If you could draft over [Archive]

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JoeyPorter55

08-22-2015, 07:12 PM

Who would you take Round 1 in the 2015 draft? Would you stay with Dupree? I wouldn't. I wanted Landon Collins bad. I think secondary is our biggest weakness and I would have addressed that before another OLB I fear flops like Jarvis

lipps83

08-22-2015, 08:55 PM

I was in the corner market and since all the good prospects were gone by our pick I would have grabbed Collins as well.

Dupree was good value at the pick. I didn't know much about him coming out, he appeared to be hit or miss prospect. I just don't think going with another OLB so soon after the Jones debacle was a good move. Would have went with the defensive backfield.

steelreserve

08-22-2015, 09:34 PM

Knowing that Golson was going to be injured and Dupree probably not ready to make an impact? I probably would've gone with Collins as the best DB available in the first ... if I was sticking with the 3-4 defense, I would've tried to make a move for Eddie Goldman or Jordan Phillips in the second, since they were close to where we picked, or if that didn't work, Carl Davis in the third when he would've been available straight-up.

Our other picks went about as well as could be expected; only thing I'd do differently is use our 6th-round pick on La'el Collins. I still cannot believe he was able to throw that line of bullshit past all 32 teams.

BigNastyDefense

08-23-2015, 08:36 AM

I still think that Bud Dupree was likely the best player available at where we picked.

I think he was taken for two reasons:

1. Even if JJ shows that he can play in this league this year, we don't have anyone else to play that other OLB spot in the future. This is likely Harrison's last year, and they want to limit his snaps if they can.

2. If JJ doesn't show anything this year, there's a chance he's not here after next year if he doesn't get cut in camp next season. We would need someone to possibly man one of those two OLB spots and Dupree can be that man.

Collins was a good prospect, but I don't think that he fit the mold that the Steelers were looking for in a DB in this past season's draft. Mike Mitchell plays a lot of the same way as Collins, and he has probably better ball skills. I think a healthy Mike Mitchell can have a big impact on this defense.

All the CB's I wanted in the first round were gone. There was nobody worth taking for a CB there IMO.

So in the end, I think Dupree was the right pick. I hope that JJ has a good season and that Dupree ends up being a monster and we have the two of them terrorizing quarterbacks for the next decade or so together.

SteelerFanInStl

08-23-2015, 08:45 AM

At this point in time, I wouldn't go away from Dupree either. We definitely need help at OLB and none of the DBs that were available at our pick are enticing to me.

BigNastyDefense

08-23-2015, 09:12 AM

hawaiiansteeler

08-23-2015, 02:51 PM

Bud Dupree has a sack and would have had another except it was nullified by Cam Thomas lining up offsides...

86WARD

08-23-2015, 03:55 PM

I would have drafted a Center...too soon?

st33lersguy

08-23-2015, 04:19 PM

Dupree looked pretty darn good today

CaSteel

08-23-2015, 04:36 PM

Secondary,secondary,secondary.If Rodgers had more snaps for Green Bay more people would agree. Then again we drafted a 5-8 165lb CB in the 2nd round that will.......nevermind

zulater

08-23-2015, 08:03 PM

Bud Dupree has a sack and would have had another except it was nullified by Cam Thomas lining up offsides...

"If he wasn't a first round pick he would be cut already." Oh snap. Guess that doesn't apply anymore.

teegre

08-24-2015, 10:42 AM

Too early to give up on Dupree. He was always going to be a project (he had limited experience at OLB).

Gun un to my head... if I had to re-draft...

I would have traded away the two 5s, two 6s, and the 7th round picks in 2014, in order to move up in the 2015 draft, and draft Cam Erving.

steelreserve

08-24-2015, 11:46 AM

At this point in time, I wouldn't go away from Dupree either. We definitely need help at OLB and none of the DBs that were available at our pick are enticing to me.

It's one thing to ask this question after three full seasons have passed. But before the rookie's season has even started...doesn't make much sense.

Right now, IMO, every rookie could be a boom or a bust.

I wouldn't go away from Dupree because I think he's a bust, so much as I never thought the need for OLB help was anywhere near as urgent as others did. The defensive line is responsible for the success of the pass rushers in a 3-4, not the other way around. If you want to improve the pass rush, address nose tackle - and by "address" I don't mean use a what-the-hell pick once every five years on a late-round project guy who happens to be 350 pounds. Yes, our DEs are coming into their own, but you need to be good at all three positions. Until then, you can toss as many #1 picks as you want at OLB and the results will be minimal. And you CANNOT fake it by having two good linemen and one mediocre one. Maybe you could barely fake it if the mediocre one was an end, but even then I wouldn't want to.

Also, if we insisted on OLB, I'm not even sure Dupree was the best one on the board, and said so at the time. Shane Ray went with the very next pick, and a lot of people had him as a top-10 talent. Yeah, he got busted for weed, which probably 95% of the league smokes.

lipps83

08-24-2015, 01:48 PM

Also, if we insisted on OLB, I'm not even sure Dupree was the best one on the board, and said so at the time. Shane Ray went with the very next pick, and a lot of people had him as a top-10 talent. Yeah, he got busted for weed, which probably 95% of the league smokes.

This and this and this.

There were better options at OLB. Ray and Gregory the first to come to mind. Dupree was hyped because he was labeled a 'freak'. Freaks don't normally do well in the NFL. The only person I recall that was labeled a 'freak' and had a bunch of success was Jevon Kearse. Mike Mamula and Broderick Buntley are two 'freaks' that didn't amount to a hill of beans.

The same goes for Shazier. I love Shazier and I hope he excels, but there is no way if I am in charge do I pass up Mosley for Shazier. None whatsoever. Mosley is a football player through and through. Shazier is an athlete playing football.

In the game of football there is a huge difference. I prefer football players on this team, not specimens.

hawaiiansteeler

08-24-2015, 02:04 PM

Secondary,secondary,secondary.If Rodgers had more snaps for Green Bay more people would agree. Then again we drafted a 5-8 165lb CB in the 2nd round that will.......nevermind

could have gone secondary in Round 1 and then drafted OLB Randy Gregory in Round 2 instead of Golson...

On down night, Randy Gregory brings Cowboys good thoughts

by Todd Archer, ESPN Staff Writer

http://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2015/0823/ap_386701727752_r3612_1296x518_5-2.jpg&h=402&scale=crop&w=1006&location=origin

SANTA CLARA, Calif. -- The Dallas Cowboys thought they were getting a steal when they were able to grab defensive end Randy Gregory with the 60th overall pick. So far, so good.

Gregory picked up his second sack in as many preseason games, dropping Colin Kaepernick for a 14-yard loss in the first quarter. Like his sack against the San Diego Chargers in the preseason opener, Gregory had some help from his friends. Defensive tackles Ken Bishop and Davon Coleman forced Kaepernick into Gregory’s arms for the sack.

Later Gregory drew two holding penalties on San Francisco offensive linemen who were not prepared for his strength and quickness.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas-cowboys/post/_/id/4744473/on-down-night-randy-gregory-brings-cowboys-good-thoughts

steelcityboyz

08-24-2015, 03:49 PM

Bud Dupree is gonna be just fine.. Give the guy a chance to play a few games before condemning him. :crazy:

lipps83

08-24-2015, 05:59 PM

Bud Dupree is gonna be just fine.. Give the guy a chance to play a few games before condemning him. :crazy:

I don't think anyone is condemning him, I think most just don't want to wait for him to 'get' it. He might be a super star in 4 years but the offense is not going to be tops in 4 years to bookend a great defense. Roethlisberger only has so many years left to go before he is out of the game. The offense is built for a championship now. The defense is no where close.

The window for Big Ben and another championship is closing fast in football years. The defense does not have time for project players. Eric Reid replaces Jarvis Jones. Mosely replaces Shazier. Those two right there probably get this defense into the top 10 if the rest of the defense is as it is right now. Instead all of the safeties and defensive backs are question marks as is Shazier. Shazier looks like he might be able to ball (might being key word, Mosley can), but right now aside from Harrison the OLB's are question marks and Harrison is 37 and a part time player.

Ben does not have that time to wait on projects. Can we please just draft guys that are ready to play now?

SteelerFanInStl

08-24-2015, 06:14 PM

I don't think anyone is condemning him, I think most just don't want to wait for him to 'get' it. He might be a super star in 4 years but the offense is not going to be tops in 4 years to bookend a great defense. Roethlisberger only has so many years left to go before he is out of the game. The offense is built for a championship now. The defense is no where close.

The window for Big Ben and another championship is closing fast in football years. The defense does not have time for project players. Eric Reid replaces Jarvis Jones. Mosely replaces Shazier. Those two right there probably get this defense into the top 10 if the rest of the defense is as it is right now. Instead all of the safeties and defensive backs are question marks as is Shazier. Shazier looks like he might be able to ball (might being key word, Mosley can), but right now aside from Harrison the OLB's are question marks and Harrison is 37 and a part time player.

Ben does not have that time to wait on projects. Can we please just draft guys that are ready to play now?

I wanted Mosley also but I'm not willing to say at this point that he's better than Shazier. Mosley had a great rookie season but let's give Shazier a chance to show what he can do now that he's healthy.

As far as your previous post goes, Ray and Gregory are both too light for how we use our OLBers. They're going to have problems trying to set the edge against the run. I didn't watch Gregory much in college but I saw every game from Ray. He's a great pass rusher but just OK against the run and didn't drop back into coverage much at Mizzou.

Right now both of those guys are situational pass rushers. Nothing more. Dupree has the physical tools but is definitely more raw. To me, he has more upside. He was doing a decent job of setting the edge yesterday and was able to get some pressure also.

Give all of these guys a chance to play a couple of years and then we'll take a look at them and see who was the better pick.

lipps83

08-24-2015, 06:53 PM

I agree that Shazier may have the ability to be better than Mosley. Sample size is too small. I also think Dupree might turn out to be a great player and I certainly hope so. He looked much better yesterday as opposed to the previous two.

I just think had they gone with Reid and Mosley the defense would be in a much better position right now and would be a good compliment to the offense right now. Fewer question marks and a better idea of what you have at the moment. Right now all 3 of the last 1st rounders are virtual unknowns (Jones has a few flashes here and there). There would only be one (Dupree) had they gone with Reid and Mosley.

Mojouw

08-24-2015, 08:04 PM

hawaiiansteeler

08-25-2015, 12:13 PM

I remember plenty of posters who were upset that we drafted Bell over Lacy.

that turned out pretty well, I would say...

86WARD

08-25-2015, 01:15 PM

I remember plenty of posters who were upset that we drafted Bell over Lacy.

that turned out pretty well, I would say...

Lacy is pretty damn good. It think Bell has him at the moment, but it's not a runaway race...

JoeyPorter55

08-25-2015, 01:21 PM

Shazier hits like a LB and runs like a safety.

Yeah I think Timmons and Shazier are going to make some Pro Bowls together

hawaiiansteeler

08-25-2015, 02:39 PM

Lacy is pretty damn good. It think Bell has him at the moment, but it's not a runaway race...

not taking anything away from Lacy at all, but Le'Veon Bell turned out to be a pretty darn good pick.

just like I believe that Ryan Shazier will also turn out to be a special player and quiet the crowd who is still pissed off we didn't select CJ Mosley...

SteelerFanInStl

08-25-2015, 04:24 PM

I remember plenty of posters who were upset that we drafted Bell over Lacy.

that turned out pretty well, I would say...

I was one that wanted Lacy but I didn't know a lot about Bell. Last year Bell showed me why the Steelers drafted him instead of Lacy. Lacy's pretty damn good but Bell is so much more.

Hopefully Shazier will do the same this year and show me why we took him over Mosley. I have faith that he can do it.

teegre

08-25-2015, 05:32 PM

Lacy is pretty damn good. It think Bell has him at the moment, but it's not a runaway race...

5-0 and I were on another board at the time. When the Steelers passed on Lacy (and drafted Bell), there were a few posters who went ape shit. You'd have sworn that Colbert had drafted a chair. Literally, a chair.

"WHAT THE FUCK, COLBERT!?! WHO DAFUQ IS BELL??? HE SUCKS!!!"

Lacy's phenomenal rookie season didn't help matters.

"COLBERT SUCKS!!! WE COULDA HAD LACY!!!"

Then... 2014 came... and those posters all vanished.

hawaiiansteeler

08-25-2015, 05:40 PM

5-0 and I were on another board at the time. When the Steelers passed on Lacy (and drafted Bell), there were a few posters who went ape shit. You'd have sworn that Colbert had drafted a chair. Literally, a chair.

"WHAT THE FUCK, COLBERT!?! WHO DAFUQ IS BELL??? HE SUCKS!!!"

Lacy's phenomenal rookie season didn't help matters.

"COLBERT SUCKS!!! WE COULDA HAD LACY!!!"

Then... 2014 came... and those posters all vanished.

that sums it up pretty well.

my favorite quote from one poster was, "why the hell would you draft Bell that high, he would have been available in the 3rd or 4th round"...

teegre

08-25-2015, 05:47 PM

that sums it up pretty well.

my favorite quote from one poster was, "why the hell would you draft Bell that high, he would have been available in the 3rd or 4th round"...

Indeed.

What I remember most was the awesome "Eddie Lacy" posts that would start whenever that topic was mentioned.

Eddie Lacy's tears cure cancer. Alas, Eddie Lacy never cries. :rofl:

teegre

08-25-2015, 05:57 PM

Shazier is going to be twice the player Mosley is. Mosley is a good to possible great interior run stuffing LB. We saw last season that he can be exposed in coverage (Bell ate him alive). Shazier hits like a LB and runs like a safety.

Get aboard the hype train! Shazier is going to make Steelers fans forget all about Mosley.

When Shazier was drafted, I mentioned (on SF) that it reminded me of 2003.

The Steelers didn't get Ed Reed in 2002. And, Ed Reed was an immediate star. Meanwhile, Troy Polamalu struggled as a rookie.... and the ENTIRE 2003 season, people kept lusting for Ed Reed.

I kept telling people that Troy will be better. Nope... hatred, hatred, hatred.

Simply, Ed Reed is one of my favorite non-Steelers. So, I respect him. But, Troy could have done what Ed Reed did, if Troy played the centerfielder role. Whereas, no one (not even Ed Reed) could have done the things that Troy did.

SUMMATION:
Mosley is better now; Shazier will be better for the next decade.

Mojouw

08-25-2015, 06:04 PM

When Shazier was drafted, I mentioned (on SF) that it reminded me of 2003.

The Steelers didn't get Ed Reed in 2002. And, Ed Reed was an immediate star. Meanwhile, Troy Polamalu struggled as a rookie.... and the ENTIRE 2003 season, people kept lusting for Ed Reed.

I kept telling people that Troy will be better. Nope... hatred, hatred, hatred.

Simply, Ed Reed is one of my favorite non-Steelers. So, I respect him. But, Troy could have done what Ed Reed did, if Troy played the centerfielder role. Whereas, no one (not even Ed Reed) could have done the things that Troy did.

SUMMATION:
Mosley is better now; Shazier will be better for the next decade.

Exactly. I almost went down this road with the Randy Gregory vs Dupree stuff. If the can teach Dupree to football - then you have an athlete that moves like Gregory does and isn't outweighed by 120+ pounds.

Always draft the better athlete (unless he is mentally incompetent - HI, Fred Gibson - didn't see you there) and trust that your coaching staff can get them ready. Then you have a career long star - not just some rookie flash in the pan.

86WARD

08-25-2015, 09:49 PM