I know. I stated right up front that ALL of these TEs other than Miller were not early picks. I also said it seems other teams find pretty good ones, but in all of those TE picks we take, we never seem to find a gem. My observation was based on noticing TEs running all over the field in preseason, making huge chunks of yards, who were not high picks. I just figured we were bound to hit on one, albeit even late, that panned out. I also agree it hasn't been a high priority and I am fine with that. You'd think Spaeth would have produced more, but all he is good for is getting in the way with his big body and little else. Again, not stating we should have used higher picks on them, as you say, almost every position was a higher priority. Just surprised none of the TE picks other than 1st rounder panned out.

[ALLD]

What if Jarvis Jones converted to TE?

[Mojouw]

I know. I stated right up front that ALL of these TEs other than Miller were not early picks. I also said it seems other teams find pretty good ones, but in all of those TE picks we take, we never seem to find a gem. My observation was based on noticing TEs running all over the field in preseason, making huge chunks of yards, who were not high picks. I just figured we were bound to hit on one, albeit even late, that panned out. I also agree it hasn't been a high priority and I am fine with that. You'd think Spaeth would have produced more, but all he is good for is getting in the way with his big body and little else. Again, not stating we should have used higher picks on them, as you say, almost every position was a higher priority. Just surprised none of the TE picks other than 1st rounder panned out.

Which non high pick TEs were those again?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=1936&year_max=2015&type=&round_min=1&round_max=30&slot_min=1&slot_max=500&league_id=&team_id=&pos=TE&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all

Almost anyone on that list worth being jealous of as anything more than roster depth was drafted in the 4th round or higher. We can moan about the Steelers uninspiring TE depth all night. We can even talk about how they annually flush a 7th round pick down the toilet on some lumbering stone handed nobody that invariably gets billed as "baby Gronk" and then fails to make the practice squad. But we should at least do our bitching in the basis of reality.

There are not a fleet of low round TEs running amok across NFL practice fields and preseason games that somehow the Steelers have failed to cash in on. At best there are some interesting physical specimens that have to learn to block, play in-line (not this move all around crap that qualifies as a TE in some wacky spread 'em out offense that worked in Outer Nowhere State), and run some semblance of route tree aside from "run down the seam and look for the ball".

[86WARD]

What if Jarvis Jones converted to TE?

He still wouldn't care...

[Psycho Ward 86]

It looks like you are about to make my case for me.



Yup, a TE pick in almost every draft, and all that has panned out is the 1st rounder. The above proves my case. Only 1 player is any good, and we had to use a 1st round on him.



Too bad he is clearly a FB. This discussion in on TEs, not FBs.



You need more out of a TE than blocking, if not, just use an OT.



Look at the track record. You want to bet me $ on how well JJ works out? Want to put $ on Branchflower ever becoming a big contributor? Look at the history. It clearly paints a picture of FAIL on virtually every TE pick not from the first round.



Having TEs primarily as only blockers is antiquated and defunct. In today's NFL you better have at least one TE who can catch the ball, if not 2 or 3. We have one, who will only be around for a few more seasons, top. In all your combative rhetoric, all you seemed to do is prove my point for me. Thank you. I appreciate the help. You definitely get an "assist" for the data you provided. I repeat my assertion: Other than for our first round pick at TE, we find no one worth a damn with our TE picks. The evidence is clear. From the looks of our results, maybe they should not even draft TE and just pour over undrafted free agents instead.

So we have established here that you think:

A tight end that is only good at blocking, even if he is one of the best in the league at it, is crap

Fullback and H-back are the same thing

Blocking tight ends are so defunct of purpose that an OT is the obvious alternative. Because lets not take into account like mobility or anything...

Smh...I DID look at the track record. I literally painted it out for you. Again, you havent provided miniscule details like oh you know, research or facts or common sense probability. You act like we burn all of these early round picks and have nothing to show for it. You dont seem to give any shit about draft position at all. You must be sorely disappointed that all of our draft picks dont make the team year in and year out. Heath Miller is a home run pick . Matt Spaeth is an ok pick as a 9th year man who has carved out a niche as one of the best blocking TE's in the league. I think you severely underestimate how good he is. I guarantee that if you leaf through Steelers Depot, Pro Football Focus, etc. there will be plenty of game tape and article reading on this subject.

As far as your dismissal of everyone else such as David Johnson, who was drafted in the 7th round by the way. The fact that he is a good H-back is in itself an over achievement of most 7th rounders. Newsflash. 7th rounders are 7th rounders for a reason. If they dont have any semblance of an NFL career, its all but expected. They dont hit enough to be considered a "bad" pick.

No, i have no interest in betting money over the internet with a stranger. Particularly not someone who said he would come back to this board in 10 years to collect a bet against some random forum member that Antonio Brown wont be better than Jerry Rice.

I hate to drop more facts on you, but we dont have tight ENDS primarily as only blockers on this team. That title belongs to one man and one man only, Matt Spaeth. Everyone else is either Heath or a tight end getting looks for their potential. Blanchflower is a 7th round pick with a year under his belt that he spent injured. What do you expect from him exactly? In addition, hopefully its not a hard pill for you to swallow that our 3rd string tight end hasnt done anything after 3 preseason games :lol:.

Let me repeat that just so you have another chance to break out of the chicken little routine. This is a FIFTH ROUND PICK who has experienced THREE PRESEASON GAMES and is playing behind one of the BEST all-around tight ends as well as one of the BEST blocking tight ends in the league.

- - - Updated - - -

fuck it. someone needs to post it.

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/380745/sky-is-falling-300x225.jpg

[B&GFever]

it is not rocket science , but you have to do more than take an obligatory swing at getting one to land a good one most times , when Heath is gone we may take that swing at the fences in a more meaningful round ( not that good players do not come from later rounds its just a bigger crap shoot )

I am not concerned about " getting one " when one is needed ..

WR is a bit easier every College team starts 2 or more every game .. TEs are not always even starters in the college ranks , not every team utilizes them often so the player pool is vastly reduced and to get a good one you most times have to select them prior to day 3 and we normally do not go that route and have done so only once since drafting Miller ( Spaeth )

[86WARD]

I'm just thankful Blanchflower and the Gronkowski comparisons are gone...that was a pretty big joke...

[Steeldude]

What if Jarvis Jones converted to TE?

A CB would probably jam him at the line.

[86WARD]

A CB would probably jam him at the line.

Easily. I was thinking more of a DE knocking him down while trying to get out to the route.